A failure of principle

Published: October 22, 2012
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The writer is a partner at Bhandari, Naqvi & Riaz and an advocate of the Supreme Court. He can be reached on Twitter @laalshah. The views presented in the article above are not those of his firm

The writer is a partner at Bhandari, Naqvi & Riaz and an advocate of the Supreme Court. He can be reached on Twitter @laalshah. The views presented in the article above are not those of his firm

Other than inquiries about my ancestors and their relations with barnyard animals, the question posed most often to me in the wake of last week’s column is this: “Why are you so angry? Imran Khan was just being honest. Besides, he is the only one with a plan to attack militancy in Pakistan. What has the government done?”

To begin with, let’s remember that Imran Khan wants to be our leader. As such, his statements have to be examined on the basis of the principles they represent, not just for logical consistency.

What then does Mr Khan’s refusal to criticise the Taliban represent?

According to my friend Isfandyar Kasuri, it represents a laudable concern for the safety and welfare of Mr Khan’s workers. Isfandyar, in fact, compared it with the way one should react if women and children are being held hostage.

I find that argument unpersuasive.

Mr Khan’s principles need to make sense for the entire country, not just for his followers. Obviously, leaders must worry about the lives of those directly exposed to the threat of terrorism. But the issue here is the consequences of submitting to terrorism: it’s not about losing a battle but about losing the entire war. If Imran Khan’s statement is taken at face value, he could never order any action against the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), even as the prime minister of Pakistan, because of potential reprisals.

There is another aspect to Mr Khan’s scruples. Mr Khan was asked what he would do if the US refused to stop drone strikes within Pakistan. He said he would order the PAF to shoot down the drones. The questioner told him that this could lead to war. Mr Khan’s response was rhetorical but unequivocal. He asked the host whether it was better to live the life of a jackal or the death of a lion. He then added that sometimes there was no option but to say Allah o Akbar and leave the rest to God.

Let’s review this. Mr Khan is not inclined to criticise the Taliban because he has supporters who live in Taliban-controlled territory. On the other hand, Mr Khan has no problems leading this country into a potential war with a nuclear superpower, apparently because this is the manly thing to do and further because God will take care of us. Go figure.

Let me deal with other points now. I may decide to vote for the PTI as the least bad option. But that doesn’t mean Mr Khan can seek my vote simply on the basis that he is less corrupt and less demonstrably incompetent than the others. To be fair, I don’t think he is campaigning on that basis either. Instead, he is arguing that he represents a force for good and a genuine hope of progress and peace. And he deserves to be judged on that basis.

As I’ve said before, I’m intrigued enough by the PTI to seriously consider voting for it. I am also happy that the PTI has put together a reasonable economic policy while other parties have done zilch. At the same time, the PTI’s economic policies are secondary. The only real issue — right now, right here — is how Pakistan is going to deal with the scourge of fundamentalist militancy and the TTP.

Yes, Mr Khan does condemn terrorist acts like the attack on Malala Yousufzai. But his condemnations tend to be brief and he prefers to focus on the drones and the war in Afghanistan. And it is this aspect of Mr Khan’s thinking which both alarms and outrages me.

This is war, Mr Khan. In a war, what one wants is a leader who recognises the gravity of the threat. What one wants is moral clarity. What one wants is Winston Churchill, not Neville Chamberlain. The TTP are not just criminals nor are they merely an incidental side-effect of the war in Afghanistan. Instead, the TTP are openly waging war against the state of Pakistan. They are killing our soldiers, they are killing our people and they are boasting about it. To say that the TTP does so only because Pakistan is allied with the US is misguided. And to argue that once this alliance disappears, terrorism will also disappear, is further misguided.

First, the TTP seeks not only Pakistan’s disengagement from Afghanistan but the destruction of our current constitutional order. If the Americans leave Afghanistan, the TTP will still continue to demand that their particular version of Sharia be imposed in Pakistan. The TTP has killed at least 10,000 Pakistanis over the last five years and recently shot and wounded a 15-year-old girl for demanding education. Why, then, does Mr Khan refuse to take them seriously? And why does he forget their reign of terror when they took over power in Swat?

Second, Mr Khan’s assessment is wrong that the residents of Fata and the traditional tribals will control militancy once the justification for jihad disappears. Mr Khan likes to support this contention by referring to how the Fata leaders, back in 2004, used to hand over al Qaeda militants. Unfortunately, that tribal culture is now dead. This is because the TTP have killed hundreds of tribal chiefs, or Maliks, and brutalised many others into submission. Yes, if the US leaves Afghanistan, the Taliban will stop their jihad against the US. But the TTP will continue its jihad against Pakistan because it sees this state as deeply illegitimate. And the residents of many parts of Fata will not be able to stop them.

Third, the US has stated it will be keeping forces in Afghanistan even after 2014. If Pakistan’s avowed foreign policy becomes one of open “moral, political and diplomatic support” for the “jihad” in Afghanistan, we will effectively be declaring war on the US. Has anyone in Mr Khan’s stable of former foreign ministers seriously considered the ramifications of that step?

For the record, my difficulties with Mr Khan’s policies should not be taken as an endorsement of any other party. I have written repeatedly and unambiguously about the failures of the PPP and the PML-N. My problem, in the end, is that I had expected more of Mr Khan than what is offered by the PPP and the PML-N. Apparently I was wrong.

Published in The Express Tribune, October 23rd, 2012.

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Reader Comments (124)

  • tahir
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:04PM

    when will u grow up manRecommend

  • Mohammad Assad
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:06PM

    Farrukh Saleem also raised similar points and it was answered once by Dr Alvi and once by Shafqat Mehmood. I would request you and others reading this too go check those two shows.
    .
    IK and PTI have never claimed that disengaging with the war in Afghanistan will end all terrorism. What they do say is that the propaganda tool used by the militants to get new recruits will end. That is why he continually says Pakistan should take ownership of ‘this’ war
    .
    Eg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7CkOJPnclQ (@ 2:20 by disengaging with American in Afghanistan he says Pakistan should take ownership of the war, in an interview from more than a year ago)
    .
    .
    If he wants to take ownership of a war..how can it mean he thinks everything will be ok once the US leave or we stop supporting the US. The war will still continue..but we will take ownership of it.Recommend

  • faraz
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:13PM

    Defence secretary stated today that drones attacks were being carried out with approval of the government, while Imran says that terrorism is an outcome of drones. Recommend

  • PNP
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:18PM

    Good article . If Obama is defeated in this US election I can say for sure that the Romney administration would be much more aggressive to destroy talibans even if they have to enter so called sovereign area of north waziristan . We need to have a mentally mature leadership in Pakistan to cope with future otherwise results will be bad !

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  • Oct 22, 2012 - 10:33PM

    the point is how did the author assumed that Imran Khan is not against militancy or talibans for that matter? if you ask yourself wrong questions, you will get wrong answers… problem with people like Feisal naqvi, who is respected commercial lawyer, not an attorney in case against Qadari the assassin of Governor Salman Taseer.Recommend

  • PakArmySoldier
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:36PM

    Imran Khan has dangerous ideas. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ushers in a WW3.

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  • afzaalkhan
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:40PM

    Why don’t you ask same leadership question from current coalition government or the official opposition. I get it you don’t agree with IK fair enough, so don’t vote for him, vote for the current lot since they have done so awesome. Either way this doesn’t give you right to call names.

