The ghosts of Partition

Published: August 14, 2012
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The writer is the Chairperson of the History Department at Forman Christian College Lahore

The writer is the Chairperson of the History Department at Forman Christian College Lahore

Every country’s Independence Day is a defining moment in its history. The events of the day are the culmination of years of struggle and the day hearkens to a new beginning. The same is true for Pakistan, except that we have yet to move on from our ‘1947’ moment. This is not because historians keep writing about it but that in our collective memory, we still have to reconcile with the events of 1947 and move forward. Let me highlight just a few aspects.

First, and here I am utilising the work of Professor Gurharpal Singh — of the School of Oriental and African Studies at the University of London — is the legacy of violence. Since Pakistan was born in violence, violence has become intrinsic to the body politic of the country. Let us not forget that it was not the constitutional brilliance of Mohammad Ali Jinnah which finally convinced the Congress, especially Nehru and Patel, and Mountbatten to agree to a partition, but the deteriorating law and order situation in the Muslim majority provinces, which was directly related to the ‘Direct Action’, called by Jinnah in late 1946. Hence, Pakistan was literally fought for on the streets of Calcutta, Lahore, Rawalpindi, etc. This ‘violence’, which was largely planned, then became so integral to the imagination of the country that since then, both the state and the people have utilised it repeatedly. This is not to say that other countries are not born in violence and bloodshed; they are, but the degree to which this violence has seeped into the mindset of official and public in Pakistan, is destabilising.

Secondly, there is the legacy of intolerance. I have mentioned this earlier in this newspaper, the fact that some Muslims of India claimed that they could not imagine living in an India with a Hindu majority, had at its core, a sense of intolerance. For hundreds of years, Muslims had lorded over an overwhelming Hindu population and it seemed that only a return to that situation was acceptable to them, or at the very least, the acceptance that a minority of 25 per cent was equal to a majority of nearly 70 per cent. Ironically, the democratic system which was so unacceptable to this class of Muslims (and here I remember the millions of Muslims who chose not to come to Pakistan), was the vehicle for the creation of Pakistan. Paradoxically, of course, Pakistan as a modern state was born in a situation where one of the basic principles underlying the modern nation-state — majority rule — was unacceptable to its founders. It is no surprise then that East Pakistanis could not get their right of majority rule.

Thirdly, Pakistan has remained what Liaquat Ali Khan called a ‘laboratory’, where various Islamic principles were to be experimented upon and adjusted with the Western concepts of a modern liberal state — and that is what has been happening ever since. Indeed, it was not an easy task to have a confessional state but without the rule of the clergy. At a time when Western Europe was emerging from such an experiment and moving towards liberal democracy, Pakistan was embarking upon this experiment in the Muslim context. We are still reeling from some such ‘experiments’.

Professor Ayesha Jalal has shown how, when Pakistan was created, there was a great sense of ownership among the people of the new state. People routinely commented that ‘such a thing’ did not happen in Pakistan any longer. While this sense of ownership was constructive to a certain extent, it also translated into self-righteousness and bigotry, which prevented constructive criticism and development. For example, it was rather fantastic that during the debate on separate electorates some Muslims in the constituent assembly argued that they were there to safeguard the ‘right of the minorities’ whereas all minority members were united in opposing them. The irony was certainly lost on them.

Sixty-five years ago, Pakistan was born in unprecedented circumstances and with a lot of baggage. Years later, we are still suffering from the same issues — the problems highlighted in Jinnah’s August 11, 1947 speech are still very much present. Perhaps, it is time that we do not ignore the issues of the past, honestly deal with them in the present, so that we can, finally, emerge from being a laboratory experiment to a real country and nation.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 14th, 2012.

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Reader Comments (142)

  • eiddh
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:43AM

    Best read piece ever

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  • MSS
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:04AM

    Very well written albeit a short piece. Pakistan is confused because that is the legacy of a confused man. Jinnah was first an Indian nationalist who fought for the freedom of the country. Then he wanted a state (with He himself as the leader in power) based on faith. Immediately after the creation of Pakistan he became himself again , a secular person. Then why did he create a separate state? I cannot help thinking that he just wanted political power for himself and a new separate state was the only way to guarantee that. As some one said:

    Khatain lamhe karate hain
    Sara sadion ko milti hai.

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  • Aug 14, 2012 - 1:20AM

    `Sixty-five years ago, Pakistan was born in unprecedented circumstances and with a lot of baggage´
    Very relevant and well explained.Let this point never stop making ripples countrywide.
    My best wishes for the Independant Day.

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  • Amit
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:32AM

    Bravo – first honest column on formation of Pakistan in pretty much all the years I can remember reading Pakistani newspapers.

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  • S
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:33AM

    It’s amusing that as a liberal you had to do the obligatory mention of the Aug. 11 speech! So, on breaking the country with a violent partition in which millions died and millions became homeless on the basis that Hindus and Muslims could not live together due to irreconcilable social and religious differences, Jinnah suddenly proclaimed on Aug. 11, 1947 that Hindus would cease to be Hindus, Muslims would cease to be Muslims…etc. And then, in October, 1947, he urged his countrymen to have Pakistan built as a “Bulwark of Islam”. Is it a mystery to anyone why no one in Pakistan took the Aug. 11 speech seriously?

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  • Mr X from Bombay
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:43AM

    Salute Yaqoob. Partition of India and Pakistan is still a bleeding wooden in hearts of many. What mojority of us detest about the creation of Pakistan is the fact that it was created with violence, which was direct result of Jinnah’s “Direct Action” and which was disgusting and absolutely un-necessary. The emotional fools amongst us got us two neighbors involved in lifetime of hatred.
    What infuriates us (far less religiously inclined Indians) more is the fact that just because few intolerant muslims could not bear the idea of living in Hindu majority country got away with dividing people for their own personal agenda. And the result of that was strong religious inclinations on both sides of the border. The partition gave voice only to religious extremists who claimed and tried to convince others that they were better off being all hindu or all muslims rather than living together.
    The violence of Direct action left such a deep that it predictably created a hard paranoia amongst muslims and hindus against each other and for ever, …….how cursed we are to live with this paranoia, hatred and fear for generations just because of the greed of the few.

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  • Rajendra Kalkhande
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:46AM

    Do we understand correctly that the laboratory experiment failed? Where do you begin in the past to take stock of things that went wrong? In 1947 or way back in history of Islmisation of subcontinent ? Is it really possible to make corrections to the past wrong doings both at the part of Hindus and Muslims of the subcontinent and workout a mechanism in which both can live peacefully as civilized people ? In my view the problems of Pakistan lay in the Hindu Muslim relations of pre-1947 India. The amount of hate which Pakistani ( rather Pakistani Punjabi) Muslims have for Hindus, is not found among Muslims from any other country in the world. Are they any lesser Muslims? Afghans, Egyptians, Saudis and Iranians are quite friendly with us, Is it just because of Kashmir that you hate us? Not in my view. Your hate goes back to the days when you converted from Hinduism to Islam. Hating us became the yardstick of your being a quality Muslim. This hate was self imposed and not a religious pre-requisite. Things will improve only when you get rid of this hate. Nothing less that this will help Pakistan to come out of her problems.

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  • Iqbal
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:48AM

    To best judge how Pakistan has moved since independence is to look from an independent view. It can be said that “It is the story of a society that has been going round in circles …..” (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6940148.stm)
    It is as old as India but that is where the comparison ends. Lord Mountbatten’s lecture to Mr Jinnah that Pakistan would not succeed has been proved right.

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  • entropy
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:07AM

    The only people that are haunted by the ‘ghosts of partition’ are the liberals. The rest of us hardly even think about it. Even those who suffered terribly at the hands of Sikh and Hindu mobs in East Punjab are a lot less partition-bothered than the liberals. I wonder what’s going on here.

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  • Pmbm
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:15AM

    How can it be that pakistanis do not believe in majority when they just passed contempt law by a majority.

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  • Venkat
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:17AM

    Sensible introspection.
    VenkatRecommend

  • Mirza
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:43AM

    How could we get out of the past and get on with our lives when all we have heard since childhood that how great we have been in the history. We don’t see much present and no future hence living in past and praising ourselves is a feel good hobby.Recommend

  • Babloo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:44AM

    Thank you sir , for telling the truth, which I quote below..
    “Let us not forget that it was not the constitutional brilliance of Mohammad Ali Jinnah which finally convinced the Congress, especially Nehru and Patel, and Mountbatten to agree to a partition, but the deteriorating law and order situation in the Muslim majority provinces, which was directly related to the ‘Direct Action’, called by Jinnah in late 1946. Hence, Pakistan was literally fought for on the streets of Calcutta, Lahore, Rawalpindi, etc. This ‘violence’, which was largely planned,”

    Yes, it was the planned and brilliantly executed communal violence, that convinced Mr Nehru and Mr Patel that a divided India was better than a united India, destroyed by communal violence from those that demanded a seperate state.

