Pakistan

Don’t act surprised — II

The kneejerk reaction by some designer patriots surprised me. I don't believe all 170 million Pakistanis are barbaric.

George Fulton August 29, 2010

The kneejerk reaction from some designer patriots to my last piece surprised me. I certainly do not believe – as some people have claimed – that all 170 million Pakistanis are barbaric. That’s patently absurd. The point I was trying to make, perhaps clumsily, was that Pakistan has always been a society underpinned by latent brutality — so why the surprise over the Sialkot killings?

Before we can improve a society, we need to acknowledge we have a problem. Too many of my detractors were happy to play the man (he’s hardly lived in Pakistan etc) rather than the ball and discuss the issue at hand. We do have a sitting politician who condones the burying of women alive. One of our highest rated and most popular TV hosts does openly advocate the killing of innocent people — he describes Ahmadis as wajab-ul-qatal (punishable by death). He’s still on TV and his fans are obviously tuning into what they want to hear.

Would we have been as shocked if the Sialkot killings had been of Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus or homosexuals? Would we have been shocked if it hadn’t been filmed? If you read the city section of any newspaper you will read everyday occurrences of severe barbarity and violence. But no one protests or feigns outrage for those sadly forgotten victims. Acid attacks, stoning of women, karo-kari, and yes mob killings are an unfortunate part of Pakistani life. Yes, they are not unique to Pakistan. But they do happen here and fairly regularly too. Like an addict in denial, until we can face up to the brutality of our society we won’t have the political will to tackle the social problems that underpin them.

Two years ago we did a show in which we discussed the burning to death of some suspected thieves in Karachi by a mob. Despite our attempts to offer the alternative perspective – that maybe individuals should not have the power to become judge, jury and executioner – our callers unanimously supported the mob. No doubt the frustration is driven by the complete breakdown of trust with our law-enforcement agencies, but is the solution burning to death suspects? Is that what we’ve become as Pakistanis? The following week a girl appeared on the show who had been horribly disfigured by an acid attack. She hadn’t agreed to marry her cousin.

Shia doctors who have fled for their lives aboard wrote to me this week to describe having seen hundreds of their colleagues gunned down over the years. A man wrote from the Netherlands to tell me how his family of five were brutally murdered 10 years ago by a mob of a hundred in Takht Hazara, Sargodha district. His family was killed by sticks and axes. Their bodies were severely mutilated before being dragged in front of people to see. Their crime — they were Ahmadis.

The Maula Jatt example was also misinterpreted. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Saw films were given as examples of western violence in movies. Firstly, my piece was not a comparative analysis. Why do we instinctively feel the need to deflect criticism of our failings by looking at other’s failings? Secondly, I would argue that the US itself is also a society underpinned by brutal violence as fiercely satirised by such films as Badlands and American Psycho.

What concerns me about Maula Jatt is that he is very much the archetypal Punjabi hero. The protagonist is not some morally ambiguous anti-hero like Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver. Most of Sultan Rahi’s characters are vigilante warriors who perform extremely sadistic violence. He’s not just killing people — he’s using a gandasa to cut out their guts with relish. These films glamourise vigilante justice and sadism as well as perpetuate an ideal ‘super’ man for the Pakistani viewing public. Films like Saw and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre are horrors – you aren’t rooting for the one wielding the chainsaw. Or are we?

Finally, some people accused me of racism for my last piece. Despite having become a Pakistani, married a Pakistani, had a son who is a Pakistani, lived in and moved to Pakistan, it seems I am not allowed to comment on Pakistan. Now, pray tell, who is the racist?

Published in The Express Tribune, August 30^th, 2010.

COMMENTS (147)

Aown Kazmi | 14 years ago | Reply @ jai You are so right! Terminator, Watchmen, Spider man, all these western characters are just fictional role-models and in NO way are the subconscious wish of vigilante justice abroad. And I am sure even the acts of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Hostel are not at all feeding to the sick mind of the people in America and the rest of the world. Afterall there's an ocean of differences between Maula Jutt and James Bond inspiration and vigilante justice. For starters, one wears a Armani Sute and has numerous beautiful women around him.....while on the other hand we got a guy in kamez/dhotti who is trying to protect his liberties and most importantly, his loved ones. BIG DIFFERENCE, YES YOU"RE RIGHT ON THAT!

jai | 14 years ago | Reply agree with you. i also thought the comparison of maula jutt to texas chainsaw massacre was unfair. nobody roots for the chainsaw wielding maniac in that one though the maula jutt is the archetype for heroes in pakistan.

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Zephyr | 14 years ago | Reply @BQ: yawn...some of you sound like a broken record now and your comment especially is fairly vindictive towards expats. Talk about inane generalizing; and to think some of you have ants in your pants because of George's generalizing. Stop being a hypocrite and move on already. I dont see you doing much for your beloved nation either except whinging. Talk is cheap and extremely dull.....Zzzzzzzzz!

Bahroz Qalandari | 14 years ago | Reply Aown Kazmi: Good point! This forum is increasingly one where expat Pakis, who typically wring their hands privately, have found a welcoming cohort of self-loathers. They love to prostrate themselves before goras and ofcourse this is not George's fault. What another Paki says, whatever merit it might have, is trumped by what an average Joe, err George, may have to say. I guess post-colonial also means that you have gained independence but not jettisoned your need for a loving pat by a patronising gora. Now since PATS are few and far between, especially for EXPATS, their self-esteem has fallen so low that they are lapping up rebukes as well, calling it brilliant insight. They sell this animosity towards themselves as introspection, as if a swift rebuke is all that's needed to fix matters. Typically you will find expats not offering any solutions, because they're not invested in Pak anymore. However, living in the west they are not accepted as locals, and are therefore forced to confront the conflict that arises when they compare their original home with their new adopted home. Since all they read is the negative reporting in the foreign press, which makes better copy than stories of reconstruction or rebirth, they start having doubts about associating and identifying with their country of origin. The easiest way to exorcise these lingering demons is to rehash everything that's gone wrong in 63 years with Pak, thereby resulting in a cathartic renouncing of this identity. Somehow this is meant to come across like they care for Pak. They're not happy in the west and they can't really move back to Pak, given the picture they paint; stuck in purgatory. Those who want to hold out hope for this pummeled country are somehow hapless blind patriots, the equivalent of holocaust deniers. More importantly they create a problem for the feeble-minded identity these expats have created for themselves. They vent their jealous rage at us supposed lucky ones back home, who accept the faults of our society but are working to make it better. They thought living in the west would make them happy, but alas they went there for an ephemeral reality, and have realized it to be a heavy tradeoff simply for making money. On the weekends they only meet other Pakis and wonder why they can't integrate, despite having a superior education. My advice to these expats: Eat your heart out. We live here and love it, fully cognizant of our collective faults. We're working to make it better, and when we do, you'll be proud to wear green and white on your foreheads. In the interim may I suggest you bottle your daily production of vitriol, because all you're doing is getting your fellow expats into a lather.

Aown Kazmi | 14 years ago | Reply What I still fail to comprehend is How does a morning show host come off telling a Nation of 170m WHATS WRONG WITH THEIR PSYCHE ??? Perhaps it is our humblness which confines us to take criticism from this know-it-all wannabe bloger/pychologist. Or maybe its just that we really need a laugh at this desparing time period, and this is the closest thing we got to tickle our funny bone.

Alex | 14 years ago | Reply George you need to know where you are crossing the red line. So you should better read your seniors like A.G Noorani, Cowasjee, I.Hussain and Robert Fisk to know how articles are written while being critical and avoiding sadistic statements.

hordo | 14 years ago | Reply Mr George first of all please show my the stats which prove that movies have a significant effect on the way a society behaves as a whole . i challenge this claim you have made in fact i can show you statistics which prove the opposite. where i agree there are sections in our society that are prone to violent behavior but the way you have generalized this for the majority, is utterly saddening. does being a Pakistani or having a Pakistani wife give u immunity for being a racist ? because I still hold that your claims are truly racist. You do not understand the Pakistani society and have written this article from this ignorant perspective you hold in common to the West.

Defensiya Burger | 14 years ago | Reply This just in, saw it on the evening news. A group of robbers tried to steal money from a cloth merchant, and one of them was apprehended. The shopkeeper was beaten up by the robbers, and had a swollen eye. In an interview after the robbery, he said they didn't want to repeat what happened at Sialkot, because that does not define us. This is why the robber was handed over to the Police. I guess there's a tear in the monolithic conveyor belt of violence that underlies all us Pakis. Once we start on this slippery slope of not giving in to our latent barbarity, where will it end? Are these people the exceptions George, as defined in Arsalan Khan's rejoinder to you? (for those who haven't read it, please do so at the link posted by Nabiha Chauhdry above) Are you still sticking to your monolithic yet superficial rant George?

Rahil | 14 years ago | Reply Would prefer to be considered "thoughtless" than small minded, intolerent, bigoted etc. It is not simply a question of supporting what George wrote, more a question of his right to express himself as he wishes and how he wishes (even as a 'we'), just like everyone on this comment board. Rather than moving forwards, most comments seem now to be regressive and as dull as sleeping with valium: that old Dubya favourite "you're either with us or against us". Hopefully the negatives and the positives will cancel eachother out and we can reach a neutral concensus to all this tragedy around us. Those only seeing bad will now see some good, those only seeing good will understand the bad and try to move forward together. On the other hand we can of course continue to bludgeon eachother to death....Maula Jatt style (although personally prefer Beetlejuice to MJ)

Aown Kazmi | 14 years ago | Reply Dear George, Your simply taking back your words and now trying to reconcile with the general public of Pakistan, who feel back trashed by your uncalled for comments. You like your fellow writer "Mr. Fasi Zaka" publicized yourselves by creating articles which demeaned the Pakistani culture, society, values and norms. This was surely to get you more attention (be it good or bad) than one could have hoped for, and you achieved that. So for that, I as a reader congratulate you. However, my main problem with this is Why take back or better yet "Justify" yourselves now? Why undermine the true message of your article by saying "We the public read it wrong, and thats not what you really meant" ?!? Making part II of your insensitive blogs isn't going redeem your popularity with the ones who now see you as one more of the pessimistic, no-good, useless, unproductive, archetypal "Westerner". Who come to a country, win the hearts of the people there, save his dream girl and than knifes the same people who give him his role-model persona. And lastly, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS YOUR NOT A TRUE PAKISTANI ! Marrying someone, moving to their country and having a kid with them, just for the love you have for that particular person doesn't mean you love the country itself. The reasons why you moved to Pakistan are clear to the people, and even more clear to you. To be a Pakistani (or for any country) you have to be raised in Pakistan, be taught the values in that Pakistan, learn the importance and sacrifice by your ancestors which went onto create that Pakistan! A citizenship stamp, simply doesn't cut it in the real world. Be it here, or anywhere else in the world. Also pardon me and the other wannabe deisgner patriots for fighting for the leftover reputation of our nation. I hope we weren't a big inconvenience for you in time of your righteous preach on justice, morality, tolerance and the counterpart everyday Pakistani. A.K, 16. Lahore

Nabiha Chauhdry | 14 years ago | Reply http://obamasaysdomore.wordpress.com/2010/09/03/an-open-letter-to-george-fulton/#comment-125 MARVELOUS PIECE FOR MR. FULTON AND HIS THOUGHTLESS SUPPORTERS

ali | 14 years ago | Reply Good one George...

