Time to forget Kashmir

Published: July 4, 2011

The writer is a historian at Keble College, University of Oxford

A few days ago, Indian Prime Minster Dr Manmohan Singh suggested that Pakistan should leave the Kashmir issue alone and focus on its own internal problems. This idea led to the usual protests in Pakistan. If we excise our pathological fear and dislike of anything Indian (at least officially), does this statement still seem outrageous?

Let me quote another politician. In a recent interview, Maulana Fazlur Rehman remarked on Kashmir: “Obviously, we are in favour of a political solution… Things have changed so much. Now the concept of wining Kashmir has taken a back seat to the urgency of saving Pakistan.” Does this comment sound better and sensible? Things have indeed changed a lot during the last 60 years and we need to take cognisance of the changed scenario and adjust accordingly.

Nearly 64 years ago, when Indian troops landed in Kashmir on October 27, 1947, Pakistan refused to accept the accession of Kashmir to India on grounds that the wishes of the people of the state had not been ascertained. This was certainly the rightful moral position. As a matter of fact, when India refused to accept the legal accession of Junagadh to Pakistan and occupied the state on November 9, 1947, Pakistan only resorted to indignant protests, as it knew that the vast majority of its Hindu population were eager to join India. Pakistan had obviously hoped that India would apply the same principle to Kashmir — something which both Nehru and Mountbatten promised to do.

However, our moral high ground is now leading us to political and economic suicide. It is a no-brainer that if Pakistan had not embarked on a costly confrontation with India over Kashmir, the military would not have been so strengthened as to take over the government four times. It is also no secret that if the conflict with India had not been present, we would have had no reason to spend over half of our budget on defence and that our country would have easily been a high middle-income country by now.

These historical reasons aside, now there are several more complicating factors. Pakistan is under a severe attack from terrorists almost every day, its economy is extremely shaky and its politics is corrupt, fractured and baseless. While accurate economic indicators are hard to obtain, it is clear that despite being practically a war zone since 1989, Indian Kashmir has managed a higher literacy, economic growth and per capita income rate than most of Pakistan. Thus, why would the Kashmiris want to join Pakistan now? What do we have to offer them any longer?

In 1947-8, Pakistan was a new country, full of ambition and striving to become a progressive homeland for the Muslims of South Asia. In that context, the Kashmiris naturally felt an affinity towards their Muslim brethren in Pakistan and wanted to join them. Since then, official Pakistan has time and again shown its contempt for diversity within the national polity and the East Pakistan, Baloch and anti-Pakhtunistan operations are a clear example of the state’s unwillingness to accept true provincial autonomy.

Therefore, unless we put our own house in order first, we should not harbour any grand ideas about attaining Indian Kashmir. It is ludicrous to hope to incorporate a large territory, with a different development trajectory over the last six decades, when parts of our own country are not under the government’s control, and when most people in Pakistan are worrying about its dire economic and security situation.

Moreover, if not for our sake, we should shelf our hawkish stance on Kashmir for the sake of the 140 million Indian Muslims. If the government is really concerned about the suffering Muslims of Kashmir, it should also care about the suffering of the millions of Muslims in India proper who are suffering (among other things) the suspicion being Muslim brings in a Hindu majority state due to the antagonistic attitude of Pakistan.

Kashmiris deserve their right of self-determination, but that should certainly not come at the cost of our own survival and not when all that we will be able to offer them is a failed state.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 5th, 2011.

on Twitter, become a fan on Facebook

Reader Comments (153)

  • Kasim, Lahore
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:01PM

    Dear Author,

    Well said. You will be appreciated by Indian Readers.

    Please expect comments on you (Ofcourse on me also) like Indian, Anti-Pakistani etc. However your views are matching the views of common educated people who are real well wisher of our country.

    Khuda Hafiz.Recommend

  • faraz
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:01PM

    Kashmir is much like Poland. Poland was divided among three powers i.e. Russia, Prussia later Germany and Austrio-Hungarian Empire. Austrio-Hungarian Empire disintegrated after WW1; Poland gained independence for 2 decades but was annexed by Hitler and Stalin. After WW2, when Germany was defeated, the Soviets took over the entire Poland. Poland finally gained independence when Soviet Union collapsed. So Kashmiris will have to wait for the collapse of Pakistan, India and China. In case of Poland, it took more than 200 years. But that was an era of constant warfare and none were nuclear states. Kashmiris can’t even come close to the ferocity with which Poles fought for independence. 1n 1939, Poles simultaneously fought against the Wehrmacht and Red army; a mere attempt to fight against two of the greatest armies in history tells a lot about their courage. Provincial autonomy is all Kashmiris can get.Recommend

  • Chengez K
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:25PM

    What a silly article!!

    Jews looked for home land in Plaestine for over 2000 years & despite worst persecution & bloodshed in the end got what they wanted.

    No Nation in history has ever become strong without going through worst turmoil but that does not mean they give up in their struggle what is their aspiration just because Indian Prime Minister says so.

    About Kashmir ZAB had said it in United Nations ” We are brothers through history,religon,culture ,Geograpy…We are brothers in Flesh & blood”.

    Talking about Indian Muslims the Hindu Baniya did not even allow the Greatest Indian Artist MF Hussain to die in India …even if we show “silence of the lambs” over Kashmir..Hindyu Baniya will still be asking more concessions from us.Recommend

  • Muhammad Faysal
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:28PM

    Kashmiris are increasingly feeling the need of following the idea of independence due to the dismayed state of Pakistan, as is feeling the common balochi,the muhajirs,the pathans, the hazaras and everyone else. Even though my part of Kashmir doesn’t belong to anyone (remember its disputed) the feeling towards Pakistan is much beyond than that of being Muslims.
    Whenever there is Pakistan playing there’s a self imposed curfew, the streets are deserted and everybody is biting his nails and when Afridi is out (shower of abuses) people feel the pain. If Pakistan loses a major tournament, we discuss and analyse it till the next tournament.

    Coke Studio is a rage in Kashmir and yes i listened the first season’s first episode of it (Garaj Baras) on THE MUSIK (which luckily the cable operator was transmitting, there are lots of Pakistani Channels like PTV, Express News, HUM TV (which is my favorite channel) and more.

    When Pakistan won the world cup in 1992, the new borns were named after Imran Khans, Rameez Rajas, Wasim Akrams, Aaqib Javaids and more. Even some names are inspired from the old PTV Shows.

    Yes, Kashmir seeks Independence more increasingly now but our hearts cry for the state of Pakistan. Seriously we don’t give a damn about India, but we love Pakistan. Every Kashmiri in his heart of hearts feels for Pakistan.

    I wish well for Pakistan and may it be shadbad.Recommend

  • abrar
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:41PM

    Mr Bangash,

    Countries and oppressed people do not ‘forget or for go’ their principles for any temporary weakness.If this was the case most of the similar conflicts would have been resolved. Palestine,Chechnya,Tibet would have been resolved long time ago.

    There is an Indian lobby in Pakistan that is bent upon ‘cultural and economical’ dominance of Pakistan. These type of suggestions only lend support to these elements.

    Even if official policy buckles,the people living under the nightmare of 800,00 Indian occupation forces will not give up to demand justice.If changing its principled stand on kashmir is the condition india has to ‘normalise’ its relations Pakistan can afford to ignore that condition and straighten its own house.

    Pakistan is Kashmir’s best hope for support despite its short comings,if that hope goes away that it will give rise to another rebellion that will not only destabilise kashmir again it will engulf the whole region. Recommend

  • qurban
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:42PM

    dear Yaqoob Khan Bangash

    Let me just remind u first im a kashmiri i would rather be part of pakistan than india even if pakistan is going through tough time.

    kashmir is not the cause of pakistan problems it is political leaders people of pakistan who have chosen the leaders over time to lead them they are all corrupt and puppets of the west.

    for pakistan to get out of this problem , pakistan needs a new leader who is not corrupt and who is willing to stand up for his country and doest become a hired gun for west.

    few points;

    1/ get rid of corrupt leaders
    2/ end corruption in the country
    3/ tax all business man rich or poor (make them pay)
    4/ road tax all vehicles

    this are few points but there loads of things pakistan needs to do

    Regarding spending money on our military
    it is a shame for u to say that we shouldnt spend money on our military look at us and india they have got more poor people than we have they spend more money on military.

    if pakistan didnt spend money on military we would have been invaded long time ago by enemy of pakistan.Recommend

  • Muqarrib
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:53PM

    You may forget Kashmir, but please don’t expect us Kashmiris to do so. We will continue our struggle against the brutal Indian occupation and oppression of our people with or without the help of Pakistan.

    To leave Kashmiris to the terrors of merciless occupying forces will be a great moral crime. Recommend

  • RAHUL
    Jul 4, 2011 - 11:59PM

    Truth is Nehru wantted to keep his home state of Kashmir and screwed Pakistan over. That being said we cant give any part away on the ideology that hindus and muslims cannot live tovether. We have gone too far to redraw the border,it’s not going to happen. Only way ahead is Pakistan shut out the military -jihadi complex (easier said!!) embrace economic cooperation with India and others to make the SAARC region the place where the action is. Free movement of goods and people, all this territory nonsense will be history. Oh John Lennon.Recommend

  • ABC
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:15AM

    Dude .. you will make the Army/ISI guys jobless very soon!Recommend

  • Raj
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:16AM

    Well I beg to differ. Pakistan can’t be held responsible for anything related to Indian Muslims. It all depends on how Indians as a whole including the Hindus or Muslims or whatsoever religion he belongs to conduct themselves. Pakistanis need not be bothered about that in general until and unless they are concerned from point of humanity to specific affairs.

