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India, Pakistan begin Siachen talks
It is the 13th round of talks between the two countries on Siachen.
Indian Defence secretary, Shashikant Sharama, shakes hands with his Pakistani counterpart Nargis Sethi (L) before starting talks at the Defence Ministry in Rawalpindi on June 11, 2012. PHOTO: AFP
RAWALPINDI: Indian and Pakistani defence officials held a fresh round of talks Monday seeking to end decades of dispute over the Siachen Glacier, dubbed the world’s highest battlefield.
An avalanche on April 7 killed 140 people at a Pakistani army camp saw Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Kayani, call for a negotiated end to the stalemate and say that the glacier should be demilitarised.
But India, which captured the commanding peaks in 1984, sees the glacier as vital to monitor Pakistani positions below and important for the defence of its part of Kashmir, where a separatist insurgency has killed tens of thousands since 1989.
Pakistani troops have tried but failed to seize control of the sliver of territory, where sub-zero temperatures and high altitude have caused countless deaths.
The two days of talks between the most senior civil servants at India and Pakistan’s defence ministries were being held at the Pakistani ministry in Rawalpindi.
India’s Defence Minister AK Antony has warned against any breakthrough, saying that India would explain its “clear-cut position” on Siachen to the Pakistanis.
“Do not expect any dramatic announcement or decision on an issue which is very important for us, especially in the context of national security,” he said last week.
Twelve previous rounds of talks between the nuclear-armed rivals on Siachen have all ended in stalemate.
Pakistani officials were also tight-lipped about the talks.
“The two sides will discuss Siachen and other matters related to defence affairs,” Sohail Aftab, a spokesman for the defence ministry, told AFP.
The Indian delegation is being led by SK Sharma and the Pakistani side by Nargis Sethi. The Indian visitors also met Pakistan’s Defence Minister Naveed Qamar and a joint statement will be issued on Tuesday, Aftab said.
India and Pakistan have fought three wars since independence in 1947, two of them over the Himalayan region of Kashmir, which is divided by a heavily militarised Line of Control and which both countries claim in full.
Last year they resumed their tentative peace process, which collapsed after gunmen from Pakistan killed 166 people in Mumbai in November 2008.
Analysts say there is growing support in Pakistan for rapprochment with India, which could help boost its flagging economy and quell tensions on the eastern border as Pakistan grapples with a deadly Taliban insurgency in its northwest.
But India shares increasing US frustration with Pakistan’s unwillingness or inability to clamp down on havens used by militants who attack US troops in Afghanistan and who pose a threat to India.
India’s Cabinet Committee on Security discussed the Siachen issue at a meeting last Thursday, but no details were made public.
“Our stand on Siachen is well known to the other side and the talks would continue within those parameters,” an Indian defence official told AFP of the Indian military’s reluctance to withdraw from the commanding peaks.
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Sanity, much needed!
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You think sanity is not needed in case of Mumbai attack ? Pakistan pleads for sanity only when it is pushed to the wall. Enough is enough !!
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Success of Siachen Talks can go a long way and contributing in the prosperity of this region and the common-man.
Let’s not anyone (Clinton) come and hijack these talks any more – No more Divide and Rule.
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Very Good Step, People of both nations fully back the peace process.
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13th Time Lucky?
++++++++++++++
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Nice pic, thank you very much!!
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@ Jat: Though not justified under any circumstances but have you ever wondered why cases like Mumbai attacks occur in first place?
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For the sake of our kids, let’s resolve our differences. Yes, PK made wrong choices but let’s move on!
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When separatist insurgency started in 1989 only why did Indian forces occupied Saichen glacier in 1985 itself ? No wonder they started all this crap and even root cause to Kargil conflict was Indian occupation in Siachen.
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@Hammad: No matter what the reason or circumstances, there doesnt exist a scenario wherein Mumbai attacks against innocent civilians can be justified.
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Is there a point to all this?
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@Hammad:
“Though not justified under any circumstances but have you ever wondered why cases like Mumbai attacks occur in first place?”
That’s because you consider rouges as “strategic assets”.
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@Hammad: “Why Mumbai attacks occur in first place?”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They occur because Pakistan has a state policy and history of “asymmetrical” warfare that relies on proxy fighters.Further the Pakistani masses” attention can be diverted from the deprivation by whipping up anti India hysteria.
BTW there is no sign of change!
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@Hammad:
Its because people like you in pakistan provide legitmacy to such henious acts of barbarism!
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@Hammad: ‘ Though not justified under any circumstances but have you ever wondered why cases like Mumbai attacks occur in first place?’ Can you explain as I am still wondering.