Lynette Dias-Gouveia | 14 years ago | Reply The intention was to lighten the air a bit.. but never mind.. I shall accept your rebuke.. There are some aspects to your post above that I can understand however, what I don't get is why people here take criticism so negatively... Re. flood relief work.. those who know me.. know my work therefore.. have a good day my friend and it's a pity that you would try to insult somebody re. such a sensitive issue in your country..

BulBul Khan | 14 years ago | Reply Lynette D-G: In case you missed it, this piece is directed at the pontificating urban elite on display here, you and I included. I specifically wrote that last line KNOWING that my post was lengthy. I knew there would be someone who would try to reach for the obvious. Congratulations, you have just won a trip to Charsadda to help with flood relief work.

Lynette Dias-Gouveia | 14 years ago | Reply @ Mr. BulBul.. for someone who says and I quote 'talk is cheap........ no guts and plenty of spare time.. You certainly have a lot to say.. and by the length of your comment... plenty of spare time... :)

Natasha Raza | 14 years ago | Reply @BulBul Khan you my friend, *ARE SPOT ON *!!!!!....thank you for giving words to what so many of us are feeling while going through these blogs. GOD BLESS YOU,,,

mak | 14 years ago | Reply I meant ''racist not anti-racist"

mak | 14 years ago | Reply Although I haven't read your previous article but of course you are a Pakistani and we all wish you the best like all other Pakistanis. People who have called you racist could be suffering from a deluge of anti-pakistan press recently and may well have over reacted. Having said that - no one is justified to call another ant-racist and this act alone should be condemned.

BulBul Khan | 14 years ago | Reply Let’s set one thing straight. Everyone on this blog agrees that Sialkot was wrong. The whole argument here is about George’s way of analyzing the event. He comes at it with an a priori bias, which is his belief in having figured out how the Paki psyche works. He doesn’t get Maula Jutt or partition, and is flailing for cultural icons to buttress his argument about our intrinsically barbaric psyche. And like most tourists with a limited vocabulary of our language or cultural nuances, he may be forgiven for drawing superficial conclusions. What he cannot be forgiven for is trying to foist this literary device of pretending he’s Paki and then subsuming himself as our collective conscience. As if to say, wake up you barbaric buffoons, why are you standing around doing nothing. But contradictorily, his title says the opposite. Don’t Act Surprised, instead, implies a culpability and moral debasement on our part, where we stand and feign surprise at that same barbarity. Which one is it George? Are we just passive or secretly enjoying it? Does it really matter? When you feel you’re on a roll, keep typing. I believe, as do many others, that to bludgeon the collective is wrong. No matter what short term satisfaction George or Fasi get in condemning us to the refuse pile, there is no way it’s helpful, except if you get a rise out of shocking people. Maybe it’s chic, you get immediate SMS’s from your friends at your seeming bravery at sticking it to them, the them in this case being those illiterate boorish rural poor. It’s not Mr. and Mrs. Ivy League who are being criticized here, OK. Maybe you chuckle and high five with the hip crowd, in accented English, for how you really needed to get that creative voice going again. Congratulations. All you guys did was walk into a bad situation and pee all over it. That’s hardly courageous, as some have said, on the contrary its going for the easy kill, or rather overkill. That you can write grammatically correct English is often enough to get kudos here. Every one of us wants Pak to improve its protection of minorities, the weak, the indigent, and the poor. We want the govt to provide basic rights such as food, shelter, jobs, security, justice, health, drinking water, and all this while paying no taxes. (Now some monkey is going to stand up and say, “I pay my taxes!” Good boy, thanks for sharing that, and moving on …). We are a moral nation and we want it reflected in our institutions, and we want that morality implemented through our parliament and our judiciary. The problem is that in 63 years we haven’t done much with the independence that Jinnah and his team pretty much gifted us. Yes we do largely have a habit of standing and loitering, with the occasional cheer to whomever we see taking action, like Edhi, Imran Khan, Akhtar Hameed Khan and the list is huge. But by and large, most of us are too scared of reprisal to say or do much; too busy trying to scrounge for food; exhausted from the effort of day to day survival; so please excuse us if we don’t stand up to make cool iconic images when a camera happens to be taping barbarity. Yes we would have so liked there to have been a small redeeming act or even a morally ambiguous anti-hero in that Sialkot reel. But that’s how real time footage is, and it’s not always poetic. To say that the violence was feeding some fetish for the onlookers is crass, as we don’t know how they felt, even if they were passive and didn’t intervene. This wasn’t Hyde Park Corner exactly, nor was it the Oxford Union. Two boys were getting killed. Would you have intervened George, if you were there? Anyone … Anyone! Anyone of you hand-wringing brave stalwarts (going on endlessly about our lack of morality)? Silence. Yes, I thought so. It is your denigrating sneer towards the rural poor which allows you to be seduced by George’s facile lament. It’s this cynical sneer that all you Georges possess, but I suspect you’re not even aware of it. Finally, all you self-loather’s, supporting this line of argument, you too are frustrated with the state Pak is in. It’s understandable and my advice is, keep your knickers on and have some faith in yourselves. As for most of you expats, your whole identity for leaving is constructed around the axiom that you had to get out because things were going poorly. Good for you, but excuse us if we think you’ve lost your objectivity because of that. You will only see the bad because you want to reinforce that you left for the right reasons. We all know you miss Pak a lot, and this tough love you dole out is exactly that, Love! As for the so-called designer patriots, they do not want to deny the ills of Pakistan. They expected balance from George, and they were disappointed when they didn’t get it. Why did he have to be so emotional like the rest of us Pakis? No one here is in denial that things are bad. We all know that this downward spiral is unsustainable, but venting about your pet peeves makes you lose sight of the larger issue, which is how do we fix this sucker. Of course, identifying the problems, breaking them down into smaller pieces and fixing them a piece at a time is how you do it. Don’t lose heart. I ask each and every one of you. What will YOU do to bring about a better tomorrow? The silence is deafening. I have to say talk is cheap, and anyone can be a blogger hero, it takes no guts and plenty of spare time.

Talia Shahbaz | 14 years ago | Reply HEY GEORGE...... A QUESTION : Your analysis is realistic, honest, and meaningful. And yes, at this point we all should be paying attention to what factors perpetuate this heroic 'mob mentality' in pakistan.... ppl who feel as if they can exercise divine justice or wutever..... sit in judment on others. Its like, sheesh, it is primitive! i wonder why no one is bringing up RELIGION as yet? in these debates? hmmmmm???? recently i was at a protest for the sialkot brothers--- uhhh... at one point the protest was going strong and suddenly women in burka started going upto all the ppl demanding they say their PRAYERS.... the protest was broken up... and lines of ppl kneeled down to say their prayers.... :) They went to each person one by one, ---- and all of us guiltily went to pray (arraay babies chotay chotay) another example of mob mentality, dare i say? In our country, there is no line drawn between what should be public and what private... and ppl listen to others like sheep... because of course we are all god fearing (@$@$@) citizens. If the crowd go to pray, we go.. if crowd go to kill, we go... no? THERE IS NO INDIVIDUALITY, very little spirituality, no humanity left----- and individuality, humanity, spirituality, the three go together. If one isnt there the other two arent either.

BT | 14 years ago | Reply Some people on this forum, comment for the sake of commenting, without thinking, because it's just easier to do than to put your heart out there for everyone to judge. We need people like you who choose to switch their passports for the green one, in a time when most of us are tempted to trash our passports.

Asiya | 14 years ago | Reply "Designer Patriots" now thats a term I would pass on..far and wide. Kudos! Dude

Asiya | 14 years ago | Reply George-your earlier article was the truth-the ultimate, truth..coming face to face with ourselves scared us, petrified us.

Ali | 14 years ago | Reply George, Why don't you just stay with your previous passport. It suits you better.

Mustafa | 14 years ago | Reply "Films like Saw and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre are horrors..." So if in SAW they used 'Gandasa' in every other torture game, would that be barbaric enough? Or going the other way around, if Sultan Rahi used the same techniques as used in SAW to kill his enemies would that be then refereed as to a horror film? Any how debating on films and comparing them seems to be pointless at the time. The main concern which is very heart breaking that any one can stand up and say we are a violent state, may I know who is giving us this label?, it is coming from the west. -Why don't we call the people of Israel that way? when the whole world knows what is happening in Palestine.(Google out the Images) -why don't we call India barbaric when we know what is happening in Kashmir?. -Why don't we hear the news on the street killings that happen in USA every other day? -Why don't we read about the rape cases is USA? -Why don't we call the killings in Iraq barbaric? -Why not what is happening in Afghanistan by USA soldiers? -Why not the brutal case of Dr.Afia? Is that horror or barbarism? -Why don't we get much news on HAARP? Why don't you being a Pakistani do write something about Dr.Afia? Why is all the focus on Pakistan? Because this is all being staged against us, the media is forced in this direction. As for the last issue you have discussed as racist, we my friend in Pakistan are very open at heart, giving you the Pakistani passport we have taken you as a brother, why is the same not as for the Pakistanis' in USA or UK? even after getting the nationality they are still seen as Pakistanis' that also with disgrace. Who has a small heart and is barbaric? Can you answer?

