Pakistan took security data from Indian chopper: Indian media
The report claimed that the data includes the GPS coordinates and location of all Indian helipads in the Siachen and Kargil areas.
“We are treating the incident with utmost concern as coordinates of all helipads in the 14 Corps including Siachen Glacier and LAC are now with Pakistan army with code signs and nicknames,” a senior official told The Hindustan Times.
Citing top government sources, the report claims that a high level probe has been ordered into the incident, and the Indian crew is being questioned about the airspace violation.
Pakistan released an Indian army helicopter just hours after it strayed across the tense border between the two countries on Sunday, officials said, underscoring a desire by the old rivals to avoid any crisis as they try to improve ties.
(Read more: A most welcome gesture)
The Pakistani military had forced the Indian helicopter to land and detained four Indian army officials after it intruded into its territory in Olding sector in northern Skardu region near the border in the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir.
But it was released after senior military officials from both sides spoke on a hotline.
Correction: An earlier version of this post incorrectly stated that the Indian helicopter crashed into Pakistani territory.
COMMENTS (130)
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in the first place, it should not have been rteturned, cz it flew from anemy terrirtory that you claim to be yours,guiess what that war is changing dimensions
The kind of negative attitude by indian media instesd of thankfullness ??ok,next time your heli would be shoot downed.believe me.
First the weather was not bad at all,second indian chopper did not strayed,thats why they faced interrogation.
Indians crying as usual
Indian Army needs to train there pilots well, else this can be cause of a potential disaster next time.
so what !!! Pakistani fighter planes have entered Indian air space hundred of times already, nondeductible and unobstructed :)) question is so called 'high-tech' IAF on sleep when that happens??!! as per Indian official version that Pakistan boats entered all the way into Indian territories in Arabian sea, when so called "Bombay incident" happened ...again, where were those Indians , were poor desi "high tech" gadgets were non functional or it was just a .......???!! ??!!
@JIMMF: There are satellite imagery to confirm that, so Pakistani intel is not same as Indian intel.
I'm glad that the situation was resolved quickly and without any games.
Though I am Indian, however, I find our argument silly. Imagine for a moment Ms Malaika Arora Khan straying into Pakistan and Pakistani police letting her go back to India only if she dance on Munni Badnam song. India's complain is like why she was made to dance.
@Jibreel:
Even if the GPS system isn't in-built, you simply plug in one and mount it in plain sight of the pilots. Even small planes now days fly with a GPS unit. It is no biggie.
With the facility of GPRS installed inside the chopper,how indians strayed inside of pakistan.
@Observer:
No, the "norm" is to investigate the airspace violation.
@Noman:
Well, you can only shoot it down if you intercept it in the first place. I suspect the pilot got lost and was running low on fuel. He landed at the nearest available airfield. We have their airports on our GPS and they have ours. All you have to do is select "Show Airports" on your GPS.
Indians should be greatful.Next time if their pilots feel lost,they can always ask Pak army for directions ;-)
India must thanks Pakistan for not doing anything like Chinese did to the American Spy Plane.
@Enlightened: 1)'Indians are the most insecure lot in the world' - Yes if you have such an unstable and unreliable neighbor like Pakistan who does not even care for the well being of its own citizens and continuing the idiocy(=terrorism) of past 65 years then who won't be? 2)'look at the current state of the country of Pakistan yet Indians are fearful' - When Pakistan has already taken it for granted that they are doomed. India should be fearful to have an Afghanistan like situation in Pakistan which is unfortunately a geographical neighbor.
This is just another Indian conspiracy. They will stage another Bombay like drama and blame it on Pakistan Army and ISI saying that the GPS coordinates taken from the chopper helped ISI to infiltrate the border!
Evident from both the print and electronic media, Indians are the most insecure lot in the world. Gosh, this is a country 10th of the size of your country; chill!!! I mean look at the current state of the country of Pakistan yet Indians are fearful.
Dunnoe about everyone else here, but has ANYONE asked if that helicopter even HAD a GPS navigation system? wasn't it supposed to be 'too old' and 'obsolete' for ANY digital technology and therefore half its justification for 'straying' ?
"There is no secret information in any helicopter. It is regular information that is needed for any machine. So I do not think that is the case," Minister of State for Defence M.M. Pallam Raju said.
The comment came in the wake of a report that the country's security has been breached as Pakistan Army downloaded confidential information on helipads along the borders after the Cheetah helicopter strayed into Pakistani Kashmir and was forced to land Sunday.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics/nation/no-sensitive-material-on-chopper-that-strayed-into-pakistan/articleshow/10488577.cms
Omg!! what hysteria and chest thumping. Well we do understand good news concerning Pakistan defence establishment is few and far between these days. So keep on between beating this drum for next few days. Perhaps in other world it would have been a very minor issue.
P.S: Media is same both sides except that you may have few 'liberal Fascists' who no one listens in Pakistan anyways.
My iPhone has better gps than Indian pilots
The Hindustan times such a disgraceful excuse for a newspaper after Pakistans goodwill gesture
I think that seeing the weather ahead and the closeness to the border the pilot decided to violate the border with the expectation that once clear of the worst weather he would turn back towards safety and the Pakistani's would not pick-up his violation --- based on recent evidence of sleeping at the switch at Abbotabad and Mehran).
