But such has not been the case of India-Pakistan track-II that are largely tied up with track-I. In most cases, these turn out to be gatherings of retired diplomats and military officers with a sprinkling of journalists or politicians. Broadly speaking, there are two types of track II — those in which we can hear some alternative views within a country team, and then the more high-tech ones dominated by military personnel and diplomats. The tendency in both cases is to cling tightly to the official perspective and not think outside the box. The outcome is in the form of a joint statement in which both delegations insist upon their governments to pave the way for peace. Sadly, that never happens. These gatherings are considered a way to have a sneak peak into what the other side is thinking, visit each other’s countries or some exotic destinations and have a three-four days’ fully paid holiday during which one gets a chance to meet friends.
So, this track-II wasn’t different either. There were two issues with this initiative. First, it never aimed to do much since the track-II event was meant as an advertisement for one of the new think tanks. Second, most of the people invited from the other side were either retired Congress leaders or journalists who critically evaluate the new BJP government. This does not necessarily mean being totally opposed to the government but someone close to the new dispensation would provide a different perspective. So, what we probably had at the end was a lot of conversation on the threat of terrorism, the need to solve unresolved disputes, and hope for improving trade and bilateral ties in general, with no reference to any timeline or a road map.
Perhaps, there is no need for a road map because both sides have yet again lost the passion with which they thought of peace with each other. There are three possible scenarios. The first and ideal scenario is that things will begin to improve slowly. Second, given our limitations, the best case may be that life goes on as usual with no major gains but no losses either.
In this situation, we may not even see trade take off, which is considered a possible method for improving ties. I remember listening to the Jinnah Fellow at Oxford University, Dr Ishtiaq Ahmed, at a conference in Oxford he had excellently organised. In the presence of many of our good soldiers sitting in the conference room, he drew attention towards the inevitability of trade with India and that being a possible game-changer. But the question is, should we still be hopeful or have we missed the trade bus? It would have made more sense had we done trade for the sake of trade and not for the sake of peace. The latter makes trade as a bargaining chip rather than creating a win-win situation for both sides. It is much more possible that now we will continue to talk trade but not have a major breakthrough. The initiative is already hijacked by our bilateral hostilities and mindsets. India is wary of desiring better trade relations to eventually get access to Afghanistan, and we are more passionate than ever to block that possibility.
A forward movement in trade requires some confidence in each other. It requires greater confidence building which is not likely to happen in the near future. While Modi tries to anchor himself in Delhi, Nawaz Sharif’s government seems to become unstable with the environment getting more hostile. The grapevine has begun to whisper September/October as the government’s last months, which may not actually be the case. However, the fact that this is being said does not give a foreign government any confidence. Moreover, the issue now is that with the Sharif government overly concentrating on the Tahirul Qadri phenomenon and also mishandling it in the process, would it have time to establish a line of communication inside Narendra Modi’s cabal and vice versa?
The second and most extreme scenario is a conflict brewing in the subcontinent due to some crisis in India. The fact that leaders of militant outfits are roaming freely and setting foreign policy agenda for the government does not encourage many. Modi’s government walks a tight rope where it ought to appreciate the need to focus on improving communal relations in the country which militant non-state actors could manipulate to their advantage. All it needs is a few sparks for someone to light a fire out of it. An additional factor this time is that with the urge to save his reputation as the tough man of politics, Modi may not even give himself time to look at veracity of claims presented to him, in case something untoward happens. Thus, a major fire breaking out between the two neighbours is a scenario which is on people’s minds and is a worrying possibility.
A friend recently asked me about how I saw India-Pakistan relations in the coming years. The more I thought about it, the only thing I wished for was for the relations to get frozen in time so when we wake up after a few years, we may be able to pick up the threads again and not have destroyed each other by design or default. We may have lost the key to find stable peace. All we have are numerous negotiating tracks filled up with people with little ability to think long term.
Published in The Express Tribune, June 19th, 2014.