Umar Farooq | 14 years ago | Reply Well done George! Its so sad that some of the people commenting on this article are not willing to call a spade a spade. You are more of a true Pakistani then most of the pseudo-nationalists who I bet break every law in the book and evade taxes. Its easy for them to always point the finger externally and never examine the brutality and horror that takes place in our own backyard. Keep up the good work

Ali Mahboob | 14 years ago | Reply George, So you have finally mustered the courage to reply. Probably because it hurt! That's exactly the reaction plenty of readers experienced after reading part 1 of your article. And you've just defended yourself here, probably because the guilt got to you. And in your first article, you had criticized us, you had mocked us, you had made fun of us! no point in trying to cover up or play nice. I still say we're all surprised at the Sialkot killings because it is NOT normal. We're all still shocked because this is NOT who we are. And Mr Fulton, marrying a Pakistani and raising a Pakistani boy does not make you a Pakistani. Your words from the first article made that pretty obvious. To me, this cover-up, was a mere attempt at "un-doing" the damage!

Gulshan Munir | 14 years ago | Reply I totally agree with Mr.George that people just listen what they wants to hear only.

Dt. Altaf ul Hassan | 14 years ago | Reply Goerge,You are as loving and adoring for us as any other Pakistani citizen may be.Please keep on writing what ever you like to write for Pakistan.You have every right to do so.

Hasan | 14 years ago | Reply George may be you need to start worrying about UK too. Its not getting any better; UK: Hate Leaflets calling for the murder of Ahmadis http://www.spittoon.org/archives/7750

shaan | 14 years ago | Reply good read and its so true .... spread the light we need it

Umair Ahmed Abbasi | 14 years ago | Reply you are every bit of Pakistani as we are George. Its actually a problem with our nation we recommend staying in denial than someone showing our true face. Its not only you even if a Pakistani Origin Pakistani tries to give opinion he will also be blamed. You at least have enough time to discuss Issues we would be concerned about. We need people like you who can show our real faces. As for the incident of Sialkot its not long lasting like other issues it will fade as soon as those convicted will be punished. But the question is if the punishment suggested by the law will be enough to stop such future incidents? We all know that they won't hang all of them since no one knows whose blow was fatal to kill those innocent guys. But I sure hope that those involved will receive the same behavior of punishment as those two innocent boys to avoid future incidents.

Rahil | 14 years ago | Reply What constitutes a "Pakistani"? Seriously, I for one am intrigued after reading sone of the absurd comments on here. As far as I am concerned, no matter what your Colour, religion or country of origin, if you are paying taxes in the country in which you live or contributing in some other way then you have every right to refer to yourself as "we" as much as anyone who was born in that country. Where did Coloniolism or the West (and even China and the Army!) come into it? There are many individuals of Pakistani origin living all over the world and in those countrys they are free to speak out against any injustice. I have come across many articles written by such individuals in both the European and US press; frankly codswallop to state that it never occurs. Rather than argue over why George refers to himself as a Pakistani, surely 'we' should be proud that he is doing so. By continously hawking back to Coloniolism etc it seems it is the rest of us who have an identity crisis; George seems to have far more clarity as to who and what he is. We are happy to write in English, read English, speak English, dance to English songs, dress in English clothing, study at English schools, spend are summers in England, eat 'their' food and drink 'their' alcohol but God forbid that one of 'them' should refer to himself/herself as one of us. Utter nonsense and hypocrisy! Time to move on from all this infighting and show some togetherness instead.

Mohammed Abbasi | 14 years ago | Reply Actually that would be rather cool :) And Rana Bagwandas as Prime Minister! (THE MULLAHS AND THEIR MIRRORS IN THE WEST WOULD LOVE THAT :D)

ahmed | 14 years ago | Reply George for president

Rauf Anwar | 14 years ago | Reply george , YOU ARE NOT RACIST !!!!!

Ehsan Khan | 14 years ago | Reply From another commenter, "The only entity that works, is the army, and ofcourse now they are being encouraged to intervene to remove this inept civilian leadership. We are just like the hapless onlookers who would either passively observe, or actively participate in the government sponsored public corporal punishments (meted out for suspected treason) in Britain’s Tudor era. Read Saadiya’s post from page 6, DAS Part 1. More gory than anything at Sialkot, and government sponsored. Well Britain went on from feudalism to parliamentary democracy and firmed up the legal framework for protection of the weak and indigent. Pakistan obviously is in a medieaval stage of development, and those who don’t realize this are smoking dope in the tiny urban havens they inhabit. We know our institutions don’t need fixing, because they don’t exist yet. We will follow our trajectory to civility and enlightenment, hopefully soon, hopefully without cataclysmic events. The western model appeals to some, but the Chinese model is fast gaining credibility in the eyes of many. When we observe Pakland with a western sensibility which has its unique christian history, and post reformation and enlightenment its more fashionable to call it secular, there will always be antagonistic baggage to label and judge countries like Pak. George, you may not be doing this consciously, but a number of your boosters who support you here are guilty of this mindset. They oh so want to be liked as Pakistanis but there’s never any good news coming out of there. Hence they grasp at the self-loather’s favorite device, criticize your mother, country and morals. All you guys are useless. Those who want to build Pakland are out there in the villages feeding the 20 million as we speak, they don’t have time to sit and whine on blogs." Strange. The urban middle class is "building" Pakistan. We give 20 paisas to our corrupt govt for every rupee we spend. Other than that , we are the only ones really in the tax net. I personally have donated quite a bit of money , clothes and food to the flood affectees. So have many others. Self-criticism is a good thing. It leads to self improvement , atleast for ppl with a conscience. If the army is the only institution that works , why is that so? Why are'nt they stuck in a medieval stage of development? And who says our institutions are non-existant. They exist alright. But for whom? If change will ever visit Pakistan , the urban middle class will have to invite it. I know they want to and I know theyre trying. George speaks the mind of this class and if you remember the show that made him famous , he has definitely mingled with ordinary Pakistanis. So please just back off and let him be. Let him speak his mind. Its for the better in my humble opinion.

Sobia Aman | 14 years ago | Reply George , we always appreciate ur pieces in the newspaper. What all the Americans and the Europeans did to dislodge the American Indians thru brutal slaughter has been repeated by the Israelis and the people responcible for the Bosnia-Chechnia massacares. Ofcourse in Pak we have to condemn such acts of brutality and hopefully with people lke u who have such deep instinct and feeling, we will be able to condone it . By the way , Mubarik for having a son . Congrats to Kiran too. U all have our good wishe s.

muniba | 14 years ago | Reply George's statement ''Why do we instinctively feel the need to deflect criticism of our failings by looking at other’s failings'' is rather irrational, considering the fact that Pakistani society does not live in isolation from the rest of the world,hence it only makes sense to compare our failings with those of other socieites. After all, even the most so-called 'civilized' societies in the world carry out atrocious and barbaric crimes against humanity(e.g, the genocide of indigenous populations in Australia and New Zealand; the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo,etc). Not that I'm using these examples to justify the kind of violence carried out in Pakistan. But my question to George is, how is beating people to death any less violent than killing innocent people in a drone attack? What makes mob violence in Pakistan much more brutal than that carried out elsewhere is the utter breakdown of the law enforcement agencies,as a result of which the masses take the law into their own hands when justice is denied to them.And since there is no sense of accountabilty in the nation as a whole, the unchecked mob activities tend to become more barbaric over time,with the masses actually supporting the mobs as they no longer see the difference between what is legal and illegal. No wonder the crowd of onlookers in the Sialkot incident did not budge on seeing what was happening.They probably thought that killing the 2 boys brutally was the 'right' way of bringing them to justice(since they no longer have a conception of 'right' and 'wrong' due to the the law enforcement system's turning a blind eye to their activities). And finally, i think that by repeatedly giving the example of 'Maula Jutt', George is suggesting that violence in film always translates into violence in reality,which is a grand assumption.

Bi Jamalo | 14 years ago | Reply Umm, excuse me! In DAS Part 2 you state: "I certainly do not believe – as some people have claimed – that all 170 million Pakistanis are barbaric. That’s patently absurd." Really? IN DAS Past 1 you stated: "We are, and have always been, a barbaric, degenerate nation revelling in bloodlust." Strong words and pretty categorical, don't you think? I suppose your readers are at fault for not reading between the lines and figuring out that you were actually trying to say, as you point out in DAS Part 2: "Pakistan has always been a society underpinned by latent brutality." Well now George, you may be trying to water it down a bit, through the lens of hindsight and circumspection. But you're still really saying the same thing and its equally wrong. What Pakis do have is a sense of helplessness, and frustration, fueled by the lack of any working social or political mechanisms or organizations. The only entity that works, is the army, and ofcourse now they are being encouraged to intervene to remove this inept civilian leadership. We are just like the hapless onlookers who would either passively observe, or actively participate in the government sponsored public corporal punishments (meted out for suspected treason) in Britain's Tudor era. Read Saadiya's post from page 6, DAS Part 1. More gory than anything at Sialkot, and government sponsored. Well Britain went on from feudalism to parliamentary democracy and firmed up the legal framework for protection of the weak and indigent. Pakistan obviously is in a medieaval stage of development, and those who don't realize this are smoking dope in the tiny urban havens they inhabit. We know our institutions don't need fixing, because they don't exist yet. We will follow our trajectory to civility and enlightenment, hopefully soon, hopefully without cataclysmic events. The western model appeals to some, but the Chinese model is fast gaining credibility in the eyes of many. When we observe Pakland with a western sensibility which has its unique christian history, and post reformation and enlightenment its more fashionable to call it secular, there will always be antagonistic baggage to label and judge countries like Pak. George, you may not be doing this consciously, but a number of your boosters who support you here are guilty of this mindset. They oh so want to be liked as Pakistanis but there's never any good news coming out of there. Hence they grasp at the self-loather's favorite device, criticize your mother, country and morals. All you guys are useless. Those who want to build Pakland are out there in the villages feeding the 20 million as we speak, they don't have time to sit and whine on blogs. Finally, George, as a venting mechanism your DAS articles have served as a lightning rod for the disaffected and numb urban elite. All your examples of Pakis are drawn from movies, TV talk shows, characters in books and people who have called or written in to you. Do you know any real people, do you meet and spend time with them face to face? To start broad generalizations about our morality based on this anecdotal evidence is at best funny, at worst irresponsible. I urge you to limit your role to being a media critic. Leave the social anthropology insights to those who can be more nuanced.

