‘The terrorists can’t be Muslims’

Published: October 7, 2013
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The writer is the Chairperson of the Department of History, Forman Christian College and tweets at @BangashYK

The writer is the Chairperson of the Department of History, Forman Christian College and tweets at @BangashYK

Being a very inquisitive people, Pakistanis have always wondered who these ‘terrorists’ really are. While the answer might be self-evident to many, most Pakistanis are still unsure about it. Almost inevitably, this question arises when I discuss a terrorist attack in my classes, and the students, for once, come with rather creative options.

When asked, a number of my students usually claim that these terrorists cannot be Muslims. When asked why, they argue that ‘Muslims cannot kill Muslims’. Lest this article become a history lecture, it should suffice to note that this is hardly the first time Muslims have killed Muslims in a large number. There have been numerous incidents of Muslims killing Muslims and even in our own history, the Ghorids killed the Ghaznavids, the Mughals killed the Pathans, the Mughals killed one another and various Muslim princes fought against one another — most notably, the Nizam of Hyderabad repeatedly fought against Tipu Sultan. An overwhelming majority of these incidents took place where there was absolutely no non-Muslim interference and it was simply warfare for power, lust, etc. Therefore, Muslims have killed Muslims in the past and there is no reason why this phenomenon should not be present now.

Related to this denial that the terrorists cannot be Muslims is the assumption that surely they must be ‘someone else’. The ‘tattooed terrorist’ is usually the prime evidence, since a Muslim would never get a tattoo. However bizarre finding a tattoo on the body of a terrorist might be, the thought that this tattoo might predate the person’s terrorist indoctrination, or the fact that in Uzbekistan (from where the terrorists might have come), such tattoos are fairly common, rarely crosses the sceptic’s mind. The fact that security personnel have found pornography and male potency drugs — also against the teachings of religion — would further strengthen the claim of them not being Muslim — until, of course, one self-examines.

Undoubtedly, citizens of other countries, and people from other religions, can and do carry out attacks against Pakistan, but assuming that ‘all’ terrorist attacks in Pakistan are carried out by non-Muslims is ludicrous, in the least. So, obviously, Indians, Americans and Israelis feature prominently as the culprits, and soon Martians might even make an appearance in the minds of these sceptics.

More significant, however, is what claiming that ‘they are not Muslim’ implies. When Pakistanis say that the terrorists are ‘not Muslim’, they are doing exactly what the terrorists are doing — deciding what is right and wrong in a religion and marginalising dissent. So, for a liberal Pakistani, the Taliban are not Muslim and for the Taliban, the liberal Pakistani is not a Muslim — what difference is there between these two approaches? Of course, those who criticise the Taliban take a more holistic view of religion and point out its peaceful elements, yet, completely rejecting those who do not agree with this version as ‘Muslim’ is harmful. The Taliban, and other such groups, have a particular view of religion. It might not be the best view, but it is still a Muslim view and has some public support. Unless we accept that they too are Muslims, we cannot sincerely argue with them on the finer points and convince them to change their ways. Completely rejecting such an ideology as something alien to religion is making its opposition and eradication difficult, I believe. This ‘owning’ of the problem of interpretation is the first step towards stemming this ideology.

So, who are these terrorists then? Here, I do not want to posit that all Muslims are terrorists, but that we must accept that some Muslims are terrorists, just like some Christians are terrorists, some Hindus are terrorists, some Jews are terrorists, and so on. Finding fantastic excuses and ignoring the issue will not make it go away; acceptance and engagement with the idea will.

Ultimately perhaps, we need to also look at ourselves when we think about this question. Do our ways of thinking, behaviour, attitudes and actions exhibit us as extremists? A day spent in observing our surroundings might give us some answers.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 8th, 2013.

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Reader Comments (93)

  • Curious
    Oct 7, 2013 - 11:14PM

    Dear author…since the origin of Islam 1400 years ago, the LARGEST EVER slaughter of Muslims was carried out by a Muslim army in 1971. You are a very learned scholar, why skip this obvious example…just happened 40 yrs ago… Why going back 300 years or 1000 years?

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  • BlackJack
    Oct 7, 2013 - 11:27PM

    The author seems to have missed the point. When some adherents to the religion have the power to declare others “non-adherents” and persecute them, then they can indeed continue to believe that terrorists are not muslims; and on the other side, the so-called terrorists believe that they kill only non-muslims in strict accordance to scripture, so everything is hunky-dory. And here, to obfuscate the issue, the author attempts to bring in Christian and Hindu terrorists when the problem cannot be compared with other religions at all; the last time that any Hindu or Christian publicly claimed any act of violence to be in the cause of his/ her religion escapes me. The Hindu terrorists (say the Naxalites in Central India) or militant groups in the North East of India (comprised largely of Hindus or Christians depending on the state) do not christen themselves as holy soldiers or claim that they want Hindu or Christian law to replace the constitution. They couldn’t care less if their identity was Hindu or Christian or Klingon.
    @ET – pls allow.

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  • sh(india)
    Oct 7, 2013 - 11:28PM

    “Hindus are terrorists” nice joke.

    How many mumbai attacks have been done in pakistan by hindus?
    How many hindus have been caught in muslim countries around the world who have killed the local people?
    How many hindus have been caught in pakistan for terrorism?

    If u say hindus who have killed muslims in india as terrorists you are wrong. They cannot be classified as terrorists. They can only be called extremists . Terrorists migrate to other countries and kill the local people. Muslims have been caught many times in this regard in various countries around the world.

    Terrorists can be called “terrorists” when people from more than two religions are killed at a time which did not happen in india.

