According to a report by The Guardian, Warsi urged Muslim leaders to take steps against men who regard white women as "third-class citizens."
Earlier last week, nine Muslim men, mainly of Pakistani origin, were found guilty of abusing young girls for sexual gains.
The men were convicted at Liverpool Crown Court for a range of offences including trafficking within the UK, rape, sexual assault and conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child. They were part of a gang who had groomed vulnerable young girls in and around Rochdale, Greater Manchester. They were given prison sentences ranging from 4 to 19 years.
Police played down any racial connection, however, Warsi believes otherwise.
The report quoted her saying: "There is a small minority of Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game. And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first.”
"This small minority who see women as second-class citizens, and white women probably as third-class citizens, are to be spoken out against," she added.
Calling for action against such mindset on community level, Warsi said that "in mosque after mosque, this should be raised as an issue so that anybody remotely involved should start to feel that the community is turning on them."
"Communities have a responsibility to stand up and say: 'This is wrong, this will not be tolerated'."
COMMENTS (67)
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Sexual predators from the sub continent mainly India were caught red handed on camera by Chris Hansen of Dateline NBC. Perversion is not exclusive to any race or nation.
And pakistanis blame the world for their misery.
@American Desi: All youa re talking rubish. Keep out Islam in your comments. These dirty things ahs nothing to do with Islam. There are more than 1.5 Billion Muslims in all over the world. In America every 5 second one girl or woman is raped. American women organisations says this. which is one of the highest rate in the world. Those people who rape are not muslims.
And I am not a very handsome person either!
There is another side... I am a Pakistani and I am often harrassed by women, including teenagers. Many of them are Indians/English / I don't want to have sex with them due to some reasons but just imagine those who want to have? / How can we always blame men?
@Mirza and @gp65 Refer to your respectives posts. Thanks to both of you.You (both) have made an example of how civilised people conduct a discource. It was a lesson on civility.
This mind-set is not only confined with Pakistani Muslims but most Muslims all over the world. Behavior towards females in our own country is known to all. I hope these culprits will be deported by to Pakistan. They don't deserve all those facilities which they can not dream in their own country.
These men were not Pakistani men. They were Britishers of Pakistani descent. The British society has to determine how it will fix its problem of lack of integration of its minority populations. Pakistan has enough problems of its own - we can't be held responsible for the muck that is the British society.
@Mirza: I would say that this is a mindset of the north-western part of the sub-continent. It extends beyond Pakistan in to Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan and Western UP in India. That is not to say that exploitation of women doesn't happen elsewhere but in these parts of the sub-continent women are chattel. That's it. They are sub-human. I have lived in these parts of India and speak from personal experience. Delhi is one of the worst cities for women.
After reading whole case i do not agree with her......
@Jamshed,
Firstly, this is NOT about Dalit or Swiss. This is about Pakistani men in England. Two wrongs are not going to make one right, are they?
Secondly, could pls show ONE example of even Dalit women GROOMED (though this is too soft a word for such heinous crime) by say Brahmins in India? I am sorry but individual rape cases are common across both sides of border, I can point finger at Lahore and Karachi – again two wrongs do not make one right.
Face it – Pakistani men DO target white (and Sikh and Hindu) girls in England. This is a FACT.
Shame on you for trying to defend indefensible – 40-50 year old Men of Pakistani origin targeting 13-16 year old White girls for Sex!
@ Mirza, Thank you for your honest reply. I have written about Pakistani men I have met in England. Glad there are exceptions like you. Pls accept my sincere apologies.
Criminal scums come from all background and communities. She seems to take special pleasure in humilitating her own community to please her bosses who will never really respect her. Madam Warsi, keep your mouth close if you do not have any responsible comment to give.
Extreme thoughts of Warsi. One must condemn all kinds of extremism. Today's world needs to address such issues through mutual respect and understanding of different cultural & religious sentiments through promoting harmony and peace.The act of few individuals can't be referred as act of any community, race or religion.
@someone I can't agree with you anymore.
