This was when the government made airports, and as with all things the Indian government takes up, our airports were clumsy and barely functional. But a few years later this changed. Today the airports at Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore are pretty good. They are not world class (nothing in India can ever be), but they are not embarrassing as the earlier ones were.
The differences that I had thought were significant, turned out not to be so.
This led me to think of how similar we were as nations. Not in the sense that Mohammad Ali Jinnah meant. I think it is fairly obvious that the character of India and of Pakistan is different when we observe their Constitutions. India’s secularism is fundamentally Hindu in its nature. Pakistan’s Constitution is Islamic by design and in appearance. Though this is an important aspect of nationhood, it is only one aspect.
What I mean is how we are one nation in all the negative aspects. It is difficult to find a country whose people are more filthy than those in India and Pakistan. Our neighbourhoods and streets are among the most shameful in the world because we are selfish and blind to the concern of others. Delhi’s drivers are as terrible as those in Lahore (and the women of Delhi and Lahore would concur on the behaviour of the loutish men of those cities). Half of us are illiterate and the half who are literate don’t really read much. The comments sections of Indian and Pakistani websites are the most dreadful in the world, without qualification. Hateful and pedantic, the product of minds who are only functionally literate. We think time will bring some big change in our society but it is not easy to see where this change is going to come from.
I know of few other nations where people would not be embarrassed at the thought of keeping servants. Few cultures would be so unaffected, so uncaring of privacy to not mind the constant presence of a servant in the house. I am not even talking about the bestial manner in which we treat them, because every reader of this piece, whether Indian or Pakistani already knows what I mean.
We divide ourselves into nations based on things like which animal the other eats or does not eat. The outsider probably sees no difference between us, and rightly so.
We produce very little that is of meaning to the outside world, and it is tough to think of what our contribution is to the nations from whom we take so much. In science and technology we have nothing to offer the West, despite the boasts of Indians that we gave the world Arabic numerals and zero (I agree with that; we have given the world zero).
Pakistanis stake claim to Islam’s golden age. The Jang columnist, Hassan Nisar, often takes up this point. He says that the Arabs laugh when Pakistanis own Islam’s achievements. What aspect of the conquest of Spain or the scientific revolution in Baghdad did Punjabis and Sindhis participate in?
To the world we are one people in that sense.
My friend Colonel (retd) Iftikhar, from General (retd) Pervez Musharraf’s batch in the Pakistan Military Academy, said he discovered this horrifying fact when he went to Makkah a few decades ago for Haj. He met some Saudis, one of whom asked him where he was from. “Lahore”, said Ifti. “Where’s that”, the Saudi asked (this was in the 1970s). “Pakistan”, said Ifti proudly. “Where’s that”, the puzzled Saudi asked. Ifti took out a map and pointed. “Ah”, said the Saudi to his friends, “he’s Hindi”.
Our problems are so primitive that they should make us stop and mend ourselves immediately. But they don’t seem to affect us at all. Our media carry on like we are normal people. Reading the militant bombast of the strategic affairs experts in newspapers of these two nations, the outsider would never suspect that these were two nations unable to even keep their public toilets clean.
Published in The Express Tribune, April 22nd, 2012.
COMMENTS (107)
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I hope it is not offensive to Indians but to me Aakar Patel is the ambassador (more of the generic than the goodwill) of the Indian Media/Intelligentsia to Pakistan. He is speaking India's problems to Pakistan and not sure whether Pakistani problems to his Indian audience. He makes us feel like we know India.
@Ravish: I agree with Huma that in 2003/2004, Delhi airport was like a fish market. India seemed like it had not developed at all since 1947.
@RS: Is GDP a good measure of people's happiness? I remember when I was young and India's GDP was quite low, I was still happy, felt secure and satisfied with the general environment, education, law & order and my parents seemed ahppy with the job opportunities. Like Pakistan we didn't have fancy cars or color TV's but we were all very happy. Bhutanese have very low GDP (I think) but their people seemed happy. It seems teh definition of happiness is different for different people. I understand teh situation in India is now different with so many below the pverty line.
@Lala Gee: This way of thinking is due thank to 'Pakistan Studies' started in late 70s.....
Indians and Pakistanis are the same? Not when you read the comments here. Indians are opposing them being equaled to Pakistanis whereas the Pakistanis like it. I love when someone says I look like Hrithik, but I don't think he would appreciate this comment. Figure it out.
@Indian:
"dude first read history and then make foolish comments. Pakistan came into existence only 60yrs back. Before that it was all one Indian subcontinent."
