Pakistan was not formed as an Islamic nation. It was instead envisioned as a state designed to provide economic stability and opportunity to Muslims who, post-Partition, would otherwise have found themselves a minority in a predominantly Hindu nation. A state founded for Muslims is by no means the same as an Islamic state. Adding further to this confusion is the central question, what form of Islam was Pakistan meant to follow? Important also to remember is that it was not till 1956 that Pakistan was officially renamed the ‘Islamic Republic of Pakistan’.
Time and again, Pakistan’s religious identity has been reinforced through military dictators such as Ayub Khan and Ziaul Haq. Ayub Khan strived to tie Pakistan to a religious identity through provisions in the First Amendment that clearly stated: “No law shall be repugnant to the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah.” Ziaul Haq ensured this was so in every aspect of daily life. Alienating moderate Islam and bringing a Wahabi interpretation into the public sphere, Zia changed Pakistan forever. An ideology so deeply rooted in the social fabric of Pakistan, it is not a surprise then that the country continues to struggle with an identity crisis 62 years later.
Adding to this crisis is the serious ‘anti-India’ paranoia that is embedded in our national history and social identity. At the most basic level, this is reinforced through the Pakistan Studies curriculum that teaches students little about Indian leaders and paints Muslim leaders as subjecting Pakistan to first an Islamic identity and then a nationalistic one. Such educational initiatives have given birth to a generation of Pakistanis marked with a politicised understanding of Islam and brainwashed by a strong anti-India rhetoric.
However, this generation is different. This is the first generation of Pakistan that is brave enough to question its government, army and intelligence agencies and argue against the supposed ideals of its state. Two reasons owe to this shift.
Firstly, the elite and urban youth of Pakistan today is more global. Whether at home or abroad, Pakistanis are interacting with their Indian counterparts through social networks, educational institutions and initiatives such as Seeds of Peace and Aman ki Asha, that foster better understanding between the future leaders of the two countries. Initiatives such as these are crucial if a combined South Asian identity is to be created based on equality, respect and mutual understanding.
Secondly and more importantly, is that the mass youth of Pakistan believe that domestic jihadi movements are a critical threat to the state. The problem they perceive is domestic bred and not a foreign entity. Bad governance, a weak state and lack of national security amongst other daily grievances have led the youth to believe that being a patriotic Pakistani does not entail being anti-India. The military leaders and policymakers of tomorrow are ready to mark a shift from the India-centric leaders of yesterday and today.
An easing of visa restrictions on both sides is hopefully the first step in many more to come. At some level, it is not the tangible grievances that separate the two countries but rather the pride that comes with them. Only an engaged and enhanced partnership based on mutual respect between both countries can trigger a dialogue. From what it seems, a proactive and educated youth is the answer.
Published in The Express Tribune, October 21st, 2011.
COMMENTS (119)
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the writer is looking for RISHTA in secular community :P. Nutty artical with Masla headline and edited pic to grab attention. but your eye corner wrinkles may attract uUcLeS more than dudes :/
I could be considered more 'liberal' than the average Pakistani, but puhlease, all this "non-anti-India" generation is simply impractical nonsense. India is trying its best to tie a noose around Pakistan's neck, which is the reason most have an anti-India attitude. Pakistan doesn't need to ease visa restrictions for Indians, it needs to make them HARDER.
@Realist.: That is because most of the guys in Pakistan are busy visiting other kinds of web sites (per google) and spending time. Also the literacy rate is about 50% and the number of persons fluent in English is even less. With massive power cuts, there is even less scope for these folks to be spending time on the internet and engage in intellectual debate.
@Adeel Ahmed Ha Ha Ha you do your research first. If Muslims were not lving in peace in India then how do you explain that the Richest Muslim in the Indian Subcontinent is an Indian.Azim Premji's net worth is 10X that of the richest pakistani Muslim.Similarly the second and third richest Muslims from the region are again Indian Muslims. If i list the achievments of other Famous Indian Muslims in different fields it will just go on and on.Had India not be a conducice place for them to prosper would this have been possible? I guess by giving example of these Indian Muslims you will have a severe case of heartburn. Now. Go grab some ant-acid pills now.
@Ali: Portugese refused to giveup Goa so we had to invade and annexe it.Nizam of Hyderabad refused to join for his vested interest.we can't allow a princely state bang in the middle of India.. Sikkim held a referendum and 95% percent wanted to join India.. Now go and fly kite..
@Ali: A failed state like yours can be compared with North Korea..
@Usman: You keep guessing since you don't have 6th sense..India withdrew its veto in EU and it voted for Pakistan in UN (that one vote made the difference and was thanked by Pakistan's UN representative)..First get some brains dude..