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COMMENTS (47)
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@Rakib: I replied to Mr. Jahangir Chauhan that while they speak a lot about Hindu communalists burning India but continues to remain mum on wrongs of their own Muslim communalist.
While it is worthwhile to be remembered that while as an Indian it is my duty to criticize & remain vigilante about Hindu chauvanists more than Pakistan's muslim chauvanists & so do many Indian centrists & leftists ,especially those of Hindu backgrounds & they remain more concerened about INDIAN MINORITIES than Pakistan's Minorities , but when I visit Pakistani newspapers , why is it that Journalists & commentators here are concerened about "Secularism in India" than "Secularism in Pakistan" , more concern about "Indian muslims" than "Pakistani non-muslims" ...If you are a vigilante person yourself you will know of that.
Iam no supporter of Arya samaj , whose Shuddhi movement had communal flavour , but then Sir by giving a biased account of Arya Samaj's Shuddhi movement being bad & Tablighi Jammat being only a reactionary shows sir , your own position on communal-secular divide................That also explains why the good Muslim Pakistan does not have any "sizeable minority " & the bad Hindu India still has some 18-20%.
And above all it also shows that why self-confessed liberal Pakistainis lack the zeal of self-confessed seculars amongst Indians (mostly Hindus) as they are always ready to defend & justify "the glories of Islam " using the criticisms that we do of our society , rather than expose the "communal follies , supremacisms , forced conversions"......
On Arya Samaj thing , I'll tell you all from Gandhi , Nehru & Indian leftists criticized it but btw how many from liberal-Muslims opposed Tablighi Jamaat . I do not read about Jinnah& party doing that .NOONE
CONCLUSION :Sir ,Secularism is not a one-sided principle..Either "vigilantes" from activities follow it or it is as good as it never exits
@Rakib: I replied to Mr. Jahangir Chauhan that while they speak a lot about Hindu communalists burning India but continues to remain mum on wrongs of their own Muslim communalist.
While it is worthwhile to be remembered that while as an Indian it is my duty to criticize & remain vigilante about Hindu chauvanists more than Pakistan's muslim chauvanists & so do many Indian centrists & leftists ,especially those of Hindu backgrounds & they remain more concerened about INDIAN MINORITIES than Pakistan's Minorities , but when I visit Pakistani newspapers , why is it that Journalists & commentators here are concerened about "Secularism in India" than "Secularism in Pakistan" , more concern about "Indian muslims" than "Pakistani non-muslims" ...If you are a vigilante person yourself you will know of that.
Iam no supporter of Arya samaj , whose Shuddhi movement had communal flavour , but then Sir by giving a biased account of Arya Samaj's Shuddhi movement being bad & Tablighi Jammat being only a reactionary shows sir , your own position on communal-secular divide................That also explains why the good Muslim Pakistan does not have any "sizeable minority " & the bad Hindu India still has some 18-20%.
And above all it also shows that why self-confessed liberal Pakistainis lack the zeal of self-confessed seculars amongst Indians (mostly Hindus) as they are always ready to defend & justify "the glories of Islam " using the criticisms that we do of our society , rather than expose the "communal follies , supremacisms , forced conversions"......
CONCLUSION :Secularism is not a one-sided principle..Either "vigilantes" from activities follow it or it is as good as it never exits
@J T: @Ajay: Thank you. Facts are stranger than fiction;and opinions are hackneyed.Consider this: around the time of "shuddhi"controversy, on 26th September 1921 a British Judge began the trial,at Khalikdina Hall Karachi, of eminent men for sedition. The case was they were inciting mobs to support Turkey's Caliphate. Among others there were Ali brothers: Maulana Mohammed Ali & Shaukat Ali & high pontiff of the Hindus:Jagadguru Shankaracharya of Shringeri (Mysore), arrested & tried. A Hindu monk of ancient Order fighting the Empire for the Caliph at Turkey. That too was an India.
