Pakistan rejects state role in Mumbai attacks
“I would very strongly reject any insinuation of any involvement of any state agency in acts of terrorism in India,” Pakistani Foreign Secretary Jalil Abbas Jilani told reporters after talks with his Indian counterpart Ranjan Mathai.
The two top civil servants in their respective ministries held two days of talks in New Delhi to bolster a peace dialogue undermined by fresh tensions over the Mumbai attacks and political flux in Pakistan.
Jilani said that both countries had managed to improve the level of cooperation, adding that the only way to move forward on this issue was to fill any gaps that remained.
The Indian foreign secretary, however, chose to add that the home minister had already addressed the question in some detail and had drawn attention to “the scale of the conspiracy and the extent of control”.
Of CBMs, Kashmir and friendly exchanges
Three major issues highlighted and discussed during the meeting were confidence building measures (CBMs), the Jammu and Kashmir issue and greater people-to-people contact and friendly exchanges.
Speaking to the media, Mathai said that the dialogue had contributed to a better understanding of “each others’ positions”.
“While we might not agree on all issues, we do agree that relations between our two countries have to be normalized,” he said, adding that there was determination on both sides to take the dialogue forward “with an open mind and a constructive spirit”.
The issue of peace and security was discussed in a comprehensive manner. Both sides emphasized the need of mutual understanding through constructive dialogue and both countries recognised that terrorism was a continuing threat to peace and security.
They reaffirmed the strong commitment of both countries to fight and eliminate terrorism in an effective and comprehensive manner.
The foreign secretaries had a comprehensive exchange of views on the issue of Jammu and Kashmir and agreed to continue discussions in a “purposeful and forward-looking manner” with the view of finding a peaceful solution by “narrowing divergences and building convergences”.
Finally, Mathai drew attention to the importance of greater people-to-people contact and friendly exchanges and “building a relationship of trust and friendship between the two countries.
Jilani, thanking Mathai for his generosity and gracious treatment, said that he brought to the people and Government of India a message of goodwill, peace and cooperation from the people and Government of Pakistan.
He said that talks with his Indian counterpart on peace and security including CBMs, Jammu and Kashmir and the promotion of friendly exchanges had been substantive.
“We held separate meetings for each segment which are part of the Pak-India dialogue process,” he said.
Jilani said that they reviewed progress on peace and security and agreed to convene separate meetings of the expert-level working group on nuclear and conventional CBMs.
The Pakistani foreign secretary told the media that he and his counterpart had also reviewed progress on several “cross-LOC intra-Kashmir CBMs”.
“We have agreed to convene a meeting of the joint working group on cross-LOC CBMs to streamline and strengthen travel and trade arrangements,” he said.
Jilani, agreeing with his Indian counterpart that there was no alternative to dialogue and constructive engagement, said that both countries were important in South Asia and have a special responsibility to promote peace and prosperity in the region.
“We are not only close neighbors, we are also partners in the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC),” he said.
“We make serious and sincere efforts towards building mutual trust and applying political will in resolving all outstanding issues through peaceful means and continue to work for promotion of peace harmony and cooperation,” he added.
Jilani said that he had come to declare the mandate of the leadership of Pakistan to promote bilateral relations.
“Let me assure you of our sincere desire to make every effort to resolve our differences and move forward,” he said.
Abu Jundal and peace talks
Answering a question related to the Mumbai attacks and the recent development in the form of Abu Jundal, Mathai said that Pakistan bringing the guilty to justice would be the biggest confidence building measure for Indians.
“The arrest and the ongoing interrogation of Abu Jundal has now added urgency to this matter,” said Mathai, adding that an investigation was underway and the country would “pursue this matter with determination to its logical conclusion”.
Jilani, answering the same question, said that terrorism is considered a common enemy of both countries but playing the blame game was not constructive and might hinder progress on the issue.
He said that both countries needed to go from adversarial to positive relations.
