Christianity to Islam, and back: 60-year-old woman disgraced for reconversion
Sixty-year-old Seema Bibi went from being a Christian to a Muslim, and back, in six months – but fellow villagers did not take kindly to this change of heart, and religion.
Seema was tortured – her head shaved – and paraded through the streets of village Kot Marth, garlanded with shoes, police officials and residents said.
After receiving threats of ‘dire consequences’ from village clerics, Seema and her family have migrated from Kot Marth, sources added.
Seema, wife of Yousaf Masih, had converted to Islam six months ago, but went back to her original faith a few days ago, inviting the locals’ ire, officials said.
In ‘retaliation’ for the reconversion, about 27 locals, at the behest of one Muhammad Ayub, tortured Seema, shaved her head, garlanded her with shoes and paraded her through the village streets on February 26.
Police were not aware of the incident and consequently there was a delay in registering a case, SHO Begowala police station Munawar Hussain Shah told The Express Tribune. A case has been registered against Ayub and others, Shah said.
The motive behind the villagers’ ‘retaliation’ was the reconversion from Islam to Christianity, the official said, adding that all 27 accused identified by Seema have been arrested.
Police have stepped up surveillance in the village after the incident, due to tensions between the Muslims and the Christians, he said.
Following the assault, Seema and her family left the village to save their lives, Shah said, adding that police would have ensured their safety had they stayed behind.
Seema and her husband, talking to The Express Tribune from an undisclosed location via telephone, said that they left the village after receiving consistent threats of ‘dire consequences’ from extremists in their area.
Some of the accused have also been freed on bail, they said. “We left the village since we had no other option,” her husband added.
Published in The Express Tribune, March 10th, 2012.
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1724919650-0/Untitled-design-(5)1724919650-0-270x192.webp "kundi blames k p govt for kurram situation")
@elementary: This Zaid Hamid is not "that" zaid hamid. "This" Zaid Hamid is in fact the antithesis of "that" Zaid Hamid. :-)
Under the circumstances of extreme brutality against minorities in Punjab and with the back drop of the "blasphemy law" fall-out. First step is to ban the Public participation in a person's conversion. Second, watch for any conversion in "violence hit" areas which could have happened under the threat of life. Third, an affidavit by the converted about her free-will must be produced. Still it should be a private matter due to the fact of the threat of public outrage that get out of control if the new convert don't follow through. Above all, we should strive for "Quality" and not "Quantity" of faithfuls.
@zalim singh: yes it does. I'm not denying that. In Islam, once a non-believer reverts to Islam, and later leaves it, there is a death penalty for him/her cuz it is considered treason. But here the case is entirely different. Not enough information is given but what we're able perceive is that this woman revert to Islam because of her marriage. which in first place, was not for the sake of finding the right faith but for the sake of keeping her marriage. so when she basically reverted back was NOT with the right intention. and only in 6 months no one can decide what is right or wrong with one religion. It is a very little time to judge. So in my theory she never changed her belief. but lets say, she did and than converted back to her religion, even then no one has a right to so be brutal. "shaving head" and "parading her through the village" is completely non-islamic. I wonder where these morons get the backing of their distorted beliefs.
@Aamer: Then you have not read the Hadith reported above
There is no real standard of proof under Shariah law, just the strength of the allegations. A whole village says she converted to Islam and then back to Christianity? What if she did NOT convert to Islam in the first place? The media bases their information from Muslim mobs and jihad leaders/organizations nowadays. In this article, there appears to be no investigation of the facts, no interview with the victim, just the rantings and abuse of the Muslim mob enforcing Shariah law. What if the Muslim neighbors simply wanted the family home of the victim so concocted the story that she converted? Muslim mobs have been known to claim dead bodies as Muslim converts in order to steal the inheritance. The media also takes it for granted that apostasy from Islam is a legitimate crime because it is an Islamic principle. It appears the media is also taking it for granted that Muslim mobs who abuse non-<Muslims are beyond scrutiny.
@Rakib:
'However,if a person born as a non-Muslim adult makes a conscious choice favouring Islam but subsequently develops second thoughts and re-converts to his original faith or to some other then it becomes every body’s (Muslim’s) business.'
Your assumption that a conscious choice can't go wrong is false. Ask any human being around you who lives a life. Many times in life we make a conscious decision which we later find out to be wrong and we try to correct it. This seems the case of lady in the context.
Does everybody's business mean whatever other people (Muslims) thinks is right, even if it's death or whatever happened in this case?..Sorry if i am hurting your feelings but who gave these other people right to do such heinous crime in the name of Allah and Islam?