Ali | 14 years ago | Reply Excellent piece. Perhaps time to change the official name from Pak-istan to Denial-istan. Thanks George!

Yousaf | 14 years ago | Reply George, you are a Pakistani and we are proud that you have selected Pakistan for rest of your life... people of Pakistan are trying to be Canadian, American, Brits.. but even though you have choosed to be a Pakistani.. you wife may have choosed to become a Brit too. What is the concern here, no one can doubt your honesty and pain showed in the last article. But there are few people concerned and can not bear the bitterness and hardness of reality. They have their own problems. So just Keep it up.

Tariq Khan | 14 years ago | Reply While there is considerable merit in some of the arguements you present, the fact is that as with any nation which shook off colonial yoke, the last thing Pakistanis want is a gora sahib lecturing them on their less than ideal traits. While national introspection is indeed a quality much in short supply here in Pakistan, we need to create the grounds for a local indigenous movement from civil society that must confront these issues and suggest the way forward on this count. I know that's a long process but we Pakistanis need to stop looking for instant panaceas and short-cuts. However what your piece does is the equivalent of a naturalized Pakistani - British citizen telling the English that the monarchy is a fossilized institution that needs to be replaced with a caliphate in Britain, while he may have the constitutional right to air his views it'll probably not be appreciated by the majority. You're in the same boat, suggest you do us left wing liberals a favor by letting the local enlightened moderates take it from here. You're jumping in is simply giving the other side more fuel to accuse the genuine arguements of the "local liberal lot" of unfortunately being the motuhpiece of all that is evil, western and godless.

Mohammed Abbasi | 14 years ago | Reply Reading some of the comments attacking George I am sad to say this is a reflection of Pakistanis mentality after decades of having bred into them hatred and fear of reality - the minds are bunk and Islam and Muslims have been replaced with Mullah worshipping unthinking, unreasoning drones

Rabia Baig | 14 years ago | Reply It's interesting that in Mr Fulton's country of origin , a Pakistani journalist would never get as much freedom to comment on English society as he does. This is a fact. No matter how many English women he married or how many English children he sired. The British media is a cut-throat unwelcoming industry and very few "outsiders" actually get in. So he is most definitely being welcomed in & celebrated by the mere fact that he is given space to speak. If such a phenomenon were to occur in the British media it would also be resented. Mr Fulton you know you are walking a fine line. But using "we" is pushing it. How can you be "we". You aren't! Your perspective is totally valid and refreshing but please don't talk as if you've been here all along. It comes across as disingenuous.

Ehsan Khan | 14 years ago | Reply ‎"Would we have been as shocked if the Sialkot killings had been of Ahmadis, Christians, Hindus or homosexuals? Would we have been shocked if it hadn’t been filmed". "Why do we instinctively feel the need to deflect criticism of our failing...s by looking at other’s failings? " I give George Fulton a thumbs up. He's more Pakistani than our "designer patriots" (good one Georgie) living in other countries and commenting on stuff they know little about. First hand experience is what counts. You have to live here to know what our society is turning into. I , as a Pakistani American who chooses to live here , can completely understand what Fulton's trying to say. And remember , you are judged by the majority. There will always be exceptions , and there are many , but you will always be judged by the majority. First the sialkot murders , then the similar shujabad incident just days later , followed by the murder of as many as five ppl over a sum amounting to about 30 American cents. Not to mention the cricketers adding to the infinitely long list of crooks in this land of the pure. Our majority is what it is. These criminal tendencies transcend the classes. Accountability is the answer , the only real solution. But who will bring it? Is accountability in our genes? I sure hope so.

sehar | 14 years ago | Reply This is the first time in my life that i am commmenting on anything i have read just so i could tell u Mr Fulton, that i agree whole heartedly with what u have written here and i for one, am genuinely not surprised anymore! I m totally sick and tired of these 'patriots'-people who want to hide behind excuses for their own frailities. I m sick n tired of individuals shifting the blame elsewhere whenever some wrong takes place in pakistan - be it suicide bombings, discriminations against minorities or cricket scandals! PATRIOTS, u do ur country no service by hiding behind conspiracy theories for all the ills that plague the country and society .. and trust me u shall stoop lower if u dont fix ur attitude. So grow up and take a good look within! You, Mr Fulton, have absolutely nothing to be apologetic about..

Sam Khan | 14 years ago | Reply Dear George... Though you have stated bear truth in your article... and I don't have any doubt on your sincerity, yet I would like to add a few words here... You have expressed, "Before we can improve a society, we need to acknowledge we have a problem." Well yes George, you are right, we have to acknowledge the problem... but do you think that you have successfully identified the problem with Pakistan and its people?? I am afraid not... The main problem with the people of Pakistan is not what you have expressed, (though what you have pointed out is mostly true) The BASIC problem is and has been our ruling elite, which has purposely kept "education", knowledge and awareness away from the majority of Pakistanis... This total lack of education in the masses has led to this total failure of this state... All the "barbaric" tendencies that you have mentioned in your post (though they are a part of the tribal background of this nation) could have been tamed through "education"... Had the children of our nation been able to receive proper education in the last 63 years, they would have emerged as much civilized and composed people... I blame the feudal rulers who kept this nation away from all sources of enlightenment, just because of their personal interests... It was in their favor that the masses stay in total darkness.... to serve them as their slaves and to be used as a vote bank who would just stamp the symbol of their master's choice without even knowing whom they are choosing as their masters... So please if you want us to acknowledge the real problem, then you should also try not to generalize and judge... Just think about the real cause of this decay and point it out in your articles too... In the end of your recent article it looks that you have become too emotional about choosing to be a Pakistani... George, believe me these simple, unaware and "barbaric" Pakistanis have a bigger heart than the white races of this world..and they have accepted you as one of them with all their sincerity... its just that us, poor Pakistanis are far less refined (due to reasons that I have stated above) to be able to hide their true feelings behind the smiling mask of sweet manners and superficial politeness which is the gift of "modern" western society...

Ghausia | 14 years ago | Reply "Why do we instinctively feel the need to deflect criticism of our failings by looking at other’s failings?" Word. You're more Pakistani than any person born and bred here Mr. Fulton. And not just because you choose to live with your eyes open, not closed behind rose-tinted glasses, viewing everything with denial.

SalmanZ | 14 years ago | Reply Dear George! We as a society build on the stone of Hatred! Over decades we were taught one word i.e. hate, in our schools, Madarsas, colleges, universities and even mosques. The mosques which are source of peace, tolerance and love became the source of hatred. Jihad is the only concept our Mullah has given to new generation. Those who were against Pakistan during independence became dearest to Pakistan to achieve their own agendas. No body every told us about the Real Jihad i.e. Your fight against your own unnecessary wants and keeping yourself away from forbidden things. When we talk about issues in our society it doesn't mean that each and every person is corrupt but overall we have very large number of people in our society who are corrupt. Killing Foreign Aid workers on the basis of their religion when they are here to help you without any discrimination. There are people who are supporting such people, other thinks its Ok to do that, and some are silent on it....I think they all a responsible for Killing of those Christian Aid workers. This behavior is common in each and every part of our society. We don't care or will keep silent until fire reach our home and burn it down. We are Racist! that what the reality is! wake up! Discrimination is reality! my dumb fellows. We are heart less and inhuman society realize it! Stop being in state of denial! You can't stop virus until you accept that you are attacked by virus and need some treatment! We all want Pakistan to became Quaid's Pakistan not the Mullah or extremist Pakistan. Each day is worst then yesterday! Around the world we are criticized for what we do! One thing I am sure about the fact that, George is as Pakistani as me or any other Pakistani of this country.

Natasha | 14 years ago | Reply designer patriots - nice term Why do we instinctively feel the need to deflect criticism of our failings by looking at other’s failings? True. This attitude 'we are not the only ones screwing up' never makes us make the necessary corrections. Finally, some people accused me of racism for my last piece. To me , you are more Pakistani than some 'designer patriots' out there. Patriotism is speaking the truth , raising issues that plague your country and criticising those who are responsible for corrupting the society instead of keeping silent in order to avoid embarassment our words may cause to our nation. They say 'be Pakistani' and shut up. Don't malign the country. But they fail to understand that they are actually working against the nation by keeping mum on their own faults and 'trying' to give out a positive image. False pride only makes things worse.

Nabiha Chauhdry | 14 years ago | Reply There is certainly a step or two been taken back from the last blatant article you wrote! It automatically becomes more digestible to us. The facts might have been correct in both the previous and this one, yet the way it is presented is what matters! So, for future, keep that in mind! Had you given an overall and comparitive perspective, giving some ray of hope some gist of getting out of these hapless situations we find ourselves in, I'm sure you wouldn't have heard the bashing out that you did.. Pakistani is one, who claims to be one in every good and worst situation, come what may!

Sabih | 14 years ago | Reply All the right wingers over here; they'd prefer "Mullah ka Pakistan" rather than "Pakistan ka George"

Waleed Khan | 14 years ago | Reply Geroge Fulton is a Pakistani - Salute to you George . I am sure most of these 'critics' would do anything to be where you were ...errr .. with a british passport

Hassan | 14 years ago | Reply George, you are more Pakistani than 80 percent of us, probably even more so than me, and i respect that like a civilized cultured 'paki' boy respects his mum and dad. Don't listen to the 'haters' or shall i say 'jahils'. Fantastic read btw, all of your stuff is, thanks for helping your land out and for trying to knock some sense into people!

hakeem | 14 years ago | Reply Sir, you certainly have become true Pakistani and evidence is your attitude like Pakistani writers, they consider themselves focal point rather thn material they write, Can anybody guide me why cant Pakistani writer remain just a medium/ a post man between ideas and poeple instead of insatiable I My Me... by the way its not meant to hurt.

Waleed Khan | 14 years ago | Reply George Fulton , you are more Pakistani than we or the 'designer patriots' can EVER will be .