What a foolish statement "all one Indian subcontinent", and by virtue of common name (which was not even the case as it was called Hindustan by the locals then. Only the British started calling it, in English, "British India" including Burma), full claim of it's ancestory goes to India and the people living on the east and west sides of the subcontinent have no right to the claim. By analogy, can the United States of America claim the ownership of both the continents of "north America" and "south America".
I guess you also need to open up your mind and study the Atlas of India at wikimedia.org. It has numerous maps of the Subcontinent covering from pre-historic period to the recent times. Just check when India became what it is today. During all of her 5000 years of history, it was never never a single state. Even during the British rule, it was divided into dozens of princely states. It became India what India is today only after 1948.
@Lala Gee: Army is neither hindu nor muslim nor Sikh. So plz don't confuse the atrocities done by Indian Army with Hindus. If you want to say atrocities are done call it Army did it. Hindus and Muslims lived next to each other for 1000s of years and even today despite some people wanting to promote communal-ism we are living peacefully.
Yes, agreed 100%,
@Lala Gee: "mid 60′s to mid 80′s" The date today is 23rd April 2012. You are in a new century now....
@BRUISED INDIAN:
"Grow up and grow some brain matter while you’re at it!"
Thank you for your advice. I really do my best to learn further and am ready to accept my mistakes, If you say that there never had been such thing as "Hindu Paani" and "Muslim Paani", then I accept my mistake, which is usually hard to come by from Indian side though. However, if you watch old Indian movies of mid 60's to mid 80's, you will see many such examples of apartheid social conduct depicted in the movies not only against Muslims but also against their own low cast Hindu Dalits.
@Rahim Khan:
"I totally agree with you. Thats why if we love the kashmiris and the sikhs so much, we should stop sending terrorists that side to kill them. Regard".
Yes, "our terrorists" should not have killed 90,000 of our Kashmiri brothers during their freedom struggle of 1990's as well as 5,000 Sikhs in 1984 riots, and our army should not have attacked Golden Temple with tanks and again kill 1,500 Sikhs fighting for their independence. How bad it is that even now "our terrorists" are killing Christians and burning their churches in India, and how cruel is it that they did not even spared Babri Mosque and demolished it with hammers. Really too bad.
The two nation theory is so utterly baseless that i dont know where to start. It was coined by those who only wanted to serve a sectarian agenda in order to pursue their own political objectives because they knew full well as that nothing divides people better than religion. Muslims and Hindus have lived side by side for centuries and they still do to this day. The divide of Hindustan in 1947 was the biggest blunder in the history of the subcontinent.
I am a Pakistani who believes that my roots belong to the land of the indus and not arab.
@omar: - wow Mr Omar - what and accurately stated post ! that summarises not only exactly what i feel but i hope it does too many INdians and Pakistanis - your conclusion is the main phrase - if i may re-phrase it as " we SHOULD be very good friends and even SIBLINGS although it is rather unlikely we would ever merge " ... how i wish all of us pakistanis and indians alike could advance to this enlightened phase in our relationships whether as nations, companies, economic entities, families , clans , or as individuals . Mr Omar i hope you and indeed people like yourself will post more on this Express Tribune ... we Indians (of which i am part ethnically and part euro ) need to listen to and consider seriously the opinions of the reasonble pakistanis like yourself ....best Regards from Ms Roma .
@Lala Gee: Hindu Paani Muslim Paani??? You see thats where the problem lies on both side of the border! Get out of those Dadi and Nani stories told to you when you were kids! Grow up and grow some brain matter while you're at it!
@omar: No Omar! Its good it happened! Bigotary in those days was relatively less as compared to todays era. What happened then needs to be multiplied 50 times minimum to imagine the killings, maulings, rapes etc to analyse what would become today.
Someone in the comments section has rightly said that Pakistanis of today are culturally more aligned to Afghanistan and/or Iran. What was there has been erased; Give me one Indian Punjab Native who speaks like a Sialkoti or Lahori or Faisalabadi? It's gone, no need to dwell in the past! Look to the future and what we can become rather than "what we were"
This piece is obviously meant to comfort the Pakistani readers, look you are no worse than your neighbor, so dont be despondent.
What the writer overlooks or just cursorily remarks that while there is tremendous change for the better in India relatively, in Pakistan it has just gone worse, again relatively. About cleanliness, no issues, we are both unclean.
@trueshia:
"we live peacefully in india ,please we want NO FRIENDSHIP with these hatemongers pakis."
For your own enlightenment you must visit this link to see what your own fellow hatemongers say about you, Muslims, and Islam. If you are happy, so are we. God may protect and bless you.