@Zaki Khalid: "50 lakh Muslim immigrants did not get martyred "
50 lac muslims got martyred to martyr another 30 lacs in bangladesh 30 yrs later on.
Pakistan was created because we did not want to join the hindu extremist India Just Like Hyderabad,Goa and Sikkim did not want to join extremist India.
If India does well or bad, if minorities in India get rights or not
that is nothing to do with us. We invited muslims to join us in 1947 and millions did, from British Indian Army and Civil Service .
We dont compare ourselves to India . If I was Indians id took at china,and shut up
Pakistan Army saves Indians in Somalia, free Indian army soliders in Gilgit Yet all Indians see is their Bollywood lies that pakistan is poor and sponsors terrorism.
1) Even if Pakistan did not exist, Kashmiris would still strike back against India 2) Pakistan has less debt and less annual debt servicing as % of GDP and total than india
it is often that brothers are the worst of enemies,when once they turn out to be. bu once they do become brothers again,enemies dare not harm either.
Simple, basic, benign desire of every & every piece loving soul living on both sides of border. Neighbors have to live in piece if they want to progress and prosper. Other choice is to keep supporting arms factory round the world and keep vast majority of own people hungry illiterate and fighting on religion, color cast and creed. Who disagree with this dream??
i dont beleive in anti india thing but we should concentrate on ourselves and promoting our culture, identity, heroes and religion.....
Bit of a ludicrous article. Clearly there's a very small proportion in the upper class that holds this view. The most flawed premise of this so called non anti-India view, is that India is also ready for a new era of 'friendship'. You can only be friends with someone if they want to be your friend.
Its high time these people who hold this non 'anti-India' view realise that the ''heart of Pakistan'' (Kashmir, according to Jinnah) is under Indian occupation. First the Indians can hand over what belongs to us, then lets move forward and by all means forge a new South Asian identity.
Lets also not forget that India has been constantly and tirelessly been working to undermine Pakistani interests at every level. It will take a lot more than delusional young Pakistanis getting an epiphany that India now deserves a normality of ties.
And for the record, Pakistan was made as a homeland for the Muslims of the subcontinent. The least we can do is honour the sacrifices our ancestors made so we could live without oppression.
LOL! I wonder why everyone told me since grade school that Pakistan was made to get religious freedom
@Sajid: I am sorry to say that she is wrong. I yet have to come across face to face an enlightened new generation punjabi who is not anti Hindu( I apologize for using word punjabi). New generationi is blind follower of zia propaganda. But when you meet people from other are like sindh,balochistan, siraiki and KPK you may hear different voice.
i was shocked to read this article. the authour has totally denied the two nation theory which was the base of TEHREKE PAKISTAN. a country which was taken on the name of islam how can you deny it. islam was the key in two nation theory otherwise there are people belonging to different school of thoughts living in subcontinent, hindus ,sikhs and budhist to name a few. we are a totally different nation from india soscialy, culturaly and relegiously.have you forgotten objective resolution passed in 1949 which is base for our constitution. this is not something imposed on us by dictators but our identity. this school of thought depicted in this article is surely the result of our ignorance about our reality and the attitude of standing aloof of our religion. enlightened moderation does not mean that you put aside your values and run aimlessly behind others. islam is the only true religion in the world and we have to understand it and then follow its principles if we want to regain our glory. india is a country which has never accepted pakistan from heart and is always trying to get it weaker and weaker and for this using every mean on local and international forum. india is involved in the unrest in baluchistan and many other parts of country. good relation with india is benificial for both countries but for this india has to address all those issues which are cause of it, kashmir, and water distribution the most imortant. for AMAN KI AASHA they have t bring AMAN in kashmir.
The youngsters who like India do so for the culture depicted in Indian films. The truth is that Hindus hate Muslims and anything connected to Muslims. The people of Pakistan should be happy that they do not go through what Indian Muslims go through. Open up your eyes. There is more to life than cheap boyfriend-cum-friend and girlfriend-cum-classfellow culture you see in Indian media.
@Narayanan Muthusamy:
Please read my comment at the top of this page.
@All indian trolls
Lets start with the "amazing feats" done by india!
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/1984-riots-Why-nobody-noticed-Amitabh-Bachchan-spewing-venom-in-India/articleshow/10429011.cms
And note that this is your own source. The news is not from any Pakistani Newspaper or Channel. Its from Times of India. This is your reality. Yes our politicians are beggars but atleast we don't kill minorities to such a big extent in Pakistan.
And by the way, from partition, upto 10,000 hindu muslim riots alone have occured in india, now why isnt the baniya blood thirsty again?
@J Oberoi:
Dear, Hari Singh was not bobbing apples in indian-held Kashmir, that much is certain.
@Cynical:
Pakistan got a seat on the UNSC. Now who was yapping again?