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  • Sanjeev
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:46AM

    Happy Independence Day to the Pakistanis. I have a question for you guys though. Do you see Pakistan becoming a secular state in the next generation or so? If not, then I think we Indians need to take a step back. We need to stop trying to “take you back” in terms of values and culture. If you continue to believe in an Islamic state and we in a secular state, that’s a pretty strong difference with no meeting path down the road. We can respect each other, but I will have very little in common with a country’s values if it believes that the religion of 97% of its population needs to be given an officially privileged status over the religions of the remaining 3%. It’s pretty sad how a non-Muslim Pakistani cannot even be allowed to be your country’s President or PM.

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  • sadhana
    Aug 14, 2012 - 3:38AM

    Good luck! The day an article like this can get published in Urdu, will be a hopeful day.

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  • Babloo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 3:45AM

    Great opinion piece.
    The author hits the bulls eye, when he says
    “Let us not forget that it was not the constitutional brilliance of Mohammad Ali Jinnah which finally convinced the Congress, especially Nehru and Patel, and Mountbatten to agree to a partition, but the deteriorating law and order situation in the Muslim majority provinces, which was directly related to the ‘Direct Action’, called by Jinnah in late 1946. Hence, Pakistan was literally fought for on the streets of Calcutta, Lahore, Rawalpindi, etc. This ‘violence’, which was largely planned ..”
    Yes sir, Mr Nehru , Mr Patel and Congress leadership, apalled and shocked by the brutally planned communal violence to press the demand of Pakistan, accepted a divided India when the other choice was a destroyed united India.

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  • Abbas
    Aug 14, 2012 - 4:50AM

    Oh My God!!!! Finally after 65 years….you are bringing out a buried truth—the reason for such a violent background!!! Please be careful about such rogues who will not tolerate this real truth. Innumerable lies are now biting Pakistan nation to its bones… This piece of truth is what that will liberate Pakistan..Whoever thought Jinnah was peaceful need to just look at Direct Action Day…the reality will ….

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  • Thoughtful
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:29AM

    Many years from now you will acknowledge the ghosts of 26/11

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  • sabi
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:42AM

    Author
    Brilliant article.But we are mistaken!-In 1947 muslim elites,not an ordinary man, got indedependance from united india at the cost of bloodshed of millions of ordinary people.Now commen man need independance from ilegal ruling elites.But question remains at whos’s cost indepence of commen man.Should the equation reverse? Another bloodshed! chances are yes.
    Regards

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  • Max
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:46AM

    I will add one more variable to Professor Gurharpal Sing’s well thought and argued assertion; violence and that divide happened because of prejudices. How deep-seated were these is hard to say as these differed from region to region. These were more apparent in around traditional seat of governance…… Delhi and then perhaps in commercial center…… Bombay. The areas that became Pakistan, the prejudices were mild but became intensified in the later years when Muslim League tried to popularize its rhetoric.
    There was always a possibility of easement of tension, had the leadership taken some positive steps. I, personally blame the leadership on both sides of the divide.

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  • It Is (still) Economy Stupid
    Aug 14, 2012 - 6:06AM

    The wound of partition are very raw for those 350 Hindu families that moved to India this week. They are carrying negative feelings for a nation where they were born but poor law and order situation made them move.

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  • Mir Agha
    Aug 14, 2012 - 6:11AM

    A peculiar narrative the author has spouted. In obsessing over Jinnah, he forgets that Jinnah was just representing the voices of the vast majority of Muslims in the British Colony – truly a lawyer. ML had 90% of the Muslim votes, the fact that people chose to stay for other reasons doesn’t detract that he represented the views of the Muslims. When someone isn’t giving you your right of independence and sovereignty, people will take it. We saw it with Pakistan, we saw it again in Bangladesh, and we’ll continue seeing it in South Asia until it is rationalized. The whole issue begins and ends with people formulating that a former British colony should be a nation or one political entity. Pakistan was made for Muslims and will continue being a Muslim nation. Acknowledging certain facts can get rid of a lot of confusion in the heads of certain individuals like this author.

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:03AM

    @S: Right or wrong you got the state you wanted, you got a state in which you could safeguard the ‘right of the minorities’ (Muslims of India). Having got this state Mr Jinnah the intelligent man that he was realized that to convert this state into a nation it was essential to protect the rights of all its citizens.Till you unravel this mystery behind the Aug 11 speech you will not be able to transform yourself from a state to a nation.Look back into history only those conquering armies that protected the remainder of the population after the conquest could rule the lands they conquered for any length of time,

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:11AM

    @entropy: What is going on here is after all this hate how do we move to the next step of living at peace with the citizens of our respective countries.

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  • Ashvinn
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:15AM

    @Mr X from Bombay:
    Correction it was not partition of India and Pakistan,it was pmartition of india

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  • C. Nandkishore
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:31AM

    Congrats ET. Another good article. Yes, it was the deteriorating law and order situation that convinced the AICC to agree for partition. Kriplani, the Congress president at that time, said so in his explanation letter.

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  • American Desi
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:56AM

    Telling it like it is! Thanks to the writer for his honesty and thanks to ET for publishing it!

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  • Amit
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:57AM

    Do the Pakistani text books teach the truth about 1947 and 1971 or do they continue to brainwash the population with lies?

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  • Abdul Rafeh Iqbal
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:19AM

    what?
    violence?
    which country has taken birth from non-violence?
    the Spanish inquisition?
    the American Independence?
    Bangladesh?
    South and North Korea?
    Republic of Turkey?
    Scotland?
    India?
    Pakistan???

    are you serious?
    all countries have gained independence and that occurred in devastating consequences around the world.
    that’s not an excuse at all to put in question here…

    Isn’t our Generation already filled with enough confusions of their own to consider another one? we have intentionally tried to waste our lives, our resources and our future’s by not giving a damn over some lame excuse.
    and now, you soo eloquently put another one of these young eager minds just waiting for another confusion to come knock on their doorsteps

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  • malik
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:33AM

    Independence Day is the time to talk about our Founding Father’s vision and then lament what a great guy he was, if only we had followed his glorious vision how we would have become the centre of universe etc etc.

    Then next we bash up Zia as if he alone is responsible for the ills of the nation. Then it is time to pay tributes to the Army whose patriotism is unparalleled and the once institution in the country that has no corruption. Next, it is time to vent our spleen on US because it is this country that had enslaved us by not providing enough money and support when we needed them most.

    Finally, we end up the Independence Day message with the optimistic message which basically denies all our faults and blaming our neighbors for everything. There is nothing wrong with us and if only we are more religious, life will be better….

    This is the ritual called Independence Day celebration for the last 65 years and is it going to be any different this time around ?

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  • Sam
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:42AM

    Can you tell us, why Jinnah was not in the forefront of fighting for independance ?
    He was not in jail, even for 1 single day.

    Nehru was in jail for about 14 yrs.

    Why ? Why ?

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  • Muhammad Saad
    Aug 14, 2012 - 9:06AM

    The article is written in pure confusion or frustration cause either the writer belongs to BLA or any other Anti-Pakistan Movement. He also seems unaware of the facts about the partition or his imagination is so strong that he imagine or dreamed about the event in his perspective dream. The facts that you are ignoring are also mentioned by some of your writers. We know much better about partition & 1971 and we know what is wrong /right in them. Please Don’t try to change the way of rivers cause they would never.

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  • Indian
    Aug 14, 2012 - 9:22AM

    Wishing all Pakistanis a happy independence day and all the progress…

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  • Indian wisdom
    Aug 14, 2012 - 9:57AM

    No point in dwelling in “1947”!!! We can not blame/credit just Jinna for the partition , other leaders like Nehru and others were equally responsible.We have analysed the past relentlessly, but now it is time to move on. India was always a reality and Pakistan is also a reality. No one can change it. Its better to move forward rather than keeping eyes fixed on the past. I hope that after all these experiments of Islamist in the laboratory of Islam, i.e. Pakistan, they will be able to derive some good learning and mend the ways. The experiments must lead to realization of truth and facts and the earlier Pakistan gets its facts right, the better.
    Happy Independence Day to all of my brothers and sisters in Pakistan from India!!!!!!

