The writer is a defence analyst who retired as an air vice-marshal in the Pakistan Air Force.
It is another matter the same Indian colleague is one of the signatories in a letter by eminent Indians to their prime minister, strongly opposing his proposed meeting with his Pakistani counterpart on the sidelines of the upcoming UN General Assembly session. The ways of the subcontinent though are unique, and strange twists can trump even the best of predictions and principled stands. So, for the moment, Manmohan Singh is not meeting Nawaz Sharif, but then, who knows.
Let’s do a cost-benefit review. What is it that India can hope to ‘maximally’ achieve in its interaction with Pakistan, were the two to remain engaged in a sustained process; Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) and the Northern Areas are reintegrated into Indian-held Kashmir, and accepted by both sides as inalienable parts of India. That shall pay put to the issue of the Line of Control (LoC) beyond Pt 9842, and matters as currently relate to the Siachen dispute and Indian presence along the Saltoro Ridge. Spin-offs with China of such a jackpot are multiple.
‘Minimally’, India will hope to retain the status quo; which really means that the LoC is accepted by both sides as the new border and matters on Kashmir rest as they stand. Except that the Kashmiris are unlikely to accept such bifurcation despite the convenience it will offer to the two belligerents to bring lasting peace through accommodation of mutual interests. This will call for some rather innovative structural formulation, which could satisfy the human and moral aspects of Kashmiri concerns while delivering to India and Pakistan, the much sought respite from a debilitating territorial dispute.
What is Pakistan’s ‘maximalist’ position: the entire region of Jammu and Kashmir, including stretches up to Ladakh as were included in the State of Kashmir in 1947, is ceded to Pakistan on the principles of Partition in 1947. This has been the basis of, at least, three and a half wars between the two countries. That subsumes the issue of Siachen and matters relating to boundaries in the north and east. ‘Minimally’, Pakistan will hope to find some comfort in a quid pro quo on Ladakh in India and in the Northern Areas of Pakistan; between Jammu in India and the southern districts of Mirpur and Kotli in Pakistan, while reuniting AJK with the Srinagar valley under the control of Pakistan. Such a solution shares the territorial gains, while minimising the pains of dividing the territories, and inalienably, some families.
It is realistic to discount both ‘maximalist’ positions as untenable. Both positions also denote a zero-sum undertaking — an unlikely course. Of the two ‘minimalist’ positions, how badly may Pakistan hope to achieve its ends, the current disparity in the power potential between the two nations and divergent trajectories in future growth tend to favour the Indian position better. Not engaging Pakistan, with the dice loaded in India’s favour, beats common sense.
With or without resolving the territorial disputes, if the two nations work towards opening up routes, trade and investment, and can find accommodation on Afghanistan, the region from Central Asia, West Asia to the limits of Kolkata can be integrated into a single economic bloc for energy, trading services for commodities and goods, infrastructure and travel. India remains the net gainer in this enterprise when its much larger industrial and manufacturing base, engineering goods, developed services sector and human resource can unleash her resident potential and realise unmet gains. Pakistan is in need of investment in areas where most Indian companies specialise, especially energy and medicine, and higher education, as indeed is the need for most of Central Asia and Afghanistan. Clearly, the key to this magic is held with Pakistan. Only fools will not wish to talk to Pakistan.
Terrorism, India’s bane, is best fought together. For that to happen, enough must be done in other areas to build confidence. Not talking does not build confidence. If indeed the construct of modern terrorism is charted, it becomes obvious that just as it might have been someone’s tool towards a fourth-generation war, it has now mutated into a self-sustaining mechanism, which finds its own course and pursues its own objectives. It also does not recognise borders and transverses conventional notions of nation states into international sympathy movements that transfer people and weapons with equal ease. What is only Pakistan’s existential threat today will be India’s tomorrow. Fighting this menace needs all hands at the regional level; holding back means inviting trouble. Not talking is holding back.
Can China and India coexist in any such future construct? I feel there is significant potential. The natural resources, the resident potential of the human resource and energy reserves in the region can be integrated through an elaborate infrastructure that physically binds the region into an economic and political relationship. To that end, both India and Pakistan, and their mutual antagonism, stand as the central hurdles. That can be removed by talking alone. Coexisting with China can make up for the Indian blunder of the initial years to stay uselessly disassociated with its own front yard.
