Indian defence minister rules out Siachen breakthrough
Antony said “no dramatic announcement or decision” should be expected, thereby by virtually dismissing any hope that the meeting offered.
“Don’t expect dramatic announcement or decision on an issue which is very very important for us, especially in the context of national security... From one discussion, you can’t expect a dramatic announcement,” Antony said.
Interacting with reporters, Antony said Defence Secretary Shashikant Sharma will explain India’s stand during the talks with Pakistan.
India’s Cabinet Committee on Security met on Thursday and discussed the Siachen issue. The gist wast that the stumbling blocks remain the same: authentication of the current military positions of the two sides.
Earlier this year, Pakistan Army Chief Gen Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani had said there should be a peaceful resolution of the Siachen issue, which had risen hopes that a negotiated settlement to demilitarise the area might be on the anvil. However, India, which had initially welcomed Kayani's comments, sought authentication of military positions to which Pakistan was opposed to.
During a visit to Siachen in 2005, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had said that the two countries should work to convert the highest battlefield into a mountain of peace.
The Siachen troop withdrawal issue has gained prominence in Pakistan following a massive avalanche which buried an entire Pakistan army forward operating base on April 7, resulting in the death of 129 soldiers and 11 civilian contractors.
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1734587529-0/Express-Tribune-(1)1734587529-0-270x192.webp "pakistan to host another icc event")
LoC is always been a temporary solution and disputed since Pakistan never accepts Indian authorization of that part of the world(Kashmir) since 1947
@ayesha_khan: You are absolutely right here on your this stance and Indian Held Kashmir and Siachen are not the parts of India and Indian government is forcibly controlling these areas.
@mikek: "Excuse me, Siachin is a Pakistan territory which Indians have occupied. How can you say its Indian territory to begin with. Go and read some unbaised history."
Go and read the SImla agreement. The line of control defined by NJ9842 and thence North. See where Kargill is.
@the Skunk: "India sneaked into Siachen in 1984 and agreed in 1989 but back-tracked later from implementing the agreement. You cannot trust them"
Per Simla agreement Siachen was Indian side of line of control, yet Pakisan started showing it in its map and sending expeditions from Pakistani side. Finally when Indian intelligence found out that Pakistan is planning to occupy Siachen, Indi got there first. This fact that Pakistan was planning to occupy Siachen is agreed and admitted by your military leaders also. So nothing sneaky that India did.
In 1989 Rajiv and Benazir had talked but it had not been discussed in the cabinet and no agreement had been signed. In the cabinet, the defence ministry stated that demilitarization is fine but AGPL should be authenticated. Whole cabinet agreed. Pakistan did not want to authenticate and so no agreement was signed. SO the question of agreeing and going back does not arise. The defence ministry's stance was proved correct when Pakistan invaded Kargill right after signing a peace treaty with India.
you can continue to not trust India if you like but the world has seen through Pakistani's double games now. India has credibility that Pakistan lacks.
@pakistani: right he is intrested in solving terrorism first.
@Tribal Insafian: ha ha goodone
Check out the way Indian newspapers have reported this event. They seem to be gloating that they have lost less soldiers than Pakistan; to them, it is all about strategic advantage. They don't care about our men or our lives lost http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/india-will-not-give-up-tactical-advantage-over-pakistan-in-siachen/articleshow/13914634.cmsv
Pakistan has become used to having things handed to it on a silver platter. No more! There is no such thing as a free lunch. India will never forget 26/11, Kargil etc etc. If you sincerely wish peace, how come the Mr. Hafiz Saeed's are allowed to roam free in Pakistan as heroes?
Pakistan should announce that glacier is Pakistani territory and will occupy the territory first chance it gets. Then move it's forces at lower/safe place. Let India stay at glacier and suffer.
This is not new statement from the Indian leadership because on every core and burning issue between India-Pakistan the Indian leaders have been showing the same attitude.And this is all just due to Indian leaders' insincerity and dishonesty to resolve the core and burning issues especially Kashmir and Siachen the hindrances in the true,strong,stable and permanent friendship between India-Pakistan.
Why should India agree on Siachen? We are the ones who have just suffered a very serious accident taking away precious lives. India sneaked into Siachen in 1984 and agreed in 1989 but back-tracked later from implementing the agreement. You cannot trust them. Salams
@Babloo:
You Indians come and occupied our lands and wanted to authenticate it as well. You will be out of your mind.
@John B:
Excuse me, Siachin is a Pakistan territory which Indians have occupied. How can you say its Indian territory to begin with. Go and read some unbaised history.
