Odd detention: Indian SC ‘shocked’ by Pakistanis in jail
The court, hearing a public interest case filed by a member of the public, ordered the central government to file a comprehensive report explaining the detentions. “It’s shocking that over 254 Pakistani nationals are languishing in jails without a trial,” said Indian Supreme Court Judge RM Lodha.
The inmates are being held in Indian Kashmir, with many thought to be people arrested after unwittingly crossing the disputed border in the area, the court heard. Four are women. It is believed that there may be inmates held without trial in other states too.
Published in The Express Tribune, November 12th, 2011.
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@Akash:
Bang on brother.. We are INDIANS....
i am ashamed to be an indian.
@Romm : I am not obliged to give you any info or stats.. but since you guys keep on labeling false accusation here are some stats. 10518 cases of human rights violations under AFSPA out of that 97% were false and malicious, investigated by Human rights Commission of India. Out of 3% left, 104 officers were suspended and court marshaled.
In the heat of battle things go wrong... but I have a news for you, we admit, enquire and bring to book the culprit. In case of Mass graves it was Indian govt who admitted and found and ordered enquiry. In samjhota the criminals are behind bar. We don't claim we are perfect and we don't deny things on the pretext of any conspiracy theories.
So its a bit rich for Pakistanis telling India what to do when you need to first look at your backyard. I mean for God sake we have ministers and directors of big companies in jail for scams!
We will even not have this AFSPA if you stop sending terrorists from across the border, YES protection against the terrorist that you people train.
In case of Mumbai attack your govt promised in March 2011 will send judicial commission to India, no result. Again, no result on voice samples either. And I am not going to even talk about other attacks emanating from Pakistan because there are so many.
We understand you guys are incompetent. What to talk of Mumbai when you still need to provide justice for your own people killed. We criticize and marginalize our extremist elements while you shower rose petals and brand them saints as they freely collect charity for next attack on India.
Talk to us when things improve in Pakistan and we will listen. well our PM is still listening to you even after no progress on Mumbai, that is INDIA for you!!
@romm: We cannot because there are not any!! And lets come to the angels of Islam - the pakistani army who have the following credits - the creators of taliban, the one who have successfully made pakistan the beggar of the world who beg from food to guns, whose contribution to the world has been the lashkar e taiba, jaish e mohammad, al qaida, lashkar e jahnvi, the trainers of ajmal kasab.
What crime has Modi committed? Other than being chief minister during the Gujrat riots (where both Hindus and Muslims died). He's an exceptional chief minister, and a possible future prime minister.
Similar events happen in other nations (including India's neighbors). Should those in charge there be held accountable for the criminal actions of their citizens? Those living in a glass house should not throw stones.
Good that someone filed a PIL to bring this to ligt. Now it can be fixed. It's really sad for the people. While they shouldnt have crossed the border into our ountry without a visa, their suffering is completely disproportionate to the crime. I hope they're prosecuted and deported soon so they can rejoin their loved ones.
@Akash would u pls name or tell me.the number of Indian security officials booked for human rights violations in Kashmir. pls don't argue on baselss stance that there are no human rights violations, no killings, no.rapes, no mass graves. and u said It's protective law. protection against.what?
@romm: You have any proof? And that is India's Internal matter. We will fix Modi or anyone for that matter who behaves in a manner which is not Indian.
Lets be very clear our secular ethos are very dear to us and we will not let India become another Pakistan. What happens in India in a decade, happens in Pakistan every week.
Secondly it is the beauty of India that Modi has most Muslims being elected under BJP ticket in local municipality.. it is beauty of India that he has gone extra mile after 2002 to talk to the community and make sure they are peace and nothing happens in future.
Pakistanis like you have no moral ground to stand and tell India what to do.
We are all Indians... muslims or hindus or sikhs or Christians. you guys have no right to say anything when you kill minorities on hourly basis.
It basically highlights the flaw in judicial system which is slow and takes years.. ofcourse it is not best and i guess issue was not given the due priority!!