Building all else without resolving territorial or political disputes is akin to building in air, without foundations or on suspect foundations. That is why talks across the entire spectrum are necessary. It is sensible and beneficial to talk. Not talking is a net loss; much more so to India.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 24th, 2013.
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COMMENTS (63)
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Yes, we are Muslims, so if you feel we are terrorists or fanatic Islamists, then why do you force us to live under Hindu domination? We Kashmiris are the exact same as our brothers in Pakistan, and share a common blood, culture, and language. Don't decide our fate for us, but let us speak for ourselves. Kashmir zindabad, Pakistan zindabad.
@Syed Jalal Kashmiri:
Not even in their nightmare they would want to do that. There are only two types of people who wants to live Pakistan, terrorists and their fanatic islamist leaders.
@Snoop Cat: Our ancestors were idol worshippers, but not Hindus. Hinduism is a relatively new creation following the Muslim arrival in the 7th century. We have evolved beyond the need to worship objects, animals, idols,etc. of wood and stone made by our own hands.
No one forced us to be Muslims, we chose so out of our own will, and so did the countless thousands of Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and others who convert to Islam yearly. It's a spiritual evolution. The spread of Islam throughout the world has been very natural and permanent, so give up your goal of converting us to your religion.
@Lala Gee
Those invaders are the reason why you are muslim despite having Hindu ancestors.
India has historically been more free than Egypt, Rome, Greece, Israel, Mesopotamia. All ancient civilizations which have faced greater periods of conquest and defeat than India.
India is marginally less free than Persia and China which were also overrun by invaders dozens of times.
Give peace a chance bro. Listen to the good author!
Khair !
ET please publish
@Anonymous: You cannot separate Kashmir from Pakistan. As Kashmiris, we share a great deal in culture, civilization, philosophy, language, and way of life with our Muslim brothers in Punjab and Pukhtoonkhwa, Pakistan. Indian culture is alien to Kashmiris. India cheated us out of our right to join Pakistan as a Muslim majority land. We will fight until we take back our rights with our own hands. Kashmir zindabad, Pakistan zindabad, Islam zindabad.
@Lala Gee
@Ram Ram: “How come the Kashmiris themselves are not the owner of the vast valleys of Kashmir, but the Hindus living in pigeonhole apartments in Mumbai, or in the dungeons of Thiruvananthapuram, or in the jungles of Imphal own their lands.” How do you think the Hindus themselves were not the owner of the vast land of Hindustan for close to 600 years, but the Muslims coming from Arabia, Persia, Central Asia etc. became the owner of their land? “Do yourself a favor, and to Kashmiri people as well, you keep what you own and let them own what is theirs.” You have claimed elsewhere on this page that Pakistanis are not claiming Kashmir for themselves. Thank you for this change of heart (belated though). So it’s now a matter between the Kashmiris and Indians. Who are you to poke your nose in this and advice Indians about what they should or shouldn’t do? US, UK, China, Brasil do not claim Kashmir, hence do not poke their nose. If you are doing it on humanitarian ground (like you provide lip service for Palestinians), then how about advising the Chinese to give the Tibetians what belong to them? “……….the only language they (Indians) understand is of force.” If you are sure of your conviction, then go ahead, what’s stopping you?
Kashmiri people want to join Pakistan, Pakistan is incomplete without Kashmir, and Kashmir is only a headache for India. Allow Muslim rule in Kashmir under Pakistan, and all problems will disappear overnight between Pakistan and India. This is the only logical decision. Pakistan has potential with or without India. It is India that is isolated from the Muslim world and China because of its antagonism to Pakistan.
"Terrorism, India's bane, is best fought together."
How does the author exactly proposes doing that? Pakistan's Army which although takes away the biggest share in the whole budget, has not been able to effectively deal with internal terrorism all these years, despite receiving large number of monetary as well as military grants from US, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. The type of terrorism which is hurting both countries today, emanates only from Pakistan. If the only way to tackle terrorism, as per author is for both countries to fight it together, then will Pakistan let Indian Army do operations inside Pakistan against such terrorism camps, just like what the US is doing today? Terrorism flourished in Pakistan due to three reasons: 1) Zia's Islamisation of Pakistan 2) The in-bred fear of projecting India as a "possible aggressor" for so many years ever since Independence. 3) Diverting the militants on India borders which had nothing else to do after fighting in Afghanistan against Soviet rule. All these factors led to Pakistani state to have a "soft corner" for these elements and it never occurred to them these same elements will one day grow powerful enough to start attacking their own masters. Both countries want peace,but even today there is a significant support to these elements among the Pakistani establishment. Peace won't ever take place if Pakistan does nothing about this ever-growing threat of terrorism or the "parallel military forces of Pakistan" as General Hamid Gul said in an interview.
