Pakistan rejects India statement on Hafiz Saeed evidence
Foreign Office Spokesperson Abdul Basit said that "overheard statements" do not qualify as evidence.
Earlier today, Indian Foreign Minister SM Krishna while speaking to the media in New Delhi had said that India has handed over all evidence related to Jamaatud Dawa founder Hafiz Muhammad Saeed.
Krishna had said that Pakistan should initiate legal proceedings against
The Indian foreign minister said that bilateral talks will be held between Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Asif Ali Zardari, during the latter’s visit to India.
The United States had recently announced a $10 million bounty.
US State Department spokesperson Mark Toner had clarified earlier on Wednesday that the Rewards for Justice notice against Saeed was not for ‘information about his whereabouts’, but to ‘seek evidence that can be used against Saeed’ which will pass “judicial scrutiny” and lead to his conviction, conceding that the information US intelligence and other agencies had thus far was not sufficient to earn them a conviction.
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@vasan: You are absolutely right because and Indian government has to hand over USA all the evidences against Hafiz Saeed because US' government more and more needs of the evidences because US' leaders say that this head money on Hafiz Saeed will be the "sweetener" for them who want to provide us evidences.Actually against Hafiz Saeed there are no any evidences found for the involvement in any negative activities against any one any where and US' leaders are taking revenge from Hafiz Saeed because Hafiz Saeed is opposing openly,bravely and courageously to re-open the NATO's supply route from Pakistan and heading the Difa-e-Pakistan movement and Hafiz Saeed ain't terrorist at all.Hafiz Saeed is our religious asset and the asset can never be handed over any one and we can protect/secure/defend Hafiz Saeed at any cost.
I strongly suspect it is India that is putting up the $10 million amount. US just announced.
@G. Din: Please take your time. You are destined to remain frustrated.
@Pakistani:
r u actually not understanding wat m saying or just pretending??...
bounty is "one" form of accusing but not the "only" form of accusing...if u understand...well n good...if u dont...no comments
@International observer: Pakistanis are determined to defend this person because they believe that he is not a terrorist. Obviously he will not be handed over to any other country. If anyone feels that he should be handed over only because India or US think that he is a terrorist then he is sadly mistaken.
@Yash: Why. Accusing someone and placing a bounty is totally different. If u r so happy with what uncle Sam is done. Why don't the police in India put a bounty on every unsolved crime in India. Then the police can sit at home and wait for the call from the public to solve the crime. Lol. U guys just don't get it.
@S.Lal: and indians are really narrow minded
@Pakistani:
then stop accusing indians....putting a bounty is not the only form of accusing sum1....
and btw...one person does a crime....another person accuses him...and the criminal says...see i havent accused you so i am innocent....
read with ur brains n not with ur eyes...if u understand what i mean
@Asif Butt: Leave them yaar, there are so many Hindu extremists in India speaking against Pakistan or attacking muslims and no one even dares to punish them or even talk about their punishment!!
Nothing new. Pakistan denies every crime it has committed.
@Asif Butt: Asif Bahi. They can't because they don't have any concrete evidence.
@Yash: That's why we don't have a bounty against any Indians. What is the point of making these statements. Make relevant statements.
ALL INDIANS
You guys have been sending us the dossiers consist of 300-400 pages based on fake allegations. nothing could be proved against Hafiz Saeed so far. Our Supreme court has already cleared him from the charges you put upon him. Now what the problem with you guys?
@Raj - USA: You know I agree to what you've said. You have been rational.
But there are soem more things which Im sure you all know as well , regarding Pakistan.
We dont have a very good justice system. We never had one.
We dont have a good democratic history either.
The life of millions of Pakistanis living in Pakistan is as tough and as un-noticed as the pleads and call for justice of Indian complaints and international concerns.
You have to understand that its not Indians or the global community who are being denied the proper attention and response required by Pakistan to stay in tact.
Millions of Pakistanis have been waiting for so many decades and will further wait for some more.
You see people from different countries all around the globe , be it Americans , Saudis , Afghanis or whoever , they have come and contributed negatively to the slow recovering & immature democracy of Pakistan.
What I am trying to say is , that no doubt wrong is wrong and will always be considered wrong.But if millions of Pakistanis have to go through the same sluggish and over ageing process of waiting for justice , how can we provide a better , speedier and cleaner form of justice to anyone else ?
I mean its easy for a super power like US to just collect some excuses and come to a decision of putting someone in their hit list.
But specifically for our first neighbour India , they have to realize that this is not a reflection of corruption or lack of determination. Its just a matter of going through the system.
