- 28 May 2012
Ahmadi massacre: HRW urges govt to bring culprits to justice - 05 May 2012
Worship place: It no longer resembles a mosque - 10 Apr 2012
Another sectarian attack
- RSS
- Today's Paper
- Subscribe
- beta 2.1
Alerts
The state has no business deciding someone’s faith
The State has no business declaring anyone from any sect, or fussing about religious architectural structures.
The writer is a lawyer and partner at Ijaz and Ijaz Co in Lahore [email protected]
One of the most majestic and arresting structures of Europe is the Great Mosque of Cordova. Apart from exquisite architecture, the unique thing about the mosque is that it is not really a mosque. Built in the eighth century by the Umayyad Caliphate as one of the greatest mosques, it was converted into a cathedral in the 13th Century after the Christian reconquest of Spain. Today, it is a building with an identity crisis, a mosque with a cathedral erected in the middle. Yet, anyone who has been a tourist there would know that one has to ask for directions to the Mezquita (mosque) or the Mezquita-Catedral (Mosque Cathedral) as that is what the locals refer to it as even after more than seven centuries of it being a cathedral. It stands as a symbol of defiance to the impulses of conquest and rebranding of buildings and indeed history. The obsession with demolishing, branding and rebranding buildings has not been extinguished with the Crusades, the Babri Mosque fiasco being a representative example. More recently, a court in Lahore had a petition asking that an Ahmadi place of worship should have the dome and minaret demolished, lest it misleads the faithful into believing that it is a mosque.
Its action would have been stupid at all times, yet the idiocy and sinisterly nature is compounded by a couple of reasons. Firstly, the place of worship in question is one of the two where the biggest massacre in Lahore since partition took place and the perpetrators of the mass murder remain at large. Secondly, the court was approached one or two days after the second anniversary of the obnoxious and shameful murderous episode, which incidentally was very deliberately ignored by our free and independent media and by the public at large. The oversight cannot be completely attributed to apathy, but rather to a certain degree of maliciousness. Devotional architecture has never been a particular area of interest of mine, yet it is obvious that the Pakistani State and the courts make an extraordinarily grand claim for themselves when saying that they will decide what place of worship is fit for those wanting to pray to the Almighty.
I did not see any statement from any public figure, particularly a politician, on the occasion of the anniversary remembering and extending condolences to those who passed away in the dastardly act. One reason could be that the massacre in Lahore is condemned to be eclipsed by hyper-nationalist and jingoist celebrations of becoming a nuclear power, falling round about the same time. Another reason is fear, yet the most disturbing potential reason is that many are not actually, really that angry at the incident. Stereotypical and boiler-plate statements and reactions such as “the loss of innocent lives is always regrettable” etc. do not cut it. It is not just the loss of innocent lives but rather the loss of innocent lives belonging to a group that is actively being hunted in this country and the need for the State to end this persecution and rise up to the additional responsibility of ensuring extra protection for them.
The slightly clichéd analogy with Nazi Germany and that those armbands may just be around the corner is not really as farfetched as it seems. Anti-Semitism is qualitatively different from other forms of racial and sectarian prejudices, since while all sorts of pejorative terms are used to describe the group against which one is bigoted, yet very rarely is malice or conspiracy alleged in regards to the group as an entirety. The rage against the Ahmadis might not be completely theocratic. A lot of Muslims consider other Muslims as non-Muslims, yet ordinarily they would object to (or at least one hopes that they would) to having public death warrants issued and displayed, except for the Ahmadis. Hence, like anti-Semitism it is something more than mere difference in religious interpretation; it is as if they are positively evil or insincere to the country. I hope you believe me when I say that I do not exaggerate, Ladies and Gentleman, this is the stuff of Auschwitz and gas chambers or at least this how it all begins.