@LUV PAK:
I have done A/O levels, and my viewpoint is crystal clear.
indians who r trying hard to prove that hindus & muslims live in harmony....seriously who r u kidding with.....i have met many Indian mulims but rarely found any who doesn't have problem with Hindus back home.
@Muslim:
I have just one question to you: "How many Indian Muslims have interacted with in your life time"?
None I persume.
Just look at the Central and State Governments and see how many Muslim Ministers there are (there web sites) you will also see senoir police and adminstrative personnel who are muslims, uou will ess powerful business men who are muslims. You will see muslims in all walks of Indian life. If India as nation, sytmatically persecutes muslims, how is it possible?
My best freinds grwing up were muslims and christians whom I still visit whenever I go to India. How many people of another faith have you interacted honestly and non-prejudicailly with in your lifetime?
@John B:
Only problem woth theocratic states are that, it always ends up in the hands of mad men eventually for one reason or another.
@Abdul Rehman Gilani: India occupied Kashmir? Get your history right Mr.Gilani. The King of Kashmir acceded to India NOT Pakistan.
@Hariharmani: I agree with Hari. Pakistani columnists are first rate and much better than Indian columnists, very balanced. Professionally, I have a newspaper background and I am not sure if I can find such calibre on the Indian side. Like Hari, I am from India too. I love reading Pakistani newspapers even if you hate us. I don't know Urdu, but I am sure it would be even more beautiful when you upset with us in Urdu. A good looking woman is at her beautiful best when she is angry.
Elites and intelligentsia in any society have limited influence over public opinion and thought process. In a progressive nation and society, this section has the ears of the politicians and the powerful. Unfortunately in Pakistan, sane voices were drowned in the din and dust of the communal politics even before it was born.
When I see a Pakistani youth indoctrinated in religious fervor, I see darkeness in future. That Pakistan was not founded a theocracy, Quaid's Aug 11 speech are all merely wishful thinking. Pakistan's foundation was laid in communal hatred and the political class joined by the military has made it an imperative for its existence.
With the considerably high quality resources, most important of all the human resources, Pakistan should have become a Germany or a France in south Asia, and would have thumbed their nose at India, but the spirit that wrote your objectives resolution has twisted its destiny, apparently, for ever. Hatred is consuming all energies in Pakistan everyday, every week, new avenues are explored to hate more and in more ways. What is left for constructive work or recuperative efforts in the event of damages due to disasters.
Notwithstanding the hype, India (it's people) is not much better off than Pakistan in terms of political and economic well being, however, it must be said what differentiates the two nations today is the fact that Indians are hopeful, whereas Pakistanis are not. If Pakistan can rescue itself from the communal and religious fanaticism, it is better for the world, definitely for itself and it's neighbors. Let us hope.
@Adeel Ahmed: You first do the research on Godra rail buring issue.
@Tanveer
Baluchistan was caused by yourselves. Never has proof been given that India was the culprit.
Such a big number of indians commenting in Pakistani news site?? It shows the level of interest they have in Pakistan's affairs.. Go mind your own businesses, neighbours...
Between, we believe india has never accepted us as a nation and has always tried hard to bring harm to this country ... recent example is what it is doing in Baluchistan and what it tries to do in Afghanistan.
@ AHP, We dont hate india or any minority man see we had mushy who love qadianis we had Rana Baghwan Das chirf justice of pakistan we have Anthony Permal great E,T writer and he is by the way christian pakistani and Teena sani and benjamin sister loved by many pakistanis we never wanted kashmir its actuly kashmirs want us and we watch indian movies and litsen songs from bollywood and we dont care what RAW does in pakistan.
Pakistan is the car wreck slowing down traffic on the Indian road to development.
From an Indian who has lived and traveled extensively through Pakistan:
Poor Pakistani's do not hate Indians. They are too busy trying to eke out a living. Everytime I work in rural Pakistan and say I am from India, I get overwhelmed with curiosity, love, hospitality and home made gifts. PIA has allowed me overweight baggage on occasion due to the outpourings of hospitality in rural Sindh (Thatta, Nawabshah, Mirpurkhaas).
Indian Muslims are not forced to marry Hindus to be accepted: Aamir Khan and Mohammad Azharuddin married Muslim women initially and then had affairs with Hindu women who they eventually married because of love/ lust, which tends to be a universal human phenomenon and is not to my knowledge religion specific.
India has three leading industries--Bollywood, IT, cricket. In all three Muslim leaders play an integral part (Shahrukh Khan, Aazim Premji, Zaheer Khan to name just a few). They are not their because they are Muslim or despite being Muslim. They are their because they are talented. Full stop.
