Federal Finance Minister Ishaq Dar, while addressing a ceremony in Islamabad on Tuesday, confirmed that Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) leadership will discuss the issue of talks with PTI on Wednesday.
Dar said that PTI Chairman Imran Khan’s statement, where he claims that he will not accept a Judicial Commission’s judgement that goes against his will, had forced the government to check before resuming talks.
The finance minister said that the entire exercise of negotiations with PTI would be useless, if the PTI chief wants to see a result of judicial commission as per his wishes.
However, Dar added that if the judicial commission fails to find any rigging in the May 2013 elections, then Imran will have to issue an apology.
Separately, PML-N sources said that Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif arrived in Islamabad on Tuesday and met with the prime minister along with select PML-N leaders and deliberated over the negotiation issue. Reportedly, they have suggested that the government resume talks with PTI immediately.
They further agreed that on Wednesday, Nawaz will discuss the agenda for talks with senior leaders of the PML-N and take on board leaders of other political parties.
According to sources, PTI is willing to resume talks from where they broke off, while the government wants to resume talks on fresh points.
The PML-N believes that PTI is not in a position to dictate demands. Instead, the PML-N has agreed to provide PTI a chance to save face and not to go deep into definitions of legal affairs regarding rigging.
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@Aamir - Toronto: For someone who lives in Toronto, it surprises me that you don't get. For example, I am not big fan of the current Prime Minister Stephen Harper but he has earned the right to rule and no one can take away his mandate outside of parliament. When you agitate, it should be within the system. If you don't like any particular politician, vote them out but stop the silly Arab Spring style Dharnas that only make the country look like a joke. For the record, I would say that Nawaz Sharif is doing more to fix the energy crisis in just one year than Musharraf's dictatorship did in 9 years. The infrastructure, energy and economic policies of PML N are the reasons why he is supported by overseas Pakistanis. All the paid PTI trolls cannot erase the reality that most Pakistanis in Pakistan and overseas support Nawaz Sharif as long as he keeps working for the country like he is doing. We can also vote him out in 2018 if he doesn't live up to expectations.
The band-wagon effect seems to be taking a toll of your intellect. PTI’s strength is whittling away as seen by its inability to hold a rally at the Ghanta Ghar chowk of Faisalabad. If and when confronted in Karachi and Lahore, you shall witness that those “lockdowns” are going to be failures. Without the backing of the establishment, IK would not be able to stand the PML-N peoples’ onslaught but because of the fear of the establishment, PML-N wants to stop the situation from turning into a civil war, which again could lead to coup. The genie of IK would be put back in the bottle when the case against Musharraf fizzles out. Watch that.
@H Chaudhry:
My friend, you are missing the crux of my argument. Let me try again as well :) Lets stick to the same assumption that PMLN are innocent of rigging.
1) I’m not saying PMLN do not have a right to take a stay order, of course they do. My point is, that if they had not done any rigging, then there is no need for them to take a stay order. They should be more eager to verify the votes than PTI because they know they are innocent and PTI is wrong. The vote verification will only back PMLN, no? That’s why to me it doesn’t make sense why an innocent person (Ayaz sadiq for example) would want to delay verification which will prove his innocence.
2) I never said PMLN should open the 4 constituencies, I agree it is not in their legal remit. But why take stay orders to delay/stop the legal entity that can open them? See point 1 above. In any case, we are both grown up to know how power works in Pakistan….if PMLN wanted them opened, they would have been opened by now. But I’ll let that point go.
3) Again, you are missing the point. Remember the assumption. PMLN are innocent, why take stay orders. My issue is not with PMLN legal’s right to take a stay order, but their motive for taking one. Do they want vote verification or not? I think I’m starting to repeat myself.
4) See my point 2 above as well. Now we’re both repeating ourselves!
5) Great, can’t wait for investigation to start. But even investigating systematic rigging, will require certain constituencies to be investigated in detail. I hope PMLN and PTI agree on a wide enough sample, and I hope PMLN from their strong negotiating position include some seats in KP as well…just for balances sake.
Thank you for respecting my enthusiasm. Likewise.
However, I’m not demanding that PMLN don’t take stay orders or the law doesn’t follow its course (although something that should have been done in 3 months is taking more then one year, so I do have an issue with the speed at which the wheels of justice move).
Again, my point is, WHY do they need stay orders if they are innocent. Look, this isn’t a complicated legal case….its quite simple. Open bags, verify votes against form 14,15,16 and thumbprints. That’s it. All the stay orders taken by PMLN have been to delay this process. I can’t imagine what they want differently….open only a certain number of bags, don’t verify thumb impressions? IF we going to do it, lets have an extensive recount and sort the matter out once and for all. The plaintiff is paying for the costs anyway.
