2008 Mumbai attacks: Pakistani panelists stopped from cross-questioning Indian officials

Published: March 20, 2012

India refuses to allow cross-examination of the four witnesses, commission will only record their statements. PHOTO: AFP/FILE

LAHORE: An eight-member panel  who was in India to record statements of the Indian officials who had interviewed Ajmal Kasab and conducted autopsy of the gunmen killed in the terror attack has complained that Indian authorities did not allow them to cross-question.

A member of the panel, while talking to The Express Tribune confirmed that the panel had completed recording statements of the Indian officials including the Chief investigative officer who had questioned Ajmal Kasab and two doctors who had conducted autopsy on eight of his accomplices.

Over 160 people were killed and many more injured when 10 gunmen rampaged through the streets of Mumbai in November 2008 – including the Taj Mahal Palace hotel. India had blamed the Pakistan based charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa( JuD), and its militant wing Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).

A member of panel while talking to The Express Tribune complained that despite being given the mandate, the defence as well as the prosecution lawyers were stopped by the Chief Metropolitan Magistrate (Judicial Commission) from cross-examining the Chief Investigator, lady magistrate and doctors who had recorded statements of Ajmal Kasab and conducted the autopsy of those who had been killed during attacks respectively.

When the Pakistani team insisted that it be given the chance, Indian officials angrily replied that the panel had no such mandate despite the fact the Chief Metropolitan Magistrate appointed as Judicial Commission by the Chief Justice of Mumbai High Court for recording the evidence in compliance to the order of Anti Terrorism Court No1 Rawalpindi in his order had allowed to the defence lawyers as well prosecutors to cross examine.

Another panel member said that proceedings had been completed in only two days.

The panel is due to leave India on Wednesday because the delay in flight schedules to Pakistan.

Documents of proceedings, including statements of the Chief Investigator, Lady Magistrate and two doctors will be sent to Pakistan by the Indian government through formal diplomatic channel, sources familiar with the matter further revealed.

Reader Comments (58)

  • Roflcopter
    Mar 20, 2012 - 12:20AM

    Why am I not surprised? We should stop wasting time with indians and let them keep having nightmares about ISI and LeT.

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  • Hasan
    Mar 20, 2012 - 12:23AM

    Fine.

    So Islamabad now has full entitlement to throw all Hindustani conspiracy claims out of the window whenever the issue arises again. If these idiots don’t even offer the panel the information required to complete the full investigation, why in the world are we wasting our time giving this whole debacle any attention?

    H

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  • Revo
    Mar 20, 2012 - 12:33AM

    Indians drama , and thus indians have the right to reject pakistans decision

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  • shazada zahid mahmoud malik loan
    Mar 20, 2012 - 12:36AM

    If that is the attitude it may appear that the Indians have something to hide and may have carried out the attack themselves – it seems more plausible scenario. The Indians have learned many tricks from their friends – the Zionists of illegal entity. To get to the bottom of things it is important that everyone is given access to ascertain who was really responsible – Zardari may also be complicit given his statement at the time – to remind the readers this is what he said: “the non-state actors” carried out the attack.

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  • Deepwater
    Mar 20, 2012 - 12:43AM

    The Pakistani government should not waste its limited resources sending such teams to India. Instead, they should stay at home and question the masterminds of the 26/11 attacks who live under their very noses. They are wasting their time and money pretending to be earnest about this investigation when the whole world knows it is a sham.

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  • Rafaqat
    Mar 20, 2012 - 1:33AM

    Indians are undermining their claims of wanting justice for mumbai attacks. They are more interested in using the incident for continuous diplomatic pressure against Pakistan rather than any desire for real justice. As shahid afridi said, big country with a small heart.

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  • Wonderful
    Mar 20, 2012 - 2:20AM

    How many times has a wife to marry – USA, China. Russia (defeated by Pakistan?), Iran, KSA, etc to have a true love?