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  • sh(india)
    Oct 7, 2013 - 11:28PM

    “Hindus are terrorists” nice joke.

    How many mumbai attacks have been done in pakistan by hindus? How many hindus have been caught in muslim countries around the world who have killed the local people? How many hindus have been caught in pakistan for terrorism?

    If u say hindus who have killed muslims in india as terrorists you are wrong. They cannot be classified as terrorists. They can only be called extremists . Terrorists migrate to other countries and kill the local people. Muslims have been caught many times in this regard in various countries around the world.

    Terrorists can be called “terrorists” when people from more than two religions are killed at a time which did not happen in india.

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  • Oct 7, 2013 - 11:29PM

    Bravo – you write: This ‘owning’ of the problem of interpretation is the first step towards stemming this ideology. Really the heart of the issue for everyone.

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  • LaLakiMKaa
    Oct 7, 2013 - 11:30PM

    Not all muslims are terrorist but the problem is there is nothing moderate in Islam…the way we kill animals…Halala……that is slowly slowly..which causes more pain to animals……..
    The majority of europeon countries today muslims that are granted citizenships demand for shariah…….in london people are getting converts dues to lights of pakistani citizens…european countries hate muslims more than any other part……Japanese dont grant them visa…russia chechenya….china…turkistan..turkey..kurdistan……..canada is facing problem……..india is in trouble…burma is burning,.sri-lanka is burning………..philippines and Indonesia are sitting on fire….what else i can say….it is for pakistanis to decide themselves……that was faisal shazad and afiya siidiqui born because of kashmir problem…….

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  • Oct 7, 2013 - 11:42PM

    So using the same logic / belief/ doctrine, roughly one hundred thousands Muslim populace is killed in Syria by Non Muslims. it speaks the brain washing of children by Mullah/ teachers/ parents/ society to believe that a Muslim will never kill another Muslim. Religion has made the child submissive and prohibits any question be asked.

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  • MSS
    Oct 7, 2013 - 11:59PM

    Mr Bangash, These fine points are only suitable for a debate on religion. In general, there are terrorists of all colours tones and hues. However, you must try and convince your rather naive students (whatever their educational achievements) that as a percentage of population, there are more Muslims who are radicalised and try to subvert societies in which they live, hate any ‘otherness’, seek power through terror and also are unbelievably incorrigible. There is only one way to deal with them.

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  • Babloo
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:20AM

    “..some Muslims are terrorists, just like some Christians are terrorists, some Hindus are terrorists, some Jews are terrorists, and so on. ..”

    That would be a lie unless it states “more Muslims are terrorists or violent militants.”

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  • Babloo
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:24AM

    A Muslim most likely to be a terrorist ? : No

    A terrorist, most likely to be a Muslim ? : True

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  • Hmm
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:31AM

    Yes , All muslims are not terrorists . but Most terrorists are Muslims . A terrorist can be a Hindu like Tamil Tigers or Christian or Muslims . But religion based extremism is very high among muslims .

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  • Iqbal
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:33AM

    The author is conveniently ignoring facts. UK government releases prison statistics on annual basis. Prison statistics between 2000 and 2011 can be viewed on page 20 of this report:
    http://www.gutsandgore.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Prison-Population-Statistics-UK.pdf
    and the latest returns are for 2012 on page 11 of this report:
    http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn04334.pdf‎
    Readers will note that Muslims in UK prisons have increased every year since 2000 when it was 6.6% and for 2012 it is 13.1% which has actually doubled although UK’s Muslim population is 4%. Hindus have remained almost constant at 0.4% of jail population in 2000 and 0.5% in 2012. Their population in UK is 1%.
    The author should perhaps highlight this because it originates from a country where neither are in majority and are equal in the eyes of the law. In case he is poor in Maths it means that Muslims are more than three times likely to commit a crime but Hindus are less then half likely to break the law.

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  • Arindom
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:38AM

    Don’t you have any sense of proportions? Just sweeping under the carpet real issues by making generalisations will make your problems worse. To come to the point – for every ‘Hindu’ or ‘Christian’ terrorist, there are perhaps 10,000 muslim terrorists. How many terrorist incidents ( random killing of civilians by shooting or bombs) have happened in the past 5 years – how many were cused by Muslim terrorists and how many by Hindu and Christian ones? Please do you own research – you’ll find almost all by one set only!

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  • Happens
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:42AM

    Muslims need to adopt scientific education and moral behaviour . Violence and extremism is not the solution as it will trap its very cause one day . 9/11 attack, London blast,Boston blast , Mumbai attack, Nairobi attack , Philippine attack , Moscow theater attack to name a very few apart from daily incidents of Islamic countries . Muslims are one of the largest community in world , but one of the poorest , less educated , highly religious and most easily influenced community in the world . World peace solely depends upon the role of Muslims.

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  • unbelievable
    Oct 8, 2013 - 1:20AM

    ‘Muslims cannot kill Muslims’

    The inference being that it’s OK to kill non Muslims.- something any non Muslim would find offensive (One of those elephants in the room that Muslims can’t see). The reality is that almost all terrorism these days is committed by Muslims and the vast majority of Muslim deaths are committed by Muslims.

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  • Arifq
    Oct 8, 2013 - 1:41AM

    Extremism brokers no dissent, easiest way to survive is to adapt.

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  • Californian Desi
    Oct 8, 2013 - 1:51AM

    Very well balanced article.

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  • sabi
    Oct 8, 2013 - 1:51AM

    They can be from any religion,for that matter Muslim, but they may not necessarily believe in life hereafter.Looking at their heinous crimes they are most probably not believer in life hereafter.Recommend

  • bangash
    Oct 8, 2013 - 2:02AM

    @Curious
    err no…the largest slaughter of Muslims was carried out by Halaku Khan when he sacked Baghdad.