Terrorism, India’s bane, is best fought together. For that to happen, enough must be done in other areas to build confidence. Not talking does not build confidence: Not prosecuting known terrorists also does not build confidence.
The author tries to make a point about Pakistan's geographical advantage as having the key to link south-east Asia to Central Asia. No arguments there. But the Deep State has the same key for exporting Jihad which it is using.
@Naveen:
Looks like you subscribe to the British idea that India never was unified or had the same culture before the British occupation rubbish even though, there is evidence to the contrary from Kailash in the Himalyas to Kanyakumari. Read Ramayana.
Second answer to your question, yes there. Let me start you off on an education of your own country. Of Course I am assuming here, could be wrong.
Start from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlineofancient_India. There is more than enough to keep you reading for at least a year or two.
Third, it is clear that, you do not follow or interested ancient history or archeology but completely content with your limited understanding. Couple of months ago, a Shivalingam was excavated in central Asia and archeologists are still continuing their investigation.
See, there is a lot more going on in this world and your limited understanding is just that, limited.
If I have one criticism about the current Indian education, it creates people who can memorize by rot learning but stifles curiosity and imagination.
Start reading and then come back. Read Arthasashtra while at it. There are great books on Indian history. It is shame that we have only some of it, more have been lost. If you ever get curious and gave the urge to learn more, take trip to Munich, Germany and visit the Munich Library where, some of the greatest ancient Indian writing in Sanskrit is preserved.
@Naveen:
"I would like to encourage Pakistan to carry out a UN monitored Plebiscite on its end of J&K (and perhaps later in Baluchistan & KP) with choices of joining India, Afghanistan, Pakistan or full fledged independence given to the people."
Thank you for your encouragement. However, this demand must come from the people living in those areas you mentioned, not from Indians. If India feels that Pakistan is oppressing the peoples of Azad A&J, or Baluchistan, or KPK, you're welcome to take their case to UNSC as you did in case of Kashmir.
"May be It would help pressurise India to do the same on its end."
Again confirming my point of view that principles, fairness, and honor have no value or place in Indians consciences and the only language they understand is of force.
@Rum Ram: (LOL)
"On a more serious note, Kashmiris are owners of the pigeonhole apartments in Mumbai, the dungeons of Thiruvananthapuram, and the jungles of Imphal."
But your won't let them own their own lands. Do you? I'm sure you won't let even your neighbor to take away your television set, let alone you'd allow the Kashmiris to own Mumbai or Bangaluru. Do yourself a favor, and to Kashmiri people as well, you keep what you own and let them own what is theirs.
@Menon: What exactly is your definition of India in Ancient and Medievel Era? Are there any concrete boundaries to it? As per my knowledge, There were no nation-states back then, so My request - kindly leave such oft repeated polemics out from discussion on realpolitics. They sound very annoying.
Besides it is obvious you have no knowledge about exploits of Cholas. You also seem to blissfully unaware of the massive hurdle posed by Himalayas to the North and East of Indian subcontinent and barren lands to the West that offered no incentive to Indian rulers to march elsewhere.
Lastly even if one were to assume everything you said is correct - with the benefit of hindsight, was that a good strategy? Was the lack of an outwardly projecting navy and the lack of outwardly projecting infantry right into 18th century not the single biggesst factor responsible for colonisation of entire Subcontinent. Ditto for 1962. As they say, Stupidity is repeating the same thing over and over but expecting different results.
@Strategic Asset:
Historically, India has not in the habit of flexing her muscles. Indian influence of South East Asia, Afghanistan and beyond is trade, culture, science, philosophy and co-existence. India has never conquered any country in her 10,000 years of history and Indians are not going to start now.
An import an piece of Indian history more people should take to explore and understand.
@Lalla Ghee "How come the Kashmiris themselves are not the owner of the vast valleys of Kashmir, but the Hindus living in pigeonhole apartments in Mumbai, or in the dungeons of Thiruvananthapuram, or in the jungles of Imphal own their lands."