Extremely pragmatic statement by the DM. n there is no way that india will pull out of siachen unless boundries demarcated... fyi, coz of the peaks that they hold, avalanches dnt really happen over the side of the indian troops but is a constant threat to the pakistani side of it...
@DB: Per Simla agreement the line of control is NJ9842 and thence north to the glaciers. So Siachen is on Indian side of line of control. Occupying it does not constitute aggression per Simla agreement.
@Ali: "All those idiots hoping to trust Indians " +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In Indo Pak relations the governing principle is: Trust but Verify. Indian stands seems to be in line with that.
After Kargil and now dragging its feet on Mumbai attack, our Pakistani friends expect India do drop its guard when it comes to our defenses. Dream on!!
The Siachen troop withdrawal issue has gained prominence in Pakistan following a massive avalanche which buried an entire Pakistan army forward operating base on April 7, resulting in the death of 129 soldiers and 11 civilian contractors. Bottom line: India can somehow tolerate the costs of putting up troops on Siachen peaks, Pakistan cannot and therefore playing 'dove'.
@ Zillur Rehman
Very valid points made, very apt too.
Pak wants everything on its own terms. Authentication would imply an admission on where it is and where it shall stay.
On the Indian side, withdrawing without authetication would imply undoing all that happened since the early 80's which is not acceptable.
For its own sake Pak needs to realise the futility of its stand . If only the Pak Army could eat the humble pie. Yet, if it does , what may seem as a loss would be an amazing victoty for Pak & the PA.
@DB: How about we go back to the Simla agreement?
Do you know the implications for Kashmir as per Simla agreement? I am sure Indian would not have any problem following Simla agreement in spirit as it was literally dictated to Pakistan after 1971 defeat.
For Pakistan to sleep over Mumbai 26/11 case while the murderers get VIP treatment and continue hate speeches, expecting give and take is really living in dreamland. The country has overestimated its strengths and conducted relations with neighbors at the same time feeding and strengthening its non state actors. India like "Smiling Buddha" will keep talking and smiling, no longer fooled by words spoken but by deeds. Pakistan has over the last decade through its actions has conveyed to the World that it cares little for what others think, sympathies are with the terrorists like OBL, Hafeez Saeed, Haqqani and Mullah Omar. Yes, Pakistan will be an oasis of Peace with the hosting of these characters. Let the Establishment continue on its merry way and keep hitting the nails into the coffin. Crying Wolf while acting like a Jackal means no one will come to help when the real wolf is at the door. Wake up !
For Siachen India fears that if both Indian and Pakistani troops withdraw, China will move in. Is that fear unreasonable?
You have to understand the Indian psyche. They will never ever do justice. The only language they understand is power. Rest they just keep playing with novice Pakistanis.
My suggestion is that the Indians must do what they think is in their best interest and Pakistanis must should do what is in Pakistan's best interest. Where there is convergence, fine. If not, I would not worry about it but keep progressing at the suitable pace possible. . Look at how USSR and USA who were sworn enemies at one time developed independently of each other. USA ended up being highly successful because the people in USA adopted a progressive immigration policy attracting brilliant minds and talent from everywhere while USSR was essentially closed to immigration and lagged behind. There are lessons for India there.
All i wish to say is that political leadership of the sub-continent should sacrifice their ego and start thinking of humanity and peace.
Thank you Mr. Defense Minister. I am Glad to know that you are as Hopeless as your Pakistani counterpart! Happy Fighting ..
First of all, we should understand that Pakistan has come forward for talks on Siachen only because they couldn't bare the operational cost anymore. Secondly, India has never asked for a pull out of troops. So, stop pretending as if you a peace loving country trying to make peace with India.
It should give up the dream of linking with the Chinese army at the Karakoram Pass. It cannot win through negotiations what it coudn't win on the battlefield. Pakistan does not lose anything it hasn't already lost if it agrees to India's proposal for authentication of current ground position followed by demarcation and marking of boundary on ground and on paper. In fact, Pakistan wins peace and avoids future fatalities by agreeing to the Indian proposal.
The only stumbling block to resolution of Siachen is Pakistan's refusal to do the abvious - which is recognize and authenticate current position, Remember, the Siachen dispure arose in the first place because the line of control was not authenticated there. So the only solution is to authenticate the current line of control in Siachen and agree never to violate it. So you can see who is being unreasonable and the stumbling block. The report is clear.
It is a common sense that if PAK does not agree to authentication and Simla agreement , then India is not going to come down from the mountain. Why should Indians give Saichen that is theirs to begin with?