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  • Something Clever
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:51PM

    @Mohammad Assad:
    “IK and PTI have never claimed that disengaging with the war in Afghanistan will end all terrorism.”
    Yes, they have.
    “What they do say is that the propaganda tool used by the militants to get new recruits will end.”
    You’re the first to ever reference that. Out of so many people, how are your ears the only ones that heard it? It’s just that typical PTI supporter thing you guys do. Putting words in Imran Khan’s mouth so he doesn’t sound like he’s brain dead and you can still cling to him like he’s some kind of savior. News flash, he’s not. He’s a worn out former cricket player who can’t speak coherently and intelligently unless it’s rehearsed and written for him. Even then it’s vague. When people ask him to elaborate on the spot, guess what comes? Another round of “laugh at Imran while his supporters have heart attacks” because every time he talks on the spot he says something that makes himself out to be a joke. Every single time.
    “he says Pakistan should take ownership of the war, in an interview from more than a year ago)”
    So you’ve proven he contradicts himself. You did the work for everyone. Who cares what he said last year, anyways, when he obviously has no spine in the present? It’s a distraction. He wants to hide in a safe hole while his masochistic supporters make noise to drown out the truth of what he really amounts to in the present time.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 22, 2012 - 10:58PM

    “My problem, in the end, is that I had expected more of Mr Khan than what is offered by the PPP and the PML-N. Apparently I was wrong.”

    Your problem is actually a world view that refuses to listen to logic being told repeatedly, in both normal speed and in slow motion. Let me reiterate what is being said here again for your final, utmost attention: the US war works is used as the devil’s glue that binds all the various bad apples–TTP, Punjabi Taliban, Arab Jihadis, Central Asian Jihadis, North African Jihadis, ex Kashmir Jihadis, ex and current Afghan Jihadis, Drone victims, Pashtun nationalists, global anti capitalistic romanticists, criminals, smugglers, and more! the US war essentially provides both a potent moral cover and an effective recruitment tool to bring people over to the “dark side.” What Imran is saying is that we should announce our withdrawal from the US war in clear, public terms. It does not mean that US will stop its war in Afghanistan–let them waste their blood and treasure if they so wish to do. All we need is a clear, public statement backed by a parliamentary resolution and relayed to all supranational entities such as the UN, etc. We then try to convince the US that we will eliminate the terror sanctuaries using our own political strategy supported by required military action. Is that not what the US wants? If they still persist with drones, take them to court and the UN. Ultimately, if the is no response, we shoot down a drone to send a message–Iran did and the US got the message. A drone is just a machine flying in our airspace illegally and the international law allows us to shoot is down–we are not attacking the US personnel. If we build a national consensus and play our hand right, we won’t have to get to this drastic step. This is called politics on the grand scale, which requires calculated risk taking, not hiding one’s head in the sand like a pathetic ostriche. Between any two points, there are many mid points–only cowards or idiots slip from point A straight to point Z. America has other thing ago do in Iife, especially now given its precarious financial health, than to pick a new, more lethal war with an unstable nuclear power in a region hinging on anarchy that it is doubg its best to exits with some respect intact. Is that clear now, Mr. Naqvi?

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  • Indian Wisdom
    Oct 22, 2012 - 11:03PM

    “I may decide to vote for the PTI as the least bad option.” I think this is the dilemma most of the voters are facing in Pakistan today!!

    Recommend

  • Truth Detector
    Oct 22, 2012 - 11:05PM

    Well written. I agree.Recommend

  • Fahd
    Oct 22, 2012 - 11:15PM

    @ Something clever; Wow dude!! dont exhaust all ur english here, leave some for ur next anti pti comment, there are going to be many of express tribune… dont worry about it. As for faisal naqvi and ur observation( if u can call it that), like all policies of any party or leader, there is no need for everyone to agree with them. If faisal naqvi or u dont like or dont understand the policy criticize it constructively and ask logical questions, and when these questions are answered just accept the answers, again which u may not agree with. Writing articles calling Imran Khan a coward, clearly shows a bias. As for ur rant regarding Imran khan speeches and his contradictions. please elaborate on a few as well???

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  • Parvez
    Oct 22, 2012 - 11:37PM

    When you are cool and collected you write brilliantly. You have voiced my feelings perfectly.
    Come to think about it the PTI has at least two ex-Foreign Ministers and yet Imran is messing up his stance on the TTP / Taliban / religious extremists, this makes one wonder if he is being fed the wrong story or is his personal thinking skewed. Disturbing both ways.

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  • Ali sadozai
    Oct 22, 2012 - 11:38PM

    Bravo. Nailed it again. It’s amusing that PTI position on militancy doesn’t make sense to anyone except PTI itself….or JI…or zahid hamid…or Taliban. Look at how amazingly similar and consistent PTI position is with those directly responsible for this phenomenon today.

    Recommend

  • Mohammad Assad
    Oct 22, 2012 - 11:38PM

    @Something Clever

    I have not said anything off my own. Please see Arif Alvis show with Farrukh saleem and Shafqat Mehmoods show with same guy on Lekin geo.
    .
    .
    If you really want to hate Imran, dont stop on my account, though at least try to keep informed. Makes your argument sound better than just mindless drivel.

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  • Mohammad Assad
    Oct 22, 2012 - 11:52PM

    @something clever
    //So you’ve proven he contradicts himself. You did the work for everyone. //
    .
    .
    It is not contradictory. There are 2 wars. One is the war in Afghanistan being fought by the Americans and helped by the Pakistanis, the other is the war being fought by the Pakistanis against TTP. Both wars have been jumbled up.
    .
    .
    So you withdraw from the former, and concentrate on the latter by taking ownership of it. Something which Feisal Naqvi also makes a passing reference to…i.,e when he talks about Fata Leaders would be unable to tackle the Taliban….although he did not get the context of it.
    .
    .
    Anyone who saw the video I posted, would have automatically come to the same conclusion i did, without ever watching any of Imrans other programs. You on the other hand are “Something Clever”. I wonder why you had a difficulty in getting it???

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  • Pak-Troll-Intern. (PTI)
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:02AM

    Another sixer by Adv Naqvi. sir I have not seen the great Imran Khan bowler being hit for so many sixes by a single commentator. Keep up the good work and keep hitting the sixes and dont worry about the PRI minions shouting howzaat

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  • Hafeez
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:07AM

    Great job. “My problem, in the end, is that I had expected more of Mr Khan than what is offered by the PPP and the PML-N. Apparently I was wrong.” I totally agree with this assessment.

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  • Ahmed
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:07AM

    Well written article yet again. I’d request Imran Khan being a confused personality, not to make other people confused too. He has a problem in getting clear cut messages across to the public. After listening to him few times I’m convinced that either he is kinda insomanic or has a problem in delivering impromptu talks. Just like Jamat-e-Islami and other hypocrites IK also hesitates to name TTP while condemning them softly. Shame on you IK and PTI, people are not dumb like you..

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  • Arifq
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:08AM

    Feisal Sahib, your reservations are valid and real, but Khan sahib is a politician and like any other shrewd politician ready to make deals. When he started his career in politics, Khan Sahib was given a early harsh lesson in politics when his personality was attacked from Mosque loudspeakers. Since then Khan Sahib has decided to make peace with the forces who can not only destroy your reputation but also take a life and not be challenged. Imran Khan is not a man of great principles, that should have been made obvious to people by now except for his emotional die hard fans. Keep writing Feisal, keeps people educated.

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  • Falcon
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:25AM

    Faisal – I think it is one of the few occasions where I have to disagree with you. As @Sultan above mentioned, the objective of all what IK is saying is to reduce the foot print of militants by first reducing the unity in their ranks that comes from a unified message of ‘Jihad’ against a foreign occupier. Once this narrative is broken, the emotional support available for militants will collapse to a significant degree and we will be able to take them on relatively easily. Forget about IK, an ex-CIA station chief of Afghanistan has made similar remarks. We have to agree on the root causes of the issue before we proceed to the solution. Its a war and we have to choose the strategy that lends us the maximum impact on our internal enemy.