Sushant
Brother, you seem to be a brilliant social scientist, well versed in understanding processes of change in different societies. You have even concluded that Pakistan "have learnt from their mistakes"! Did you reach this Nobel-prize winning conclusion after reading just one article by Aaker Patel claiming Pakistan and India were the same, and comments thereon? For the good of the world, what else does your analysis of this "new" Pakistan say?
One thing is sure Pakistan is changing very fast....they have learnt from there mistakes wh is very difficult to do so...if democracy will continue to prevails...All of us will see a new emerging PAKISTAN...
Contribution is not always about micro-chips and nuclear technologies.
Would you not describe YOGA as THE MOST (not one of the), THE MOST beautiful contributor to the world peace?!!!
Personally, I have achieved more peace since I started doing Yoga than any other time and from anything else.
@Lala Gee: I totally agree with you. Thats why if we love the kashmiris and the sikhs so much, we should stop sending terrorists that side to kill them. Regards
Suresh brother
No. At 27, Iqbal was still a child, writing today's popular school ditties that Hindus so love and admire. His mind opened to the extraordinary power of Islam and his role as the unequaled visionary of Islamic destiny later.
@Cynical:
Sir Syed -"Thus, Hindus and Muslims are not different. As the Aryans were called Hindus, Muslims can also be called Hindus because they live in Hindustan”"
This statement made my eyes pop out. I remember reading something along these lines in either Veer Savarkar’s book ‘Hindutva’ or MS Golwalkar’s (ex RSS chief) book “Bunch of Thoughts” . If I am not mistaken, this was what ‘Hindutva’ supposedly means – Thus India would comprise of all Hindus who who pray to Ishwar or Allah or God or they may not pray to any God at all… etc. …
Anyways Cynical, if you repeat Sir Syeds statement in front of an Indian Secularist like author Arundhati Roy, or politician Digvijay Singh or journos at Times Of India and their acolytes , both Sir Syed & you will be called a ‘Hindutva Fascist’, ‘Knickerwallah’, ‘Chuddiwallah’ and such.
Something tells me that the chance to have a united India with all of us staying in permanent peace might have been squandered away by the shenanigans of a few...
Aakar Patel lost the tract and went way overboard. Pakistan is not India anymore. Pakistan can be left to be Pakistan. As far as airports are concerned, the author is totally wrong. Hyderabad airport is among the best international airport for the last three years. The point is not to say we have best airports...that is not what makes a nation great. A nation is great when it was the will to question the impractical views of religion and has the will to put religion below the humanity. This is where Pakistan has failed and will never be with India. It is very important to read and write...writing ones views is different from writing without checking facts and not considering the issues why India is so different from Pakistan.Yes India is not clean and may be even worse than Pakistan but how can author assume that because of this India and Pakistan are one. That pushes this article to silly analysis.
@omar:
What a beautiful post! You are indeed a great human being, my friend.
I don't know why some hyper Indian commentators have taken the sentence ” India’s secularism is fundamentally Hindu in its nature “ as offensive. The author here probably means to say indirectly something like 'hinduism is inherently secular in nature' or 'india's constitution is secular because majority is secular (although I would like to add its not because some specific teachings, but because polytheist /nature worshipping cultures are tolerant -in matters of faith- simply beacuse they are, well, 'polytheists')
Loved it ! Please follow up with more on the Urdu media (print and electronic).
@Author:
You need to read the comments of your fellow countrymen especially someone with moniker of @amoghavarsha.ii:. Here is what he says:
”India’s secularism is fundamentally Hindu in its nature“
"This first sentence puts a FULL & BIG QUESTION MARK on your understanding of meanings of 1. secularism 2. fundamentally, 3. Hindu or 4. Nature."
"last but not least, India."
"Hope you can start up your reading/understanding again. Don’t write without understanding."
I guess you already have some idea how open minded are your fellow countrymen. They seem like living in a water bubble and the slightest hint of breeze is a danger to their safety (mental insecurity).
@Surya:
There used to be separate vessels on Railway Stations saying “Hindu Paani” and “Muslim Paani.
"I am sure you are talking about Pakistan Railways.."
Pakistan Railway did not have funds for such luxuries especially when there was hardly any Hindu left in Pakistan (you said that, didn't you?). Only rich Indian Railway could have afforded the separate facility.
@Ganesh:
"Hindus are barbaric – what a joke?"
Of course, a joke it is. Killing 90,000 Kashmiri Muslims or 5,000 Sikhs is beyond something barbaric.
we live peacefully in india ,please we want NO FRIENDSHIP with these hatemongers pakis.
allah save us :)
Ture voice of hearts u spoke today Mr Aakar Patel sahab.