Where did you hear about dungeons in Thiruvananthapuram? Please share more of your wisdom acquired through "Pakistan Studies". Reducing the length of your rants, emitting these shorter pearls are more entertaining:-)
On a more serious note, Kashmiris are owners of the pigeonhole apartments in Mumbai, the dungeons of Thiruvananthapuram, and the jungles of Imphal. The same way the pigeonhole dwellers, dungeonwallahs, jungle dwellers own the "vast" valleys and mountains of Kashmir.
This is just fyi, see if you can grasp it. I will give you a quiz shortly.
@Lala Gee: Indeed how noble of Lahore. And since we are talking about the spirit of freedom and indigenous ownership, I would like to encourage Pakistan to carry out a UN monitored Plebiscite on its end of J&K (and perhaps later in Baluchistan & KP) with choices of joining India, Afghanistan, Pakistan or full fledged independence given to the people. May be It would help pressurise India to do the same on its end.
@Lala Gee: "" (which they don’t hide even on moderated Pakistani websites; the non-moderated Indian websites actually show their real hateful belligerent and venomous natures), """ very well said bro, fully agreed, God bless you
@Ram Ram:
"We should open our eyes and cede you more land and obey your orders. Lol."
How come the Kashmiris themselves are not the owner of the vast valleys of Kashmir, but the Hindus living in pigeonhole apartments in Mumbai, or in the dungeons of Thiruvananthapuram, or in the jungles of Imphal own their lands. Unlike you, Pakistan is not asking to transfer the ownership of Kashmir to the people living in Lahore or Karachi, but only asking to return to the Kashmiris the ownership of their lives and lands, and let them decide what they want for themselves. This is the difference Kashmiris consider India as the occupational force holding them at gun point.
Talking in itself is not the objective. It is intended to settle disputes on the table and requires a frame step by step . India accorded MFN status to Pakistan decades ago. Pakistan has to reciprocate (is obliged to do so ) though Pakistan admits and understands that trade normalization is the first step towards better environment for next step. Moreover trade with India will be beneficial to them also. But still the government finds itself ubanle to acord the MFN status to India. The reason is well known . Govt. is unable to convince its audience for it as there are protest s in the government itself or the powerful Army uses the common men's shoulder to sabotage it. If the government itself is weak to take a decision ( which she though is willing to take) the talks will remain talks and no positive result can take place. Pak government does not have the will and courage to take tough decisions and prefers to have a shield of consensus by all ( which can never happen). So it has proved futile . Talk and terrorism can't go together. so disengagement is better option which is being experimented.
@Lala Gee: Impassioned write-up. Impressive too even if I disagree. You seem to find the inimical India quite ignoble. What else should you (or Author) expect? The pet phrase, an oxymoron actually, of 18th/19th century romantic Europeans, was "Noble Savage", while referring to tribes of Africa, Asia & Americas. In the same vein romantics still seem to seek a pet "Noble Enemy" for themselves. After reading your post I am convinced that India falls woefully short of being such a 'noble enemy'. In this world it is difficult to get a friend, let alone a spouse, that is compatible & you want to be choosy about the qualities of the 'enemy'! Besides, it is your internal enemy that will kill you even if he appears to be principled, pure & all things pious. Manage, for the time being as a unifying factor, with the external foe that you do have my friend, for, he is familiar & far better than the familial.
@Anas Abbas:
Mr. Abbas,
My exact thoughts as I was reading the article. Two pre-conditions exist for building trust. First and foremost terrorism must be uprooted and buried forever. Second, Pakistan must establish a strong civilian government that has control and administrative control over its armed forces, ISI, etc.
Today, the civilian government want to establish base and focus on the economy but the military has a different agenda. Kargil adventure by the Commando was thwart then PM Shariff’s overtures of peace with India.
It seems we are at the same place today.