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 20, 2012 - 2:46AM

    Why would India allow Pakistani official to do cross examination ? Are Pakistani officials in India fighting a case or collecting statement ? Most dumb Pakistanis here will clap hands and start pointing that India has something to hide, but will not understand a clear fact that Pakistani official has no “right” in any legal system to “cross examine” without setting up official judicial environment. No lawyers anywhere in world can carry any judicial proceedings on any other countries soil unless ( if at all possible ) a former acceptance by host country to allow so. Pakistan has never learned ti play by rules, it is like one of those ugly neighbors who just like to pick on neighbors for anything whether the issue is right or wrong. Sorry cry babies, better luck next time. As such India does not expect any resolution by Pakistani after all this drama.

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 20, 2012 - 2:50AM

    @Roflcopter: You are one wonderful and dedicated Pakistani. You make yourself look like the captain who will sink with his ship but will not agree that the ship has a hole and it needs to get repaired. Happy sinking
    @Hassan: You should re-read the article and understand what the Pakistani prosecuters are complaining about, they are allowed to collect all information but ofcourse not allowed to cross examine, which never happens in any country for your kind information.

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  • Cautious
    Mar 20, 2012 - 2:50AM

    India should go out of it’s way to respond to any reasonable request made by the Pakistanis – anything short of that will be used by them as justification for their continuing to stonewall this issue. Both sides need to grow up – this issue is too important to let petty squabbling derail it.

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 20, 2012 - 2:55AM

    @Rafaqat: How much evidence you need to prove your guys were behind attack ? Pakistan is not looking for proof in India, it just came to India with a hope to find a hole which they can exploit to turn the case. It is easy to play with memory of people after gap of three years. This is what they hoped. Any body who is little educated and is aware of how lawyers work will know this. Pakistan just wanted this excuse to formally rest the case in favor of the terrorists. Please feel free to celebrate when these guys get released. But be warned enemy of India will not always remain friend of Pakistan. What you sow , so you shall reap. You old alliances towards taliban is showing it colors, do you really want to add up the likes of Mumbai terrorists too ?Recommend

  • Mar 20, 2012 - 3:03AM

    Indians why not lets just disclose the real drama??

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  • Mar 20, 2012 - 3:08AM

    Indians with double-standards …. i thought u really wanted to do some productive work for the fact findings and elimination of terrorism, Gov. of Pakistan shouldn’t waste its time and money on such hypocrites

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  • Thomas
    Mar 20, 2012 - 3:09AM

    @Rafaqat:

    The evidence was given to the Pakistanis. They have no authority to cross examine indian investigators. You investigate the evidence, not try to get the secret how India got the information, these pakistanis are so tricky. Their intention is to figure out how Indians figured out their cladstene ways,so they can fine tune their trechery, that is what they are interested in. The investigators presented the evidence, they are not criminals to be investated and cross examined by the Pakistanis. Pakistani comenters from this forum have no clue what they are talking about.

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  • Babloo
    Mar 20, 2012 - 3:21AM

    Pakistani panelists were allowed every thing that was agreed upon. This visit was to record the statements of Indian judicial officials, so that those statements can be used at the trial in Pakistan. The visit was not to re-examine the witnesses and every one was clear about that before the visit.

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  • Roflcopter
    Mar 20, 2012 - 4:30AM

    @Balochi liberal, the ship is sinking? hehe keep dreaming

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  • Zeta
    Mar 20, 2012 - 5:05AM

    @Balochi liberal:
    Here comes the fake balochi who is busted by simply his nick. All the learned will know what i am talking about

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  • Rafaqat
    Mar 20, 2012 - 5:42AM

    @Balochi liberal:

    Simply speaking, Pakistan needs as much evidence as required for a conviction. We already have people like Zaki-ur-rehman lakhvi in our prison. Now thats a pretty big fish. So either you give us the evidence we need to keep them in prison or they will walk away because your country’s lack of co-operation meant that they cant be kept in jail indefinitely without any supporting evidence.