@usmanx: dude first read history and then make foolish comments. Pakistan came into existence only 60yrs back. Before that it was all one Indian subcontinent. In fact Karachi had 30-40% Hindus at the time of partition.
Beautiful article!
Hi Akar, " India’s secularism is fundamentally Hindu in its nature "
This first sentence puts a FULL & BIG QUESTION MARK on your understanding of meanings of 1. secularism 2. fundamentally, 3. Hindu or 4. Nature.
last but not least, India.
Hope you can start up your reading/understanding again. Don't write without understanding. As you have said later, feel for the English language speaker's feelings of India, atleast.
@kaalchakra In 1893, Allama Iqbal was still a child, largely unfamiliar with Hindus.
But, in 1904 when Mohmd.Iqbal sang "Saare Jahan Se Achcha" he was 27 year old mature adult!
Cynical bhai
What both the great Quaid and Allama Iqbal taught is that 'unity' with the Hindu is a matter of ignorance. As a good Muslim gathers more experience working with the Hindu, the Muslim realizes that Hindus and Muslims are fundamentally apart, and Muslims must work toward faith, unity, and discipline among themselves.
Sir Syed was a very intelligent man who made sure that fellow Musliims were not duped by crafty Congress which was a Hindu body working for Hindu interests.
The great man was motivated by one and one valid fear - for Martial Muslims not to be ruled by the short-dark stone worshipers the Bengalis and Madrasis. That is why Pakistan must succeed even today. Our differences are the same as that which existed in the minds of such great visionaries as Sir Syed Ahmed, Allama Iqbal, and the great Quaid, Mohmammad Ali Jinnah.
Dear Mr Patel, I agree, we are selfish people when it comes to our social responsibilities. I can understand it as a Hindu why its so, but fail totally when it comes to Muslims. In Hinduism individual is responsible for his "Karma" and the outcome. We pray to God individually, unlike Muslims and Christians in groups. Our "Rishis" go to deep forests to meditate, unlike Muslims who assemble in large numbers in mosques. Some of our Sadhus keep untidy hairs and apply ash on their body. In Hinduism the emphasis is on inner cleanliness and not on external. Is it this what is responsible for our unclean neighborhoods? I am not sure if I agree with all your points. Please tell me what west gave to the world till about few hundred years back? Name me few items which India required from west till about 1700? It does not serve any purpose to look at India through western prisms. What all west gave may be a boon according to you, but not me.
@Lala Gee: "There used to be separate vessels on Railway Stations saying “Hindu Paani” and “Muslim Paani”.
I am sure you are talking about Pakistan Railways..
@Sapan Kapoor: Good! Now stop that drool! It is so uncouth for an adult! @American: "Pakistanis and Indians deserve to be where they are." I don't know about Pakistan, but I assure you we Indian are quite happy where we are!
@author "The comments sections of Indian and Pakistani websites are the most dreadful in the world, without qualification. Hateful and pedantic, the product of minds who are only functionally literate."
This is even true for this article. Look at many comments from your fellow countrymen, I can only say sorry on behalf of any ignorant Pakistanis.
Similarities… well my left hand is as dark as my right hand…got the same finger prints…. but… it’s a ‘LEFT’ hand! Similarities won’t make it a near substitute of a ‘RIGHT’ hand.
The issues you raised are overwhelmingly common across the 3rd world and may be you could find striking resemblances in the mind sets and even governance and politics.
But that close likeness is not even half the story…. it doesn’t matter that you find striking similarities between India & Pakistan and many other countries for that matter, the reality is we have evolved into fundamentally different people, just like our left & right hands… with all the similarities there are both are still different. Likewise same antidotes are no likely to work on both sides of the border.
@indians There is no need to take everything written about India so seriously.
@kaalchakra
I don't understand how and why you invoke Allama Iqbal and Jinnah.I mentioned Sir Syed. Probably you swallowed a little more than your daily doses of hate pills and jumpedthe gun.
I think one of the most sensible things being talked about these days is liberalizing of the visa regime. This, more than any pep talk by any bureaucrat or politician, would serve to bring down the divides that have been artificially created over the last 60 years. It will prove the exact point that the writer is emphasizing; we are essentially one people and this realization in itself is a very humbling experience. Any attempt by any party to assume sense or arrogance or superiority swills away in an instant.
a good piece...media should teach the people on the aspects pointed by the author.