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  • Mohammed Yusuf
    Oct 8, 2013 - 2:14AM

    Nice article, but the bottom line is : All Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims!

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  • Ali Tanoli
    Oct 8, 2013 - 3:05AM

    u might know others history too sir??

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  • Anjaan
    Oct 8, 2013 - 3:19AM

    Well, if you call the terrorists “not Muslims”, then what will you call the Madrasas where these terrorists were indoctrinated, and the Mullahs that brainwashed these Muslims into terrorism in the name of Islam ….. ????Recommend

  • Usman
    Oct 8, 2013 - 3:49AM

    Although diverging from topic, the comments from our Indian readers show clearly that where Pakistan may not have learned from history, Indians have completely mutiliated it to suit their shaky egos. Partition after all, was the best decision Muslims of India made in the last millenium. Now, after many crises, seld made and external, Pakitsanis should encrouage some introspect. And I completely fail to see how there is any room for Indian comment on this thread?

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  • Ali Tanoli
    Oct 8, 2013 - 3:58AM

    Others Reliegens killers are never called Terrorist ????

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  • Observer
    Oct 8, 2013 - 4:49AM

    @author,

    “Here, I do not want to posit that all Muslims are terrorists, but that we must accept that some Muslims are terrorists, just like some Christians are terrorists, some Hindus are terrorists, some Jews are terrorists, and so on.”

    Why the political correctness and an attempt to conflate Jihad with other faiths and thus unintentionally (?) offering an excuse for JihadismRecommend

  • Toba Alu
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:04AM

    @sabi: it has not occured to you that one does not need to believe in an afterlife to know that killing and murdering etc. is wrong. How sad. Fear is usually not a good advisor.

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  • Komal S
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:08AM

    @Usman:
    You Say ” Partition after all, was the best decision Muslims of India made in the last millenium”

    Are you sure about this claim. Please check with your Bengali brethens on this one. How about checking with Ahmedis and the Shias getting killed everyday in the name of religion. Also how did the partition help the minorities(non muslims) of this muslim nation. Finally more muslims are getting killed in Pakistan due to terrorism than in India, so please tell us what really this partition achieved for your muslim brethens.Recommend

  • csmann
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:21AM

    The real question is whether Muslim societies can come out of the negative thinking,and cycle of violence?

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  • Y.Rathod
    Oct 8, 2013 - 6:13AM

    @Usman:

    Whether you believe it or not or want to put your head in the sand like the ostrich or pretend to live in paradise or even say that the grapes are sour — that’s your choice, sir — but all Indians, including 99% of all Muslims in India,say that partition was the best thing that happened to them. We got rid of the unwanted elements, as posterity has shown us. Still, you can continue to live in your fantasy world and still believe that you have created for yourself the ‘land of the pure’.

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  • Kufristani
    Oct 8, 2013 - 6:18AM

    @Usman “And I completely fail to see how there is any room for Indian comment on this thread?”

    just looking at the population, there are 6 Indians for one pakistani in this planet….factor in the much (much) lower literacy rate amongst Pakistanis compared to Indians. The number of Indians who are available to comment on various blog sites is much higher….probably 20 to 1.

    Even most pakistanis who live in the West/ outside Pakistan are cabbies, or do jobs that don’t require education, they can’t read or write English well. There is nothing else going on.

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  • Mohammed Yusuf
    Oct 8, 2013 - 7:23AM

    @Usman:
    Do you honestly believe that Partition was the best thing that has happened to Muslims of India? Place your hand on your conscience and say it. There are more Muslims in India than Pakistan and they don’t kill each other. There are equally a same number in Bangladesh and they don’t blow each other.
    Just look around you, there are Muslims killing Muslims in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh, I forgot about Mali and Somalia.
    What does it all show? That there is a systemic fault within in Muslims or with their religio-political ideology.

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  • LaLakiMKaa
    Oct 8, 2013 - 7:56AM

    People of Indian thank Jinnah more than Gandhi and Nehru…It was Jinnah who saved India from becoming a shariah state…otherwise today half of Indian converts would have been living under shariah rule……Thankyou jimmah………I respect your vision for India that India should remain a secular place where everybody can go to temple,mosque,church and free to go anywhere…for this jinnah wanted the people who wouldbe detrimental to India to leave India….Jinnah zindabad…..

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  • Mahakaalchakra
    Oct 8, 2013 - 8:13AM

    It is true that terrorism has no religion.
    99% terrorists however have a religion.

    All Muslims may not be terrorists but 99% of them have the potential to become one.

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  • Sajida
    Oct 8, 2013 - 9:17AM

    Maybe these terrorists are instead mentally ill? Mental illness is a taboo subject;but when there is a culture of intermarriage it gets boosted. I would say not only the terrorists but their supporters are mentally ill. There too major culture of intermarriage.

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  • Varun
    Oct 8, 2013 - 9:26AM

    It is completely mind boggling that Pakistanis are continuing to catch their tales with these numbingly obvious questions. The level of discourse at the author’s class is a hint about why.

    Wherever has there been an effective eradication of terrorism (N. Ireland, Sri Lanka maybe?), the means may have varied, but the story line was all clear. No wonder observers are increasingly skeptical of any improvement. Come 2014, we should be prepared for fire-works all over the region.

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  • truthbetold
    Oct 8, 2013 - 10:35AM

    @LaLakiMKaa

    You have nailed it. Every Indian should remain grateful to Jinnah saab.