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  • Haris Chaudhry
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:28AM

    Ik is pandering to the mullahs, talibans and its supporters and he knows elections are near. No amount of sense will make him change his double talk.. He sees elections around the corner and he wants to get elected..

    He knows the truth but is scared of alienating millions of taliban sympathisers and religious right.

    Its a dangerous path and IK is playing pied-piper to tens of millions of gullibles of this nation.

    Recommend

  • Noman
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:46AM

    Man with a Mission., Man= Faisal Naqvi, Mission= Malign Imran Khan

    Recommend

  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:52AM

    @Something Clever:

    You sometimes sound too clever for yourself and your inflated ego. Please read my comment below–it will answer most of your questions (but will not eliminate your reflexive hatred for Imran). Enjoy!

    Recommend

  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:53AM

    @Indian Wisdom:

    Alas, you don’t have a vote in Pakistan. Why don’t you contemplate if you should vote for BJP aka RSS in the next election or not?

    Recommend

  • Midas
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:56AM

    before that someone needs to explain what are those principles to a layman, and their full cause and effect for a proper decision. If he flip-flops between his principles then an ignorant person like me is bound to get confused.

    Recommend

  • Truth Detector
    Oct 23, 2012 - 1:06AM

    “I may decide to vote for the PTI as
    the least bad option.” I think this is
    the dilemma most of the voters are
    facing in Pakistan today!!

    @Indianwisdom, I am sure Indians have plenty of good options in their elections. Demagoguery of Indians on this forum ( ET) is mind blowing !!!!

    Recommend

  • Muneeb
    Oct 23, 2012 - 1:07AM

    I can bet that the author & Others like him can never provide solutions…If IK is wrong then what else solution do they have….Present it in media and be ready for grilling and then validate your points too

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  • hc
    Oct 23, 2012 - 1:17AM

    @Sultan:
    ‘We then try to convince the US that we will eliminate the terror sanctuaries using our own political strategy supported by required military action….

    A genuine question here..what is our ‘own political strategy supported by required military action ‘? what are u referring to here.

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  • Uqaab
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:18AM

    Feisal, the issue was not the criticism of Imran Khan, he’s already been criticised left, right and centre and well once in a blue moon that criticism makes sense as well but it was more the intensity of it in your article that surprised most. Its ‘non persuasive’ when you say that you expected more of Khan than what is offered by PPP and PML(n) hence your outrage. The outrage, logically, should be directed at those who got us into this position, the current and previous governments and the establishment (whatever that encompasses) much more than at someone who is still to have any input in controlling the terrorism, who is the only one providing an alternative solution (you may disagree with that) as you are surely not happy with how it is being handled at the moment. Yes, we do need to win the war and that is precisely why we need a change. Terrorism is the most critical issue and the one that impacts everyone across the board but don’t underestimate the impact of corruption, nepotism, non governance on the bottom half of the society, its no less than terror. Its a slow poison. Try to feel it if you can and I am sure your outrage would compel you to write something about that as well with the same force.

    We may not agree with Imran on everything but the need of the hour is to agree on one thing and that is to use all the avenues available to us to ensure that we keep the ones who have been given multiple chances to rule are kept out this time. Can Imran do worse than what they have done? Ultimately, we have to vote for the least bad option. There are no angels!

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:31AM

    @Haris Chaudhry:

    Wow, what a brilliant strategist you are! Imran is asking the Mullahs who have their own parties and the Taliban who hate democracy to vote for him? Amazing analysis! Why don’t you quit what you do now and run for President? We need geniuses like you to get us out of this mess. Bravo, bravo, bravo….

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:36AM

    @Mohammad Assad:

    Farrukh Saleem does not even know the difference between the VAT (indirect tax) and Income Tax (direct tax). Due to a lack of talent, all these “Shoddas” of yesterday now put on a suit and tie and portend to be experts at everything. Farrukh should focus on “Malika-e-Kohsar” Murree, which used to be his favourite subject. I honestly remember reading at least 20 articles by him on the condition of roads and “taste” of desi kukri in the Galliat!

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:42AM

    @PakArmySoldier:

    Wow. 007 James Bond! One Million Dollars! Can you please elaborate how this plot will play out?

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:43AM

    @PNP:

    And what if Obama is re-elected?

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  • Zainab
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:56AM

    Excellent article.
    It is unfortunate that IK supporters only consider pro-PTI statements to be logical and everything else as nonsense.

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  • Mirza
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:58AM

    Dear FN, you again hit it out of the ballpark! Sad to say but there would be some who would never have rational thinking.

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  • Oct 23, 2012 - 2:59AM

    Fearlessness is the difference between true leaders like bibi (who was attacked many times) and imran khan. He proved himself a burger kid himself, just like his followers.All talk no show.

    If fear of speaking the truth stopped people like bhagat singh, bose, gandhi, zakir hussain, gaffar khan etc then we would still be slaves of Britain.

    Truth my friend, requires guts , and malala proved she has way more than him.

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  • Pakboy
    Oct 23, 2012 - 3:10AM

    Is the author have Imranphobia? Why he always targets Imran Khan regarding war policies. Why not the same attitude for Nawaz League and PPP, MQM and ANP who are all in Government yet have miserably failed to secure Pakistan.

    Imran Khan is antiwar man, he has other more suitable on ground methods to end extremism.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 3:16AM

    @Vishnu Dutta:

    You are right. India is not a slave of Britain anymore. Walking in Pakistan’s footsteps, it decided to upgrade its slavery status by becoming a slave of the US.

    There is a difference between bravery and stupidity–you probably don’t know it but perhaps you do. Do you walk on the sidewalk or in the middle of the road?

    We don’t need martyrs. We need leaders who live, think and do. You can have all the mausoleums as tourist attractions”

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  • Kaizen
    Oct 23, 2012 - 3:17AM

    @Sultan:
    you have time and again equipped the readers with IK and PTI’s stance very precisely and succinctly. But its a real shame that some nerds just won’t get it. good for them!..their attitude reminds me of the saying that ” you don’t argue with idiots, because they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”

    @faraz: again passing judgements whilst not having zilch understanding of the underlying facts…if you can’t even understand a simple distinction, how do you expect people to take you seriously?

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  • Mohammad Assad
    Oct 23, 2012 - 3:27AM

    @Zainab

    Problem in Pakistan is that, criticism is allowed and encouraged, but when that criticism is criticized, those who are criticizing the criticism, no matter how valid there objections are, they become ‘intolerant’.
    .
    If faisal naqvi and his ilk are allowed to critique Imran then Imran supporters are also allowed to criticize Faisals criticism. Dont start judging people just because you dont agree with them.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 3:28AM

    @hc:

    Hello hc. The ultimate policy can only be flushed out after the clarion call has been sent that we are out of the US war. it will be done through negotiations with the tribals, who are sadly kith and kin to most of the militants. I guess it will involve some kind of recompensation and rehabilitation for some and induction into mainstream politic for others. We will simply have to expel all foreign fighters with the help of their respective countries and deal with the remainder who don’t see the light with force.

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  • Hammad
    Oct 23, 2012 - 4:02AM

    If Imran wants to intellectualize what the insane taliban do, he should do it in his private gatherings and save the rest of the country. There is no defence for why taliban target and blow up innocent people in markets, schools and hospitals. If tribals were so capable and farsighted, they wouldnt’ve let AQ and taliban into their houses, marry their daughters and rent their houses. It’s a myth that Imran is propagating that tribals can take care of taliban.