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  • SKChadha
    Mar 20, 2012 - 5:49AM

    For India, the State and Non-state actors (whatever you call them) are accomplice to the crime committed by ten terrorists on Indian soil. The International community desire Pakistan to take action against Mumbai carnage culprits themselves or hand them over to the country where crime against humanity is committed. Pakistan is shielding the culprits and hence is accomplice to the crime. As such, the judicial commission (as you call the visiting Pakistani officials) is allowed access considering them ‘representative of accomplice in crime who is on parole’. The access to Indian judicial records is open and is provided to accused or his accomplices in crime. This is only for their defense before Indian Courts or for International community. I hope this explains the right position.

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  • MarkH
    Mar 20, 2012 - 5:49AM

    People don’t seem to get what the situation really is. To use a courtroom analogy, Pakistan is the defendant. It’s not there to help the prosecutor (India). It’s there to find a way to get out of the accusation. They’re trying to harm the prosecutors case against them. It also seems like people believe they went there to actually help investigate. It’ just too bad the required areas to investigate for something productive is in Pakistan itself. So that’s not the case either.
    They’re not there to mutually work for some greater good.

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  • Indian
    Mar 20, 2012 - 6:35AM

    @Revo:
    @Hasan:
    @Roflcopter:
    next time it will be a suicidal for Indian govt. for not attacking pakistan in such cases.

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  • Ravish
    Mar 20, 2012 - 7:35AM

    ROFL…..Why would India would be dumb enough to allow corss examination of witnesses? No country in the world would allow that. We have submitted the evidence to the visting commission, and we feel that is enough to implicate the perpetrators.

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  • Aarvey,india
    Mar 20, 2012 - 7:52AM

    @Balochi liberal: Absolutely agree with you Balochi liberal. People like Roflcopter are probably are on the pay of the ISI/ LeT/ JuD combine just as you and me would probably be on the payroll of RAW/CIA/ Mossad. He doesn’t want to understand that India and the whole world want to see the perpetrators of 26/11 brought to justice. As MarkH remarked in his comment that Pakistan here is the defendant and they are in India to only record the testimonies , not to cross examine. It’s very convenient for Pakistan to put the blame on India and parrot ” we do not have sufficient evidence” just as they have been accusing India of interference in Balochistan but have not been able to provide a shred of evidence so far.

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  • Aarvey,india
    Mar 20, 2012 - 7:57AM

    @Roflcopter:
    Has you limited intelligence not told you which ship is sinking?

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  • Zeta
    Mar 20, 2012 - 8:01AM

    @Indian:
    good luck trying. you tried in 99, 2002 too only to pull your million plus troops back from the border after suffering casualties without a bullet being fired .

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  • Mar 20, 2012 - 8:08AM

    How about this deal from India to Pakistan: Water in return for putting Terrorists behind bars?

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  • Mar 20, 2012 - 8:12AM

    @Roflcopter:

    I dont think its the Indians who fear LeT and ISI now, its the Pakistanis themselves.

    No major Terror attack has happened since a long time in India, while they are happening every week in Pakistan.

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 20, 2012 - 9:15AM

    @Pakistan politics: Oh are you really serious about solving the case, how about let Indian team collect voice samples, just voice samples, no cross examination , nothing ……just voice samples……let the world see how serious you really are!!

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  • Indian
    Mar 20, 2012 - 9:18AM

    if indians want a long standing peace, it has to negotiate with the isi and the army..this nonsense with the govt. of pak which doesnt have much of a standing in pakistan, will not be of much help…its difficult, coz pakistan has been a nation in the past, known for its treacherousness, and that must be taken into account before taking the final plunges.