Surprise to see some Indians posting here! Please care to tell us why females are molested in India during festivals or new year eve? Every New year eve around 10/15 cases of molestation registered in India.
Sexual assault on anybody is a heinous crime, let alone children. However, singling out Pakistani men is unfair. In Warsi's own words "a small minotiry of Pakistanis" should not qualify her blaming their origin and not them. There have been instrances of sexual crimes against children in USA and UK, and even if the perpetrators were immigrants, never did any leader of those communities came forward and identified the crime related to a particular community. Criminals are just criminals, they should not be identified with their origin. The Barrones has the right to do some political scoring, but not at the cost of Pakistanis.
i don't think this sorry incident has anything to do with Pakistan but it has everything to do with Islam. Some people don't say this for being politically correct and some deny quoting some hadiths or some such things where status of women are exalted, But just look around, how women are treated in Islamic countries or the case like this. Few days after this incident they caught a Bangladeshi muslim in another part of UK for doing exactly same thing, exploiting a non-muslim child! If the women is a non-believer she is halal to be exploited! This medieval fascist mentality needs to stop!
@gp65: Thanks a lot, I appreciate that. Generalization of all as you said is the basis of all prejudices and should be avoided even in anger. Regards, Mirza
I believe that such things happen because there is mixing between the sexes in Muslim societies. By this I do not mean free sex. In Muslim societies by and large women are fully covered and therefore when Muslim men go berserk when they see a woman normally dressed i.e without a burqa or hijab. The thinking being that women who are not covered are of lose morals. 2-3 years ago an Imam in Sydney, Australia comapared uncovered women as meat to which cats and dogs get attracted implying that the fault lies with women and not men who prey on them. This is from a religious leader. What chance have we got to expect men to behave morally. As mentioned in some comments these men are not educated and thus not told what civil behavior is. We need to get rid of Imams who make statements as I have referred and educate our men and women to mix freely as friends. Free Muslims women by getting rid of the burqa and hijab. Muslims religion only asks both men and women to dress and behave modestly. I believe this will reduce the incidence of such immoral behavior by the arrested men.
Pakistani men are generally considered 3rd class citizens in most western countries (certainly in all Arab countries). Some even try to take on a black (United States) persona in order to be more accepted.
This issue occurs not only with Pakistani but the entire south asians(Indians and Bangladeshis included).. According to us,if a girl wears skimpy dresses,goes out for party and had sex with many people automatically means that we can approach her and she shouldnt refuse it....
Just because she kisses her boyfriend doesnt mean she will allow it from anyone else...I know many south asian guys who try to act like this to the girls in a pub and then get roughed up by the bouncers....
Reason why this woman has specified Pakistanis is that in Pakistan few things are allowed by law which are not allowed by India by law.....So they have the tendency to do more than Indians.....
@IndiKid: I am glad that a UK Pakistani has the guts to speak out against crimes- whether they are of Pakistani ancestry or any other background, wrong is wrong. Where were Indian community leaders when Indian men were trolling internet sites in the US and trying to have illegal sex with American teens? Their community should recognize the behaviour of some of their men too.
If something wrong, Than Pakistani and Pakistan Fault. Something good , than Proud Muslim And thank Allah I don't get it
warsi is only saying what her lords and masters want her to say, the statistics are that 95% of sex offenders are white british men. i fail to understand why she is making it a race and religious issue when the police have said it has nothing to do with race.
where is the labour party when you need them they should counter this tory misinformation.
These people are UK citizens, the crimes the committed were in UK. Referencing Pakistan in this whole episode is misleading, slander and non sense
Well why we are talking about Britian. Until recently I have seen many cases and even one girl committed suicide because she met the same fate which Many white girls have faced in the past but she was a Pakistani. The girls of Karachi of Urdu Speaking Community and Punjabi Girls of bigger cities of Punjab especially Lahore are considered Easy Meat and are sexually exploited as well. My two friends from North West until recently had affair with two girls from Lahore and even they had coitus and then afterwards they told me that Lahori girls are character less and they marry their cousins from North West and dump these girls. My one friend even have a relationship with 10 girls in Karachi all of Urdu Speaking community. So it is my request especially to Punjabi and Urdu Speaking Communities that Apart from Britian your girls are the considered Fair game in Pakistan. Even in some community the word Chewing Gum is used for such girls that use them, abuse them and then dump them. So beware of fellow Pakistanis as well and parents and girls should be beware as well.