PAK has to learn to live with her neighbors peacefully, which is asking too much , I know,
Seems like most of the people above cribbing about India's stance just read the headline and not the article. Good job ET, some of your reporters do quite job in "implying" rather than doing un-biased reporting. Anyways for the dumb people here, read the article, what Antony said is practical and not selling dreams like Pakistani officials do. Siachen cant be de-militarized by simplying pulling the troop back, this way any one side can venture into possibility of sneaking into other's territory. What India wants is a final solution which Pakistan is not going to agree. So simply put this whole tamasha as, Kayani made statement which he himself knew would not be possible unless Pakistan makes a radical change in it's stand on Siachen. So Antony or India in that matter is not blocking the breakthrough in Siachen, the ball has always been in Pakistan's court.
He is waiting for same sort of avalanche on Indian troops as well........intelligent!
All those idiots hoping to trust Indians will soon find themselves I deep trouble. Pakistanis have short memory of what fat panetta said in India about Pakistan
Pakistanies speak of Simla Agreement. Could ET reproduce the Simla Agreement in its entity ffor both Pakistanies and Indians to read and digest so that we can see where in the agreement India agreed to withdraw from the glacier for Pakistan to re occupy.
ET let us stop this mud flinging.
Siachin issue cannot be solved in isolation. The core issue of Jammu & Kashmir needs to be first resolved. Let the LOC(line of control) become the official international border & both countries allow kashmiris on either side of the border to travel & trade amongst each other. Pakistan needs to be practical about the Kashmir issue, as it cannot take India's half by military force(impossible) or through international pressure(again impossible).India has enough resources at its disposal to play the waiting game which Pakistan simply cant afford.
I don't have any interest in how relations between the two countries will be maintained whether from Siachen point of view or of Trade, as during the last 65 years, both the countries have not been able to reach to any conclusion including the core issue of Jammu and Kashmir.
After few years more people will go beyond the poverty line in India, but India will keep on testing its nuclear missiles, instead of eradicating poverty.
I don't consider that India is any more a welfare state and this is one of the reasons that more and more Indians are migrating to other countries and those who cannot afford it have no choice except to clap with both hands when a new nuclear missile is fired in the air from an unknown location.
they themselves don't want peace and then blame us for the unrest,...hypocrites
@Wonderful: The current military position is a result of Indian aggression and breaking the Simla agreement. How about we go back to the Simla agreement?
indian defense minister is official representative of the indian government. his disappointing and premature comment infers the expected behavior on India, who is not interested to resolve the issue of Siachen. it is usually seen, Indian representatives change their positive bahavior with Pakistan, when the uncle sam`s representatives visit India.
A breakthrough is a validation of the AGPL so that everyone can go home. The Indian defense minister has just said that this may not happen immediately, so let's not have any such expectations.
A lesson for the so called liberal of Pakistan, who don't wast time to blame Islam and Pakistan.
@Tribal Insafian: India's position is clear: 'authentication of the current military positions of the two sides'. Will Pakistan agree?
This would be just like liberalizing the visa policy that did not happen. When they cannot take one small step, how can they take a major step. If Pakistan and India become friends and live like normal neighbors, what would happen to the living standards of our deep state? What would happen to the hate speech and two nation theory? The more the hostility the more the need of strength of the WMD and armies and less money for bloody civilians. Education, healthcare and civic needs can wait and we can live on grass.
I am so shocked...not.
Why would he? Mr. Panetta must have had an impression on him.
Atleast we wont get the blame for lack of breakthrough. The liberals of this country love to blame the army for lack of peace with india when its clear that they have their share of hawks too standing in the way of peace.
Misguiding headline. He's simply telling reporters that there could be major breakthrough, it doesnt mean that nothing would move forward.
Good job. India broke Simla agreement by invading Siachen glaciar and will keep sending its own soldiers to their deaths just so they can say that they're sitting on the heights.
I'm so shocked......not
Now link this article with my comment on the ET editorial "On Testing Missiles" The moral of the story is: "Aman ka Tamasha".
"Indian defence minister rules out Siachen breakthrough" Stupid Headline. Indian minister is preparing the public not to expect an ultimate solution in the first round of discussion itself. Let each side explain their stand and after many rounds of discussion, a solution can be arrived at. That does not mean India or Indian minister has ruled out Siachen breakthrough. The same story happened in the discussions about visa. After everyone agreed on everything. Pak Interior minister threw the spanner in the works. So anything can happen in India Pak discussions. Be patient. That is the gist of the message from Indian minister and not the headline as put up by ET.
Surprise suprise! will these two ever be able to work anything out???