2008 Mumbai attacks: Pakistani panelists stopped from cross-questioning Indian officials
A member of the panel, while talking to The Express Tribune confirmed that the panel had completed recording statements of the Indian officials including the Chief investigative officer who had questioned Ajmal Kasab and two doctors who had conducted autopsy on eight of his accomplices.
Over 160 people were killed and many more injured when 10 gunmen rampaged through the streets of Mumbai in November 2008 – including the Taj Mahal Palace hotel. India had blamed the Pakistan based charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa( JuD), and its militant wing Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).
A member of panel while talking to The Express Tribune complained that despite being given the mandate, the defence as well as the prosecution lawyers were stopped by the Chief Metropolitan Magistrate (Judicial Commission) from cross-examining the Chief Investigator, lady magistrate and doctors who had recorded statements of Ajmal Kasab and conducted the autopsy of those who had been killed during attacks respectively.
When the Pakistani team insisted that it be given the chance, Indian officials angrily replied that the panel had no such mandate despite the fact the Chief Metropolitan Magistrate appointed as Judicial Commission by the Chief Justice of Mumbai High Court for recording the evidence in compliance to the order of Anti Terrorism Court No1 Rawalpindi in his order had allowed to the defence lawyers as well prosecutors to cross examine.
Another panel member said that proceedings had been completed in only two days.
The panel is due to leave India on Wednesday because the delay in flight schedules to Pakistan.
Documents of proceedings, including statements of the Chief Investigator, Lady Magistrate and two doctors will be sent to Pakistan by the Indian government through formal diplomatic channel, sources familiar with the matter further revealed.
COMMENTS (58)
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@Bhindian: "lol raging indians here are funny"..... I am sure you will laugh louder when terrorists repeat the Mumbai massacre in your city......but I know you will over whelmingly without any proof and even if TTP says "we did it" , claim that India and RAW did it. Nobody expects anything better from likes of you. You and your likes have become daily joke in every global media.
@Fake Balochi: And who said that there was such agreement ? The very same set of lawyers who are ferociously defending terrorists ?
From reading the comments, several things seem clear to me:
the Pakistani panel made a reasonable request as part of a sincere attempt to help Hindustan clean up its own mess, and yet this request was turned down with zero explanation as to why Hindustani commentators seem to think that posting under multiple accounts with english names like 'Mark' and 'Thomas' will further their credentials, but they all seem confused by the rather straightforward purpose of this panel, and the subsequent confusion (and of course suspicion) that emerged from Hindustan's insecure obstinacy ET is doing a sterling job in stifling the true opinion of the Pakistani readers - had our views been aired unfettered and without censorship, these Hindustanis would most likely be given a rude awakening as to how much - or how little - we really care for their internal terror issues, their hypocritical mudslinging, or their laughably impotent threats.Hasan
@Truth Seeker: @Nasir: if you think that saying something honestly about wrong doing of my government ( atleast for now ) makes me a non baloch, then it is completely your own opinion. I am proud balochi by birth, blood and by values. You have freedom to be opinionated. And I do not care about respect in the forum. It is pretty common for you to call anyone Indian who says anything against Pakistan.
lol raging indians here are funny
Would the Pakistan Govt. (ISI or Pak armed forces; whoever has the control on such affairs) allow an Indian judicial team to question and cross examine the Pak police officers who have investigated Lakhvi and company ?
SImple facts... let pakistan release these folks ... Send Mossad type forces into Pakistan and eliminate the trouble makers....terror bosses. Blame it back on US or some local group.... There are awyways tons of terror groups inside pakistan Teror university....
Now look at the attitude of Indian commentators, instead of criticizing a wrong act, they are trying to stop justice to be done
@Balochi liberal: Just an Indian hiding himself in Balochi name...
@O B Server: Next time you wont get opportunity to use them! Better shove them where the sun never shines!!
@Harry Stone: *"This seems more like a PAK mission to assess where future terrorist attack can be improved. To think PAK will actually do something to prevent future attacks is folly of the first order."
Your mindset is the real evil of the first order. The whole world has so badly suffered from your evil designs aka "The New World Order".
This seems more like a PAK mission to assess where future terrorist attack can be improved. To think PAK will actually do something to prevent future attacks is folly of the first order.
@Indian: "next time it will be a suicidal for Indian govt. for not attacking pakistan in such cases."
Try that again, but will you find the courage? We are waiting. Many accounts needs to be settled.
@Indian: "coz pakistan has been a nation in the past, known for its treacherousness..."
ET has been very kind especially with the Indian bloc - and even publish comments blatantly insulting the whole nation as the one of yours - and does not publish our comments which have the slightest hint of mockery based on facts and history, let alone insult. I am personally a witness on many occasions when I tried to respond in kind and my comments didn't get through. So I am not saying anything but your comment is enough to show your level.
