The US-Pakistan relationship may be at a nadir, but there’s plenty of room for it to hit rock bottom.
A media report from Washington suggests that the Obama administration may be considering a plan to carry out a secret joint operation with Afghan forces against the Haqqani network inside Pakistani territory.
US officials are so frustrated with Pakistan’s failure to stop militant groups from attacking Americans in Afghanistan that they have considered launching raids into Pakistan to hunt them down, officials told The Associated Press.
But the idea, which US officials say comes up every couple of months, has been consistently rejected because the White House believes the chance of successfully rooting out the Haqqani network would not be worth the intense diplomatic blowback from Pakistan that inevitably would ensue.
The latest round of discussions came after the June 1 car bombing of Forward Operating Base Salerno in eastern Afghanistan, according to three current and two former US officials who were briefed on the discussions. The officials told the AP that recent discussions have included Gen John Allen, the senior US commander in Afghanistan, as well as top CIA and special operations officials.
Officials say options that have been prepared for President Barack Obama’s review included raids that could be carried out by US special operations forces together with Afghan commandos, ranging from air assaults that drop raiders deep inside the tribal areas to hit top leaders to shorter dashes only a few miles into Pakistan territory.
Allen’s spokesman, Navy Cmdr Brook DeWalt, said Allen “has not and does not intend to push for a cross-border operation.”
Meanwhile, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Moazzam Ali Khan rejected the assertion, saying Pakistan never allowed any ‘terrorist sanctuary on its soil,’ and that the country will not permit foreign forces to conduct any operation inside the country.
Panetta rules out apology
As the deadlock between Pakistan and the US over reopening of Nato supply routes lingers on, Defence Secretary Leon Panetta all but ruled out an apology for Pakistan.
Panetta, in an interview with Reuters on Thursday, suggested that past expressions of regret and condolences were enough. Asked whether he would oppose any further apology, Panetta said: “We’ve made clear what our position is, and I think it’s time to move on. If we keep going back to the past … we’ll never get anywhere,” he said.
Harassing diplomats
However, the apology is not the only stumbling bloc – the latest back-to-back statements by senior US officials against Pakistan may also complicate the matter, a Pakistani official said.
The State Department on Friday said that US diplomats working in Pakistan face increasing harassment allegedly by the country’s security agencies.
The foreign ministry, in a statement, rejected allegations of harassment of US diplomats. “All foreign diplomats in Pakistan … are extended full courtesies and privileges in accordance with the Vienna Conventions … the same are also extended to duly accredited US diplomats and consular representatives in Pakistan,” the statement said.
Backdoor negotiations
Meanwhile, efforts to reset troubled ties between Islamabad and Washington are still on. The American embassy in Islamabad confirmed that the US Department of the Treasury’s Undersecretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence David Cohen met with Pakistani officials during the past few days.
Cohen discussed the importance of ensuring that UN-designated terrorist groups are unable to raise funds and move them through the Pakistani financial sector, US embassy spokesperson Mark Stroh said.
With additional input from Reuters.
Published In The Express Tribune, June 23rd, 2012.
COMMENTS (121)
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@Menon: My Dearest Hindustani Neighbour, please accept my heartiest compliments on being such an avid reader of PK media and for your overly keen interest in our business. Millions over millions sleep on footpath with empty stomach in Indian roads everyday. How could you ignore all that and worry about PK?. Let me tell you why! everyone knows India's greatest and only threat to existence is PK. Coming to your point; I accept Muslim unity is at its historic low at the moment but its too early to speak; you will see how dynamics will change and predictions will be lost in thin air but more importantly, PK does not depend on any muslim aid either! PK stayed poor and hungry for 60+ years for this very day. Pakistan's sovereignty is far important than economic indicators.
Indians can't even let us have a decent discussion on a Pak newspaper. Something pathological about these folks - You can gloat right now but it is going to be your turn soon.
@gp65: and what do u say about defense of NATO inside Afghanistan. Why cant they themselves watch the eastern border. Why Haqqani Network gets into Afghanistan without being observed. R they also using some stealth technology US and NATO do not possess? things r not as simple and as worse for Pakistan as they seem from your place
Rajendra Kalkhande:
Ghori and Ghaznavid were NOT Afghans - this is a big myth that has been circulating for far too long. Yes, they were born in Afghanistan, but they were born to Turko-Mongol clans who had earlier invaded Afghanistan and settled there - the story that Afghanistan was never conquered is also a myth - fire and burn tactics used by Turko-Mongols nearly eliminated Pashtun populations in a sweeping manner. Timur was another Turko-Mongol who sacked Delhi, but also sacked Baghdad, which at that time was the Islamic capital, and devastated the city so harshly that it was never able to recover to its prior state.