    In India,most of the Hindus who dislike or despise Muslims will continue to do so irrespective of what Pakistan do. Similarly a significant proportion of Indian Muslims who are not sure where their heart belongs will continue to remain confused and delusional irrespective of what they get in Indian society. It’s an aspect of human character and then there are some people who knowingly or unknowingly exploit such variations and program the human minds with all attributes except trust, respect and humanity.Recommend

  • anonymous
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:50AM

    Dear numnuts, go ahead and do your home work on why Kashmir is ‘actually’ important to Pakistan & Indian [hint hint... Its called water! ] — other than the usual orthodox emotional / passion filled argument presented on what Pakistan should & shouldn’t do.Recommend

  • Javaid Malik
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:58AM

    I appreciate the thoughts of the writer. His concept to put Pakistan first is perfectly alright, but unfortunately these thoughts in Pakistan are coming to fore too late. In the past two decades Kashmiris have lost more than one lakh lives, properties worth crores have been destroyed, there are more than ten thousand families who don’t know what happened to their dear ones. Kashmiris have put everything on stake for the sake of movement. At present the idea of Kashmir becoming a part of Pakistan may not be that popular among the masses, but most Kashmiris yearn to see their nation free.
    It is really tragic that Pakistan used Kashmir as a batlle ground to setlle its scores with India. Kashmiris have paid a very heavy price for it. Pakistan is in a mess because of the deeds of its own leaders as they failed to turn Pakistan into a vibrant nation. Their politcis in past 63-years has revolved around Kashmir and it has been nothing more than a rehtoric. Only one ruler in Pakistan, General Parvez Musharaff had got the guts to call spade a spade and he had devised a stratergy to take Pakistan out of mess and help Kashmiris to get something. Unfortunately people of Pakistan revolted against him and ousted him out. Pakistan is a strange country it ensures that people who can deliver are thrown out and they recently proved it by sacking Shahid Afridi, who took Pakistan cricket team to semi finals in India in 2011- World Cup. I wish Pakistan all the best as people of Kashmir can never hate them despite their shortcomings. Recommend

  • Ahmad
    Jul 5, 2011 - 1:19AM

    Faraz,
    You are right, the poles did have to wait for such a long time. But you have to realize the reason for which Pakistan was created, as a safe haven for muslims, the ummah of our prophet. In the beginning Pakistan took the moral road and got lies and deceit in return. No one has ever wanted Pakistan to succeed. The same was the case with the United States in the beginning, the united states technicallly did not win the revolutionary war but more that the british left them be. But in 1812 the british came back for war thinking the United States was weaker than before, but look at the US now. I believe that inshallah one day all of kashmir will belong to Pakistan, and Pakistan will rise from the ashes of the fire it is going through right now and it will be stronger for it. Pakistan Zindabad.@faraz: Recommend

  • Saad
    Jul 5, 2011 - 1:24AM

    Well said!
    I really appreciate your views Sire. We should establish our selves first then we have to think about Kashmir. In case if we got Kashmir after 60 – 70 years (which is distinctly impossible) then what we would have to offer them? Load shading of 12 – 15 hours … Corrupt politics and last but not the least… a pathetic political system having noting but incompetency…
    We should have to improve our relation with India (a future economical cheetah) to get our internal problems resolved and to cutoff the extra budget of Army which always acts as a fear to our weak democratic system…

    Deep Regards,
    Pakistan’s well wisher Recommend

  • Jul 5, 2011 - 1:25AM

    The battle is over water. The people of Kashmir are just propoganda pieces for both nations.Recommend

  • Imran
    Jul 5, 2011 - 1:30AM

    Let Kashmiris decide their future. India should fulfill the promise it has made in UNO 60 years agoRecommend

  • Noor Nabi
    Jul 5, 2011 - 1:53AM

    There is no military solution to the Kashmir problem. Never was one and never will be. Recommend

  • sultan khan
    Jul 5, 2011 - 1:59AM

    Are you sure your last name is not Hindash?It cant be Khan.With black laws ,rape and killings in IHK and an army of 700,000 unleashing repression you have the inhuman cheek to advice the people there.Because they are not your relatives.All they want is a peaceful solution.I am sure you are an INDIAN who doesnt like the idea of our existence.Recommend

  • Bilal Narwani
    Jul 5, 2011 - 2:27AM

    I agree with these views. It is time to save Pakistan from another breakup. I fear Baluchistan would separate like East Pakistan. There have been so many killings , human rights violations , torcher in Baluchistan. I read in Dawn that many Baluchis are reluctant Pakistanis. Baluchistan is 43% of the land, and if that breaks away from Pakistan, it wont be long enough when Pashtuns and Sindhis would want to break away. There is no end to killings in Karachi, Shia-Sunni violence, MQM-Pashtun violence. Hazaras are killed on regular basis. Pakistan should forget Kashmir and use the energy to save Pakistan, improve the standard of living of ordinary Pakistanis. Kashmiris do not want to join Pakistan. Pakistan should stop wasting money in training Jihadis in different training camps to forment trouble in India. Instead use that money to betterment of Pakistanis. These Jihadis are creating trouble in Pakistan. Stop giving moral support, in the name of moral support we are creating trouble in Kashmir. The world does not have a favourable opinion of Pakistan. Forget Kashmir, Save Pakistan, Let India keep Jammu Kashmir.Recommend

  • Chinar
    Jul 5, 2011 - 2:29AM

    It is because of selfish Pakistanis like u that Kashmiris are having second thoughts about joining Pakistan. U r right Pakistan has nothing to offer them but care to elaborate on why n for what reason more than 120,000 Kashmiris(mostly civilians) have laid down their lives????? or why Pakistan supported Kashmiris n their legitimate rights over these last 60 or more years. U talk about literacy rate n per capita income, why don’t you talk about custodial murders, rapes, enforced disappearances etc in the same breath. Do you know Kashmir has a high per capita income because of a very small population compared to other Indian states otherwise Kashmiris don’t get any special treatment.

    India,Pakistan n China are Nuclear powers but who has borne the maximum brunt of it all, Not Pakistanis for sure n If you can think that they have………how should we Kashmiris think???????Recommend

  • Chandler
    Jul 5, 2011 - 2:44AM

    Wise words. But they will always fall on deaf ears – in Pakistan of course.Recommend

  • Iqbal Khan
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:04AM

    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them? – by Abraham Lincoln.

    You don’t make peace with friends. You make it with very unsavory enemies – Yitzhak Rabin Recommend

  • Malay
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:24AM

    @Kasim and @Faraz

    Sensible and realistic solution.
    Too many lives and too much resources have been lost from all sidesRecommend

  • Babloo
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:47AM

    Pakistan lost East Pakistan, yearning for Kashmir.
    Will Pakistan now lose what is left in its fixation over Indian Kashmir ?
    Only time will tell.Recommend

  • Arindom
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:51AM

    What about a democratic and secular “automonous region” of Kashmir (covering both Pakistan and Indian). De-militarised, De-securitised, Non-aligned, with a ‘Passive-State’ Constitution (one like Japan) and Open to both India and Pakistani citizens to visit (but not settle) and a Passive non-aligned, non aggresive Foreign Policy?Recommend

  • Arindom
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:55AM

    @Muhammad Faysal:

    Just ask the Balochs and Pashtoons about their “great” experiences under Pakistani (Punjabi) dominance!!Recommend

  • irfan hashmi
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:08AM

    Pakistan is reaping the rewards it has ivested for maney years. It strategically new its ge plan. Pakistan does not need to explain itself. The wroting is on the wall.my brothers and sisters are better off with ondia. I do not need to explain the reasons.Recommend

  • rahim
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:17AM

    @Muhammad Faysal:
    So Why does Kashmir increasingly ask for independence ??.. I am not sure what you mean, I guess you like the river from the distance but do not want to venture into it’s muddy waters. Recommend

  • Blithe
    Jul 5, 2011 - 5:08AM

    This is the worst article I have ever read!

    This is a great time for Pakistan
    to press for UN Resolutions to be enacted
    as the entire world is looking for lasting peace
    in this region. Cowards and intellectually bankrupt people
    like you cannot see this.
    Ask yourself this question.
    If Indian occupied Kashmir is doing so well,
    why doesn’t India allow for a plebecite right now.
    Answer: Kashimirs will vote for Pakistan
    over India.

    And why are 700,000 Indian soldiers busy
    Terrorizing the Kashmiris!?!?
    We have to maintain our principled stand on
    Kashmir and ignore the noise coming from the
    likes of you.

    And your argument about economic disparity
    is something from your fertile imagination.
    Kashmiris in Pakistan are doing extremely well in
    the economic and political spheres.

    Pakistanis love Kashmiris and Kashmir become part
    of Pakistan on the basis of UN Resilutions. Recommend

  • Blithe
    Jul 5, 2011 - 5:14AM

    @Kasim, Lahore:
    Stop masquerading to be a Lahori!Recommend

  • Akthar
    Jul 5, 2011 - 5:37AM

    What if india asks us to hold plebiscite in balochistan & Ajad kashmir? Will we do that? & yes, i believe we should put our own house in order otherwise we might become North & South pakistan. There is a full fledged war raging in northwest & sectarianism is ripe!

    We hardly have friends! Even Our all weather, deeper, taller friend has held successful talkswith india. Its time to realize times have changed!Recommend

  • agthagola
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:04AM

    I believe time is comming when india will actually be requesting to take Kashmir and leave india alone but by then it will be too late for india and. Pakistan fought one war out of four with india for Kashmir (1947) and got 1/3rd of kashmir back. In 65 and 71 Pakistan was not a nuclear state and india was able to bully PK. Not any more. I believe following events will take place in next few years. 1. West (armies of 46countries) will leave Afghanistan soon with it dreams of expansion crashed on Hindu Kush. 2. More assertive goverments will be in Afghanistan and Pakistan. 3. Mugahideen will start moving in Kashmir and india will be unable to withstand the upgraded fight with thousands of Mujahideen battle hardened in Afghanistan, moving in to librate Kashmir. Time, high moral is on the side of Muslims in general.

    I believe new era for Muslims is starting and all the outstanding problems will be solved in favor of Muslims. Both Kashmir and Palistine will be librated in next dacade or so and the culprits will be punished. I believe Islam is the future of the world. Remember all the 60+ Muslim countries used to be either Christians, Hindus or had other religions few centuries ago. My bestimate is that Muslim world population at this time is between 55-60 percent of total world population, and growing fast after 911. The 2nd lagest Mulsim country is India and third largest country with Muslim population is China. Pakistan and Turkey number after them. Duplication time of Muslims is 25 years. In next 25 years Hinduism, christianinity and judism will be fringe religions and Islam will be the most dominant religion. Internationl issues will start solving in favor of Muslims. Recommend

  • Jul 5, 2011 - 6:07AM

    Dear Sir you have said About Kashmir ” We are brothers through history,religon,culture ,Geograpy…We are brothers in Flesh & blood”. Sir, the same is true for all the Indians as you must be aware that all the Muslims in India and Pakistan did not came from out side India majority embraced Islam here. So we are also half brothers and sisters. Thousands may be having their origin in “Hindu Baniya” as you say.@Chengez K: Recommend

  • vasan
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:59AM

    It is a pity that people do not discuss the pundits in Kashmir ( and elsewhere driven out by religious bigots) ,Bhuddists in Ladakh and Hindus in Jammu. Dont their wish count at all??Recommend

  • r
    Jul 5, 2011 - 7:03AM

    Only if Pakistan could……

    All claims and their legitimacy aside, Pakistan’s approach to addressing the issue is baffling. Many countries have territorial issues with each other, but hardly anyone has chosen the path of terrorism to attain its goals. This is a deliberate policy by the state with full support from its subjects.

    Recommend

  • raja lahori
    Jul 5, 2011 - 7:20AM

    very dumb article indeed. Only if you knew the history…Recommend

  • Mir Gh. Rasool
    Jul 5, 2011 - 7:29AM

    Dear author what is your thinking about kashmir , we kashmiries don’t know from home you are getting money to publish these articles we don’t know. We know only one thing Indian Army killed millions of kashmiri, so we can’t live with India, freedom is our birth right so we want freedom. India has made this heavn hell like, a big jail for us, we cant live with India, our culture, religion is different from India, we will fight till death and get freedom from India.Recommend

  • Frank
    Jul 5, 2011 - 8:33AM

    The author makes assertion after assertion without any logic or facts to back them up. For just one example, he talks about economic indicators of Pakistan being so bad that no Kashmiri would not want to join Pakistan, but by most economic indicators India and Pakistan are at exactly the same stage of development. This article also illustrates how the English speaking ‘elite’ is out of touch with mainstream Pakistan. It’s almost like they’re living in a different country from the rest of us.Recommend

  • Hira
    Jul 5, 2011 - 8:50AM

    Seriously some people have such a severe inferiority complex. Before anyone starts offering Kashmir to India, I think we should let the Kashmiris decide who they want to live with. And they choose Pakistan in front of maniacs who shoot at rock throwing protestors.Recommend

  • amarjamali
    Jul 5, 2011 - 8:58AM

    kashmir issue must be resolved according to the wishes of kashmiri peoples neither india nor pakistan should have been right to annex them.But unfortunatly indian govt showed arrogance towards kashmiries and forcibly annexed them with india even ignored the resolutions of un.now if we accept indian perspective it means motto of might is right still justified in the world.Recommend

  • Bammbaayyaa
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:06AM

    Kashmir is just a Real Estate problem for Pakistan … Why wud it generate so much of cannon fodder of Kashmiris … if they were concerened about the Kashmiri people …
    Worst thing is they are drowining in there own creation now …Recommend

  • akash
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:19AM

    sensible article..however pakistan is not a custodian of wellbeing of all muslims all over the world. if it just manages to keep its house in order, that will be good.

