Pakistan

Indo-Pak talks: No high expectations, says New Delhi

External Affairs Minister S M Krishna said India is determined to work out a cordial relationship with Pakistan.

Express June 22, 2011

As Indo-Pak talks start tomorrow in Islamabad, New Delhi has said all issues that “bug” ties between the two countries will be discussed, but expectations should not be pitched too high.

External Affairs Minister SM Krishna told reporters that India is making a “determined bid” to work out a cordial relationship with Pakistan.

However, he asked everyone to refrain from speculating about the talks, saying this is a relationship the two sides have been trying to cultivate in the last few months.

Krishna said terrorism is going to be one of the issues that are going to be discussed with Pakistan.

Earlier Krishna had said that the trust deficit between the two countries needed to be reduced.

Krishna said the issue of Tahawur Rana, who was recently declared not guilty in the Mumbai attacks case, as well as the “extradition of Dawood Ibrahim” will be discussed during the meetings.

Indian Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao also said that the issue of terrorism is of utmost concern to everyone in the region.

COMMENTS (44)

Hedgefunder | 12 years ago | Reply @sanjithmenon: Sadly its not about Human Rights!! as they simply do not exist in Pakistan for sure and even in India there are serious abuses too!! So please don't patronise anyone with such remarks! As it really does not impress any one!! One only has to view the recent incidents related to Cabinet Ministers of state taken out in broad daylight!!! Any Conclusion to the attackers!!! NO!!! Infact the Officers of Court Showered them with rose petals!!!! So much for Justice in todays Pakistan!!!! Need i name more such cases?? It was a Day when i regreted my Original Qualification and was practising it in Courts of London!!! Never did i think that the members of this fraternity will stoop so low as Pakistan's Lawyers have in whole World!!!

Hedgefunder | 12 years ago | Reply Forget Kashmir! Period!! Its Not a Flavour of the Month, it seems from the reports i am privy, to as of present the Nuclear & Arms limitation is the core agenda with view to further talks by the experts from both sides in very near future!!! Indais has extended its Hand of Friendship, without receiving any thing in return yet! In interest of Stability in the region!!! But I dread to think a change of Govt in India as then we will all be back to square one!!!

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harkol | 12 years ago | Reply @Hedgefunder: You are right that Majority of Kashmir may not choose Pakistan, but if given a chance they may choose to be independent at least by a narrow margin (about 55:45 ratio on the basis of ethnicity of the area). India has stayed largely secular, but that wasn't without some effort. India as a nation hasn't disintegrated, even that took effort. Breaking away of Kashmir has potential to unravel the country in lines of religion. India can't risk that, so India will fight tooth and nail to preserve its integrity. If Pakistan establishment can't understand this simple fact, they are doomed to pursue the failed policies for another generation, which will result in further disintegration of Pakistan.

harkol | 12 years ago | Reply Pakistan's only claim on Kashmir is that it is a Muslim Majority state, where as by law it is part of India because of instrument of accession. Kashmir never chose to join Pakistan but it still occupied it. A Plebiscite that was to be held in Kashmir was rendered Infructuous by Pakistan by its obduracy to vacate the territory and also by ceding some territory to China in 1960s. The ideology of religion based nationhood, has resulted in an ethnic cleansing of alarming scale. In Pakistan, Hindus have been reduced from 18% in 1947 to less than 1% of population today. In Kashmir, 400,000 Kashmir Pandits who have been residents of the area for more than 5,000 years, were pushed out. Read- http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.CON.RES.344: Kashmir is not a subjugated land. Subjugation was what British did to India/Pakistan/USA, where we paid tax without representation or equal rights. Kashmir enjoys all the rights, privileges and resources, unlike subjugated people. They have right to elect govt., equal taxation, proportionate representation in Central Government with even some central ministers being from Kashmir. Kashmir gets higher share of tax revenues from center than other states. The only so called 'right' that's being denied to 'some' Kashmiris is that of sedition (asking for seperation from India). If this is subjugation, then what do you call Pakistan, where Army ruled over its people without any fair elections? Kashmir Valley has 4million population with 94% muslim residents. But, Jammu, which was part of the princely state of Kashmir, has 3million population with only 30% Muslims. All in all, there are 67% Muslims in Kashmir, and all of them don't want to seperate from india. National Conference, a party that has had solid support within Kashmir for almost three generations now, is staunchly pro-Indian. So, what it all comes down to is - a substantial number of people within Kashmir want to leave India in the name of their religion. This may or may not be majority (considering only 67% are muslims and substantial number of them being Shia). India can't risk a seperation of Kashmir by a slender majority, as it'll lead to large scale cleansing of Hindus in Kashmir and massacre of Muslims in rest India. So, only solution has to emerge in line of not changing territory, but providing other concessions.

