The racism epidemic: A conversation between Riz Ahmed and American comedian Hari Kondabolu
Riz and Hari talk about cultural misinterpretation
PHOTO: KRUI FM/EVENING STANDARD
Queens-born comedian Hari Kondabolu says he would rather do anything else than explain racism to white people. "Telling me that I’m obsessed with talking about racism in America is like telling me that I’m obsessed with swimming when I’m drowning,” he told Interview Magazine .
Nonetheless, Hari continues to address the issue out of pure necessity. Often called a "political comedian," he feels that the term negates his stance and dedication to activism.
There's always been racism, there always will be: Ali Fazal
This year, Hari is releasing a new documentary called The Problem with Apu - Apu being Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, the Indian convenience store owner from the American TV series The Simpsons. The documentary delves into the issue with Apu's characters and how the South Asian history is represented in the media.
In a phone conversation, Hari discussed Apu with the Pakistani-British Star Wars actor Riz Ahmed and how even satirical cartoons play a role in the game of power.
The conversation started off with a little humour, with Hari saying to Riz, "How strange is it that we're two brown men who have agreed to have a phone call where white people are listening silently and writing down what they're saying? And we agreed to this!"
To this, Riz snapped, "It's not that different to every day, right?" Followed by some dialogue on the kind of comic content Hari covers in his standups, Riz highlighted how The Problem with Apu is so important. Here's how the conversation flowed...
Riz: In terms of your documentary, is the dream to get to a point where there’re so many different portrayals of people of colour, and they’re so frequently depicted as being intelligent or heroic and on equal footing with white characters that you can, quite happily, have an Apu character? And Apu stops being an archetypal, 'Hey, isn’t this what all South-Asians are like?' and starts just being like, 'Oh, yeah, this is just a funny dude who works at the store.' Is that a dream?
It's not just my Emmy, it's yours: Riz Ahmed at Princeton University's Muslim Life Programme
Hari: I think it’s even more specific than that. You don’t have immigrant characters with a great deal of depth generally, especially if they’re South-Asian. I don’t see many characters where you get a sense of the immigrant experience: of hardship and humour...One that’s derived not from mockery, but actual precedent.
You don’t see that with immigrant character portrayals and it’s not only South-Asians. When they made that character, Apu, it’s not about us; it’s about our families, man; about that generation.
So to me, it’s about having a fuller voice. When I made The Problem with Apu, it wasn’t even about Apu. That’s the trigger: the thing that many of us had growing up that would be the immediate example, and it’s The Simpsons so everybody understands that; it’s under everyone’s nose.
But to me, this is part of a larger legacy of minstrelsy. You’re representing our faces, features, stories, voices, families and you’re doing it wrong! That’s what it’s about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4CEPmdEdI
Riz: But there are two different points you’re making there. One is, 'Is it your story to tell?' And then the second point you’re making is, 'You’re doing it wrong.'
Nonetheless, Hari continues to address the issue out of pure necessity. Often called a "political comedian," he feels that the term negates his stance and dedication to activism.
There's always been racism, there always will be: Ali Fazal
This year, Hari is releasing a new documentary called The Problem with Apu - Apu being Apu Nahasapeemapetilon, the Indian convenience store owner from the American TV series The Simpsons. The documentary delves into the issue with Apu's characters and how the South Asian history is represented in the media.
In a phone conversation, Hari discussed Apu with the Pakistani-British Star Wars actor Riz Ahmed and how even satirical cartoons play a role in the game of power.
The conversation started off with a little humour, with Hari saying to Riz, "How strange is it that we're two brown men who have agreed to have a phone call where white people are listening silently and writing down what they're saying? And we agreed to this!"
To this, Riz snapped, "It's not that different to every day, right?" Followed by some dialogue on the kind of comic content Hari covers in his standups, Riz highlighted how The Problem with Apu is so important. Here's how the conversation flowed...
Riz: In terms of your documentary, is the dream to get to a point where there’re so many different portrayals of people of colour, and they’re so frequently depicted as being intelligent or heroic and on equal footing with white characters that you can, quite happily, have an Apu character? And Apu stops being an archetypal, 'Hey, isn’t this what all South-Asians are like?' and starts just being like, 'Oh, yeah, this is just a funny dude who works at the store.' Is that a dream?
It's not just my Emmy, it's yours: Riz Ahmed at Princeton University's Muslim Life Programme
Hari: I think it’s even more specific than that. You don’t have immigrant characters with a great deal of depth generally, especially if they’re South-Asian. I don’t see many characters where you get a sense of the immigrant experience: of hardship and humour...One that’s derived not from mockery, but actual precedent.
You don’t see that with immigrant character portrayals and it’s not only South-Asians. When they made that character, Apu, it’s not about us; it’s about our families, man; about that generation.
So to me, it’s about having a fuller voice. When I made The Problem with Apu, it wasn’t even about Apu. That’s the trigger: the thing that many of us had growing up that would be the immediate example, and it’s The Simpsons so everybody understands that; it’s under everyone’s nose.
But to me, this is part of a larger legacy of minstrelsy. You’re representing our faces, features, stories, voices, families and you’re doing it wrong! That’s what it’s about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4CEPmdEdI
Riz: But there are two different points you’re making there. One is, 'Is it your story to tell?' And then the second point you’re making is, 'You’re doing it wrong.'