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  • Gandalf
    Oct 23, 2012 - 4:22AM

    @ Vishnu Dutta

    Well said my friend. From your name I gather you are an Indian, but your clear, concise and very succinct post ought to shame these Pakistani keyboard warriors who are unashamedly out here in hordes to defend IK and TPI. Funny that this TPI supporters’ quandary over IK reminds me of a quote from some unknown..

    “You can try to change it, hide it, deny it, lie about it… but in the end the truth is still the truth.”

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  • numbersnumbers
    Oct 23, 2012 - 4:38AM

    For all interested in the mindset of IK, please do an Internet search for ” Imran Kahn YouTube Taliban burning girls schools”! You will see a TV interview where IK states that “The Taliban are not burning down girls schools, it’s all Government Propaganda”!!! Maybe all the PTI supporters posting can tell us JUST WHO has slaughtered the tens of thousands of Pakistanis over the last decade!!!!

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  • Lyari
    Oct 23, 2012 - 4:48AM

    @Mohammad Assad:
    Our enemies are within us. Why are we oblivion to this fact? And why is Imran Khan building his popularity on anti-Americanism rather than real issues that have engulfed the nation?

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  • LionOfPunjab
    Oct 23, 2012 - 4:52AM

    “…….it ( Imran T. Khans’s statement) represents a laudable concern for the safety and welfare of Mr Khan’s workers. …..”

    ..Just for the information of readers, the ANP has lost more than 500 workers in swat alone for being against talibans…Bravo!! Bravo.

    ANP and 14 years old malala has more Cojenos than Imran T. Khan or his supporters

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  • LionOfPunjab
    Oct 23, 2012 - 5:15AM

    @Sultan

    @Haris Chaudhry:
    Wow, what a brilliant strategist you are! Imran is asking the Mullahs who have their own parties and the Taliban who hate democracy to vote for him?

    He (Haris Chaudhry) is talking about a mind-set not the length of Imran’s beard!

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  • Ali Ashfaq
    Oct 23, 2012 - 5:48AM

    Kindly Note that IK is not the PM yet. Go with the time and wait a little man.

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  • shedy
    Oct 23, 2012 - 6:10AM

    IK is only man who is thinking seriously of finding a solution to this problem. Please let me know who else is doing that in Pakistan.. PPP PMLn or our army. Every one is either timid or hypocrite. This is not war where forces are pitched against each other like between two countries. Launching a full-fledged offensive when there are no enemy in front you, is nonsense. They might be concentrated in tribal areas but their operative network is all over Pakistan. This is a disease of mind manifesting in violence. IK is absolute right. He wants to isolate real bad elements and eradicate them with selective operation as last resort of all efforts.

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  • kahloon
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:35AM

    @lion of punjab imran have a plan u may agree with it or not that ur choice but what about mian shahib policy about WOT?ANP loss is condemaable but where is the leader ship ?they doing bussiness in dubai america and malasya ?
    give me counter solution except american one i will buy it .

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  • Zalim Singh
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:43AM

    you are asking a difficult thing.

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  • Sohaib
    Oct 23, 2012 - 8:31AM

    @Something Clever: Bang on target

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  • Sinclair
    Oct 23, 2012 - 9:39AM

    @Sultan

    Hate to break it to you, but Pakistan will not be able to get out of America’s war. Even if IK wins 3/4ths of the seats and has the power to unilaterally take decisions without worrying about consensus – PTI will not be able to pull out of this war. Moreover, we are not going to sit by and see another peace deal inked with the Taliban so that they can come closer to challenging Islamabad, and later New Delhi. IK, if he follows what he preaches, will have managed to achieve the unimaginable until a few years ago – the Indian Army will be in full force in Pakistan, and frankly we dont give a damn about good/bad muslims.

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  • Amanzeb Khan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 9:47AM

    Really amazed how you manage to distort IKs views to suit your narrative. For example in the interview where he said he would shoot down the drones he also mentioned that that would be the last step after all diplomatic options including going to the Security Council are exhausted. Secondly, he believes (and rightly so) that the US would never wage war on Pakistan because of this since Pakistan’s stance is a principled one and it would be the governments responsibility to prove that it is standing on principles to the international community.

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  • Usman Abu Bakr
    Oct 23, 2012 - 9:59AM

    Dear Mr. Naqvi,

    Sometimes hidden demons that emanate perhaps sub-consciously from political, sectarian and caste affinities lead of irrational fears of the ‘other’. The principal is simple, he condemns all acts of violence, believes that no violent struggle in Pakistan is legitimate. All he is saying is that sometimes you need to talk to the enemy to have a lasting and sustained solution. That enemy may be the Taliban and in the opinion of many the US. Note that both are killing Pakistani civilians whether through home-grown terrorist attacks or the state terrorism implicit in drone attacks. Remember the IRA was an out and out terrorist organization but talks with its political wing Sein Fein were necessary for peace.

    Now as far as the killings of civilians are concerned, they make our blood boil, but liberal extremists must also realize that the curiously dubbed ‘collateral damage’ means 176 (this does not include the 69 children turned to minced meat in Bajurr a few years back in the drone attack) children have been blown up. They too were Pakistanis and were certainly not children of a lesser God than ‘your’ soldiers and ‘your’ civilians. I hope you have the moral consistency to call them ‘yours’ as well.

    Perhaps a reading of the following report will enlighten you a wee bit:

    Stanford-NYU Report: Drone Attacks Illegal, Counterproductive

    In ‘Living Under Drones,’ investigators from Stanford and NYU Law Schools report on interviews with hundreds of people people in Pakistan about U.S.-led drone attacks, including 69 survivors and family members of victims. The report affirms Bureau of Investigative Journalism numbers that count 884 civilian deaths since 2004, including 176 children’ while ‘only about 2% of drone casualties are top militant leaders.’ It also argues that the attacks violate international law and are counterproductive, stating: ‘Evidence suggests that US strikes have facilitated recruitment to violent non-state armed groups, and motivated further violent attacks One major study shows that 74% of Pakistanis now consider the U.S. an enemy.

    So if Imran agrees with 74% of Pakistanis, the likes of yourself may have to submit to the will of the masses. Peace.

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  • Khan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 10:42AM

    My only suggestion to Naqvi is don’t go into default opposition. Your concerns have been addressed in video interview of Khan and Alvi Sahib. Rather than hue and cry over your understanding of things listen to others. Give us your alternate suggestions. Concentrate on solutions not personalities or cults. And above all give credit where it is due. I think if you ask other leaders they have no principle stand nor understanding of the issue.

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  • Usman
    Oct 23, 2012 - 10:47AM

    Definately a good article…
    But i wonder why people are so scared from Khan…(not to be taken in that sense)
    Have other parties given us so much that we are afraid to loose.

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  • Aarvey,india
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:18AM

    Very well articulated Mr Naqvi. And a very cool assessment of Imran’s failings. One gets the feeling that Imran does not have the maturity to lead Pakistan out of his mess.

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  • Zia
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:28AM

    I think what IK really needs is an elementary study of history and the FATA situation. The poor guy is diffidently sleeping and dreaming. When he talks of FATA, I always wonder if he is talking about FATA or paradise. He even forgets that before the Taliban, the same area was known as “Alaqa Ghair”, which was the final destination of every kidnapped person and snatched car.

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  • Raza Khan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:35AM

    Excellent Article! IK policies would destroy PK. God save PK from IK. IK is the brainchild of Shuja Pasha to divide the votes of PML(N). IK has very immature mind & was never known for his intelligence.