Truthseeker : I dont believe what u say. If it is true, I think RAW is doing a wonderful job in the oft quoted "national interest:
@Indian
(1) Do not wish for India to attack Pakistan. Pakistan has not got the nuclear bombs as decoration pieces. Pakistanis are fatalistic enough to use them.They are not afraid to commit harakiri , suicides etc for 'shahadat' as evidenced by almost daily occurrences.So please PRAY FOR PEACE that sanity shall prevail on both sides.
(!) Do not forget Indian Treachery in Kashmir. Read about Nehru's promise to hold plibiscite in Jammu and Kashmir. Almost hundred thousand Kashmiris have died to exercise their right to decide their own fate. With the prevailing situation they may not join Pakistan but go for Independence or even stay within Indian Union, but it will clear the biggest bone of contention between the two Nations..
I don't know what the arrangement was but we in India for sure do believe Pakistan will do nothing to bring the culprits to book. These are just hogwash and excuses. They don't even need to come here to record statements if they are sincere. India has given enough evidence, voice samples are in present in Pakistan or they can provide voice samples to India and they can do investigations in Pakistan. If they were sincere criminals would be behind bars.
But then we all know how competent they are. They need to provide justice to their victims first and they are failing miserably there too. At the end of the day if they think harboring these elements or talking to 'good' talibans is in Pakistan's interest then they are going down the drain (amply supported right wing jokers).
You just have to love the indian trolls on ET and other english news websites from Pakistan. It would be nice to have a discussion amongst Pakistanis for a change. But no, the indians must gatecrash every discussion. They go to some lengths to do this, such as our "Balochliberal" from india :-)
@Balochi liberal: You dont need to be scared.... dont prentend to be a balouch... the agreement was that they will be allowed to cross question... do your research before jumping to conclusions
We Pakistanis will do what we will. Who are you to question? We can even eat a cricket ball while playing a game in full media glare and you talk of breaking rules while collecting info! How very childish of you!!!
I thought the pakistani duplicity is again exposed. They have agreed as an arrangement between the countries to record the statement of witnesses and that only. Where is the issue of cross examination coming in? ON second thoughts,they rake it up to delay the issue of prosecuting the bast...ds again, At the end, (why, even now) Pakistanis are dearly paying for breeding snakes, The pitiable part is that they dont even realise that. They use the sufferings ie more than 25000 deaths only to gain world sympathy and more USD. Fortunately there are no takers in the rest of the world for such convoluted logic, incl their deeper than ocean friend China
if indians want a long standing peace, it has to negotiate with the isi and the army..this nonsense with the govt. of pak which doesnt have much of a standing in pakistan, will not be of much help...its difficult, coz pakistan has been a nation in the past, known for its treacherousness, and that must be taken into account before taking the final plunges.
@Pakistan politics: Oh are you really serious about solving the case, how about let Indian team collect voice samples, just voice samples, no cross examination , nothing ......just voice samples......let the world see how serious you really are!!
@Roflcopter:
I dont think its the Indians who fear LeT and ISI now, its the Pakistanis themselves.
No major Terror attack has happened since a long time in India, while they are happening every week in Pakistan.
How about this deal from India to Pakistan: Water in return for putting Terrorists behind bars?
@Indian: good luck trying. you tried in 99, 2002 too only to pull your million plus troops back from the border after suffering casualties without a bullet being fired .
@Roflcopter: Has you limited intelligence not told you which ship is sinking?
@Balochi liberal: Absolutely agree with you Balochi liberal. People like Roflcopter are probably are on the pay of the ISI/ LeT/ JuD combine just as you and me would probably be on the payroll of RAW/CIA/ Mossad. He doesn't want to understand that India and the whole world want to see the perpetrators of 26/11 brought to justice. As MarkH remarked in his comment that Pakistan here is the defendant and they are in India to only record the testimonies , not to cross examine. It's very convenient for Pakistan to put the blame on India and parrot " we do not have sufficient evidence" just as they have been accusing India of interference in Balochistan but have not been able to provide a shred of evidence so far.
ROFL.....Why would India would be dumb enough to allow corss examination of witnesses? No country in the world would allow that. We have submitted the evidence to the visting commission, and we feel that is enough to implicate the perpetrators.
@Revo: @Hasan: @Roflcopter: next time it will be a suicidal for Indian govt. for not attacking pakistan in such cases.
People don't seem to get what the situation really is. To use a courtroom analogy, Pakistan is the defendant. It's not there to help the prosecutor (India). It's there to find a way to get out of the accusation. They're trying to harm the prosecutors case against them. It also seems like people believe they went there to actually help investigate. It' just too bad the required areas to investigate for something productive is in Pakistan itself. So that's not the case either. They're not there to mutually work for some greater good.