    @chinar and other kashmiris.. well if you are a kashmiri then perhaps you are ignorant of the amount of money india is pouring into your state.. an Indian cannot even buy a land there.. you have always enjoyed special status.. thanks to discriminatory policy of indian governments and also because of your special religion…

    no one is denying there may have been issues and india is trying to get things right.. and it is only India who will even try.. countries like Russia or china or your dear brother pakistan wont even listen.. just look at balochis or if you care to look at past.. bangladesh is a fit example..why dont ever look at positives.. election job creation.. tourism..

    and what about pakistan’s support of militancy? i think that killed 100 times more than our army ever could.

    like pakistanis many of our kashmiri brothers unfortunately see everything through the eyes of religion.. what about kashmiri who are of other religions.. clearly neither kashmiri muslims or pakistanis care… so much for helping our kashmiri brothers
    and where does this figure 7 lac or 8 lac indian forces in valley come from.. dream.. ??
    and yes one last thing forget UN resolution when you occupy part of Indian kashmir and call it azad kasmir. Recommend

  • Samir
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:24AM

    We Kashmiris are tired of Pakistanis posing to be Kashmiri on message boards. Most of us are just tired of India and Pakistan fighting over us. We don’t want to join anyone. We want to just be left alone.

    Both the Indian and Pakistani Parts of Kashmir are a joke. Azad Kashmir has no political rights and the economy is in shambles only supported by British Kashmiris sending back millions of pounds each year. Indian Kashmir has far too much police and the Indian government needs to realize Kashmiris might actually like them if they’d just leave us alone. There was an indigenous freedom movement in Indian Kashmir but it was quickly hijacked by Benazir Bhutto and Pakistani terrorists. We don’t speak the same language or have the same culture as India or Pakistan but your countries have insisted on turning our paradise into a living hell.

    Kashmiris – Muslims and others, want to just live peacefully. If autonomy is the practical solution, then do that. Just leave us alone and stop pretending like you know what we want.

    Kudos to the author. Recommend

  • Sandeep
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:31AM

    @faraz: I don’t think Kashmir is like Poland, it is more like Trieste. Look it up in wiki, it has a similar history to Kashmir, and in fact UN treated both similarly. However Yugoslavia and Italy behaved like civilized nations and did the right thing, unlike India and Pakistan. I’m Indian, but I really tire of this South Asian psyche of always trying to screw over the other guy.

    Rahul was right, Nehru screwed you guys over :( We can’t go back in time though so we’re stuck with the status quo. I understand the passion you guys have for Kashmir, but let it go for a little bit. Even in South Asia, friends may be able to negotiate better than enemies.

    Things are also dramatically different in India even from about 10 years ago. We’re more confident. The Maoist insurgency/anti-corruption movement are because people that have been left out want a piece of the pie. This is not a bad thing. I think 5-6 years there will be no Maoist insurgency because everyone will be busy with jobs etc. I also get the feeling Hindus are slightly more tolerant now than before towards Muslims, Sikhs, Dalits etc.Recommend

  • swapnil patel
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:34AM

    Many pakistani moderate voices had told the establishment and to the people of pakistan to forget about kashmir and to put it’s own house in order.But like many of these voices this one also be faded away. What PM MMS has told is nothing new. If any politician in whole south asia is optimistic about the peace between india and pakistan,is PM Manmohan singh and no one else. He has gone against his entire cabinet and Ms.soniya gandhi just to see little change in this bilateral relationship. One thing for sure I can tell to pakistani friends here is that this guy hardy gives any advice which is wrong or cold be harmful in any way to any person or country. Even opponents like BJP and other parties can’t point a fingr at him though there is massive corruption in this government.I don’t think author here said anything unacceptable to anyone on either side of LOC.One thing is sure that unstable pakistan is not acceptable to anyone not even us indians.Recommend

  • Hindu Indian
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:40AM

    @agthagola:
    Very eye opening comment by you, Sir. Remembering the History that you want to. Kargil happened after both the countries became Nuclear, We Hindus have been here before Islam came and we are here to stay. If you think your Mujahideen brothers can “liberate” Kashmir, all i can say is “Best of Luck”. If all issues were to be solved if we get converted to Islam, why is Iran and RSA still fighting over Islam? Think bhai, think Recommend

  • Ranjit
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:42AM

    Looks like a few Kashmiri origin Pakistanis are protesting against this article….and they are pretending that they are from Indian Kashmir…..no Kashmiri from actual Indian Kashmir is writing over here…….Kashmir just had Panchayat elections with 80% participation…….terrorist violence is almost zero now…….all the stone throwing from last year has disappeared as the government has arrested the troublemakers……tens of thousands of tourists are visiting and enjoying Kashmir…….Kashmir is now peaceful and people are enjoying their lives……of course, Pakistans cannot tolerate it that Kashmiris and Indians are finally happy and having a good time as fellow citizens of a great nation…….

    If Kashmiris are that upset with India, how come they are not fighting a war with India like the Afghans are doing in Afghanistan?……how come there are no suicide bombings?……how come when Indian army opens a recruitment camp, thousands of Muslim Kashmiris fight with each other to get a job in the Indian army?……

    Lets face the facts…..Pakistan has failed to get Kashmir and it will always fail to do so……for the simple fact, that India with all its problems, is still far, far better option for Kashmiris than Pakistan……..and with hundreds of nuclear weapons, who dares to take away Kashmir from India?……India was on the verge of using nukes during Kargil war……do you think they will just let Kashmir go without a nuclear holocaust?………Recommend

  • Nadeem
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:48AM

    So many commenters here think the author is advocating that Kashmir should give up its freedom struggle. That is not the case. All he is saying is that Pakistan cannot afford to keep gambling away its budget – and hence its progress – because of Kashmir. More pressing problems at home – terrorism, illiteracy, misgovernance, Baloch dissatisfaction – are more deserving of the money we hand over to an army that has been driving our national agenda. Obviously the strategy is not working.Recommend

  • anil
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:51AM

    @Mir Gh. Rasool
    Then get out of India,go to any part of world where ur culture matches,else fight till death.Recommend

  • Irshad Khan
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:54AM

    The last para has a reason and logic. Our President Mr. Zardari, at the time of his oath taking ceremony had given a great great news that Kashmir problem will be solved within a month, I think the news were those disclosed by Manmohan Singh now!Recommend

  • Suresh
    Jul 5, 2011 - 10:00AM

    Which Kashmir? Jammu, Ladhak, Poonch, Rajouri, Valley? And how about the that is on Pakistani side like say Gilgit and Baltistan, how is the freedom and liberation of the people here?Recommend

  • vickram
    Jul 5, 2011 - 10:07AM

    @Imran:
    @Blithe:

    I think it is high time someone stopped this nonsense and hogwash about the plebiscite and UN resolution.

    No one in the world cares about UN resolution and nor does it India. In fact, the world community have moved on, learnt about the lies of Pak and now don’t care about Kashmir at all. You can bleat about UN resolutions till they Kingdom come, but, nothing is gonna happen and you are spoiling your parched throat.

    In case you don’t know, the moment Pak invaded and occupied large parts of Kashmir, the terms of UN Resolution have been rendered infructuous. Null and Void. Meaningless.

    Subsequent to the UN resolution, a lot has happened:

    —Pak has invaded and occupied much of Kashmir, now called Azad Kashmir. (This is a violation of UN resolution. Prior to conducting a plebiscite, how can another country invade a supposedly disputed territory and occupy it?)

    — UN Resolution 47 says Pak should withdraw all its forces from Kashmir before a plebiscite could be conducted.

    —Some parts of Azad Kashmir have been gifted by Pak to Chinese.

    —By invading Kashmir, Pak has managed to try to alter the demographics.

    —In Indian Kashmir, millions of Kashmiri pandits have been driven out valley. Kashmir belongs to them too.

    —In Indian Kashmir, militants supported by Pak have systematically indulged in ethnic cleansing, making the lives of Hindus difficult in Kashmir.

    So, my dear Pak friends, the plebiscite will surely happen, provided:

    — Pak vacates Azad Kashmir and withdraws its forces as per UN Resolution 47

    — Pak takes back the land gifted to Chinese

    — All Kashmiri Pandits return to valley.

    NONE OF THE ABOVE ARE LIKELY TO HAPPEN

    In short, to make a plebiscite happen, we need to restore the conditions prevailed in 1947, we need to maintain the status quo ante.

    Since none of the above are likely to happen, please come out of your cocoons, see the reality and stop parroting, blabbering about UN resolutions and plebiscites. They are not going to happen. Live with it.Recommend

  • N.S
    Jul 5, 2011 - 10:27AM

    Dear auther Pakistan should also worry about muslim terrible situation in China and also muslims of Balochistan where every day people were killed by ISI and same apply to the target killing in Karachi.Recommend

  • Kashif ali
    Jul 5, 2011 - 11:14AM

    By all comments, the writer needs to know what Kashmirs want not what u liberal fascist would like to achieve.Recommend

  • Feroz
    Jul 5, 2011 - 11:38AM

    @Chengez K:
    Inspite of being a Muslim the tone and tenor of your rant is both casteist and communal. India is a diverse country and to describe Indians as Hindu Baniyas reflects both mental make up and quality of upbringing. In a discussion on Kashmir you had the temerity and gall to bring up the issue of late artist M F Hussain. Hussain remains one of India’s most respected artists even today. Who gave him name and fame, the same people you call Baniyas. Hussain has been painting Indian Goddesses in the nude for over fifty years, he did it out of reverential artistic Joy not malice. No one in India ever gave a damn. It was the forces of Religious Fundamentalism raging in Pakistan that blew Eastward and created an issue out of an non issue forcing Hussain to flee five years ago. Yes the Hindu Baniyas put up with him and gave him name and fame for 45 years till the good Muslims fundamentalized the neighborhood and forced him to flee.
    No logic or reason can ever win over a fundamentalist but I needed to counter your false propaganda. In a Kashmir discussion stick to Kashmir.Recommend

  • anil
    Jul 5, 2011 - 11:56AM

    @Kashif ali

    why does author want to know what Kashmir wants ?? Is he the god-father of all Kashmiris ?? does he come to front when terrorists kill people in Kashmir,or when minorities were forced to leave Kashmir ?What author wants to do is to run a religion buggy in Kasmir and create spat .Tha’s it .Many people say about UN,but UN says Pak to evacuate its occupied portion and bring it back to 1947 conditions.Then only any dicission will be taken.Then do it first.Some readers are also chanting nationalistic words without any basis.Recommend

  • Feroz
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:00PM

    India and Pakistan have both exploited Kashmiri’s and Kashmir issue for over six decades. The overwhelming wish of the Kashmiri people is to be independent which is not acceptable to India, Pakistan or the international community. Considering this fact the onus for a solution out of the quagmire must come from Kashmiri brothers and sisters. Will anyone accept that ? Recommend

  • Frank
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:02PM

    anil

    Then get out of India,go to any part
    of world where ur culture matches,else
    fight till death.