@nadeem: I agree with you.Question is, How long to become 'captive Audience' By the way, I am a Marathi braught up in Delhi, from my childhood, I have grown up with Staunch Punjabis, who migrated mostly from Pakistan( After partition) I have the highest regard for them.They are Brave,Well cultured, Hard working, and Jovial.I have following observations:- 1.They are not 'Fanatic Religious'. They are the only community who have adapted themselves. 2.They are well cultured. 3.Are honest to the core. Why this does not apply to Pakistani Punjabis? Can a True Punjabi stand up to this Army-ISI nexus with their false egos destroying the region, and its progress?
@Rakib: As perceptive as ever. I may not agree with your views at times but they always make for interesting and often enlightening reading.
@Pandu: I agree. With such raw comments being allowed the ET grows in our esteem. At least we can speak our heart out. Thanks moderator. We appreciate.
Ch. Allah Daad are you there, sir ?. Please say something.
@Rakib: Thank you for adding to the Truth by bringing out these interesting piece from History. Aditya Chauhan analyzed the truth and you added to it.
I believe that whichever side the truth favors, it is important to bring out the Truth so that we can see for ourselves the role we played in the past and take lessons from it.
@antanu: "people questioning my loyalty are in fact a pro war …hate mongers. I believe in AMAN KI ASHA. ." There is no antithetical between the two. You can keep both - your real citizenship and Aman ki Asha.
@3rdRockFromTheSun: "Can Pakistan afford the status quo?" Au contraire, it is what justifies its existence! It would feel lost if that were to change.
@Aditya Singh Chauhan: Well said!
@Indian: @vasan: May be they took the cue from the movie. I didn't know about the movie. It truly lifted my spirits. If they could pull it off in an Indian city with cheek-by-jowl traffic at any time of the day, it says a lot about Indians- that they can set aside everything if they understand the need to do so.
Interacting with many Indians and they make it clear that they are not interested in peace or any meaningful relation with Pakistan. They are much more firmer believer in TNT and now become almost TNT Takfiri.IMHO, both sovereign nations actually do have no common interest and should just freeze all realtions and go theie own ways. Since Indians are looking Eastward, Pakistan should look Westward where it has cultural and ancestral roots. K problem will never be solved unless Pakistan offer to accept all the Muslims of region as its own ideological citizens and invite them to live within its territorial borders. Indians wont settle with anything less in bargain for K Valley. Dont be surprised if Every walk of Indian just jump on this offer like no tomorrow.
@Aditya Singh Chauhan: @Jahangir Chauhan: This is not to intervene in a tete-a-tete between two Chauhans but to comment about the irony of it all. In 1920s Arya Samaj & "Shuddhi" (purification) movement were in news for conversion/reclamation by Hindus of Rajput-Muslims. Swami Shraddhanand of Lahore, an acolyte of Dayanand Saraswati, was the man behind it. In Agra 1922, Swami ji did "purification" of half a million Muslims who were of Malkana Rajput ancestry. It was still Pax Britannica or else civil war would have begun! All India Kshatriya ( Rajput) Sabha hosted the event. Event & enthusiasm over. Hindu Rajputs did not want anything to do socially with the "purified" families.. The old Hindus made it clear to the Neo-Hindus that while they might break bread together, no one was going to give their daughters in marriage to the families of the new converts. Such social ostracism, after inviting, was an insult. This led to serious resentment. Almost the entire lot went back to the welcoming Islamic fold where there was no discrimination against them. As reaction started the Tablighi movement by Meo Muslim-Rajputs of Mewat. Swami got murdered by one Abdul Rashid on 23rd December 1926 and Rashid was hanged for his crime.Today people have forgotten Swami & Rashid but Pak-Rajput bitterness remains & Tablighi Jamat is active..In Delhi GB Road was renamed as Swami Shraddhanand Marg. It is now an area of ill repute. And Chauhan v/s Chauhan continues!!
@Aditya Singh Chauhan Very nice post, authentic heart to heart talk from one Chauhan to another Chauhan. LOL
Appreciate the ET moderator for letting it through. Usually recent converts are more extremists than those who have been mussalmans for generations. Worthwhile to recall both MAJ and Iqbal had Hindu grand fathers.