@Jamshed..
I do agree there are prejudices for women in every country.. But no other community does it in the name of religion and god like muslims do... I am living in UK for the past 3 years and you believe me or not, i have met pakistani guys who say there is nothing wrong in treating white girls that way because they are "Kaffirs" and they also used to call them as "impure blood".. Show me another religion which does the same thing in the name of GOD.. You will find none..
Are those crimes, though reprehensible, any bit unusual or uncommon in that part of the world? No certainly not. So why so much of a fuss Did those men do anything that they should be misrepresented the way they have been by the media? So what is behind all the fuss? Racism. No doubt.
I thought that these men hold UK citizenship. How come they are Pakistanis???
@someone:
"Asian girls are also frequently raped and murdered by asian men in UK(indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis are all involved!) Its just that it does not make the headlines like in this case. .... Also note that the pakistani immigrants in Australia and Canada are more educated and skilled and hence you will not see such instances from pakistanis in Australia or Canada. Even the educated and skilled Pakistanis in the UK that work in white collar jobs (a little percentage) are law abiding people."
As I my self spent quite some time in the Greater Manchester Area over the past 20 years and also lived in Canada for couple of years, I interacted with all sorts of people from Pakistani and Indian communities, I can confirm your observation. However, I would add that white girls are relatively soft targets for the criminal minded people due to their liberal social and moral conditioning compared to other communities. The issue is not just confined to Pakistanis, Indians, and Bengalis, but more severely with the black population. The difference, however, is that Pakistani media and people make it, out of proportions, an issue of national level, while the others keep it in the proper context.
@HQ: "Just because a very very small group (just 9 men) turned out to be of Pakistani origin somehow – this news item is being highlighted.
"
It is not just because of this one trial. There is a trend. In 24% of grooming cases, Paistani men are involved even though they constitute only 1% of British population.
Failed to understand Ms. Warsi logic n deep anger against Pakistani's. A crime was committed n group was punished matter resolved. Now, to just single out Pakistani's n start lecturing "white girl fair game, women 2nd or 3rd grade etc" was/is itself indicate Ms. Warsi intention is different. Just for Ms. Warsi information, such businesses are in Europe, USA n related western countries since the dark ages/still exist (owned/run by white men). Salavery was/is still practice in these countries. This case was/is shameful n discusting but, it should not be used just targeting Pakistani's.
@Mirza: " I feel sorry and hurt. How could you say that not a single Pakistani would stand up against it? Have you not read a single of my post?"
Please do not be hurt. Aryabhat maybe new to these boards. Many of us HAVE read your posts and find them a voice of reason. In any case, I think when anyone makes a generalization that includes a 10% of population - ALL Hindus, ALL Indians, ALL PAkisanis, NO Indians No Pakistanis etc., they should be read as SOme Hindus, Pakistanis, Indians etc.
@Truth Bites: "dont know why Warsi singeling out Pakistani men, even if this exists, its Asian men not just Pakistani"
Indians and Pakistanis are almost same population in UK. 24% cases had a Pakistani involved and less than 1% case had an Indian involved. So to give a broad label of Asian is unfair to Indian men. It IS a Pakistani issue.
@turabalir: "All this talk if religious leaders.The schooling starts at home folks ,I don’t think this has.anything to do with religion"
the religin may not be teaching this but the religious leaders may be implying that women who do not dress 'modestly' are unworthy of respect. This in turn maybes used by these twisted people to justify their actions. The fact that with about 1% of population, British Pakistanis are involved in 24% of such cases does show you a trend that cannot be ignored.