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  • sick of this nonsense
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:37AM

    @tahir:
    The article was pretty unbiased. When will supporters like you grow up and learn to take critcism constructively?

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  • gp65
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:42AM

    @Sinclair: ” IK, if he follows what he preaches, will have managed to achieve the unimaginable until a few years ago – the Indian Army will be in full force in Pakistan”

    I have always found your posts to be very level headed, logical and frequently providing me with perspective/information I did not have. I am surprised by this assessment which I have never seen elsewhere. Could you please elaborate your line of thinking please?

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  • Ali
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:46AM

    What if the Generals don’t agree with you on foreign policy Mr Khan?. What will you do then i wonder. I have yet to hear the great Khan criticize the army and its policies. Has the ‘Great Leader’ no stones to look the top brass in the eye and tell them to back off. Just because you said you will do something on TV does not mean you will actually do it when the time comes. You are all talk sir. Nothing more.

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  • R2D2
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:04PM

    @Sultan:
    Obama has psychological issues that would prevent him to be more aggressive, he can just use drones and kill a few people here and there and brag about that rather than having a comprehensive approach to exterminate the threat of global terrorism

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  • Bloom
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:11PM

    IK is a close ally of Taliban and also funding them through his social work projects. He is hopeful of coming into power with the help of Taliban.

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  • Azeem Aslam
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:20PM

    It’s beyond my understanding that a person who is a lawyer, how can he has a knowledge of tribal areas and the policies of PTI regarding war on terror. It is impossible that an internist conduct operation of a sensitive surgery.

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  • anticorruption
    Oct 23, 2012 - 12:55PM

    @Falcon:

    Don’t you think the idea of “separating ourselves from the American war” is a little impractical when Taliban and Alqaeda are using our soil to plot attacks in Afghanistan and elsewhere? The very reason why operations in the tribal areas started was that Taliban and Alqaeda were being given shelter there, otherwise the Americans wouldn’t have cared less what we do in FATA. Is there any way to “sufficiently” meet the conditions for “disassociating ourselves from the American war” without allowing these terrorists the use of our soil? If there is one, can Imran specifically spell it out for us?

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 1:10PM

    @Sinclair:

    Is that a threat?You are forgetting the Big Bomb!

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  • mateen
    Oct 23, 2012 - 1:23PM

    Failure to recognize curse of Talibans is not just problem of Imran Khan but collectively most of us are caught in the same delusion. Deficiency is in our social or psychological fabric which is so sensitive about religion that we turn speechless when taliban apologists argue these innocent souls are just demanding rule of Sharia. So in way Talibans are innocent souls who are out to realize the dream for which Pakistan came into being. That is why none of rightest party ever criticized Talibans.

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  • Pashtun
    Oct 23, 2012 - 1:37PM

    I think IK is a leader who even in the the face of compelling evidence flately refuses to recognize the enemies. The enemies are crystal clear about what they are upto. It is IK and his colleagues who have taken upon themselved to tell us that Taliban are not what the Taliban proudly and arrogantly say they are. TTP spokesman has made it abundantly clear that they hate everything civilized which includes democracy, constitution, rule of law and secular education. The politicians like IK has no place in the TTP Pakistan. Everyone wonders and is bewildered as to how IK is politically so naive and myopic as not to grasp the political realities of TTP that are staring us all in the face.

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  • Sinclair
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:12PM

    @gp65

    I did write a detailed reply, but moderator seemed not to have liked it. The gist of it was that, I am shamefully susceptible to hyperbole every once in a while – so take my comments with a pinch of salt. And the reason for my mentioning the Indian army was the nuclear weapons of Pakistan. There is no scope for negotiation with the Taliban in my mind, neither in Afghanistan nor in Pakistan.

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  • Mishrab
    Oct 23, 2012 - 2:25PM

    the author has proved that IK is a baby in politics…..

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  • Afzal
    Oct 23, 2012 - 3:57PM

    Excellent Article! I fail to understand that what is wrong with Imran Khan’s supporters. Mr. Khan please tell your supporters to stop barking on people who have a different opinion. The way PTI supporters react and act speaks a lot about their state of mind i.e. they represent extremist forces part religious extremist and part liberal extremists! Where are the sane Muslims? For God Sake, Taliban are not Muslims – They have nothing to do with Islam. NO negotiations – “Arrest, investigate and Shoot to Kill” is the answer to all problems!

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  • PPP-Workers
    Oct 23, 2012 - 6:23PM

    What color do you use on your hair? Does bot match Sir.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 6:32PM

    @Sinclair:

    No need to cover your tracks now–thanks to your previous post, we now know that you are a fascist, threatening warmonger hiding behind well composed English. You are fully out of the closet now. Like the absence of any spirituality in opulent Baroque churches, your whole intellectual edifice is devoid of conflict resolution and comes crashing down as soon as some one challenges you with equally well composed language. QED.

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  • amoghavarsha.ii
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:07PM

    @Sultan,
    You are the dumbest of all the commentators I have read hear.
    Simply because,
    How will IK convince Americans, when he has not convinced his own Establishment.

    Imagine for the power of convincing foriegners, when your OWN COUNTRYMEN care nothing about your words !!!!

    IK should first prove his strategy is GREAT in front of the ESTABLISHMENT, for all Establishment is the one who will have to act .

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  • Samad
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:09PM

    @Sultan:

    To view the motivation of terrorist organizations as purely anti-US is naive. Yes, obviously, a war against the US is an agenda for most Islamic-terror groups. However, I don’t buy Imran Khan’s rhetoric that if it wasn’t for the US, there would be no terrorism. Take the TTP for example; one of their major goals is toppling the Pakistani government and enforcing Shariah. Militants like the LeT: their goal, under the auspices of the ISI, is to destabilize Indian power in Jammu & Kashmir. Organizations like Boko Haram & Al-Shabab in Nigeria and Somalia respectively: again, their goals are to enforce Shariah. ‘Boko Haram’ means ‘Western Education is Forbidden.’ Pretty much on the same wavelength, then, as those responsible for shooting Malala Yousafzai.

    Why is Imran Khan’s view dangerous? He seems to be taking the approach that this isn’t our war, we’re simply stuck in it because of the US. You say that we should divorce ourself from the US and attack the the terrorists with our own means. I’m not sure of Imran Khan’s past statements on what he plans to do with the Taliban, but from what I understand, he believes that negotiation with the Taliban is what is required. This is again misguided.

    Another thing to consider is the tacit support for organizations like the Haqqani Network and the Afghani Taliban by the ISI. As long as elements within our establishment continue to use organizations like the Haqqanis as proxies for our foreign interests, this war isn’t going to end. The reason the US will simply not stop drones or other covert means to take out terrorists is that from a strategic point of view, those options make the most sense, unless Pakistan does in fact does seriously tackle the militancy in FATA. The TTP, though they have different goals, have deep ties with the Haqqanis and other organizations who are based in FATA but operate in Afghanistan. None of these groups are open to negotiation. That’s why its so important that leaders in Pakistan stop this duplicitous rhetoric and collaborate on own goal: to weed out militancy in Pakistan through military and covert means as well as to stop enabling proxies.

    The reason Imran Khan’s ideology is dangerous is that instead of providing a vision where Pakistani society progresses as a member of this globalized society, he plays the age-old populist card. He’s not willing to say the things that need to be said to avoid getting flak from the public. His statements about the Jihad of the Afghani insurgents were highly inappropriate and very disturbing for a potential leader of a country. He is nowhere near a revolutionary.