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  • Arya
    Aug 14, 2012 - 10:07AM

    Pakistan was not only born in violence, but was reborn in violence after repartition in 1971. The later re birth of a free country is inspite of the historic baggage suggests idea of Pakistan is basically an idea of violence. The scale and methods of violence increases and changes with fruition of each idea. The violence of 1971 is more violent that 1948, and the violence of post 1971 is even more violent than the previous one. In a way one can even argue that India, Bangladesh,Taliban etc all are born out of fruition of this idea.

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  • karma
    Aug 14, 2012 - 10:17AM

    And some Kashmiris want another partition on the basis that they can’t live within a Hindu Majority India and Pakistan supports them?

    haven’t enough Hindu’s been converted or pushed out of their homelands already?

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  • Tony Singh
    Aug 14, 2012 - 10:28AM

    Just wondering – Does Pakistan establishment also acknowledge the sacrifices made by the likes of Bhagat Singh and Lala Lajpat Rai?

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  • usman
    Aug 14, 2012 - 10:44AM

    Can author please explain that why there are less than 2% indian Muslims in government jobs. Of the 479 judges at the all-India level, only 30 are Muslim, that makes it just 6.26%. In the IAS, the Muslim percentage is a mere 2.27%. Of the 3,284 IPS officers, just 120 are Muslims (3.65%).Muslim MPs represent 6.4 per cent of the total MPs while Muslims represent 15-20 per cent of the Indian population. Literacy rate of muslim is 41% against 63% of national literacy rate

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  • Indian Catholic
    Aug 14, 2012 - 10:50AM

    @Author: Your article is honest, cogent and comes across as a breath of fresh air.

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  • Feroz
    Aug 14, 2012 - 10:54AM

    The author knows his history well, unfortunately a different history is being taught in Educational Institutions across the country. If the wrong history is taught, the lessons can never be learnt.

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  • Iqbalkhan
    Aug 14, 2012 - 11:35AM

    Let’s join India back. Let’s make it one country again. This way there will be no fights and we will be led by politicians like Manmohan singh not like Zardari.

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  • Moazzam Salim
    Aug 14, 2012 - 11:36AM

    All independence struggles in the history have stigma of violence attached to them. And even by the author’s own logic India too was born out of violence. To shamelessly pin our current failures onto our sacrifices for independence shows a demented mind. Some people it seems have yet to understand and adjust to the creation of Pakistan……uber fail

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  • gp65
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:05PM

    @usman: “Literacy rate of muslim is 41% against 63% of national literacy rate”

    This is the answer to your questions. Government schools are free for all Indian citizens. IF some pursue education and others do not, that will surely impact the level of representation in government jobs. If however there was a bias in Indian polity, talented Muslims would not have reached the top in every single field be it governance (becoming President, CJ, CEC even head of nuclear program), Bollywood (acting, singing, music direction, direction), cricket, classical music, industry.

    98% of Indian population has access to a government school within 1.5 miles of their residence. Further mid-day meals are provided in government school to encourage attendance. Once the literacy rates match rest of India I am sure presence in government jobs will also match. After all Muslims are not the only religious miorities in India. If Sikhs, Parsis, Jains do not have this complaint, then Muslim community leadership within India has to take leadership and encourage education. This is the path to progress.

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  • Anand
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:07PM

    @usman:
    Valid questions… Answers are:

    Because muslims reproduce more than they can feed and educate. Afterall, in their opinion, feeding and educating their kids is responsibility of God Almighty.
    Because muslims prefer sending their kids to madarssas and not to Govt schools. Reading and memorizing Koram can make you a good human but not necessarily an employable one – accept the reality.
    Because muslims have behaved and still do behave like a ‘herd’ and are more than willing to be driven like a herd. Come elections time and they become a vote bank which is then exploited by few key religious/political leaders. Muslim elites have ensured that large number of Muslims remain what they are – poor, uneducated (at best Madarssa educated) and a ready ‘herd’ to be guided in a direction that suits them.

    The list can go on and on… But I will urge you to reflect and complete this list.

    Regards,
    AA

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  • Aug 14, 2012 - 12:07PM

    Muslim ruling class of Pre-partition India in the form of Salariat and Zamindar (Big Landowners) class used the Petty bourgeisie and Lumpen proletariat in their ‘Pakistan Movement’ by drumming up ‘Anti Hindu bogey’ and frauds like ‘ Islam in danger’, ‘Muslims ho to muslim league may aaoo’ etc etc.

    Since 1947, Pakistani Ruling Class (all educated, ostensibly liberal, conversant in English ) have USED the petty burgeoisie and lumpen proletariat (less educated, main medium of education & communication – Urdu) again and again to preserve and further their hegemoney and exploitation. Take the Objective Resolution, Anti Ahmedi riots in Punjab in early fifties, 1965 sneak attack on India, 1971 war on Bengalis, Military Operations on Baluchis of 1950’s , 1960’s , 1970’s and now going on since 2004 till date, Anti Qadiani laws during Bhutto regime in early 1970’s , Zia regime’s furhter strengthening them and oppressing other minorities through amendments in Blashphemy laws. All along our history, capitalist classes, who have ruled us, have mobilized petty bourgeoisie and lumpen proletariat thru use of religion, Nationalism, fears of the Other etc etc.

    Hence the real enemies of majority toiling classes of Pakistan is the capitalist Ruling class – which changes its colors as the situation suits it – its uses religion when its suits it, it becomes ‘enlightened moderate’ when it suits it, and it can be both at the Same Time. Nowadays also, it takes money from imperialism to form NGOs holding seminars on ‘democracy’ and ‘anti fundamentalism’, thus cleverly trying to deflect attention from the main issues of Local capitalist exploitation and local cum foreign Imperialist war . Another faction of it, takes money from Imperialism and local capitalists to selectively support and use leadership of petty bourgeoise formations like Sipah Sahaba, Jaish e Mohd, Jammat ut dawah etc etc .

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  • gp65
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:09PM

    @Moazzam Salim: “And even by the author’s own logic India too was born out of violence.”

    Wrong Indian leaders went in for a non-violent movement. Gandhi, Nehru, Tilak spent not days and months but decades in jail. ot just those hundreds of thousands of Indians courted arrests as part of Civil disobedience movement, quit India movement etc. Of course not a single Muslim league leader went to jail for even one full day because their movement was not based on non-violence. In fact if you check history, Muslim league’s objective was to support the British rule when it was formed.

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  • ashvinn
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:14PM

    @Iqbalkhan:
    no offence, we dont want your Nightmares, or your strategic assets

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  • ashvinn
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:24PM

    @usman:
    Well it is more then just discrimination, after partition muslims lost their elite to Pakistan, the muslims of India do not have any leader of stature, their is none on the horizion. But the stituation is slowly changing for better it will take time for them to make impact, after all a whole generation of leadership ran away to Pakistan.Indian has been better with it minorties then all of its neighbhors we do not indulge in genocide unlike the killing of tibetans Hindus tamilians Bangaldeshis by illustritrous neighbhors.But we Indians are aware one worng does not justify another worng.

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  • spacedoutwriting
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:26PM

    A great article but I will like to push the argument a bit further.

    In my view, the biggest error was working within the concept of the European nation state for a post-British India.

    A federal India was possible and is already a reality with some states like Tamil Nadu, West Bengal, U.P. and even Gujrat pursuing a more independent line and bargaining and pushing the Center. But great men though they all were, Jinnah, Nehru and the rest could not see beyond the western conceptualisation of nation. Its was only Gandhi, much abused and seen as irrelevant in India today, who could see the monster that was nationalism.

    To those who wonder at the low rate of employment, education etc of Indian Muslims in contemporary India:
    I agree with all of you that it is a failure. And we have to do much better. However, be careful in the conclusions you draw from these statistics.
    Partition crippled the new nation states of India and Pakistan in many ways. Most of the Muslim elite and middle class of British India fearful of a “Hindu India” sought better opportunities in Pakistan. A large Muslim population remained behind and fell prey to a highly regressive leadership (All India Muslim Personal Law Board is perhaps a prime example).

    This is not an all encompassing explanation is not enough and does not take into account a range of external and internal factors such as the role of Congress party under Indira and Rajiv and the rise of the “Muslim vote bank”.

    To my fellow Indians, do not take this as an opportunity to crow off the rooftop. Bangash’s attempt to hold a mirror to his country men is an opportunity to reflect on the failures of the Indian state. Its been over 60 years and we have to figure out a better way of accommodating legitimate aspirations of people of the North East and Kashmir than simply throwing AFSPA.

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  • harkol
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:33PM

    Usman: Where did you get your numbers?!!