“Terrorism is an important issue and we need serious efforts for resolving it,” he said, adding that the he had assured his Indian counterpart that whatever evidence India has should be shared with Pakistan and that the country would “even be willing to offer a joint investigation into the whole affair”.
Setbacks in trade ties
In response to a question on whether the latest development in the Mumbai attacks issue would create a setback in trade ties, both foreign secretaries said it should not be so.
“The forward movement on economic and commercial cooperation between India and Pakistan is really a welcome development and a win-win proposition for both sides,” said Mathai.
He said that India looked forward to making progress on the trade track in accordance with the roadmap which has been agreed upon by both sides but at the same time, the country was very conscious as terrorism poses a continuing threat to peace and security and the full normalisation of bilateral relations.
“In this regard, we have reiterated the firm and undiluted the commitment of the two countries to fight and eliminate this scourge and bring those responsible to justice,” said Mathai adding that India expects the realisation of this commitment and looks forward to its fulfillment.
Jilani answered the question by stating, “I hope not. There should be no setback as it is something we cannot afford.” He reiterated the need for intensified cooperation.
“Our home ministries and interior ministry should meet more often and enter comprehensive cooperation in order to defeat forces of terrorism,” he said.
New Delhi suspended a four-year peace process with Islamabad after the attacks on India’s financial capital by 10 gunmen.
The full peace dialogue only resumed in February last year.
In Thursday’s joint-statement, the diplomats said that a meeting between the foreign ministers of India and Pakistan was now scheduled for September.
COMMENTS (75)
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Whether or not Pakistan admits the role of "state actors" there is no dispute that the Pakistani state has been active at obstructing the investigation, from when Guardian reporters first discovered Kasab's home village days after the attack to when the Pakistani government supplied Jundal - an Indian citizen - with Pakistani documents and attempted to have Saudi Arabia transfer him to Pakistan, rather than India.
Due to such deeds, Pakistan now "owns" 26/11, whether "state actors" were involved in its planning and coordination or not.
@Raza Khan: You can't be serious!
@Lala Gee:
Are all the commentators here, including many Pakistanis, liars and you the only one who speaks the gospel truth? You must be living in some disillusionary world full of loonies if you cannot distinguish between fact and fiction, between truth and lies, between right and wrong. You have to just step out of Pakistan -- if any other country will let you in, that is -- and you will see the reaction of the world at large to the drop of the word "Pakistani" or "Pakistan".
@Lala Gee: USA had offered a joint investigation on the Shalala incident and you refused. Does that make Shalala incident null and void. If so, what was all the seven months of tantrums about?
@Lala Gee:
Where's the proof of that story? Till Govt. of India gives a statement to that effect, it's only speculation. Unless you have solid proof, go take a hike.
@Lala Gee I am sure the moment India do that, Pakistan will disengage from Azad Kashmir.
Do you understand the meaning of Precondition?
@Zeta: at least you hear of our blunders and it is transparent and open.
As per your comment regarding bounty on Hafiz Saeed, well we may not have a clinching evidence; but we do have his name coming up after interrogation or telephonic conversation. Is it too much to ask if we are requesting you guys to further investigate ??? Well you have him as your hero, so cant expect much there, can we ?
@Lala Gee
It is rather you who is forgetting that Pakistan out-rightly offered a joint investigation which India refused forthwith
I am aware and glad that India refused joint investigation with Pakistan. If there is no trust there is no point in these joint investigations. When i meant 3.5 years, I meant Govt of Pakistan had 3.5 years to investigate. There are voice samples we are requesting (you can give it to neutral country), you can speak to guys in Kasab's village, Govt can do lot more. Its the will thats required not excuses of no evidence.
@Lala Gee:
Lalaji, Shimla Agreement of 1972 between Pakistan and India has superseded any UN Resolutions on Kashmir.
Shimla Agreement clearly states that the Kashmir is a bi-lateral issue and will be resolved bi-laterally and peacefully between the two nations. No time limit or plebiscite was mentioned in the agreement.