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  • vasan
    Mar 20, 2012 - 10:06AM

    I thought the pakistani duplicity is again exposed. They have agreed as an arrangement between the countries to record the statement of witnesses and that only. Where is the issue of cross examination coming in? ON second thoughts,they rake it up to delay the issue of prosecuting the bast…ds again, At the end, (why, even now) Pakistanis are dearly paying for breeding snakes, The pitiable part is that they dont even realise that. They use the sufferings ie more than 25000 deaths only to gain world sympathy and more USD. Fortunately there are no takers in the rest of the world for such convoluted logic, incl their deeper than ocean friend China

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  • Zaid Hamid the 2nd.
    Mar 20, 2012 - 4:04PM

    We Pakistanis will do what we will. Who are you to question? We can even eat a cricket ball while playing a game in full media glare and you talk of breaking rules while collecting info! How very childish of you!!!

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  • Fake Balochi
    Mar 20, 2012 - 5:39PM

    @Balochi liberal:
    You dont need to be scared…. dont prentend to be a balouch… the agreement was that they will be allowed to cross question… do your research before jumping to conclusions

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  • Rafaqat
    Mar 21, 2012 - 12:00AM

    You just have to love the indian trolls on ET and other english news websites from Pakistan. It would be nice to have a discussion amongst Pakistanis for a change. But no, the indians must gatecrash every discussion. They go to some lengths to do this, such as our “Balochliberal” from india :-)

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  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 1:22AM

    @Balochi liberal:

    “Why would India allow Pakistani official to do cross examination ? …. Pakistan has never learned ti play by rules, it is like one of those ugly neighbors who just like to pick on neighbors for anything whether the issue is right or wrong. Sorry cry babies, better luck next time. As such India does not expect any resolution by Pakistani after all this drama.”

    LOL. When did India appointed “Balochi liberal” as her spokesperson. Didn’t India deny any involvement in the Balochistan hoo-ha?Recommend

  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 1:32AM

    @Balochi liberal:
    “@Roflcopter: You are one wonderful and dedicated Pakistani. You make yourself look like the captain who will sink with his ship but will not agree that the ship has a hole and it needs to get repaired. Happy sinking”

    Any person having some dignity left would do the same – and not play in the hands of enemy. You need some real education, as any dedicated captain will find the hole and get it repaired instantly. Your master’s wishes will never be realized.Recommend

  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 1:52AM

    @MarkH:
    “People don’t seem to get what the situation really is. To use a courtroom analogy, Pakistan is the defendant. It’s not there to help the prosecutor (India). It’s there to find a way to get out of the accusation. They’re trying to harm the prosecutors case against them.”

    IS THAT UNFAIR? Does it not happen in Western and American courts? Do they not allow the defense to carry cross-questioning and find the loop-holes in the prosecution? If this thing is right in European and American courts, why it is so wrong and immoral in case of Pakistan? Does the Pakistani courts not work under some laws and procedures and rather on the Indian whims. We have the similar laws and procedures to declare someone guilty beyond doubt as in India and anywhere else. The defense cannot be deprived of their right to cross-questioning to find out the real truth.Recommend

  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 2:23AM

    @BruteForce:
    *”No major Terror attack has happened since a long time in India, while they are happening every week in Pakistan.”

    Need no genius to find out who is behind these attacks happening in Pakistan – but for your help, it is the Indian RAW using their stooges in Pakistan – which killed 35,000 innocent Pakistanis. A well known proverb in Pakistan is “baghal main churri, monh pay raam raam”. Now what, ISI has gone into coma or India has stopped staging such acts.Recommend

  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 2:37AM

    @Balochi liberal:
    “Oh are you really serious about solving the case, how about let Indian team collect voice samples, just voice samples, no cross examination , nothing ……just voice samples……let the world see how serious you really are!!”

    GOI should formally request through proper channels, rather than doing propaganda using their stooges, and GOP will not refuse for sure. However, the voice samples are not like finger prints or DNA matching and are not admissible in courts as conclusive evidence. By the way, I would ask you to stop posturing as a Baloch. This way, you will have more respect in this forum.Recommend

  • Akash
    Mar 21, 2012 - 3:12AM

    I don’t know what the arrangement was but we in India for sure do believe Pakistan will do nothing to bring the culprits to book. These are just hogwash and excuses. They don’t even need to come here to record statements if they are sincere. India has given enough evidence, voice samples are in present in Pakistan or they can provide voice samples to India and they can do investigations in Pakistan. If they were sincere criminals would be behind bars.