    As per 2001 census Indian Muslim literacy rate is 59%, against a national average of 65%. That was a decade back, and 2011 census partial data shows the national average has gone up to 74%, so Muslim literacy rate also should be up (though number is not available yet).

    But, even if you take 2001 census data of 59% muslim literacy, it is higher than total literacy rate of Pakistan!!

    Muslims form 13% of Indian population (not 15-20%) as of 2011. It was 11% at independence, thus showing a growth of almost 20% in proportionate population. How does Pakistan fare with respect to its minority numbers?

    Agreeably, Muslims do have some under representation in Indian govt. jobs, and that is to do with lower focus on scientific education vis-a-vis other communities. Govt. is trying to bridge this gap, post Sachar report. Especially, they have provided a quota to Muslims under the OBC section.

    The point is there is no structural & constitutional support for Muslims in India, not discrimination. The problems muslims have are more social.

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  • JSH
    Aug 14, 2012 - 12:59PM

    Dear Express Tribune,

    It was an excellent article!!!
    I can say, this is the most honest and the best article I have ever read in my life! At last, someone came up with something based on truth!!

    @Author: Thanks heaven for telling the truth. And I request you to please kindly write more on this subject!!

    We need more truth-speakers like the author of this article! Because our nation is brainwashed by our biased school textbooks!

    Thanks again!

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  • amalgam
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:15PM

    I would not wish pakistanis “independence day” since there was no country named pakistan before 1947 so calling it independence is quiet vogue .

    Hence , HAPPY PARTITION DAY

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  • Sid
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:24PM

    Firstly, Best wishes for your future and happy independence day to you.

    Some of you (Pakistanis) have painted a pretty bleak picture of present day Pakistan. I hope things will turn and you will see brighter days.

    Some of you are still pointing out stupid statistics like % of literacy of Muslims in india. To them, its our problem leave it to us, solve your own problems first.

    Finally @author, “Direct action” was a disgraceful thing to do. Regardless of how good/bad/confused Mr Jinnah was when he issued it, I doubt if he anticipated the carnage that it would cause. It was just plain disgraceful. Check the British records and you will know that that the Congress won majority seats in the region that is Pakistan today, as late as 1945 elections. So Pakistan was not a consensus idea at that time, it was a move for political gains. Having said that, The political ambitions of Nehru (another power hungry man) were as responsible for all that happened as anyone else.

    Lets just agree to move on. We are completely different idealogies now, but that is no reason to fight. We can very well co-exist and yet agree to disagree in a civilized manner.Recommend

  • Srinivas
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:37PM

    @Asim Jaan:
    The enemy is your ignorance ,as long as you find others out side you will never catch the theif

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  • khan of quetta
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:41PM

    @amalgam:
    now there is pakistan zindabad

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  • karma
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:56PM

    Anand:
    That is an unfair comment.

    Firstly, the numbers given by Usman are wrong. In 2001(refer census data), Muslim literacy is about 60%, only marginally less than national average (65%). 2011 numbers may be even higher.

    But, Though the muslim population growth in India has been faster than other religions, it has nothing to do with the difference in illiteracy. Nor can a person who has been to a Madrasa be called illiterate! They do teach how to read & write in Madrasa.

    The real reason why Muslim literacy suffers is because of higher level of poverty. Which pushes children into professions at a young age. This needs to change, and hopefully it will in next 10yrs.

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  • Murthy
    Aug 14, 2012 - 1:56PM

    Thanks for the article. The author has pinpointed the need to move ahead and not stand frozen in the past without finding answers all these years.

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  • Aug 14, 2012 - 1:57PM

    Great introspection as mentioned above.

    In fact Maulana Azad believes that the Congress leaders just emerging from a 6-year imprisonment at the Ahmednagar prison were a sick, ageing, tired lot and the violence unleashed during after after direct action day was something they had no stamina to stomach and so they gave in to the violent mob.

    the six years before independance was the time the muslim league reinforced the sense of insecurity among muslims and therefore the overwhelming electoral victories prior to independance – the congress leaders on the other hand were in jail.

    Excellent piece.

    Recommend

  • Indian.
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:14PM

    @ Usman “Can author please explain that why there are less than 2% Indian Muslims in government jobs……” Can you not find the reson yourself? 90% of ordinary Muslims in UP Bombay, Bihar etc. trusted Jinnah. It was worst betrayal to them, they ware abandoned to their fate. Still horrible was when they found educated among them also left them “decapitated”. In no grandiose plan for Pakistan was supposed to include UP or Bombay in Pakistan, but people ware never told, in 1947 they found them self high and dry. It was secular polity of India and one must give credit to Nehru that it did not let mahasabha and RSS gain too much importance in politics. It is Pakistan which is responsible for plight of Indian Muslims. Now after several years of a sense of belonging is coming in Indian Muslims, and level of education is also rising, hopefully in a few years or a few decades, things will improve.

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  • Top Cat
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:15PM

    What a nonsensical article… I can give you thousands of examples where countries have gained independence as a result of violence, violence to get their rights… The constitutional brilliance of Jinnah was that he was able to command the respect of all the Muslims and Muslim League emerged as the Muslim representative party… So you think all the Muslims who rose to fight for their right on Jinnah’s order were all blockheads, why did they heed Jinnah’s call… they heeded it because they trusted him as their leader… that is Jinnah’s brilliance… I presume you come from a family who had a lot of British bequeathed jagir in today’s India… And because you have left all your jagir in the current day India you have a problem with Pakistan… Or something to that effect…Recommend

  • Sonia
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:25PM

    If Muslims have been in power in history – that is as much of the truth as what everyone in this forum is supporting- to want to be on the top rung is everyone’s desire- if the West has that inclination- oh its OK- if Muslims have that desire- its not right because its fed into them- what sort of hypocrisy is this- having a ‘desire’ is not wrong- going about to fulfill it in wrong ways id wrong- which I don’t think Muslims have succeeded in ,in Pakistan as yet.

    Every country when born is a ‘laboratory’ for religion, aristocracy, law and the likes. What are you proving by saying that Pakistan is a ‘laboratory’ for Islamic principles which will be adjusted fora Western view. You think America wasn’t??? the Church which took over the country’s law system at one time and dictated every aspect of life and now it is just an aspect of life- it happens with time. Every country faces the lab stage in different areas of its society. Countries who have too many outward influences take more time to shape up. Pakistan is no different. If you expect it to be ‘perfect’ in 65 years- with such irresponsible write ups- i think it will just keep the youth in a lull.

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:31PM

    @usman: I will narrate an incident which might give you the answer to your question. I was working in a cement factory at Wadi distt Gulberga in Karnataka (the official language is Kannad). I had just purchased a second hand Fiat car and was as yet not a confident driver. Approx 250km away is Nanak Jhera where i wanted to go to on a pilgrimage with my family by car.Wadi was a small village where there was just one car mechanic Raja. As i was not confident about my driving i requested him to drive the car on a daily wage basis.While he was driving he kept asking me what the next town was as per the KM stones. After this had happened a few times i asked him “You seem to be a educated boy why dont you read the KM stones”He replied ” I am 10th pass but in Urdu medium”. The KM stones were in English and Kannad which he could not read.If i as a Sikh learn to read and write only Punjabi that to in the gurmukhi script do you think i can get a govt job in Pakistan.This is the type of thing that Maulana Abdul Klam Azad had predicted would happen the Muslim intelligentsia and leadership migrated to Pakistan and a lot of the current leadership does not realize is that the first thing that education must achieve is to make the youth employable. Religion is a personal matter leave it to the individual.

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:36PM

    @Iqbalkhan: It is ok to dream sometimes but partition is irreversible learn to live with it

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  • It Is (still) Economy Stupid
    Aug 14, 2012 - 2:57PM

    Muslims in united India would have made significant contribution to mankind. Imagine for a minute the makeup of Parliament of united India. Muslim seats from current area so called Pakistan and Bangladesh combined with Muslims within India. They would have sufficient seats in the Indian parliament to dictate the agenda of the government and society.

    Recommend

  • Aug 14, 2012 - 3:46PM

    @usman:

    Can you explain why Muslims kill Muslims in Pakistan? 35,000+ in the last 10 decades alone?

    (I expect you to blame foreign forces, of course)

    At least in India, Muslims might be marginalized(that too even partly) but they are safe(even if you consider Gujrat riots which happened a decade back. Karachi killings happened earlier this year).

    Recommend

  • Bulbul
    Aug 14, 2012 - 3:54PM

    @Sanjeev:
    Yeah ofcourse. The aim is to become 100% secular when minorities become 0% in Pakistan!

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  • Sonia
    Aug 14, 2012 - 4:00PM

    @jagjit sidhoo:
    your story is understandable and I know about Azad’s concerns about Muslim intelligentsia!