Since Pakistan has still to see proper democracy they fail to understand it has nothing to do with democracy.
however, an INDIAN filed a public interest litigation in INDIAN court and the OBSERVATION was MADE PUBLIC by INDIAN JUDGE. I hope now you all get the message, yes it was us admitting our flaw and hopefully rectifying it too.
Pakistanis lecturing us about what we should do and we should be shameful... duh!! Lets not forget you not only harbour dreaded terrorists but nurture them too... so better to keep quite.
@romm:
1) "Naieve, prejudiced, talking irrelevant and neighbour Centric"
Read the above lines separately and tell me that it does not sound like Pakistan with confidence because i am damn sure indian policies look out at the entire world and not just the imagined enemy in the neighbour or the just the Islamic umma.
2) "criticising inhumane detention of pakistanis by Indian state machinary"
That was a news brought out by the Indian public and media against whatever that happened. That is called rule of law if you have not heard of it in Pakistan.
Try criticizing your media and news channels for their India centric approach and mainstream bashing with idiocies like 'Hindu bania'. Stop! Just stop! Stop whining with India's name for all the hell that you people have brought upon yourself.
Pakistan only has a nuisance value to India now and nothing else. Yeah you heard me right - 'Nuisance value'..
@Nirmit and Modi responsible for Gujarat massacre, is one of the Prospetive candidate to head the.country believed to be the biggest democracy. It's shame .
@ Menon u sound Naieve, prejudiced, talking irrelevant and sound Pakistan Centric. ppl here are criticising inhumane detention of pakistanis by Indian state machinary for.more than forty years and u r justifying that by comparing Indian judiciary with Pakistani. impartiality and strength of Indian judiciary can be guaged with the Existence of AFSPA, which gives Indian security forces the license to kill humans with impunity.
Pakistanis are parrots fed on a fictitious tale, and regurgitating it wherever or whenever they can find an ear;not their fault though;it is the way they are brought uip,on texttbooks that usually is a collection of lies and children stories by the bigoted mullahs;and hate is the only feeling they are allowed to develop;there,that pretty much sums it up
What's up with the Hindu full moon daughters stuff??? First off, what are you talking about? Second, where did you get this stuff from? Please enlighten me.
@romm: Oh!! your idiotic religious remarks every time using that Hindu word. Would you please note the number of times Indian commentators have used their identity against a Pakistani using the Muslim identity. You will definitely find that Indians often keep their religious identity (Hindu/Muslim/Sikh/christian or others) behind their national. It is Pakistani commentators who identify their nationality = Islam.
Nationality is not equal to religion!!! Both are different concepts. Religion (=Islam) is a belief and nationality is an identity.
And Nazis?? Who do you think they are Indians or Pakistanis. If you understand that Hitler and Nazis were racists which is some what akin to fascists. Who do you think is more fascist (Nazis) in this case? A country which has protected the minorities constitutionally to an extent that they now flourish with little fear and occupy big posts and contribute to its growth like never before or the one country where the minorities now are less than 2%.
I traveled to India couple of times on a valid visa just for few days. Each time it proved to be a bad experience. The moment it is known by any personnel from the police department or hotel staff you become easy prey who is made to go through lot of hassle. I can imagine the plight of those people who are in the lockup for no crime or minor unintentional mistakes. You want to think twice if you really want to visit India as a tourist who does not know any influential person over there. Even than be prepared to go in the lockup even for few days.
@Panga te ohvi Sade Naal
Ansar Burney trust in not a part of Pakistan Govt. Though he is doing a great job, calling his work as that of Pak Govt doesn't hold much water. So that wont earn you any brownie points.
I fail to understand certain comments from Pakistanis. I do get it that 254 innocents in prison without any trial of any sort is nothing to be proud of but how does it taint secularism and democracy of India? Inefficiency and inadequecy in numbers of courts in India is the reason for this. Had India not be secular, it wouldn't have such huge minority populations. It is totally wrong to question Indian secularism just because of a few aberrations.