    Dear Express Tribune, it’s OK for Indians to threaten Kashmiris with ethnic cleansing and death but it’s not OK for Pakistanis to criticize you and your little crew of burger writers? You are too transparent. Recommend

  • abhi
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:11PM

    The article is laking logic. Pakistan should stop worrying about kashmir not because pakistan is economically weak now but becuase it was not the issue they should be worried about to start with.
    The pakistani point of view on kashmir can only be supported by the likes of “agthagola” who have the grand vision (delusion) of great islamic kilafat conqering the whole world some time in future.Recommend

  • sanjithmenon
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:42PM

    The author is correct. Pakistan has a peak demographic dividend window stretching between 1990-2045. 20 years have already been wasted, you will enter the peak of the curve in the next 5 years and from then on it will start falling and tapers off by 2045. 50% is wasted, try save the rest of it, rather than dreaming with the generals. India will always be an enemy with or without Kashmir. Recommend

  • wani
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:53PM

    ?pakistan is not a nation-panjab+bloch+sind+india+kashmir are anation+you must be forget pakistan—india–is a subcontenet-way you chosen pakistan-it was a big mestake–if you dont minds torms???————Recommend

  • Frank
    Jul 5, 2011 - 12:58PM

    Suresh

    Which Kashmir? Jammu, Ladhak, Poonch,
    Rajouri, Valley?

    Indian occupied Poonch and Rajouri are parts of J & K but not of the Vale of Kashmir. They are historically parts of West Punjab and the people who live there are Punjabi Muslims, just like the people of Rawalpindi or Jhelum. Pakistan has a stake in Indian held J & K whichever way you try to spin it.Recommend

  • Hedgefunder
    Jul 5, 2011 - 1:27PM

    @Imran:
    Yes i agree with you, in reagrds to let the people of kashmir decide, however who decided to hand over part of this land to china???
    Were kashmiris consulted by Pakistanis at the time of sell off to china??
    What right did Pakistan have to sell that land, which was part of the disputed land of Kashmir,did they consult UN ???
    The answer is No to the All of the Above !!!
    So now Pakistan would like to offer the Kashmiris the Referendum as to their future!!!
    Why did Pakistan also dilute the actual Kashmiri population by introducing internal migration in these territory???
    Perhaps they thaught that way the vote bank would tilt in their favour!!!!
    There will be no long term solution to this problem, its been there since last 60 odd years and may remain there for another 60 years, but the question is will Pakistan remain in its present form for that period of time is anyones guess at present!!
    So the Indians will sit this out and await the outcome of Pakistan to come out of its own internal crises, and let’s not kid ourselves, regardless what their media, Govt or Army may say or not say as is always the case with Pakistan. There are plenty of them to really keep them busy for next decade at least, if there is going to be turn around in their economy, social structure and International standing too !!!
    Having a Bomb does’nt really qualify Pakistan to be major player of anything in 21st century World, its about having Economic Clout that matters in today’s World !!!Recommend

  • Easy
    Jul 5, 2011 - 1:59PM

    Wow the only response Indians commenting on this page can come up with is to threaten Kashmiris with a mass exodus or death. Great going.

    Dear Author, Kashmir belongs to the Kashmiris. And come hell or high water Pakistan will stand with Kashmiris.Recommend

  • Easy
    Jul 5, 2011 - 2:09PM

    @abhi:

    Wasn’t it the ever self-righteous Gandhi who supported the Khilafat Movement? I wonder why common indians just won’t follow the ideals of their ‘mahatama’?Recommend

  • dude
    Jul 5, 2011 - 2:19PM

    Kashmir will not be free from India and Pakistan until Tibet is free from China.Recommend

  • dude
    Jul 5, 2011 - 2:21PM

    many people complain here that Indian army has killed many Kashimiris, please tell me who is responsible. Its Pakistan which is responsible, Kashmir was a safe/peaceful place on earth before Pakistan started sending terrorists to India. Do you think Indian Army should welcome and pamper the infiltrated militants from Pakistan?Recommend

  • Subhash, India
    Jul 5, 2011 - 2:52PM

    @Chengez K:
    Need to show respect to the other side. What do you mean by Hindu Baniya ? Should we call Pakistani Muslims as Muslim Butchers ?Recommend

  • Subhash, India
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:10PM

    @Chengez K:
    Need to show respect to the other side. What do you mean by Hindu Baniya ? Should we call Pakistani Muslims as Muslim Butchers ?
    Request to the MODERATOR :- Pls publish my response as a tit for tat & a cry for reasoned debate.Recommend

  • Frank
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:14PM

    Ranjit, the fact that you Indians are willing to fight a nuclear war over a country you have been illegally occupying and whose population you have been persecuting for so many years shows what a threat India really us to Pakistan.Recommend

  • Bilal
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:18PM

    I don’t really understand your point in this article.
    1. If you’re saying that Kashmir should be put on backburner then I believe that it has been in the freeze since 1999 (Musharraf’s policy continues). So we’re as much hands-off Kashmir as we could ever be or as our founding leaders could ever imagine. Come on now, we don’t even see advertisements of Indian’s atrocities on PTV anymore…so what is it that you’re suggesting ?
    Let me tell you that no ruler in pakistan (representative or dictatorial) would ever be able to get away with compromising Kashmir. It’s not about economics or survival my dear Yaqoob, Kashmir is survival for Pakistan. And anyone who knows the geostrategics would accept that fact as did the creaters of Pakistan and India. I don’t understand when people start professing to know better than Jinnah, Nehru or Mountbatten the dynamics of Kashmir.
    2. If you’re saying that Kashmir should be forgotten just because the power equation isn’t working in our favor then I believe that you don’t compromise a principled stand as a nation. Kashmir is as much important to Pakistan’s existence as Punjab, Sindh, KP or Balauchistan. He we’re seeing hell being raised in the country given the war next door and it spillover effect, but let me tell you it is these times when nations hold on to their spirit and hope to get through. Let us not be emotional either ways. And let us continue to cherish Kashmiris right to choose against all the odds that they or we face.
    Just because the other party has leverage over you don’t make a wrong thing right. Or are we discussing international law without moral considerations ? Recommend

  • Jul 5, 2011 - 3:18PM

    Thank god this article hasn’t come from Karachite, he would been branded as traitor otherwise.Recommend

  • kamal
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:28PM

    Pakistan is acting like a suicide bomber ie “I will kill myself but will take India along with me”.If this is the approach then no settlement or agreement can take place.We Indians are also have the feeling that We will live with Kashmir and will die with Kashmir.I do’nt see any solution to Kashmir people because India is major military power and nobody will take on India.If india decides that it will go to any extent to ward off any unwanted aggression from either Pakistan or China or both then Pakistan will not be on world’s map and China will be atleast 500 yrs behind.
    I do’nt think Pakistan or China or both will take that chance..not in current situation atleast.Recommend

  • Hira
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:41PM

    Lol wonderful solution to human rights violations in Indian occupied Kashmir BLAME PAKISTAN! Now I have heard everything.

    I am not denying that Pakistan has problems but then so does every country. And Pakistanis have to collectively solve their problems

    But to believe that if ‘Pakistan leaves Kashmir alone’ then all issues within the valley will magically disappear is childish. All that is going on in Held Kashmir is a popular resistance movement against Indian state terrorism. And they will continue to fight for their rights with or without Pakistan’s support. Recommend

  • Farrah Ali
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:47PM

    A few points; I don’t think that the 140 million Indian Muslims are being targeted or suspected more so because of our ‘antagonistic attitude’. Nationalism is been increasing in India since the 1980′s and those people will continue to feel about Muslim’s as they always have done. At the same time India benefits form such large number of minorities because it legitimises the way it presents itself to the outside world, as a democratic and secular state. So if the divisions become more strained, it’s up to Singh’s government to deal with it. I don’t think the problem is on Pakistan’s shoulders.

    Secondly on Kashmir, I think it’s morbidly offensive to suggest that Pakistan should ‘just let the issue go’ in a moral sense. What is happening in Kashmir in terms of the illegality of the occupation, the disregard for the rights of Kashmiri’s (Hindus and Muslims), the oppression, killing and torture of innocent civilians has to remain, for as long as it takes, mentioned. By now many Pakistani people have come around to idea that Kashmiri’s are looking for independence and a separate homeland, rather than a merge with Pakistan. And of course Pakistan MUST look inwards, begin to put its own house in order, work with India on anything that’ll benefit the country and on India’s concerns; so that should the Kashmiri’s ever need us, we can provide them with something useful. So that we can be there for Kashmir and help in a practical way. But throughout our mutual processes of development we shouldn’t just abandon talking about the issue surely and just accept it being wiped away from all of our memories and consciousness’. Incidentally, two Indian Kashmiri’s that I recently met still feel more affinity to Pakistan, which really surprised me given our conditions.

    On the other hand, India has continued a programme of indoctrination on Kashmir forcing people to believe that Kashmir ascended to India legitimately, which it never did. This has to be a bad move, the issue of Kashmir isn’t going to go away for India, and its hindering its progress; it’ll become a ‘Tibet’ for the protesting world.Recommend

  • Farrah Ali
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:53PM

    @RAHUL:
    I think the borders can technically still be redrawn, and redrawn and redrawn. But seperately, both people in Pakistan AND India are getting in the way of economic co-operation, you can’t put all the blame on Pakistan. Had India not opposed the EU tarrifs (1 year, 72 items) deal for Pakistan to aid it in its recovery from the floods last year which left us with 10 billion dollars worth of losses, the relationship might have made some progress. Recommend

  • narayana murthy
    Jul 5, 2011 - 3:58PM

    Brave article, that won’t go down well with Pakistanis.

    I want to go a step further and provoke these Pakistanis, who are both blind of history and lack common sense.

    Here’s is my argument. Muslims came to India (subcontinent) a few centuries ago. For several thousands of years, this region has belonged to us Hindus.

    In other words, Today’s Pakistan, Afghanistan are basically Muslim occupied land. But, being the most liberal of all religions on Earth, Hindus won’t mind it. But remember, Kashmir (which by the way is derived from sanskrit) is a Hindu land once occupied by Muslims. But throughout history, Hindus have absorbed and assimilated other religions, races, ethnicity, nationalities. We have absorbed, Africans, Jews, Zorostrians, Muslims, Christians.

    All these people have always and will always enjoy as much (in fact more rights) in this country than Hindus do. Which is fine. So, Kashmirirs are welcome to live as Indians in India for always and eternity. Be loyal to India, be Indians. And always remember that you are the occupiers of Hindu land.

    But, if Kashmiris want a seperate country, they have two and only two choices.

    1) You are welcome to migrate to Pakistan and live the lives of Pakistanis (without identity)…

    2) Face the wrath of Indians.