You of course have a right to vote for whoever you want. And no doubt that PMLN is the largest party in Punjab. But exactly how much larger then PTI I can’t say. No doubt they got some legitimate votes, but they also got some votes via rigging. Let me tell you my experience…my cousin was a polling agent in Lahore for PTI. At the time of vote counting, he caught the PMLN polling agent trying to stuff the bags with pre-stamped PMLN ballots. He complained to the RO and got those votes disqualified, but the RO would not lodge a formal complaint saying the issue has been sorted there. Therefore, no punishment for the person trying to rig. I wonder how many other polling agents got away with similar behavior. By the way, I have posted this before and got called a liar….but I fear Allah and my conscious is clean.
And no doubt PMLN have done some good work, but mainly in infrastructure. Their record on education, health etc. isn’t much to speak about. And in police reforms they have totally failed.
Just today I saw that the unofficial report into Faisalabad investigation is blaming police inaction and PMLN workers for the unfortunate death of the PTI worker in Faisalabad…..no doubt this report will never be officially released by CM Punjab.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/805332/inquiry-committee-lays-blame-over-faisalabad-clashes-on-pml-n-workers-police-inaction-sources/
ET, thanks for publishing.
One more try
@Kalli, @Salman and @ Pakistani
My friends your comments are neither amazing nor grown up emotional pleas rather reflecting your opinion. That is fine but that is not logical and here is why 1) You say Stay order is part of process but the accused should not have taken it because it is illogical. Who are you to say that it is illogical and how much do you know about legal proceedings. Plain and simple, Stay orders are a tool and using it neither Illogical nor wrong. Stay order allow an accused to get time for ample defense, counter evidence. Saying PMLN MNA's should not take / hide behind stay order is so much wrong of a statement, it cant be defended. I will just stop here. 2) You say PMLN should have open 4 constituencies. This is again materially wrong as PMLN or any other Government can not open any seats. Why because it is AGAINST THE LAW. Only way it can be done is through an Ordinance which is passed in NA and Senate. NA is PMLN majority and Senate is PPP so there is no guarantee it would have passed. BUT important question is why AMEND LAW to make on party happy. Sorry things don't work like that and WILL NEVER every work like that. PTI/Imran have to live with this fact. 3) You say why get stay orders, Well again because You don't know exactly what is the case. To my understanding the case from PTI people has frivolous arguments so best defense is to take Stay order and find counter arguments. It is a process and you HAVE TO WAIT for it. There is just No other way or any one including Imran should not take stay orders but check the stay orders others have taken. Either ban Stay orders from every aspect of Law or learn to live with it. You can not have both ways. 4) You say about opening the bags, see my comment above! Govt can not do that and again learn to live with process. 5) Who is saying Investigation and Reforms should not be done side by side? Reforms are already done in Parliament. Investigation WILL HAPPEN, once PTI will agree to terms. The terms WILL include investigation in weather there was an ORGANIZED rigging or not. This is what PTI / Imran claimed correct, Ex CJP, Army Chief, MI Brigadier, etc Rigged whole elections to get PMLN. This is what PMLN is saying, Investigate this claim. While PTI is running away from this and wants Seat by Seat investigation. Regardless, PMLN will do Investigation but on Its OWN terms. This is just because PMLN is in better negotiating position.
I think I have to respect your enthusiasm for PTI but in making arguments and that too legal you just can not WISH for things like why take stay orders. World does not work like that. This is a process and system is working with few PMLN MNA deseated, few PMLN ones got seats, few PTI ones deseated etc. Law is working. Demanding that law works the way you want and right now wont happen sorry.
Finally, as a Punjabi I can tell you that Punjab is solidly behind PMLN because they have delivered. PTI is second largest party and a growing one but PMLN is right where it is. I know my vote and my family vote will always be PML but we are not alone. Here is a quantitative example. PMLN lost Multan seat by 10,000 votes in 2013. Javed Hashmi backed by PMLN lost the same seat in by polls by 14,000 votes. Result and margin of defeat is either same or with in error. The data shows PMLN at the height of PTI's popularity still maintatined its vote bank. Similary in other by polls last week, PMLN backed candidates each grabbed 47K votes. PMLN is the largest party weather you like it or not.
hoping ET will publish the comment this time.
@Rex Minor: Long time! By the by, I agree with your comment!
@H Chaudhry: Still waiting for your reply on Salman's amazing comment.