Godhra happened. It was horrific. It was condemned (albeit, maybe not enough). It has not happened again despite internal attacks on India by groups who profess to an Islamic identity (Mumbai attacks by LeT; Delhi bombs by Indian Taliban etc). We are an evolving experiment in how to live together and forge a national identity which supercedes religion, culture, and ethnic affiliation. This is most definitely a work in progress, but what gives me (and a billion other Indians hope) is that it is fostered by a vibrant civil society (see Anna Hazare), democratic government accountable to the people (with a 70% turnout at every election), and free press (see Tehelka). We are far from a perfect society, but atleast we are trying..damn hard.
There are only two nations on the globe which have ideological basis, Pakistan and Israel. Pakistan came into being on the basis of "Two Nation Theory" and Israel came into being for the dispersed Jews from all over the world. So you can say that Pakistan is an ideological, Islamic state for Muslims.
@YeaRight: , but your internal situation is no different then us,
Not exactly; Islamic nations tend to have unique Islamic internal situations.
Other than that; yeah, you are right. Afterall, this is the generation of the Ajmal Kasabs and the Quadri's
jeete raho beti. But the truth is we are of different religions. Your religion will never accept ours. Full stop.
Dont understand the hate comments, even if what she is saying is not accepted by the majority we should learn from the history that all the killing/ sacrificing on both ends have ended in nothing but disaster. It is beneficial for both nations to shove the hate and the negativity aside for once and for all and move on from the past mistakes. Enough of the brainwashing our books have led us to believe, the only way forward is extending a hand of friendhip and easing off the borders and letting go of the hate . I have many indian friends and believe me there is so much in common thats its almost freaky that they are from another country yet so simalar and familiar. The world needs to move on from any sort of religious divide and the past as the memories have stirred the hate more but not helped in achieving anything of a positive nature.
"LOL… Hindus and Muslims LIVE IN PEACE in India? HAHA… Gujrat… go do your research."
More Muslims are killed by Muslims in Pakistan than by Hindus in India.
@author - Arsla Jawaid after reading the comments from pakistanis (educated who can read english) what do you think. is your opinion still intact.
The lady writes about a section of people that are clearly a minority. When it comes to India, majority of Pakistani's are taught to have a visceral hatred. Majority of Indians are taught to think Pakistan as enemy (My 10 year old kids already do).
While India can temper its enmity of Pakistan to the extent by its liberal education, that provides its children a good exposure to world religions & history of Islamic India - for Pakistan it's enmity of India rules over all policy matters (education included). Pakistan army makes it its business to never let anyone in Pakistan forget that 'Pakistan ka matlab' is - Anti-India. Afterall, Pakistan wouldn't have come about, if its founders weren't against idea of 'India'!! It'd have been part of India!
While Pakistan & India will continue to be un-friendly, there is no reason why they can't be peaceful and civil. That's the best we can hope at present. Not mushy stuff.
Well, Im in your sample set but the majority remains the same anti India and pro taliban(though they wont want such a rule in Pakistan). The people I have interaction with are still in the Zia enforced ideology!
@ All the super patriotic Pakistanis.
Keep this (Indians hate Pakistan) aside for a moment. India is just one among 160 plus nations. Rather ask yourselves, 'which nation admires Pakistan?' (pls don't mention China, that's another puzzle by itself).
Basically we are just tolerated,seen with huge suspicion and considered a big pain in the collective arse of the rest of the world.
@Zaki Khalid: The slogan referred in your post was never used by Jinnah nor was it the official party line, "Pakistan ka mutlab kia" was promoted by Jamaat e Islami post partition to justify their narrow and warped vision of Pakistan, and by the way it was the same religious parties like JI and JUI Hind who opposed the creation of Pakistan. The writer is absolutely right in her interpretation of Jinnah vision of Pakistan.
@YeaRight: lol funny article....
btw we are still waiting for a "non anti-Pakistan" youth from India.
Unfortunately both our countries were created out of hatred. Both of us are still recovering from that. Given this background who has marched forward in these 60 years. India has progressed by far, by having a constitution that does not discriminate it's people based on religion or caste. The actual population of the minorities in the country have increased in these 60 years. in fact they are growing faster than the majority community. On the other hand Pakistan has a constitutuion that is discriminatory. The minority population has been dwindling. Nobody can deny these facts. Actually i think we are pretty harsh on ourselves when we say we hate each other. I have seen my Iranian and Iraqi friends hate each other to the core. On the Other hand i have noticed as Indians and pakistanis when we meet in a third country we generally tend to get along pretty well. The hope is the leaders of these two countries should get out of the 1947 mindset.
Majority of Pakistani people are not anti-Indians here. This could be analyzed by survying homes and people who watch and listen to Star Plus (and other Indian Channels),Indian movies and Indian songs.
@YeaRight: I would like to humbly submit that we are poooor countries and can not afford to be enemies like we have been for 64yrs more of the same and we will become poooooorer.