I will say again that we are trying to improve and we are improving. But you cant just start accusing people you dont like based on the hate that they preach. And in a country like Pakistan , if its takign time for justice , it is NOT AN INDICATION OF LACK OF COMMITMENT OR RESPONSIBILITY.
@mr. righty rightist: keep guessing , as usual ...
Asif Butt writes "No dude ! I dont wanna argue with someone who thinks hes always right."
My name is Righty Rightist and not Righty Right. Guess you need to look up the difference in the meanings using google.
as usual.....
@mr. righty rightist:
No dude ! I dont wanna argue with someone who thinks hes always right. Mehrbani bhai ...
Foreign Office Spokesperson Abdul Basit said that “overheard statements” do not qualify as evidence. . So if I witness someone planning a terrorist plot those "overheard statements" don't constitute evidence? Depending on the credibility of the witness you may not get a conviction but you can certainly get an arrest warrant.
@Babloo: Yar Babloo sab , please !
We invite everyone & anyone from any part of the world , to come to Pakistan and file cases against hafiz Saeed in our courts.
Why go for tribunals in the US .
The world is full of religious mad men , I agree.
But please , true justice needs more patience than anything.
Its very easy to declare someone in another country as criminal and put price on his head.
But that can not necessarily suffice for justice.
I am a Pakistani , but I totally agree that we have lost hold over religious extremism. BUT , only to a verbal level. Not practical.
Let me assure everyone , that all those people who have taken part in bomb blasts , or even terror outside Pakistan; they are NOT PAKISTANIs , they are NOT EVEN MUSLIMS .
And India should be least worried about anything related to Pakistan. They are our neighbours . All they need to do is come here and file their claims in a court of law ( and keep influencing it diplomatically later ).
It is not right , and specially what the US has recently done by putting a price on hafiz Saeed is very wrong .
For those who are talking about UN Resolutions, there is also a UN Resolution, voted by China also that declared LeT as a Terror Organization. Yet, LeT is the founding group of DPC and functions openly. Today's statement from China blaming terror groups from Pakistan is not just a coincidence. China at one time had its interests to support Pakistan. But is moving away from this position.
@MarkH:
"It’s pointless to act like Pakistan would ever convict a terrorist."
Pakistani courts; and, of course, civilized world's courts, don't act like US civil/military courts on the briefs of Administration and we don't have prisons like Guantanamo Bay or Bighram Airbase where no law is applicable. The laws of the land demand sound proofs to convict anybody, doesn't matter if he is actually guilty or not.
@A2Z who writes "”India should implement UN resolutions first then we will do the same”"
Looks like you think implementing UN resolution is like playing gully cricket. First you do and then we'll do...hahaha.
U need a greater understanding of the resolution. You can start by googling the meaning of the word resolution.
@BruteForce...wowww Indians are acknowledging that they are not implementing UN resolutions... lollls...you delibrately didn't comment about last line of my comment which offers the solution. The deal should be..."India should implement UN resolutions first then we will do the same". But I know you won't accept this deal because you will be loser.
Your deal is nothing, we are already in that situation...
@kaalchakra: "No, Pakistanis do follow a completely different rationality than Indians do. We have to understand each other’s rationalities. Irrational people do random, unpredictable things. In Pakistan you see an unchanging, completely predictable pattern. Indians (and Pakistanis) who attempt to “convince” each other are wasting their time. The most important thing for us is to understand each other as precisely and objectively as possible."
This is teh first time I actually agree with what you are saying.
@Bilal, Gilgit and Baltistan, are not considered Kashmir by Kashmiris. Kashmiris consider people of Gilgit and Baltistan, as tribal people, not Kashmiris. Sheikh Abdullah, the Lion of Kashmir, asked Nehru ( who himself was a 100% Kahmiri from the valley of Kashmir ) not to be concerned about G and B, as no Kashmiris live there. So Pakistan has only 3% of Kashmir, and that's the area around Muzaffarabad.
@Asif Butt who says "Please make public the evidence. What is that evidence which everyone talks about but NO-ONE discloses ?"
I'm sure there are strong reasons for not making the evidence public. These evidences are for the court to verify and not for the public.
Not only will such publicising leads to conspiracy theorists, propaganda and other issues, they also reveal the method used for obtaining the evidence.
The crime has taken place in India and the criminal masterminds were living in Pakistan. This means, India can only provide some evidence in the direction. It becomes the duty of Pakistan too dig deep and come up with solid prosecutable evidence. This is possible only when there's a political will. However, in Pakistan's case, since these terrorists are state assets, why would they investigate further? Why would they want their strategic assets to be inside jails?