    But then we all know how competent they are. They need to provide justice to their victims first and they are failing miserably there too.
    At the end of the day if they think harboring these elements or talking to ‘good’ talibans is in Pakistan’s interest then they are going down the drain (amply supported right wing jokers).

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  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 3:56AM

    @vasan:
    “I thought the pakistani duplicity is again exposed. They have agreed as an arrangement between the countries to record the statement of witnesses and that only. Where is the issue of cross examination coming in?”

    I am sure Indian duplicity is exposed by not allowing the judicial commission to cross examine the witnesses. Nowhere in this world; not in Pakistan, nor in Europe or America, and not even in Africa; the accused is punished only on the statements given by the police officers or the prosecution. It is the defenders universal right to cross question the accuser and the witnesses to prove his innocence. By denying the defenders their legal right, in this case Hafiz Saeed et.al. through their legal counsel, India has proved she is not serious in punishing the culprits – might be something fishy to hide – but use this case as propaganda tool to defame Pakistan when the courts acquit the accused in the absence of a proof beyond doubt.Recommend

  • O B Server
    Mar 21, 2012 - 6:52AM

    @Indian

    (1) Do not wish for India to attack Pakistan. Pakistan has not got the nuclear bombs as decoration pieces. Pakistanis are fatalistic enough to use them.They are not afraid to commit harakiri , suicides etc for ‘shahadat’ as evidenced by almost daily occurrences.So please PRAY FOR PEACE that sanity shall prevail on both sides.

    (!) Do not forget Indian Treachery in Kashmir. Read about Nehru’s promise to hold plibiscite in Jammu and Kashmir. Almost hundred thousand Kashmiris have died to exercise their right to decide their own fate. With the prevailing situation they may not join Pakistan but go for Independence or even stay within Indian Union, but it will clear the biggest bone of contention between the two Nations..

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  • vasan
    Mar 21, 2012 - 7:33AM

    Truthseeker : I dont believe what u say. If it is true, I think RAW is doing a wonderful job in the oft quoted “national interest:

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  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 9:51AM

    @Indian:
    “coz pakistan has been a nation in the past, known for its treacherousness…”

    ET has been very kind especially with the Indian bloc – and even publish comments
    blatantly insulting the whole nation as the one of yours – and does not publish our comments which have the slightest hint of mockery based on facts and history, let alone insult. I am personally a witness on many occasions when I tried to respond in kind and my comments didn’t get through. So I am not saying anything but your comment is enough to show your level.

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  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 9:53AM

    @Indian:
    “next time it will be a suicidal for Indian govt. for not attacking pakistan in such cases.”

    Try that again, but will you find the courage? We are waiting. Many accounts needs to be settled.

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  • Harry Stone
    Mar 21, 2012 - 9:55AM

    This seems more like a PAK mission to assess where future terrorist attack can be improved. To think PAK will actually do something to prevent future attacks is folly of the first order.

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  • Truth Seeker
    Mar 21, 2012 - 11:05AM

    @Harry Stone:
    *”This seems more like a PAK mission to assess where future terrorist attack can be improved. To think PAK will actually do something to prevent future attacks is folly of the first order.”

    Your mindset is the real evil of the first order. The whole world has so badly suffered from your evil designs aka “The New World Order”.

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  • Tony Singh
    Mar 21, 2012 - 12:07PM

    @O B Server:
    Next time you wont get opportunity to use them! Better shove them where the sun never shines!!