    Some foolish fellow quoted Poland and how they had to wait for 200 years. With Kashmiris, they can wait for 2000 years and yet not be seperate.

    This is knowledge that every knowledgeable and sensible Pakistani, deed down their heart of hearts understands extremely extremely well.Recommend

  • Farrah Ali
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:00PM

    @r:
    What about the full support of the state of India in its decades long illegal occupation and oppression of Kashmir’s civilians? Recommend

  • Farrah Ali
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:04PM

    @Ranjit:
    I think many Indian people would be embarrassed by your delusional rant. The stone throwing ‘of last year’ is over and peace and joy are prevailing in Indian Kashmir? Kashmiri civilians have been protesting against brutal Indian occupation for decades. You did not win. You will not win if oppression continues. The problem will not go away. You have to address it. Recommend

  • narayana murthy
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:13PM

    @Blithe…

    “If Indian occupied Kashmir is doing so well,
    why doesn’t India allow for a plebecite right now.
    Answer: Kashimirs will vote for Pakistan
    over India.”

    Your question and answers are right. But the analysis is senseless. India will not allow a plebiscite today because in the first place, Pakistan has to meet the condition, which is, it should leave Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Secondly, Hindus and Buddhists and even Sikhs have been driven out of India’s Kashmir, because of the terrorism by your country. At the same time, Pakistan occupied Kashmir (which is ironically called as Azad Kashmir) is diluted with Punjabis and other non-Kashmiris.

    So, you tell me, how is it logical and statutory to have an election? Or is it too much to ask for logic form Pakistanis?Recommend

  • narayana murthy
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:16PM

    @ agthagola…

    You are one funny dude. And extremely delusional.

    What you are basically doing is wishfully thinking and calling them as prediction.

    Do you know what the world is predicting about Pakistan? That Pakistan will be broken again.

    So, be practical and don’t fall into the hands of people like Zaid Hamid. And for god’s sakes, take a look at your country and what is happening there.Recommend

  • Manoj
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:20PM

    ” Kashmir will remain part of India, with Pakistan, without Pakistan and Inspite of Pakistan” : Ex Prime Minister of India – P.V. Narsinhma Rao

    We Indians agree to Our Ex. PM’s word and Ensure that His words are proved to be words inscribed on stone, never to be erased by any worldly force.Recommend

  • Easy
    Jul 5, 2011 - 4:42PM

    @Dude:

    Dude sweet common!
    You’re saying Pakistan is responsible for sending in half a million Indian troops in Kashmir who do nothing more than shoot at stone throwing protestors.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/india/reporttwo-killed-16-injured-in-fresh-protests-in-kashmir1439168

    As far as infiltrators are concerned, its an open secret every and any Kashmiri harbouring separatist notions is a Pakistani infiltrator, according to the Indian military, and liable to be killed through fake encounters.

    http://news.oneindia.in/2010/05/29/army-once-involved-in-fake-encounter-in-j-k.htmlRecommend

  • LOL
    Jul 5, 2011 - 5:04PM

    @Vickram:

    “So, my dear Pak friends, the plebiscite will surely happen, provided:
    — Pak vacates Azad Kashmir and withdraws its forces as per UN Resolution 47
    — Pak takes back the land gifted to Chinese
    — All Kashmiri Pandits return to valley.”

    1) Resolution 47 calls for India to withdraw their forces and maintain them at a bare minimum as well. Under the resolution Law-and-order is the subject of the Plebiscite Administration. Why don’t you hand it over to them?

    2) The border agreement between Pakistan and China is of provisional nature subject to the final settlement of the Kashmir dispute.

    3) Whats stopping these pandits from returning to the valley? Im sure it cant be the hapless Kashmiris who live constantly under the barrel of the gun.

    These conditions you mention can be easily fulfilled. Provided you have the willingness to stand by your promises and your international commitments.Recommend

  • Tony Singh
    Jul 5, 2011 - 5:21PM

    @Frank:
    Before casting stone at others, look at your own part of Kashmir (or what is left of it)
    1. You call it Azad Kashmir but its anything but Azad. Your PPP,MQM,PML fought elections in “Azad” Kashmir, which according to you is a soverign nation
    2. There are no Kashmiris left in Azad Kashmir. That is why people were casting their votes in Karachi.
    3. You have ethinically cleansed Kashmir of Kashmiris. Only Punjabis live there now.
    4. And how about the part of Kashmir you gifted tp China?
    @ChangezK
    You martial race “World’s best Army”, supported by “World’s best Spy agency” has had three+ wars with us “Baniyas”. Time you thought what we Baniyas can do to you when push comes to shove. Next time when you comment on us remember 90K + soldiers of “world’s best Army” surrendered to 3K Baniya Army on 16th Dec 1971.Recommend

  • Hedgefunder
    Jul 5, 2011 - 5:51PM

    @Farrah Ali:
    I suggest you really take long hard look at the indoctrination of the couple of generations in every aspect of life that has and still is being conducted in Pakistan first, before you decide to discuss Indian point of view in regards to Kashmir !!!!
    Where has this policy lead Pakistan in last 60 years??
    Show me the progress, that has been achieved with such policies, perhaps we should forget mention of East Pakistan, as this have been wiped out of your history books too !!!Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:03PM

    In a political game of Chess, Pakistan will get stale mated by its own Kashmir pieces(policies).Recommend

  • Hedgefunder
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:04PM

    @Farrah Ali:
    Why should EU grant special exemptions to Pakistan?? There far too many other nations in lot worse situation than pakistan who also have not been granted this status by EU.
    In regards to the floods, yes its a major disaster, but what have Pakistanis really done about it ??? Not a lot !!
    The reason that Aid did not flow in as fast as the Kashmir earthquake disaster, is purely due to the donar nations have figured it out that there is serious abuse of this very Aid, hence reluctance on their part to dole cash out for such causes when it comes to Pakistan !!
    Also note that Pakistan’s reputation worldwide is not that great, in whichever field you may consider, they are not trusted anymore due to their deceit and duplicity and inactions !!!!
    The People of Pakistan really needs to take stock and look inwards, rather than go on Blame Games and Conspriracy against them BS. They have created the situation they are in, by mismanaging their economy, allowing the clergy in politics accepting Aid for creating radical young generation and lastly serious erosion of Education, Law & Order, Safety & Security of its own people!!!Recommend

  • Abhi
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:09PM

    @easy
    Good you remembered Mahatma, situation wouldn’t be so bad in pakistan if you had remembered him earlier.
    The khilafat movement which he supported was not for establishing the khilafat all over the world but it was to save the traditional form of government in Turky.

    For those who are making lots of hue and cry about “ethnic cleansing” it is actually done by pak supported terrorists who killed and expelled kashmiri pandits. If India had beahved like pakistan’s beloved friend China, today Kashmiris would been in a minority even in kashmir valley. Migration of only half of the mumbai or delhi’s population is good enough to change the composition in the valley and all this without any “ethnic cleansing”Recommend

  • Hindu Indian
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:19PM

    @Feroz:
    I do agree with wat Feroz says, Both India and Pakistan have exploited the term “Kashmir” to their own advantage, now the situation is gotten out of hand, we Indians cant give up Kashmir because the “public” will resent it and no Political Party would dare think of it and Pakistan cant give up on Kashmir because you say, it was part of the initial Pakistan which Allama Iqbal dreamt of. Its a deadlock.

    For All Indians who think everyone who writes against India is a Pakistani, wake up guys, the Constitution allows us to express our feeling as long as it doesnt hurt someone else. Recommend

  • antony
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:22PM

    .Ask any Indian who is 20 something he will most likely not know much about 1947 -48 war or even 1965 war and if you ask him about giving away kashmir he or she will resolutely say “NO” and want the Indian Army to safeguard his/her motherland.. Just this generation of 40,50,60 something of Indians understand feelings of crying pakistanis about kashmir and tolerates it ..Not the younger Indian generation which is nearly 9 to 10 times of pakistan young generation…In any comparison ( 1:10 ) will be a daunting task for pakistan .. Just think about the future for once.. India has lot of cards to play and pakistan only one card ( local sunni kashmiris who lost their kith and kin in the violence of the last decade) .India also can use Pakistan’s favourite tactic of cheating (no LeT terrorist in Pak ,no proof for 26/11 etc) which in equivalence the option of using water to slowly and selectively reroute to India which India never has done nor will do …But just as a fear Card to use against PakMIl if worst case scenario was presented to India.Recommend

  • Jul 5, 2011 - 6:38PM

    Mr Bangash. The caption to your picture leads one to think that you are an Academic at keble college, oxford university, while my research indicates you are reading for a D.Phil in History. I’m not sure why the caption was ambiguous. Secondly, what can i expect from a Muslim who has converted to Christianity? A self-hating Pakistani is what you are. If Pakistan had not got the part of Kashmir freed from Indian occupation, we would have lost most of our waters, including the feeder rivers to the Indus. Pakistan would have been a wasteland, a dessert. No economic miracle would have happened, as you claim. Secondly, the Indian army was the aggressor in all the cases you mentioned, be it kashmir, hyderabad, junagadh, filor, gurdaspur and ferozepur. The army stepped in and liberated Kashmir. What would you have done, let the Indians come and occupy more land? Maybe we could have all squeezed into the deserts of Baluchistan and achieved our economic miracle there? You speak about the Army’s enormous budget, yet are either too ignorant or sloppy to know that the Pakistan state generates taxes alone of some 20-22 billion dollars while the army budget is less than 3 billion dollars, and much of it is self financed through the army’s own commercial and industrial projects. Nowhere near half of the budget, as you erroneously claim. Recommend

  • Avanti
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:46PM

    India has nuclear bombs, but it has an even more powerful bomb that can destroy Pakistan ever so slowly and Pakistan won’t even feel it.

    It is the K-bomb. India just has to sit and watch. Pakistan’s east is already gone. The west is waiting in the wings.

    Come on Pakistani brothers! When will this get into your heads? The whole world can see it. Why can’t you?

    Shut down everything and fix the damn economy. Then talk about Kashmir and the world will listen and respect your views.Recommend

  • M. Salim
    Jul 5, 2011 - 6:58PM

    why fight for something that was never a part of Pakistan. How about Bangladesh that was a majority province of Pakistan and lost within 25 years of independence due to West Pakistan’s dominance. How about caring for the 3 Million Biharis (Pakistani nationals) living in camps in Bangladesh versus the 2 million Kashmiris living in their own country India. Recommend

  • Menon
    Jul 5, 2011 - 7:47PM

    @abrar:

    Shouldn’t you be more concerned about oppression in your own country. In India there are two types of muslims, those who have joined India and a minority that is longing to be in Pakistan. When Pakistan has a semblance of seculairism as India (even as it is very little in Pakistani minds), step up to the podium, we will have a discussion, until then, no Pakistani has the right to talk about opression in any part of the world, you have zero credibility.

    If you like hearing yourself talk, continue to talk to yourselves to your hearts content. No one else is listening.Recommend

  • Menon
    Jul 5, 2011 - 7:53PM

    @Imran:

    Why don’t start with promises you made to the US in the aftermath of 9/11 for which you took billions of dollars?