@Lala Gee: It's been already 65 years since India and Pakistan try for peace sometimes . I don't know of Pakistanis but we Indians are fed up of some of the rhetoric that Pakistanis usually resort to . 1. Acting like superpower We are far from being super power, we are just on the path to development . It maybe Pakistan's own complex that make them feels like that India is acting like superpower . 2. inbred hatred for Pakistan and the Muslims No such inbred hatred , 99% of Indians are concerned with making their life better. Yes, we are little cautious just because of past history of Pakistan's double speak in garb of peace talks. 3.the only talk India understands is, “come and get it, if you can”, proved by so many warriors and colonizers in the past. Well, if you think so then try it any day and bring on all your nukes, cause we are really tired of listening this over and over . 4. You talk of Indian sycophancy towards U.S.A but past and present shows it's you who are doing it. I saw former foreign minister of Pakistan begging for money in U.N . It's understandable that every country needs money for development but strangely it's Pakistan who begs U.S.A for money and then curse it . 5. keep your "most strategic location " selling point to yourself India does not need it . If we need central Asia we will make way somehow . 6. Lastly,not only U.S.A but with China we will make our relations better . we don't care if you call it sycophancy, meanwhile try to control mess in Pakistan . I hope tribune will publish it, just some ideas exchange with angry and sulking brothers from other side of border .
I think we need to get our own house in order first before talking to the Indians
@Author:
You have totally failed to take into account the Indian's psychology of the weak, mentality of the mean, and arrogant attitude of the snob, showing a behavior very similar to the behavior exhibited by a newly got rich person (the ridiculous thing in their case is that they are not even close to being rich or something like a super power yet, but just in the hope of getting there some day, they have started acting like the one, perhaps under too much influence of Bollywood movies). And, all this coupled with their inbred hatred for Pakistan and the Muslims (which they don't hide even on moderated Pakistani websites; the non-moderated Indian websites actually show their real hateful belligerent and venomous natures), any talk of sense based on principles and fairness which goes against their false claims would achieve nothing, and only be a terrible waste of time and resources on our part. If the past experience of decades of talks with India is any predictor, India would linger upon in talks, and then suddenly suspend the talks for several years on one excuse or the other -- or even create one, if she has to -- and then start again from point zero in the hopes that lingering upon long enough would make the dispute disappear with time, or at-least would make the situation favorable for India.
Unlucky for us, the only principle India truly believes in is, "might is right", and any other principles like principles of fairness and justice, or people's basic democratic rights, or even human rights have no place and relevance while dealing with the smaller and weaker neighboring countries, or even their own minorities. Accordingly, if the other is mightier than them, they would cross all the bounds of sycophancy to achieve their objectives -- this behavior can be clearly seen these days for USA which used to be the opposite camp during the Cold War era -- and all the principles of humanity, fairness, and justice would instantly become relevant. Similarly, the only talk India understands is, "come and get it, if you can", proved by so many warriors and colonizers in the past. For any sane person, this reality should have been very obvious, especially to the author due to his certain career background. But, alas, the lust for luxurious lifestyles and the easy money coming from the vast network of posh Defense Housing Societies and the great Askari Business Empire have rendered our defenders almost impotent and morally bankrupt so much that they are even ready to deliberately ignore the so obvious realities -- lest they have to do some real hard work for which the nation has already sacrificed so much -- which even a blind person can easily see. I only hope that the comments posted here by Indians open your, and of the other optimists, eyes and wake you up from the deep air-conditioned sleep, and help dispel any illusions you still might have about them. It is time to get ready for the actual hard work and to face the challenge like the brave. Closing your eyes like pigeon or burying your head in sand like Ostrich is not going to help solve the disputes.
@antanu: "@Anas Abbas: are you really ANAS ABBAS….no way.Here rests the evil…most of us are even to display their true identities and with such moral bankruptcy there could never be PEACE."
Oh what an irony - @antanu, a Pakistani patriotic citizen who always pretends to be an Indian, complains about someone else misrepresenting themselves.
The author is very wrong in trying to portray terrorism in INdia and trying to put Pak and India on even keel. The terrorism in India is a reaction to the activities of Pak in poking into India and nothing more. Even then there are no Kasabs and Hafiz Sayeeds in India spewing hate and venom.
The bare "minimum" of Pakistan as enunciated by the Author is quite ambitious considering all the wars started by it's Army could not bring Pak anywhere close to it. The good AVM would know better than anybody else the cliche' that you cannot win at the negotiating table what you have not won at the battlefield.
''...Talks are the only way forward for Pakistan and India...'''.
Talks may be the only way forward for Pakistan and India. But a powerful Pakistan organization thinks the opposite. 'Heavy mandated' Nawaz Sharif civilian government seems completely helpless before them.
Until Pakistan civilian government has full control over all its organizations, there will be no peace between Pakistan and India.