Pakistanis are not Muslims period. They have muslim names but but large majority are pagans they worship graves, are superstitious, and corrupt to the core. I feel sorry for the confused poor lady
Death for an apostate, speaks of an intolerant, barbaric culture and cult.
Absolutely. Conversion to Islam is one way ticket, atleast in Pakistan. Somebody should have warned the poor lady!
I was born in a Muslim family but quit religion when I noticed so many ignorant people follow religion,i know its not in Islam what happened to this poor women n her family but I just cant be part of ignorant people.
@Raj - USA: Been there! Done that! Buddy! But I realized that after giving all the "open minded universal teachings" if I don't develop a sense of special identity in my kids in a foreign land, they definitely will be lost like a "needle in a hay stack". Better yet, like a seed on the ground that never had the motivation to become a plant or a fruitful tree. Bottom line! I'm not 100% impressed by the modern educated man, really.
Roses to enter axe to exit !!!
Religion of peace of course. What else?
Pakistan is now officially on the track to become the first country to completely washout minorities and proudly become the bravest defender of Islam!!!!!!! (due thanks and kudos to Mohammed Ghaznavi........) The almighty shall be so proud of your attempt to save the existence of God himself/herself..... It is such a difficult job for other mortal humans!! Only Pakistanis can save the existence of God!!
Why do people have to leave Islam?
A religion for the illiterate tribal dwellers of Arabia.
@sara: With thoughts and beliefs like your's, please don't ever desire to live in a non-Islamic country. You won't be welcome!
@sara
You are fairness personified and Islam is the religion of peace.
Why would anyone want to leave one true religion?
@Mj: Mj
"78% of Pakistanis Muslims support death penalty for apostates."
From the same PEW research often quoted by Imran Khan as authentic.
@zaid hamid: Totally useless remark. It is not a cult or a secret underground society. This is due to misinterpretation of religious texts by our mullahs
Death for apostasy is common not just in Pakistan but Afghanistan,Saudi Arabia,Egypt and many other Muslim nations even though without having backup or reference from The Holy Quran. Earlier,someone pasted a link from Islam-QA in order to support severe punishment for apostates,but the interesting point to be noted is that even in the link the Sheikh just mentioned few Hadiths but not a single verse from The Holy Quran. So how can we follow any Hadith if it contradicts teachings of The Holy Quran at the first place? Not just back home,even in Canada I observed a disturbing trend.I have got few friends who regularly attend lectures of few of the Islamic institutions in North America. Infront of them, once I showed disagreement with laws relating to apostasy in Saudi Arabia,Pakistan etc.....over which they said that bro,it is in Shariah and you have to obey it,you can't ignore such duties. When I talked about no compulsion in religion then they said that Allah SWT is also Al-Jabbar and Al-Qahhar...what??so does it mean we'll take laws in our own hands? Does the Almighty require our actions and cooperation in order to do his tasks Nauzubillah? Earlier,this second year student from a University showed appreciaition for a murderer like Malik Mumtaz Qadri and quoted few lectures from some Imam. With such an attitude,forget about non-Muslims studying the teachings of Islam, I guess even people born in Muslim families would start to think about converting to some other faith, perhaps many in Pakistan are already thinking about doing it and will declare it once they take a flight and land in some Western nation.
The Islamic way is to give three days for repentance, before killing.
The apostate should be treated with reasonable respect for the three days though.
Again misuse of islamic thinking. This is the reason that many people prefer to become munafik rather than peacefully leaving Islam.
Finally the world powers and UN have o be involved if the cult of intolerance based on religion has to be isolated and systematically eliminated.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Every year millions of Americans and Europeans embrace Islam. Islam is the second largest and growing religion in the USA and Europe. What happened in Pakistan is a crime and criminals should be punished. Muslims need to be very causious about nefarious agendas against Islam. This is the conspiracy to malign Islam and peaceful Muslims around the globe.
@abdullah: O believe u me, pakistani have made it a joke and laughing stock of the world.
@Haq B.: @Wonderful & @Zeta:
@Zeta, in your first comment you say that this is a cooked up story by ET. In your response to @Wonderful you say that this alleged incidence happened in a remote part of Pakistan. First denying then going the other way.
@Javed: & @Feroz: I agree with you that such fanatic (or may I call lunatic) muslims of Pakistan have done so much damage to Islam that even Kaufirs cannot do. Sane voices like you keep hopes alive. I had been writing in my comments on the Rinkle Forced Conversion news and other news items that it is easy to say that you are religious and also preach religion as any lame, idiot can do it. But it is difficult to practice any religion as it requires comprehension that requires knowledge and wisdom. There is hardly 5% of the religious scholars in any religion who have the knowledge and wisdom.