I dearly look forward to a time where one would not need to somewhat apologetically state why this bigotry, repression and bloodlust should be resisted and is suicidal and self-destructive for everyone. If people from one sect can be murdered without much commotion being created, the justification immediately becomes useable for all. The Hazara Shia are a case in point. A cheap and low response to the question of Ahmadi killing and persecution is the pathetic counter-question of why are you obsessed with them, there are other people dying every day. We have heard the justification after Salmaan Taseer’s murder (who was one of the very few who vocally spoke against the Ahmadi massacre and whose birthday I am told recently passed away without much notice).
Some people have the nerve to go hoarse and lurid about minarets being banned in Switzerland while having nothing to say about the same in the Land of the Pure. There is another reason why this government, particularly federal, has a higher onus to act. Declaring Ahmadis as non-Muslim is the most disobliging skeleton in Mr Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s closet and it is time that the record be set straight, befittingly by his own party. The State has no business declaring anyone from any sect, or fussing about religious architectural structures.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah who was a Shia, although probably completely secular at a personal level, had a standard answer to the silly rather intrusive question of whether he was a Shia or a Sunni. He responded by asking if the Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a Shia or a Sunni. Fortunately for him, that response apparently ended the discussion. Lucky for him, I guess that he is not alive today. Since it is quite possible that Mr Jinnah would have been murdered by the faithful today just for that.
Published in The Express Tribune, June 3rd, 2012.
Reader Comments (82)
Opinion Latest Stories
Blazing trails: Australia and Pakistan
Australia will support new govt in its efforts of good governance, economic development as it faces challenges ahead.
Naya Pakistan!
Federal govt, which remains as elaborate as before 18th Amendment, has been trying but failing to make ends meet.
Achakzai’s pie-in-the-sky formula
If Achakzai can make peace in Gulistan, I will be a little more confident of his scheme apropos of the TTP.
Blaming Imran (II)
To say that the abysmal state of Pakistan cricket is his doing, like Aamir Sohail has done, is absurd.
A letter to overseas Pakistanis
There are many here, in Pakistan, who fight for justice, for equality, for education and for freedoms.
Blaming Imran
I would like to point out that Sohail himself captained Pakistan after Imran’s retirement. What accolades did he earn?
Provincial budgets — practice in devolution
Pakistan’s political governance structure is taking shape in a manner that appears set to serve the country well.
NSA and the PRISM programme
Pakistanis who use Google, Microsoft and Facebook on a daily basis may want to reconsider their options.
Recent Slideshows
More in Opinion
Think before we speak
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, redistributed or derived from.
Unless otherwise stated, all content is copyrighted © 2013 The Express Tribune News Network.
Technical feedback? [email protected]
Sad but true that pakistanis love talking about how as Muslims they are superior to the rest of the world and yet they are allowing something like the holocaust to brew in their nation.
Recommend
we live in a country where shia muslims are killed because they call themselves muslims, where ahmadi muslims are killed because they call themselves muslims, where barelvi muslims are killed because they go to shrines, where a governor is killed because of his belief that a certain poor christen lady is innocent and the killer is considered a hero, the question is should we give religion more space in state matters or less? the answer is obvious but can we say it loud or will we be killed because we gave the right answer.
Recommend
Bravo for highlighting this. Our government ministers are spineless. Did anyone speak out against the murder of the governor of Punjab? Shot in the back by a coward, who’s job it was to protect him. Has anything been done to push forward his prosecution so that he walks to the gallows? Then there was the despicable (and as yet unsolved) murder of the minorities minister that didn’t get the outrage that it deserved. And finally the mullah responsible for the lal masjid outrage is at liberty and is about to have land and new building bestowed to him so that he can start his business again. Where is the outrage? And ET publish this and stand on the side of free speech.
Recommend
Well written article Saroop!! Thought provoking indeed.
Recommend
Ijaz, thanks for the excellent article. I couldn’t agree more.
Recommend
Thank you for standing up for the little guy. The Ahmedi community has seen the worst in the staggered history of Pakistan. I salute to you courage and as a pragmatist am hopeful that all will have equal rights in Sar-Zamian-e-Pakistan at some point. My generation may not see those days but we also do not want to leave behind despair.
Human dignity and respect for human rights is more important than Namaz-o-roza or other religious rituals.