    “We then try to convince the US that we will eliminate the terror sanctuaries using our own political strategy supported by required military action. Is that not what the US wants?”

    I’m also bothered by this statement of yours. What do you mean by ‘convince’? Shouldn’t our goal, for own sake, be to eliminate these terror sanctuaries? Isn’t that what we should want?

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  • Noman
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:16PM

    @Bloom:
    I salute your pseudo-intellect, where in the world you came up with this theory? if Taliban had such power they would have captured Afghan Gov. why would they want IK to be run the Gov. in Pakistan? He is also liberal according to them?

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  • Falcon
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:29PM

    @anticorruption:
    I agree that we can not completely disengage ourselves, but we can pursue different degrees of separation. It has to be a multi-pronged strategy. Firstly, we have to stop supporting Taliban as our strategic assets. Secondly, re-claim anti-terrorism policy from military to bring it back to civilians. Thirdly, engage in cease fire and offer U.S. negotiation with Taliban and facilitate their exit from the region. Fourthly, shift the anti-occupation emphasis from physical struggle to ideological struggle (this one is the most difficult one). Lastly, by engaging in negotiations with different groups, their motives will come out in the open, reduce their mystery and make our internal enemy more predictable. As of now, it seems like we are fighting with blind folds on not knowing anything about what the enemy actually wants (what TTP says and what it actually wants are two very different things)

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  • Falcon
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:31PM

    @Sinclair:
    Hopefully you get a chance to introspect, but the statement you made was very disrespectful and nothing short of war-mongering. I would never say it to an Indian friend across the border.

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  • gp65
    Oct 23, 2012 - 7:58PM

    @Falcon: “I agree that we can not completely disengage ourselves, but we can pursue different degrees of separation. It has to be a multi-pronged strategy. Firstly, we have to stop supporting Taliban as our strategic assets. Secondly, re-claim anti-terrorism policy from military to bring it back to civilians. Thirdly, engage in cease fire and offer U.S. negotiation with Taliban and facilitate their exit from the region. Fourthly, shift the anti-occupation emphasis from physical struggle to ideological struggle (this one is the most difficult one). Lastly, by engaging in negotiations with different groups, their motives will come out in the open, reduce their mystery and make our internal enemy more predictable. As of now, it seems like we are fighting with blind folds on not knowing anything about what the enemy actually wants (what TTP says and what it actually wants are two very different things)

    I do not agree or disagree with your thought process but am trying to understand it. This is the first time that I have come across anyone who has tried to explain PTI’s approach to a degree of detail.SO thank you for that. Some questions I have are: If you stop supporting Afghan Taliban as strategic assets how will you have the clout to offer negotiations with them to the US as you suggest? Also you refer to ceasefire. DO you mean with Afghan Taliban or TTP because Pakistan is not attacking Afghan Taliban even today. You cannot stop what you have not started. Or by ceasefire did you mean that US should stop drones? How will you make them stop when they have made it very clear that they do not intend to stop. What is your leverage to do so? Blocking the GLOC was tried as a leverage but did not work. You also refer to engaging the groups but is that not what was tried during Nizam-e-Adl in Feb 2009? It is TTP who broke the treaty not the PAkistani government. When it comes to TTP, its goals have been stated repeatedly i.e. to impose shariah on Pakistan. Why do you say that their goals are unclear?

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  • Sinclair
    Oct 23, 2012 - 8:18PM

    @Falcon

    I am not reconsidering anything. If you think India will sit idly by and watch Taliban takeover, you are wrong.

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  • Lahori
    Oct 23, 2012 - 8:22PM

    Man of The moment: Sultan

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  • Sinclair
    Oct 23, 2012 - 8:30PM

    @Sultan

    “No need to cover your tracks now–thanks to your previous post, we now know that you are a fascist, threatening warmonger hiding behind well composed English. You are fully out of the closet now. Like the absence of any spirituality in opulent Baroque churches, your whole intellectual edifice is devoid of conflict resolution and comes crashing down as soon as some one challenges you with equally well composed language. QED.”

    Nice one. If you see, my reply was addressed to @gp65, and it was in replying to something she had said about my comments/opinions.

    Fascist, threatening warmonger! That is my own category of being different in Pakistan, I guess. If Taliban even so much as hint of a challenge to the Pakistan state, I do not think India can sit it out. You may call it warmongering, I call it survival.

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  • Zeb Bilal
    Oct 23, 2012 - 8:34PM

    Mr. Naqvi, you have wasted yet another weekly column in criticising IK. My question is what is your solution to the TTP problem? How about proposing a strategy rather than laying out just the facts. In case you haven’t figured, there is not a consensus on attacking the TTP militarily- This is something our dearest president pointed out at his SAFMA address. So Mr. Naqvi instead of going into a blind fury against IK, perhaps you would be wise in realising that negotiations are the ultimate solution to this problem. And please divert your fury to the govt in power, they are clearly least bothered and both the military and govt have failed to protect its Malalas. That is the reality- so so called loud condemnation and moral clarity actually are meaningless when we dont have an anti- TTP strategy. Alteast IK does.

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  • David Smith
    Oct 23, 2012 - 8:54PM

    @Sinclair: what you probably meant was that if push comes to shove, the Indian armed forces would help their counterparts (not necessarily boots on the ground) in Pakistan to fight the Taliban and other extremists.

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  • Sinclair
    Oct 23, 2012 - 9:16PM

    @David Smith

    No. I did mean armed intervention. Ideologically, at least parts of the Pak army seem confused and not ready to take on Taliban with everything they have got. Can I bet on my city not being obliterated by a brainwashed zombie pushing a button in Pakistan by solely depending on the Pak Army? I think not.

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  • Arthur Zobo
    Oct 23, 2012 - 10:01PM

    @tahir. Grow up, as in ‘vote for IK’ .What you are trying to imply that if one criticizes IK he hasn’t grown up.I think you PTI trolls are disenchanting too many of your supporters by your diatriberemember its policies that will get you the votes and in my long memory I have not seen any religiously biased parties ride on a vote bank.Its time you decide which side of the Divide you are this dithering will get you nowhere.For all its faults I give credit to the two secular parties ANP and the MQM for coming out openly on where they stand on extremism.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 10:23PM

    @Sinclair:

    And I call your whole thesis about Taliban taking over Pakistan pure baloney. That makes you a Malarkite in Joe Biden’s language.Recommend

  • Sinclair
    Oct 23, 2012 - 10:33PM

    @Sultan

    Soldiers are beheaded by Taliban, how many times now? There wont be any joy in saying “I told you so” a couple of years down the line, most probably because either or both of us would already be facing the consequences.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 10:57PM

    @Sinclair

    Great. So you dress up an intellectual and start prowling these forums to recruit the next Mir Jaffar or Sadiq who will help you crack the Pak army from within? Quite a diabolical plan but sorry to break it to you like this: it ain’t gonna work. Dangling bollywood beauties to goad them to sell their sectors to the Ambanis may work with the industrialist class in Pakistan you are conniving with actively but not with sensible and awake citizens of the country. Stop the theatre of the absurd now and do something productive!Recommend

  • gp65
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:09PM

    @Samad: Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful comments. Those are the concerns many Indians tend to have.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:10PM

    @Zia:

    He has written a book on it. When you get free time away from mouthing inanities, please read it.

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  • Lala Gee
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:16PM

    @Samad:

    “However, I don’t buy Imran Khan’s rhetoric that if it wasn’t for the US, there would be no terrorism.”

    Why most of the Pakistani commentators, save the Indian commentators for obvious reasons, including the author are unable to see beyond their nose. Where was that terrorism in Pakistan before the US invasion of Afghanistan?