Is it braveness or cowardice of this new generation, who is acting to be ignorant of the losses that India continues to hurt stability & progress in Pakistan?
Interesting point of view of Arsla Jawaid with which I can never agree to.
Since the independence of Pakistan minority is imposing its agenda in Pakistan.
But this type of generation, I mean non "anti-Pakistan", is non existence in India.
"However, this generation is different. This is the first generation of Pakistan that is brave enough to question its government, army and intelligence agencies and argue against the supposed ideals of its state. Two reasons owe to this shift."
Has the author forgotten the resistant of several Marxist movements and indeed several rebellions by different student unions who questioned and protested against the army and the government; Has the author completely forgotten about the "Street Fighting Years" ??
@kashif: And what is this "ideology" of Pakistan? It was created just to protect interest of rich Muslims. That is all there is to it as far as its ideology is concerned. And why majority of Pakistanis always equate being Anti India to patriotism? (As you have done) Fail to understand that. Or is it the last refuge of the scondrel?
@Usman: Do you know the difference between " Not loving" and being "anti"? No one asks you to love India or the US (That is another matter that you will be the first on queue if the US offers green cards). The article is about "not being anti India" as opposed to "not loving India". I hope you get the jist.
well.. i dont know about the anti-india thing, but i know that Indian Entertaintment should be kept at a really low rate. we the youth are loosing our culture and identity because our media is promoting indian culture in everything...we should promote our lost culture, identity and our heroes.
while safeguarding all the minorities with a islamic law.
@Realist, may be more Indians can read english than Pakistanis?
@az, how wrong can you be about india is evident from your post. We do have issues.. and Indians do not deny. But major riots been few and far in 64 yrs. And its perhaps strong condemnation by majority community that these elements are margINALIZED. Overall its very good and getting better. Heard of our bollywood superstars or our muslin presidents or industrialists..bet u havnt..I can go on and on.
@Char Latan: Wrong. Unlike any other religion, Islam has a history of the most pious religious and political and military leaders (all at the same time)... who ran the nations beautifully, with faith and fairness... we have that kind of experience, those role models in front of us.
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Arsla,
I like this article but frankly speaking there is a huge amount of difference in the common public thinking in India for Pakistan & in Pakistan for India.
I'm sure the Generations who studied "A/O" Levels system must like India I know that personally.
There is a huge difference in India & Pakistan Policies as well.
If you read there are lots of reports on these stuff already available and I can debate on it for hours and hours.
Bottom Line we are not against any one but INDIA CAN NOT BE OUR FRIENDS EVER.
this not what i'm thinking about India but this is reality. I'm sure Time is the best Teacher and will tell each of us.
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@Post from New York: Jinnah did not want a secular state... haha. What a joke. And Pakistanis DO NOT want a secular state...
@Sundeep: LOL... Hindus and Muslims LIVE IN PEACE in India? HAHA... Gujrat... go do your research.
i was just wondering..... have i ever gone to the any indian newspaper and have taken so much of an interest in their thoughts :-O
the majority of pakistan are anti-india, while the majority of india do not see any point in befreinding with pakistan, its better to limit upto trade, bollywood and cricket !! i suggest a no-hatred (but no love as well) relation with pakistan is in the best interest of india !!
@Az: Dont live in a fools paradise by blind beliefs. Did you ever hear any Indian muslims ever supports your thoughts. In India irrespective of religion everybody has a level playing field. Just how many muslims are flourishing in their respective fields whether it is politics, business, education or entertainment.........improve your gk
You talked abt this generation not being anti-India, what surety do you have that current Indian generation is not anti-Pakistan? According to me India with its booming industry will reach a point of saturation one day like Europe during sixteenth and seventeenth century and then she would need a market like Pakistan to export. All this frienship rant with gun in the holster is just a desperate charade to gain leverage over Pakistan.
P.S I am 24 yrs old and belong to current generation
@Babloo:
Absolutely correct. Remove the anti-India, hate-India, check-mate India, break-up India, terrorize India and kill innocent Indian civilians stance of Pakistan and it will collapse. There is no Pakistani identity. There is only the anti-India identity.
The world can see what hate as a national ideology can do for a country.
@ author must not forget that muslims of india are still in plight,they are still being attacked,killed and raped by hindu extremists on daily basis but indian media and administration do not highlight their right's violations.being a CM,Narendar Modi had once ordered Hindus to kill muslims and rape their women but indian media and govt didn't utter even a single against him
The modernist Muslims, do have a stronger voice these days ( thanks to the internet that has brought about a social revolution ) but, so do the radicalists ( thanks to the internet once again ). There may be moer enlightened people today, but there are more violent ones too ( the evils of an uncontrolled chain reaction )
The majority still does not favour a "pro-India" stance, but to some degree, rationality prevails in some young minds. It it to these minds you owe your hope- yet it is nothing but a hope.