Recommend
Nice article with many good answers thank u sir.
Recommend
Everyone must read an article published few days ago about an army officer who belonged to the Shia Hazara community. Only then one can fully apprehend the scale of hatred against Ahmadis and the social ostracization that results from it. In many universities and organizations, Ahmadis are not allowed to eat on the same table and separate utensils are allocated to them! It’s no different from the Jewish badge that Jews were ordered to sew on their clothes
Recommend
Great arguments! Would other people of reason support the Ahmadis?
Recommend
better change the word in the title from ‘deciding’ to ‘declaring’. this would make sense.
Recommend
No one but the PPP can do that; and many like me wish it should before long. Its allies are secular.
Daring column in times of bigotry, hate and religious cult
Recommend
Another example of tolerance is Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, Turkey. Bastion of Christianity conquered by Muslim armies yet the religious symbols were left untouched. From Orthodox Basilica to Mosque and now museum, this is one of the greatest places of worship which brings different faiths together. Sadly for Pakistan, policy of appeasing the radicals which started with the Objective Resolution continued with ZAB declaring Ahmedis non-Muslim and now it has become state policy. Poor Jinnah, this is not what he envisioned, may he rest in peace and many thanks Saroop you are the beacon of light.
Recommend
“The state has no business deciding someone’s faith”
Great article and I concur with the author. However, when a state is formed on the basis of a faith and has that faith as the foundation of its constitution and names itself after that faith, how can one expect the state to have no business deciding someone’s faith? I would say it is a natural corollary to the state’s founding ethos.
Recommend
Another profound article. I am glad you preemptively tackled the hoarse cries of commenters, who, whenever the topic of extraordinary persecution faced by some groups comes up, resort to shameful excuses that “others are getting killed too!”, as if that makes it any better.
Recommend
I deplore the persecution of Ahmadis; in May 2010 it was the militants who killed 87 of their members. Today it is our state and judiciary which wants to kill their faith on the same venue.
Recommend
spot on…good article
Recommend
Thank you Ijaz Saroop for raising your voice for a marginalised community that has been targeted by extremists, aided by a provincial government that is wilfully blind to the actions of these extremists.Presumably the next step would be to ban Ahmadis from growing beards lest they be mistaken for being Muslims.The Land of the Pure has made a grotesque mockery all the beautiful tenets of Islam, and created a monster that not only seeks to devour Ahmadi Muslims, but will next turn its attention to other Muslims living in this land.Either we take a stand now or it may prove to be too late-for all of us!
Recommend
I would disagree, I think no one, has any business deciding someone faith.
Faith is a sacred privilege that no one has the right to dictate, being an Ahmadi myself, I know how it feels to be led around and be told what I have the permission to believe in and what not. I fully reflect the sentiments of the author that the time is right to put the record straight.
I mentioned this article to my wife and told her look, someone has the guts to write about this issue so openly and immediately she said ‘Well, it doesn’t matter what he wrote, there no one is willing to listen anymore is there?’. Sums it all up for us. But here is a hope, thanks Saroop.
Recommend
Absolutely fantastic article. No politician has the guts to speak about the rights of the Ahmadis or the Hazara shia.
Recommend
Many thanks for an excellent and brave article, once again, God bless you. If I remember my history right QA’s dream was to create a country where people could live in peace, and practice their freedom of religion, regardless of their faith, which we believe was not the case in India of those days. The very mullah who is now the standalone thaikedars of Islam were against the creation of Pakistan (Maudoodi faction included) based on that dream. Jama’at Ahmadiyya was in the forefront of realization of Quaid’s dream sacrificing lives and resources like another Pakistani. State’s responsibility is to take care of its citizen’s irrespective of their cast, creed, religion, race etc. especially being an Islamic Republic, they are accountable to Allah for such responsibilities. Can these people say they have administered their responsibility to the best of their ability? even if they want to, but are too intimidated by the nuisance value of the mullah, then I would advise they should at least not disrespect Islam and its values any more and remove the words Islamic Republic before Pakistan. May Allah have mercy because His wrath will be severe, swift and not in too distant in future.