To be honest, it is a new trend propagated among street youths of Muslim origin by lay Islamic clerics regardless of nationality. I am sure people who comment here have observed.
The Baroness has a point worth contemplating and it is up to British law makers to find the cause and try remedy it, which I am sure they will.
More is yet to come and heard of pakistani society and its bigotry. Asifs, Hafeez, OBL, Taliban, these rogues in Britain.....the list goes and goes on.... I wonder what these fellows will do if allowed to come to Bangladesh or India. It is not acceptable to include Indians and Bangalseshis under Asian men with Pakistanis. They should be called Pakistanis.
White colour girls or women are most wanted girls and women when proposals for marriages are exchanged through parents or directly.
Most of the Pakistan men go abroad particularly to Western Countries for study or employment purpose and during their stay over there, they marry a white colour girl or women.
In my opinion and having heard so many stories about Pakistani men marriages, white colour girls or women are not third class citizens but they are the first class citizens and most wanted girls and women as far as marriages are concerned.
These men were born raised in Britain what Pakistan has to do with them?
@Shock Horror: im not at all not saying that there isnt any problem in Britishi-Pakistani men, you could tell that if you read my first comment! What im saying is that mentioning "Pakistani" only when something bad happens from that community is not fair! Amir Khan, Owais Shah or Zayn Malik kind of people re never mentioned as Pakistani British in British media but only as British, where as a terrorist or rapist is caught being of Pakistani origin, all of a sudden the country of origin becomes a big deal! And as far as Pakistani media is concerned, if you follow Pakistani media, you cant help but notice how a foreign terrorist of Pakistani origin is made a deal! You keep hearing words like "Pakistani nizshad Amreeki/Bartanwi dehshatgard" again and again!
@Jamshed: * However Aryabhat and Jayesh should look in their own back yards and see if they can spot the treatment of dalits or women – third class or sub-human treatment is debatable. Perhaps Aryabhat also needs to check on the number of rapes being committed in New Delhi alone before pointing fingers at other animals. I remember a report on BBC where a Swiss diplomat was raped in a parking lot – with statistics showing a rape in India every 1/2 hour, Mr. Aryabhat should not take pleasure in a criminal act just because it was committed by people of Pakistani origin.*
as someone has already pointed out, the cover given to them is by constitutional provisions, and are followed to the letter. and about the rape cases, well in india when they are reported the women are not required to produce four 'men' who had witnessed the proceedings. a medical test is done for them. that said, it's not about the behaviour at home, but abroad. and in those terms indians are lot better than pakistanis. i retierate it once agaiin, that education has no bearing on how a man will behave with a 12 year old girl. because our and your villages have lots of illiterate men who take great care of the girls and would protect their modesty at the cost of their lives.
it's got something to do with the upbringing, and culture at home.
And then they go around teaching others morality, virtues of being Muslims, and criticizing other faiths of the world. Hope someone may listen to what Baroness Warsi is saying.
BTW, this does not end here, the greatest of all ironies is that these same men will happily perform honor killings.. they are true scums of the earth. Muslim men need introspection.
@Aryabhat: I feel sorry and hurt. How could you say that not a single Pakistani would stand up against it? Have you not read a single of my post? I fully agree with the rest of your post and kudos to you and ET for publishing it. I have been addicted to ET for over a year and it is like I have hit a lottery. I agree that this is the mindset of many Pakistani male. It originates from the same mentality that keeps our women inside and covered and the rest is fair game. I know Pakistanis working in foreign companies in Pakistan and stealing stationary among others and preaching me Islam. When I told them about their theft they said "it belongs to Jews and Christians". Hurting other kids is fine as long as ours are safe. It is about time that the world treats these men like they should be. To me they should have been put away for life. In today's papers there is news about Pakistanis in Canada and their immigration rate is declining while poverty is increasing.
Thanks and regards, Mirza
http://dawn.com/2012/05/16/pakistani-canadians-falling-below-the-poverty-line/
one more thing to note: why is it that if one is a boxer or cricketer, he's British and if one is a rapist or terrorist, he is a Pakistani?