Tony Singh | 12 years ago | Reply @Fahad Raza: "So Why you are wasting our time ? New Delhi" 1. Bashir called for a meeting. Ask him 2. On second thought, since your PM Mr. Gillani, the other day, talked of a 1000 years war on Kashmir, he wanted us Indians to calculate for him how many more years are left. 63 gone 937 to go. Keep on counting Mr. Fahad Raza and dream on.

vickram | 12 years ago | Reply These are certain unalterable facts. Live with it. --- Just like China considers Tibet as part of its country, India says Kashmir is part of its country. --- No referendum will ever take place. For referendum, the UN has to restore the status quo ante prevailed during 1947. But, after 1947, so much has changed. Pak has occupied part of Kashmir, Kashmiri pundits have been driven out of the valley, and there has been forced demographic changes. Since the pundits who have been driven out of valley are not going back due to fear, the conditions for referendum no longer hold good. So, referendum is not going to happen. ---Reg Kashmir, Pak is shouting a lone voice. World community has stopped reacting. No one supports Pak on its Kashmir stand anymore. Even China for that matter, because of Tibet issue. If China supports Pak on Kashmir, then it will be accused of double standards, having occupied Tibet forcefully. ---Now, the world community has started asking Pak this: when your own country is on the verge of implosion, why do you want Kashmir? How will you give justice to them when you can't meet aspirations of your own Balochis and Sindhis? Legitimate questions, don't give jingoistic answers to this. --- "This country for thousands of years has been the country of kisans. But, if necessary, maa kasam, they will rise in anger to defend every inch of its territory. - Sanjeev Kumar in Sholay ----Most of Indians (excepting Punjabis) don't care, in fact, don't want any relations with Pakistan. They wonder why India should normalise relations with Pak. What gain it has for India? (okay, a few less people will be plotting terror attacks against India, yes that is a gain!) --- Indians know that these peace talks are waste of time. But, these talks happen just to reinforce one thing. That, Kashmir has been, and will always be part of India. LIVE WITH IT !!!

sanjithmenon | 12 years ago | Reply Pakistan will teach us about human rights? Wow. The pink jersey cows are flying tonight!

Hedgefunder | 12 years ago | Reply @Ahmer Ali: What would you class as peaceful means for resolution of Kashmir??? Can Pakistan Govt or its Army willing to hold free and fair referendum??? The answer will be no! They are scared that Kashmiris may resort to either joining India or may demand complete Independance, which Pakistan really can not afford to do! The Kashmiris are not stupid people, they have seen, what has happened to Baluchs, and I am sure they are not that impressed!! In meantime checkout the progress the Kashmiris have made on Indian side, that is if one has an ability to view it with open mind!!!!

Hedgefunder | 12 years ago | Reply @anonymous: How can you follow UN Resolution, when Pak in their wisdom have given part of the territory in question to the Chinese????? I don't recall Pakistan asking UN or anybody about giving Part of Disputed Territory to China!!!

Arijit Sharma | 12 years ago | Reply @Ammad: " ... In fact, Hindus in general are very non-confrontational with majority Hindu races being non-martial. .... " Not so true. Hindus instinctively follow two basic teachings found in the Gita - 1) All human beings belong to the same family. 2) The soul can never be destroyed, only the body. Given any situation, Hindus will base their course of actions on the first principle and hence avoid confrontation and conflict. However, if the provocation is grave and it comes to question of Dharma ( as is right vs. wrong ), Hindus WILL take a course of action based on the second principle - i.e will fight and kill like crazy.