The term Afghan should be used to describe Pashtuns and Tajiks, and maybe the Hazara, who I believe were settled there prior to Mongol invasions and may in fact be related to nomadic Tibetan tribes.
@HSK:
India loosing Kargil must have happened in the parallel universe you inhabit. I don’t know because I don’t live there.
Attacking Pakistan turning into Muslims vs. Rest of the world will also take place in the Parallel Universe you inhabit because your assumption of all other muslim countries coming to your aid has good of chance Pigs growing wings and flying. May be it is so in the parallel universe, not on this earth.
We got friends in arabia ha ha@Riaz Khan:
@iftikhar hussain: "@alicia: When they raided Abbottabad, Pakistan was confused as to take them as friends or enemies. Now a clear order has been given to forces that they will reply back to any attack from any side."
SO when is the last time Pakistan shot a drone down after getting these clear directions. Pakistani air-force did not choose to let US navy seals pass because they though they were friends. They were unable to detect their presence and have said openly that they do not have the technology.US on the same track as USSR. First, they helped 'Mujahddin' fight the USSR. Then they replaced USSR. Now, they want to succeed over 'Mujahddin' and in doing so, they have caused irreversible damage to their economy as did USSR. You can guess what's next! Amen!
they will come and wipe out the haqqanis and then point out to some other terror group to find an excise to strike again. they will just keep on coming until we find what their real agenda is
@Menon: Just go a few year back and recall India's defeat in Kargil. if India hadn't run to US and rest of the world to beg mercy off Pakistan using foreign pressures on Pakistan to withdraw itself from Kargil, India's whole division would have starved to death. If Pakistan Army had lost allegedly 4 wars already, then what's stopping India, Nato, Israel and US in attacking Pakistan? Be assured, the day war breaks in Pakistan, the whole world would burn with it, eventually the war will turn itself to a Muslims Vs. "rest of the world" war. To top it all, the world is yet to see evidence of Haqqani's involvement in Kabul attack and their presence in Pakistan. Btw did anyone see any evidence of OBL's death lately?
Looks like Pakistanis are worried over a media report which speculates about a covert attack
Use your common sense,If US is indeed planning to launch a covert attack,What will the first thing they will do??
Yeah,you're right...They will release it to media(clap,clap)
Is that what they did for Osama Bin Laden killing???
@alicia: When they raided Abbottabad, Pakistan was confused as to take them as friends or enemies. Now a clear order has been given to forces that they will reply back to any attack from any side. Situation is different now. US is no more on 'friends' list of Pakistan. On the other hand, if NATO is incapable of stopping terrorists entry from Pakistan then they are actually facing Abbottabad like operations on almost daily basis from Pakistani soil. They have actually failed in Afghanistan and now trying to find some escape goat. For further detail, plz visit following link:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoRkjE0lWbk&feature=g-upl
@Mirza: If they couldnt do their job inside Afghanistan where they ve a foot hold then how can they do so out of it.
If they really intended to do this I do not think they would tell everyone like this. This is probably more pressure tactics. More likely they will really respond with a limited but intense air campaign. They get to kill some terrrorists, army gets to scream about sovregnity, people get to suffer from international isolation and more power cuts. Everybody important is happy.
Will Pakistan demand another apology if the USA launches a special op against the Haqqani?
A small, determined nation, Vietnam, defeated the US. Today the US is much weaker and Pakistan - hundreds of time stronger than Vietnam. Most of the world hates the US, and they will directly or indirectly come to Pakistan's side in case of any real conflict. It is time to bit the bullet in favor of defending Pakistan's strategic interests.
guyz..be sensible. ..that is a political statement ..comin out from USA ,,& USA iz also not aplogizing ,bcoz of upcomin elections,,nothing will happen ..they just want to pressurize pakistan ...they will never ever goona attack ,bcoz they r already strucked in afghan war ,and these statements were used against iran too,,but wht happened ? nothing...USA is just like a barking dog ,..nd nothing more.
@HSK:
When was the last time someone in Pakistani Army (retired or serving) and politicians have not denied something.
Isn’t it denial one of the reliable things Pakistan always does?