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  • Nasir
    Mar 21, 2012 - 1:14PM

    @Balochi liberal:
    Just an Indian hiding himself in Balochi name…

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  • Lobster
    Mar 21, 2012 - 3:37PM

    Now look at the attitude of Indian commentators, instead of criticizing a wrong act, they are trying to stop justice to be done

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  • Naz
    Mar 21, 2012 - 3:50PM

    SImple facts… let pakistan release these folks …
    Send Mossad type forces into Pakistan and eliminate the trouble makers….terror bosses.
    Blame it back on US or some local group…. There are awyways tons of terror groups inside pakistan Teror university….

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  • vasan
    Mar 21, 2012 - 4:47PM

    Truth seeker :
    “I am sure Indian duplicity is exposed by not allowing the judicial commission to cross examine the witnesses. ”
    Pl read your Interior minister’s interview in Jan. The judicial commission’s mandate is to interview the investigating officer. How can u go beyond the agreed terms during the visit of the commission. This is called shifting the goal post or duplicity. And no prizes for guessing who has done it.
    The rest of your comment is irrelevant to this news as it is in the common legal procedures of India as well.Recommend

  • Hari Karnani
    Mar 21, 2012 - 5:21PM

    Would the Pakistan Govt. (ISI or Pak armed forces; whoever has the control on such affairs) allow an Indian judicial team to question and cross examine the Pak police officers who have investigated Lakhvi and company ?

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  • Bhindian
    Mar 21, 2012 - 9:41PM

    lol raging indians here are funny

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 21, 2012 - 10:11PM

    @Truth Seeker:
    @Nasir: if you think that saying something honestly about wrong doing of my government ( atleast for now ) makes me a non baloch, then it is completely your own opinion. I am proud balochi by birth, blood and by values. You have freedom to be opinionated. And I do not care about respect in the forum. It is pretty common for you to call anyone Indian who says anything against Pakistan.

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  • Hasan
    Mar 21, 2012 - 10:19PM

    From reading the comments, several things seem clear to me:

    the Pakistani panel made a reasonable request as part of a sincere attempt to help Hindustan clean up its own mess, and yet this request was turned down with zero explanation as to why
    Hindustani commentators seem to think that posting under multiple accounts with english names like ‘Mark’ and ‘Thomas’ will further their credentials, but they all seem confused by the rather straightforward purpose of this panel, and the subsequent confusion (and of course suspicion) that emerged from Hindustan’s insecure obstinacy
    ET is doing a sterling job in stifling the true opinion of the Pakistani readers – had our views been aired unfettered and without censorship, these Hindustanis would most likely be given a rude awakening as to how much – or how little – we really care for their internal terror issues, their hypocritical mudslinging, or their laughably impotent threats.

    Hasan

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 21, 2012 - 10:19PM

    @Fake Balochi: And who said that there was such agreement ? The very same set of lawyers who are ferociously defending terrorists ?

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 21, 2012 - 10:43PM

    @Hasan: “rude awakening as to how much – or how little – we really care for their internal terror issues,their hypocritical mudslinging, or their laughably impotent threats. “………………There is so much wrong in that one sentence and yet it precisely projects the typical Pakistani mentality. Once again by your words it is proven how impossible, Pakistanis are. So let us correct your sentence. Rude awakening ??….you are being sarcastic right ? …… not just India but the whole world is aware of how little you value people’s life and how much you support barbaric movements like Jihad. “Laughably impotent threat”…..only people who are immune to threats are one who always live under constant threat like we are under our own preserved assets and two who do not have anything to loose, which is true in our case, we dont have any infrastructure or any institution to save if India really attacks. Infact they will truly face more damage since they have many things to loose. Recommend

  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 22, 2012 - 3:12AM

    @Bhindian: “lol raging indians here are funny”….. I am sure you will laugh louder when terrorists repeat the Mumbai massacre in your city……but I know you will over whelmingly without any proof and even if TTP says “we did it” , claim that India and RAW did it. Nobody expects anything better from likes of you. You and your likes have become daily joke in every global media.

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