Recommend
SI, I agree with you 100%. Another great Op Ed from you. It is nobody’s business how a certain sect makes their places of worship. They should be free and equal citizen to do whatever they want.
Recommend
As they say, if you cannot live among them, how can u live with them ??. Esp true for Muslims of Pakistan Vs pak minorities. The last line of the article is the punch. If this does not raise the consciousness of pakistanis, nothing will ever will.
Recommend
Mr Saroop Ijaz has donned the title Jinnah II, and quite befittingly. We know, however, that people in Pakistan did not have to go to actual physical extermination of Qaid-e-Azam: he has been repeatedly murdered by his own people since his physical passing not long after the birth of Pakistan.
It made nonsense of everything that Jinnah stood for when Pakistan was made an Islamic Republic. It made nonsense of everything that Jinnah stood for and of all vestiges of common sense when the people of Pakistan allowed themselves during Ziaul Haq’s tenure (1977-88) to go in for progressive Islamization, a process that has gone on since: no later leader was big enough to reverse the trend.
No State in our times can be built on the foundation of one religion – any one religion. If it is, it is negation of the principles that Jinnah espoused – see his speech of 11 August 1947 – and that Mr Saroop Ijaz apparently swears by today. How many people in Pakistan today really agree with this view?
Recommend
good article , only english writers r brave, urdu newspapers r sleepingRecommend
And the irony is that the Ahmedis were in the forefront of the demand for Pakistan in Punjab.
Recommend
Can we start with ourselves first? Lets make a pledge that we will speak out against this cruel behaviour, in our homes, in our places of work, and wherever else we hear anyone saying anything along these line. It needs to begin here, since even if the Federal Government declares that personal belief is not its business, our friends and relatives still make it their business to do so.
Recommend
“Lucky for him, I guess that he is not alive today. Since it is quite possible that Mr Jinnah would have been murdered by the faithful today just for that.” excellent article by Saroop.
I think the wise Jinnah would have had migrated from Pakistan long ago.
Recommend
The Ahmadiyya issue along with all other religion related issues can never be solved unless we declare Pakistan a secular country and a state that has nothing to do with the business of anyone’s faith. We need to go back to Jinnah’s vision of Pakistan otherwise we would see, God forbid, 71′s case studies.
Recommend
we have to spread the message of peace and love around the corner of the world, every person should have a a right to follow his religion and sect no matter who he or she is.stop discrimination in pakistan on the basis of religion and sect.
nice article hats of to the autorRecommend
Depends on the ‘character’ of the state.
A state claiming to represent and benefit all those who reside within its physical boundaries, may not get in the business of the creed of its subjects.
But an ideological state that is created for a specific group only has every business looking at the creed of those who claim to be its citizens. After all how does the state distinguish between those that it was created for and those that it was created against.
Irrespective of what Mr Jinnah did or did not say, the fact remains that Pakistan was created to secure the interests of Muslims and in order to do so Pakistan will have to decide who these Muslims are.Period.
The alternative i.e. a state claiming to look after all its citizens was very much there and was found to be not acceptable.
Recommend
Simply Wonderful with a bank of arguments..great work!
Recommend
The way it is very important to save people from Quack or impostor doctors, in the same way it’s very important and critical to save people from spiritual quacks and impostor/fake prophets. Thus state should play it’s role here as well
Recommend
@Acorn Guts:
“Well, it doesn’t matter what he wrote, there no one is willing to listen anymore is there?’”
Your wife is a wise woman. She totally understands that the opinion of a few has no impact on society which has a totally different opinion on this issue.
Recommend
Your article also worth a lot but I am amazed by your courage to speak for neglected ones.
Recommend
@Ilyad:
“If I remember my history right QA’s dream was to create a country where people could live in peace, and practice their freedom of religion, regardless of their faith, which we believe was not the case in India of those days.”