@HSK:
Let us not mention anything about the worlds 10 best army loosing four wars to India and 80,0000 surrendering which happens to be the largest surrender in the history of the world. You want to take on the U.S. Army.
@antony:
If you don’t know the difference between a truck loaded with explosives, human being strapped with suicide bombs, and nuclear installations, missile silos, then you haven’t a clue. Hence, engaging in a rational debate with you would be pointless.
Being that said, just imagine how many trucks and people are there compared to nuclear weapons. Imagine chemical, heat and various components emanating from nuclear material. If you know anything about science, and modern satellite technology, you would know the answer if not, last sentence of the previous paragraph applies, “would be pointless"
This is nothing but a pressure game, so that Pakistan goes for North Waziristan Operation. Pakistan has seen the consequences of supporting US, now it should try to see what happens if it does not support US.
There have already been US-Afghan raids into Pakistan before..even during Bush's time. Then there was Abbotabad. Then there was Salala.
What makes all the Pakistani internet tough guys think the response will be any different this time?
@aslam:
"well, it’s time pakistan give the four letter word back to USA."
But you are forgetting that the US can refuse to give Pakistan the SIX letter word, namely, the free DOLLAR that Pakistan needs so much for its survival.
Surely US would have to resort to trans-border raid into Pakistan if Pakistan continues like this. Still this will not be an easy decision for US at all. I believe the present state of wishful wait will continue for some time. However if and when the raids start, it will soon go into the cities,towns and bazars of Pakistan far far beyond the limits of the so-called tribal areas.
"...Foreign Ministry spokesperson Moazzam Ali Khan rejected the assertion, saying Pakistan never allowed any ‘terrorist sanctuary on its soil,’ ....."
Ya, right! Does anyone even in Pakistan really believe that? Repeating a lie a millions times will still not make it the truth.
@HSK: i wish you were a bollywood khan, not a lollywood Khan...:)
@ifti: Most of Pakistani's will do the same what shakil afridi did, its just the matter of time and opportunity ..
@farhan: your general also gave orders to shoot a drone..??? what happened..??? and china nor iran has not taken one step to stop drones trikes on your soil...
@RizwanTKhan: what would you call raid that killed osama??? what would you call constant drone strikes on your soil???
Any attempt by the United States special forces and the Afghan commandos to conduct raid into Pakistan to attack the Haqqani militants will be a disastrous venture.On one side it is not that easy to eliminate the Haqqani network and there is every likelihood of the US special forces and Afghan commandos getting entrapped in the rugged mountainous tribal areas of the Frontier province.On the other hand it will entail brazen violation of Pakistan's sovereignty and territorial integrity for which America will have to pay heavily.If America is keen in extricating itself from Afghanistan with minimum damage it needs to normalize relations with Pakistan and with the cooperation of Pakistan to sort out the issues related to Afghan problem.
It's takes me 3 to 4 times before ET posts my opinion
Pakistan is currently facing many internal and external threat. The country is heading to collapse due to lack of security and corruption on every level of lives. Peoples are killing each other randomly for small thing and innocent are also being kill. Those involved in crimes and murders will face God curse. On the other hand those who says they are soldiers of God, are also committing crimes by killing children, woman and innocent people, specially Taliban and their associates who are launching senseless suicide attack making our children orphan and woman widows making them beggars. The religious leaders are not doing anything with the society as they are just following their political agenda. l
Pakistan is not really a match for NATO/Afghan forces. Most of the Pakistan equipment is American made. It's a reasonable assumption that these equipmenta come with a kill switch which will be actuated in case of war making the equipment useless. By the way, does the AWACS require American technical support to operate?
“ I think it’s time to move on. If we keep going back to the past … we’ll never get anywhere,” RIGHT ON PANETTA, LETS START WITH 9/11 and how you shove it down our throats....
@HSK: ” I told you a very simple straight hard fact and a ground reality of what happened and is happening in Afghanistan since last 100 years. Afghans are fighting intruding enemies who are raping, murdering, bombing Afghan civilians. Afghans have never stepped in any foreign soil to intrude or attack. "
Sir, I beg to differ here. Very conveniently you have confined the history to 100 year period. We in India know how Afghans invaded us all through history and butchered thousands of innocent people. Ghaznavis, Ghoris and Abdalis who invaded India, were all Afghans. Ask any Indian and he will tell the crimes committed by those invaders. How paradoxical it is that Indians got most of land invasions from Afghanistan and still they consider Afghanistan as the most friendly country.