@Nand:
"@Lala Gee: Pakistan is a member of UN. What has stopped it of complaining to UN to take action against India on Kashmir."
Honestly speaking, I have not much of clue. Would you please shed some light.
@Lala Gee: Pakistan is a member of UN. What has stopped it of complaining to UN to take action against India on Kashmir.
@Babloo:
pakistans population is not even a quarter of india how can we send thousands while urs one billion population if pakistan sends thousands then u send millions of spies.. and u right its a crime but how can people recognize that person is a criminal ofcourse he has no sign of criminality.. if any persons occupation is crime he wud do if he is any where in the world..
both countries did something in past which is not good and both should not trust to each other its natural when u broken trust.. both countries people wants justice.. this is very complicated.. common people fighting for their defense to prove their innocence and bad people get benefits for this.. Government should resolve these problems bcoz its interrupt in the relation of India and Pakistan.. people without knowing facts just will have been blame to each other ever.. and evidence and proves very important in any matter without solid proves we cant blame anyone..
@Shyam:
"We are still waiting for Pakistan to withdraw from AJK as per the precondition for UNSC plebiscite."
@FactCheck:
"So, when is Pakistan vacating PoK for UNSC resolution to take effect?"
We know how patiently and sincerely you were waiting for the plebiscite. While the world in UNSC was passing resolutions and your prime minister was assuring Kashmiris and Pakistan for the plebiscite, India was secretly busy in promulgating the article 370 in the year 1956. To show your sincerity, first revoke article 370 - which claims Kashmir is integral part of India - and write a letter to the president of UNSC indicating India's willingness to hold the plebiscite. I am sure the moment India do that, Pakistan will disengage from Azad Kashmir.
Irrespective of who paid Surjeet, spying is not a crime in my opiniuon. All countries do send spies to gather intelligence information on other nations. Pakistan can send thousands of spies to India, as long all they want is to collect information about India, its abilities and intentions, for defense of Pakistan. Its when you send spies to India to perpetrate terrorist attacks like 26/11 , that it becomes a crime. Its when the state, trains, arms and provides false identity and passports to terrorists, to perpetrate terrorist attacks , that it becomes a crime.
Nothing new..
@Maz3tt: Problem is that Mr DEF and HIJ have also confirmed it.What do you want -the evidence of four eyewitnesses like in rape cases
@Lala Gee, @Hi There Have you read any of Surjeet's statements lately. He says that he was paid some money to spy by BSF (Border security force) guard). In his own eyes therefore he was a spy. On the other hand since he was not employed by RAW or any of India's spying agencies, Indian government would be quite right in stating that he was not India's spy. Or are you now going to believe some of Surjeet's statements and not others?
@Maz3tt: "anyone can get some statements and documents from Mr abc and say it is your proof."
The document in question was Pakistani passport and NICOP. On this basis, Pakistan was trying to stop extradition of Abu Hamza to India. Also India had managed to get a red corner interpol alert out for this man on the basis for evidence already presence against this man.
Why did Pakistan try to prevent extradition if indeed this man had nothing to do with the Mumbai mayhem?
@Sunder Khan Afridi: "t is the Indo-US nexus which is actively working over time to malign Pakistan."
Ah and is Saudi Arabia part of that nexus? Why did they extradite this man to India despite Pakistan's objections?
@Lala Gee A more realistic statement would be like “One thing is clear: Unless Kashmir issue is resolved by India according to the UNSC Resolutions and wishes of Kashmiri people by holding a plebiscite as promised by India to the Kashmiri people and the world, there will be no peace.
We are still waiting for Pakistan to withdraw from AJK as per the precondition for UNSC plebiscite.
@Lala Gee:
So, when is Pakistan vacating PoK for UNSC resolution to take effect?
Facts are facts and will not disappear on account of your likes. Jawaharlal Nehru
@Sunder Khan Afridi:
World knows, and sypathazies with Pakisan. You read about it every major news paper and TV everyday how Pakistan is bieng maligned by US and India.