This comment is full of misinformation and against facts. Actually, the Indian congress wanted a secular India where anyone could practice their faith freely, with equal vote to all. Jinnah rejected this. Today, it is a fact that there is a lot more freedom in India compared to Pakistan with respect to freedom to practice one’s religion.
Another incorrect statement that you make is that “where people could live in peace, and practice their freedom of religion, regardless of their faith, which we believe was not the case in India of those days.” Muslims and other religionists always were living in peace and had all the freedom to practice their religion before 1947. Please open your world-view by reading material other than presented in Pakistan studies.
Recommend
There was a time when people would fight on differences. My God is better then your God, die you disbeliever!
How funny is this fight over similarities? Reciting Kalima, offering prayers, going to the mosque, saying Asalam o Aleikum, are good reasons to go to court and kill someone?
Kudos to the writer for shedding light on the subject. And for those who come up with questions like “others are killed as well” and “why is tribune so pro Ahmedi pro shia”, please get sum life.
We pray for our country, for the voice of sanity to prevail.
Recommend
Intact native culture, language should be encouraged. Old city names and old buildings shall be preserved.
Recommend
@Acorn Guts, even though i understand why your wife said that, I would say that we should appreciate the coverage of the subject and courage of writer.
Now we get to see some one writing on the subject, even if its only tribune from pakistan where these articles get published, Id say I am slightly less disturbed over the blanket silence.
And yes I do wonder if there would ever be a time when this subject would be covered in our urdu media.
Recommend
Kudos to you for your brevity to add your voice to un-islamic customs being carried out by Pakistani government & Co in the world. May Allah(S.W.T) reward you accordingly and abundantly-amen.
These inhumane acts are some of the reasons why some people regarded Islam as a religion that does not in anyway near the word-PEACE talkless of preaching it.
We pray Allah to enable them reason on time to make their states an abode of peace and religious tolerance
Recommend
In my opinion SI is not favoring any sect or group of people, at least I am not doing any favors to anybody but holding up the basic fundamental rights of worship for all people not just a few like us. People have a birth right to call themselves whatever they like and even change it when they wish. If we continue the policy of religious dictatorship what is next? Are we going to arrest people for naming their kids like Muslims? There is no limit of hatred and stupidity.
Recommend
Saroop,
Time after time, you have shown courage beyond the ordinary. Thank you.
Recommend
well written,we need the writers like Mr.Saroop Ijaz.Keep coming with the Jihaad of Pen,Surely it will prevail at one day.Jazakallah
Recommend
@Dr V. C. Bhutani:
No State in our times can be built on the foundation of one religion – any one religion.
How easily you have given you verdict upon it. Muslim countries are going to emerge as true muslim countries and the time is very close when all the so called secular coountries of the west will openly start calling themselves christian states since the changing demography have begin to haunt them for their future. The process of demarcation is moving very fast and there seems no future of ahmedis except to merge openly with non-muslims because of their fake belief on a false prophet.
And people like you are paving the way for the muslims to revitalize themselves. Because no matter how weak muslim have become Islam is still intact with all its reason and revelation.
Recommend
excellent!
Recommend
The Saroop Ijaz I like, just brilliant.
Recommend
I am proud of you Mr Saroop. I admire you courage and truthfulness. I only wish there were few more like you in my beloved Pakistan. I have almost lost my hope. But, I still pray that attitudes of ordinary people are changed sooner rather later. I fear for Pakistan. I was, once, a proud Pakistani.
Recommend
Wonderful piece by Mr Saroop Ijaz. I am however amazed that not a single respondent on this thread so far has condemned him for his heretical notion of equality and human rights for ahmadis.
that is even more heartening to behold.
Recommend
Kudo to Saroop for your forceful article. This is great service of the country. I am looking forward for some one to write on persecution of Ahmadis in AFGHANISTAN between 1897-1903 during the life time of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(1835-1908) the founder of Ahmadiyya Community. This may open up eyes of the “land of the pure.
Saroop live a long and healthy life.
Recommend
Glad you spoke up clearly. State is itself the cause of religious bigotry and violence in Pakistan. It needs to undo all laws that it has introduced on matters of religion.