    Indeed, Kashmir has muslims, US has muslims, Germany has muslims, UK has muslims, Turkey has muslims, doe that mean all of them are now part of Pakistan?Recommend

  • Sonam Shyam
    Jul 5, 2011 - 8:19PM

    The author has been extremely pragmatic when he highlights Pakistan’s perils in supporting the Kashmir cause. I had mentioned in my last post that Kashmir is an emotive issue for both India and Pakistan and the responses of bloggers to the above article are dipped in sheer sentiments. When are we going get realistic about Kashmir and other problems plaguing South Asia? Let us examine some very important facts with our minds firmly switched on;

    Firstly, Pakistan tried to capture Kashmir by force and three and a half wars later not an inch of Kashmir landscape under Indian control has been altered. Therefore the cross section of Pakistan diaspora has to understand once and for all that there is no military solution to the problem.

    Secondly Pakistan tried the proxy war in Indian Kashmir in 1989 by sending trained armed insurgents in to the valley. Initially it met with some degree of success and it seemed that Nizam-e-Mustafa was just round the corner in Kashmir. But more than two decades and thousands of civilian and security forces causalities later, Kashmir is still firmly under Indian control. Therefore there is also no solution to Kashmir problem by sending Jihadis in to the valley.

    Thirdly, the UN resolutions on Kashmir are totally irrelevant and even the UN has itself dropped Kashmir from its agenda for all practical purposes. Therefore there is no point of talking about UN resolutions any more. Why India does not allow self determination to Kashmiris? For the same reason why Pakistan will never allow self determination to Baloch people. No body wants to open an unnecessary Pandora’s Box.

    Fourthly, we must think logically as to what can be a pragmatic and a feasible solution to the Kashmir problem. Peace will be most appreciated by the Kashmiris themselves on both sides of the LOC. If Pakistan keeps on treating Kashmir as a part of unfinished agenda of Partition then we will go nowhere. If India keeps treating Kashmir as a law and order problem then again we are going to go no where. Both the sides have to climb down from their stated positions and negotiate a working solution. As I said before, accepting the LOC as a border is the best solution.

    Lastly, I am reminded of a conversation I had with a Muslim friend in my college days about the Kashmir problem. That friend told me that Kashmir is more important for Indian Muslims than to the Hindus. When I probed further, the friend told me that Indian Muslims who rejected the idea of Pakistan and chose to remain in India had to suffer tremendous insecurity on account of suspicions from the Hindu community, post partition. Over the years those suspicions have come down drastically particularly among the youth and Muslims are more confident in modern India. Therefore my friend argued that if Kashmir were to get independent or accedes to Pakistan, then it will spell doomsday for the Indian Muslims since Hindus will treat it as another partition of India on religious lines. Therefore Indian Muslims will never allow the status of Indian Kashmir to be altered on religious lines. Recommend

  • rehmat
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:12PM

    @Chengez K:
    Hussain drew some paintings of Indian goddesses that were far more blasphemous than the Danish cartoons. There were no death threats against him. But he was sued under existing Indian laws. HEdid not want to face those court cases and hence left the country. There are more than enough highly successful Muslims living in India in every field be it acting, singing, classical music, business, cricket, politics. SO this unnecessarry hat against ‘Hindu banias’ is unwarranted.Recommend

  • Frank
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:17PM

    The Pakistani state’s subservience to the Americans after 9/11 provoked an absolutely devastating reaction in the form of the Pakistani Taliban, and we continue to suffer from this devastation. Now just imagine what kind of a reaction would be provoked by a Pakistani government stabbing the Kashmiris in the back and making a deal with our arch enemy India. Something that Pakistani liberals would do well to ponder over. Recommend

  • Menon
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:43PM

    @Sandeep:

    How did Nehru screw over Pakistan? First, The UN resolution on plebiscitehad one condition, i.e., Pakistan must vacate PoK which Pakistan never did. Second, After the Bangladesh war, Pakistan gave up the idea of plebescite becuase they never left PoK. Third, Pakistan sent armed insurgents to Kashmir which prompted the King to ask for help, which Mountbatten did. Before sending in the troops, Mountbatten and Nehru sent V.K. Krishna Menon to Kashmir, to get the asecnsion papers, which the King did.

    Please educate me which part in this Nehru screwed Pakistan. I on the other hand and many others like me Nehru actually screwed India by accomaodating Pakistan too much and bringing the matter in front of UN and by signing the peace treatu withou Pakistan vacating PoK.

    Baluchistan never wanted to be part of Pakistan and wanted remain with India. Look up frontier Gandhi on Wiki.

    Just because mughals converted hindus of Kashmir by force and threats and Pakistan forcing out Pandits, Hindus and Sikhs using terror doesn’t give Pakistan to claim any right over Kashmir.

    Sandeep, you need to learn lot more about our history and if you do, you will also find out that Kashmir have been an integral part of India from Vedic period.
    Sandeep, you need to learn bit more about the history of India. We gave up Pakistan as price for standing united against invaders in the past and let us not go down that path ever again.Recommend

  • sandeep limaye
    Jul 5, 2011 - 9:45PM

    dear Pakistani friends, you say Kashmir belongs to you and we say whole of Pakistan belongs to India and you people will join India sooner or later. if you will motivate and send people in Kashmir to shed our blood then we will buy your people and shed blood of yours in Baluchistan and other places. please stop this mindless game sit with us win our hearts and take all of us than only Kashmir else we will both end fighting and the whole world will laugh at us. Recommend

  • Hedgefunder
    Jul 5, 2011 - 10:34PM

    @Frank:
    I did not realise that the “Liberals” still existed in today’s Pakistan!!! I thought they were extinct or converted thru Duress, Intimidation or whatever method the fundamentalist and their well trained sheeps trained in Ivy league Madrassas decided upon!!!
    The only Pakistani Liberals that i know have already abandoned the Country for UK, Canada, New Zealand…. etc
    I know that most of my friends are already out with their families as Life was getting to become ridiculous on daily basis !! I am still working on getting another one out to Canada by september !!
    These are the really educated class, whose assistance is seriously required in Pakistan today to turn around this nation, however they chose the safer option to reside elsewhere!!!
    Pakistan will keep playing same tune called “Kashmir” and India will keep listening until such time that this is no longer an issue to be discussed by the parties concerned, as Pakistan will have far bigger and more immediate issues to deal with in order to maintain itself in its present form !! let alone worry about an disputed territory, of which they gave away a chunk of land to the chiinese without anyone’s permission, including the very people whose land it is !!!Recommend

  • sandeep limaye
    Jul 5, 2011 - 10:34PM

    my comment is awaiting moderation and other people are commenting on my comments how ridiculous Recommend

  • LOL
    Jul 5, 2011 - 10:55PM

    @Menon:

    Your argument in favour of Nehru is as duplicitous as the conduct of Mr. Nehru himself. Its irrelevant whether Pakistan sent in or did not sent in armed insurgents into Kashmir. Its irrelevant whether the Maharaja acceded to India because of that or he already had intended to do so inspite.

    Whats relevant is that Kashmiris were denied the right to choose. They were denied their future. Whats worse is as Nehru sent in his forces he promised them exactly that: Their right of self-determination. But of course it was only a façade. He betrayed them as soon as he felt he had gained the upper hand, in 1953.

    You see Mr. Menon, it didn’t take Pakistan to build-up troops in Kashmir for Mr. Nehru to betray. Pakistan had in fact withdrawn the tribesmen and ensured a cessation of fighting in 1949. Nor did take 1971 to happen for him to betray them. He betrayed as soon as he knew he could.

    It’s simple really, in Balochistan Pakistan did not promise a plebiscite, nor do we ask for one. Today, Kashmiris yearn for their right of self-determination to be respected.

    Pity the world we live in where India can deny Kashmiris this basic right, yet still continue to be called a democracy. Recommend

  • Mahmood Saeed
    Jul 5, 2011 - 11:34PM

    Dumb article indeed And silly too. No logic in any of the profound statements.

    Yes, much has changed but all of it to further screw Pakistan.
    Kashmir and water in Pakistan’s rivers is the what an ideal solution should be about. With Bharat continuing to sabotage Indus Basin Treaty, like much else, Pakistan has to urgently address the Kashmir problem or else there will be little of the subcontinent left.

    @VINOD:

    It was not Jinnah who made Pakistan. It was your Nehru and his alter ego Patel who brought the work of the Cabinet Mission to nought. And, they, alongwith Azad, thought Pakistan would collapse within a short time. So dear half brother, indeed Bharatis are from mostly the same stock as Pakistanis but the latter have a happie and large hearted disposition.Recommend

  • Farhan Zaheer
    Jul 6, 2011 - 3:02AM

    The article is right when it says that we must first look into our state of affairs. It is no secret that Pakistan’s policy to liberate Kashmir through arms has been badly failed in last 20 years.

    The writer is also right that if Pakistan did not waste its resources on Kashmir wars, we would have been economically far ahead from India. Our exports with $24 billion this year is one-eight of Indian exports of $200 billion. Pakistan with small and better educated population should have been crossed $50 billion exports by now.

    Today, Pakistan is forced to tackle terrorism first, the same crop that we sowed 30 years back in Soviet War and Kashmir Jihad in 80s and 90s.

    Today, we have started realising how badly we have shaken from inside by suppressing the legitimate voices of Bengalis and Balochs.

    We have always suppressed the voice of democracy and the result is here that people from every corner of country demanding their provincial autonomy and rights. Recommend

  • Sandeep
    Jul 6, 2011 - 3:49AM

    @Menon: I am keenly aware of Indian history. I am aware that a large part of our culture is due to Mughals: cuisine, architecture, etc. Even rupee was invented by Sher Shah (OK he wasnt a mughal, but he was a Muslim ruler) Hindustani music: first patronized by Mughal nobles. Kathak: same deal. Even the administrative system (tehsils etc) was started by Mughals and improved upon by the East India Company.

    People like you in India however only remember the bad stuff the Mughals did.You enjoy the Taj Mahal but you prefer to call it Tejomalya :-)

    Its interesting to contrast this with say, British history. They revere Henry the 8th as one of their greatest kings. But he also had some 7-8 wives, was such a pig he basically died of overeating, AND he executed some 200,000 people. British however only look at the good stuff he did. Why can’t Indians and Pakistanis do the same??

    So this is turning into a history lesson, but its important for us to know our history before we plan our future.Recommend

  • Sandeep
    Jul 6, 2011 - 4:32AM

    @Mahmood
    My understanding of Jinnah’s desire for Pakistan is that he was worried a Hindu majority would overwhelm a Muslim minority in a united India. It was a valid concern then. But today if you add up Indian Muslims + Bangladeshi Muslims + Pakistan they would not exactly be a tiny minority.

    On another topic, I was reading about the poet Iqbal’s biography…it was interesting to me that when he was a professor at Lahore university in his 20s he wrote “Saare jahan se accha Hindustan hamara”. Then he left for London and came back convinced of the need for Pakistan. Likewise for Jinnah, his stay in London seems to have convinced him of the need for a separate homeland.

    Europe at that time (in between the wars) was heavily influenced by super-nationalistic ideas: homelands for the Germans, Japanese, Jews etc.