Mr Chaudhry has presented a sober assessment of India-Pak dispute. Both countries have stuck to their maximalist position knowing fully well that this is an impossible task but the nationalist attitude defeats an intelligent approach. The way forward would be to accept the status quo with some minor adjustments either way as 'face saving' escape from this quick sand. The author is right about terrorism having no borders, and both countries (Pakistan more than India) should make genuine efforts to counter and defeat it. The way forward is to realise, accept and act to create a secure environment for the people of the region as a whole.
very weird that E.T is ONLY and MOSTLY publishing comments from Indian readers.. Astonishing and weird indeed. Even decent replies to these accusations as so blatantly stated by strategic asset, are not being entertained by E.T,.
This part about Pakistan being a road to Central Asia is a bit of a stretch . For India to trade with Central Asia through Pakistan there has to be peace and law and order in Pakistan and Afghanistan which seems to be a long way off . The trucks will keep getting looted like the NATO trucks are these days .
All those interested in this topic, and the author too, would do well to read the following appearing in The Economics Times, Mumbai of today, August 24, 2013, available online.
PERVEZ HOODBHOY Prof of physics & mathematics. He teaches in Lahore and Islamabad Lashkar Fuelling Hostilities Between India and Pakistan
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Client.asp?Daily=ETM&showST=true&Enter=true&Skin=ETNEW
Your assumptions are all wrong!
India has no maximalist position. It might claim POK, but it is really not interested. Just like China will not stop claiming Arunachal Pradesh, but has absolutely no interest in it, India too claims for something, but only as a leverage during talks - "You give up your claim, we'll give up ours".
The "minimalist" position is the actual position and desire. You claim Kashmiris will not be satisfied, but how do you know? Have you conducted a poll in J&K, which included Buddhist majority Ladakh and Hindu majority Jammu?
So, when the basic assumptions are wrong, the analysis cannot be right.
You have a point with trade though. Not surprisingly India is open to trade and business with Pakistan. Since, MFN was given in 1996 India preference for trade is well-documented. You are bent on making Pakistan something it can never be, a bridge between Central Asia and India. This is a chimera, designed to lure, but not many are fooled. Pakistan and the Muslim world is fighting demons of their designs. The demons are gaining strength.
Indians are not idiots. There is only limited advantage in talking to Pakistan, but the opposite(Pakistan gains limitless advantages in talking to India) is not true at all. India will dangle the carrot, but will use the stick like we are seeing this past week.
The fact is in any negotiation there is a weaker side and stronger side. India has most of the cards - A very good economy, enormous international influence, a overwhelming conventional superiority in defence, and most importantly, is status quo. So, what you call "minimalist", India already has as a de-facto. So, India is starting the talks with the "minimalist" demand already in its kitty. But, Pakistan is not even close to achieving its "minimalist" demand.
Delusions of grandeur!
Sir: Pakistan must accept that you are an Independent Country ,you wanted freedom, you did not want to live with Indians. But, you are obsessed with India everyday in your life for the last 66 years. Forget us , get on with your life. We don't think about you at all yes we do only when you send your trained terrorists to kill our innocent citizens.. You are so concerned about Kashmiris, have you looked the economic and educational standards of Indian Kashmiris and occupied Kashmiris in your side of the border. This exactly like east and west Germany. If India opens the gates for Kashmiris in occupied area for 24 hours. Can you fathom ?
Talking means sense but even after decades of talk if it does not lead to positive path ,disengagement with a firm stand of protecting ourselves and own interest is another option. Disengagement is a message.
Sir, We Indians cannot wait to teach Pak a lesson after what all you've done to us. Pakistan is playing with fire by constantly messing with India and creating serious problems for itself. Don't do it and behave like a good neighbor. We will not cede an inch of Kashmir to anyone. Thanks
Stop terrorism and we're ready for talks. Talks and terror don't go together. Period
"With or without resolving the territorial disputes, if the two nations work towards opening up routes, trade and investment," ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Does anyone remember Pakistani flip flops on the MFN?
The 'maximally' position of India is Akhand Bharat. Today, tomorrow and forever.
Author is a learned person but The bigger question is - Will the terrorists of today become rulers of Pakistan tomorrow. Perhaps India ought to hedge its bets.
Besides, even The Minimalist approach for Pakistan (unlike that of India) quite clearly involves taking away large tracts of Indian controlled territory which just can't be allowed, no matter which Govt is in power.