@Usman: you are wrong and ill informed, no one blocked your water and has been confirmed by pakistan's commissioner on Indus water treaty.
Blocked your EU trade bid, it works both ways mate. You block all products coming to India via Pakistan then seek India's support at EU bid. Remember this when India gave MFN status to Pakistan many years ago.
If you have other credible evidence to show India has in any way tried to harm pakistan then lets discuss it. (please dont even think of bringing 1971 in this, it was your own failure).
Are there any sites where I can visit to validate this observations ?
A positive article and we hope in future both the countries live in peace and security.
Someone said majority of India is anti Pakistan which nothing but an ignorant rant. Perhaps even after Mumbai and Kargil we gave Pakistani contigent a rousing reception in commonwealth games and even now talks are on although there are reservations, but overall people are still supportive.
People in India are Anti LeT, Anti Jehadist, Anti Hafiz Sayeed and just sceptical about sections of ISI and Army which is not unnatural given the evidences of past occurances.
But by and large we want peace and if there are more authors and leaders with a feeling like you InshaAllah it will happen in our life time.
It seems, from some of the comments above, that many Pakistanis hate India. Whether for historical reasons - murder, rape, loot in 1947 (and which community was blameless?) or maybe because of heavy doses of propaganda. There are plenty anti-Pak folks this side too, but few have their hatred going back to '47. Mostly it is about cross-border terror. The author is obviously pro-peace like many more Pakistanis. Whether these "many more" are the silent majority or a cowed down minority, I have no means of knowing. But i do have a suggestion. Let the politicians and generals do whatever it is they're good at. Let the hawks hawk away. We, the individuals who want peace can make our own individual peace with like-minded individuals. The barbed wire fences wont come crashing down, rivers wont run with milk and honey, soldiers wont unload and sling arms, but what the heck. At least a few friendships would have been forged.
I guess after India blocked our water voilating the Indus Water Treaty, blocked our EU trade bid, and voted against us in the UN, there is no more proof needed that India is indeed our true friend.
@Junaid: Mr. Junaid, being pro India and being a patriotic Pakistani citizen don't have to be mutually exclusive, If there are people in Pakistan who are pro-India, it's not really a bad thing, right? Those people might change things in Pakistan for the better.
I consider myself from the latest generation of Pakistanis but I love my country, I don't hate our armed forces, I have no inferiority complex that forces me to believe everything Americans and Indians say, I listen to Pakistani music and I like Pakistani culture. Are you saying somethig is wrong with me because I don't love India and America?
@YeaRight: will all due respect u are wrong,u guys are not ur own critics at all,if u were u wud improve and try things differently(which is the basic point of self-critique). in this forum there are pakistanis who are critics of its own country but in general the paki populace continues to have outsider bashing as its national passtime. just listen to some of ur talkshows and u'll know what im talking about. there are thousands(may be millions) of problems in india but atleast they are not on oustsiders mercy to be solved.
@Zaki Khalid: oh please when will stop this rubbish that 50 lakh muslims were killed in 1947,and that too by sikhs and hindus. do your research dude ,around 10 lakh people were killed on both sides of the borders and muslims were no bystanders,they equally killed the others.plzzzz try reading some independent facts rather than ur government propaganda.
and in india there is a very strong anti-pakistan sentiment and looking at the comments above i can safely say that its the same in pakistan.
Indians Are SOOOOOOOO Obsessed With Pakistan. That they not only read our full papers + Continuously comment. I mean like REALLY ? I've been to Indian news-sites I hardly find Pakistanis commenting on their news-pieces like that!
Trust me the majority in Pakistan are still Anti-Indian, just like across the border the majority in India are Anti-Pakistani. Indian trolls will have a bit of a Pakistan bashing party in the ET comment section and prove me to be correct. [2] ENOUGH SAID!!
I have a simple message for those who are berating the author's idealistic liberal ideology and also to those waxing lyrical about Pakistan as an Islamic bulwark state: Fear Not. Your wish has been realized. The liberal voices such as that of the author are fast receding. Islamic ideology Pakistan in its lethal embrace.
Be aware though that living in a state governed by any religious ideology has its drawbacks. For instance, those of you who believe in the ideals of such a state but also consider yourselves moderates are the next liberals. Your views will be challenged by self-appointed zealots who consider themselves more pious, more holier than thou. Let alone being deemed liberal, your moderate views may even be considered heretic.
So enjoy your new & unexpected mantle and prepare yourselves for the long ride down the slippery slope. Remember - you asked for it.
hilarious stuff
@Junaid: leave the world if you hate humanity so much !!
@Babloo: Your identity is based on your Ideology and that is anti-India. God only will save you and your country.