Thank you again.
Recommend
I salute your courage to speak the truth despite all the risks involved with that Saroop,thats all i can say.
Recommend
@faraz:
Please add link
Thanks
Recommend
Great as always.
Recommend
@Truthbetold: …then I stand corrected sir, given minorities are treated much better in India, but please enlighten me as to then what could be the reasons for the then Muslim League to pursue Pakistan if all was so well? if India was, and is so, secular then why are there quotas based on religious representations? why are their Hindu Muslim riots every now and then, Babri Masjid, raid on Golden Temple – just to name a few instances from recent past – and not from distant past when hindus thought sub-continent was their ownership along with everybody living in it. I will await your response so I can broaden and correct my history. BTW my history does not come from pakistan studies but actually Muslim League senior members who worked with QA and later formed the first Pakistan Government.
Recommend
Pakisitani Govt. and Judiciary must act to ensure the security of minorities and their places of worship. no innocent blood no matter which religion they follow.
Recommend
Whoa dude,you hit the nail on the head.Very well put up.
Recommend
I’m an Ahmadi, I’m a hindu, I’m a jew, I’m a shia, I’m a sunni but I am not a muslim. I do not share the same religion as the people who preach this intolerance.
Namaste, Shalom, Ya Ali, Khudafez, High Five.
Recommend
Thanks a lot for such a good article. May Allah bless you more and more.May He be your Guide and Protector.
Recommend
@Hassan K Bajwa:
All the comments differed or opposed his point of view have been moderated and so is the fate of this comment my dear. Please do not be surprised.
Recommend
@ashar:
I appreciate your presentation. I am afraid I remain unconvinced by your logic and arguments. The facts are not in your favour. Nor is history.
The 58 so-called Islamic nations around the world and all the so-called “Muslims” in all countries of the world do not add up to much. As of today, in spite of its current financial difficulties, the US remains richer and more powerful than all the 58 countries put together. If it came to a showdown between the US and the 58, the outcome is not in doubt.
But I do not expect a showdown.
I wait for the results of better education in the 58 countries, so that people shall be able to think for themselves and not be slaves to misinterpretation of religious texts, whether Quran, Bible, or Gita, or any other. The greatest disservice to religion per se was done by those who were really obscurantists and set out to plead for the pristine purity of their religions. In the bargain they managed to make nonsense of their religions, whether Islam, or Christianity, or Hinduism.
But I have no doubt that better minds shall arise and shall prevail.
Recommend
@mudasir: how many ppl read english press?
Recommend
“Declaring Ahmadis as non-Muslim is the most disobliging skeleton in Mr Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s closet and it is time that the record be set straight, befittingly by his own party”. A popular misconception among the younger generation is that ZAB declared the Qadianis as non-Muslims. He didn’t, he was forced by the people of Pakistan to refer the question to Parliament, which unanimously declared Qadianis/Ahmedis/Lahoris to be outside the fold of Islam. BTW, the writer should read the works of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (founder of the Ahmediya religion). He categorically declared that his followers were of a different religion than the rest of the Muslims, and that his followers were the real Muslims (while all other Muslims were not Muslims).
Recommend
Running out of superlatives.Saroop, you are simply superb.
Recommend
I believe you are totally biased on this issue and donot want to allow anything in argument with the writer who would be now thinking himself to be the unopposed leader of the house.
Nothing could be achieved with this onesided approach of yours and the writer, Islam has survived many before and ahmedis are peanuts in comparison to them.
Long live Islam and Muslims May the wrath of Allah inflict upon those who want to malign Islam and Muslims.Recommend
this government is dull….they have nothing to do with the people of pakistan whether they are dying in blasts or target killing…
Recommend
@ashar: Western Liberal democracies are acting nuts not because they care more about religion, they are just afraid that Muslim immigrants will spoil their ethos with fanaticism.
It’s quite a legitimate fear, nothing progressive or peaceful has come out of Islamic believers in the last 50 years.