@HSK i was talking to my dad at home he use to work at SW i said he using drone to much in these area now these guys gonna bomb kabul and that what happened if we see patterns when they use done strikes in NW OR SW they got bombed by them in kabul and then american cries
@riaz khan dear sir i agree with u but issue is we all live outside pakistan i now most of this newspaper readers from here things look balck and white but pakistan have too many issue to itself ,i talked to my friends and i know what they feel about situation there beacuse they live there ,economy in wrecks and it will not revive until this war we fighting is over ,in this world no country is enemy to eachothar i can explain to u vietnam u remeber american bomb them for ten years and notions what jhonson say if we leave redflag will be at our door but what happen now same vietnam america is friend trading partner and also supplying help againest china ,so its all about interests nothing more ,for pakistan it does not have resources like yanks have to deal NW operation plus biggest issue is porous boder and mountaines terrain with high attitutde lets be realistic from where ur supply gonna come through SW and rest ot tribal area its is impossible to do that ,rest american have no choice to blame pakistan for theior loss shows ten years kabul is not secure what about rest of afgnistan ?with billion and half dollar aid which been promise trough us aid programe and 500 million us military aid what else u gonna get now put it into economic loss ,people dispalcement and bombing it is worth when othar side of border is nothing but empty mountains if i am leader i will not ,yanks have issue let them do covert raid but all i will say if theior team got caught or killed it will be more embrassing situation for them beacuse not everyday is sunday ,lets them wineing look at ur intersest they r complete broke and they want us to do theior dirty work which will never end rest of our generation my two cents stay away from it, rest india they have nothing to do in afgnistan the country who has to do is iran and nobody talk to them they r new american partners and allies with russian made weapons what kind of stregic allience is that i dont know when both parties use different weapons system let them pipe dream and afgnistan see after 2014 what happens so bottomline is what wrong to say apalogy? othar wise nobody gonna open GLOC for them let them crying
@Sultan Ahmed: I think Iran has border with Iraq too. Don't you think. When China came to rescue Pakistan last time? US & Israel is in middle of middle east since WW2. What could they do to them. Any other option you have that you can depend upon.
They are smart enough to realize that it is an escalation and the Afghanistanis will pay the price, aside from the US.
@Rana: Then wait for big bang. And start new pakistan from caves. You are so genius. LOL
@vasan: first comment from you making sense.
@Riaz Khan: Do u advocate that we should kill our brothers and sons as US and NATO demand so. Can u give some physical pain to ur own blood just do it after taking a strong cofee and ala bala then reply
@RizwanTKhan: heheheheheh lol nice dream buddy.
@Freeman: I would give positive comments when I see something good coming out. Congratulations for not attacking NATO troops after the OBL raid, also not officially denying him found in army base. Regards, Mirza
US needs to conduct raids and airstrikes in Tribal Areas. Pakistani govt has lost war on terror and surrendered to terrorist groups and is going to continue making excuses not to act against terrorists.
they should handle these terrorists when they enter afghanistan.if americans cannot kill them inside afghanistan then how cain pakistan kill them.quite an insanity on part of usa
@farhan: drones come every now and then. doesnt gen kayani says anything about them? Do you realy think iran or china will help you? wakeup.
@PK: I like your sense of lack of humor. Forget the incompetence of US military and Abbotabad. Look at the record of Pakistan Army. That is what counts now.
Nuclear armed state, great army with brave soldiers, brotherly relations with all middle states, good bilateral relations with china,it is a time tested friend, Iran is a Islamic state and good friend of Pakistan it is also well armed,
Pakistan want peace and security in the region.Pakistan is not a sweet water, it is hardcore,uphill task have credibility to face any kind of circumstances.
What they say, let them say,what they want to do,let them to do.no fear.
@khan: Yes, I am a very down to earth, peace loving, courageous, brave, honoured but extremely vengeful Pakhtun. I'm not a bollywood Khan. "its like motivating someone for some wrong doing…" I told you a very simple straight hard fact and a ground reality of what happened and is happening in Afghanistan since last 100 years. Afghans are fighting intruding enemies who are raping, murdering, bombing Afghan civilians. Afghans have never stepped in any foreign soil to intrude or attack. Someone should please pass "Pashtunwali" (the Pashtun code of life) to Panetta and de-brief him on what he is dealing with.
pakistan is also frustrated as to why us and nato forces dont kill miliotants when they enter afghanistan.americans,nato an afghan forces are so incompetent that terrorists make picnics at their bases and they are helpless.