"It is another matter the same Indian colleague is one of the signatories in a letter by eminent Indians to their prime minister, strongly opposing his proposed meeting with his Pakistani counterpart on the sidelines of the upcoming UN General Assembly session."
Interesting.
Dear Author,
You are not free of such bigotry yourself. On one hand you talk of peace with India when you write.
When you appear on TV you are with the same group of people who are spreading lies and propaganda against India.
The youtube videos are available when you mostly sit with a right-to-center anchor. When the news of Mani accusing another Indian officer of accusing the Indian government for orchestrating two major attacks, surfaced on Indian media, you sat on Pakistani TV without bothering for a moment to analyze the facts and said that it is the case like Samjhauta express.
First of all, Samjhauta express was done by a rogue element which was exposed by our own law enforcement agencies. Second, how did you not analyze the news properly and jumped the bandwagon that India is attacking its own people?
I see a balanced approach and a welcome change of heart from Mr Shahzad Chaudhuri.
Once we get back Kashmir, we should try to get back East Pakistan.
Here is a parallel view. India has been talking with PAK for the past 60 years. Nothing happened and events ended up in three and half war plus Mumbai and parliament attack.
Not talking means status quo. As he says, yes PAK holds the key to central Asian market but India holds the deed to the market. So, who is obstructing the market in a venomous spate?
As the author says, maximalist position on both sides are impossible and creative solution is needed and if my understanding is correct such creative solutions are already in place and the hurdles to that are in PAK side and the last straw was mumbai.
Trans border business will only expand as PAK has no choice on this matter if she wants to expand her economy for the growing population. As far as India and china is concerned there monetary agreement speaks volume where their relationship stands. Does PAK and India have native currency trade agreement in place?
The parallel view is that PAK seeking talks with India is only for PAK benefit as the perpetual talks without substance keep PAK in limelight.
That said, even worst enemies have to talk at the end to decide how to kill each other. On that context, talks are must and who says it is not ongoing already.
All matters will proceed in rocket speed if PAK hands over the Mumbai guys, which obviously PAK cannot do even if she sincerely wishes to do so. That is the reality. So, opportune time and patience are needed.
Thanks God! a man of military mind set now speaking of dialogue with India.
@Anas Abbas: are you really ANAS ABBAS....no way.Here rests the evil...most of us are even to display their true identities and with such moral bankruptcy there could never be PEACE.
@author How come you did not factor in the large piece of Kashmir land ceded to your all weather friend - China?
Walk the talk Mr Author.... http://tribune.com.pk/story/593834/tension-with-new-delhi-pakistan-refuses-to-take-part-in-talks-on-tapi-pipeline/ what say now ??? that's called shooting in ones own foot
Very cool headed and practical analysis of problem. Best analysis of Indo-Pak problems always comes from former Pak air force officers. May be they have bird's eye view of the entire region unlike Pak army. Where there is will, there is a way. From time to time leaders from both sides have spoken even about some sort of federation. Mr. Man Mohan Singh spoke of irrelevant borders. Accept it or not, only two nation separates India and Pakistan and nothing else. No solution will last till Pakistan believes in Two Nation Theory. Even if entire J&K is merged with Pakistan, nothing will change except the position of LoC. Real disease is Two nation Theory and everything else are symptoms. Region will have to debate from beginning once again.
But you want to be Arabs? You say you have even descended from the great Arabs? You guys say there Pakistan is the anti-thesis of India. So why want to associate with Bania Hindu?
So the first step lies in cleansing your own minds.
In Shahzad Chaudhry's own words in ET,
"HOR CHOOPO" Terrorism mixed with religion.
India is better off staying away from the "friendship" of Pakistan; however opposite is not true.