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  • naive
    Oct 8, 2013 - 11:20AM

    @Iqbal:
    “Readers will note that Muslims in UK prisons have increased every year since 2000 when it was 6.6% and for 2012 it is 13.1% which has actually doubled although UK’s Muslim population is 4%. Hindus have remained almost constant at 0.4% of jail population in 2000 and 0.5% in 2012. Their population in UK is 1%.”

    You seemed to have missed the whole point. Throughout history Muslims have known to have fought injustice and consequently faced oppression. Whereas Hindus have meekly accepted injustice as their fate and hence faced subjugation for over 1000 years. A disproportionately higher percentage of Muslims in prison is a clear indication of the extent of injustice in that society. An increasing percentage only shows that British society is becoming more and more unjust.

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  • Arpit Jain
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:38PM

    @naive: Mr Naive, can you point out what injustice TTP is fighting for in Pakistan killing thousands of innocent?

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  • Last Word
    Oct 8, 2013 - 12:44PM

    @Author
    Though a good write up, but you missed the plot quoting old historical events involving foreign invaders and rivalries amongst the Muslim rulers within a state, but all these quotes are quite irrelevant to the present day scenario in Pakistan. The case of Pakistan is a bit unique, and even unprecedented in the present day world since Muslims are killing their fellow country-men who are also Muslims living under the same roof and that too in a country which is a sovereign nation with democratic set up. ET please publish this being an important observation.

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  • stars
    Oct 8, 2013 - 1:14PM

    @naive- You seemed to have missed the whole point. Throughout history Muslims have known to have fought injustice and consequently faced oppression. Whereas Hindus have meekly accepted injustice as their fate and hence faced *subjugation for over 1000 years*.

    To prove your point you have atleast unknowingly accepted that muslims were oppressive, unjust and subjugated hindus for 1000 years.

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  • Oct 8, 2013 - 1:42PM

    @Usman: When you are unwilling to see any comments from indian ( western countries too ) criticizing the content/mindset or any other belief ( even if logically with facts/ evidences figures and sources) which hurts you and your belief it is the gene of intolerance which come out with efforts and mind to stop the comment altogether rather than to introspect. Intolerance to other’s views will not allow one to introspect, means to believe no mistake exists on your part and put the blame on others and relieved of the stress. This is not going to help the intolerant minds and eliminate the problems.

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  • naive
    Oct 8, 2013 - 4:14PM

    @stars:
    Don’t be so generous to give the entire credit to Muslims. Of the 1000 years 250 years belong to Europeans(Christians)

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  • Zafar
    Oct 8, 2013 - 4:22PM

    “So, for a liberal Pakistani, the Taliban are not Muslim”

    For liberals, Talibans are Muslims. I think you confused average Pakistani with liberals.

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  • naive
    Oct 8, 2013 - 4:29PM

    @Arpit Jain:
    Mr Jain, TTP believes sovereignty of God to be supreme. They see the man made laws subordinating the God given laws(Sharia) as a great injustice. Loss of lives irrespective of their numbers is just collateral damage in a fight for justice.

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  • Aaliyah
    Oct 8, 2013 - 4:46PM

    Is this even a debate?

    People may call me a liberal muslim or a good muslim – I may call myself just a muslim but what I will not do .. is call someone who mercilessly kills with randomly planted bombs in the middle of a market place – a muslim.

    I will not call him/her a muslim NOT because I am an authority on what is right or wrong in the religion, NOT because I am assuming he/she is from another religion BUT because I am offended when this mass murderer is using religion’s name to justify his evil acts. Because it is incomprehensible to me that any one remotely familiar with ANY religion can justify killing of unsuspecting, unarmed, people who are just going about trying to live their lives.

    What a waste of time and space this article is. I feel bad for the students of this man.

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  • Anand
    Oct 8, 2013 - 4:47PM

    @naive

    You write @Iqbal; “Throughout history Muslims have known to have fought injustice and consequently faced oppression”
    Before one buys into such self indulgent grandstanding, one might want to know what type of injustice and oppression the Muslims are fighting in Britain to secure for them maximum occupancy in British prisons. One might also want to know about their fight against injustice and oppression in their respective countries of origin. But even without answers to these questions I was prepared to accept your claim to this great Muslim tradition of fighting against injustice and oppression until I stumbled upon the next line;
    “Whereas Hindus have meekly accepted injustice as their fate and hence faced subjugation for over 1000 years.”
    Pray tell us, who inflicted injustice upon and subjugated these meek Hindus for over 1000 years? Are they by any chance the same people who you claim throughout history have fought against injustice and still continuing the fight in Britain?

    @stars

    @naive
    To prove your point you have atleast unknowingly accepted that muslims were oppressive, unjust and subjugated hindus for 1000 years.

    Very well observed. I guess he just got carried away while claiming the moral high ground in respect to the Hindus.

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  • Shahzad
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:00PM

    Are Pakistani Taliban the ‘Khawarij’ of today? | Wonders of Pakistan

    http://wondersofpakistan.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/are-pakistani-taliban-the-khawarij-of-today/

    Are Pakistani Taliban the ‘Khawarij’ of today?
    wondersofpakistan.wordpress.com
    The psycho-analysis of groups such as the Pakistani Taliban or cults shows the very maniac nature of such people, their sects, groups or lashkars, all a manifestation of what we see nowadays in the…

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  • Iqbal
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:22PM

    @naive:
    That’s the problem with us Muslims – it’s always someone else’s fault.
    If Muslims are oppressed in UK (in your words) then why live there? No one put a gun on their heads to be in the West. This is typical madrassa education.
    Look in a different angle, the Hindus are also doing much better in education, business etc in UK. In fact they are doing better then the whites as shown in this article:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/feb/20/race.immigrationpolicy
    This same article proves that Indian muslims are doing better then us Pakistani muslims. I have accepted that we have failed and the hole is now so deep that we are unlikely to come out of it. I am hoping that our grandchildren will not have to be taught that there was once a country called Pakistan which was created for Muslims.