Rahil | 14 years ago | Reply Some comments seem to be missing the point here; George is writing as a 'Pakistani' as he himself has explained very coherently. If he is "bashing" Pakistan and Pakistanis then he is including, not excluding, himself. He is not speaking as a "gora" or from a platform. I believe what he has attempted to do is to point out that no one should have been surprised at what occurred in Sialkot; that for once we should all be introspective and realize that in one form or another various forms of abuse occur every day in Pakistan. What happened in Sialkot is simply not the "it" topic/cause of the day- here today, gone tomorrow as so typically happens. And yes, Pakistan has a much greater disaster to contend with - the floods - but surely that's a precise reason for what happened with those two boys to be highlighted. It is shameful that this occurred right now. Yes, most Pakistanis are generous and empathetic but there are also many that are not. This "dirty laundry" is being washed at home - the article was printed in a Pakistani newspaper not in a UK or USA one, for example. Perhaps it is something better explained to the Pakistani cricket team, if the allegations prove to be correct; it is they who at this time should have been reflecting a more positive image of the country as it's ambassadors and it is they, not George or his comments, which will do much harm to future donations/help. Sometimes we need a slap in the face to wake us all up and perhaps that is just what George has done with his article. Most pople who watched the video of the murder of those boys, and the subsequent interview with their family, would have reacted exactly as he did. The difference being that he decided to voice his repulsion.

Meera Ghani | 14 years ago | Reply I feel this is getting quite out of hand, while everyone living in Pakistan (Pakistani or not) should be able to express their opinions- one fact should remain clear these are their opinions and cant be taken as fact. But we don’t need a constant rebuttal war when there are more important issues that need to remain the focus. At a time like this where millions in Pakistan are suffering I feel it was wrong of the author to pick this moment to bash Pakistani people and society. Yes, we maybe a “society underpinned by brutal violence” – which society isn’t? Most countries have a bloody history. But we are also a generous empathetic society that rises to the occasion to help those in need or speak up against injustices. Everyone reads the news we all know what goes on and while I agree these incidents should be talked about and brought to the forefront so justice can be served there is also a need a for us to think about how we can better address the underlying drivers of these issues. But let stop with the Pakistan bashing, with lives of millions at stake we need to be showing the more positive sides of Pakistan to the external world that is soo reluctant to come to our help. Lets be smart for once and wash our dirty laundry at home, lets think of the common good- which is to ensure our fellow citizens don’t have to suffer for longer than they already have. Lets do all we can to get the world to help us because clearly its not something we can deal with ourselves.

Ahmed | 14 years ago | Reply Really liked your first article and also agree with your second one. I wonder why it's so hard for people to accept that there is a problem.

Habiba Younis | 14 years ago | Reply George, your article was exceptionally brilliant and thought provoking. The points your raised in your article were absolutely valid. Those people who are flinging nasty stuff at you saying you aren't a Pakistani etc have defects in their moral fabric themselves.Your article showed real and honest concern for Pakistan which in itself is enough to make you a better Pakistani than many.Keep up the good work and don't worry for what those lunatics say! Trust me, they will always scratch out something to criticize out of nothing.

The Only Normal Person Here. | 14 years ago | Reply Bang on. We are the nation who justify rape case taking place in our motherland by stating "LOOK - AT - THE- U.S of A. What is more amusing is that the reactions from the people, as if any of the things were untrue. Reaction , apology and defending and pretending under the garb that Sialkot incident was a happening of once in a blue moon only shows either "they" don't read the news or "they" are wannabe talibans.

arif | 14 years ago | Reply You didnt answer the key points about partition either George - a bit of a cop out.

SAMSHA | 14 years ago | Reply George! I think u 've cleared readers a lot in this article ... former article was a bit of a sizzler.... @Rabia I can't grab ur point.... about the pointlessness of this article .... we like all other nations have our "evils".... pointing them out by someone who is not a born Pakistani is hitting most of us ... we r always in a state of denial when it comes to the ills of our society, we either blame our environment, or do some kind of comparative analysis. The brutal killing of these two brother is as always condemnable .... but its another fact that it was a reported case with a footage .... don't we come across with the news like honour killing of women (by jirga order), nose and throat cutting incidents, even "pasand kii shaadi" is a taboo which proves lethal (by their own families) to many couples .... so why are we so intolerant when some one with a different race points out the ills in our society .... don't say if "this" is happening in Pakistan ..."that" is happening in West ... such arguments are absurd ... our system needs serious overhauling ... and the Intolerance prevailing in our society is malignant perhaps much much destructive than any other evil.

Khan Waheed | 14 years ago | Reply George, What you said makes perfect sense both in your previous article and in this one. Those who criticised may claim to be true patriots but they are anything but because they continue to view Pakistan through rose tinted spectacles. A true patriot should be true in his analysis of a States pros and cons. At the moment in Pakistan there are hardly any pros but unfortunately many cons. People have become brutalized due to the evil acts of the vicious and evil. Keep writing as you are.

Meera Ghani | 14 years ago | Reply I feel this is getting quite out of hand, while everyone living in Pakistan (Pakistani or not) should be able to express their opinions- one fact should remain clear these are their opinions and cant be taken as fact. But we don't need a constant rebuttal war when there are more important issues that need to remain the focus. At a time like this where millions in Pakistan are suffering I feel it was wrong of the author to pick this moment to bash Pakistani people and society. Yes, we maybe a "society underpinned by brutal violence" - which society isn't? Most countries have a bloody history. But we are also a generous empathetic society that rises to the occasion to help those in need or speak up against injustices. Everyone reads the news we all know what goes on and while I agree these incidents should be talked about and brought to the forefront so justice can be served there is also a need a for us to think about how we can better address the underlying drivers of these issues. But let stop with the Pakistan bashing, with lives of millions at stake we need to be showing the more positive sides of Pakistan to the external world that is soo reluctant to come to our help. Lets be smart for once and wash our dirty laundry at home, lets think of the common good- which is to ensure our fellow citizens don't have to suffer for longer than they already have. Lets do all we can to get the world to help us because clearly its not something we can deal with ourselves.

Mian Reza | 14 years ago | Reply Bravo once more! Very clear, very loud (by the way there was no ambiguity in the previous article either and in that light, one may question the need for the sequel. In any case, we (Pakistanis) need to recognize our faults and step up to correct them if we wish to maintain our pride in PAKISTAN. Sometimes, it may take us several attempts to resolve something but we must carry on with our work. However, I am a bit concerned as I skim through the reader's comments. There is no shortage of for and against opinions as one could imagine. However, it is depressing to see that overall we live in a very intolerant society where we have to get personal (and definitive) in our stance for or against an issue, and once we have drawn the lines there is nothing that can convince us other wise :-( PS. despite my overall appreciation for your views, expressed through your articles, I humbly think the last paragraph was better left unsaid. Because, it is changing the course of discussion and we need to focus back on the basic issue of tolerance, reason, sense and sensibility in our society (or the lack of it). Thank you.

Rahil | 14 years ago | Reply The article, and the discussion, is far from "pointless". Well done George for an excellent follow up. Frankly, I was disgusted by the comments being posted on Facebook by various "Designer Patriots" in response to your original article. It seems the lynch mob exists not only in Sialkot or with the "liberals"; anyone who defended your view or requested that the article be read with an open mind was jumped upon. Frankly, you have more right to refer to yourself as "Pakistani" than most of these other Pakistanis. Appalling to refer to you as anything other than a Pakistani, speaking from a Pakistani's perspective; evidently you wrote what you did because you sincerely care. It's very easy to spit blood and make negative comments against what you wrote simply to be seen as a "patriot" (designer or otherwise), and then go off and party the night away. Far more difficult to accept the truth and get off one's backside to do something about it. Keep it up!

Qirat | 14 years ago | Reply 'Mulla ka Pakistan' is the evil infecting us. We need a massive dose of true Islam, which is inherently peaceful and logical religion to counter the threat. True Islam's prerequisite is separation of state and religion.

fatima not-a-slavish-colonial-subject | 14 years ago | Reply I can't shake the feeling, Fulton, that you think we should be grateful you live amongst us. A bit more honesty might make you slightly more palatable. And do refrain from critiquing a film industry you don't understand and which comes from a social context that you also don't understand, in spite of being white and doing us the favour of living here.

D. | 14 years ago | Reply Agreed with you the first time, agree with you now! You don't owe anybody an explanation. Pakistanis just need a scapegoat. Anybody who is slightly different from themselves(religion, sect, nationality, class) gets to be it.

Taza Paka | 14 years ago | Reply You are now officially 'Pakistan ka George' :)

Babar | 14 years ago | Reply @Sehr Zaidi: Brutal murder of Muslims by Sikh and Hindu mobs on the other side and that of Sikhs and Hindus by Muslims mobs at this side is a well known and well documented fact. What explanation do you need on it? Partition of subcontinent is one of the worst example of lynching that the world has seen.

sam | 14 years ago | Reply brilliant piece once again.. and i absolutely agree 100 percent.. unless we don't identify our problems we are no where near to solve it.. and as far as being pakistani is concerned, well since i question the many things in wrong with our state i myself am termed as a non-pakistani by many people even though i was born here and lived my whole life here.. its just the mechanism of certain people to blame others to hide our own fault so no one can judge who is a better pakistani than other !

Haroon Riaz | 14 years ago | Reply Ha ha. If only you had attached Part II with the Part I,people would not have made all the fuss. You were clearly misunderstood. But still, Sialkot was SHOCKING, and your article made it look even more shocking to a lot of people. ( So kind of did the job well that you intended for). By the way, the makers of Maula Jatt bear no responsibility to educate the society, nor any other filmmaker for that matter, and this applies to anywhere in the world. People need to educate themselves and the government needs to take some practical steps in this regard. Education against violence is what is necessary for putting an end to the wide acceptance of violence and the so-called vigilante justice.