Haq B, you talk about "free will" in accepting a religion. I feel that free will comes from conviction. Preaching someone that this religion is the best or inviting them to join your religion even without forcing them, do not necessarily make it "free will". Conviction comes from inner realization. I would feel that the religion is great if I see the followers of the religion follow certain principles that are good and noble. The greatness of any religion is seen through the acts of its followers and not what they claim or preach. Practicing any religion is difficult but anyone can be a preacher of any religion. What most do not realize is that a religion gains reputation and spreads, not by the number of people who claim to belong to that religion but by those who actually practice the principles laid down in the religion. Not by the verses in the religion, but by the reason and meaning of those verses. It is sad to see Rinkle encircled by such a large crowd of men with guns and mullas on her way to the Court and not a single woman seen in the crowd. How much "free will" would this be ?
Here in USA, Christian Missionaries from many Churches visit me regularly, may be once a month. They are from American Churches and also from Korean Churches. I used to avoid them years ago but for the last few years listen and chat with them whenever I have time. What impressed me was that the Korean Church has printed books comparing similarities of Hinduism (may be other religions also) and Christianity. They gave me the book and also explained to me. They never asked me to convert. However, they served their religion the best possible way that I have developed a respect for them. I even gave the book to my children and asked them to read.
There are lot of fair minded muslims in Pakistan The problem, as I see with other muslims in Pakistan is that they have a deep inferiority complex. This is the reason such pakistanis claim to be part of Arabs or belonging to the Muslim community of the entire world. This leads them to dream about the Caliphate that has caused serious damage. The order should be: the Individual, then the Family, then the Nation and then the Community (religious or other). This order is reversed in Pakistan by flawed teachings. The ultimate should be one the Humankind but it may be possible only if we are attacked by aliens from another world, just like in the Hollywood movie "Independence Day" .
The character of Pakistani Muslims is totally against the teaching of Holy Quran where Allah says that there is no compulsion in deen (religion). Unfortunate Muslims putting Quranic orders on side and listen to the ignorant Mullas who try to deny a basic right of human being to follow or change at his or her faith, with some hadiths and historical events without any background credibility. Either-way, Quranic teachings are superior than any other teachings. "Another verse states:
"Those who believe, then reject Faith, then believe (again) and again reject Faith, go on increasing in Unbelief--God will not forgive them nor guide them on the Way.” [4:137]
An apostate cannot enjoy the repeated luxury of believing and disbelieving if punishment is death. A dead man has no further chance of again believing and disbelieving. Furthermore, if taken at face value, this verse indicates that God will only withdraw His guidance after repeated rejections. It does not tell Prophet (s) to kill these apostates. So, what right do these religious authorities and imams have to deprive a person of access to the divine guidance after the first? (http://www.toledomuslims. com/criterion/Article.asp?ID=254)"
Changing religion is not a decision that you make overnight. It must be a well thought out decision. One must remember that under the teachings of Islam, one is not allowed to switch over to his or her old religion after embracing Islam. Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam.
Islam does not approve the converting the followers of other religions by force. So anyone who wants to become a Muslim should first study the teachings of Islam and if he or she converts it implies that he or she is doing it on his or her own free will.
@Peeru Shah: What has this got to do with being ashamed as Pakistani...... Crime happens in every society so by your account, u will ashamed of any nationailty.;;;;;
@Samson Simon Sharaf: And how do u know this my indian friend...... I can easily say it happens all the time in India!!!!!L
@Zeta: @unbeliever: The people who have committed this crime should be punished.....so if there is a crime in a society, does that mean the whole society is to be blamed. Every day there is rapes, murders in Pakistan and india so my indian friends, there is no point in pointing fingers at Pakistan because u guys are no saints either.....
Zeta - very well said......
She is sixty years old. How many of the 27 were older than the woman. At least respect her age. For all those who claim that Islam is not like this, I am sorry to say but Islam is what the Muslims make of it to be. You can always claim Islam to be some abstract ideal concept that people should be striving for, but at the end of the day, what you practice here and now is the Islam that others religions and atheists see, and what we see ain't pretty at all.
Being attacked for changing religion doesn't sound like Islam to me.
@above all those who never cared to read Quran and are advocating killing those who leave Islam here is what Quran says:
"Those who believe, then disbelieve and then (again) believe, then disbelieve, and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never pardon them, nor will He guide them unto a way." -Surat An-Nisa, verse 137.
