Moscow's move to supply Islamabad came as New Delhi is seeking to modernise its armed forces' ageing hardware and has recently chosen to buy arms from Israel, France, Britain and the United States. DESIGN: ESSA MALIK
"Such a decision has been taken. We are holding talks on supplying the helicopters," Chemezov said, adding that the negotiations were about Russian Mi-35 Hind attack helicopters.
Russia has long been the largest supplier of arms to India, which is the world's top arms buyer.
But Moscow's move to supply Islamabad came as New Delhi is seeking to modernise its armed forces' ageing hardware and has recently chosen to buy arms from Israel, France, Britain and the United States.
Leading Russian defence commentator Pavel Felgenhauer said the lifting of the embargo that had been in force since the Soviet era marked a sea change in Russian policy on arms sales, which until now have been focused on India amid difficult relations between New Delhi and Islamabad.
"This is an important, key change in Russian policy in the region," he told AFP.
"The sale of arms to Pakistan will abruptly worsen our relations with India, the main buyer of our arms... This risks dismantling our cooperation with India," Felgenhauer said.
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lol@ indians for this much concern.....I guess Russians think if India can get its hardware from USA n other Nato countries why couldn't v sell our MI35's to pk......No doubt its a major shift in Russian approach and it must be seen with the backdrop of present Ukrainian situation....Russian obviously getting ready to flex its muscles after more than two decades and I really hope Pakistan don't miss out this time to mend ties, which Russia had tried so many times in past and had failed due to our stupid and sold out politicians.
@Sudhanshu Swami: Did we as Pakistani ask for your opinion? We do not need your hypothetical explainations. I hope and like you to mind your own affairs.Thanks in advance.
Russia says it never had any embargo of arms to Pakistan, so there is no question of lifting it and it will sell only those arms to Pakistan which will not affect its relations with India. The only case being considered is for helicopters. Russian memories are as long as Indians' and they will never forget the role Pakistan played during their years in Afghanistan. America is coming to the same conclusion, finally. Rest of world, like all wise men, learn from the experience of others. Pakistan seems to have the knack of "how to make enemies and keep everyone away".
Pakistanis used to entertain themselves that they are so brave that broke Russia(USSR), Taliban are their friend, are mujahideen. And now they need Arms from Russia to fight Taliban hiding in mountains !
Evil is drawn toward evil naturally.
@hmm: Keep dreaming on. Who is going to stop terrorists, Taliban's, killing of doctors, layers, journalists, professors, non-Muslims, power shedding, intimidation of press and list keep going on. In order to achieve something a country needs stability, harmony, respect of citizens of all faiths, economic stability, free press. etc. country where every body feel safe. Buying guns and no butter does not make a nation great. No matter Pakistan has all the resources but it make no sense if resources has no meaning till they materialized and used . Buying helicopters from Russia, USA, japan, China, etc. make no sense when country is in turmoil, state of confusion, disorder, mess, and chaos.
@Strategic Asset: Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.
ET: 2nd attempt.
For all the Pakistani commentators out here (especially the minor one):
What makes you think that Russia did not consult India before this deal?
Pakistanis may have forgotten their jihad in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union, but what makes you think the Russians have?
What makes Pakistan think that a single sale of helicopters will result in them getting access to all the weapons in Russia's arsenal?
@antanu do you even know what diplomacy means? When any country plans to take a decision and knows it might impact their most important bilateral relationship which will affect them. They take all stakeholders on board,consult them and move forward with a decision judging by its pros and cons knowing it won't affect their relationship. That doesn't mean you need someone's permission. It means to value the relationship enough to not jeopardise it.
@SHB: do you think the political parties have any say in this matter
@Rex Minor: It seems that you are the 'brain' of Putin.
@Raj - USA: In 1992, the Soviet Union had collapsed (1991) and Indian markets were in a tail-spin due to the Dalal Street scandal. The disintegration of the Soviet Union saw their highly regulated (not free-market) currency depreciate significantly from around 2 dollars for every rouble in 1992 to 5,000 roubles for a dollar within months. Subsequently, the Russian rouble was recast at 1,000 old roubles for every new Russian rouble.