IBN-E-SAIF | 14 years ago | Reply Dear George Fulton! I have gone through your article and I was not interested to comments on the comments of others and I appreciate that you have in your second part of the article

"Finally, some people accused me of racism for my last piece. Despite having become a Pakistani, married a Pakistani, had a son who is a Pakistani, lived in and moved to Pakistan, it seems I am not allowed to comment on Pakistan. Now, pray tell, who is the racist?"

and particularly the last para made me to pen down few lines. You are well educated person and I appreciate that you own Pakistan like me and if you go to the history of the nations you will come across such incidences you yourself and others has pointed out. If you go through the book of Dr. Akbar S. Ahmed who is a great sociologist and had been a political agent of Waziristan and civil servant at Balochistan and have made a film on Jinnah have written so many books like "Miz" preface written by Dr. Akbar S. Ahmed. "Pieces of Green and "Pakistani Mu'ashra" (translated from English "Pakistan the social sciences perspective") and a book written by the then chief minister of Punjab Mr. Hanif Ramay "Punjab ka Muqadma", "Punjab Castes" by Sir Denzil Ibbetson will make you able to understand Pakistani society. Transformation do occur in society and this is a very huge subject and it is the duty of the sociologist and anthropologist to give final verdict on such issues. Any how you yourself has ask for the right to comment and you have the right to do so in our Pakistan.

Facebookia | 14 years ago | Reply George we only had issues with you writing about PARTITION as brutal and almost saying that creation of Pakistan was a result of brutality by a brutal nation... the rest what you've said is CORRECT.... !!

Rashid Khan Orakzai | 14 years ago | Reply Keep walking George. You need no rebuttals or appologies to issue. You have shown us the mirror and we hate to see our ugliness. We must also not take Our Teams match fixing very seriously. After all its an individual's act. What else represents us? We are ever barking dogs when it comes to cursing politicians forgetting that sample represents the lot. How come that a corrupt majority is not ruled by corrupt rulers? Open your eyes my country men and women. We have yet to touch the bottom. We are not prepared to at least accept our faults. Like teenagers we blame West, US, Zionists and Raw for our miseries. The world is laughing at you. Confound our Minds. God must be repenting to have created a nation so stupidly emotionall and reactionery.

Atiq Rehman | 14 years ago | Reply most people who question george's nationality would cut a pinky finger to take a brittish passport, or already have taken one. he's more nationalistic than most of us and way more nationalistic than all our leaders combined.

Rakesh | 14 years ago | Reply Okay now you are crisp! I see your point. Let's talk about fixing it? How do you minimize the latent violence? Is there a systematic method that we could adopt to help there? How can the media genuinely help, as your article does by essentially as you put it 'acknowledging' the presence of the problem.

Lynette Dias-Gouveia | 14 years ago | Reply @Vish I keep saying it!! I agree with you 100% The country needs a revolution!! I have been saying that for years but people laugh at me.. and I really don't understand why?

Ahmad | 14 years ago | Reply Ya man. We're racist too.

Eeman | 14 years ago | Reply I'm going to grab some popcorn and see the interesting match going on between right-wing and left-wings.

shahbaz butt | 14 years ago | Reply no one have right to kill anyone on basis of religion or any other reason. this is the judiciary's duty to make justice but we need to analyse that why our people act like a barbaric.this is completely breakdown of law enforcement agencies and slow judiciary system. so we should rebuild ourselves and our society with peace

Mansoor Khalid | 14 years ago | Reply Very well articulated. Indeed the hate mongers must be stopped and this is where the ‘code of ethics’ for media comes in. had it been in place than it would not allow Mr. XYZ to advocate death for non-Muslims on TV.

Vish | 14 years ago | Reply When I was passing through this article comments, I surprised to see more than 75% of people are in agree with author, as being an Indian I didn't expect the like minded people upto this much percentage!, but why you people are silient gone are those days of ZIA with martial Law now I found people who got exposed to real education and institutes are started to think positivily good sign for pakistan but even still large portion of pakistan are under the grip of radicals, people please think and educate them, education is not onething through which you can read and write but education is one which enable you to think before you act, this is the type of change needs in our both country, how positively your country man takesup this job to clean the system, you all know democracy is the right tool to flush out these criminals and bigots. All you pakistanis and we Indians are from the similar race, think similar only difference is religion, keep religion aside, this is the only eliment kept us thinking radically against each other. How can we betry ourself in denial mode for so long, truth might be bitter but accepting truth results in sweetness. so like minded people start thinking take your country in right direction before some evil elements dump it.

Nouman | 14 years ago | Reply Hi George .. For me, you are a Pakistani and I liked your article.

Murtaza | 14 years ago | Reply Dear Readers, George o George, i would like to clarify something for the readers. You are not Pakistani. we appreciate your love for this country and all the positive things you do in carrying a healthy image for the people of this nation. Shedding light on our cultural or social actions should not be one of them. Only cause you have a pakistani passport or nationality does not qualify you for analysing, comparing or contrasting what happens in pakistan. You can thank your Native fore fathers, the color of your skin and the genorosity of the pakistani people for you to be able to become a part of our country... that courtesy, sadly , is not extended to any of us living in this country. Barbaric are trade sanctions and embargoes, failed resolutions, puppet regimes, countries forced to do things to their people at the command of others. the people responsible for all of this are people from your native countries. The hatred, steaming extremism, lack of open minded views in islam are all stemming from your part of the woods. we are, sadly, the foot soldiers for the barbarism of the world.. the donkeys of the world... running from contract to contract because citizens of the world view us as the lowest of the low. forget about the lack of confidence we have in our social institutions, we lack confidence in the world. we lack confidence in you and many like you who pose to be morally higher than we are. you are no one to even understand what it is to be pakistani, to be taxed and never be represented. to be succesful and still treated like a third grade citizen anywhere in the world. asses your barbarism and that of your native country rather than trying to analysing ours. you did point out all the bad things that happen in Pakistan. a journalists role to report the truth and the people have a right to know. you in the media are the ones who decide what gets played and seen and what doesnt. go out and find all the good things that happen in pakistan.. stories of love, compasion, charity, hard work, innovation, progress, justice, rule of law, governance. i feel you will fail miserably in such a task regards heartbroken and exhausted karachite

Hassan | 14 years ago | Reply Todays news is pathatetic as well and describes this nations emotions and acts that how wild it can be on even a loan of Rs. 30/- it can take lives of four persons....

salutations | 14 years ago | Reply George - thank you for posting part 2 of your article. But, I really don't think you need to explain your stand. You were not offending the pakistani nation by the things you said initially. I think all pakistanis should know by now exactly what is happening in the country and they need to relieve all the oppression and intolerance in the country. Seriously, please do not feel like you have to defend your article part 1. You did a great job writing it and defending your point. Pakistanis around the world are fully aware of what is going on in the country and a revolution of some sort needs to come from within. Enough with the brutals attacks and killings and the murders of ANYONE. This is not the pakistan that was built for the purpose of muslims. This is not the Pakistan of Jinnah. Thank you also for talking about the Ahmadi reality. I say, reality because unfortunately it is one, when Ahmadis get murdered, there is no uproar like there was for the Sialkoti brothers. Its a sad fact but true. Ahmadis themselves did not riot or cause a fuss even though so many brothers died in Lahore on May 28th. Pakistan needs to learn and tolerate one another before they can truly talk peace. Where is the brotherhood here? Where is the every man will defend each other here? This country has become a joke. For those of us living in the west, we are becoming day by day ashamed of what the world thinks of us. This is NOT that pakistani I know anyone wants to associate with. Thank you again for your bold articles. Both were real and bold.

Sehr Zaidi | 14 years ago | Reply George, what about your comments regarding partition and bloodlust. How come you have totally sidestepped that racist extrapolation and dont mention at all in your latest shallow explanation. I have read your first piece and this one and you totally avoid explaining your position on partition. Time to write 'Dont Act Surprised-III' , I say.

Sabir Arif | 14 years ago | Reply here is another example in zia days karachi a woman put her baby outside the mosque and when people came out they saw it brought the attention of the molvi sahib he declared it as an illegitmate child and the namazis killed it by kicking the infant. nobody ever raised his/her voice against it so what about sialkot incident. face the truth my fellow pakistanis.

ArifQ | 14 years ago | Reply I agree with one of the posts, George you were right from the beginning, there was no need to write an explanation, having read the response I am please you did so. Dont let the designer patriots get to you, they remind me of the people sitting at Fox News network, smart, popular, well dressed, educated but self righteous and wrong. You and your family will always be Pakistanis, thanks.

Saad Durrani | 14 years ago | Reply @RabiaKhan Thats redemption. Its better that you read this paper online than buy it.

ahk | 14 years ago | Reply Now don't be surprised by "Match Fixing" scandal. Our players are, after all Pakistanis and part of society. If you fill 99 rotten tomatoes in bag with one good tomatoe, what is the probability of picking a good one?

M. Salim | 14 years ago | Reply for a nation suffering from amnesia, we should not forget the 8 employees who were burnt alive in KFC Gulshan Karachi by misguided religious fanatics and the staff of a textile unit in Korangi Creek Karachi who were clubbed to death by a striking labor force, and, and,

Saad Durrani | 14 years ago | Reply This article is communicating with me, unlike the last one which was just a rant, an outburst. The one wrote before this was like tantrum which no one likes to hear. This one is like 'good parenting'. Though, it still has a pinch to it but its better, much better.

Sabir Arif | 14 years ago | Reply Dear George, i am a student but a little inclined towards plitics and human rights. brother, your column is a masterpiece you analysed this problem which has destroyed our societies. you mentioned just a few examples. i am a witness of more cruel exampless for instance you can look at the Punjab Police's encounter in which they kill the so called criminals and then dead bodies are put on donkey carts and are rotated around the city and people threw rose petals at brave police officers. and what if chief minister of punjab is notorious for such quick justice system as he has engineered hundreds of fake encounter himself. we are away from the pakistan that quide has promised us,a moderate, multicultural and just society. you can see that pakistan's first foreign minister was a ahmedi,lood at other examples too. last thing the chief justice takes the sou moto he discriminate hindus by saying that they are helping the suicide bomber. Punjab Oqaf department last few month ago published the banner on which it was written that ahmedies are kaafir and wajabulqatal. god bless you for showing them their true face sabir arif

Lynette Dias-Gouveia | 14 years ago | Reply I would like to add.. good article!!

Lynette Dias-Gouveia | 14 years ago | Reply I can perfectly understand what you mean.. I remember when I was about 14 or 15 there was an incident where an iron rod was shoved into a woman's privates.. It was such a distressing story that I had nightmares for weeks.. This incident took place some 20 years ago in Pakistan (if I remember correctly). So horrifying.. so brutal.. People have a short lived memory..