Oh yes! I forgot to mention my world class airport- got two international awards already. The Hyderabad airport. Mr Patel should make a leisurely trip to the south, then he would know what is progress!. And about mumbai, although my dad was a mumbaiker, I must admit that even foreigners who work there consider it their home. I hope they help in keeping the city clean- the city that never sleeps. and also when I was in KSA I had two colleagues, both arabs, one was Al Hindi and another Al Malabari, and when asked what their names meant, they said that their ancestors were Hindi.
Cynical
In 1893, Allama Iqbal was still a child, largely unfamiliar with Hindus. Just as the Quaid was when he was called the Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity. Iqbal's great Islamic awakening, like Jinnah's, was to come later, with experience of working with Hindus.
@Cynical:
"In your long list of differences you forgot to add ‘the propensity to abducti and force conversion/marriage of girls from minotities’"
Looks like "Self-pity" is a national disease of India.
We produce very little that is of meaning to the outside world, and it is tough to think of what our contribution is to the nations from whom we take so much. In science and technology we have nothing to offer the West- The above statement is not correct. The TATAs have shown their technological might. The other day I was talking to my British colleague that the Tatas are running the Jaguar show well. He quipped' they are a big name in the technology sector. There are many like that. I donot remember from the top of my head. Where’s that”, the Saudi asked (this was in the 1970s). “Pakistan”, said Ifti proudly. “Where’s that”, the puzzled Saudi asked. Ifti took out a map and pointed. “Ah”, said the Saudi to his friends, “he’s Hindi”. Correction: I have lived in Saudi Arabia for 10 years and they do know there is a country called Pakistan.
@Cynical:
"We eat the same food, the same water, breathe in the same air. Thus, Hinuds and Muslims are not different. As the Aryans were called Hindus, Muslims can also be called Hindus because they live in Hindustan”."
As much as I wish that to be true, but, unfortunately, the reality on ground was very different. Although we both used to eat a very similar food and drink same water (just as matter of convenience as it was really difficult to produce different waters for each), but wouldn't share the utensils and even wont dine on the same table. Touching by a Muslim or Dalit required a Brahman thorough wash. Even the wells were not shared among the two. There used to be separate vessels on Railway Stations saying "Hindu Paani" and "Muslim Paani".
@Sapan Kapoor:
"I wish India-Pakistan could be two-nations-one-soul. Let’s have friendly relations with each other. Let’s do away with the borders and barriers that separate us. Let’s open our borders and hearts for each other. We are one people. We are brothers. You are no different than me and I’m no different than you. We are two sides of the same coin. Let’s stop this hatred and bloodshed. We can be two nations and still be friends. We are family. Issues can be resolved without shedding blood and sacrificing precious lives, through love and harmony. Love from India ♥"
Couldn't appreciate more for your noble and humanistic views, but you need millions more like yourself to make anything good happen to the people of Subcontinent. If you count how many Pakistanis commenting here are appreciating and wishing for good relations with India, you will find only yourself from Indian side while other Indian commentators are flying high on arrogance derived from their self proclaimed righteousness.
@Ashok:
"We may have been one at some point of time in the past. But, at this moment, I would be embarrassed to be called a Paki! Nor would I like o be traveling on a Pak visa, God forbid!"
Hate breeds hate - and people like you have already sown enough seeds of hatred that have now grown into full tall trees laden with fruit. You think only you can look down upon Pakistan, while the reality is that most people here have reciprocal views about India and anything Indian. So, congratulations for achieving great success in this aspect, in-spite of failure in other fields.
The parameters you used for proving that 2 Nations Theory doesn't exist are shaky. One can relate them not to India and Pakistan only but many other countries of the world too. I have seen filthier slums in Singapore, China, Phillipines to name a few.. Talking about servants, people in Arab countries import servants to work in their houses.. We divide ourselves into nations based on things like which animal the other eats or does not eat... I fear that's not the case. There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan who are Indian nationals for sure, Its not about nations, its about Religion. The only similarity I see in this state of affairs is that both the sides are adamant on gaining Siachen AND both are still trying to find the similarities and differences. Let's just be HUMANS!!!
Interesting angle.. however,, just reflecting one side of the coin and completely ignoring how both the nations have created their own identity on the world platform. One being tagged as "land of terrorist" and another going to be "the super power" in coming years.
"No nation is perfect.. it can never be."
However "how one strives to be become perfect" matters . and matters the most. There will always be similarities and differences between the nations which were partitioned. Its as natural as two brothers from same mother take different paths of life!
@Khurram: Hindus are barbaric - what a joke?!!!If it were true,no muslim would have existed in Indian sub continent and certainly no Pak or Bangladesh!!!