    In a way, the idea of separate homelands for people is a very European idea. If you look at Middle-eastern (from the Persian empire of Cyrus II to Ottoman) or South asian empires (from Ashoka to the Mughals to the Marathas/Sikhs), they were ALWAYS multi-ethnic and multi-religious.Recommend

  • Qasim
    Jul 6, 2011 - 4:45AM

    Pakistan… This is not only a name of a country, it is a country with 180 mn people. And i do not understand why indian esablishment do not think about this fact. It has created fourty four counselates near the Pakistani border in Afghanistan only to destabilize Pakistan. It is pouring millions of rupees into Baluchistan everyday. Indian establishment still after 64 years of existence have not yet recognized Pakistan as an independant country. so its foul play continues.
    What i must appreciate about India is this that, atleast its establishment and Politicians are sincere to their country. They succeeded in breaking the Punjab apart in 1947, keeping all the areas linking to Kashmir. They succeeded in retaining the Jammu Kashmir by approaching UN. They succeeded in breaking Pakistan using makti Bahni in 1971. They somehow achieved what the wanted in Kargil, and now they are after Baluchistan.
    I don’t know how, but Indian establishment is quite intelligent in fooling Pakistan all the way.
    On the other hand Pakistan only has two success stories, getting Azad Kashmir back in 1948, and war of 1965. After that Pakistani establishment got tired.
    And about our Politicians, they are even helping indian establishment in achieving their goals. The reason for saying this is, because they are doing their level best to keep this nation illiterate. So on the whole our establishment and politicians are not sincere to the country.
    Pakistan is not only being played by India these days, but also bu UAE. UAE is also spending millions of rupees in Baluchistan just for its survival. He knows that the day, Gawadar is developed, it is doomed.
    Pakistan due to the above factors is suffering, and as a result 180 mn people are suffering. Hundreds of people die everyday because of the fact that one country does not accept us, and the other do not want us to see as a developed nation. Wish they know the importance of one life. Recommend

  • Samir
    Jul 6, 2011 - 6:49AM

    @ LOL – Are we prepared to give up AJK for a plebiscite too? I doubt it so it’s best to stay quiet and deal with our own issues.Recommend

  • Khurdra
    Jul 6, 2011 - 7:57AM

    @Kasim, Lahore:
    Even if you have claimed so then It doesn’t mean that we have to believe in you beiing not an IndianRecommend

  • agthagola
    Jul 6, 2011 - 8:08AM

    I think the author of this article is trying to give false hope to indians that you keep holding kashmir and there are some pakikstanis who will back you.
    The fact is this author is not helping indians and just pulling them towards a ditch. Nehru’s blunder of occupying kashmir resulted in Pakistan being and thermonuclear power. If Nehru had not done that stupidity and resolved the kashmir issue by now Pakistan would have a a small setelite of inda. However indians have made Pakistan a nuclear superpower. Being the thermonuclear power Pakistan is destinied to lead the Muslim world in future. There is no running away from that. Leaders like Zardari will be eleminated by vote power.

    india still has time to reverse the stupid course it is going on. Let me put a hypthetical question. If after the withdrawal of Christian west from Afghanistan what will stop battle hardened Mujahideen to movein hundreds and thousands into kashmir and start a liberation Jehad???? What india will do about it???? Attack Pakistan??? No way. Pakistan can smoke and evaporate inida in few hours if inida try to attac. Short sighted indians should not be decieved by ariticle like this which is written by an inexperienced bolager (who will understand this issue when he will grow a bit). The only course of action for india in kashmir is to “let Kashmir go”

    If an armed jehad will restart in Kashmir india will not be able to control it and most likley it will not be confined to Kashmir instead it will have potential to spread elsewhere in india. I am wellwisher of india and will recommend to be sensable or circumstances will make them sensable. Recommend

  • Hira
    Jul 6, 2011 - 8:52AM

    Kashmir has never been a part of India and never will. Just because a crazy Hindu maharaja handed over the valley to India doesn’t mean that it can silence the overwhelming majority of people who want to join Pakistan. That is why it is so sacred of holding a plebiscite in the valley and has made it the most militarized region in the world with draconian laws like the Armed Forces Special Powers Act.

    More than a 100 Kashmiris were killed off in the occupied valley by Indian security forces just last summer and even RAW could not prove any Pakistani involvement in the protests, so the Kashmiri freedom movement is alive and kicking.

    Lastly, those wonderful people who are pointing fingers at Pakistani Kashmir would do well to answer the reports by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch about the condition in the occupied valley. P.S this article on the horrible state in Indian Held Kashmir is by an Indian journalist.

    http://www.dawn.com/2011/06/17/i-thought-it-was-the-end-of-the-world.htmlRecommend

  • Charles
    Jul 6, 2011 - 9:10AM

    This is from Carlotta Gill’s piece in NY Times. Pakistan has 12,000 to 14,000 fully trained Kashmiri fighters, scattered throughout various camps in Pakistan, and is holding them in reserve to use if needed in a war against India.Yet Pakistan has been losing the fight for Kashmir, and most Kashmiris now want independence and not to be part of Pakistan or IndiaRecommend

  • Frank
    Jul 6, 2011 - 9:53AM

    Hedgefunder

    Pakistan will keep playing same tune
    called “Kashmir” and India will keep
    listening until such time that this is
    no longer an issue to be discussed by
    the parties concerned, as Pakistan
    will have far bigger and more
    immediate issues to deal with in order
    to maintain itself in its present form

    We’ll see if you’re still so sanguine when the stone-pelting starts again and pictures of Indian occupation forces in Kashmir shooting at kids are plastered all over the world’s media.Recommend

  • Sandeep
    Jul 6, 2011 - 10:08AM

    @agthagola: I would love to see peace between India and Pakistan. My previous posts have indicated that.

    However I can assure you that if you send say, 100,000 “battle-hardened militants” to Kashmir, we have 100,001 bullets to spill their brains out on Indian soil.

    We’re on our way up and nobody can stop us. Join us if you want and uplift your life. If you have issues,negotiate like a civilized person: I can accept.Recommend

  • vickram
    Jul 6, 2011 - 11:05AM

    @LOL:

    Relevant: — Pakistan did invade and muddied the waters.

    — The Maharaja did sign the instrument of accession to India. Matter ends there. There will be no plebiscite ever in Kashmir.

    As regards Kashmiris right to choose, we believe that, Kashmiris are being prodded, indoctrinated and provoked by Pakistan to be anti-India. Kashmiris are just reading the lines scripted by Pakistan. Left to themselves, Kashmiris would have understood the benefits of staying with a large country.

    If Pakistan stops their malicious propaganda, based on religious lines, Kashmiris would see some sense in living with the rest of the country now enjoying an economic boom.

    If Kashmiris look at Pakistan as the ideal country, it speaks volumes about their IQ and state of mind. India naturally believes they are misguided, the same way a mother would look at her mentally deficient child.

    For your information, you did not promise plebiscite in Balochistan.

    But the fact is, in Balochistan, they are killing punjabis and driving the rest of non- Balochis out. Don’t you think they are looking for the right to choose in Pakistan?Recommend

  • Jul 6, 2011 - 11:40AM

    So much hate and talk of finishing of the other . With these types of mindsets i think i should become a arms dealer . Builders make money when civilizations grow and vultures make money when civilizations collapse it looks like its time for the vultures to continue making money. Recommend

  • Iqbal Rafiq
    Jul 6, 2011 - 12:29PM

    Janab Bangash,

    You are blaming Kashmir for Pakistan’s tortured history and yet want
    Pakstan to only temporarily shelf its Kashmir ambition.

    Tortured logic it may seem. And so do made up facts.

    A more interesting story this morning was:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/world/asia/05pakistan.html

    Khuda HafizRecommend

  • Frank
    Jul 6, 2011 - 12:43PM

    Sandeep

    We’re on our way up and nobody can
    stop us. Join us if you want and
    uplift your life.

    I can’t decide whether your delusions of grandeur are comical or tragical. Recommend

  • Tony Singh
    Jul 6, 2011 - 1:01PM

    @Frank
    We’ll see if you’re still so sanguine when the stone-pelting starts again and pictures of Indian occupation forces in Kashmir shooting at kids are plastered all over the world’s media
    Since when did PTV become “world media”?
    Kashmir issue cannot be seen in isolation with Partition of south Asia..The people who suffered most the burnt of partition were muslims who were forced to migrate to Pakistan and Hindus and Sikhs who were forced to migrate to India.Were these people given right to vote if they wanted partition? The answer is a clear no. Then why do muslims of Kashmir should have those rights. Afterall Kashmir is also part and parcel of South Asian history. Why special rights only to them?
    Secondly going through the elections in so called AJK. it seems AJK is not Azad and there are only punjabis and sindhis in AJK but few Kashmiris. They have been ethnically cleansed. So first make AJK Azad from PAk yoke in real sense. Then comment.Recommend

  • Don
    Jul 6, 2011 - 4:42PM

    @agthagola. According to you the only solution to all problems faced by the muslim world is to have more muslims !! Taking it a step further, may be you also want them to be illiterates and poor. Please wake up to the reality. Numbers wont take you or muslim world anywhere. Prosperity will come only through education(including that of women), health care and employment for allRecommend

  • abhishek
    Jul 6, 2011 - 5:23PM

    @frank,one can say the same about pakistan’s delusions of taking kashmir.india is much better off economically than it was 12-13 yrs ago when militancy was at it’s peak.atleast be “frank” enuf to admit this fact.Recommend

  • Easy
    Jul 6, 2011 - 5:55PM

    @Tony Singh:

    I see you argue that the atrocities committed by India in Kashmir are only a hoax perpetuated by PTV. Where are you from? Delusion Ville?

    And by the way, during partition provinces did get to vote which country they wanted to be a part of. If the people hadn’t wanted partition they would have voted for India.

    The right of self-determination is a right of every human. You promised Kashmiris this right as you sent in troops. But of course you abjectly betrayed them. They’re only asking for this right to be respected.

    it seems AJK is not Azad and there are only punjabis and sindhis in AJK but few Kashmiris.

    Where did you get this ludicrous news from? The Onion???Recommend

  • bendintheriver
    Jul 6, 2011 - 6:10PM

    @Mir Gh. Rasool:
    You just exaggerate. Millions killed by Indian army. One million is 1000000…so by millions you would mean atleast 2000000. Wow!…Drink more kehwa and add more millions.Recommend

  • bendintheriver
    Jul 6, 2011 - 6:11PM

    @Chengez K:
    If sir you would trace your geneology, may be you will find a Baniya as your great-great-grandfather. The religion changes, the food habits too, the intelligence quotient goes down, but the genes remain.Recommend

  • Ahmed
    Jul 6, 2011 - 6:14PM

    “why would the Kashmiris want to join Pakistan now?”

    Possibly to avoid living under the fear that their daughters can get raped and their sons killed in their own homes?

    Possibly to avoid being spat and sworn at by Indian soldiers on a daily basis knowing they can’t even voice an opinion in return.

    Or maybe because they want to go to a mosque or pray without looking over the shoulder.

    But really, they would do it a thousand times over because they want to be free. As independence, Mr Bangash, I feel is something you and I take for granted every morning we wake up.Recommend

  • Peace On Earth
    Jul 6, 2011 - 9:17PM

    If Pakistan cannot take care of her own people, what makes people think they will be capable of incorporating Kahsmiris?

