ISLAMABAD: Indian forces fired across the de facto border in the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir early on Wednesday, killing three Pakistani soldiers, the Pakistani army said on Thursday.
It said Indian forces opened "unprovoked" fire across the so-called Line of Control (LoC) – which divides Kashmir between India and Pakistan – in Neelam valley.
"The soldiers were moving from one post to another when they came under fire. Three soldiers were killed," military spokesman Major Gen. Athar Abbas said.
Pakistani forces returned fire in retaliation and the incident was raised with local Indian commanders, he said.
A spokesman for the Indian army in Kashmir gave a different account.
"They opened fire first and we retaliated ... In the morning again they started firing mortars again and we retaliated and the exchange of fire continued," Lt. Col. J.S. Brar told Reuters.
The incident underlined the fragility of ties between the countries that have fought three wars since 1947.
There were frequent exchanges of fire between the two forces before the nuclear-armed neighbours agreed to a ceasefire across the dividing line there in 2003. They continue to exchange sporadic fire.
The latest incident is unlikely to have any impact on renewed efforts by the two countries to improve their ties.
India and Pakistan in February resumed a formal peace process broken off after the 2008 attack on Indian's financial capital of Mumbai blamed on Pakistan-based militants, which killed 166 people.
Meeting in the Indian capital of New Delhi in July, foreign ministers of the two countries hailed a new era in ties, and agreed to fight militancy and boost trade and travel.
COMMENTS (94)
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@ aziz . There are more muslims in India than Pakistan . The first grade Mohazir are with you . The second division of India as you wish will give you Kashmiri as second grade Mohazir . Better think about BALUCHISTAN and fnrget Kashmir .
@aziz awal: please watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMQ-pjol6UY
war is the extention ofb political aims.why don' India be good big brother.be sincere in trying to win over the hearts and minds of the Pakistanis.let go of Kashmir because majority of the population are muslims.why hold onto Kashmir?
About 3/4 area in Pakistan is flood affected and people desperatlý need help from their countrymen .The country is consentrating on kashmir . Karachi and Baluchistan is burning and may go out of hand ..., Forget Kashmir and save the rest ? mir and save the rest ?
@Alansaralhaq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFpB0PSnoz0&feature=related
Man is an highly evolved animal .Its a fact , The evidences are before us even then there are people in considerable number who will hesitate to accept Hanuman jee as their ancester . It hardly matters to me . The things matters to me is the blood shed being resulted by such delibrate ignorance being propagated by some religions .
Did the Pakistani and Indian soldiers go to different places after they died? Whast would they be thinking if they were reading these posts? Bekaar mein jaan gawain.
If I may recall that both countries agreed to observe ceasefire on LoC in 2003 which not only helped in reducing tension between the two countries but this agreement also saved many precious lives of military and civilians personnel on both sides, which were being lost in cross-fire and artillery bombardment. Though this agreement is holding on well till date but unfortunately the same is being violated on many occasions by Pakistan who still continues to send the jihadi elements across its border. During the month of August this year, 13 miltants were killed by the Indian security forces in Kupwara sector and also resulted in deaths of three Pak soldiers and one Indian Junior Commissioned officer.
Such incidents of untimely demise of military personnel on both sides is clearly avoidable if Pakistan decides to abondon this ill-concieved policy which is now hurting Pakistan more than India besides acting as an obstacle to normalcy between the two countries.
@Aadersh: And what would china do to us? We remember our history and learn from it. And you? Putting your foot on the same axe again and again.
@Aadersh.
Yes, we lose Aadersh. We are not fair looking, blue eyed, well built (beef eating), martial race like YOU Pakistanis are. That's why we lose and fail in every aspect of life.
I wonder, what kind of future you build for your children!!!
@Aadersh: Why can't you rely on yourself? Why do you need China now? China has officially issued a statement that it has no intention of messing up with India. Remember you are dealing with a secular nation, whose vice president is a muslim and the chairman of the ruling party and one of the most powerful women in the world is a catholic. Anyone in their right mind would think twice about hurting us. And then China is answerable to all people with whom it does business. Chinese have to look after their business interests in Europe and America as well. So don't get too excited!! It's not worth it. It's always better to come up in life on your own than relying upon somebody. Learn from your 2 neighbours please.