BruteForce | 12 years ago | Reply @sam: "*two wrongs cant make a right. *" Of course not. But, India being a Democracy has to appease the population not terrorize it. That is what is happening now. But, Pakistan is not a Democratic Country and the scope for violence is more. Kashmiris have the chance to ask the right questions and correct themselves by picking representatives by free and fair elections. As the Report above mentions, as well as the Report I've quoted does, there is no such luxury in Pakistan. I pointed out what Pakistanis should do is because that the Pakistani obsession in turn is creating trouble for the Indians. This obsession has to stop and might as well turn within its own borders, than some foreign land. If it has to be foreign land why not the Chinese brutalized region of Xinjiang, why just Kashmir?

PoorPeace! | 12 years ago | Reply @anonymous....Dear pakistani. Yes we are not peaceful we are not peaceful towards a country which has been sending terrorists since its birth. We will never tolerate that and become peaceful till it stops. Now do what you can. I dare you.

G. Din | 12 years ago | Reply @sam: "*two wrongs cant make a right. *" So, go ahead! Make "your" wrong right and then, we shall talk about "our" wrong! Whom are you kidding!

sam | 12 years ago | Reply @BruteForce: "I’d like to remind them that far more number of innocent Muslims are killed in Balochistan, in your own Country" *two wrongs cant make a right. *

sam | 12 years ago | Reply INDIA should leave kashmir along... can u imagine those poor kashmiris reaking of coconut oil if india gained control ;)

Ammad | 12 years ago | Reply @anonymous Your statement about Hindus is absurdly incorrect. In fact, Hindus in general are very non-confrontational with majority Hindu races being non-martial. At the same time, Indian leadership has proven to be extremely hegemonic in their dealings with neighbours. - "we do it cuz we can!" policy applies. Regarding Kashmir; no reasonable reporting entity across the world can claim that the Kashmiri's are happy with Indian occupation. At the same time, ground realities do no suggest they wish to be with Pakistan either! As far as the stance of both countries regarding dialogue is concerned, neither is making the effort to not achieve anything.

PoorPeace! | 12 years ago | Reply @anonymous....Dear pakistani. Yes we are not peaceful, we are not peaceful towards a country which has been sending terrorists since its birth. We will never tolerate that and become peaceful till it stops. Now do what you can. I dare you. Be educated. Read the conditions for the UN resolution. Google it. And then talk. Only spewing hatred cannot help you.

BruteForce | 12 years ago | Reply For all those who think Kashmiris want to be with Pakistan read this: http://in.news.yahoo.com/reap-democratic-dividend-kashmir-051233383.html For all those who only think of Kashmir and think they should support Kashmir because innocent Muslims are getting killed, I'd like to remind them that far more number of innocent Muslims are killed in Balochistan, in your own Country. When are you going to turn your attention to that! And, why aren't you protesting Chinese massacre of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang? I know why. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/balochistan-pakistans-secret-dirty-war

anonymous | 12 years ago | Reply @Arindom: There are UN resolutions regarding referendum in Kashmir. First India should implement those and then talk about anything else.

Ahmer Ali | 12 years ago | Reply Assalam-o-Allaikum Warahmatullah.63 years have been gone and Kashmir issue is as it is and the most importantly and especially from 1971 commencement of peace talks on Kashmir issue formally always on the end of peace talks every time only one statement has been given,id est,both countries' leaders emphasized to continue peace talks.This Indian leader S.M. Karishna's statement not only shows but proves that India is not willing to resolve Kashmir issue through peaceful means and talks.If it is so then please stop photo sessions and fashion shows on the name of peace talks to save the money and time because both countries are economically and financially poor and both countries' majority people are living under the poverty line and the money which is wasted on peace talks must be spent on the eradication of poverty and hunger in Pakistan and India.Kashmir is only the most burning and core issue between India-Pakistan to restore durable and permanent friendship on stable and solid grounds but Indian leaders' cold attitude is the biggest hindrance and hurdle in this process and instead of resolving Kashmir issue Indian leaders always have been using delaying tactics by saying this that first Pakistani leaders should have to stabilize Pakistan's and its nation's economical conditions then talk to India on Kashmir issue.

ashok sai | 12 years ago | Reply @Fahad Raza: So Why you are wasting our time ? New Delhi Contd... We are very much busy with constructing a safe house in Rawalpindi for our Highness Mr.Zawahiri.