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  • Milind
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:23PM

    Don’t know why ET has stopped publishing my responses…

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  • ModiFied
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:26PM

    @Author: “‘The terrorists can’t be Muslims’”

    However, most terrorist in the word are Muslims of one or the other shade and as per world opinion their epicenter is in Pakistan.

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  • amoghavarsha.ii
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:30PM

    @naive, “The bombing of the church in Peshawar is as per the requirements of Sharia.”
    this was told by TTP.
    “Loss of lives irrespective of their numbers is just collateral damage in a fight for justice.”
    this was told by YOU.
    do read the above a couple of times then answer.

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  • observer
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:33PM

    ‘The terrorists can’t be Muslims’

    Is the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia a Muslim?

    http://www.worthynews.com/12618-saudi-mufti-again-calls-for-destruction-of-all-churches-in-arabia

    If, Yes, then, the terrorists are Good Muslims too.

    In other words, if you can be a Good Muslim while killing non-Muslims, why can’t you be a Good Muslim while blowing up Muslims who are not good enough?

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  • SBK642
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:41PM

    @Y Rathod
    Partition was the best thing that happened to India from an Indian point of view. Today India has about 180 million Muslims in its total population of 1250 million people (about 14%). Had we been together, the equation would have been 360 million in a population of 1430 million (1250+180+180) or 25%! Just imagine what would have happened to us Indians!

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  • 1984
    Oct 8, 2013 - 5:56PM

    @naive:
    You seemed to have missed the whole point. Throughout history Muslims have known to have fought injustice and consequently faced oppression.

    Well,the muslim prisoners in UK are not political prisoners..They are inside because they committed crimes like robbery,rape,murder,extortion etc…….How is that fighting injustice???

    What exact justice are you talking about the grooming gangs which forced young girls to drink alcohol and have their way with them????

    If muslims feel that this is fighting injustice,then I think every human must fight for the “injustice”

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  • 1942
    Oct 8, 2013 - 6:46PM

    @Aliyah
    You said it!

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  • gp65
    Oct 8, 2013 - 7:16PM

    ETBLOGS1987

    @sabi: “They can be from any religion,for that matter Muslim, but they may not necessarily believe in life hereafter.Looking at their heinous crimes they are most probably not believer in life hereafter.”

    The description you provide maybe true about those terrorists who happen to be Chriistian, Hindu etc. After all they do not claim to be committing the crime in the name of their faith. The suicide bombers however have been brainwashed into believing that their actions are not crime but in service of Islam and when they die in this way they will get the 72 hoors. I do not mean to say that ISlam prescribes such acts. But the mullahs whom these young kids trust to interpret Islam for them are definitely drilling such ideas into their heads. So these people probably do believe very strongly in hereafter.

    As an aside, I do not know if you are aware but Hindus believe in rebirth – not after life. Buddhists and Jains are atheists and do not believe in afterlife.

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  • Oct 8, 2013 - 7:32PM

    The article touches on an important point that we need to honestly introspect on.

    Unfortunately, the author still keeps it rather general and vague and its probably constraint by article size.

    While most here are aware that I like to identify the specific religious sectarian political ideologies, mindsets, motives, practices and tactics, including current and historical religious references that could be used for and against extremist religious narrative, as a step to a solution by recognizing a problem that many other experts have already pointed out to, unfortunately it won’t be let through under this article’s moderators.

    So there’s really not much to engage on this ideological crisis topic, and not surprised that many Pakistanis have failed to ask basic questions, when it can’t even be openly discussed further here.

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  • R. Subramanian
    Oct 8, 2013 - 7:39PM

    Terrorist can’t be a Muslim but a Muslim can be a terrorist

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  • Mohammed Yusuf
    Oct 8, 2013 - 7:48PM

    @bigsaf:
    My comments too were blocked. Remember as Karl Marx has said : Religion is the opium of the masses”. ET if frightened of blasphemy laws and religious extremists – the mullahs. If you wear blinkers you won’t know what is there on both sides of your road.

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  • naive
    Oct 8, 2013 - 7:50PM

    @1984:
    “Well,the muslim prisoners in UK are not political prisoners..They are inside because they committed crimes like robbery,rape,murder,extortion etc…….How is that fighting injustice???”

    Do you have any facts & figures to support this claim. Do you even have a rational explanation as to how a particular religious group can be more prone to ordinary crimes compared to all other religious groups?. There can be NONE.

    Despite this, if what you say is true and if indeed there are more Muslims in UK prisons on account of ordinary crimes then the only possible explanation is ISLAMAPHOBIA. Is it so hard to guess?

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  • John McFarland Ireland
    Oct 8, 2013 - 7:58PM

    The author has a minuscule point that terrorist come in different colors & nations of origin. When the IRA the Irish terrorist had problems with England they did not recruit sympathizers from foreign countries they kept the fight local. They did not attack other religious minorities! They did not have blasphemy laws to torture people of other faiths. The terrorist situation is a mess created by the citizens of Pakistan who are so hateful of the WEST that now it has reached dangerous proportions. Till the citizens rise in one voice there is ZERO HOPE for the people of PAKISTAN the only people to blame are you all reading this!