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  • Sinclair
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:34PM

    @Sultan

    If spies were made on ET forums, oh what life that would be. Bond girl to go! But seriously, ET is productive. I have learnt so much about Pakistan without having to visit the snobbish-and-bore filters – aka – yesteryear Pak experts of Indian media.

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  • gp65
    Oct 23, 2012 - 11:43PM

    @Sultan: “the US war works is used as the devil’s glue that binds all the various bad apples–TTP, Punjabi Taliban, Arab Jihadis, Central Asian Jihadis, North African Jihadis, ex Kashmir Jihadis, ex and current Afghan Jihadis, Drone victims, Pashtun nationalists, global anti capitalistic romanticists, criminals, smugglers, and more! the US war essentially provides both a potent moral cover and an effective recruitment tool to bring people over to the “dark side.”

    Untrue. Afghan Taliban and Al Qaeda are the only people that the US is fighting. Kashmir jehadis like LeT and JeM were operatingfrom late 1980s – way before 9/11 and have nothing to do with GWOT. TTP goals are also fairly clear i.e. overthrow any democratically elected government in Pakistan and impose a shariah based government. They also do not believe in Pakistani constitution. They have said this repeatedly. Even when US goes in 2014, TTP will not go anywhere.

    ” What Imran is saying is that we should announce our withdrawal from the US war in clear, public terms. It does not mean that US will stop its war in Afghanistan–let them waste their blood and treasure if they so wish to do. All we need is a clear, public statement backed by a parliamentary resolution and relayed to all supranational entities such as the UN, etc.”

    Apart from providing GLOC there is no other participation that Pakistan has in the US war on terror. US would have liked Pakistan to support it by expelling Afghan Taliban and HAqqanis from Pakistani soil. But Pakistan chooses not to. Until these people remain on Pakistani soil, the drones will not stop regardless of who is elected come November 6 in the US.

    “We then try to convince the US that we will eliminate the terror sanctuaries using our own political strategy supported by required military action. Is that not what the US wants?”

    This is precisely what PPP and Kayani have been trying with increasingly lower credibility to achieve. How will you convince the US that you will eliminate terror sanctuaries without launching an operation in NWA and also rounding up the Quetta shura – stuff that US has gone sore asking for but which Pakistan army has refused to deliver citing capacity constraints. If you DO launch the operation, how will you convince Afghan Taliban or the tribals that you are not part of US war on terror? Also Imran says that the Afghan Taliban are waging a jihad – so how will you convince the tribals that Afghan Taliban who are fighting a jihad should be thrown out when jihad is farz in Islam?

    There are parts of your outlined strategy which appear inconsistent to me and are unclear.

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  • mocker
    Oct 24, 2012 - 12:28AM

    wow the ET is choc a bloc full of imran trolls. brilliant article, the truth hurts doesnt it PTI supporters?

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  • Sultan
    Oct 24, 2012 - 4:28AM

    @mocker

    Typical anti PTi troll–shows up when the party is over, barks some useless claptrap and moves onto the next post.Recommend

  • Sultan
    Oct 24, 2012 - 6:19AM

    @Samad:
    Imran is not accusing the US for starting terrorism–he is just emphasing that the US war is being used as a potent moral cover and effective recruitment tool.Recommend

  • Razza
    Oct 24, 2012 - 7:15AM

    اگر ایک کروڑ ستر لاکھ بچے اسکول نہیں جارہے تووہ طالبان کی کامیابی کا ذریعہ بن رہے ہونگے..اوریہ بڑے ہوکر پاکستانی حکومت کوکبھی نہیں مانیںگے
    نقوی صاحب آپ اپنی ملک کےایشوزکوعدالت کابحث بناکر اپنی وکالت کا کاروبارچمکارہےہیں آپکواصل حالات کاکھک نہیں پتا. کبھی اپنےآفس(کنویں کے مینڈک) باہرسےنکلیں توتب .

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  • OMG
    Oct 24, 2012 - 11:57AM

    @Sinclair:
    Can I bet on my city not being obliterated by a brainwashed zombie pushing a button in Pakistan by solely depending on the Pak Army? I think not.
    Loved your reply…
    Even if Taliban does not takes over Pakistan ..threats are real..
    ET had reported an attack on nuclear facilities by Taliban
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/432295/taliban-threat-nuclear-site-in-dg-khan-cordoned-off/
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/432428/3-killed-as-explosives-go-off-in-bhakkar-house/

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  • observer
    Oct 24, 2012 - 4:51PM

    Mr Khan believes that the TTP draws ‘legitimacy’ from American presence in Afghanistan and from Drone attacks in FATA. He further believes that what TTP does is only to exact revenge for Drone attacks.And that if you keep quiet Taliban will go their way, peacefully.

    These assumptions need to be examined against the facts on the ground.Since the immediate provocation is the attack on Malala Yousufjai of Swat , let us talk Swat.

    A. TNSM, the TTP faction in control in Swat was formed in 1992.That is about 10 years before US came to Afghanistan.

    B. The avowed aim of the organisation is to establish Nizam-e-Shariah in Pakistan.And not opposition of Drones.

    C. The founder was very active in recruiting Pakistani children for jihad in Afghanistan.Most of them lost their lives in the war.

    D. He was afforded state protection in 2002. So he is obviously not a foreign agent.

    E. And he was presented with control over Swat in 2008.

    F. TNSM was ousted from Swat for its own brand of Shariah by Pakistan army, which included public hangings.Keeping quiet was no guarantee of safety.

    G. And the group has explained that they attacked Malala for advocating education for girls.

    None of the known facts support Mr Khan’s thesis.

    Moderator ET- All these are facts in public domain.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 24, 2012 - 6:16PM

    @observer:

    Please, please, please stop the week old drivel dressed up as serius enquiry–Imran does not say any of that. What he says has been listed in these forums on numerous occasions–you just don’t want to listen. Like a little boy fighting over toys, your whole objective is to try to get attention by sounding “smarter” than everyone else. Sort the comments above by reader’s recommendations and you will find out what others think about what you have to stay. After all, it is a democratic forum!

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  • observer
    Oct 24, 2012 - 6:45PM

    @Sultan:

    @Samad:
    Imran is not accusing the US for starting terrorism–he is just emphasing that the US war is being used as a potent moral cover and effective recruitment tool.

    Well Mr Sultan according to you this is what the Khan is all about.

    And this is what I said.

    Mr Khan believes that the TTP draws ‘legitimacy’ from American presence in Afghanistan and from Drone attacks in FATA.

    Now, without using too many empty words can you tell me the difference.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 24, 2012 - 6:55PM

    @observer:

    You really have a problem listening. Sort the comments on Reader’s Recommendations–you will find your answers!

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  • observer
    Oct 24, 2012 - 7:39PM

    @Sultan:

    Do yourself a favour. Search for Pew Research Poll- Pakistan. Find that 86% of Pakistanis favour Death by Stoning for extramarital relations and the same numbers believe that Death Penalty should be mandatory for converting out of Islam and 50% believe Shias are not Muslims.

    All these people are wrong and so is the Khan and his Troll Army. The numbers do not change that.

    http://dawn.com/2012/08/15/who-gets-to-be-a-muslim-in-pakistan/

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  • Sultan
    Oct 24, 2012 - 8:03PM

    @observer:

    Well sorry to disappoint you but that is the country we got and these are the voters we have. This is Pakistan, not Sweden. Change will come slowly–I am sure there is a lot more bluster in these responses than actual conviction. Now, please go back to your capuccino–it is getting cold!