@usmanx
In your long list of differences you forgot to add 'the propensity to abducti and force conversion/marriage of girls from minotities'
Dear Author, please read the contribution of Aryabhatta, Shusrusha, Brahmagupta.. all the calculations of NASA and invention of latest surgical equipments would never have been possible without these luminaries.
The multinational cosmetic companies till date could not churn out a single product which has a better effect (naturally) than any of the ayurvedic products discovered 5,000 years ago.
However, I agree that the people in the sub-continent are quite similar just like the latin americans or Africans. So, there is no need to write an article on this.
@Omar
Agree with you brother.You might find the following interesting which incidentaly debunks another popular myth that Sir Syed Ahmed Khan was the Pioneer of two nation theory.
Iqbal Ali, in his book “Sir Syed ka Safarnama e Punjab” quotes Sir Syed as “ Of the word “nation”, I mean both Hindus and Muslims. That is how I define Nation. It does not matter what their religious belief is because we can not see it and what we see is that despite us being Hindu or Muslim, we are governed by the same rulers, we benefit from the same sources, we suffer from droughts equally. That is why I define the people living in Hindustan as Hindus.” On Page 139 of the same book, Sir Syed is quoted as “I do not think Hinduism is a religion, rather any one can call himself Hindu. Thus, it pains me today that despite living in India, I can not call myself a Hindu”. In an essay written by Sir Syed which was published in Aligarh Institute Gazzette on 12 June 1897, he wrote, “We have been living together for centuries now. We eat the same food, the same water, breathe in the same air. Thus, Hinuds and Muslims are not different. As the Aryans were called Hindus, Muslims can also be called Hindus because they live in Hindustan”.
@author - what's the point in comparing chalk and cheese. Last two articles - this one and the one in outlook have been an exercise in over simplification and broad generalization. After setting so much expectation with your earlier articles this one is a disappointment.
@Truthbetold: But those are really rich people,not middle class who keep servants
Just Brilliant Sir...
@gp65:
"“I know of few other nations where people would not be embarrassed at the thought of keeping servants”."
Not true. In many other countries the rich call them butlers, chauffeurs, chef's, chef's assistants, caretakers, gardeners, house cleaners, nannies etc.
The troll goes inter-national. Ind-Pak were one country, so what's the discovery here? And, to spill forth your mental drivel, Mr. Patel, without taking a holistic view of countries and cultures, is a sure way to get published. If you must, attack the governments of the two countries, not the people. People carry the twin burdens: of the past and of almost-colonial governments. Support those who are challenging the government (Anna Hazare) and ready to take lathis and bullets. You instead are being a coward.
We may have been one at some point of time in the past.
But, at this moment, I would be embarrassed to be called a Paki!
Nor would I like o be traveling on a Pak visa, God forbid!
What a reality check, Aakar Patel !!!. Yes we are two bodies one soul. :)
I couldn't agree more with you AAkar
I would agree with the author, and his overall message of 'go take a hike' to our griping about our troubles and that somebody else was responsible and should help solve them.
I would also agree that contribution to science is in no doubt important and largely missing, and that we are given to collective sloth, as opposed to the caucasian fetish to 'create order' in nature and their affairs.
However, we should still appreciate that multiple world-views are important, that the European world-view has no doubt contributed immensely to civilization, but that in itself is not sufficient to wipe out others. We have indeed taken sloth to extremes, but one of outcomes has been an amused eye for the mundane, and 'accomodativeness' to site another.
While the west defined nationhood on exclusivism, and filled modern history with wars defining it, we are at peace with a tapestry of nations within us and jostling amongst themselves is second nature.
So yes, we have a lot to introspect, but not necessarily from a western prism.
Spot on analysis! Crassness of the subcontinent can also be watched at the Wagh border! Political class needs to mature and in case of Pakistan need to be free from subjugation by the Military.
India may not have created anything world class so far, but I don't understand why would it 'ever' remain like that. I am not able to relate to this pessimism. The author himself has pointed out that the airports have considerably improved. There is a lot of baggage to be cleared, but there is a definite movement in +ve direction. I am sure we will eventually resolve the issues one after the other. We may be slow, but we will get there. I am not saying it from the emotional point of view but from the changes we have brought in last two decades. Just recall how unclean our cities were back then.