    But to tell you the truth- Muslim intelligentsia doesn’t need to know and learn languages that are not international level- concerning the story you tell. Most of the Pakistanis – whether as a fashion or education know French, Spanish and Chinese and English- and our milestones are in English :) or Urdu- so it not difficult even for a Pathan who has basic education of grade 5 to read them!!!

    Secondly, Pakistani intelligentsia (regardless of being Muslim or not) is not restricted to a certain type of knowledge- I do agree we do have to work on the ‘government’ level of education- but then who doesn’t! There are problems of the ‘optimum’ not of the ‘basic’ – we have the basic infrastructure, the basic knowledge, even the people who can do it- just not the ‘right’ people to achieve the optimum.

    I believe that after partition, quite contrary to what Azad said, Pakistanis have had more open opportunity to educate themselves- education doesn’t come in a platter- most people work hard to achieve it – and I mean Pakistan as a whole.

    And yes we have a recent case of a boy who used to bake ‘rotis’ in a tandoor who topped in his Board exams!!!

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  • Cosmo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 4:01PM

    @usman:
    Well that is still better than your county, where muslims are suffering more! In absolute numbers more muslims of india are happier than muslims of a violent Pakistan!

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  • Cosmo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 4:02PM

    @Iqbalkhan:
    No, not possible!

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  • Ashvinn
    Aug 14, 2012 - 4:23PM

    @It Is (still) Economy Stupid:
    Well we need to thank Jinnah for PakistanRecommend

  • Jeffmahagaonvi
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:10PM

    I don’t think “the ghost of partition” has to do something in the development of the mindset, what we have. And It is only illogical thinking and illegal doing in each & every sphere of life.
    We want to be just like Japan, S korea, Malaysia and Turkey, But without changing our
    mediaeval & corrupt outlook.

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  • Ishtiaq
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:12PM

    To Pakistanis and to Indians, Lets’ simply say happy independence days. Lets’ see and focus on our common heritage rather than the bitterness of the past.

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  • dude108
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:20PM

    @karma:
    not possible again

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  • Iqbal
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:22PM

    @usman:
    I am afraid that Muslims are also unemployable in UK. You are implying that there is discrimination towards muslims in India but how do you explain that they “targeted” in the West as well? In UK hindus are four times less likely to be unemployed then muslims. (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/feb/20/race.immigrationpolicy). One of the main reasons is we muslims get involved in miltancy wherever we go. We are still stuck in the seventh century whereas rest of the world has moved on. I should remind you that even ex President Musharraf agrees when he said “Today we are the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race”.
    We will continue to have low paid jobs until we get rid of the cancer of militancy.

    Recommend

  • P N Eswaran
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:28PM

    A very very rare article. The writer has committed the blasphemy of talking lightly of Jinnah.

    I wonder in which part of the article he has “utilized the work of Professor Gurharpal Singh”!

    Recommend

  • P N Eswaran
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:39PM

    “Pakistan has remained what Liaquat Ali Khan called a ‘laboratory’, where various Islamic principles were to be experimented upon and adjusted with the Western concepts of a modern liberal state “

    Pakistan has outgrown the laboratory stage and has become a full fledged Islamic refinery exporting its products all over the Islamic world. It is waiting for pure Islam to work its miracles.

    Recommend

  • Vijay K
    Aug 14, 2012 - 5:58PM

    @usman: “Can author please explain that why there are less than 2% indian Muslims in government jobs…”
    Because of lack of education. Not discrimination, as you suggest. Madarassa educated kids cannot become scientists, doctors, IAS officers or chief justices. Can you explain why Muslims shun modern education even if it is free?

    Recommend

  • Prabhjyot Singh Madan
    Aug 14, 2012 - 6:07PM

    A really great piece by the author. He has correctly pointed out the conditions and the results about the partition of India. I just wish that this piece could make it into the urdu newspapers as well.That is the part of population which really needs to be told the facts about this great horrible tragedy. Happy independence day to pakistan. cheerio

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  • Ehsan Khan
    Aug 14, 2012 - 6:22PM

    Good Professor Sahib. Well articulated point of view. To add to “the problems highlighted in Jinnah’s August 11, 1947 speech are still very much present,” I would say, that the problems have rather swollen both in nature and magnitude. Anyway, liked your style. Please continue to contribute…

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  • Babloo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 6:52PM

    In 1935-36 provincial elections, Mr Jinnah’s Muslim league did extremely badly in Muslim majority areas. The Muslims voted in over whelming numbers for Muslim candidates belonging to Congress. Muslim League was rejected by the Muslims and was decimated. Thats when Mr Jinnah, uncorked the ‘communalism’ genie and totally communalized his politics. The result was a electorate communalized over next 10 years and Muslim League of Mr Jinnah was the greatest beneficiary.

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  • kaalchakra
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:20PM

    Well, the hopeful aspects of it all is that after sixty years India has produced deep thinkers like spacedoutwriting.

    I hope he would share with us the federal structure that we all agree was possible but have not been able to see for ourselves. We know that a such a structure existed, that would have satisfied the Muslim League and the Congress, Muslims and Hindus at the same time, now is our chance to learn what it was.

    Spaceoutwriting, the cyber floor is yours, Sir.

    Recommend

  • Kabir
    Aug 14, 2012 - 7:37PM

    Very biased article. The writer ignores the fact that the Muslims of India (many not all) believed that they would not be fairly treated in a united India. After all, British Raj would simply be replaced by Hindu Raj (in a democratic set-up a 70% majority can easily dominate the minority). After trying for protection for minority rights in a united India, Jinnah finally realized that Congress was not willing to share power. They believed that they represented all Indians, when in truth they were a Hindu party. Thus, we needed our own separate country to live as Muslims in freedom.

    It’s very sad that the author, who is a “professor of history” fails to understand the need for Pakistan.

    To the Indians who comment here: Why are you so obsessed with Pakistan? You are here on every article with something nasty to say. Put your own house in order. What are you doing to the poor Kashmiris? Stay out of our business. We don’t obsessively comment on your newspapers. Tumharay maslay kya hain?

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  • 1984
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:04PM

    @usman:
    Can author please explain that why there are less than 2% indian Muslims in government jobs…
    This situation is not only in India,but in every country where there are muslims and non-muslims…
    There are 2 reasons for that
    1.Birth rate of muslims- An average Hindu/Christian/Sikh family has 2 kids especially after the family planning scheme introduced in 1970s,whereas an average muslim family has 5 to 6 kids and they reject family planning because they belive in “Allah deta hai” principle…And no family can give good education when there are so many kids…

    2.Lack of quality education -Most of the muslims due to poverty send their kids to madrassa where they spend their entire childhood learning a single book which doesnt have Pythagoras theorem,relativity,medicine etc. and after that they are eligible only for odd jobs…Azim Premji is the richest Muslim in india…just ask him,how many madrassa educated people he recruits in his company??

    if a muslim doesnt recruit a fellow muslim,how come u expect others to recruit a unskilled,untalented person???

    Recommend

  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:07PM

    @Babloo:

    Thats when Mr Jinnah, uncorked the
    ‘communalism’ genie and totally
    communalized his politics

    My point exactly. Gen Zia did not take Pakistan away from Jinnah’s path. He rather aggressively took Pakistan down Jinnah’s path. And ditto with Bhutto.
    Each compromised a little on moral integrity for a little more short term gain not bothering that in long term all the little compromises will eventually add up.

    Recommend

  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:14PM

    @It Is (still) Economy Stupid:

    They would have sufficient seats in
    the Indian parliament to dictate the
    agenda of the government and society.

    Muhammad Ali Jinnah was the greatest benefactor of Hindus in modern times, if he was not a Hindu in disguise.
    —Girilal Jain

    Recommend

  • J T
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:19PM

    @Sonia:
    Jagjit said the milestones were in English and in Kannada (the local language), as is the case in most of India. As for your claim that “most” pakistanis know spanish, french, and the like……well, nice joke. Refer to “Iqbal’s” post above me to get an idea of what we are trying to say about islam and modern education. The two are mutually exclusive. And, there is hardly ever a concept as moderate islam, there is only one version of the religion and this derives from the fact that a book is the word of god and it cannot be revised. This in turn makes it virtually impossible for large masses of the followers of the to have a mind open enough to new ideas, change, and consequently moderation. As it turns out, learning a non-native language, among other things, requires both these qualities.

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  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:20PM

    @Kabir:

    To the Indians who comment here: Why
    are you so obsessed with Pakistan? You
    are here on every article with
    something nasty to say.