@Indian trolls If we really want to have a debate then lets look into our own collars first. Both countries have a bitter history that has been passed down generations through the experiences of those who lived through partiiton and a hyperbolic establishment on both sides. You guys arn't exactly sacred cows, and are equally vitriolic against Pakistanis in the media, government, heck even in Bollywood where SRK has to prove his patriotic credentials just because he declared the IPL ban on Pakistani players unfair. Also you guys need to stop befooling yourselves over your secular and inter-ethnic credentials, every one knows the weight that rightwing pulls in India, what happened in Gujrat and hindu-muslim clashes that have broken out over the years or even the incidents of Christians being targeted by hindu extremists. Everyone knows the subtle discrimination that exists, and there are sectarian as well as ethnic tensions, whether it is the Assamese separatists movement, the Maoists, Naxalites, I go on an on. You have the same development, poverty alleviation, inequality disparity and mass scale corruption issues like us The point is yes you are a bigger country geographically and economically, but your internal situation is no different then us, so quit throwing stones in glasshouses. Do you find us Pakistanis rushing to your Indian websites to troll and laugh and mock at your problems? Atleast as much as as I disagree with the articles or some of the authors at ET, I respect their views. We Pakistanis have alot of problems but we are also our own worst critics and don't brush things under the carpet. You need to do have the humility to do the same.
The first part of your article spells out the truth which is irrelevant today as it is no longer valid. The second part is optimistic and sensible people on both sides wish it turns out the way you have pictured it. @Vineet - liked your comment.
I wish we can ship all these pro-india star-plus brainwashed people to india. Leave Pakistan if you love india so much.
"New Generation" or generation "X" is a lost generation which has no clue of it's history or it's roots. It's a wanna be generation which has been mesmerized by Star Plus & the Indian media & it's movies. Please go & read some history & try to look at the treatment of Muslims in India, where Muslims are a marginalized nation, where the so called high-flying Muslims have to marry Hindu women (eg Shahrukh Khan, Aamir Khan, Farhan Akhtar...list is endless) is endless), just to get accepted within the Indian society!
Wake up girl & the so-called "New Generation" to the reality that Indians & India (esp North Indians) never accepted the partition & hate Pakistan along with Pakistanis.
Author has given a assertive view over the Indo-Pak disturbances, which have continued post partition and still persists. Well certainly our this generation is enjoying ample of rights today than the generations who pleaded for the coming generations. Their pleas resulted in the fruits we have today. Thank our older generation for the demonstrations and manifestations they did in their time.
"A state founded for Muslims is by no means the same as an Islamic state."
A premise based on the assumption of 'Seperation of Church (sorry mosque) and State". Now, how many countries with a Muslim majority can you give an example who follow this? : Not more than 3.
We would love to live with Peace..i really appreciate your work..agree with ur point..but request at da same time to search more to find: Pakistan was not formed as an Islamic nation. It was instead envisioned as a state designed to provide economic stability and opportunity to Muslims who, post-Partition, would otherwise have found themselves a minority in a predominantly Hindu nation. A state founded for Muslims is by no means the same as an Islamic state. Adding further to this confusion is the central question, what form of Islam was Pakistan meant to follow? Important also to remember is that it was not till 1956 that Pakistan was officially renamed the ‘Islamic Republic of Pakistan’. its actually not like that dear.. u'll find many proofs for this... still we love and respect our neighbors :)
@YeaRight: There are some real nut cases in most places,and agreed, some bashing is common in both side of the border,but we have to hope some day there will be less screw balls and more people of good will,I find in Tribune,and i frequently write,i find some really kindered soul on the other side of India.Very bright,very level headed,i often wondered why with so many bright people,how come this nation is in such dire state and Chaos?Your columnist are first rate and are much better than India.Can you tell me ,WHY?,may be you will or any one else will take time to elobarate,this conundrum.Will wait,Will travel.
Anti-Indian ideology is the greatest strategic asset of Pakistan . It must be protected, preserved and promoted at all cost. If Pakistan loses it, it then loses its identity.
The author is running ahead of herself. It is a sweeping generalization to say "this generation" because she ain't talking about a generation but about a minority in this generation, the elite and urban few. She definitely has a life inside a limited circle that she has extrapolated her conclusions from. Reality is different, this generation is more cynical, narrow minded, dumb, hating, hypocritical, and politically dumb than any of the previous Pakistani generations. I am a part of this generation on a middle-class, middle-lower-class level and I can tell you, the people this writer is talking about are negligible.