Find the write-up to be too simplistic while describing India..! India's contribution to the world science , literature , music, lifestyle is seen from eyes of white skinned historian, who is biased. Who can deny that Rocket technology was developed by Tipu Sultan in Mysore, IPR were stolen by Britishers. Testimony to this is acknowledgement by NASA. Whether its Sanskrit which gave so many words and Vedas to world. Running down the India ( not present geographical state , but also pre-partition days) will not take away the contributions India mas made. Its people who ignore who are the losers. As regards the psyche of Indians ( all south asians) ..I think we are better off then mind sets of White American or Europeans who had so many religious / racials wars ..even continue to kill each other even today . no continent has lost so many innocents lives as in Europe and America. Yes, point taken, we South Asians have to progress ( in terms of hygiene, public behavior etc..). But have you seen Football matches in Europe..? have you seen European cos polluting the shores , or polluting the soils of other countries by building big dirty factories? ...!! Scale of dirty neighbor..may be much smaller for South Asians..!!its matter or perception.
Good article. Overstepped and over simplified at some places but paucity of spce might be reason.
Culture is more important than religion. In subcontinent religions might have changed technically but religiosity and spirituality have remained same. What changed is influence of middle eastern money and influence in Pakistan. They became vassal sate of Saudi and other Sunni states who are high on petro dollars.
These are only people who are proud of being ruled by invaders and they go to any extent to please the masters even converting to their religion.
Moguls and britisher didn't rule with their own country men, ther was no need. They found plenty of Indians to help them rule over their fellow countrymen. No where will you find this trait but in subcontinent.
Buddy, though I admit that there are many things which can be improved or changed in India, things are not as bad as you point them in your article. What have we given to the world.. India is now a model for democratic setup and has displayed extraordinary tolerance for it's diverse cultures. Thousands of NRIs returning back to India are not fools..they see what India can offer compared to other nations.
So my friend, before dissing your own nation and comparing it with a failed state, please note that you are one of the 1 billion reasons your country is what it is today...have a nice day.
India is a huge country and very diverse. If one thing is applicable to one part, it may not be applicable to other. I agree with the author that that there are more similarities than difference when it comes to Pakistan but this similarities only exists with North and Central India with Pakistan. When you travel down south, you will see lot of difference wrt to culture, tradition, literacy rate, women (not like Delhi/Lahore) and several others. If someone believes in Two nation theory then why just two considering diversity of India. But nation is not built on differences but similarities. Nationhood binds together despite the differences
Love this part "....the outsider would never suspect that these were two nations unable to even keep their public toilets clean."
A lot has changed in KSA. When i was there in the last decade everybody knew Pakistan and India were different. Indians are still called Hind. There is a different treatment for Indian and Pakistanis. Suffice it to say that more than 90% of the family drivers are from India.
Mr. Patel, “he’s Hindi”." is a much respectful expression considering their ignorance and hubris compared to what they often call us Pakistanis, "hanood a berberi " barbaric Hindus.
Great Article! I wish that my fellow Pakistanis and Indian brothers realise it ASAP that we have had enough! Now we should become good neighbours to each others and stop harbouring terrorism/hatred on both sides of border. I am confident and hope that this is not impossible and can be doable from the leaders of both side. Cheers!
India's soul lies in Mohenjodaro and Lahore, and Pakistan's soul Lies in Ajmer and Dili. No matter what Baal Thakerays of India and Zaid Hamids of Pakistan Say.
One couldn't agree more. Its my Beloved Country Pakistan's intentionally designed false love affair for Arabs and hate mongering for India which has driven this nation to clueless destiny and unintended consequences. As per my observation, Pakistanis as a nation, don't know to choose friends and foes. India is Pakistan and Pakistan Is India.
Good one. Some people have been wrongly accusing that Hindu girls are being 'forced to marry' Muslim men in Pakistan. We know for sure that every year hundreds of Muslim girls are forced to marry Hindu men in India, in Gujrat, specially, where Mr Patel comes from. So, although there is no evidence against this accusation against Pakistan, Indian Gujrat and some backward parts of Pakistan may have some similarities.
At first I thought this would be another Indo-Pak rivalry blog/article but I really loved reading the whole text. Thank you very much Aakar Patel for showing and writing about another perspective. :)
Wonderful one-off anecdotes to strip us of our uniqueness. Pakistanis think they are Arabs... Arabs laugh at us, consider us "Hindi". All old and tired statements. Please understand that it is not a matter of whether we think or not...
Generally speaking, Pakistanis and Indians, Pakistan and India are different in: genetics, overall genetic composition, religion, culture, rituals, linguistics, diet, ethnicity, governance, pre-history, civilization, race, complexion, geography, topography, philosophy, script, cuisine, music, entertainment, perception, outlook, soico-politics and economies. source: http://wp.me/pOeMY-L3
very well written article. Yes,its true we are on nation socially,economically,culturaly. The world doesnt see us differently.it never did.