@Mirza: I am looking what day your comments will be posttive. You are one of the Mindset Indian against Pakistan who whatever says is only say negative thing.
@Mahakaalchakra: Keep dreaming for destruction of Pakistan. You dream will never come true. These news are very very easy to publish but when practical time comes its not easy to apply.
@Rajendra Kalkhande: Lieutenant-General Asad Durrani, who served as director-general of the ISI from 1990–92, has rubbished claims in the media regarding Pakistan intending to use Afghan territory as "strategic depth". He also denies accusations that the Pakistani military has tried to "install a friendly government in Kabul" in order to "secure this depth". He gives the Soviet Union as an example, stating that "after the Saur Revolution, the Soviets executed an installed president every three months in pursuit of that objective" and these policies later resulted in the defeat of the Soviets in Afghanistan. He argues that the notion of Pakistan using Afghan territory for its own purposes is a "distortion of a concept or of history" and is being used to vilify Pakistan.
@Rajendra Kalkhande: Certainly yes, Pakistan is witnessing the graveyard if not in it and is fighting proxy war with US and vice-versa. This is not something new for Pakistan. PK just witnessed a supreme world power bend on it knees and breaking its back into million pieces at the very hands of these very Mujaheddin. PK is also well experienced in hearing drums of war many a times from India as well so to speak. Therefore, it's not creating much of a panic or PK is not experiencing this as something new or out of the blue.
Fortunately, PK army statistically or pragmatically is not to be confused with Iraqi, Yemni or Afghan Army. It's a top 10 ranking army of the world with a million strong force of personnel who are the only ones in the world not afraid of dying in defending its borders. Pakistanis do realize and understand that US is being too hasty in confronting PK but what's stopping them can you imagine? Especially India on the east ensuring their full support for or anything against PK, even then; why all the reluctance from US?
@menon, You are sounding exactly like Bush said post 9/11, "Fellow Americans lets roll" .. 10 years passed ,Talibans are still there with Haqqani group ,splinter group ,TTP and what not ..I am indian when I observed the past track record of America it seems that Americans cant even detect the truck loaded bombs approaching their front base ( sure they know attack is coming on any front base) and killed many US,Aghan soldiers including injuring 100 of NATO soldiers (Check google!) .. Tell me with complete military reach through air or ground in aghanistan ,americans cant protect or see it coming in the first place. Who gave you the idea that Americans can know pakistan's secret military domains when every US /NGO is treated as suspected CIA these days by pakistan.. Dont sit in Pentagon or in Kerala and imagine American prowess .Judge by what they are capable by their performance in the battle ground. Now I never talked about Pakistan using nuclear option against NATO which every one knows is suicidal /heck they didnt even send jets to save their soldiers in salala attack..Nevertheless this war is going to be protracted and painful war for all and for trade to happen (except drugs) in aghanistan it will take 10 years.. Coming to delusion, Americans civilians can be angry at pakistan but there are no takers for war .Also they were hating IRAN ,North Korea for decades ,did they attack ?.
@Rajendra Kalkhande: that was one cool comment, i thank and salute you on behalf of all pashtuns.
@HSK: where are you from? if not Pashtun, then please stop giving comments like these, We the Pashtuns have always been abused by this phrase....we are no different than any other human beings... its like motivating someone for some wrong doing...
uhhh...aren't they already doing that? I guess making it public is a subtle declaration of war. Our 'democratic' President and Prime Minister are merely puppet emperors hidden under the cloak of democracy. Pakistanis can blame their rotten selves for the predicament they find themselves in. The nation is guilty and this is their penance.Justice is served.
@antony:
Dude you are delusional. US has more than enough fire power to take out every single nuclear missile Pakistan ever built. You may not know this, Pakistan nuclear missile are not loaded, they are nuclear capable.
Let us suppose they are are loaded, how many are loaded, heard of half life? Next argument is US doesn’t know where they are, Really?
You don’t even know how much US Citizens are fed up with Pakistan, they want to teach Pakistan a lesson. The only question is how much civilian casualty is US is going to tolerate, how much casualties Pakistan wants to tolerate. If the attack is confined, there won’t be much and casualties will limited to Haquani’s and their supporters.
Delusions are great in difficult times.