    The best solution is total independence of Kashmir without Pakistani or Indian influence. We all know how Pakistani meddling has worked out (e.g. Taliban in Afghanistan).Recommend

  • Bilal
    Jul 6, 2011 - 9:47PM

    Mr. Yaqoob Khan Bangash, I think we are missing the basic point here…its a simple matter of right or wrong…..Indian occupation of Kashmir is wrong…Why dont India let the Kahmiris decide…Let there be a fair election under UN supervision….Let the Kashmiris say Yes/no to Pakistan, India or independent state…..Its not about political, financial, military problems…Its about basic human rights….Unless educated people like yourself, me and many others like us dont take it as right or wrong thing…..its never gonna settle. PeaceRecommend

  • Ali Fahad
    Jul 6, 2011 - 10:00PM

    The article doesnt deserve a place in Express Tribune…low on facts and high on vested interests…Seems to be inspired by some vested interests…Two thumbs down…!!!Recommend

  • pankaj
    Jul 6, 2011 - 11:28PM

    @agthagola

    Pakistan has tried EVERY trick in the book to take Kashmir for the last 63 years.But it has failed

    You said that after the withdrawl of US forces ALL militants and Pakistan army will together liberate Kashmir .

    My answer is that after 1989 when Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan and TILL 9/11 all these militants have already tried their level best and FAILED

    Do you remember Kargil

    How Indian army won and Pakistan army lost .That was a direct face to face battle isnt itRecommend

  • Sandeep
    Jul 7, 2011 - 3:06AM

    @Frank
    You can say I’m being delusional, that’s OK I have a thick skin and I’ve been called worse :-)

    However the Pakistani-American Business Association recently released a study which found that open trade between Pakistan and India would create $40B of wealth. Even if half of that went to Pakistan that is more than the aid you are getting from USA today. Not to mention the number of jobs it would create in Pakistan. Think about that for a little bit.

    These are your own people that are saying this, I have met them (some are devout Muslims BTW) Recommend

  • Ibu
    Jul 7, 2011 - 5:35AM

    A brilliant article indeed.In the first glance as an Indian I am tempted to clap over it however without going into the typical south Asian jingoism I would like to say the author indeed gives us a few points to ponder.And what i realise:

    10 years ago Kashmiris wanted to be a part of Pakistan however today that is negligible they want a greater sense of autonomy rather than be with India or Pakistan.

    2.The second most important point is the chaotic house in pakistan today.I being an Indian am no authority on the internal tumult of Pakistan but its sad that so many people are being killed everyday.

    3.Irrespective of what a few hate mongerers say i have always held that a stronger Pakistan is always a better option for India.There are many reasons for this:

    a) Benefit of trade ties
    b) People say Pakistan is hotbed of anti Indian propaganda.So if instead of 1 Pakistan if we have 5 Pakistan fighting each other and also India then South Asian people will suffer.

    Hence for India’s own benefit we would want a stronger stable Pakistan wherein the anti Indian elements would slowly reconcile to the idea of India as a peaceful nation.

    4.Regarding Afghanistan as someone has pointed out I would like to say that Islam as a idelogy (not religon) is used when people want their own interets.There is no greater Islam happiness agenda if that would have been the case then in Pakistan people would not have killed each other.

    My point in saying this is that it all depends on the powerplays of international polity if the Afghanistan government feels its interests are greater served with India then it will join India else join Pakistan if it feels Pakistan serves its needs better.

    We should always separate religon which is our way of connecting with God from international affairs and politics.I am sure neither Allah nor other god would approve of the killings and the politics that are played in his name today ,

    Clash of Civilisation is a well concoted lies by people across all sections who wanted benefit.If that wouldnt have been the case then Bin Laden’s younger brother would not have owned a big penthouse in Miami.

    1.Recommend

  • Akhil
    Jul 7, 2011 - 6:26AM

    The author needn’t worry about Indian muslims. Its foolhardy to think that Pakistan is the protector of Indian muslims, when it can’t even protect its own citizens on a day-to-day basis. As to the moral rightness of international relations, look who’s talking ! Recommend

  • Hira
    Jul 7, 2011 - 9:40AM

    Let’s get a few things clear here. No one has the right to lecture Pakistan about not protecting its citizens when more than a 1,000 people mostly Indian Muslims were killed in the Gujarat pogrom with the direct blessing of the Chief Minister Narendra Modi.

    What is more, recently all the record related to the incident was destroyed so of course Indian Muslims will never get any justice out of it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13970748

    The problem with India is that it has never accepted Muslims in the sub-continent. India discriminates against its own Indian Muslims, see this link

    http://pay.hindu.com/ebook%20-%20ebfl20061215part1.pdf

    It has never accepted the partition and can only use force to try to suppress the freedom movement in Occupied Kashmir.

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/jammu-and-kashmir-hundreds-held-each-year-without-charge-or-trial-2011-03-21

    Biggest democracy in the world indeed!Recommend

  • Ahmer Ali
    Jul 7, 2011 - 9:51AM

    Assalam-o-Allaikum Warahmatullah.Kashmir is the one and only bridge of for permanent,strong and stable friendship and relativity between India and Pakistan and this is much the best solution of Kashmir but for this purpose first India must withdraw all its brutal and cruel forces from Kashmir and hand over Kashmir to UN peace-keeping force without any interference by Indian and Pakistani both governments in any forms and manifestations till the plebiscite.Recommend

  • nasir
    Jul 7, 2011 - 12:45PM

    A very sensible and rational article. It is in the intrest of both nations to accept status quo over Kashmir and look forward towards peace and progress. Kashmiris should also pay heed to sensible voices and abstain from violence. Violence only begets violence!Recommend

  • Bitter Pill
    Jul 7, 2011 - 10:40PM

    Kashmiri doesn’t just mean Muslims in the Kashmir valley, they include Hindu Pandits from the valley, Hindu Jammu & Buddhist Ladakh… apart from the Muslims of the valley , the rest dont want Azadi from India… Kashmir problem cannot just be a muslim problem…. views of the other communities have to be taken into consideration…. No minority in their right mind would want to live in a Muslim majority country….Recommend

  • Jul 8, 2011 - 12:35PM

    Usual discussions!!!!
    But overall do keep in mind

    In 1948 there was no LOC or Indian troops to stop Pakistan from crossing over.Once they did, Pakistan could not take the most important areas and has not taken any since.
    India too has nukes and Pak nukes did not help Pakistan in Kargil!
    Armed action has only brought misery o Kashmir valley and Pakistan.Rest of India is least affected by it and in fact India has grown fastest over last 1 years while Pakistan and Valley have only gone backwards.
    So basically forget the military option
    UN resolution on plebiscite:Only enforceable if Pakistan withdraws from Kashmir areas held by it. Pakistan has never done nor offered to withdraw
    Disputed area changed by Pakistan ceding parts of Kashmir to China.

    Disturbance in Kashmir are only limited to Srinagar and surrounding areas.The Buddhists,Ladakhis,Pandits,Gujjars,Dogras of Ladakh,Kargil,Jammu,etc etc have nothing to do with it
    Pakistan never highlights that apart from Srinagar valley areas,all other parts of Jammu and Kashmir with India are absolutely for India.

    Recommend

  • Ramkesh
    Jul 8, 2011 - 9:17PM

    @Chengez K: Brother better change ur opinion, or else both of us will collapse. If both Pakistan and India wants to rise and prosper, stop this dirty war and dirty sentiments
    or else, our children will pay the price. Our dirty politician (both) has kept this problem alive to gain their part. We the new generation has to solve this issue and be like brothers and live happily. I am a Hindu, I have three best friends Abdul Mannan, Mustaque Ahmed and Ashraf Hussain. We are not related by blood but by the heart and always remember, the bond of the heart is the strongest.

    Recommend

  • Jul 9, 2011 - 5:23PM

    I am willing to Forget Kashmir given that you can guarantee peace with India. Period.
    Also, can you guarantee the constant flow of our rivers (most of which flow from Kashmir?)

    Recommend

  • agthagola
    Jul 9, 2011 - 11:06PM

    @Hindu Indian:
    Regarding Kargil, Pakistan called back the 313 Mujahideen , indians were unable to dislodge them after several days. I think india still has time to think rationally and get out of kashmir and I gurantte relations between india and Pakistan will normalize and PK will be the best baking of india. However if india continue it stupidity then “Muslims who have long history of fighting against odds and winnging the battles” This was when Muslims used to a minority in the world several hundreds years ago, now Muslims are majority and growing fast. My prediction is “If india does not get into a rational attitude and let kashmir go, then india will paint itself as target. My forefathers were Rajput fighters, as 99% of Pakistani Muslims are converted from Hindusim, my forfathers also converted. I have a sympathetic corner for india because of my ancestory.

    Recommend

  • agthagola
    Jul 9, 2011 - 11:12PM

    @narayana murthy:
    You like all the ill wishers of PAKISTAN have been predicting end of Pakistan since its birth. Duirng the time these ill wishers were predicting PK collapse, PK became a thermonuclear power and now can smoke india and evaporate india in 45 minutes. If you do not believe me then ask your stupid generals to try any mischief against Pakistan.

    Recommend

  • Mahmood Saeed
    Jul 9, 2011 - 11:56PM

    @Umair:

    Can Bharat be trusted? Many promises with Pakistan and the Kashmiris have been flouted since 1947. Think about it and draw a list beginning with the 1948 promise via Attlee to hold plebiscite soonest. It makes you squirm.

    We should keep the issue alive and burning like China’s model of dealing with Taiwan. One day when the US power will have waned sufficiently in Chinese judgment, China will take Taiwan back. Pakistan and Pakistanis should work hard, strengthen themselves and wait for as long as it takes.

    If the water situation is not resolved, independentally of Kashmir, there will be no stopping an end to the subcontinent being something other than we know it today.

    Recommend

  • Hedgefunder
    Jul 10, 2011 - 12:16AM

    @Umair:
    Are we speaking on behalf of Land of Pure ?? Better get some approvals before making such comments as, offering something that has been your core policy to defend for last 60 years !!!
    I would be careful, as people have been lost for lot less than these kind of remarks in your country !!!!

    Recommend

  • Hedgefunder
    Jul 10, 2011 - 1:10AM

    @agthagola:
    Don’t make me laugh !! My 12 yrs old son has more apptitude and knowledge of reality and actual History !!
    You really need to do some home work on the BS, you are throwing across !!
    Just look around yourself and the surroundings and if you can not grasp the reality !
    Then you really need help !!

    Recommend

  • Hedgefunder
    Jul 10, 2011 - 1:51AM

    @Mahmood Saeed:
    Take one step at a time , focus on putting your house in order first, before dreaming about your Aspirations, as this is going to be like dream very soon in your current condition !!
    So i suggest you take it bit easy and deal with what’s in front of your face before worrying about next 10 yards !!!

    Recommend

  • mussarat Hussain
    Jul 10, 2011 - 2:05AM

    We don’t need Kashmir at the cost of Pakistan. We were already broken into two pieces in 1971 while Terrorism is now breaking pakistan into some more segments.

    You want Pakistan to be broken further?, what a silly demand of Kashmir.

    Quaid never demanded that type of annexation of Kashmir into Pakistan.

    Mussarat

    Recommend

  • VASAN
    Jul 11, 2011 - 6:40AM

    Agathagola : Before your “mania”stan, remember it was all Hindu kingdoms under the AkandBharat

    Recommend

  • Jul 11, 2011 - 7:26AM

    @agthagola: Why open your eyes when you get sweet dreams while asleep

    Recommend

More in Pakistan