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  • arshadfilms
    Oct 8, 2013 - 8:11PM

    What an excellent article. It is true. Pakistanis need to accept the fact that it is our own culture that is giving rise to terror and accommodating terror. We need to stop pointing fingers at others and look at ourselves and call out the ‘Taliban’ in our own families and stop this culture of intolerance.

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  • mind control
    Oct 8, 2013 - 8:41PM

    @naive:

    Do you have any facts & figures to support this claim. Do you even have a rational explanation as to how a particular religious group can be more prone to ordinary crimes compared to all other religious groups?. There can be NONE.

    Yes .Plenty of facts and figures too.Try this for starters.

    http://shariaunveiled.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/95-of-child-rape-and-molestation-convictions-in-the-uk-were-committed-by-muslims/

    And this too.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2013/06/2013629103618495485.html

    And a country that did not ‘render’ the Hook Armed Terrorist Abu Hamza and Babar Ahmad, without due process allegedly suffering from ISLAMOPHOBIA? That too when others were ‘rendering’ by the dozen?

    Nah, Nyet, No.

    Try other reasons.

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  • Arijit Sharma
    Oct 8, 2013 - 8:53PM

    Some Pakistanis can be very delusional about reality. I remember a lady calling into the Nusrat Javed show from New York ( after an explosive incident in a mosque ) and saying “Yeh Hindu aate haen aur maar ka chale jaate haen”. Thank fully she was corrected and told “bibi, yeah apne he log haen” – or something to that effect.

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  • Rex Minor
    Oct 8, 2013 - 9:01PM

    Although a foreigner myself I rate this author and intelletual of above average intelligence. I like his article, explanations given and fully appreciate his motives as well, but this time his taking the wrong end of the stick couple with the missing definitions of the terms he has used is very confusing and is reflected in comentries provided by the bloggers as well.

    Let me explain; the Talibans are not the ‘Terrorists’ per say, but in the opinion of many are the ‘RESISTANCE’ in the country against the military occupation of their own land. The term ‘MUSLIM’ is used for the individual or a group of individduals who PROMISE and I repeat PROMISE and COMMIT to observe the required tenets of the religion of Islam.

    This is not to say that he does since his muslimness can only be approved and confirmed by no one other than the God the almighty and his creator.

    Rex Minor

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  • Oct 8, 2013 - 9:07PM

    @Rathod

    You are absolutely true. Partition in 1947 is the best thing that has happened. We have really got rid of the unwanted elements. Imagine what would have happened if partition has not taken place? We should thank God and also thank Allah for the partition. Post partition the Muslims in India – including those in Kashmir – are living far more happily than their counterparts in Pakistan.

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  • Oct 8, 2013 - 9:14PM

    @LaLakMaa

    You are absolutely right. We must profusely thank Jinha than Nehru for the partition. If the partition had not happened, even the present Muslims of India would not be happy as the are.

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  • genesis
    Oct 8, 2013 - 9:41PM

    Muslims cannot kill Muslims.read Mughal history and you will notice it is matricide,patricide and fratricide to get on to the throne Takth or takath that was the law.

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  • Rex Minor
    Oct 8, 2013 - 10:32PM

    @John McFarland Ireland:

    Let me try and see if the ET moderator allows this reply.
    Like the author you are equaly confused with the definition of terms being used. The IRA struggle is nothing more than the catholics an the protestants rivalry which in the rest of Europe almost disappeared for ages. The IRA has been struggling to free themselves of the British colonisation of their land as well those citizens who want to remain in the union. What is happening in Pakistan is quite different in as much as that Pakistan military has been acting as a foreign occupation force and this has resulted in East Pakstan going inependent and will most likely be followed by the KPK and Baluchistan province; the matter becoing complicated by the Americans entering into Afghanistan in search for Sheikh Obama who was apparently living as a guest in the military garrison town of Pakistan!! COMPRENDO!!

    Rex Minor

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  • Rakib
    Oct 8, 2013 - 10:40PM

    @naive:
    @stars: (1) “Whereas Hindus have meekly accepted injustice as their fate and hence faced subjugation for over 1000 years.” (2)”To prove your point you have atleast unknowingly accepted that muslims were oppressive, unjust and subjugated hindus for 1000 years.”

    Folly of the first quote is compounded by the second. Muslims & Europeans ruled Muslims too & Muslims were no more oppressive than what Hindus were towards their own. Masses of both suffered. Muslims too lost to Afghans, Turks, Mughals,Iranis, British. The area which is now Pakistan did not produce a single Muslim hero of worth who could fight any invader from Taimur to Abdali through Nadir Shah but gave in quietly. “Pakistani” Punjab in its entire history produced only two genuine sons of the soil as heroes: Ranjit Singh & Bhagat Singh, neither a Muslim. Ancient Hindus of Punjab faced Greeks, Bactrians, Persians, Huns, & medieval Turks & Afghans. They lost but they fought. Daulat Khan, the Punjab Governor of Ibrahim Lodhi, who used to strut about with two swords hanging from his neck, meekly surrendered without a fight to the invading Mughal with his troops, ready to “wipe shoes with his eyelashes”! As against that Babur who fought Rana Sanga of Mewar could not conquer it despite defeat of Rana in 1529 & for next 90 years Mughals never succeeded at Mewar despite many campaigns. That was not a meek surrender! It took a platoon of dozen ill trained fellows for Company Clerk Robert Clive to make short work of army of Nawabs of Arcot & Vellore & that was the beginning till Plassey ended it. There is hardly anything for today’s Muslims to boast or Hindus to bemoan about. It is laughable to see chaps whacked by the Brits arguing about who is sleek & who meek.