@Rana: We are definitely not in the position for conventional combat against NATO, therefore, what we need is to put our nuclear arsenal in order, and to define the targets So now we will have a nuclear confrontation with the US and the entire West. Looks like our generals are all fans of Jim Jones, that guy in Guyana who invented the concept of 'collective suicide'.
@Syed Khalil Ullah:
Keep holding your breadth until apology comes!
@HSK: "However, its a ‘fact’ that Afghanistan has always been a “graveyard for empires”. First, it was not so Great Britain, followed by USSR and now it’s USA’s turn to try its luck in attempting to conquer immortal Afghan pakhtuns. "
Agreed. If so, then how come Pakistan can imagine to be successful in using Afghanistan as strategic depth without going to graveyard? Don't you think Pakistan is already half in graveyard in her attempt of doing so?
Soldiers at salala at one heavy machine gun 12.7mm, which was taken out by US Helis firing 30mm machine gun from far and above guided by night vision and computerized fire and control. Soldiers were sitting ducks .... If they had MANPADS, situation might have been different... No doubt US used overwhelming force against Pakistan, that's why it was not an isolated incident of mistaken identity..
Time for Pakistan to drink a very strong coffee & understand that we are heading towards destruction! First we made India our enemy & lost half the country & now have made USA, the only super power on this planet as our enemy. Please for the sake of future generations, wake up before it's too late. Pride or Country! Make a choice.
In order to achieve the objective,both Pakistan and USA should stop leaking or issuing harsh statements,and continue the dialogue with time frame.Undiplomatic statements issued so for by them have complicated the issue and given birth to mutual suspicion.All outstanding issues can be amicably settled with flexibility on both side.
Isn't these bombing carried out by CIA Black Ops to prepare battleground within Pakistan? Or did I played too much Call of Duty - Modern Ware-fare series?.
However, its a 'fact' that Afghanistan has always been a "graveyard for empires". First, it was not so Great Britain, followed by USSR and now it's USA's turn to try its luck in attempting to conquer immortal Afghan pakhtuns. Generations after generation, they are always born in war-zone and they embrace martyrdom in war-zone. It's their way of life. The Afghan Lifestyle. Too complex for Panetta to comprehend or digest.
It is opened to the whole world,American intelligence by its sources found out Alqaeda chief Osama Bin Laden,taken away and drowned in the sea.
Pakistani areas,bordering Afghanistan has long been known as havens of militants and other extremists coming from Pakistan,Afghanistan and beyond.
On the failure or refusal from the Pakistani side,United States decided to go behind insurgents entered into Afghanistan and attacked Nato and American forces but without any prior permission from Pakistan.
It would be clandestine operation.
In this way,it is rightly expected that the war against terrorism may extend to..............and the region became a burning heel. God bless us all.
We need to minimize time of response to any kind of retaliation. There would be no point of return if NATO advances to our soil. We are definitely not in the position for conventional combat against NATO, therefore, what we need is to put our nuclear arsenal in order, and to define the targets.
America tries to achieves its foreign policy goals through a select lot of fickle people who benefit greatly and not through the people at large who get nothing but they really matter. Its a flawed approach, I think they know this but do not know how to correct it.
Pakistan, Pakistan! We are real good at turning a perfectly normal and friendly working partnership into an acrimonious and adversarial contest to our own disadvantage. Lesson in Anti-Diplomacy-101 ----this is how you squeeze self-defeat out of victory or anything resembling victory and turn allies into enemies and even worse when that adversary happens to be the only Super Power in the world who has the rest of the world, that matters, in its camp. It's time that some sanity prevailed and public demands our policy makers and those driven by political populism to refrain from this suicidal mission.
well if US does ground operation then nothing will happen , they will come like Abbottabad . and will leave. and Govt will do nothing . they will come on media and condemn it after operation . If they are such country lovers then why don't shoot down the drone ...
I enjoy the logic behind saying they lost in Afghanistan. I know it's just the self-aggrandizing of an insecure ideology but, still. What's better is there's the statement of a loss and then references to raids in Pakistan. A loss in Afghanistan would make those hypothetical raids impossible. Pick one as your topics and try to stay away from thinking you're insightful. A confident comment stating nonsense is only good for a laugh at your expense. Even your imagination should make sense if you let it leave your mouths. A loss there would only free up the assets to attack Pakistan, as well, and you can't even handle what is currently happening to you. You're only still standing because of the US/NATO. But, instead of acknowledging that you seem to have the goal of placing yourselves right between TTP and the US in a pincer attack and neither one would have to even plan an advantage. You're seemingly content to give openings gift wrapped.and you can't even handle either one, one on one, even when you'd be trying your hardest. If you can't beat India, you can't beat the US - that is a fact.