We need ISI and MI in the Joint investigation team as this was agreed before the negotiations stopped and now they are running away from it, we can not trust any institution or department working under this government as PML N is very famous for nepotism and Police, IB and bureaucracy is fully influenced or pressurized by this illegitimate government, what evidence you need if all the parties who participated in the elections allege rigging, even PML N allege that elections were rigged in SINDH, there intentions are not correct and they will do what ever they can to influence the investigation,
Imran Khan is struggling for change not for himself but for the sake of country. He is true patriotic leader. These two parties PML-N and PPP have failed many times. They don't know how to govern. I am not saying Imran Khan can govern but at least he has not been tested as yet. Nawaz Shareef can be a good businessman but not a politician. He should have resumed talks before. Our whole system need re-engineering. The solution to the problem in my view will be to form government full of technocrats which do reforms to make this system better. These technocrats should be backed by judiciary and military. The corrupt people should be made accountable and their money should be brought back to Pakistan. Elections are not solution unless reforms takes place. Although people called General Pervaiz Musharaf dictator but I believe he is very democratic and intelligent leader. During his tenure Pakistan was going to become next emerging economy. We as nation should respect these honourable and competent people who can deliver and take our country towards progress and development.
May Allah save this country from Anarchists like IK as he is spreading a foreign hand agenda who cannot see Chinese investment coming into Pakistan. IK need s to grow up and show some performance in KPK.
So where is the promise of the govt to start the negotiations on previous Sunday. i am fully convinced that PMLN is the outcome of massively rigged elections of 2013.
where is so called experienced team, not being able to decide negotiations?
Enter MQM! Things will change soon, as it is not PTI that PMLN is dealing with, it is the dreaded Establishment. But PMLN does not get it. Does it?
@Dawood: he might be a last hope for you, We have our hopes on ALLAH.
Why should Government negotiate with an anarchist like Imran Khan?? We the people of Kpk are tired of his dirtiest politics.
@salman: You just nailed it bro. H Chaudhary sahab please for once think logically. You have to think rationally. I cannot help you change if you are a beneficiary of PMLN or a paid troll. But I don't think you are one of them. You have seen 20 years of performance of PMLN in the complete Punjab. the Poor are getting poorer and the rich richer. I will pray for you and my self that Allah guide us to chose and support the right leader. Ameen.
@Real Truth: Yea, the people who gathered where actually on a face book page of Faisalabad. And the Dharna page of face book is reported to be spam. Wake up Real truth and come in to the real world. Close your FB and laptop; and step out into the real world.
Why negotiations? Why not Iron Hand?
Noonies are delaying unnecessarily like they did for Zarb i Azb.
IK should stick to his agenda 5.5 points already agreed NS wants to drag on until Senate elections in Feb/March
Go Nawaz Go, Go Away Nawaz, Go Nawaz Go
@H Chaudhry: OK..let's be grown up and talk logically. In fact I'll even take your side. Let's make an assumption. Pmln did not do any rigging. Although all parties have said there was rigging, pmln are the only ones who said there was no rigging. I think that's a fair assumption based on many statements by pmln.
Now along comes Ik and says there was rigging. He asks for vote verification on 4 halqas. Pmln run and get stay orders. Now if we go by the assumption that pmln did not rig, why run and get stay orders? I understand stay orders are part of the legal process but if someone like saad rafiq is truly innocent he would have said "go ahead and open the bags I have nothing to hide". But he didn't. The best way to shut up ik would be to prove him wrong. That seems logical. But pmln did the exact opposite.
Then the situation escalates. Remember the assumption? Pmln are innocent. So why not agree to the investigation demanded by ik. It would only prove ik wrong. Pmln do exact opposite by trying to restrict terms of reference. Again...not logical.
I do agree that nawaz should not resign until investigation is over. And ik has sensibly taken back that demand.
As for the fact that some rigging always happeneds and we need reforms... I agree. But investigate and punish the guilty for last elections. So we need investigation and reforms side by side. That seems logical.
Please let me know if this response is grown up..otherwise I will try and grow up some more tomorrow.
As for people power of pmln...yeah maybe...but so called pti burgers are matching pmln inch for inch...and just like McDonalds, the burgers keep on coming :)
Et...please publish...took me ages to write this on my crappy phone!
Imran Khan we are with you!
Pakistan Zindabad!
@Hasan Abdal wala: good job! shows how much effort has gone into your upbringing, that you immediately jump to NS' family members!!! Could it be that other than targeting NS family members, you are bankrupt, i.e., empty up there???
Among all the sound and fury let it not be forgotten that what PTI is now asking was available to it on a silver platter in late August / early September. Shows what a bunch of political immatures are these PTI wallahs. The demand for PM resignation was ridiculous to start with and found no takers among even the independent media or majority of the population.
The idiotic politics of PTI has in fact given a new lease of life to NS and his cronies. PTI workers are therefore right in questioning the political wisdom of their leaders and the blind alley in which they have taken this once promising party.