Not a good sign for Pakistan.
Shame India Shame you people compete with a seven times smaller nation & still you lose HAH!! don't know what China will do to you people...Oh I forgot they already did it by conquering whole of your state in 1962...Get a drift..
Is this news? This is routine and sometimes Pakistani side will die , sometimes Indian. For those who think that India is trying to provoke Pakistan, man you ought to be a great successor to His Awesomeness Hamid Zaid.
Don't the Indian and the Paki dead go the same place??
@Amjad: Re Indian hand in Balochistan, please speak only if you have an iota of proof, which you dont have, simply because India is not involved in Balochistan , had there been any proof, Pakistan would have have tom tommed it
So dont bring Balochistan in this argument,
@ Someone - I appreciate where you're coming from. If you had read my other comments you would see that I by no means support a disintegration of Pakistan or unification of all Pashtun areas with Afghanistan.
As for the "millions" who laid down their lives, there's a difference between those killed during Partition as opposed to those who fought for Independence from the British. Most of those who fought for the creation of Pakistan decided to remain in India.
I agree we need better education, infrastructure, etc. I want to see Pakistan give up terrorism totally, renounced fundamentalism, and return to being an open, prosperous society. My family grew up in a Peshawar where many religions and ethnicities co-existed side-by-side. I know we cannot return to that but at least we can stop hating each other and stop hating Afghans and Indians.
@Abdul Quddus: After reading lot of hot gas from both sides finally a sane comment .
The TRUTH is that humans died, humans killed humans, miracle of life was obliterated, the humanity suffered and insanity rules the world.
According to Dr. Sigmund Freud´s analysis, the human being is a born criminal, a polymorphic perverse being. His assertions are doubtlessly testified from the numerous comments in this forum.
If we take out the time factor from the human evolution and there is no past, present or future, then we ARE a barbarous, blood thirsty predator of this planet in total Perfection. We experience a collective intoxication in killing and then mourning for the deads.
@Asad: Well said brother . In these border clashes there are no saints on either side . ET it should not be difficult to report the dead on both sides there was 1 JCO on the Indian side and 3 Jawans on the Pakistani side a waste of young precious lives
@Khan Saadat Afghanyar: So according to you Pakistan's prespective is neutral prespective. Where do you live? On Mars.? Come down to earth
@ET I penned some facts in my comments which were not offensive either but you did'nt publish them. Disappointed, but never mind. Regards. R S Johar
Yes, Pashtuns were just angry over some border line while millions were laying down their lives on the other side just to get to this country. I question your loyalty. Here's some advice: Stop being angry at everything, If you guys focus more on education, eliminating poverty, creating jobs, putting food on the table etc. you would have less time to think about Ak-47s, heroin culture and artificial 'Pashtunistan' ideas and your economic situation would undoubtedly be much better than what it is today.
@ET....stop censoring comments. You have some of the most backward filtering systems compared to other reputable newspapers. There is something called 'freedom of speech', y'know?
@Tony Singh..."If someone still believes in fairytales. no one can help them."
Nothing seems to be fairy tale-ish in Ode's comment. its all real. Have you ever heard of the word "denial"? Or does it not exist in the holier-than-thou Indian vocabulary?
That's not a nice thing on India's part. When Pakistan retaliates, we Indians start crying before the international community.
@Ode: If someone still believes in fairytales. no one can help them.
For the sake of our future our country, we desperately need peace ! Stop this immature macho war talk. This childishness has been going on for 64 years. Our economy cannot take any more. The whole world knows it. Our people need education. We need roads. We need railways. Indians are not the only people who are guilty. Be honest, we have done our best to provoke the Indians. Lets move forward, and make peace and create a prosperous subcontinents. This is what Pakistanis and Indians on the ground want.
Oh, India, how dare you
Narayana said, "I and the rest of the world is more likely to believe the Indian version, given Pakistan’s credibility!!!!"
Indian media has a well known policy, "Itna jhoot bolo ke logon ko jhoot sach lagnay lage."
@My name is Khan: "If you remembered history my friend, you would know that Pashtuns were very angry about Partition and the Durand Line."