I wish India-Pakistan could be two-nations-one-soul. Let's have friendly relations with each other. Let's do away with the borders and barriers that separate us. Let's open our borders and hearts for each other. We are one people. We are brothers. You are no different than me and I'm no different than you. We are two sides of the same coin. Let's stop this hatred and bloodshed. We can be two nations and still be friends. We are family. Issues can be resolved without shedding blood and sacrificing precious lives, through love and harmony. Love from India ♥
Wonderful piece of writing sir...Hats off !!! ur article remindZ me of ARVIND ADEGA's novel ie WHITE TIGER.... sub continent region share the same values... n filth as well
Mr Patel, If you go looking for similarities, you will find lot of similarities between India and pakistan. If you go looking for differences, you will find lot of differences between India and Pkaistan. So what matters is your perspective and also applies to comparing apples and oranges.
Are you kidding me? Delhi terminal 3 is by far one of the best airport terminals I have seen. I know you are writing in a Pakistani column as an Indian, and want to avoid flattery, but that doesnt mean you should downplay them altogether. I do agree with you that Bombay and B'lore current airports although a bit glitzy are still behind their international peers, but Delhi airport is a marvel and sits right at the very top among world class airports. You may google the images and have a look for yourself, although seeing it in person is a totally different experience.
lol I AGREE!!! :D
Well written, good message. Pakistanis and Indians deserve to be where they are. The proper moral values of society promoting humanitarianism are no where to be found.
When they die and stand in front of Allah to complain about what they faced, I'm sure Allah will remind them of all the potential and intelligence that was given to the people of these countries (as shown by the success of those who move to other countries). They will also be questioned about all the physical resources their lands had. They have no one to blame but themselves.
Can't be more agree with you
interesting.... not important in the context of the article but i was at the delhi airport in 2004 and that was pretty chaotic and disorganized... any change for the better is good.... :)
On the most basic parameter, GDP per capita, India and pakistan rank at 130s in the world... It's ridiculous for these countries to even try comparing themselves with those countries where people are, on an average, 20 times richer than us...
We people need to smell coffee, thanks Aakar..!
Just see the countries we rank along with and could we set our priorities right accordingly...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofcountriesbyGDP(PPP)per_capita
Well you should know a Berber not Arab led the army for conquest of Spain Secondly most of Arab do not mind Pakistani owning achievement of Muslim in Spain and Baghdad since we are one ummah
Sir, i am glad you wrote this. I agree with you completely and sometimes wish there had never been a partition in the first place. it seems so cynical to me to think that just because we had different religions, we could not coexist. That is a blatant bold-faced lie. Our ancestors were one and the same and we are both a part of india. my own grandparents came from india and told me they never wanted to leave. I am a pakistani but i am also an indian as are all of my fellow pakistanis. Growing up i often felt nauseated by the war-mongering rubbish i was told about the same country my own ancestors came from. Indeed, i know more about ancient india and our shared history than i know of the middle east. I feel my connection with indians than i do with arabs. however, while It would be nice to think our countries could settle their differences i do not ever see us joining together. we can be friends and siblings but i doubt we would ever merge.
First, people from West, South and East of India have very little in common with most of Pakistan, so there is no need to tar us with the same brush - women in Bombay happily party till the wee hours of the morning. Delhi and Hyderabad airports are world-class - and Delhi has been awarded the most improved airport award in 2012 by the World Airport Awards (It is also in the top 10 airports globally which handle 20 - 30 mn customers annually). Second, India's secularism may be Hindu in character (based on the majority population), but its constitution isn't. Third, household help are a feature in every country with low labor costs - how you treat them depends on how your parents brought you up. Fourth, India did give the world the Indo-Arabic numerals (including zero) as well as Indian philosophy across multiple ontological sub-divisions - but we need to respect it first instead of expecting the world to do so. I am not even going to respond to the rather silly variant of 'you are what you eat'. Yes, in terms of public cleanliness and hygiene our performance is deplorable; We also need to work towards creating broad-based and inclusive growth if we intend to make an improvement in any of the actual negative aspects of our country -including those in your extremely negative article. Pakistan can fix its own problems.
"I know of few other nations where people would not be embarrassed at the thought of keeping servants".
Many nations in Africa, Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia etc. - it is a norm to keep maids. OF course, in Singapre and HK, maids come from Philippines, Sri Lanka or Indonesia. Still...
yes indeed sir.
Do not know anything about one or two nation theories but this much I know we are the biggest hate-mongers and hypocrites of the world. Hope India does not follow our foot steps.