I dont think America will be stupid enough to deploy boots on the ground to attack haqqani network in NW . Watch the interview of Leon Pannetta in Indian defence academy ...He clearly states pakistan needs to be handled carefully as they are nuclear power. This is akin to North Korea where proliferation is a threat not that Pakistan army will use Nuclear power against NATO . Hence America can only offer loads and loads of money which can move Pakistan to do some work for America.. America cannot plan a government in afghanistan without pakistan in central role which is proved beyond doubt after 11 years of war with sophisticated weapons and satellites which still cannot stop taliban attacks in US bases. IF America and NATO countries cant defeat taliban in afghanistan its too much to ask Pakistan to clear up the hornest nest.. By the way what is the incentive for pakistan to do America's work ? .. 100 billion dollars ? ..No just 1 billion dollar per year that too promised and not delivered fully.. The only solution is Money to the tune of 100 billion dollars to pakistan to recover its economy and then Pakistan can take the blow back from taliban in pakistan when Pakistan and NATO jointly flush the Talibans from the entire region.Else put up with them and work for development .
Indians have been saying for the last ten years that terrorism problem is not in Afghanistan; it is actually in Pakistan. The Americans after sending a trillion dollars down the drain have come to their senses. Without American ground and air operations in Pakistani tribal areas, this war can never be won. The American operations would only start after the Presidential elections. Pakistani Generals bravado would be severely tested and I am sure their nuclear bluff will called once and for all.
As I understand, they are not advocating replacing drones with boots on the ground, but instead hot pursuit that may cross the border. While this will exacerbate tensions with Pakistan, I don't see what punitive actions can be taken as the theatre of activity is Pakistani soil, and that too for a very short time in an area that has hardly any army presence to begin with. The Pak army will not be foolish enough to attack the Afghan army with regular forces as this will be a genuine escalation - and once we move into an actual war scenario (instead of cheap terrorist attacks), Pak army will be no match for US/ NATO forces.
Surrunder will be the only option if America atacks
@Pakistani: 'please tell us what the heck the reason USA is not ready to apologies?' People only apologize when they are wrong. OBL was found in Pakistan; did you apologize to the world? I can understand why the bowl for Dollars but what I cannot understand is why keeping on begging for an apology that is not forthwith coming.
Clandestin raids in the tribal areas with the assistance of Afghan forces can not be ruled out.Decision in this regard has been taken by the Afghan leadership and state department .Coming few months are very important in this connection.
In fact, American civil and military leadership believe that their enemies have safe havens in Pakistan's Waziristan and other remote areas,from where extremists comes and attack on Nato and American forces crossing the border at night.
On many occasion,meetings American had conveyed messages to Pakistani leadership in the words,Do more,Do more,but they received no required results.And relation between the countries has strained on the issue of Salala out post incident and ground supply routs.
Frustration has been increased and patience crossed its limits so they decided to crucial military action against HUqqani groups in Waziristan and related remote areas .
As for as outcomes of the military action is concerned,war may extend to the other areas and may also unleashed and converted into dangerous shape.
@Pakistani: Think of it this way. If Salala incident was to check the capability of Pakistan Army when they are really awake and not sleeping as on May 2, would rendering an apology be appropriate ?
@Rana: 'I don’t think Indian think tank is as foolish to put their country’s future & security on stake against any kind of bargaining with you.' Well it depends on your 'non state and supported actors.' Sorry to hear that you do not like to have butter with your popcorns.
Bombastic!
Bring it on!!! You are bringing it on yourself. Any adventurism just for the sake of elections is utter stupidity.
Harassing diplomats ??? or CIA contractors ? like Raymond Davis ?
Pakistan army's ultimate goal is to keep its grip of omnipotence on the nation. Its every move revolves around this goal. Confrontation with India, with Afghanistan, now with the US (whose money provides the generals an extravagant llifestyle). Welfare of the Pakistani nation? (as measured by education, rule of law, health care, commerce, jobs, hope for the next generation)......the khakis couldn't care less about that, and rightly so. Because the welfare of 180 million Pakistanis has now become mutually exclusive with the welfare of a few thousand generals, admirals, air marshals. Now, it is either 'We the People' or 'You the khakis'. The two notions cannot co-exist any more.