I hope it's not that difficult to understand!
@Asif Butt:
excellent idea....
@Bilal:
ur really really funny....UN resolution says pakistan to pull out all troops from kashmir first...FOLLOWED BY india
as far as my knowledge of english is concerned...it means that pakistan removes its troops...india removes its troops...referandum in whole of kashmir....matter finished...
i cant remember when was the first point of resolution was abided by...maybe u can enlighten me...
S. Lal
"Pakistanis are irrational".
No, Pakistanis do follow a completely different rationality than Indians do. We have to understand each other's rationalities.
Irrational people do random, unpredictable things. In Pakistan you see an unchanging, completely predictable pattern.
Indians (and Pakistanis) who attempt to "convince" each other are wasting their time. The most important thing for us is to understand each other as precisely and objectively as possible.
I think kasab is the only fake evidence they have thats why they dont want us to approach him
@Bilal:
Okay so?
I cant buy land in Kashmir, not because Kashmiris stop me but my own Govt does.
But, housing is a tiny matter, I am just glad that we are harnessing the hydro power of Kashmir on such a great scale!
Plus, you say half of Kashmir is in other's control. You are right. Another reason NOT to implement UN resolutions. Correct? Dude, think about the arguments you give. You have actually just justified what I have said before. Thanks.
@BruteForce What resolutions are you talking about?
FYI half of Kashmir is in possession of Pakistan and China.. *:)*
As far as I know Indians cant even buy land in Kashmir valley, this shows how much Kashmiri people loves India!
ALL INDIANS ( & the world )
Please make public the evidence. What is that evidence which everyone talks about but NO-ONE discloses ?
A similar situation had risen when the US wanted to start attacking Afghanistan , and the Americans sent some delegation to Pakistan. Then later Musharraf said that he has seen the proof and has been satisfied to ally with the US against Afghanistan.
History should not repeat itself like this.
Lets be rational & realistic.
Please bring open the proof. Please be clear and transparent.
Why or how not will there be justice when there is CLEAR & PERFECT evidence ????????!!!!!!
@A2Z:
Fine, then we have a deal, you keep Hafiz Saeed and his blood sucking philosophy and we'll keep Kashmir and all its beauty. We both wont implement our respective resolutions. Deal?
You fell right into it, didn't you!
@All Indians Why Indians hate Hafiz Saaed? who is he? where is he from? what does he want? I dont know.
@All Indians But Every Pakistani do want pullout of Indian troops from Occupied terrritory of Kashmir whether he is Mohajir, Punjabi, Saraiki, Sindhi, Pathan, Hazara, or Balouchi.
@butt jee: "@somebody1: ...If that was so easy US or India would have tried that long time ago." All in its own time!
@International observer: Oh and what about Indians whose whole Army army is doing terrorist activities by killing thousands of Kashmiris and hiding Hindu Terrorists like Bal Thackaray?? Fact is that Indians cant bear any criticism from anyone, inside or outside their country!! If you have any concrete evidence against Hafiz Saeed, why dont you just show it to the whole world? I have an advice for you: Call yoursef "Hindu militant" instead of "international observer"!
Mumtaz Qadri has even confessed and there is strong witness against him. Has he been convicted? No.
The issue is that Hafiz Saeed being a national hero like Mumtaz Qadri and OBL can not be punished and if ever something to happen to him will be mourned nationality like OBL.
Pakistanis have this attitude "we will believe the crow is black when we say so". The best approach of Indians should be to "create thousands of 26/11" in Pakistan. Then they will undersand.
Indians are asking Pakistanis to follow UN resolution on the basis of fact that we Pakistanis have been asking for the same thing since 1948. But they forget the irony that India never implemented UN resolution...First do it yourself then come to us.
@all the pakistanis supporting hafiz saeed and/or citing lack of evidence....
being an Indian...for once...lets agree to ur belief that theres no evidence....now,
You morally lose the right of blaming india for:
1> terrorism in pakistan 2> water issues 3> balochistan crisis and other smaller separatist movements
after all....WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE??
@Abid Javed: How cute!
Saeed is a priceless religious, political and military asset for Pakistan. Why would Pakistan hand him over to India or US?