    You have every right to be angry as long as what the Indians say is untrue. But, they do quote the truth most of the time don’t they?

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:22PM

    Tribune censorship,

    where is my comment?

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  • Musthaq Ahmed
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:26PM

    @usman:
    Because they believe in free competition on the one hand and not in privileges given to old dominant castes but to the downtrodden. Muslims and upper caste Hindus stand excluded from any social privilege. This explains the dynamism of the indian society. Please visit Gulf countries or the west . You will be surprised by the number of indian muslim professionals who prospered there. And they are scared of Pakistan and loath to mingle with us. Is that enough ?

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  • Aug 14, 2012 - 8:27PM

    @Asim Jaan:
    “….Since 1947, Pakistani Ruling Class (all educated, ostensibly liberal, conversant in English ) have USED the petty burgeoisie and lumpen proletariat (less educated, main medium of education & communication – Urdu) again and again to preserve and further their hegemoney and exploitation. …”
    .
    I fully agree with your analysis. However, you have according to me, let one of the major if not the major rogue get away lightly. Due to his deranged psyche, ZAB stopped the democratic process to take root. Loss of the bigger part of populations, with unaccounted for numbers killed, kept on going on rampage, very much in the tradition of Hulagu and Tamerlane.
    .
    Not only a religious divide but the diabolic ethnic animosity was sown by him, “Sindhis would be turned into Red Indians”.(Whatever the exact words), between Sindhis and Non-Sindhis.
    The sad part is violence can erupt anytime, with horrible consequences.
    .
    The havoc brought by him, on the society is comparatively nothing with Zia’s acts of madness. .

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:28PM

    @Sonia: I did not pass any comments on the education i Pakistan which i can see at the top level must be quite good which can be seen from the quality of articles and comments on ET(forget about the hot heads we all have them). I find fault with the Muslim leadership in India who guide a young boy to get his primary education in Urdu in a state where the official language is Kannad and the language of business is English . Please try and understand that his knowing only Urdu in Karnataka makes him virtually illiterate and unemployable . The govt jobs are for those who know Kannad and jobs in industry are for those who know English. He has been made a misfit by his leaders .

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  • gp65
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:42PM

    @Top Cat: “What a nonsensical article… I can give you thousands of examples where countries have gained independence as a result of violence, violence to get their rights…”

    Yes and in all those examples the violence would be against the oppressors not other fellow oppressed simply because they were of a different religion.

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:50PM

    “I have mentioned this earlier in this newspaper, the fact that some Muslims of India claimed that they could not imagine living in an India with a Hindu majority, had at its core, a sense of intolerance.”

    So, by opting to live in a Hindu-majority land, Muslims would have shown their tolerance. So, why didn’t the Indians live under the British rule? Weren’t the Indians intolerant toward the British by calling the very people who ruled Indians for 200 years as “foreigners”? Furthermore, why did Hindus like Advanis leave Pakistan? If I were to follow your logic, Advanis and Sikhs/Hindus who left Pakistan were the ones we should consider as intolerant toward Muslims? Agree Mr. Bangash?

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 14, 2012 - 8:50PM

    “Paradoxically, of course, Pakistan as a modern state was born in a situation where one of the basic principles underlying the modern nation-state — majority rule — was unacceptable to its founders. It is no surprise then that East Pakistanis could not get their right of majority rule.”

    The basic principle of democracy and not nation-state is majority rule. “Modern nation-states” are allowed to choose whatever political system seems acceptable to them. China and Saudi Arabia do not believe in the idea of “majority rule”. These nations are still considered as “modern nation-state”. You are confusing the idea of nation-state built upon by various factors from ethnic identity to historical imagination with democracy. None of these factors specifically spell out about “majority rule”.

    Talking about “East Pakistan”, why don’t you suggest West Bengal and Bangladesh to unite as a single entity and be pronounced as the homeland of the Bengalis? Will the Bengali Hindus accept to be ruled by Bengali Muslims who will have the privilege of “majority rule” which you spoke about?

    “Perhaps, it is time that we do not ignore the issues of the past, honestly deal with them in the present, so that we can, finally, emerge from being a laboratory experiment to a real country and nation.”

    I have no problem reading about the past. I just find it troubling that the past of this great nation is read using your lens or Ayesha Jalal’s lens.

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  • pir fazal mabood
    Aug 14, 2012 - 9:37PM

    a very good and objectively written article. hindus were never our enemies till we ruled them for centuries the partition plan cut muslims in to three pieces whether u recognise it or not but we should move on by friendly relation with india as we have so much in common and for the benefit of 1.4 billion people 0f the subcontinet.

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 14, 2012 - 10:15PM

    gp65,

    So, it was you Indians who decide who were the oppressors and who were the oppressed.

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  • Rishi
    Aug 14, 2012 - 11:17PM

    @usman:

    I am sure you don’t realise it but your question is rhetorical and self answered to boot. Why are Muslims not employed in these services to the extent of the ratio of their population? Because, all these except for the MP’s part require education and they don’t have it. Why do they not have it? India has minority reservations, economically backward reservations, minority preference colleges, etc. I am from Hyderabad, India originally and we have a saying there ” Nawab tho chelegaye lekin nawabi nahin gayi”. Padh likh tho len pahele, phir naukari, jang, jihad kar len. Aayi baat samajh mein, usman saahab?

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  • Pir Fazal Mabood
    Aug 14, 2012 - 11:32PM

    A very good objectively written article.In reality Hindus were never our enemies Muslims ruled India for centuries and had contributed a lot to its culture .We have a common history dat is why Muslim leaders like Abdul kalam did not agree to the scheme of partition. Muslims were the 2nd largest majority in India not a minority .The partition was in reality the partition of Muslims in to three parts which did it ultimately. let us move forward as brothers born to the same parents tho go their separate ways but should not sow d seeds of hatred n enmity.We should try to make good relations with India as d future of 1.4 billion people rests on peace n d subcontinent.

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  • Faraz
    Aug 14, 2012 - 11:38PM

    @Muhammad Saad:
    Funny funny funny.
    Rivers change course all the time and the will of a river to change course is determined by the river and by time. Fools and pompous bigots don’t have a say in the matter

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  • Iron
    Aug 15, 2012 - 12:30AM

    @MSS:
    I agree with you 100%, but I dont understand when Altaf says the same thing he suddenly becomes RAW agent.

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  • Vijay K
    Aug 15, 2012 - 1:13AM

    @Kabir: ” What are you doing to the poor Kashmiris?” Oh? and what are you doing to your poor Balochis, Christians, Hindus, Ahmedias, Shias, Sindhis (sorry if I missed out some more non-sunni minorities and non-muslims). By the way, Kashmir is doing far better than POK.The professor and head of department in my college in Delhi was a Kashmiri muslim. Do you have comparable examples in Pakistan from POK? And he became a professor on merit, not because he was a muslim.

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  • kaalchakra
    Aug 15, 2012 - 2:46AM

    Well said, zeeshan. Indian arguments are absurd, to say the least.

    They justify their ‘freedom’ from the British, but they seem totally surprised at the thought of giving the same freedom to Muslims.

    They oppose the partition of ‘India’ but insist on partition of Punjab!

    They say they ‘accept’ Pakistan’s reality but treat the Two Nation Theory as some form of madness!

    They say they want to build a better ‘future’ but have no time for forgetting the past like Mumbai.

    All one sees in Indian positions is endless, constant series of one absurdity after another.

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  • 1984
    Aug 15, 2012 - 3:35AM

    @Zeeshan:
    So, by opting to live in a Hindu-majority land, Muslims would have shown their tolerance.

    Dafuq did i read??? I don’t know that common sense is so uncommon amongst you….if you Muslims are so tolerant as you claim to be,then why there was a partition at the first place?? They could have lived under a Hindu majority rule in an United India stretching from Afghanistan to Burma….Why there was a two-nation theory by the tolerant muslims???
    Besides,can you explain why Shahrukh’s parent migrated from Pakistan to India ??

    China is a communist state and Saudi Arabia is a monarchy…These two places are worst in terms of human rights and even your country,Pakistan,can boast of better human rights,freedom of press,minority protection… Honestly,from which madrassa dictionary did you learn the definition of democracy???
    Democracy is a govt of the people,by the people and for the people and thats the reason,muslims can even build a mosque in Ground Zero just next to a structure their brothers had demolished….I dont think you will ever understand it unless you get a visa to a Western country

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  • Aug 15, 2012 - 4:16AM

    @Iron:
    >”@MSS:
    I agree with you 100%, but I dont understand when Altaf says the same thing he suddenly becomes RAW agent.
    You are right. Whatever, Altaf says he is attacked in unison. Tacit understanding?Recommend

  • Maria
    Aug 15, 2012 - 6:11AM

    Sorry Mr. Bangash but a new generation of Pakistanis like me couldn’t care less about the ghosts of partition. We are Pakistanis simply put. Whether or not Indian Muslims are doing well or not doing well matters little to me – they rank in the same league as Muslims from Sri Lanka or Sudan or any other Muslim nation. I am more interested about what is going on in Pakistan and its people.