Hindu | 12 years ago | Reply @anonymous: Look who's talking? Your countrymen are killing each other in the name of religion and the only thing that you could think about it pointing a finger at a Hindu? Shame on you

anonymous | 12 years ago | Reply India is not a peaceful country. They just want war and killing. Its in the nature of Hindus.

anonymous | 12 years ago | Reply Once again, Indian government's paid trolls are criticizing Pakistan instead of being more concerned about feeding India's poor and taking care of the independence movements in India. Its time India wakes up and holds free and fair plebiscite in Kashmir as per UN resolutions. India should stop violating human rights of their people and start respecting all their neighbors. India has bad relations with all its neighbors.

Arindom | 12 years ago | Reply @Adnan: How come you are silent on a referendum in Balochistan?

Cosmo | 12 years ago | Reply @Babloo: I think even if Indian gets to get the entire Pakistan, its is not going to part ways with Kashmir.

Babloo | 12 years ago | Reply The only way, Pakistan can join Kashmir is by joining India. For that Pak has to apply for joining India and Indian parliament has to approve that application. However, there is no chance Indian parliament will accept that application and Pakistan's request to join India will be politely rejected.

sundar | 12 years ago | Reply @Mastana Mahi: Your comment is leaching hatred. In short you want to continue the present state of Pakistan and her citizens for more decades to come. You want your economy to slide at the present rate and your people to suffer more. Just because both the parties start talking it doesn't mean problems are going to disappear overnight. But that should be a good beginning. Good luck to you.

Babloo | 12 years ago | Reply @Khan, Have you heard of the inviolable 'attot-ang' theory ? No part of India can break away, unless a majority of Indians ( including Kashmiris ) in a democratic vote, so decide. When East Pakistan/Bangladesh broke away from Pakistan, Mujiber Rehman's party had a majority in parliament of Pakistan and they decided to secede. So the majority of Pakistanis decided to secede. Similarly, if majority of any Indians ( Kashmiris, Oriyas etc ) have a majority in Parliament and vote to break up, they can.

Mastana Mahi | 12 years ago | Reply I personally believe this is not a time to talk to India at all. Pakistan Must keep its 63 years Old Stance on Kashmir and must back it up Politically and with Moral support. Pakistan Must concentrate first on its economy and pick Up these RAW Hindu terrorists who are operating in Balochistan and on Afghan Indian consulate. No Talks with India for now. When the environment is right for Pakistan only then we must start dialogue. Krisha Is barking because he has been given bone by the US and he and Indian Govt will sing the same song. So, Not talks for now and Whatever he or Govt of India blames Pakistan for , our media Must give them a breaking jaw reply as we did during Mumbai attacks. India is an enemy state for Paistan and we Must keep that status for India for now.

Sameer | 12 years ago | Reply Please also see the abysmal state of Azad Kashmir: http://tribune.com.pk/story/193849/kashmir-in-focus--part-1-wheres-the-azad-in-azad-jammu-and-kashmir/ Both countries have used Kashmir as a political pawn without regard for what the people of Kashmir want themselves. Both parts of Kashmir should be demilitarized, an electric fence should be built to separate the two, and people in both parts should live in freely, democratically elected states with a right to economic growth and education. Make the LOC the permanent border and stop wasting billions of each country's precious resources on this stupid mess.

Khan | 12 years ago | Reply @Paras Vikmani: What else do you want to talk about? If you don't want to solve the 'core' issue then the headlines will be the same no matter its 2011, 3011, or 5011. Why running from core issues just solve it for the sake of it so we can have better future in our part of the world. @Babloo: Its not about what Pakistan wants or doesn't want but what native people of Kashmir wants let them decide peacefully if majority of them want to live independently let them have their natural right. We (Pakistani) know that its not 1990s when they wanted to live with us and we don't expect it either now. Here is a link for you guys from an Indian author if you still think its Pakistan meddling only http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2010/aug/14/silence-over-kashmir-conflict

M.Shahid Kamal | 12 years ago | Reply If the relationship between two countries improves and we live as good neighbours the dispute of Kashmir will become irrelevant. Look at Europe which has become border free.If both countries are stuck on Kashmir issues no progress will be made in another sixty years. Also because it is not possible for both the governments to change thier position on it. What should be done then?. Let's try to improve relations through trade, removing traveling restrictions, encouraging people to find educational and job oppurtunities, exchange of cultural/sports activities and journals/books, removing troops from borders. All these steps will bring people togather and wash the ill efects and hatred cused for each other as a result of sixty years of propaganda war fare.After all we all were Indians just sixty yars before and have shared ties for thosands of years.It is naive to believe that either country will take an u-turn overnigh from thier long held positions.