Recommend
@Shakir Lakhani: you are missing the point, the matter should not be in front of anyone to decide their faith, whether it is unanimously or otherwise by any parliament etc. it is a very personal matter. Hypothetically speaking how would you like your faith to be decided for you by the state on your 18th birthday?
Recommend
@Ilyad:
Your reply is very sincere and questions very valid. You have asked many big questions that will require a long answer and I need to take some time. I will compose an honest and truthful answer. Please do check back here. Thanks for the good debate.
Recommend
very very good article…
Recommend
@ Ilyad: it’s very strange, but my comment and your reply to it have both been removed from here (I think the editor realized that what I wrote may have hurt many people, because it was the truth). That said, although I believe that the National Assembly took the correct decision, we have no business killing anyone who belongs to a minority community. Members of this particular minority have been prohibited from pretending to be Muslims, they should follow the law of the land, and if they fail to do so, they should be prosecuted in a court (not killed).
Recommend
A breath of fresh air indeed! Hats off to Saroop for coming up so courageously with otherwise a taboo considered topic. We all live for the day when a man would be judged by his deeds and not by his name, religion or cast in this ‘land of pure’.
Recommend
@Ilyad:
You don’t even give them the right to name their community ,they call themselves Ahmadis( you call them Qadianis. .
Recommend
@Shakir Lakhani: Sir in your bias you are skirting the issue you tried to explain so eloquently, but you did not answer my question – how would like someone else to decide your faith or sect for you?
Recommend
@Ilyad:
You seems to be an elder ahmedi, yet the question you are trying to pose has long been answered. I wonder that you people are trying to use this forum for your debate on your stance unacceptable to every Muslim, while I believe that this forum will not help you.
Why don’t you go to the court and open this debate there and ask all of your supporters to bring their arguments so that the counter argument may be heard from the Muslim Ulema who are at present not participating in this debate while from your side all your scholars are on board like you.
Well, as for the question you posed, I would hate to have anybody else decide my religion or my faith for me because I am a Muslim not an ahmedi. Right?
Recommend
How many more Of such Articles needed I wonder to wake up Pakistanis.
Recommend
@ashar:
Are you referring to the same courts that will not punish Mumtaz Qadri despite undeniable evidence and will let go of Malik Ishaq? What good would that do?
Recommend
@Shakir Lakhani:
And by same principle if Muslims in Israel do not follow the law of the land is their prosecution just too? I am guessing you agree with punishment to Afia Siddiqui as it was given by a court.
Just because something is in the law doesn’t make it just; ?Recommend
Worth a read, great article! Shia’s are victims of discrimination in the very State they founded. And the plight of Ahmedis is just tragic.
Recommend
beside it is the best way to show your cowardliness that you don’t allow Ahmaddies to perform there obligatory duties properly and then declare them as a NON-MUSLIM community
A GREAT SHAME FOR THE WHOLE NATION!!!!
Recommend
When Killers of innocent become heroes what else can be expected from such minds….
But hope is always there when voice is raised by such brave scholars like you Mr. Saroop Ijaz
Recommend
@faraz:
Hello,
Can you provide the link for that article..Thanks!!!
Recommend
bravo atleast u tried to write truth . ALLAH bless u
Recommend
@ashar:
I have seen your comment only today, June 26, 2012.
You are welcome to your belief in Islam and its purity and its farreaching influences on the lives of those who follow it – ostensibly. Not many follow Islam really. Most people in today’s world see the spectacle of the peoples of the 58 so-called Islamic countries thinking fanatically of the greatness of Islam, which was once a fact but is not any longer. You may believe in the hopes and expectations that future may hold. In my view, those hopes and expectations are not going to be realized in the foreseeable future.
But that does not mean that you ar necessarily wrong or that I am necessarily right. The actuality may be just the other way around. Or, perhaps the actuality may be just the reverse of what you seem to believe.
Whatever my convictions, I am democratic enough to acknowledge that others have a right to believe as they like.
Meanwhile, I retain my convictions.
V. C. Bhutani, Delhi, India, 26 June 2012, 1944 ISTRecommend