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  • observer
    Oct 24, 2012 - 8:35PM

    @Sultan:

    Change will come slowly

    If you know that the way, the things are, is wrong and needs to change, then why not Honestly accept it and work for the change. Or did I pitch the bar too high by expecting ‘Honesty’?

    I am sure there is a lot more bluster in these responses than actual conviction.

    You mean the responses hailing the Messiah in waiting? I knew some thing was smelling awful here.

    Now, please go back to your capuccino–it is getting cold!

    I am a humble tea (Sri Lankan variety doodh patti) drinking commoner. Not for me the luxury of Starbucks and Cafe Coffee Day ‘Capuccinos’. But then Burger Revolutionaries don’t care.Do they?

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  • Sultan
    Oct 24, 2012 - 8:50PM

    @observer:

    There there, quite predixctably, the edifice of civility comes tumbling down and the fascist lurking just under the skin bares his teeth.

    I do not want to waste time with you anymore but will give you some good parting advice: when you use data to lie, make sure you look at it before using it as a reference. The same Pew research you referred to (http://dawn.com/2012/08/15/who-gets-to-be-a-muslim-in-pakistan/) shows Pakistan higher than Kazakhstan, Malaysia and Indonesia, some of the wealthiest and rapidly developing Muslim countries. I am sure they have other growth drivers but it is also partly because they don’t have noneties like you masquerading as intellectual luminaries, posting useless drivel and wasting others time.

    And I am amazed that in Sri Lanka, we now have devout Pakistan bashers? Did we not give you enough weapons to get rid of the Tamil Elam? Or perhaps you are holding a grudge because you are part of the vanquished terrorists?

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  • Qasim
    Oct 24, 2012 - 9:15PM

    Great article Mr. Naqvi. Your insight that leaders’ condemnation of their enemies should not be brief is indeed profound. Long, contracted condemnations are what resolve national crises. *Applause*Recommend

  • Qasim
    Oct 24, 2012 - 9:16PM

    *protracted*Recommend

  • observer
    Oct 24, 2012 - 10:18PM

    @Sultan:

    I am a humble tea (Sri Lankan variety doodh patti) drinking commoner.

    The words in the bracket usually explain the word preceding the bracket i.e.Tea in the present context. It did not refer to me. But then Fast Food Revolutionaries, are fast and loose, if nothing else.

    I do not want to waste time with you anymore

    If you go back to my original post, you would find that it was not even addressed to you. You chose to join issues, now if you want to run away, do so. After all that is what you guys are really good at. Don’t expect me to be grateful to you or your leader for this.

    A.The same Pew research you referred to (http://dawn.com/2012/08/15/who-gets-to-be-a-muslim-in-pakistan/) shows Pakistan higher than Kazakhstan, Malaysia and Indonesia,

    B.Well sorry to disappoint you but that is the country we got and these are the voters we have. This is Pakistan, not Sweden.

    Both the statements come from you. In a less schizophrenic moment do make up your mind. Do you want to talk about ‘Pakistan not Sweden’ or do you want to talk about all other countries but Pakistan.

    shows Pakistan higher than Kazakhstan, Malaysia and Indonesia, some of the wealthiest and rapidly developing Muslim countries

    The Muslim population of these countries stands at Kazakhastan 60%, Malyasia 60.4% and Indonesia 87%. I can clearly see the ‘growth drivers’ when compared to Pakistan (98%) . Can you?
    http://www.pap.org.pk/statistics/population.htm#tab1.4

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  • Asad Malik
    Oct 24, 2012 - 10:42PM

    So Imran Khan has a ‘failure of principles’. Fair enough, I disagree with many of his policies. My question to you is, which set of principles does the present government and opposition adhere to? They have absolutely no morals or principles let alone fail to implement them. At least make an effort to hide your bias.

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  • gp65
    Oct 24, 2012 - 11:24PM

    @observer: Welcome to the club mate. You are the 4th Indian (that I know of) who has been personally attacked (not the content) in the last couple of days by this gentleman. BlackJack, Sinclair and I are the others.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 25, 2012 - 12:12AM

    @observer:

    More piffle and Malarkey!

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  • Sultan
    Oct 25, 2012 - 12:14AM

    @gp65:

    Tch, tch, tch, I feel your pain. I am still waiting on your answer to the vetoing minority baloney!

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  • gp65
    Oct 25, 2012 - 2:02AM

    @Sultan: I have responded to the facts. I have not responded to your personal attack and I will not.

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  • Anti-Imran
    Oct 25, 2012 - 3:32AM

    Another anti-Imran article. Which other politician in Pakistan shows any principles?

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  • Sultan
    Oct 25, 2012 - 3:24PM

    @gp65:

    If you read my post, you would relize that I was referring to Republic not Democracy. UK is definitely not a republic. About the rest I did not know, so preferred to maintain silence

    Madam, it is hard for me to believe that you don’t know about France, Germany, etc.–even a child can come up with a better excuse than that. Perhaps you should put down Atlas Shrugged and read something else to learn a bit more about the world other than the one that exists in Ayn Rand’s twisted imagination!

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  • gp65
    Oct 25, 2012 - 6:48PM

    @Sultan: “Madam, it is hard for me to believe that you don’t know about France, Germany, etc”
    You clearly did not know abou UK because you brought that in when I was discussing a republic. Anyway, my point was simple insistence on consensus to take action means that even a single dissenter can enforce continued status quo. In this manner, consensus = veto of minority. I hope that explains.

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  • Sultan
    Oct 25, 2012 - 7:47PM

    @gp65:

    You have no credibility left–you shamelessly mix facts and when confronted with an intellectual challenge, you start screaming for help from your other pseudo intellectual Indian buddies in the forum: hey bhagvan, daikho yeh zalim Pakistani mujhay maar raha hai! Then you come up with som more Malarkey to cover your tracks and then you concoct complete nonsense, which is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion to still try to come out on top. This is utterly exasperating and completely unintellectual.

    You are a typical sore loser– if I were you, I will take my piffle to somewhere else. Bohat, bohat dhunyawat!

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  • Sultan
    Oct 25, 2012 - 7:48PM

    There is no need to discuss the ideology of Pakistan–it is like asking how long is a piece of string? Everyone will have a diffrent answer. The fact is that Pakistan exists and we should get on with it. We are fortunate enough to have one of the best pieces of real esate on this planet, loaded with natural resources, highest mountains, prettiest meadows, fertile plains fed by some of the mightiest rivers on this planet, the bluest seas, the prettiest beaches, the loveliest deserts, birds, animals, gems, gold, nuts, fruits, vegetables, fish, livestock, grains, rice, cotton, sugar cane, art, music, culture, history, a well-equipped and sizable army, a nuclear deterrent, an entrepreneural spirit, an army of overseas forex earners, a geostrategic position and a large population.

    How many countries on this planet can you name that have even half of that? So many nations will give an arm and a leg to get what we have but do not realize. If that is not enough to build a good life for us, only God knows what else will be? What does it matter how it came to be? What matters is it did and we got a good piece of property–think of it as a gift inheritance. All we need is to develop it and enjoy living there as Pakistanis first and everything else after that. All we are missing is education and justice for the masses; hopefully, our new aspiring politicians have a good grip on this reality and will use their best minds to evolve a strategy that takes us away from the path of war to the land of peace. It will be great to live in a new Pakistan.

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  • anticorruption
    Oct 25, 2012 - 8:53PM

    @Admin:

    Why are you allowing this childish name calling between GB and Sultan? How this add to the discussion? In contrast, I have tried to post a response to Falcon 2-3 times where I was trying to engage with him on the merits of the arguments but you keep discarding it.

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