For India, the State and Non-state actors (whatever you call them) are accomplice to the crime committed by ten terrorists on Indian soil. The International community desire Pakistan to take action against Mumbai carnage culprits themselves or hand them over to the country where crime against humanity is committed. Pakistan is shielding the culprits and hence is accomplice to the crime. As such, the judicial commission (as you call the visiting Pakistani officials) is allowed access considering them ‘representative of accomplice in crime who is on parole’. The access to Indian judicial records is open and is provided to accused or his accomplices in crime. This is only for their defense before Indian Courts or for International community. I hope this explains the right position.
@Balochi liberal:
Simply speaking, Pakistan needs as much evidence as required for a conviction. We already have people like Zaki-ur-rehman lakhvi in our prison. Now thats a pretty big fish. So either you give us the evidence we need to keep them in prison or they will walk away because your country's lack of co-operation meant that they cant be kept in jail indefinitely without any supporting evidence.
@Balochi liberal: Here comes the fake balochi who is busted by simply his nick. All the learned will know what i am talking about
@Balochi liberal, the ship is sinking? hehe keep dreaming
Pakistani panelists were allowed every thing that was agreed upon. This visit was to record the statements of Indian judicial officials, so that those statements can be used at the trial in Pakistan. The visit was not to re-examine the witnesses and every one was clear about that before the visit.
@Rafaqat:
The evidence was given to the Pakistanis. They have no authority to cross examine indian investigators. You investigate the evidence, not try to get the secret how India got the information, these pakistanis are so tricky. Their intention is to figure out how Indians figured out their cladstene ways,so they can fine tune their trechery, that is what they are interested in. The investigators presented the evidence, they are not criminals to be investated and cross examined by the Pakistanis. Pakistani comenters from this forum have no clue what they are talking about.
Indians with double-standards .... i thought u really wanted to do some productive work for the fact findings and elimination of terrorism, Gov. of Pakistan shouldn't waste its time and money on such hypocrites
Indians why not lets just disclose the real drama??
India should go out of it's way to respond to any reasonable request made by the Pakistanis - anything short of that will be used by them as justification for their continuing to stonewall this issue. Both sides need to grow up - this issue is too important to let petty squabbling derail it.
@Roflcopter: You are one wonderful and dedicated Pakistani. You make yourself look like the captain who will sink with his ship but will not agree that the ship has a hole and it needs to get repaired. Happy sinking @Hassan: You should re-read the article and understand what the Pakistani prosecuters are complaining about, they are allowed to collect all information but ofcourse not allowed to cross examine, which never happens in any country for your kind information.
Why would India allow Pakistani official to do cross examination ? Are Pakistani officials in India fighting a case or collecting statement ? Most dumb Pakistanis here will clap hands and start pointing that India has something to hide, but will not understand a clear fact that Pakistani official has no "right" in any legal system to "cross examine" without setting up official judicial environment. No lawyers anywhere in world can carry any judicial proceedings on any other countries soil unless ( if at all possible ) a former acceptance by host country to allow so. Pakistan has never learned ti play by rules, it is like one of those ugly neighbors who just like to pick on neighbors for anything whether the issue is right or wrong. Sorry cry babies, better luck next time. As such India does not expect any resolution by Pakistani after all this drama.
How many times has a wife to marry - USA, China. Russia (defeated by Pakistan?), Iran, KSA, etc to have a true love?
Indians are undermining their claims of wanting justice for mumbai attacks. They are more interested in using the incident for continuous diplomatic pressure against Pakistan rather than any desire for real justice. As shahid afridi said, big country with a small heart.
The Pakistani government should not waste its limited resources sending such teams to India. Instead, they should stay at home and question the masterminds of the 26/11 attacks who live under their very noses. They are wasting their time and money pretending to be earnest about this investigation when the whole world knows it is a sham.
If that is the attitude it may appear that the Indians have something to hide and may have carried out the attack themselves - it seems more plausible scenario. The Indians have learned many tricks from their friends - the Zionists of illegal entity. To get to the bottom of things it is important that everyone is given access to ascertain who was really responsible - Zardari may also be complicit given his statement at the time - to remind the readers this is what he said: "the non-state actors" carried out the attack.
Indians drama , and thus indians have the right to reject pakistans decision
Fine.
So Islamabad now has full entitlement to throw all Hindustani conspiracy claims out of the window whenever the issue arises again. If these idiots don't even offer the panel the information required to complete the full investigation, why in the world are we wasting our time giving this whole debacle any attention?
H
Why am I not surprised? We should stop wasting time with indians and let them keep having nightmares about ISI and LeT.