Now coming to Kashmir, for the purpose of this article, I will give you the benefit of doubt for swapping Mirpur & Kotli with Srinagar with the assumption that they are equal in size, population and intrinsic value. However do you seriously expect that India will accept this at face value and that the population of India will ever agree to such an exercise? . I am not even bringing up the entire matter jurisprudence such as Maharaja Hari Singh's Instrument of Accession, India's investment in Srinagar be it in terms of railway transportation, highways, etc. into this argument. . I suggest that rather than having grandiose plans, Pakistan first cease its terrorist factories, ratify the LOC & AGPL in Siachen as the border and set up a mechanism for a swap agreement. I can provide the example of Bangladesh where such a mechanism exists. Notwithstanding what we feel about Bangladeshi illegal immigrants in India, we share a common fellowship with Bangladeshis. Thorny issues such as Indian and Bangladeshi enclaves are being settled now albeit at a snail's pace. If Mamta Banerjee unfortunately did not put her foot down, the current vacillating Congress government would have solved may thorny issues including the Teesta River which is paramount to Bangladeshis. . I will also suggest a CBM that will have an immediate impact. Stop trivializing the Mumbai 26/11 attacks and bring its perpetrators to justice in Pakistan or if need be in India. Please remember that over 40 of the victims were Muslims, many of whom were dirt poor and migrant labourers. Justice for them will certainly start the ball rolling.
Too much idealism (even presumably well meant) ... but much too little on real substance. The author is correct is saying that "Clearly, the key to this magic is held with Pakistan." -- making Pakistan the least common "denominator" in this grand equation that stems from Central Asia to Kolkata and possibly even beyond this to Burma and goodness knows where else... but what about the Jihadis, and the infrastructure that exists in Pakistan for this, and sustains it? Where is the talk of all this? It is conspicuous by its absence in the above lecture! The fact is that there is a sizeable (in tens of millions) constituency that will do whatever to derail anything worthwhile that the author speaks of ... Why? Only because their objective is hate, hate and more hate... if only to show that "we (i.e. Pakistan) are NOT INDIA" ...yes, it will require no less than "magic" to solve this.. Full Stop.
Talk at the cost of Indian Blood acceptable to us. As for the net gain what is the gain of Indian giving MFN status to Pakistan and india removing its objections to EU trade Regime. Pakistan can wait till the next govt comes in India, then may we can pick up the threads from where they were left. Till then all this optics is not going to get us anywhere.....Also terrorism is a problem faced by both countries but one actual sponsors terror.
Long-term reconciliation would be foolish until the elected government of Pakistan can demonstrate that it can rein in its "assets" and take complete control of the country. Until they do so, talks are pointless and India should maintain a proactive tit-for-tat posture as it has started to do in recent days.
The Indian people (and now much of the world) have long seen through Pakistan's duplicitous strategy of talking peace while tacitly tolerating misadventures. With the elections looming and with the fast rise of an unabashed India-first Modi, even the normally docile Congress has been compelled to act.
Expecting a country to talk and act with one voice is a reasonable stance. Get Pakistan to that point and then you can propose next steps.
@Author: China and India are already coexisting together. If not, Wen Jiabao would not make his first ever foreign visit specifically to India. . India is the counterpoint to China in Asia and the Chinese Premier fully understands it. Hillary Clinton calls this the new Asian century. Shinzo Abe of Japan drafted his proposal of the "Asian Security Diamond" involving Japan, India, Australia and the US when he was not yet PM of Japan. Countries such as Vietnam in South East Asia are closely aligned to India and are looking for a resolution mechanism for their South China Sea dispute. Even a country like South Korea feels kinship with India, a country whose poet Rabindranath Tagore first sowed the seeds of Korean independence. . Yet, India is the sleeping giant of Asia. India has not yet shown any signs of flexing her muscles and displaying her raw might. However, there is no telling when she will wake up. . Who is Pakistan in all this? Nothing but an irritant. I hear that North Korea is looking for a new sugar-daddy. If as a pure conjecture India agrees to this role, I am sure it will hurt China but India will gain nothing and lose her credibility. So using this analogy, please tell me once again why would China prop up Pakistan?
the author wrote "Terrorism, India’s bane, is best fought together."
Seriously? Taqiyya!
Talks are neither good nor bad. Most importantly talks are/ have been useless in tackling pakistan sponsored terrorism. Even Indians who say talks should continue will admit to this fact.
1) Try as hard as u can but Peace will never be possible with india unless there is a total shutdown of jihad & prosecution of hafiz Saeed. 2) if India is hoping tht pak will take action against Saeed then it should come out of this delusion. 3) when pak cannot take action against TTP tht killed over 50k pakis then why would it take action against LeT?
Liberals will call this a highly extreme position but this is the most important fact. It's easier to sit on twitter, join liberal neutral groups and highlight Narendra Modis Gujarat horrific episode to cover your Jihadi Godzilla then Goodluck. Any peace initiative from either ind or pak will be decimated because non state actors rule Pakistan.