An Indian! | 12 years ago | Reply Hello, What you say man? If kashmiris don't like to be part of india then why they are highly accepting indian democracy.....it shows in every election there is huge voting and there is almost more than 90 % people wants to part of india only (sources says many times observed)..then how can you say that? Listen whoever rule indian govt. they will highly appreciate if more than 50% kashmiris want to be part of pakistan then diffinitly indian govt. will take appropriate action to kashmir issue but there is nothing like that....where are you guys? where the world going on........and see your people and places how terribly killing your people as well as others.....if you guys raise hands for stop these all from scratch then i am sure very soon pakistan will develop all the ways....hope you getting my point....else you know very well what's the position holds pakistan in this world....

delh_se | 12 years ago | Reply @Adnan: Why should we talk about Kashmir with Pakistan, when Pakistan is not ready to let go off Pakistan Occupied Kashmir ? The independence of India and Pakistan was on teh accord that none of the country will forcefully try to annex a princely state. and that the prince / king / ruler of each state wil have right to choose which country he wants to join. Jinnah broke this truce when he asked Gracy to attack and capture kashmir. This is when Prince of Kashmir handed over Kashmir to India. So it is not India who has captured Kashmir but it is Pakistan who is wrongfully occupying Kashmir. Get your history facts straight. Why should we held referendum for our own piece of land. Do you have courage to held similar referrundum for Balochistan ? If you start holding such referrundum in Pakistan you will surely be broken into micro territories. So stop making non realistic expectation, be real and forget Kashmir start getting your education and other institutions straight.

rohit | 12 years ago | Reply Kashmir will never give up Kashmir, Pakistan will never give up its demand for the same. Therefore deadlock

Babloo | 12 years ago | Reply Chapter 9, verse 11 : Kashmir should be made part of Pakistan even if East Pakistan is lost. Chapter 9 Verse 13 : Kashmir should be made part of Pakistan even if West Pakistan is lost.

ashwin | 12 years ago | Reply Krishna is not coming to Pakistan.Pakistan wants to talk about Kashmir.India wants justice for it's citizens.

Paras Vikmani | 12 years ago | Reply When Pakistan only wants to talk Kashmir which India is not interested, then what can be expected?

Babloo | 12 years ago | Reply India should tell Pakistan to next expect a single inch of Indian territory , Kashmir or not and get in writing that PAKISTAN UNDERSTANDS WHAT iNDIA IS SAYING.

Adnan | 12 years ago | Reply What about 'state terrorism'? Are we going to talk about that and how the Indians have terrorised, repressed and subjugated the Kashmiri people for the last 64 years? More hot air and time-wasting because they are insincere in solving the Kashmir dispute.India: the world's biggest democratic farce! If they are so true to their democratic ideals, why do they not hold a referendum in Kashmir and allow the Kashmiri people to decide their own future? Why? Because they are scared of the result. They know that the Kashmiris do not want to be part of India but the Indians do not have the courage to accept this and to adopt a peaceful solution. They think that by wasting time and by holding fruitless talks with Pakistan the problem will go away. But time is against them and the Kashmiri people will, God willing, prevail.

san | 12 years ago | Reply then why you wasting our time..dont waste your public money on trip..stay at home..

Fahad Raza | 12 years ago | Reply So Why you are wasting our time ? New Delhi

M.Shahid Kamal | 12 years ago | Reply It is in best interest that relationship improves between two contries. Misunderstanding will remove if people from both sides are allowed to meet each other .As a first step visa restriction should be abolished for any one aged above fifty on both sides.It will also built pressure on both countries goverments to come close and work togather.

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