@Nand:
Hold on, I don’t want to diminish your dream, infect they want to enjoy the popcorn with butter themselves, and doing all efforts to put us into Ring.
@PK: The other side may also ask what those soldiers at Salala were holding - sticks? Why wasn't there a response? It is that kind of overwhelming power we are talking about.
@Mirza: You are so informed and the analysis you have is so precise, can you please tell us what the heck is the reason USA is not ready to apologies?
The people which believes OBL falls prey to abbotabad drama, I would request them to please stop contributing this credit to US.
@RizwanTKhan: ha ha ha. u wont even come to know unless operation sucessfull. Remember osama.
Instead to make matter more complicated and open the carton that is veiling weakening power of US in front of world this will be wise to make apology for Salala incident and end up the matter
@alicia: Agree with you. When Salala bombing went on for 2 hours also n jets were scrambled to defend Pakistani soldiers.
Come on we are fed up of your threats, what are you waiting for? Infect you people are trying to cover up your failure in AFG. Moreover, your plan to get your job done by India may not be fulfilled. I don’t think Indian think tank is as foolish to put their country’s future & security on stake against any kind of bargaining with you. Your frustration is genuine because in eleven years you have gained nothing instead losing trillions of dollars and hundreds of army personals. Pakistan and India needs to be very careful, because there might be a planned Huge Accident designed by US to indulge us into WAR.
They were able to come to Abbotabad. Stay there for 2 hours right next to a military academy and our "Bahadurs" were no where to be seen. Infact the most wanted man in the world lived in the face of our "Bahadurs" for 6 years and they couldn't catch him.
So really doubt that the would do anything to stop Americans in the Tribal areas.
I am going to buy a big bag of popcorns with a lot of butter for this Hollywood blockbuster.
Pakistan says there are no safe havens INSIDE Pakistan (except North Waziristan and various safe houses around Abbottabad)!
God help Pakistan if Obama is re-elected. The establishment is bent to bring down the country to its knees with the full support of its people. Vive la Pakistan.
@Mirza. I have been associated with different projects of US military in Afghanistan and i can confirm you that the first policy they adopted in Afghanistan was that of reconciliation back in 2003. Now again, they are pressing for the same. Why can't we offer the same to our people, I am sure most gonna get back and join the main stream. Those left should be taken action against.
@Mirza: "US would do the job itself with the AFGHAN ARMY." LOL I like your sense of humour. We all know how compitent, professional and US friendly is that army.
This is the agenda of AQ to get Pak and US to go into war, so that they can whip up religious feelings in Pak and take over Pak and its nuclear arsenal if possible. Hope US and PAK see the game of AQ in proper perspective, put their head together and sort out the mess.
War they bring upon us...want us to fight against the Afghans. Afghanistan should NOT get into this.
What about USA own miserable failure in Afghanistan. This time if US forces enter Pakistan. We all should make sure they never step out of Pakistan ALIVE!
When the US has made a plan to leave Afghanistan by a certain date, they are not going to wait and beg any country to help them out. If we do not clean out the terrorist havens and particularly Haqqani group, the US would do the job itself with the Afghan army. When Pakistan could not save OBL, the Haqqani group is not that valuable asset. Whether we do it or the NATO does it, the choice is ours.
I would consider this a declaration of war..
They r already carrying covert actions on Pakistani soil through traitors of Ummah, "TTP", Pakistanis are not unaware of the fact.
The Establishments love of its proxies transcends any affection towards ones own people. This strategy can bring nothing but doom to any country. That the intelligentia and free Media continue in their slumber does not help matters. Today the force that guzzles the largest share of revenue by raising false bogeys about imaginary enemies has ceded half the nations territory to warlords and gangs. The house is on fire but Power brokers continue to inflame passions and play Politics.
About time. Ghq get ready to be embarrased again & again.
its election year in US and i would not be surprised if they actually end up charging into the tribal areas..
The end game is nearing.....next 12 months are crucial for Pakistan. The Giant ATM is broke.
Americans can go bang their heads in the wall. Pakistanis are fed up of their cooked up nonsense day in and day out!
Pakistan will not open the supply routes until an apology is issued and until drone strikes stop. The drones have killed hundreds of innocent Pakistanis on the Afghan border. There can be no compromise on this issue. Plain and simple!
well, it's time pakistan give the four letter word back to USA.