Yes, Pashtuns were just angry over some border line while millions were laying down their lives on the other side just to get to this country. I question your loyalty. Here's some advice: Stop being angry at everything, If you guys focus more on education, eliminating poverty, creating jobs, putting food on the table etc. you would have less time to think about Ak-47s, heroin culture and artificial 'Pashtunistan' ideas and your economic situation would undoubtedly be much better than what it is today.
@Khan Saadat Afghanyar If your army is so brave and capable then why don't you liberate Kashmir. All kashmiri are asking for help,but you don't have courage to help them as we liberate bengalis in 1971 war. Our army are waiting for you ,just come and take your kashmir from us.
"Irregular Mujahid battalion" ? Is this Pak or Libyan army ? lol
@Khan: "Its not PoK .. the Indian side is occupied only".
So if it is not Pak Occupied Kashmir and truly Azad KAshmit, what were Pakistani soldiers doing there? Does n't the picture show a Pakistani soldier with the 'Azad Kashmir' flag in the background?
@Khan: "Its not PoK .. the Indian side is occupied only"
So why is it that the Prme Minister of 'Azad' Kashmir is from PPP and the parties that fight election are Pakistani parties like MQM, PML-N, PPP?
@Khan Saadat Afghanyar: 1965 was inconclusive but India had won more territory than Pak and there was greater damage to Pak forces. If you check any neutral site it will tell you that. You have been incorrectly told that Oak won 1965. You have also been incorrectly told that India initiated 1965 - because Pak initiated that on Bhutto's advice. India won 1971 and Kargill. You sould be aware that Nawaz Sharif went to US and declared unilateral ceasefire. If that is not Indian victory what is it.
@wajiha: "Indian army? The army of back fighters,if you have courage then come in front.Back fighting, back pulling and threatening is the strategy of ind forces not ours. we have an army of courageous and brave soldiers, remember SEP1965!!!!!!!!!! "
We DO remember 1965. Unlike what you have been taught in history Pakistan did start but Indians very successfully defended and took the batttle to Pak territory.
Both Pak and India had got into some territory of the other country but India had much more Pak terrirory than viceversa. In the ceasefire at Tashkent, both countries decided to returned and return to status quo.
You have been told that Pakistan won which is uintrue. So why then did they agree to such a treaty?
We also remember 1971 where 90000 Pak soldiers surrendered
We also remember Kargill where Pak soldiers pretended to be local Kashmiri freedom fighters and attacked.
@Khan: My dear Khan Bhai Sahib, let's wait for another 10-15 years & time will show if Srinagar & Kashmir Valley remains integral part of India or Balochistan emerges as a new nation. Statecraft is a delicate subject best not handled by Army Generals & their cronies. But I pray for the departed soldiers whether Indian or Pakistani, may their soul rest in peace.
@Khan Saadat Afghanyar: Are you related to Zaid Hamid ?
@Bangash: my 2nd favorite after zaid hamid
@Khan Saadat Afghanyar: :D
"Major General Athar Abbas told Geo News in Islamabad [ Images ] that three Pakistani soldiers were killed in the gun battle. He claimed that Indian forces had fired across the border "unprovoked". He identified the soldiers as belonging to irregular Mujahid battalion."
News on redif.com
@Khan Saadat Afghanyar -
"By the way, you better prepare yourself for a full fledged invasion from Pakistan due to the morass you have just created. What your border forces did right now is not any less indicative of “DUFFERS.”
Please don't attack us. We know that you have a strong army and a strong nation who can afford a war but we are in no state to fight a war. We are already fighting poor infrastructure, poverty and illiteracy and that fight will not be over anytime soon. Added to that the bureaucratic mis-administration and corruption has hardly left any breathing space for us. We have to build schools and feed our masses. A war will slowdown our economy and hinder that process. We can't go to war. Please spare us.
@A.Rehman
I no longer trust anything that comes out of ISPR. For too long, our regulars have been infiltrating into Kashmir. That does not mean I trust the Indian side of the story but I certainly do not take anything our Armed Forces do at face value.
@ Khan Saadat Afghanyar - I doubt you are really Pashtun. If you were, you would read Pakthoon's comment and understand where he or she is coming from. The Pakistan Army does not care about what happens in K-P and FATA. Our brothers in FATA are left to rot while the Taliban destroys their livelihoods all so Pakistan can have "strategic depth".