Rabia Khan | 14 years ago | Reply I can't believe this paper or news whatever it may be has let you publish half of what you have already written before, and the rest seems a very poor attempt at an apology? who proof reads this stuff? I am appalled at the level of carelessness. Is this how you would write in UK? I am certain they will refuse you rights to freelance and prepare any journalism, I mean could you be any more biased and pointless?

Sadaf | 14 years ago | Reply You said "Films like Saw and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre are horrors " you defend you films and we cant defent our country? Ok these movies may be horror and not promote killing culture what about Genocide your worst culture never seen in the world.if we are designer patriots so history tells us that you people are Genocide Read comments sanjithmenon in your previous post " am from India, these things happen here also. Its bad its wrong and all that. We had a jilted lover who threw acid on his lovers face. the girl died. the police caught the boy, and took him for a ride. Killed him, right there on the road. his body was brought in a tractor to the city, and my you should have seen the women folk on the road baying for blood. Human rights groups came in, and asked who gave the police permission, it was none other than the chief minister of the state. the boys parents never accepted the body, and the municipality buried him. So what should the police have done? left him to the justice system who would have taken 9 years to bring justice?....." These things happend in all over the world and double in your society

Anas N Butt | 14 years ago | Reply george, when the things hits the fan you will be out of here back to london so i don't think you're as pakistani as the rest of us. you got a passport from shaukat aziz who isn't a pakistani himself according to his travel document!

Muhammad Ilyas | 14 years ago | Reply You did not have to write this post. There was nothing unclear in your previous post. We have to accept what is truth but it takes some serious efforts. 'designer patriots' (I like this term)

Imran Khan | 14 years ago | Reply Excellent response George! you are more Pakistani than those who have (sic)ed your claim to be a Pakistani. Their accented urdu and hijab less head is also (sic)ed by many when they themselves claim to be Pakistani Muslim Women.

IZ | 14 years ago | Reply I guess George missed my comment to his last column in the flood of other comments. George, one does not have to feel racist or even "be" a racist in order to say racist things. On your previous article I commented on this particular line (one of several like it): “This has always been an ugly reality of Pakistan and always will be” Careful George, you’re slipping into racisim. While your general sentiment about the deep-rooted pathology in Pakistani culture may be on the money, please avoid essentialising. By saying that Pakistanis (you did imply all of them) are all essentially violent and barbaric and that this is an immutable part of their character, you were saying something is naturally an integral part of all of them. That is a racist statement. A non-racist statement would be to say "Violence has become an integral part of our culture and we need to root this out" or something of that sort. By pointing out the inherent racisim of some of your statements, I'm not accusing you of being anti-Pakistani and I'm not joining the baying chorus of uber-nationalists trying to drown out your views - I am actually saying that you will not be able to address the problem if you present it as an essential and integral part of Pakistan and the Pakistani people for ever and ever.

Fais | 14 years ago | Reply You may think I'm out off line, but read.. I could not gather courage to watch the video of the poor kids of Sialkot, but after reading some articles I came to know about the brutality they suffered on that I remembered my DOG, who's name was Chikkie a very playful and loving dog but somehow it got the habit of killing cats, later became a psycho and started enjoying the killing so much that it used to break each and every bone of the cats and than kill them, surprisingly he never did this in front of us at anytime, it became psycho but had some shame left which made it do all this in dark night where there was no one to see what it was doing. We Pakistanis have become psychos for sure, but the irony is that we have lost the sense of shame as well, we were never a nation but now we are not even human being. We call ourselves Muslims but kill in the name of religion and honor, the problem is we don’t have the Islamic as well as the worldly knowledge, we don’t try to find the facts but act abruptly on rumors, we’ve become so narrow minded that we are not ready to give space to anyone, you’re talking about Ahmedis, Christians and Hindus, we call kafir to each other i.e. Sunnis, Wahabis, Deobandis etc. So what have we become? George is showing us the mirror of our society, which is true, but what are We doing to correct it, praising George won’t correct our society, we have to stand up and start performing our responsibilities. I would like all to come up with good ideas/corrective measures to improve our society, remember it’s not an easy task, changing habits is the most difficult thing to do but than it’s not impossible. “If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, than each of us will have two ideas” George Bernard Shaw The first thing to start with is praying daily to Allah, to bring all Pakistanis to the right path and give us a leader who should be sincere to Pakistan, brave enough to stand in front of all odds, a Leader who could make this mob of people a true Nation, make Pakistan a true Islamic state where all could live together in harmony and tolerance. Ameen! Let us join hands and try bringing Reforms. “The best reformers the world has ever seen are those who commence on themselves” George Bernard Shaw Best regards!

vijay | 14 years ago | Reply i started reading the article as usual. what stunned me was there are 19 comments to this article and all of them agree with what is said in the article.this thing instantly decreased my hatred for your country. i never thought there can be people in pakistan who can agree with the kind of things george has said. you people should find out more people like you and let the world know about your thoughts. this can change the image of your country . it is your duty.

Jumma Gul khan | 14 years ago | Reply George, Mehreen was trying to ride the wave of popularity. From her writing style she seemed closely alinged to the animosity of the 'westtoixated' (sic) perspectives of a certain khan. This is rich coming from a woman who has enjoyed the best of western civilizations in terms of education and culture. Secondly, i refuse to be as kind as you in giving her the benefit of the doubt. She very well understood that she was twisting your words, but that was the only way she could 'sell' her self denial to her readership. Finally, Mehreen might have gone to the right schools, but so did George Bush, where did he lead the US? Thank God we have intellectual honesty like yours.

Sanwal Yasin | 14 years ago | Reply I have read both the "Don't act surprised" articles and I think that Mr. Fulton has done his duty to Pakistan by showing this nation a mirror. By talking about Maula Jatt, Amir Liaquat and our applauding of medieval Arabian justice he has spoken the truth, which can only benefit our country.

Mohammed Abbasi | 14 years ago | Reply Superb article George :) And thank you for the term 'designer patriots'.... I am sharing this

hashrogers | 14 years ago | Reply I do agree with George. Nicely written.

Amima | 14 years ago | Reply Spot on George! More power to you for being an honest voice. @Syed Nadir El Edroos - it was not George who turned it into he said-she said affair. Also, it is not a negative or new trend to have rebuttals and explainations...in research and academia, you see this all the time that one author is responding to others comments. It is not about moving on, it is an indicator of mature debate. Though there was nothing mature about Mehreen Aziz Khan's column nor the personal attacks she leveled against George.

asma riaz | 14 years ago | Reply The fact that you commented with vigour on the illnesses of Pakistan, my beloved country, shows that you care about this country. There is nothing wrong about the people but those to blame are ALL THOSE IN WHOSE HANDS WERE THE REIGNS OF THIS PIECE OF LAND. They had the power to set things right. They had the power to control the poor, innocent and illiterate population of Pakistan to mould them towards education, towards patriotism, towards true Islam, towards honesty, love of brotherhood and what not! They failed and have brought tears to my eyes. They were and are SELFISH. As far as those calling you racist are concerned, I ask them to please think hard and tell me, is there no racism in Pakistan? Shia-Sunni; Muhajir-Sindhi-Punjabi-Baluchi; the favours done to one another in the Baradari system(Arain,Maliks,Chaudahrys...)and leave that alone what do you think about the feudal system and the feudalist, the most obnoxious racist community!!!

Karim | 14 years ago | Reply Truth is bitter. Well done George!. I wish more could have the moral courage to call a spade a spade

M Mustafa | 14 years ago | Reply The brutalities against Shias, Hindus and Ahmadis continue unabated. Intolerance preached by narrow-minded clerics have destroyed the very fabric of our society. Un-Islamic views such as stoning to death for adultery or apostasy have been openly preached to masses. These punishment are not mentioned in the Quran and been borrowed fron the Torah. Tolerance of diverse doctrinal views is very Islamic.

Saira | 14 years ago | Reply Hello dear George! am just not concerned if you're Pakistani or a Britain or an American or someone else. Yes, i accept we are not good as a nation as we should be as Muslims. But still, can u ever defend what went on in America after 9/11. Can u ever defend what's still going on with Dr Afia Siddiqui? Yeah, we accept we are very bad as a nation. But at least we have no Guantanamo Bay here in Pakistan. Should we start taking all Americans equally brutal and mercy less as George Bush. We accept all the bad aspects of our society and are standing against them but don't want any Britain to come and tell us about all these things. Are we more racist than Britain or Hindu or Americans? What if Amir Liaqat is calling Ahmadis as wajib-ul-qatal, are we all going out with sticks and rifles in hands, to kill them. Nops, we will never. And yeps, Pakistan was created with lots of blood shed. And Indians, Pakistanis and Britain were equally involved in that blood shed, what to say about Holocaust.

tahira | 14 years ago | Reply Thank you for the reality slap George.... God knows we need it badly. Amazing work as always!

ahmed | 14 years ago | Reply I was against your first article, but i was clearly the minority. Just a reality check, yours and Fasi Zaka's article were selling like hot cakes. Here's an interesting read: http://amaurosis-fugax.blogspot.com/2010/08/in-defense-of-sialkot-mob.html Gross generalizations are being made, comparisons are being made with Karo Kari, Ahmadis, Jihadis etc which are entirely different issues.

Absar | 14 years ago | Reply

Why do we instinctively feel the need to deflect criticism of our failings by looking at other’s failings?

We lack this thing badly. We hide our failures just to feel more patriotic. Welcome to Pakistan, George. But I am sure you would have learnt enough tolerance in all these years in Pakistan. Keep writing! PS: A mantra of one of my friend "Ye woh qoum hai jo apney aap ko dhoka deti hai or us key leye apney aap se hi jhoot bolti hai"

Hasan | 14 years ago | Reply Oh come on people! George is spot on. He isn't asking us to become self-haters. Don’t deceive yourselves. You know what’s not to be taken literally. Its awareness and tough love what he’s giving us. The truth is hard to digest. I am a Pakistani by birth and lived in that country for 20 years, so let me give you my opinion. We are breeding generations and generations of confused children. Each of us walks around every day in total inner conflict. We are so desensitized to it that we hardly even notice it. Who are we really? What's Islamic and what's Un-Islamic? 'Most' of us live everyday of our lives in total confusion and contradiction. We are not clear about our beliefs and our values. Our preachers tell us to do things which are unreasonable in today's times and unless you are a highly evolved spiritual creature, beyond an average man's immediate abilities to do. Our whole society is crumbling not because of corrupt politicians. They are surely a symptom, but they are not themselves the system. We should be thankful to them actually, they step up and take the blame so we can sleep peacefully at night, not taking responsibility for our own ignorance. After all, what can 180 million people do, what can we all do as individuals, unless each of us has a billion dollars, I can’t really go out and make this country better! I can’t give my time to teaching somebody something or just smiling at someone. Oh no, that would be not cool.