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  • GoodQuestion
    Aug 15, 2012 - 9:15AM

    WOW!!!

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  • Indian Catholic
    Aug 15, 2012 - 9:55AM

    @1984: Azim Premji is the richest Muslim in india…just ask him,how many madrassa educated people he recruits in his company??
    .
    In addition, the Azim Premji Foundation which has a $2 Billion endowment from Mr. Premji is committed to imparting modern education to underprivileged children in both rural and urban areas as it sees education as the biggest force multiplier to lift Indians out of poverty.

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  • Prashant Rajput
    Aug 15, 2012 - 11:26AM

    Amazingly portrayed the erstwhile Pakistan and its past. Allowing the real reasons to come to the fore without any mitigation by the writer proves his mettle beyond doubt. Having acceded to the notion that Pakistan was born amid violence, yet disagree with persistent attempt of intelligentsia of Pakistan to undermine the strength of the secular forces in Pakistan. Bigotry can not be overcome unless People with unquestionable credentials pick the gauntlet and initiate an endemic revolution against the contemporary events across Pakistan. Neither mention of Western Nation nor any reference to its various ways and means to shape the character of Pakistan is palpable enough to be questioned, however explicitly put forth notions which seem to me acknowledgement must be embraced wholeheartedly.

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 15, 2012 - 1:06PM

    @kaalchakra: “They say they ‘accept’ Pakistan’s reality but treat the Two Nation Theory as some form of madness!”Just because we accept Pakistan as a reality does it mean we loose the right to choose our own ideology that is SECULARISM ?

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 15, 2012 - 2:20PM

    @1984,

    Tolerance according to Hindutvadis like you is about submitting to your Akhand Bharat’s imagination. Muslim’s struggle for independence either back then in Pakistan or now in Kashmir is about viewing as you as the imperialist. Here is a snapshot of an imperialist raising his flag in Lal Chowk Srinagar on your “independence day” while locking the whole city up:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ApbTHYWLdM

    Unlike British who you argued colonized you, Indians like you were trying to win the bounty of British imperialism using your Akhand Bharat’s imagination. Rejecting your Indian’s imperialism was about refusing to submit to you and your Savarkar ilks.

    Much of land which became India changed its ownership from Muslims to British to Indians in 1947. This include Hyderabad which SRK’s mother hailed. It was not your benevolence which led to SRK’s family to stay in post-1947 land known as India. Given your nation’s constant desire to question his loyalty (including Yusuf Khan’s) and the image of Muslims you have, I found it ironic that you and your fellow Indians talked about “Muslim’s tolerance”.

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  • GOPALAKRISHNAN
    Aug 15, 2012 - 2:26PM

    @usman:
    Dr Abdul Kalam,Dr Zakir Hussain, Mr Ansari, we have too many. All lived like Indians with no claims for any Minoroty/Majority status

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 15, 2012 - 3:01PM

    “China is a communist state and Saudi Arabia is a monarchy…These two places are worst in terms of human rights and even your country,Pakistan,can boast of better human rights,freedom of press,minority protection… “

    What are you babbling? Where does human rights entered the idea of modern nation-state. If human rights were the yardstick to allow the creation of a nation-state, your country India will be a non-existent entity. http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-india

    “Honestly,from which madrassa dictionary did you learn the definition of democracy???”

    well, in madrassa, they only teach us how to fire up AK47. Once in a while, they teach us how to remove pin safely from a grenade.

    “Democracy is a govt of the people,by the people and for the people and thats the reason,muslims can even build a mosque in Ground Zero just next to a structure their brothers had demolished….I dont think you will ever understand it unless you get a visa to a Western country”

    So, which people does the current government of India represent? I am pretty sure it’s not Indians like you who is aching for the return of BJP. If democracy is “govt of the people,by the people and for the people”, then there is no such thing as democracy in the world. What we have is the “principle of majoritinism” which decides the representative of “all people and for the people”. That’s why “vote bank” is your country’s national trait.

    Owh, I never knew democracy allow Muslims to build mosque after we destroyed structures. So, did your democracy collapsed with the destruction of Babri mosque in 1992?

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 15, 2012 - 3:54PM

    kaalchahra, the absurdity is not about Indian’s view about us. It’s our own Pakistani’s view about his homeland.

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  • Sid
    Aug 15, 2012 - 4:57PM

    I hope this makes it.

    @Zeeshan: Lunacy lives under the garb of logic at most of the time. So here we go:

    ” why didn’t the Indians live under the British rule? ” –> british are from a completely different continent, who came for trade, overpowered their hosts and ruled them. How is this principal applicable to Hindus in the Indian sub-continent???

    “Furthermore, why did Hindus like Advanis leave Pakistan?”.. this probably is not down to lunacy but false education and lack of causal analysis.
    Lets see…Muslim league called Direct Action day…Muslims started the offense and achieved a separate land. What do you expect people who lived in present day Punjab to do, after a separate nation is carved out for a religion to which they do not belong?

    “Unlike British who you argued colonized you, Indians like you were trying to win the bounty of British imperialism using your Akhand Bharat’s imagination”..
    for this one you need to understand the politics of it all.. You see, Nehru also wanted one India and we know he was no hindutvavadi, and he and Mr Jinnah wanted power, they couldn’t come to terms, that lead to what is now remembered as Direct Action Day.
    If the concern for Muslims would’ve been the core issue instead of power, we would have heard of Pakistan way before we did in 1946.

    Finally Mr kaalchakra: “They say they ‘accept’ Pakistan’s reality but treat the Two Nation Theory as some form of madness!”

    You see..if a murder is committed, then a person is dead..you have to accept it, does not mean you accept the reason for murder, nor does it mean that you are trying to bring the person back to life..I hope you can make the connection.

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  • Pradeep Kalra
    Aug 15, 2012 - 5:16PM

    A brilliant and appropriate statement of facts.Coming from someone who lives in pakistan and has the courage to write this is much appreciated and well received.It is the truth and anybody who has the slightest idea of the history will agree to this.Hope the youth of pakistan reads this and gets a clear picture of what happened 65 years ago.Food for thought for those who blame the leaders of India for the partition and the bloodshed in it’s aftermath.

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  • kaalchakra
    Aug 15, 2012 - 8:32PM

    Zeeshan

    Agreed.

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  • Indian hindu
    Aug 15, 2012 - 9:19PM

    we hindus are happy that partition took place.
    we left our diseased part and the rest is flourishing.
    so pakistanis now reap what u have sown.

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  • Zeeshan
    Aug 15, 2012 - 10:10PM

    @Indian Hindu,

    Good. Now, it’s time to get rid of the cancer called Kashmir.

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  • Kabir
    Aug 16, 2012 - 12:03AM

    @Vijay K:
    India is OCCUPYING Kashmir. There is no such thing as “POK” It’s called Azad Kashmir because it is free from you people.

    Balochistan is a province of Pakistan and is our internal problem.Recommend

  • Sonia
    Aug 16, 2012 - 1:57AM

    @jagjit sidhoo:
    Ok- i get it now- earlier u did not mention that jobs are not offered in Urdu language. And the Muslim leaders are the cause.

    @J T:
    I dont really care what you are trying to say or convey- since I was not even answering you or talking to you or Iqbal for that matter.
    Since you have bombarded the conversation and just want to prove a point let me tell you that ‘read my comment again’ you will find the answer to your comment in the same comment- the ‘joke’ is not a joke- it is basically the answer to your comment.

    You say religion and ‘modern education’ are mutually exclusive. If they are exclusive of each other then there is no problem of following one or the other. if religion is static it doesn’t make one’s mind static. Reasoning isnot a product of questioning religious practices- its is a scientific approach and religion (Islam) is supported by science not the other way around. By the way Islam is not static, it is dynamic- and plz don’t take the literal meaning of dynamic like most self-proclaimed experts do. Islam has answers to all the changing conditions of the world and any that you might come up with after reading this- so it is dynamic. Don’t believe coz it is not mandatory.