Giving punishment for leaving Islam lies with Allah alone, not in the hands of Muslims.
Everyone,
Shouldnt we focus on...What actually lead her to choose her
previousreligion over Islam...?? I am sure the answers to the question might be an eye-opener for the readers here..@Javed:
"..Shame on such people who allow conversion to Islam but do not allow conversion from Islam..."
Following is IMHO & subject to correction: Since nobody can choose his religion at birth if a person born as a Muslim makes a choice as an adult to convert to another religion that is his personal business. However,if a person born as a non-Muslim adult makes a conscious choice favouring Islam but subsequently develops second thoughts and re-converts to his original faith or to some other then it becomes every body's (Muslim's) business. Extreme censure then is called for. This is to prevent tomfoolery and to avoid misuse of certain provisions of Muslim Law that govern marriage,divorce,inheritance etc. Indians familiar with story of Haryana Bhajan Lal's son Chandra Mohan alias Chand Mohammad marrying Anuradha Bali alias Fiza with attendant media frenzy on misuse of "conversion" should know.
The entire history of Islam in South Asia, is hsitory of conversions , mostly from poor and marginalized sections of society , mostly because the rulers at that time were muslims, who discriminated against non-muslims and conversion offered protection and material benefits. The same is true in Pakistan for past 65 years and is the reason why minorities who made 20-25% of the population of W Pakistan are reduced to 2% today.
@alicia: "She should’ve been brought to court and tried." For what, Alicia, when even you are not sure that she had converted (entered the "mousetrap")?
78% of Pakistanis Muslims support death penalty for apostates.
Why...? Why cannot a person exercise free will and have freedom of conscience?
@zaid hamid: You make religion sound like the mafia! Get over yourself.
This lady is very courageous, almost of sucidial proportion.She has to be naive not to be aware of the consequenses of such a move.
In Islamic and Pakistani law once you are muslim there is no way back except death. All the apologists above should understand that. Whether its right or wrong thats how it is and any non-muslim especially in PK should think 100000 times before converting because it is a one way ticket. You can say its unfair and unhumane but thats what happens so learn to deal with it
Apostasy is a crime punishable by death.
In the name of ISLAM !!!!!!!
@zaid hamid: Your ideaology is very similar to Hitler,do you even realize that?
And still Majority of Pakistani muslims wants Islamic Pakistan, so no other religion beside Islam is allowed to practice and once u leave Islam u will get death penalty. Bravo! Salute to the religion of "tolerance"!
Who were these people and why did they feel entitled to have any opinion on this ladies religion?? (or lack of it). This sort of behaviour is more likely to stop any conversions rather than attract people to Islam
The sad thing is that religion is used as a handy stick to beat the powerless with. To progress as a society we need to understand that we are only responsible for our own thoughts and actions, and dont have the right to comment in any way on others.
Apparently this lady was not safe from the hands or tongues of this mob and so i guess this makes them worse muslims than she.
Islam does not let you go back to your previous religion once you accept it. The person who leaves Islam becomes liable to be killed.
@abdul basit: islam dont force u to convert one should think 1000 times before becoming muslim but once muslim its one way ticket then the door of going back is closed islam is not a joke you convert and after 6 months you go back
@Wonderful: How about you watch your words. 98% Pakistanis have nothing to do with it. The alleged incident happened in a village and i & you know pretty well how conservative those people are.
Well in Islam once you enter you can't leave. Zakir Naik has done whole lectures on this issue. If anyone disagrees they can watch them on Youtube. He doesn't state his personal opinion but actually gives proper quotes.
Nevertheless this woman converted 6 months ago whats the evidence that she did convert?Maybe she was just studying about Islam and other people decided that she has converted. She should've been brought to court and tried.
@Farzan: Sir Zaid Hamid is being sarcastic. That's his style.
why did she convert to islam??? obviously mullahs
@Peeru Shah: i seriously doubt if humanity cares about a poor Pakistani woman getting abused in a Pakistani village. In fact I can bet by life savings that no one gives a hoot. But you guys should. It's your country and that woman is a Pakistani citizen.
@zaid hamid: "Sir" Zaid Hamid, I just remembered the lines from this popular song by the group eagles called hotel California. It goes like this...
"We are programmed to receive. You can checkout any time you like, But you can never leave."
Looks like many believers beleive in those lines. maybe Hafeez Saeed will sing these lines in his next "defense of Pakistan" jalsa or whatever...