@Rex Minor: The band-wagon effect seems to be taking a toll of your intellect. PTI's strength is whittling away as seen by its inability to hold a rally at the Ghanta Ghar chowk of Faisalabad. If and when confronted in Karachi and Lahore, you shall witness that those "lockdowns" are going to be failures. Without the backing of the establishment, IK would not be able to stand the PML-N peoples' onslaught but because of the fear of the establishment, PML-N wants to stop the situation from turning into a civil war, which again could lead to coup. The genie of IK would be put back in the bottle when the case against Musharraf fizzles out. Watch that.
@Pakistani: only because he is scared his family business is in jeopardy. most lazy, backward and senseless prime minister in the history of Pakistan.
@Real Truth: In the same capacity that pmln were shouting go zardari go a couple of years back. Remember that? :)
@Aamir I think you are morally blind but whom am I to call names. That is the low character quality of Imran and his cronies/followers. Good for you to support IK. I will support system and my vote for PMLN till my last drop of blood. 2018 are next elections and that's only when they will happen.
@Salman You need to get a grip on law and reality. PMLN should not and must not negotiate with PTI going forward. Enough chances were given to PTI. Its time to move forward. As for inquiry in to rigging. PMLN is not stopping any one or the Judicial commission. PMLN is telling PTI the conditions on which commission work. PMLN wants and rightfully so, that objective of Commission should ONLY be to see if there was an ORGANIZED rigging. Offcourse there was none so PTI will lose and they don't agree to it. Every thing else always happened and to fix it Reforms are needed. What writing on the wall? PMLN already showed it people power few times. There is no way to send PM home and nor will he go any where. WE VOTED for PMLN to be in power for 5 years. Wait for 2018, you may have PTI making next government, thought highly unlikely. Stay orders are part of the Law. It is an instrument. Law is a process. Stay order is RIGHT of accused and accuser. PMLN and other people including those of PTI that take Stay Order are using their constitutional rights. Here is your logical answer. I hope it make sense but you may need to grow up a little to get the facts.
@Real Truth:
in what capacity, he is authorized to ask for the resignation of a democratically-elected PM
If by "democratic" you mean fraudulently then you are absolutely right!
The bags MUST open!
Nawz can also consult with his mother Shamim. And and his wife Kalsoom . And Maryam his daughter. Then no one can accuse him of leaving the women out.
I don't support PTI and I don't support PMLN but I do want a clean election. That's my right as a citizen.
@Dawood: You are a priceless human being or a creature..should be awarded at this year's presidential ceremony.
We need ISI and MI in the Joint investigation team as this was agreed before the negotiations stopped and now they are running away from it, we can not trust any institution or department working under this government as PML N is very famous for nepotism and Police, IB and bureaucracy is fully influenced or pressurized by this illegitimate government, what evidence you need if all the parties who participated in the elections allege rigging, even PML N allege that elections were rigged in SINDH, there intentions are not correct and they will do what ever they can to influence the investigation,
@Rex Minor: Mind enlightening us as to who IK is, and in what capacity, he is authorized to ask for the resignation of a democratically-elected PM? Could it be because IK has the capacity to gather some Facebook junkies? :-)
@Dawood.....For God sake, what did he do for the nation & country that you are so much in love with him. This guy and his cronies are trying their best to ruin the country.
@HEART.....Pot calling the kettle black. It is the right of every sane person to protest if he/she didn't get justice. PML-N rigged the election and claimed their victory of false basis, how could you expect an ordinary person to stay clam in the prevailing situation. PML-N treat Pakistan like their personal property and they are under the impression that they can get away by killing innocent people whoever stand-up to their rule.
@Rex Minor.....Sir Imran Khan withdrew his demand of Nawaz's resignation.
@H Chaudhry.....Rest assured that we will continue to support Sir Imran Khan and his Dharna till the last breath because he is fighting for our future. Alas, people like you will never see the reality because they are morally blind.
@H Chaudhry: Yes...backward thinking is to be expected from pmln.
What's even more backward is that pmln still don't see the writing on the wall if they don't see the movement rapidly growing.
If they take a uturn on what they previously agreed, it won't turnout well for them.
Anyway, if they didn't rig, why are pmln so afraid of an independant enquiry? Why do they keep taking stay orders? To date no pmln supporter has been able to provide a logical answer.
Same backward thinking! There is NO need to talk with PTI. Imran can continue his dharna for 4 years. Govt should and must do what it promised instead of wasting time with PTI.
IK is not calling for negotiations but the resignation of the Prime Minister? Whats the matter with this guy; must the supreme court ask him to leave ? His time is up; he must return to the UK and take care of private enterprise allowing Imran Khan to rule.
Rex Minor
May save Pakistan from anarchy and chaos created by PTI. Aameen.
For once PM Nawaz Shariff show some maturity. I beg you.
Allah bless Nawaz Sharif. He is the only hope for Pakistan.