If you remembered history my friend, you would know that Pashtuns were very angry about Partition and the Durand Line. Pakistan brilliantly used the Kashmir issue as a way to distract angry Pashtuns from the division of their native lands between two countries.
I do not question national boundaries. What is done is done. But unless Pakistan wants everyone questioning the Durand Line, it should not make a big fuss and stop supporting infiltrations across the LoC.
@ Ajmad - I am Pakistani too. I am a proud Pakistani but your comment is just about showing pride instead of intelligence. We have yet to find one shred of proof that India supports terrorists against Pakistan. Even the US WikiLeaks cables at best show that India may have supported Baloch rebels back in the 1970s but has not done anything since then.
@Paras Vikmani: Its not PoK .. the Indian side is occupied only .. If it was PoK you would have seen demos just like Srinagar .. that obviously you cannot see in Indian media .. but are available on Youtube ... thousand and thousand of people asking for freedom in those demos and holding Pakistani flags ... You don't see that in Muzaffarabad or any where else in Pakistan.. even in Balochistan its just a small group .. you will not see any demos like the ones in Indian Kashmir. And before you guys start saying that its because your government allow them let not forget if when a government kills 80,000 native people they will do everything in their power to suppress such demos. Now to answer you question ... We don't have half a million soldiers in Azad Kashmir roaming in the streets ... In every country army is spread across the country in different cities .. we have always had them in many other dozens of cities including Rawalpindi, Lahore, Karachi, Nowshera, Sargodha and Peshawar etc to name a few.
Indians still feel big inferiority complex to Pakistanis and seek to drink their blood.
@Tony Singh.....just in case you forgot, 1965 was also the year when Pakistan Air Force thrashed a much larger Indian Air Force, and where Pakistan practically outperformed India in aerial battles. More Indian planes were downed as compared to Pakistan's.
I think you will be most fond of MM Alam who shot down five of your aircraft in one minute (although your Indian generals somehow try to make it four)
@naryana murthy: "Your army, in its ultimate freedom has fought 4 wars against India and lost all of them."
"Lost all of them"? My foot. What world are you living in? Looks like the history you learn comes from distortion in your educational curriculum. And I thought Indians always jeered at the thought of textbooks in Pakistan. Come out your bubble land and give me ONE source, from an international perspective, that says you won ANY war apart from 1971? Answer = You did not win any war against Pakistan. 1947 and 1965 were not tactically victories. Jeez, and I thought Indians studied history from a neutral perspective.
The only war that India has officially succeeded in was the 1971 and that was due to the bengalis themselves who wanted to seperate. Stop making up your own invented facts.
By the way, you better prepare yourself for a full fledged invasion from Pakistan due to the morass you have just created. What your border forces did right now is not any less indicative of "DUFFERS."
@wajiha:
The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.
Bet you will still say that that's all CIA/RAW/Mossad conspiracy, but, hey! it's your choice.
Well done India.
Historically Pakistan fires at India before pushing infiltrators into kashmir. I guess it was case even this time.
"The sources said the ceasefire violations from Pakistani side were apparently aimed at giving cover to militants trying to infiltrate into Kashmir ahead of snowfall which will close all passes along the rugged terrain of LoC.
@pakhtoon: You mean to say Pashtuns and Baluch as well as all other Pakistanis are routinely killed by Afghan agents and their Indian masters who try to cross the Afghan border to kill innocent Pakistanis. India is the real sponsor of state terrorism when they continue to persecute Kashmiris and ignore a United Nations mandated referendum so the people can choose their own future.
@wajiha: 1965? oh yes we remember that. That was the time Indians returned the captured Haji Pir bypass. Isn't it. Ah yes Indians remember 1971 and Kargil too.
I am sick and tired of seeing these provocations from both sides. Just yesterday i read the news about the two armies sharing sweets for Eid and now this. Both sides are to blame for these incidents.
@Pakhtoon....no Pakhtuns are killed. The criminal Talibans are being killed and as Pakhtuns, we should support the army
I am not sure about this infiltration. It is possible but India has killed and maimed thousands of Kashmiri Muslims so one cannot be sure whether they killed Pakistanis on the border or the Kashmiris fighting for self determination. In any case, border issues are very subjective and one cannot trust army versions.
Pakistan says India should withdraw forces from Kashmir. Then what are Pakistan forces doing in PoK? In the picture in the background isn't that PoK flag?