Wow a foreign office is rejecting evidence against head of a terrorist organization banned by UN. What happened to statement of cooperation with each other to get rid of terrorism in Pakistan and region? Spending lots of ink and air time defending a head of terrorist organization=epicenter of terrorism? Standard Operating Procedure: (1) Ask for Evidence (2) Rreject evidence presented as not worth written on the piece of paper (3) Our investigators will conduct the investigation (4) May be house arrest or arrest (5) Present only weak evidence or none in front of the court (6) Court let the terrorist go due to lack of evidence
@Mr , righty , I agree with your opinion ..The only way is to bankrupt pakistan through its military by threatening it with new and costly weapons now and then and slowly pakistan will come to line...I cant see any other way in dealing with pakistan and I am not for war at all but just imagining what options does india have really other than the above ?.
'May Allah protect Pakistan from all conspiracies theories.
"Foreign Office Spokesperson Abdul Basit said that “overheard statements” do not qualify as evidence." lol haha man indians are silly.
@Gul Khan: or is it Pakistan's split personality? Irrationality has become a permanant mental trait in pakistan.
No amount of denial by Pakistan can exonerate Saeed
@afaq: Pakistanis are really irrational.
Pakistanis are so full of themselves that they are willing to defend a terrorist and make sure pakistans name goes to fust in international eyes! How ridiculous can a population be, that openly sides with terrorist organizations. Pakkistani courts and prosecutors will never ensure a case against Hafeez, for fear of retaliation, and threats to life. Everyone knows that. Yet Pakistani bloggers are supporting this man, knowing how seriously its undermining pakistans image in the world.
@Abid Javed: Pakistanis are irrational.
Pakistan is a country in denial.
You can wake a person from his sound sleep but can not awake a person who pretends to be in sound sleep.
@mr. righty rightist: In your dreams only..
It's pointless to act like Pakistan would ever convict a terrorist. All the waiting is getting boring as well. If you want to get embarrassed a second time so be it. It won't happen tomorrow but people are going to break you of your strategic asset addiction at the next most convenient time. Because Pakistan houses them, there's room to breathe. But in the bigger picture of the conflict, it won't be over until the ones in Pakistan are dealt with as well. You're not going to talk your way out of that part and none of the DPC threats/government talk is going to save them. It's inevitable. The only uncertain part is which side Pakistan will be seen as being on when it happens.
@somebody1: Your statement is indicative of your frustration. If that was so easy US or India would have tried that long time ago.
@Gul Khan: @Abid Javed: @afaq:
Being funny and frustrated is lot better than labelled as 'Terrorist', come out of your pure land and hear what the world is saying.
Ufff these indians....why do ET even publish news relating india???why?
India and US must understand that Pakistan will not take any action against its priceless asset despite producing any amount of hard evidence by both countries and even in the contigency of self-admission of carrying out 26/11 in a public rally. God bless Pakistan.
"US State Department spokesperson Mark Toner had clarified earlier on Wednesday that the Rewards for Justice notice against Saeed was not for ‘information about his whereabouts’, but to ‘seek evidence that can be used against Saeed’ which will pass “judicial scrutiny” and lead to his conviction."
Indian Foreign Minister S M Krishna should have given the evidences against Hafiz Saeed to the U.S. and claimed the $10 million bounty. Or the evidences handed by Mr. Krisna just another hoax!
It shows Indian frustration..:))
blaming pakistan and pathans and jihadist for every wrong doing in this world has become so easy.
pakistanis will not hand over their terror asset to india or america, it is very clear we will have to take them down by ourselves.
Why India not hands over its watertight proofs against Hafiz to the the US and earn 10 million dollars? Mr. Krishna your assumptions against Hafiz Saeed are as fake as a wig and choppers and please attention your ears......force of gravity!
when?? :p
indians are really funny
Pakistanis double standards in cost them Balochistan.
Based on the evidence India has provided UN Security Council has blacklisted him and labeled him and his group as Terrorists.
What happened to all the UN Resolution fans in Pakistan, who wouldn't stop pointing out that India must honour it? Why have they all gone quiet?
Giving more evidance to Pakistan on Hafis Saed is totally waste of time and money. God should save Pakistan from people like Hafis Saed.
Hafiz has been repeating that he is not afraid of anyone but Allah. In that case, why doesn't Hafiz Saeed and his Difa-e-Pakistan tanzeem hold a public meeting in FATA since they are holding rallies against drone attacks. Americans are waiting to welcome them to FATA.
Indians are funny..
So Mr Krishnan handed over 10 million to Pakistan? Why not hand it over to the USA? Or is not good enough?
I think India should handover all the evidences to US and collect the bounty if it can. In addition Dawood Gilani is also in US custody. What is that the US expect from Pakistan. Very unclear.