Well I belong to the ‘post non-anti-India generation’ which believes that Muslim league consisted of corrupt feudals and British loyalists who used religion to protect their status and privileges in post British era. I too lived in a state of denial for a while believing that Muslim league wanted to protect the right of Muslims, but the composition of the party and total absence of any socio economic manifesto totally refutes this argument. The roots of theocracy were laid by the communal politics of Muslim league, and mullahs have every right to demand that.
but indian mindset remains the same. if need any proof ...go through their comments on pak news articles
well, i appreicate your good intention to foster new dialogue and engage new peace with india. but i dont feel that even the urabn elite class of pakistanis are not anti indian...from what i have seen in this forum, they have anti india, and very extremist view of islam.. i assume the people who come here, are well educated, have great access to world matter, and are part of mass middle class society if not elite class of pakistan..
i have also personally witnessed with few pakistanis when i stayed in student dormitary in munich..when one of the pakistani who is doing his phd, said europe is doomed and cursed as he saw in some beaches in spain where men and women are nude.. i mean if you are not going to like the way europeans are living, why one earth you come to euorpe in first place ? you take advantage of their social security system, their free education system, starve to death to get a citizenship and then curse them in the back, coz they do things that you dont want to see.....im not justifying what europeans are doing, but isnt it good, if you just mind your own business, and do what ur suppose to do in their country.... on the other hand i met another pakistani in dubai who is modern and quiet open. however he was born and brought up in UK..there you see the differnece...
this is the big difference between a muslim in india and a muslim in pakistan..for us, tolernace and appreciate fellow human being irrespective of any religion is parts and parcel of life...i have been to tirupathi temple, i have been to buddhist monastery, i have been to vatican church, i been to synonogue , yet my faith is intact. My moms best friends are brahmins, and my best colleagues are christians...thats the way we live here, and that what our founding father dreamt about...
anti india and extremist view are well injected in to your blood stream, and i am not so optmisitc as you are....
The author's spirit is good but facts are not.
PAK was founded as an Islamic state and this religious fervor was the reason why the first constitution of PAK was delayed so long. The same story goes for the second and the thread constitution as well.
Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong in being a theocratic state as long as the minorities are protected. However, very rarely it happens in a state sponsored religious environment.
Surely the youth and elites of PAK are non anti-India and as long as it is within PAK terms.
The author herself said it well, " it is not the tangible grievances that separate the two countries but rather the pride that comes with them". Pride of PAK would have been more genuine.
The truly non anti- India PAK are the poor masses. Nevertheless, there is a shift in present PAK political elites thinking towards India, which is a welcoming sign. I am not sure whether it is due to anti-US or genuine realization of the politics.
I think most of the people know and understand this in Pakistan, it is only the handful of people who spread and distribute hatred from their factories. Pakistan was not formed as an Islamic nation. Jinnah wanted a secular country but the military dictators ruined it all. The religious extremism, anti-india sentiments, jihad, hatred - all have been because of them. As someone said, it was good that Jinnah died so early else one of the dictators would have got him hanged. How ironic but could have been true. It is the time the history books are corrected, more than sixty years have been enough to realize that this. Hope we do not waste this century also.
Good work Arsla....keep it up!!
Just as I was getting warmed up.... the article ended!!! I didnt get to know anything new! What's the point of this article?
Miss we know this allready after may 1998 the historic day of change in south asia and we dont mind doing busniss with india or iran or russia.
@ Author
I am not sure whether the younger Pak generation is changed or not, but your article gives glimmer of hope, well done.
One thing today's generation in Pakistan should think about is how a country formed to provide rights to minority make a U-turn to deprive the same rights to its own minorities. Isn't it hypocritical? Its like Pakistan became the same country its running away from. Meanwhile in India people from several different religions and disciplines live in more or less harmony. Unaltered history can teach you so much.
thank you for reiterating that pakistan's name didn't have the word ''islamic'' in it when it was formed by jinnah,it was only many years later in 1956 under pressure by the extreme right wing that this change was made.
Sorry to spoil the roadshow but 50 lakh Muslim immigrants did not get martyred for a mere "Muslim-populated state". What got them martyred through brutal killings, beheadings and rapes by a group of extremist Sikh and Hindus was their persisted slogan "Pakistan ka matlab kya? La ilaha ilallah". There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan keeping demographics in view. Why then are they still not then influential in India?
Pakistan was not created for theocracy (mullah-ism) but was created to be an ideal Islamic state where pious noblemen from all schools of thought would unite together to form a legislative assembly as also evident from the Objectives Resolution.
Cute article. Did the author put up a status on Facebook or do a quick survey among at a GT as a sample to base her argument on? This assessment is as accurate as the assumption that liberals carried for the past decade that the enlightened moderate were in the majority in the masses, only to find out the reverse was true of this year. Trust me the majority in Pakistan are still Anti-Indian, just like across the border the majority in India are Anti-Pakistani. Indian trolls will have a bit of a Pakistan bashing party in the ET comment section and prove me to be correct.