India is INDEED shinning!
OMG, Is it the biggest democracy in the world.
Indian so called democratic structure has been exposed. India is biggest totalitarian state run by Nazis Hindus not by majority Hindus, who are civilized in every sense.
I totally agree with Shabaz Kareem. A Pakistani can be an Indian but an Indian can never be Pakistani due to history. India should treat these prisoner humanely and consider them Indian.
@Nirmit: Son, the comment was aimed at your brother's statement, not the esteem court. Remember how we returned your people a few days back instead of shooting them down? The point was not to pretend to be so self righteous when you are not.
@romm: They are imprisoned, but still alive and fed at Indian tax payer expense for 40 years. And it is Indian judicial system that has brought their plight forward. Please stop shedding crocodile tears. Who knows how many Indians are languishing in Pakistani prison or outright killed for alleged or real crimes?
@Hamid: "have you forgot what happened in Gujrat? "
Let me share some facts about the Gujarat riots: 1. They happened 9 years back. There have been no communal riots in India since 2002. 2. Why did Gujarat riotys occur? A train compartment containing Hindu ilgrims was burnt alive at Godhra by Muslims. 51 Hindus died. Imagine if Hindus had killed 51 people going to Hajj in Pakistan - would there be no riots? In these riots which lasted over 2 days 1050 peole died 700 Muslims and 350 Hindus. By end of 2 days army was called in and all rioting was brought under control. 3. People were tried in courts (both Hindus and Muslims because both Hindus and Muslims were killed in the riots - though given the origin of the riots - more Muslims were kiled). 31 Hindus have been CONVICTED of killing Muslims. This is very different from Pakistan where Malik Ishaq roams scot free only because he has killed the witnesses. 4. It was also found out that some of the initial stories e.g. women's foetuses being destroyed etc. were false. Teesta Setalvad had apparently paid some people to start false cases based on cyclostyled letters etc. So it is possible that some of what you had heard is based on lies and untruth. 5. There was enough follow-up of these riots in media, courts and civil society as a result of which there have been NO communal riots inIndia since 2002.This is different from how media and civil society in Pakistan (barring a few exceptions) acts in case of Shia, Ahmadi, Hindu or Sikh victims.
"Have you forgot what hindus do on full moon with their daughters? is that what you call ethics?"
I am a Hindu woman. I have no idea what kind of fantasy has been fed to you about what Hindus do to their daughters on full moon. Please be aware it is uncorrelated to facts.
@Aftab Kenneth Wilson: " The SC of India has also now awaken from deep sleep and is inquiring about those who are languishing in Indian jails. Strangely some even without any trial. They should learn from our Judges in the Supreme Courts"
The problem of undertrials in jail exists in Pakistan also. Imran Khan has frequently spoken about in the past. And just recently someone was release by Pakistan who had been in jail since 1971 - so the issues exist on both sides.
For the people that are linking this with democracy - somehow it is unclear what the connection is. Democracy is to ensure rights for citizens and these are not citizens. This is not to say this is not a problem - because it is. However it is a problem unrelated to democracy..
One can also ask the question as to why no Pakistani government has raised the issue of these people with India all these years?
@Menon: Menon dear, your superior judiciary is totally independent and ours is dependent due to family, political and strong arm affiliations. Democracy is only allowed with many strings attached. In your country army can not even dream to take over on any pretext whatsoever. Here they are legally allowed to ruin and play with the system and the reason is same as I have mentioned above. The point is here that why no one informed your SC of this injustice?????
I am simply shocked. It's a shameful. I wonder if this is possible in 21st century? imprisoning females without trial is unacceptable in any civilized society.
Investigation agencies in India found and made it public that Purohit was behind Samjhouta express. Because they are not afraid of fanatics or religious extremists. Court of India finds and brings it to notice that there are Pakistanis in their jails without trial. Because they are not afraid of an army general sacking them. But rather than seeing the positives in this we continue to bash India and specially the democratic system she has. No wonder most of the times we've had a dictator regime.