@Feroz: what the "believers" beleive in the issue. Everyone is a believer in some thing or the other. Even hitler was a "believer". He believed that Jews are responsible for all ills of the world. He also "beleived' that killing all of them will solve all problems. So the question is what do your "believers" beleive in?
The same fate would have fallen on that Hindu girl who was kidnapped, converted and married if she had refused. She had to do what she did to avoid a similar fate. Can't blame her for that. Survival is important. There is a reason why Pakistan is an "Islamic" republic. Jinnahs dream is turning into every nonmuslims nightmare in Pakistan.
I wonder why people change their religion in the first place. If by religious they mean charitable and virtuous then i think no existing religion preach otherwise. A person born with a religion is his real religion, ought to stick to it if he wants live a religious life but i don't think religion is too important to put all your stakes in.
Please, Muslim bro's don't make Islam look like a Cruel Religion.We must respect others feelings, instead rubbing our's on them..Have you guys gave a thought to why -"Non-Muslim people almost never dare to get settled in Islamic Countries, whereas we reside in west Countries without a single Negative thought in Mind..Lets try to make Islam a Peace loving and a religion which never says, No to Individual feelings........:)
Leaving Islam and adopting another religion is not a crime, but a matter of personal choice.
Shame on these people.. And shame on us for being a part of this society where freewill doesnt exist..
@JM: And you couldnt find a more neutral source?
@Farzan: Well sourced wikipedia article Apostasy in Islam.
Is it moral or not? You tell me.
@ Wajiha Syed
Islam clearly speaks of death sentence to people who commit apostacy- Renouncing Islam. So be very clear.
For all those commenting, first research and then comment, check this: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/811/murtad
There should not be any conversions allowed without a proper Effidevit filed by the converted about his/her "free will" in the act. Also all converted must be given a "trial period" of say; one year, to atleast experience all "seasons" of the new faith. The Muslim law should be lenient to such persons' "unsure" faithfulness. After all, Islamic laws in its history have adopted to human brain's developmental stages of that time, why not now? Imagine how lonely and out-of-place you would be in modern times if you are plucked out from the circle of your friends and relatives and replanted in another, atleast for few year or more, that's if there is no TV, Radio, Old faces, voices, festivals, holidays and plus a great deal of love and care provided from new group.
Shame on Pakistanis.
@zaid hamid
I think you're true...The Mullahs have made a beautiful religion like Islam similar to Sicilian Mafioso.... They talk of ummah the brotherhood like Cosa Nostra.... You need to fight for your people whether they're right or wrong,,,You cant make friends with others....You need to follow orders without questioning...Critics are not allowed..You can fight your brothers but fighting outsiders is ok.... Once entered,you cant leave...If u leave,you will be punished so cruelly that noone will ever think of leaving....
Looks like Islam needs a revolution like all other religions in the world....Christianity changed from the most intolerant to tolerant within a century...
Pathetic. What they do is coerce under threat and then convert. Happens almost on daily basis.
another cooked story brought to you by ET
@zaid hamid: mind telling me a reliable source that confirms this?
how sad is this ? and they claim to be muslims? nowhere in islam does it say that islam is a one way religion... if you dont believe in the teachings of Islam you are FREE to convert into any religion... you cannot force your beliefs on anyone..Islam doesnt allow you to do so .. im proud to call myself a muslim...but extremely sad.. hopefully the twenty seven accused of this horrendous crime will get what they deserve
@Wajiha Syed: Its all written in the qoran.When people claim otherwise they simply arent following the qoran word for word.The talibans are.
I think no other country and people harmed the Islam by their actions than Pakistan. Shame on such people who allow conversion to Islam but do not allow conversion from Islam. I think in Pakistan, given protection, many people will leave Islam but i guess fear of threat to life keeps them silent.
The country has brought nothing but disgrace to a great religion called Islam. The religion has been sullied, stamped on, defiled and humiliated by followers in the land of the pure. What Kafirs could never ever do is being done by believers. Shame on you !
Islam is a one way religion. Once you enter thrre is no going back.
Ashamed to call myself a Pakistani. Its indeed a sad day for humanity.
Pathetic excuse for a society!
If people are welcomed so warmly and enthusiastically when they become Muslims,why aren't they allowed to change religions? if getting into an ideology is allowed,then why not leaving that ideology allowed by society?
Well, at least Rinkle managed to avoid this fate.
well those islamists who were saying that rinkle converted of her own, and THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION, where are they now?
yes it happens in your religion, accept it, and try to reform it.