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@Hammad:
state sponsored activity on the sly…
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waste of time, money and God knows what!
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@Hammad:
yes, because some people in the world choose terrorism to advance their causes. But, all nations in the world will benefit from wiping out terrorism and instituting discussions such as the one going on between India and Pakistan on Siachen.
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Talks are useless infront of Indian non-serious attitude..!
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@Pungi: “Talks are useless infront of Indian non-serious attitude..!”
Indian attitude is very serious and takes into account Pakistan’s past behaviour. As one of the people mentioned elsewhere , if your team is all out for 120 you cannot demand that other team should declare at 119. This is the approach of Pakistani establishment.
Sorry India’s attitude is directly arising from Pak actions. The need for negotiatin is greater for Pakistan due to inability to spend the necessary money to keep occupation of western slopes and Gyari sector (they are anyway not on Siachen).Recommend
The negotiating point of PAK will never materialize on Saichen.
Pak wants total Indian withdrawal of the triangular area- Indrira Col(west), NJ, and Karakoram pass,- which is under Indian control. Why should India give up this position while PAK has nothing go offer.
Who is going to gaurantee that these regions won’t be taken over by China or PAK.
It is foolish for Indian side to withdraw without clearly demarcating the boundary, and establishing the security, and monitoring positions.
India should unilaterally declare that Saichen issue is closed.
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India needs to make sure that in any withdrawl, both sides withdraw equal distances from the current line of control in Siachen and the area of the buffer zone is equally split between area currently under pak control and that on Indian side.
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The withdrawal could be under the US supervision if both sides are sincere. The death camps must be dismembered. On one hand we are so upset at the killing of two dozen soldiers on the other we are willing to sacrifice hundreds of soldiers in just one incident. Let us get real and not waste our meager resources on the glacier.Recommend
Here is my draft of the treaty.
Current positions of both sides authenticated and 2 lines will be drawn, one connecting all Indian positions and anothor connecting all Pakistan positions.
Both sides would then withdraw an equal distance ( specified here ) , from their respective authenticated line of Control.
The buffer Zone thus created will be of equal size , on both sides of the lines of authetication.
India shall maintain the right to maintain full survellaince over the buffer zone on its side of the line of authetication, using means and personnel as defined in the attachment.
Pakistan shall maintain the right to full survellance on its side of the buffer zone as described in the attachment.
Remember, the only treaty, that has survived all wars, is the Indus water treaty and that may be so because all obligations as per that treaty are on India. None on Pakistan. If just a Salala incident can suspension of the treaty on NATO transit routes, just imagine, what would have happened if all the rivers were flowing from Pakistan to India.
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For past 20 years,India has been trying to solve the Siachen issue even though they have the upper hand but Pakistan thought it is better to capture Siachen through military strength by kargil than through talks
Now,god forbid,150 soldiers die and now Pakistan is showing white flag and eveyone in Pakistan is blaming India for not responding to it…
Hypocrisy at its highest!!!! Unfortunately
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india always whinnig about mumbai!! but not even think of samjhota express! the people u harbours in ur army as a terrorists wht about those???
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@uzbi: Look who’s talking, Siachen suddenly came into picture because you lost 150 soldiers na. So stop whining about that
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I have a view on the Indo- Pak situation which may not be palatable to lot of Pakistanis however would like your candid and as usual honest view on the matter.I feel the major impediment to peace between our countries is the Pakistan Army , this is because the Pakistan Army is in a privileged position in Pakistan this position is only justified if the perceived threat from India is maintained . The army will never allow any meaningful progress on the peace process because if there is no perceived threat from India what is the justification for maintaining such a big army which you can ill afford, what is the justification or the huge expenditure on the army and its kingmaker role in the country. I feel both countries need to reduce the size of there armies to at least half so that the resources of the countries can be spent on development.I look forward to your views on the subject .
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The Indian Army is controlled by the elected government but still it is too large more so if you add the paramilitary forces . In case we are able to have peace with Pakistan the size of the army and the paramilitary could be reduced and the resources released for development. However it is the Pakistan Army which holds all the aces and it will never let us be at peace because if they do then they loose their empire.
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@jssidhoo, Buddy do you have any idea which country is the highest importer of weaponry? its India, do you not consider this a threat by its own.
Its india and its external ambitions that really are a threat to the region. Pakistan never wanted to become the regional superpower unlike India which always overrates itself.
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whom these are pleasing U.S or russia – or frighting China!
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Hope we have a solution this time. Many brave soldiers have died from both sides.
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