The so called democracy coutry should do like this only .As the blood sucking terror not tobe epdemic
@Noon Meem: thats arabic not urdu. First please learn to identify the language
@Aftab Kenneth Wilson:
Supreme Court of Pakistan is a joke, absolutely no one in government and the military foolows any of its orders. If they did, Mushraff would be behind jail and standing trial.
Actually, in a democracy, the Supreme Court should not have gotten involved in this at all, it is not under their purview. There are plenty of cases that needs to go to trial. Judiciary doesn't start its own case as it see's fit. If the Indian Supreme Court keeps getting involved and starts legislating from the bench, then; the largest democracy will collapse. Judiciary's job is interpret and enforce the laws made by the legislature.
Can all Indians (and Pakistanis) please not start blame game and shed a few tears for these innocent souls!!!! . We need to ensure this never happens again in SAARC countries! . This matter is a shame for India (We have our own things to be ashamed of and this is not the place to discuss them). Two wrongs don't make one right!
@JLO: JLO hunn zyaada na uchhlo! Gal te ae ve sorry back to English - cant stoop down to your level; there are scores of Indian PoW unaccounted for in Pakistani Jails. Languishing! Red Cross and Asma Jehnagir also have put up their hands and said that the Pakistani establishment did a great job in keeping them hidden from the rest of the world. The lead went dry from Attock Central Prison. Ansar Burney himself admits that there are scores of Indians in Pakistani Jails - Fishermen, PoWs and others who havent seen light from outside their cells. I can say its shameful for Pakistan to be in the news every waking hour across the globe for all the wrong reasons. SHAME on YOU!
@Panga te ohvi Sade Naal
Thats a big slap on indian faces! noticed no indian is replying to your comment! Bravo! And then they claim our hatred is so deep rooted lol..
@antanu g: Pot calling the kettle black
@Manju: Ansar Burney.. now release the poor Pakistani fishermen or villagers
@Hamid: Have you forgotten what you'd done in 1971 with innocent millions of BANGLADESHI muslims
@Ali Tanoli: This coming from a place where judges and politicians are assassinated for trying to do the right thing.
@JLO
Are you able to substantiate that there are in fact no Indians in Pakistani jails without trial? .. I don't think so. Who said anything about justification? I'm glad that the Indian court is taking this step and hope that the Pakistani supreme or high courts take note of this and attempt to do their due diligence in kind. Don't blame me for having a sense of humanity here since that seems to bother you.
Also for your own reference, I'm Pakistani.
what a shamefull day for justice system of socalled secular and world largest democracy. tuff
And here so called liberal Pakistanis continue to toe-licking and preach so called Aman ki Aasha. Duh!
The Pakistani prisoner issues were raised every time with each successive PAK governments. The problem has always been that PAK refused to acknowledge that they were pakistanis and post Bangladesh it has become far more important on PAK side to deny it. The problem of stateless actors in a typical legal system, as in Guantanamo. No body wants them.
ET should interview some retired foreign secretaries to get a full depth of the stories.
see who is teaching us abt democracy pak and i dont want to learn about how to treat to minorities from you see your international indicators on minority violence and "tum log to dusre muslim ko bhi nahi chodte ho" only country in the world who has given non muslim status to ahmadi muslims after huge violence in 1980s and sorry but what happens between locals and muhajirs in karachi we are aware of that do you know what there is a saying "pehle apne ghar ko dekho phir dusre ke pe jakon " and see now how minority is treated in india prime minister :sikh, chairperson of ruling party:catholic christian,vice president of india:muslim,chief justice:parsi,chief election commisioner:muslim,defence minister:catholic tell me a single hindu or sikh or chirstian who is at such imp places in pakistan
@Manju: yes, Why not. Check ANSAR BURNET TRUST. Not only it got them released from Pakistani Jails but from foreign jails as well. The last event I can remember was when four Indian Sailors were taken Hostages along with a Pakistani Captain on an Egyptian ship, then Burney Trust gathered and paid more than a Millio dollars ransom and got them released and Pakistani Ship PNS Babar boarded them and brought them to Karachi from where they flew to India. He also got release of an Indian Spy who was in Pakistani Jail for 35 years,.