Soon, there is going to be UN resolution against maligning Pakistan.
@Hi There: I may agree all Indians are liars yet an Arab country KSA deported Abu Jindal for supporting Pakistan terrorists on 26/11. They deported him only after India submitted the evidence. KSA has supported Pakistan in times of need many a times. Would you call them liars or they betrayed you.
@Lala Gee: Well that was funny to me! May be u dont find that funny coz that implicates your state.
@Lala Gee: 'But strangely India refused to give access to Ajamal Kassab.' Please do not distort the actual. There was an understanding between the two govts that Kassab will not be met or questioned.
@Polpot:
"One thing is clear:Unless Mumbai 26/11 is resolved by Pakistan to India’s satisfaction, there wwill be no peace"
A more realistic statement would be like "One thing is clear: Unless Kashmir issue is resolved by India according to the UNSC Resolutions and wishes of Kashmiri people by holding a plebiscite as promised by India to the Kashmiri people and the world, there will be no peace.
I've completely stopped taking indians serious after they said Surjeet Singh is not their spy, lol liars, Pakistan should not respond to allegations from such open liars.
@Maz3tt: You mean like how the blasphemy law usually plays out? Such double standards. Can you prove someone said something blasphemous without involving simple verbal testimony from the biased accusers themselves? No. Yet, they'd be the most likely to lie. Turning them in, in the first place may have been a lie and if they'll do it once, they'll most certainly have no issues with a second time. They wouldn't have brought the topic up if they wanted any outcome other than certain, severe, punishment. They'd probably even exaggerate to make sure the person is convicted.
...and it even carries the threat of a death sentence. Nobody who supports that law should question India's statements citing hard, physical, evidence.
@Lala Gee: Five replies trying to defend the indefensible. You are going to get a fat bonus.
the indian foreign secretary has a weird head.
@akash:
"The guy offers joint probe to Indians, I mean really, what was he thinking. Its been 3.5 years Mr. Secretary if you have forgotten."
It is rather you who is forgetting that Pakistan out-rightly offered a joint investigation which India refused forthwith. Then Pakistan sent a judicial commission to India in order to carry out the legal proceedings in India as required by the laws of Pakistan in order to punish the 7 accused, but strangely India refused to give access to Ajamal Kassab and the witnesses for cross questioning by the defendants' lawyers. There was obviously something sinister which India wanted to hide otherwise there was no reason to deny the defendants their legal right of the due process of law.
@gp65:
"When someone keeps on lying naturally they are not trusted."
And India and Indian people speak nothing but truth and whole truth all the time, and never play a foul game. Right? Please keep your self-righteousness to yourself, We know how saintly India is.
India should attack Pakistan. Limit has been crossed.
@Zaid Hamid:
"We deny this as usual."
You don't look as funny as usual. I guess, you didn't get the check.
@Shailendra:
"Exactly the same way, they were not involved in OBL hiding….."
And you were guarding the place, weren't you?
@Tony Singh:
"Mr. Jilani you may strongly object but the evidence concretely proves the involvement of Pakistan state"
And now you're gonna play the prosecution, jury, and judge all-in-one game by yourself.
@mr. righty rightist:
"Honesty is not in the lexicon of Pakistan"
We know how honest India is. These statements made by India were not too distant in the past.
“We deny it (because) we do not do this kind of thing,” he said in response to reporters’ questions about whether the freed man worked for government agencies.
“Neither do we do spying, nor we send spies,” the home secretary added.
"He said that India looked forward to making progress on the trade track in accordance with the roadmap"
The insincerity of India is so obvious when she talks about the road-map for trade but refuse to accept the idea of a road-map for solving the real issues like Kashmir and Sir Creek.
Same old record, same old BS, only different faces ! Why even bother to waste time with people, who live in self denials about everything in their lives ?
@Naveed Javed: We are one ?? When did this happen? ;)
We Pakistanis believe in seeing no evil, hearing no evil & saying no evil & that is how we are solving all our problems since 67 years.