@Truth Bites:
Does this answerr your query?
Groups representing Sikh and Hindu communities have complained about the term "Asian" being used to describe the men involved in grooming trials.
@IndiKid: So what is the truth, please enlighten us?
@Jamshed: you know you talk about india rape case in india 40% rape case done by muslims and muslims have highest number of criminal record in india .and you talk about india in INDIA .Dalits and backward Muslims(4.5) got 35% affirmative action in all Indian educational institutions, all public sector companies and even PROMOTIONS within those companies. NAME ONE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WHICH GIVES SUCH PRIORITY TO ANY ONE MINORITY COMMUNITY ?How many reservation got shiya,ahmediya muslim, hindus, christen in pakistan ?hindus/sikhs are given no preference in education and yet, they somehow seem to succeed everywhere ! haha.and one more thing indian dalit litteracy rate is higher than pakistan and bangladesh muslims.
As an expat who grew up in UK......there is no doubt in Warsi's statement. Unfortunatly, this kind of attitude certainly exists in large Asian communities.....to what extents, its anybodys guess! Being in denial and hiding the truth is disgraceful and people should be ashamed of themselves. I fail to understand, how these same people than 'fly' the islam flag and feel offended when the west questions it!
Having said that it is prudent to note, that the 'white' english men get their same 'lustful' thrill by going to southest asia on holiday, in particular Thialand to abuse poverty stricken children. So strictly speaking these issues exist in all sociaties and not just pakistanis.
Glad they were convicted. In Pakistan, sadly, they would have been let off and the girls charged with prostitution.
The crimes of these hideous demons need to be punished. However Aryabhat and Jayesh should look in their own back yards and see if they can spot the treatment of dalits or women - third class or sub-human treatment is debatable. Perhaps Aryabhat also needs to check on the number of rapes being committed in New Delhi alone before pointing fingers at other animals. I remember a report on BBC where a Swiss diplomat was raped in a parking lot - with statistics showing a rape in India every 1/2 hour, Mr. Aryabhat should not take pleasure in a criminal act just because it was committed by people of Pakistani origin.
All this talk if religious leaders.The schooling starts at home folks ,I don't think this has.anything to do with religion.
Seriously, I thank Lord for being a Pakistani-American and not Pakistani-Brit! i fail to understand why haven't they succeeded and moved forward although they had the oppurtunities to :/ why have they failed to assimilate and integrate in the broader British society :/
This act on the part of these men needs to be condemned in the strongest possible words. The incident should not be used as pretext for blame one community or the other. However, it is the duty of the religious leaders within the community to work for changing the degenerated mind set of the common men within the community.
Madam wrasi ,we are strongly supporter of you in this case. women are integral part of the society,so society without proper connection and involvement of women in the social activity of life then ultimately the society will be parlayed. the men are nothing without women. we have to respect the women because we are also having women as sisters ,wife,Mom in our home.
@John, the atheist: You have to wonder why !
"Third-class citizens" ?? Lol !! And yet Pakistani men will do anything to get a visa to any western country ! Amazing !!
Intentions are good, but it needs to be seen if the Pakistani community takes the onus upon itself to weed out the pedophiles. Rgds P
No matter what the crime is... Fingers are always pointing towards pakistan...
I agree with Baroness Warsi except the part the part that it is "Small minority" of Pakistani men!
I have lived in England for 10 years and interacted with large no. of Pakistani men and women. For ALL Pakistani men, Pakistani Girls are out of bounds for any men but Paksitani (or Arabic muslim), while ANY White (Or Hindu or Sikh) girl is "Fair game"!
Could you imagine the outcry in Pakistan IF Pakistani girls were targetd by White men like in this case? 40-50 year old men raping (because "grooming" is too wrong word - this can't be grooming) 13-16 year old girls?
I challange even if ONE Pakistani will come out openly and criticise it unconditionally - and doubt if ET will publish this.
Finally , the truth coming out.