@Mahmood: I appreciate your sincerity brother..
@ Mahmood
OOO, this news item pinched your raw nerve - hurts doesn't it? Considering that some of these people have been languishing since 1965; don't you think Indian courts took the matter a bit too speedily. Since you are justifying this, what gives you the right to ask of Indians in Pakistani jails - fact is there is none is in jail without trial!
Indians like you put your country to shame. There is nothing to be proud of, its a shameful moment for all Indians and India. And let me say: your govt will do absolutely nothing about this.
@Hamid: First you are talking out of the blue without even knowing what 'antanu g' was saying. Secondly, your thoughts are at least 100 years old .. so jump into 21st century ... I am referring to the daughters and full moon part ... Those were the things that used to happen at the time when we were also having Karokari & Swara etc .. its same region don't think if they are doing something wrong we won't be. If there are some barbarians in Indian Gujrat There are some savages in our Sialkot too .. All these things are fruits of illiteracy.
The famous poet, Sahid Ludhianvi, had said and I write (in Urdu):
اسلیے اے شریف انسانو جنگ ٹلتی رہے تو بہتر ہے آپ اور ہم سبھی کے آنگن میں شمع جلتی رہے تو بہتر ہے
roughly translated as:That's why, oh innocent people, it is better if the wars keep delaying and it is better that there be light in our homes
treating them as like that of 10000s indians in pakistan
me too shocked 254 without a trial.
To all those using this as an excuse to bash India, let it be noted that it is after all an Indian court that has taken notice of the prisoners and is ready and willing to do something about it! What about the Indians languishing in Pakistani jails?
@Hamid: hamid brother, gujarat was something we erroneosly lernt from you; we have corrected ourselves and moved on....no continual massacres thereafter.....
@Sheeda Talli: you are right sheeda; every act on moral standard is a joke for you; that is why it is Indian judge who made this observation and not a pakistani one!!
@Shahbaz Younis: but shahbaz it is indian court who passed the verdict, proof of democracy; do you think a cour in pakistan will also pass such judgement!!! because there are innocents on both sides of the border......
Well, these Pakistanis could have hired the judge; thats what everybody does in India - its cheaper to hire a judge than a lawyer...
@Aftab Kenneth Wilson:
Pakistan has the best judicial system in the world….proud to be part of it
i think instead of blaming each other let us be positive and move forward. If someone has made a positive step forward let us reciprocate by moving forward
Great news that our Higher Courts are on the right path.
Free them. What's the point in putting anybody in jail without trial. Innocent ppl should not be hostage to Indo - Pak bickerings. Likewise If there are any Indians languishing in Pak jails without trial, free them too.
How could that be a shock? Everyone knows about that, just like atrocities being committed in Kashmir, but everyone is turning a blind eye to it.
We here in Pakistan have to look inwards rather than accusing others. By that logic there are 18 crore Indians here in Pakistan, because we all were Indians before 1947. What if India accuses us of torturing these people in Balochistan and Karachi. They will say these are Indians. Shame on us.
@Shahbaz Younis: This issue has come out of the Public interference into the matter..
I ask one question to all Pakistanis here. Keep your hand on your heart and pledge by Allah's name - Has one Pakistani tried to do the same in the Pakistani Supreme court??
I heard from someone that India is the biggest democratic country in the world. What a democracy!!!!!!! The SC of India has also now awaken from deep sleep and is inquiring about those who are languishing in Indian jails. Strangely some even without any trial. They should learn from our Judges in the Supreme Courts who even take actions against the price hike of vegetables and often perform the duties of the executives though not their job but they do feel so.
@antanu g: That is a palpable jocular.............. has to be.
shame on india for treating people like this
The so called biggest democratic country in the world.....
....we are trying to teach ethics and morals to Pakistanis on human rights.