As one visiting Egyptian President once said Paks think Islam was invented in 1947. Hilarious people.
@Jahangir Chauhan: So you as a Pakistani muslim communalist have finally spoken your mind.....Here's a secular Indian's solution : India should divide J&K into Jammu, Kashmir & Ladakh .Keep Jammu & Ladakh (non-muslim majority regions) , apologize to Kashmiris & Leave...
But Iam pretty sure that Pakistani muslim communalist won't stop becoming hating India untill Indian muslims live in India because the main problem is YOU HATE HINDUS ie NON- CONVERTS...So how to cure that problem..
Mr Jahangir , ur a Pakistani of my tribe ..The only difference is that we the majority did not convert (this does not mean we wear religion on our sleeves but we r simply non-converts), unlike your certain ancestors & thus have Indian names ,unlike you who has a Farasi name .But one thing is quite obvious you hate Hindus but continue to takeup an Indian Rajput surname ie a hindu surname The another difference is that I see my identity in my being a person of Indian Civillization & honor my ancestors Prithviraj Chauhan & Kanhaddev Deora Chauhan's fight against Central asian invaders .Not bcz of their faith but simply that they were invaders & these men were are native ancestors who defended our motherland against foreigners...You on the contrary are a Chauhan too , but you are bound to see your identity with Ghori on account of faith & your hatred for Hindus , as has been clear from your many comments Interestingly you as a Pakistani Muslim communalist are concerned more about India's Hindu communalists than your own country's muslim communalism & muslim fundamentalism..What a Hypocrisy
So two things are clear that 1) even though we are somewhere related but as people of different countries & not different religions , our mental-makeup remains different. 2)While you as a Pakistani Muslim Rightist yourself like reading Indian secularists ( mostly of Hindu backgrounds) take on India's Hindu Rightists but that is not because you share PRINCIPLES with them but rather it soothes your hatred for Hindus as a whole ..still I wonder why you continue that Hindu surname...or give up your hatred for Hindus & see that we donot necessarily hate you either
@antanu: "I believe in AMAN KI ASHA."
However, many in India now believe in "Acche Din Aane Wale Hain"
Interestingly, this phrase has now become popular in Pakistan too. I have heard Pakistan's media using the same phrase recently.
@antanu: So are you Najam Sethi?
@antanu: If she fail to mention positive then can you elaborate some please. Any way i love reading your non-sensible comment. It keep entertaining avid reader of ET.
@Kamal Yaar: (Modi and Indian Government may act week but voter’s anger can change that in minute if a something like Mumbai happens.) Your faith is right but I seek comfort in cynicism.The good news is the terrorists meet their Waterloo in India because nothing affects the masses. People die, terrorists die, smoke billows, TV anchor bellows and Bollywoodian life goes on & little happens. The extremist can't succeed. Security is status symbol, discipline is unpronounceable word, patriotism is 'do-you-love-modi-or-not', national priority is who has what marriage laws.Plane hijacked to Kandahar: terrorists released. Parliament attack:lot of huffing & puffing on border at huge cost but no hot pursuit; Akshardham temple attack: no outcome except all attackers dead & wall height increased; Samjhauta train fire: a few alleged Hindutva extremists arrested & kept behind bars, and are probably not guilty; Bombay 08: no breakthrough beyond finding out which eye of heterochromic David Hadley (Daood Sayed Gilani) is hazel & which brown. Whatever may happen,the imperious elephant perambulates imperviously, safe in the belief that no militant can ever win.
For India, the status quo will do just fine. As long as no more 'non-state' actors cross over to India from Pakistan - Pakistan have nothing to worry about from India. So India is not really desparate to 'make peace' with Pakistan.
Can the same be said about Pakistan? Unfortunately for it, it is Pakistan that has to reevaluate its position based on the realties of geo-politics and take the next steps. If it sticks to its old positions on Kashmir, Siachin etc - nothing is going to change. Can Pakistan afford the status quo?