Dr Qaisar Rashid | 14 years ago | Reply Yes I am sure you have watched Maula Jatt. Pertaining to the last para: Have you now become Pakistan Ka George?

Jamal Asfandyar | 14 years ago | Reply This is a silly attempt by George to gloss over his rather pretentious previous article. I think he needs to quit writing OpEds as they require nuance and skill - which sadly George does not possess. The attempts by some on this comments board to support his drivel are understandable given the nutty liberal mob in Pakistan.

Tilsim | 14 years ago | Reply George we support you. You are a true Pakistani!

Anonymous | 14 years ago | Reply What were we talking about just yet? If you're trying to remember, it was the barbarity of the violence that has shaken us all. I read that in order to treat a person of severe alcoholism, or any type of drug addiction, the victim must 'realize that he/she has a problem. Quite understandable if you ask me. But then I realized that there is someone worse than an addict...who knows that he/she has the problem, accepts it but does not do anything about it. We are all such addicts here... George, you are just adding it to the list...and everyone else, for God's sakes stop talking.

Saleem H. Ali | 14 years ago | Reply The problem with your article and a few others was one of broad generalization. Societies cannot be collectively labeled as "brutal" or "brutalized" -- whether British or Pakistani or Rwandan -- such statements sow the seeds of prejudice even if that is not your intent. If you had presented your argument with some nuance and moderation the reaction would not have been such. Expatriates will always need to contend with the feeling of being labeled "the other," so long as nationalism exists around dominant demographics. Rest assured Pakistanis living abroad need to contend with similar sentiments of exclusion all too often as well.

Aisha/ Eyesha | 14 years ago | Reply This article is no doubt a piece of clarification of the former one. The first part had many doubts in it but fortunately, this has convinced me. I was among the one who disagreed with you since it seemed you were pointing out wrong incidents. And racism, it is seen everywhere in the world. And one would interpret the article the same way many of the individuals did. Kindly do not interpret the comments in the name of racism. If you are a true Paki, you need not to give any explanations. Your work would speak of this itself. Peace Out

Khurram Bukhari (Rotterdam) | 14 years ago | Reply George! The golden words of Dante(Italian philosopher of the 12th century) perfectly narrate the state of affairs in Pakistan. His landmark and legendary words must speak for our society : "The hottest place in the hell lies for those who in times of moral crisis maintain their neutrality".

Khurram Bukhari (Rotterdam) | 14 years ago | Reply Keep up the good work George as your previous column tried to point out the menace of intolerance and violence that has engulfed the whole Pakistani society in the past 20 years. In my eyes, you are not only a reformist but also a pacifist who rather wants to solve the problem by awaking conscious of our people instead of lamenting, cursing and asking them to take the law in their own hand like the vigilante hero " Maula Jutt" to purge our sick society from all social evils. Those who consider you racist do not have the guts to look in to the mirror of self-conscious to denounce and condemn extreme violence in the Pakistani society. They just want to remain in the state of denial and blame every single incident as part of "Big western or Jewish conspiracy". We are proud of you as a true patriot and son of Pakistan.

Sharjeel Jawaid | 14 years ago | Reply Thanks George for your frank talk, but we have a lot of growing ahead us.

Sidrat | 14 years ago | Reply That we react to reactions to reactions to reactions say about us as a society? In any case, I am glad you stood up for yourself. I vehemently disagreed with those who called you racist, or accused you of having an Orientalist attitude. You're a better Pakistani than most of use who've lived here all our lives. Also, I do believe that Op-eds aren't probably your thing. A piece of writing needs to be more nuanced and should leave little room for the kind of debate that your original piece spurred. Come back on TV. We loved your show with Kiran. The morning shows now are so obnoxious.

Anum | 14 years ago | Reply I'm glad you wrote this rebuttal because it clarifies a lot of things that were misinterpreted in your previous article. this one seems much cooler and rational while the former, while correct in pointing out a few facts, seemed like an emotional banter.

Shabbir | 14 years ago | Reply i agree but we are used to listening our praises and we will love u if u keep on saying that Pakistanis are the best people in the whole world and blah blah blah but i am sorry we are afraid to accept the reality, we are a nation living in denial and believe in fairy tales but i would request you to study the version of no-Ahmadis (Muslims) as well, specially them people who believe in not killing them or hurting them by any mean but disgree with them.........

abdul | 14 years ago | Reply george, please you owns nobody any explanations,your article was such a good reality of pakistans society.you hit the nail in the head in that your article,if we have few people like you in pakistan that speaks the truth am sure our society will change.keep on,BRAVO.please dnt stop to call a spade a spade always,am sure they will always critize you. you spoke the truth so our people(pakistani)hates truth,truth is unacceptable in pakistan society.they want you to support evil and wickedness but you refused, so they started to critizes you,please dnt give in,continue with your good work.iknow that they will call you all types of names,but never mind,they will all pay with their own blood one day unless they repeant from evils and pursue peace and love.our people here carrys God in their lip but their heart is full of evil plans,wicked act,lies and hatred.they always want to deffend their evil deeds by comparing other country without knowing that other country are far better than us,they got great human right in other country,but here we have nothing like that.but they never compare any good thing they saw in other country or wish our country better.but they are always growing in evil each day.enough we need a change our blood is too dirty to call human beings.they prayed 5times in a day but always planning evil and doing evil each second.destroying God handwork.we need a change of heart here,our youth is even the worst always ready to encourage evils by smiling at any evil.99percent of our parents dont teach us any good but busy teaching us how to hate our neighbours,other religions,foreigners.they never teach us how to forgive others but always revenge.am sick and tired off defending our evils and wicke lifes here

Hamza Malik | 14 years ago | Reply George you are 100%, spot on, absolutely correct. You are a Pakistani and all those playing the race card ought to be ashamed of themselves. You have a right to comment on Pakistan's culture as much as we all have it. And yes, we have a tendency of deflecting criticism by finding solace in others' shortcomings and failings. But the point remains, if they want to be donkey-kong, does that make our mess go away? What we're witnessing here, people who disagree with you, is called denial. We are all in denial and we need someone to show us how pathetic we are.

Tazeen | 14 years ago | Reply George Fulton, I am indebted to you for coining the word "designer patriots." How apt.

Nabeel | 14 years ago | Reply A good response, but I think this should be enough. Major props for admitting that you could have been more tactful, could have cut down on the generalization. And those who called you racist were obviously wrong - ad hominem attacks often mean that the person being attacked is right.

Usman | 14 years ago | Reply George, I was one of those who criticized your earlier article. I must say this is a much better article and I can see your point clearly now. Thanks for writing this piece and your clarification.

Sameera | 14 years ago | Reply I whole-heartedly agree with the last paragraph; you're as much a Pakistani as any of us George and while I might disagree with some of your views you're more than entitled to have them. Can we please be a little more mature though and leave this at that; I'd love to see some intelligent writing and scum bashing about the match-fixing fiasco.

Mushtaq | 14 years ago | Reply I completely agree with George's assessment of the current state of affairs in pakistan. And he is right to suggest that in order to solve a problem you need to acknowledge it first.

rehan | 14 years ago | Reply @El Edroos.Well said.Well,welcome to Pakistan,George.Let us accept this too..racism exists in all humans..in various degrees,but it does.But George,you will never feel the true agony(inspite of being a Pakistani)of how it feels like being called a 'Paki'back in England.So I guess being a Gora Paki means having an edge...kya samjhe?

LC | 14 years ago | Reply "Before we can improve a society, we need to acknowledge we have a problem". Erm. like u said, this lynching has not been the first act of despicable violence.... Only a fool will not have acknowledged that we have a problem till now. I think you're covering up for your lack of imagination re: coming up with a solution. 'The kneejerk reaction from some designer patriots to my last piece surprised me. I certainly do not believe – as some people have claimed – that all 170 million Pakistanis are barbaric'. knee-jerk? re-read your article, i appreciate you saying u clumsily elaborated pakistans probs but youre still being too kind on yourself.your thoughts in 'dont act surprised' were definitely not carefully deliberated over... they were extreme and mindless generalizations. its not about your piece not being a comparative analysis,,, people were referring to other countries/ cultures to point out the fallacies in your argument. i have to agree with you on the who is racist point. its pathetic how people pointed to your skin colour to question your pakistaniat. disgusting. Its dangerous to self-deprecate, however, to the extent that you did. Pieces like yours can dangerously and wrongly promote low self esteem amongst an entire populace (er, your readership) and what good will that do? you have to be more careful to invite self-reflection in a constructive manner....

Talha | 14 years ago | Reply George, I agree with you whole-heartedly, the problem with telling the truth is that most people cannot digest it. It was surely the case with what you told us as a good Pakistani. You should continue to tell things as they are and I hope to see more people follow in your footsteps.

Sakina | 14 years ago | Reply Wow George! nice article very well witten. the last paragraphs almost bought tears to my eyes :) Thanks for the share...

Amaar | 14 years ago | Reply Good article. I agree with George. He is just as much a Pakistani as any of us and better than these pseudo-intellectuals..

Hashim Nauman | 14 years ago | Reply This was a brilliant read, absolutely brilliant and I agree fully to what you have to say sir.

Syed Nadir El-Edroos | 14 years ago | Reply This is all getting a bit pointless now. Will we have a rebuttal for the rebuttal? I am abit surprised that you have even written an explanation rather than moving on. By doing so this debate over the Sialkot episode is getting highly personalised, between yourself and Fasi Zaka vs. other commentators who have taken offence with your writing. This is all turning into a he said, she said.

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