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  • John McFarland Ireland
    Oct 8, 2013 - 11:23PM

    @Rex Minor- You should be patting yourself that the ET moderator allowed your dribble to be posted as you missed the main point pretending to give a biased history lesson on the conflict between Ireland and England and the Protestants & Catholics?
    @Rex Minor: “as a foreigner myself” you seem to have an intimate details of the workings of the Pakistan military you are probably a high paid consultant or an unsuccessful author of conspiracy workings know-it-all! The IRA did not outsource their war and eventually they did work it out as they finally figured out the tremendous loss of lives and obviously they forgave the British as the Queen recently visited Ireland.

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  • sabi
    Oct 9, 2013 - 12:24AM

    @gp65:
    The suicide bombers however have been brainwashed into believing that their actions are not crime but in service of Islam and when they die in this way they will get the 72 hoors. I do not mean to say that ISlam prescribes such acts.
    You are right of course an ordinary Muslim sure believes in life hereafter but that’s also true that this ordinary Muslim has a vague knowledge of religion which leaves a door open for someone hungry for wealth fame or power,to exploit such short comings of innocents.It’s the master mind who I believe has no faith in life hereafter even though born Muslim or else.
    And yes I do know that Hindu believe in rebirth and not after life as such.But I do believe, per my knowledge, early followers of Hindu religion,Rishis believed in one God and life after death.

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  • sabi
    Oct 9, 2013 - 12:32AM

    @gp65:
    The suicide bombers however have been brainwashed into believing that their actions are not crime but in service of Islam and when they die in this way they will get the 72 hoors. I do not mean to say that ISlam prescribes such acts.
    You are right of course an ordinary Muslim sure believes in life hereafter but that’s also true that this ordinary Muslim has a vague knowledge of religion which leaves a door open for someone hungry for wealth fame or power,to exploit such short comings of innocents.It’s the master mind who I believe has no faith in life hereafter even though born Muslim or else.
    And yes I do know that Hindu believe in rebirth and not after life as such.But I do believe, per my knowledge, early followers of Hindu religion,Rishis believed in one God and life after death.Recommend

  • Observer
    Oct 9, 2013 - 1:28AM

    @gp65:

    “The suicide bombers however have been brainwashed into believing that their actions are not crime but in service of Islam and when they die in this way they will get the 72 hoors. I do not mean to say that ISlam prescribes such acts.”

    The suicide bombers do indeed derive their inspiration from the scriptures. What makes you think the so-called radical mullahs and wahabis are making the wrong interpretation of scriptures? If so, this “wrong interpretation” has been going on for 1400 years!

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  • Rex Minor
    Oct 9, 2013 - 2:01AM

    @Aaliyah:
    Well said! You have noble expressions, but we are all born sinners; only God almighty is all knowing and is the judge on our action . The author is doing the right thing to raise the question of violence and such acts by the so called muslims in the history class, so that the students themselves work it out if the religion has any role in the actions of the military or the so called Talibans. Does it make any difference if a Pakistani muslim is wearing a khaki dress or those who are in plain clothing? Who has the authority to interpret the religious scriptures? Is it the State or the theologists scholars? Is the author aware that the elite Universities especially in the West were estabished as religious Madrassas which gave lessons in theology? Do the masses of people in Pakistan understand the arabic language, which was choosen by God the almighty one to convey his commandments?

    Violence and terrorsm existed in the world before the arrival of the scriptures and the appearance of the massengers, prophets of God. This was the beginning of the civilisation and admittedly the world has not got riid of the violence pest and Wars, not yet!!

    Those who are born with a living geist will not commit violence nor justify violence under any conditions! “Though shall not kill” is the commandment of God. This is written in the scriptures and for all times and this is what we must all know.

    Rex Minor

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  • 1984
    Oct 9, 2013 - 4:20AM

    @naive:
    Despite this, if what you say is true and if indeed there are more Muslims in UK prisons on account of ordinary crimes then the only possible explanation is ISLAMAPHOBIA. Is it so hard to guess?

    IF we were naive as your name suggests,maybe we would buy this theory but you should know muslims played this card for a long time and now noone believes it any more ….

    Also intoxicating and raping young girls is not an ordinary crime in any part of civilized world…
    There is no Islamophobia in that…..

    ISLAMOPHOBIA is a card used by overseas muslims to divert the reason for their backwardness….
    Muslims are the poorest ethnic group in UK…
    In France,the muslim populated areas are so crime ridden that govt issues warning not to go there….
    In Denmark,9% of muslims gobble up 40% of the Social Benefits
    In Canada,they are the poorest among immigrant population

    If you cannot compete among others,dont use your religion as a trump card…Its like a kid who couldnt study well says that the teacher purposefully failed him to hide his faults

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  • el chor
    Oct 9, 2013 - 5:14AM

    @Aaliyah:
    a reader above your comments writes

    @Arpit Jain:
    Mr Jain, TTP believes sovereignty of God to be supreme. They see the man made laws subordinating the God given laws(Sharia) as a great injustice. Loss of lives irrespective of their numbers is just collateral damage in a fight for justice.

    Blockquote

    here’s the answer to your comment from a fellow muslim.

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  • Sana Asghar Khan
    Oct 9, 2013 - 5:44AM

    While @1984 pulled out the depressing stats for Muslims in Europe the good news is that
    Muslim Americans tend to be highly educated, politically conscious and fluent in English. As a group, they share similar socio-economic characteristics with the general U.S. population in terms of education, income and employment: one-fourth has a bachelor’s degree or higher; one-fourth lives in households with incomes of $75,000 or more; they live in all neighborhoods some tend to live near each other specially in big cities, many have close friends with Indians at work and neighborhood activities the majority are employed and the myth that they are taxi drivers or own grocery shops and work at petrol stations is now material for late night comics and the younger generation are appearing in high finance, media and education centers around the country.