One thing is clear:Unless Mumbai 26/11 is resolved by Pakistan to India's satisfaction, there wwill be no peace ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
@Rana: Claming to have links to a foreign agency is one thing but to furnish the hard facts is another. Please provide the facts sir. Rgds P
anyone can get some statements and documents from Mr abc and say it is your proof.
Just going by the tile 'Pakistan rejects state role in Mumbai attacks.' Okay state is not involved. But at least hang those that who you believe are guilty. Is that too much to ask for?
Honestly, I do not understand why is Indian Govt talking to Pakistan. It was very rightly suspended after Mumbai and should remain so until they set their house in order. If anything we are doing a favor by talking to them. The guy offers joint probe to Indians, I mean really, what was he thinking. Its been 3.5 years Mr. Secretary if you have forgotten.
@Oopsie!!: Common Sense is a rare commodity
Are Pakistanis expecting us to be surprised by this so expected denial. Of course Pakistan will not accept that there were state actors involved.
what is the need for state actors when state actors can train non state actors to carry out the killing bombing missions. Even if you complain for the nth time , Its not me ,its one of my servant who threw garbage from my house into your house.
@Ahmer Ali: "Never forget Pakistani leaders that India shall never trust your any statements whatever you say and only you trust Indian leaders’ statements."
Perhaps that has something to do with the hostory of statements made by Pakistani leaders? 1. 1965 war was started by India (untrue) 2. Kargill did not include any Pakistani soldiers (untrue) 3. Kasab is not a Pakistani (untrue)
When someone keeps on lying naturally they are not trusted.
What goal would Pakistan achieve by such act? No military installation was targeted, no government officials/offices. Utter rubbish. Common Sense should prevail.
It is the Indo-US nexus which is actively working over time to malign Pakistan. The world should know that Pakistan being the victim of terrorism emanating from Afghanistan is in no position to sponsor terrorism against any other state.
Mr.Jalil Abbas Jilani while posted in India, was expelled from India for distributing money to Kashmiri separatists. That is proof of official involvement in it self.
Tired of this denials, time to bomb those state sponsored militant camps around POK (Muzffarabad), that's the only language these rogue agencies will understand.
Exactly the same way, they were not involved in OBL hiding.....
We deny this as usual.
Mr. Jilani you may strongly object but the evidence concretely proves the involvement of Pakistan state .
Seems like Mr. Jalil Abbas Jilani is trying hard to suppress his giggle.
Seriously it is time for India to take some serious steps. Enough of talks,dossiers,proof..
Why it’s always Pakistan to provide excuses?? Whereas each and every terror activity happened in Pakistan have confirmed links with India.
You know - I dont really care whether they convict the mumbai attackers in pakistan - I think Pakistanis should only worry about who killed Saleem Shahzad - the brave journalist - that will help unravel many other stories - what disheartens me is seeing Pakistan's best anchors defend the famous deep state.
It is foolish of India to expect Pakistan to acknowledge the involvement of state actors.
Pakistan is not India. India was also foolish in investigating the Samjhauta express blast honestly and expose its military men who were involved in it.
Honesty is not in the lexicon of Pakistan. That's why it's a failed state.
if pakistan could reject presence of Bin Laden in their military camp, then why not this?
Never forget Pakistani leaders that India shall never trust your any statements whatever you say and only you trust Indian leaders' statements.
It hardly matters whether Pakistan accepts or rejects what Abu Jundal is saying. He is singing like a lark and the international community can sift the wheat from the chaff. Pakistan's days of fomenting trouble may be over soon. India must thank the Saudis for this prize catch.
Sanity required from both ends; instead of blame games, both India and Pakistan should move forward to new heights of mutual respect and shared interests; As a Pakistani I want very good term with India- After all we are all one!
Obviously ISI is a non state actor......
Hmm.. could I be any less surprised?
Tell us some thing new! We have heard this before. We are the purest, honest & god fearing people on this planet.