@Tania: "Pakistan and India are the two Asian rivals , there historic rivalry have somehow put both the states at stake and and far away from peace." It always makes me laugh when some one says thing like this. ASIAN RIVALS big words. Thanks God you have spared the line "Nuclear powers." What sort of rivalry can be there between the the third economic power and biggest democracy of the world & a state on the boiling due to terror and internal strife. You always find that the the only glue to hold you together is hate and prove yourself as "non Indian." Sorry to drill the truth but to be honest let us get down from the high horses of military power and except that this rivalry is suicidal. As military power will never solve any thing. Talk about progress, cooperation, friendship and accepting with grace that we are same people but separated for good. For this, putting army in the correct prospective is necessary.
@Asad Rahim... So what do you want? Pakistan keeps sending terrorist across the border and we send you sweets?
@antanu: No shame in admitting you are Pakistani. Why don't you say the truth instead of beating around the bush?
@Tania: Pakistan and India are not two Asian rivals. China, India, Japan and to some extent South Korea come to mind instead.
Unless you meant South-Asian rivals. Even then we are not really rivals. Sure, India still has poverty and a lack of toilets, but in many ways we have left Pakistan far behind. And that distance is only likely to exacerbate. India's growth occurred despite animosity from Pakistan, Kargil, Mumbai attacks and beheading of soldiers. So there is really no incentive for India to initiate talks unless Pakistan is able to move forward substantively.
There are several constrains on the peace road between India and Pakistan, amazingly since 1948 from Kashmir advent, Indian policies are not favorable for peace. India has inducted new kind and generation of weapons and since last decade has increased its arms dramatically. Whenever there are peace talks, some Indian media starts negative propaganda. Now, both states even have tried track to diplomacy for peace talks but the constrains are still there, which makes less implications for peace.
I think the most we can expect is stasis - a deep freeze where nothing positive or negative happens for say 10 years. In this time, if both countries concentrate on their own internal affairs and become more prosperous and a bit more smarter, we can then think about peace talks.
people questioning my loyalty are in fact a pro war ...hate mongers. I believe in AMAN KI ASHA. .
Pakistan and India are the two Asian rivals , there historic rivalry have somehow put both the states at stake and and far away from peace. To bring stability and peace in the region, both states are required to negotiate and not to make any of them to commit something by sacrificing its national interest. Foreign actors have played their part in bringing both the states closer to wars but now is the time for both the nations to work collaboratively in trade, communications, transport in order to make the regional environment peaceful.
@Raj - USA: well you people can only make JOKES. ..I can't expect anything else from the people who feel elation over others plight.
Thinking about peace for South Asia is most desirable in all times. But there always exists a question that how to achieve peace remains an unanswered question for all of us on both sides. Between the lines, important is this that at least initiatives and efforts have been made for the means and ways to have peace. This is a fact that despite of so high gatherings under one roof still unable to find direct way for peace establishment. There is also a strong realization that tensed relationship is not in the benefit of any one. While each possessing nuclear capability which made peace most essential element for the bilateral and regional levels. But this is also a fact that how, when and where we can achieve peace for India Pakistan is still a mystery to unknot.
Writer says about track 1 and track II diplomacy "In most cases, these turn out to be gatherings of retired diplomats and military officers with a sprinkling of journalists or politicians."
Unless the military gets off from foreign affairs of the country nothing and I repeat nothing is going to happen. Because a military mind is programmed to fight, capture and dominate. They do not and can not understand any thing else except victory and defeat. Their existence is dependent on confrontations. So forget any good relations till the time civil government is in control.
@vasan: It is not tamil movie, actually a Malayalam movie called "traffic" which later remade in Tamil.
I fully endorse what the author says. All these Track II parleys are nothing but a jamboree and farce. What will India and Pakistan talk about when India is unwilling to surrender an sq inch of its territory, today or tomorrow ? Each should solve their own problems first and there are today plentiful of them. Pakistan would be better off tackling the existential issues plaguing it. Directing focus to non issues will not solve anything.
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Until the time that Hafiz Saeed is handed to India, there will never be peace.