What about all that weaponry that our Army spent billions on? Are they any good for defence? Seems everyone from US and Taliban to Indians can kick our backsides. Its time to send army Generals for military re-training away from their banking and land development concerns.
Indian army? The army of back fighters,if you have courage then come in front.Back fighting, back pulling and threatening is the strategy of ind forces not ours. we have an army of courageous and brave soldiers, remember SEP1965!!!!!!!!!!
*Where’s the UN, US & the EU???* We should act what the International Law says for killing the innocent Pak soldiers or our Pak Army should react according to situation/law. My deepest condolence for the martyred soldiers, & prayers/support for the families of martyred soldiers.
Unfortunate incident. Hope this does not hamper the peace process between the two countries. Indians are good people, and Pakistanis living overseas like myself have some overseas indians as best friends. Unfortunately our armies are always at loggerheads with each other. We should try to learn a lesson from the European Union or the Canada US close relationship. The day our armies and political leaders get more mature and accomodating towards each other, we will become a strong bloc.
I have visited neelum valley azad kashmir.Indians can see us easily living and moving,While pakistanis can see indians,People in that area told us that there was no fire fight or morter fight after 2003.Crossing of border is easy just 1 river b/w india and pakistan in some areas.
How dare ET publish such biased news against India? What will SAFMA say? Will SAFMA still keep whining about pak army's obsession with exagerrating security threats? You guys are proving Meher Bokhari to be correct, our dear neighbours pose no threat to our security. So please dont publish such news and make SAFMA look bad. People need to remember that they killed ONLY 3 soldiers, but atleast they generously gift us with 100's of amazing Bollywood dance songs every year which enable us to have amazing mehendi and mayo parties. All India Haters = Arab lovers -> Right SAFMA?
@Borderguard: Dream on!Does'nt cost anything.
@Sharik Hussain: May as well retire the martyred concept when it comes to India and Pakistan. It's just two groups of kids playing the "its mine" "no ,it's mine" "i'm telling!" games. You can try to make their deaths mean something by forcing pretty words on it, but there really is no meaning where it counts.
Indian version reads...
Pak violates ceasefire; infiltration bid foiled
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/army-foils-infiltration-bid-jco-killed/20110901.htm
I and the rest of the world is more likely to believe the Indian version, given Pakistan's credibility!!!!
It was Pakistan that first provoked India and see the result! 3 Pakistani soldiers are dead.
Died or martyred?
for SAFNA plz read SAFMA.
I feel like asking NS to review contents of his last speech from SAFNA platform.
Ask? how long we been on this "asking"? They shoot whenever they want and put their issue direct to UN even a Pakistani shouts on them? what is this? There should be an answer to that and I think Pak army has missed that chance. It was the best option to shut their mouth the time they dare to shoot.
Pak Army has a Mujahid Battalion?
We Pashtuns are ready to defend our motherland. Bring India accountable to this else India must get ready and face the consequences.
@ET..stop censoring comments.
lol! Eid Mubarak!!!
They must have been terrorists.....prepare for war.
This diversionary gag by Pakistan might fool the local citizens but it hardly made news anywhere else. After the immense pressure on Karachi issue and the explosive interviews of Mirza, Pakistan needed to divert the people's minds. What is better than bringing up the old bogeyman India ?? Works every single time.
this is paki sided news, wanna see all sides of the incident,
Indian troops noticed movement of heavily-armed militants near the LoC on Wednesday and challenged them. The gunmen opened fire, resulting in critical injuries to Naib Subedar Gurdayal Singh, who later succumbed to injuries, they said.
The troops fired back at the gunmen forcing them to flee back to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, said officials, adding that search operations were going on in the area.
More than a dozen infiltration bids have been foiled along the LoC in Kupwara district during the month of August.
Check this guys....what happend actually is not known there...
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Army-foils-infiltration-bid-JCO-killed-in-J-K/Article1-740389.aspx
Few times India done like this. Many times Pakistan done like this. This is one of "Few".
What about Many?
Normally that "Many" is not published in Pakistan News and this "Few" is not published in Indian News.
All are Political games played in both sides.
your infiltrators killed one officer a few days back, and today it was pay back time. why worry?
:( on day before Eid
Let the troll begins !!!