India had 9.87 billion roubles in outstanding debt to Russia, a huge amount at the time. When Boris Yeltsin came to India in 1993, India and Russia renegotiated the exchange rate to a charitable 31.78 rupees to the rouble under the 1978 India-Soviet agreement. In return, Russia gave India 45 years to repay the debt interest-free.
However, here's the rub. India did not have to actually pay anything to the Russians. This was because under the arrangement the repayment amount would be offset against goods purchased by Russia from India. Over time, trade between India and Russia went down due to various reasons and part of this debt was diverted into a Russian fund to invest in Indian companies as well as in Indo-Russian joint partnerships.
The details of this and all other Indo-Soviet/Indo-Russian transactions are murky and the Indo-Soviet/Indo-Russian relationship is a tangled web that only a few know. After the debt was recast in 1993, a bunch of Indian and Western commentators saw it as a colossal failure by India as such a practice was unheard of in the Western world, whereas another bunch of Indian and Russian commentators saw it as evidence of a close and deep relationship.
That doesn't mean that all has been hunky-dory since then. Just last year when the Russian economy was in trouble, they suddenly remembered this outstanding debt and wondered whether India could pay it all in one go.
ET why was my comment edited? @biwildered its in india's interest to see terrorist flushed out if you didn't know and open your eyes you would know iran, russia,china and india are on same page and have concerns and meeting over the issue when it comes to afganistan. That is Rule in the hand of civilian gvt not taliban. It's your estab who always raises issues that talib have genuine legitimate interest in ruling afgans. Yours was the first govt to recognise taliban govt in 90s not india, we never recognised it as govt but fundamentalist. for a record these are same people who hijacked indian civilian airplane caring 256 passengers,killed people,attacked indian embassy in afganistan five to six times, killed many indians and just yesterday kidnapped an indian from herat consulate who are supported by your country's mighty powerful you know who. When russia deals with you it has leverage to dictate terms who will rule afganistan , that is civilian democratic afganistan elected by people. Which is hugely in india's favour and that is why india supports russia on this behind close doors and is mum on front over it. The arms sale didn't even make it as heading or otherwise news headline in times of india paper. Shows how little we are worried.
@Raj - USA:
Russia is indeed a loyal friend but India is not! Vladimir is not Ivan, but the KGB commander who knows more about Indian plans than you do!
Rex Minor
@decoit Russian Hardware is Deadly
@jam: To be honest, I do not know full details of the loan. I think it was for purchase of Russian goods by India that had a payment clause in both Roubles and Dollars. India wanted to pay back in Roubles but Russia did not agree due to the sudden and climactic drop in the value of Ropubles India ultimately paid back in dollars. I remember reading headlines in the news but did not read it fully. I may be wrong also in this comment.
To be honest, I do not know full details of the loan. I think it was for purchase of Russian goods by India that had a payment clause in both Roubles and Dollars. India wanted to pay back in Roubles but Russia did not agree due to the sudden and climactic drop in the value of Ropubles India ultimately paid back in dollars. I remember reading headlines in the news but did not read it fully. I may be wrong also in this comment.
Yes, more bombs and arms that is all we need to fight ignorance, poverty, hunger, diseases, Polio and all social evils. How about taking care of basic needs of poor masses for a change?
Ah so open new avenues to commission
@Raj - USA: Can you provide more details about this loan you are talking about? If the loan was from USSR to India and denominated in Rubles then how does paying back at the old exchange rate help the USSR? If anything their currency is now weaker but they are getting paid at the old exchange rate when it was stronger meaning fewer Rubles.
India knew about this deal since last year. And has kept quiet with no public response. It has india's stamp and green signal. Russia Pakistan friendship will give more leverage to india. As it can deal through Russia indirectly want it wants from its neighbour. Both russia and india along with china and Iran have same interests in Afghanistan. They don't want Afghanistan to fall in hands of talib except Pakistan who want them to rule. A deal with russia gives Russians space to dictate terms who will rule afghans. It will ultimately benefit indians. Cool mind games going on in game of world chess.
Russia realized that it can not afford to live in Past Soviet Era viz a viz Pakistan anymore.