    As to languages- if one can believe in the international applicability and appeal of Islam- you really think languages are that difficult to learn- the first language most Muslims who are not Arabs learn is Arabic- that is almost 75% of the Muslim population. The second is English, third Persian, fourth French (I know that coz I understand part of it) and then regional languages. I am not saying Muslims in Pakistan are better- but yes you have sort of proved that they have moved away from the Mulla stage (where there was a fight between modern education and Islam) to accepting different forms of education and pursuing it.

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  • Sonia
    Aug 16, 2012 - 1:58AM

    @Zeeshan:
    @Indian hindu:

    Do it fast – so that Kashmiris can rest!!!

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  • Kabir
    Aug 16, 2012 - 2:12AM

    @Vijay K:

    What you call “POK” is infact Azad Kashmir. It is “Azad” because it is free from Indian rule.

    As for Balochistan, it is a province of Pakistan and not any of your concern.

    I don’t know why you Indians obsessively comment on Pakistani sites. We don’t obsessively write on TOI or The Hindu. How about you mind your business?

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 16, 2012 - 10:44AM

    @Sonia: I am glad u got my point the first responsibility of parents and leaders is to ensure that the education they impart to their children makes them employable, they must have the skills the job market needs. Religious education is essential but it will not suffice if it is the only education one has unless one wants to be a religious teacher in which case also a broader education would make one a better teacher.

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 16, 2012 - 11:01AM

    @Sonia: I appreciate your language skills and i do not agree with you when u say that learning languages is easy. I will not let know my language skills as they are quite embarrassing. I am more at ease with science maths and the stock market.

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  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Aug 16, 2012 - 11:17AM

    @Kabir:

    I don’t know why you Indians
    obsessively comment on Pakistani
    sites. We don’t obsessively write on
    TOI or The Hindu.

    I believe that it was Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib who said,”Mind what’s being said and not who is saying it

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  • Gratgy
    Aug 16, 2012 - 4:19PM

    @Kabir
    Azadi means freedom, not freedom from Indian rule. Just calling it Azad does not make it so. Its like saying the erstwhile German Democratic Republic was a shining beacon of democracy.

    Balochs also want Azadi. The way you support Azadi, so do we.

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  • Waqas Akbar Gondal
    Aug 16, 2012 - 5:11PM

    Well said Sir g…..its time to be pragmatic and get out of the fantasies.

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  • Kabir
    Aug 16, 2012 - 9:28PM

    @Gratgy:
    Kashmir is a disputed area. It does not belong to India. The Hindu king had no right to decide for his population which was mostly Muslim and wanted to be with their Muslim brothers and not their Hindu enemies.

    Balochistan was never a disputed area. It is a province of Pakistan. The two cases are totally different.

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  • Aug 16, 2012 - 10:22PM

    @Kabir:

    I know history better than most. If you want to get into technicalities then the accord was that princely states had the right to choose who they will join. That is why India waited till the Maharaja signed the document to launch the attack.

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  • Sonia
    Aug 17, 2012 - 12:23AM

    @jagjit sidhoo:
    Modern education doesn’t have to be language- since your example quoted language- so I took the example.

    Every area of knowledge has been forwarded by different people in different parts of the world- and Muslims also have been part of it- just not in present times- (long gone history :)) being proud of it is nothing wrong i guess- like Hindus have mathematical knowledge acclaim.

    Modern education and religion (no matter which) have no connection what-so-ever. I simply don’t know why people have problems accepting that the human mind needs to research in all areas!!!
    Some theories have been proven wrong- if I can find support for it in some religious literature- why can’t people understand it- a religious text is still a religious text!

    And trust me learning a language is easy- its trick my Indian teacher told me- if you know a certain script- like Urdu you can learn all languages that look like Urdu and sound like it- coz your mind will process it faster – that makes Arabic and Persian.
    If you know English- then French is easier than Spanish coz Spanish has a different ‘hearing’ than French- and people who know Arabic seem to pick up French easily coz they have this throaty words in French that is in Arabic as well.
    Like you know Hindi- u can speak Urdu but reading will be difficult- but languages having a similar script to Hindi will much easier. I hope you get an idea!!!! its all about seeing and hearing :)

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  • Abhimanyu
    Aug 17, 2012 - 1:06AM

    @Thoughtful:
    May be 65 years down the line!

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 17, 2012 - 6:56AM

    @Sonia: I think we are talking about two different levels of education,i am referring to the basic level that is up to the high school level with the emphasis being on making the child employable at this level language does matter , as at that level it is mainly about documentation and associated activities. At the higher level , college and University i agree education would go beyond language particularly in the arts.Regarding languages being easy i wish i had got these tips earlier as only i know that i would not have cleared my high school exam but for a kunjee called “do dino mein SSC Hindi”. I always enjoyed physics and maths esp geometry(in which i had the distinction of being asked to solve the riders that even the teacher could not). I have enjoyed our discussion especially because it has been logical and free fro RANCOR .God bless our countries and maybe in my lifetime (i a 63) we will see a peaceful sub-continent.

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  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Aug 17, 2012 - 10:13AM

    @Kabir:

    Balochistan was never a disputed area.
    It is a province of Pakistan.

    In fact Baluchistan is disputed. Jinnah betrayed Baluchi’s trust by reneging his own promises once they joined Pakistan.

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  • Cynical
    Aug 18, 2012 - 8:05PM

    @Kabir

    The Hindu king had no right to decide for his population which was mostly Muslim

    Actually he had as much right to decide for his population as the assorted rulers of Delhi from Qutb-ud-din-Aibak to….Muhammad Bin Tughlaq to….Babur….to Aurangzeb had enjoyed.
    What goes round comes around.

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  • Sonia
    Aug 18, 2012 - 11:57PM

    @jagjit sidhoo:
    wow- u guys also have a shortcut stuff- coz here we have so many of them that education basically becomes retarded! :)

    Finally it is good to meet some one across the border with a serene sense!

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  • Aug 19, 2012 - 12:36AM

    The article is to brief to do justice to the history of the partition of India. Tying it to the Direct Action Day is too simplistic as is the notion of a prolonged history of religious discrimination. Perry Anderson, Professor of History at UCLA, has provided a much more complete and nuanced account of the factors that led to the division of India:

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n14/perry-anderson/why-partition

    His account of developments in India after 1947 is equally thorough:

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n15/perry-anderson/after-nehru

    Both appeared in the London Review of Books in August 2012.

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  • jagjit sidhoo
    Aug 19, 2012 - 1:13PM

    @Sonia: Would like to be friends on Facebook i already have 4 Pakistani friends look for jagjit singh sidhoo

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  • Top Cat
    Aug 19, 2012 - 5:22PM

    @gp65:
    Oh so it’s you who decides who the oppresor is and who’s the opressed. I’m sorry it doesn’t work that way. You would do well to be cognizant of the fact that people like Victor Turner and Joginder Nath Mandal actively participated Pakistan movement. But according to you, in the armed struggle, Muslims should have killed the Non-Muslim leader of Pakistan movement too because it was all about religion. The sooner you accept ‘had dharmi’ of Congress in denying Muslims their rights and as a consequence making Pakistan possible, the sooner your incensed and restless mind would be put to rest.

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  • Aug 21, 2012 - 10:22AM

    Inciting hatred and separation and cleansing on the basis of faith is an inhuman act.

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  • Prabhjyot Singh Madan
    Aug 24, 2012 - 2:20AM

    Give peace a chance. Our Indian Muslims are very nice. Pakistan will survive. But our Muslim brother and sisters are our priority. Almost 20 millions, they are our brother and sisters, ahmadis are Muslims under our law. I am a member of a minority faith. Qadianis are our brothers and sisters.khuda bless them . Cheerio

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  • Sep 17, 2012 - 10:21AM

    Further frankness in the partition debate needed, although this article is a great leap. What worries me in AJK (POK to some) is that if Pakistanis are so misguided about their past, present and future – then Allah help us in Kashmir – who sincerely believe that Pakistan is our lawyer, representative and saviour.

    Truth is, if the institutional ‘badmashi’ of Pakistani institutions is not stemmed in AJK and GB, then our future is doomed. In a sense, A gang of self-centered, ignorant and intolerant human species backed by ‘mass’ tendency to swallow the ever false gauntlet of ‘religious pride and superiority’ continue to thrust a dark curtain over our ambition to open up, research and re-connect to our multi-religious past. Kashmir as the cross roads of civilisation confident in absorbing difference is blocked by a Pakistan; stuck in the swamp of it’s 2 nation theory.

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  • jssidhoo
    Sep 17, 2012 - 3:35PM

    @Tanveer Ahmed (@sahaafi): Never take the advice of your lawyer . They are only interested in keeping the pot boiling and their fees coming at every hearing.

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