Most of Indians who attended so called Track II diplomacy were discredited folks in Indian polity and carry little weight. One of them wanted Modi to sell tea outside his party's office and another politician who was high level minister came in 4th in recent election. It was just time-out and free travel for them. What influence these politician carry on present Indian Government. Secondly, Pakistan Government line that non-state actor should not affect relationship between two nation. That is horrible position to take. In democracy, there is something called public opinion. Modi and Indian Government may act week but voter’s anger can change that in minute if a something like Mumbai happens. Even Pakistani seems to have got tired with these non-state actors and want Government to take strong action against them.
@antanu:
Dont you have any shame man??You try to pose as an Indian in all your comments,but your Pak identity is very evident not just to Indians but to Pakistanis too.Pretending as an Indian you cant even properly spell things which are Indian.Stop this farce..you sound pathetic..
Let's not beat about the bush. What promises can Pakistan keep? To eliminate terrorists who hatch and carry out plots from Pakistan to attack civilians in India, Aghanistan or even China? Nope. To provide reliable trade? Nope. To provide reliable access to Iran-India pipeline? Nope. Why the heck would any country want to make any agreements with a country that cannot deliver on those agreements?
@antanu: Yu have called many "Fake". Every time you call someone a fake it reminds me of a very old joke. It goes like this.
An out-of-work actor was forced to take up a job with a visiting circus company. He was told that all he has to do is to wear a gorilla costume, be locked up in a cage and entertain visitors who may be passing by. He accepted the job out of desperation. He was dressed up and locked up in a cage. He then saw some movement from the back of the cage. It was another gorilla and it was walking towards him. He panicked and started to shout for help and to let him out of the cage. The gorilla from behind came to him, patted his back and said softly in his ears "brother don't think that you are the only out-of-work actor in town".
@antanu: Of all the commentators you have the audacity to call Nadeem 'fake' when you masquerade as Indian all the time. If you have any sense of shame take off your torn mask and present your original Pakistani face.
@ehsan why would samjota express bring us to nuclear war? Remember it was our own agency that traced and cracked the tough case of who planted the explosive in train and ran away. The people who did it are behind bars. Not free. However we are yet to see ant action on mumbai attack. Instead we the the perpetrators treated as celebrities on your tv. @antanu why don't you take your own advise given to Nadeem and stop pretending to be country national and come clean on your own country identity?
This is no time talk of trade or normalisation of relationship. All focus must be on closing down of Jihadi Factories in Pakistan.
Why would any sane person consider even talking peace or trade to Pakistan until and unless it can get some control over its own territory? At the end of all the talk and various track diplomacy, there have to be deliverables. Pakistan is in a hopeless situation of NOT being able to deliver on anything it promises to deliver. What to speak of non-state entities, there isn't any synergy even between various branches of the government. You don't talk peace with a fraction of a country!
Well said author. All Pakistan has to say to india is to Be careful about non state actors and dont let these maniacs spoil the peace.. We should trust each other to the level where single incident like Mumbai or samjhoota express donot bring us to the edge of Nuclear War.
Now that the Army sees victory on the horizon - I am referring to the fact that it seems to be getting closer to the goal of toppling the government and replacing it with its lackeys IK, Qadri, Chaudhries, and Sh Rasheed - it can be inferred that ISI will give greater latitude to the banned militant outfits. This will be payback for the help militant leaders are currently providing in the anti-government campaign. The militants will in turn infer from this that this is license to mount brazen operations in India, which they will gladly mount, and for which we - the 180 million captive audience - will pay the price. This is the most likely scenario, and it will be the direct result of our military masters ceasing to desist from playing with fire.
Peace between india and pak is very important for both of us.. It's other matters that india can't gain more by trade because india-pak trade is less than 1/4 of india-china trade.. Our new prime minister modi has taken all the steps to ensure peace between india and pak.. But for peace, pak must shutdown its Export factory of Jihad which is the reason for death of our fellow indian brothers.. Unless STRATEGIC ASSETS i mean Non state actors are behind the bar, peace can't be ensured and relations will reamain same. Nothing will change...!