Pakistan had a problem with USSR but not with Russia. Pakistan is among the first community of nations who accepted the Russian Federation.
If one looks closely, one may be surprised to find that Pak & Russia has got much more sharing of views on different geopolitical issues than that of Pak & USA.
The Self imposed Russian Arms restriction to Pakistan now come to an end. After all USD 4 to 6 billion is not a meager amount to be missed on a pretext of self imposed restriction.
regards,
Pakistan is the most strategically placed country in the world, India needs gas supply from central asia through Pakistan, China needs gas & oil supply through Pakistan from Middle east, Iran is next door, then we have the potential to make Gawadar the most important port in the world since it is a deep sea port, unlike others in the region, which will connect west with the east & China & Russia will also benefit from it, more so for Russia as it needs access to warm waters. There are endless opportunities coming our way! The policies of a country keeps on changing so i expect more close relationship between Moscow and Islamabad in near future. Good for us.
Pakistan should not buy russian arms.India is moving away and looking for other advance arm system from other countries because russian arms are of old and obsolate.
Just a few days ago, the new Govt. in India has allowed 100% FDI in defense sector ... the Russian decision towards Pakistan is a logical step for Russia, there is no contradiction ...
Business drives all big changes ... this decision will open new business for Russia which should not be a big concern for India, as India is free to spend money in counter measures, which India will surely do ... !! ... Bottom line is, in any arms race only the party with the deep pocket wins ... !!
@Kamal: "Having said, the Russians are good friends to have." As far as India is concerned, Russians have been a very dependable friend. bangladesh would not have been possible without Russia and BrahMos co-production is a great example. They had been stedfast in vetoing all Pakistan favoring resolutions on Kashmir consistently. Russia generally, is also willing more than others to transfer technology. On its part, India has also stood fast with Russia. When the Soviet Union broke up and Rouble collapsed, India kept its promises on its Rouble loan from Russia and paid it back at the agreed exchange rate, rather than at the prevailing market rate. At that time, the West called it as the largest aid ever by a developing country (India) to Russia.
Interesting! However, this is not a long term policy decision. As someone commented it is to eran a bit of hard currency and to show their frustrations to the Indians. Having said, the Russians are good friends to have. We must have the courage and competence to have a meaningful and balanced relationship with both the US and Russian a strategic and key relationships with China and Saudi Arabia. The wild card is Iran, and we really have a challenge in the corridors of foreign policy making to chart the way forward without irritatiing Iran. My $ 0.02 or Rouble 0.07 of opinion.
initiation of new alliances
Russia and Pakistan should normally be the best of allies but ever since the start of time (starting with the Brits) the elite has pushed for friendship with a country 25000 kilometers away and not the neighbor next door.
Do we really need those helicopters? Do we have the money to buy? Can we spend the same money in other sector of the economy like education? These are the decisions to be made by the political party in power because they have more information. I am just commenting as a lay person.
Sara Khan I agree. I would much rather trust Russia than the USA.
I support this. The Russians produce high quality weapons.
@Raj - USA: Bit jelly today?
Good - rather than buy Russian knockoffs from China you can purchase directly from Russia.
Pakistan benefits from Russias rift with the USA and the European Union on NATO intended expansion in Ukraine. Both Afghanistan and Pakistan can benefit from Russian plans of Customs Uhion with central Asian countries.
Rex Minor
Desperate times require desperate measures. Western isolation on Ukraine, falling Russian economy has made them Focus more on countries that are ready to trade with them to kick start their economy. However this decision taken by them will be reversed. They won't risk losing trade,defence contracts with india for a mid sized country. Its like loosing jack fruits for lemons.
I am a staunch PTI supporter but if this report is true that Pakistan government & Army will be dealing with Russia instead of the US, I am all for it and i think the entire country should support this move.
US will take you to total destruction.
This doesn't really deteriorate Indo-Russian relationship. Talks of selling helicopters to Pakistan is not really a big deal. And anyway, Pakistan first needs to even have money to buy those helicopters!
This is nothing new. The JF 17 fighter jets have russian engines. Russia has allowed up to 100 such engines to be sold to China that makes the fighter jets for Pakistan.
CAUTION...............would be a wise suggestion.