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  • ;-)chief
    Oct 9, 2013 - 6:26AM

    Terrorists are muslims but their terrorist activities are funded by non-muslims…..Recommend

  • Kufristani
    Oct 9, 2013 - 7:40AM

    @1984
    http://ekonometrics.blogspot.com/2012/05/why-indian-immigrants-earn-higher-than.html?m=1link text

    While Pakistan-born immigrants reported higher median household incomes than the native-born Americans, surprisingly 14% of the Pakistan-born immigrants were below the poverty line compared to only 9.4% of the native-born Americans.
    For instance, despite having similar South Asian heritage, Pakistan-born immigrants report a 2.4-times higher rate of poverty than their Indian counterparts. Furthermore, poverty among younger cohorts (18 years old or younger) is even worse amongst immigrants from Pakistan than from India.

    the above are from analysis by Dr Murtaza Haider, Reyerson Univ, Canada.
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  • BlackJack
    Oct 9, 2013 - 9:23AM

    @sabi:
    But I do believe, per my knowledge, early followers of Hindu religion,Rishis believed in one God and life after death.
    Rishis are not early followers of Hindu religion, they are merely wise men. If you are referring to the Vedic religion (I hope you do not imply that there was a Hindu religion before the Vedas), then there were many Gods mentioned, but one reality – and this is what we follow today as well, and what many seers spoke and wrote of – reading even Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Swami Vivekananda will tell you that nothing much has changed in that respect. Further, while there was indeed less focus on reincarnation during Vedic times (it is mentioned a couple of times in the Rig Veda, and became a more prominent element during Sramanic era), there was absolutely no mention of after life (or punishment/ reward outside the eternal cycle of birth and death) – the objective of life has always been to realize the truth and free oneself from illusion, and not to please a greater being.

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  • Amit
    Oct 9, 2013 - 12:38PM

    @naive:
    No wonder you call yourself naïve.

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  • Raman Sehgal
    Oct 9, 2013 - 12:58PM

    Dear Muslims,

    Steps for correction :

    The most important thing to know if there is a problem.
    Then be honest and identify the reason for the problem without letting emotions or belief come in way.
    Try to target those reasons to overcome the problem.

    All the best (I have written something on this – i will post it in next post – as I dont think ET will publish it).

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  • Haris
    Oct 9, 2013 - 4:44PM

    All muslims are terrorists ? .. .NO (Obviously)
    All terrorists are muslims ? ….. No, but they are all being portrayed as muslims. Why you can’t see the clear conspiracy against muslims. It is the fastest growing relegion in the world and the world leaders fear that. It is not very difficult to understand if you do some research and keep reading.

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  • Tony Singh
    Oct 9, 2013 - 5:28PM

    @naive:
    Or have converted to Islam as ur forefathers did!!

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  • Wizarat
    Oct 9, 2013 - 6:27PM

    @Curious:
    and Jamaat-e-Islami was one of the culprit working in cahoots with the Army

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  • Wizarat
    Oct 9, 2013 - 6:29PM

    @sh(india):
    How about a leading candidate for the Prime Minister’s candidacy, Mr. Modi?
    And other RSS party that India itself thinks as Terrorist.

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  • 1984
    Oct 9, 2013 - 7:24PM

    @Sana Asghar Khan:
    I do agree that Muslim Americans are better off compared to average Americans…

    As my American friend told me “USA is a soup while Europe is a salad”

    The immigrants who come to America are screened thoroughly before letting them in…So only the best come in….The rules are such a way that u have to blend in or perish….Unlike UK,you cannot have an islamic based school in USA

    Besides Europe has a weak immigration policy…Most of them come either through cargo ships or marrying the local British muslims (Same is the case for every other immigrants too)…The govt just ignores them thinking they will work in lower strata…They import their sharia habits when they arrive..

    Most importantly,it has been observed,muslims are known to create problems when they cross the 2% of the population…Its still less than 1% in USA…Lets wait for few more years…

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  • Rex Minor
    Oct 9, 2013 - 8:15PM

    @1984
    You have digitalised yourself but ET moderators have not? You seem to be indicating that you know more about so called muslims and most probably are the one to provide input to WIKIPEDIA as well. Let me simplify your learning of the article; the terrorists can’t be muslims which follows that muslims can’t be terrorists!! You do not agree. The terrorists usualy operate outside the apparatus of the State or the religion!! This is the answer the author Khan Bangash expected from his students!!

    Rex Minor :

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  • Iqbal
    Oct 9, 2013 - 9:25PM

    @Tony Singh:
    Or have converted to Islam as ur forefathers did!!
    Mine too. But if I were to say how then ET would not publish it because it would not be within “rules”.

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  • Farhan
    Oct 9, 2013 - 9:31PM

    similarly,

    Fornicator cannot be a Muslim
    Drunkard cannot be a Muslim
    Corrupt cannot be a Muslim
    Party boys/girls cannot be a Muslim

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  • Adolf Stalin
    Oct 9, 2013 - 10:14PM

    Terrorist?

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  • Aneela Zakaria
    Oct 9, 2013 - 10:46PM

    According to @Farhan some Pakistanis cannot be Muslims are there no fornicators in our midst, corruption is in every crevice of Pakistan, sharab is a social attitude that is penetrating our society, homosexuality is rampant as our men are supposed to abstain from sex before marriage but yet we blame the West for our sins?

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