No pilot will knowingly fly into weather that is painting RED on his color-coded, Navigation Display.
But, still, why let them go?!
Last week some bungling fool(s) authorized all helipad coordinates to be public domain information when IAF released a request for tenders for upgrading all the helipads along the Indo-Pak and Indo-China border.
This was reported in all major Indian newspapers.
If Pakistan took just the helipad coords from the chopper and they had every right to do so, but the information is available already. Now, if they took additional information, good for Pakistan and bad for India and India should not whine about it.
Or this could be a cover up mechanism by the Indians to protect the fools who initially released the helipad coords.
Code names and call signs can be changed within hours.
A GPS without the precision code is almost useless in targeting purposes for a small small target such as a helipad. Position of Helipads can found by a simple overpass of a satellite or even google earth user can give you the position of helipads in a given area.
Thankless Indians have exaggerated a petty issue just to deface Pakistan's good gesture to allow the helicopter to leave back unharmed.
PAF came out of it smelling like roses. We don't need to prove the reaction time of the PAF or the why the flt was not deployed earlier because that will show what we don't want to tell.
Pakistanis, don't worry. Indians see Pakistan's act as that of goodwill.
And anyway, any country would take military data from foreign countries if it's readily available to them as in this case. This is not being painted in the media as a bad act from Pakistan but that of incompetence by the Indian Army that let sensitive data be so freely available.
@all those who think GPS data is irrelevant: Feed this into your "gps guided" cruise missiles and Indian helipads and bases are at stake!! You cant change all your bases in days. Anyway, it will take time and money to do so thanks to the "friendly mistake" by those pilots. This is why they have been detained and questioned for any possible "link" they have with Pakistani Intelligence over transferring this info.
@Terrorising and true Aww I seem to have touch a raw nerve. We have been through dictatorships and we are still doing just fine.Infact during our last dictatorship, your army chief saluted General Musharraf when he visited India. So for you guys, you deserve 50 more years of such bungling airforce.
@A J Khan:
This is just weather forced mistake from Indian chopper, can anybody attack with Cheetah chopper. Those only meant for site-seeing.
@not saying: My thoughts exactly. But, common sense isn't very common.
Calm down everyone. This is the Indian media trying to be sensationalistic.
I greatly doubt the Indians were trying to pull off an Abbottabad operation, otherwise your military would not have released them so easily.
But I am glad the pilots were released without any major incident :-)
Hopefully in the future these kinds of incidents will be small footnotes in a newspaper instead of a big deal like it is now.
Thank you from India.
Well, if these Indian officers were smart, they could have destroyed the GPS unit while they were being escorted down. This is what u should when u know will be in enemy's hand soon.
Chill down folks. Nobody is blaming Pakistan. The GOI has acknowledged Pakistan's gesture and has thanked it.
Is Pakistan right in downloading the data - of course. Anybody else would have done that.
Hindustan tTimes only reported what had happened. Did the Indian defense establishment need to be concerned? Of course. They has slept on the job.
Where is the blame? And, where is the thanklessness?
Thanks PA for the Courtesy............. our Army would ve probably shot down your chopper.
Thank you for the data and memories ,IAF.
Good job! Any force would've done that actually so lets move on.................I am sure when these chopper dudes decided they was gonna land they knew the risk to sensitive data. I hope they dont get canned ..........................
@Ashwin:
I would imagine they have GPS on board. Even cars today have them! I would also imagine the GPS moving map has a very clear definition of where the border is and what the restricted areas are. If they deviated because of bad weather and strayed into our airspace they must have known they were taking a big risk. That is why I ask:
why were they allowed to go home without a proper investigation? Now we will have to wait for the Indian's to tell us. They will probably say "pilot error", ground the crew for a couple of months, give some re-training and send them off again.
Standard operating procedure...
If there was GPS facility, the helicopter would not have strayed into pakistani territory. The helicopter used here is a old rustic one.
@Ken: We returned favors in advance already! Giving Pakistan MFN status long ago even when Pakistan didn't reciprocate and we supported/ voted for Pakistan UNSC seat. We also voted in Pakistan favor for Europe special trade concessions in favor of Pakistan.
@Usman, erasing data and downloading data are different things...first is SOP not the second.
@Patriot: The actions recommended by you would have transformed the current 'win' from Pakistani into a 'loss' for itself. In this case what Pakustan did is as per norms.
@Sao Lao: Good job Pakistan...indian
It is naive from India to think that Pakistan would not do such thing. On this front Pak was winner and as it says "Winners takes all", it has taken whatever it thinks was good for it. We Indian should not rumble on this, we should look inward and interrogate the crew and investigate the matter, calculate the harm it may cause in near future. But I'm sure Indian Army would not sleep after knowing this matter and would try to alter the informations stolen by Pak Army. Pak only will benefit if it does any adventurous immediately. In same breath I want to reiterate what Imran Khan said in New York, that India is not the enemy No 1 of Pakistan. But I can say surely that it is suspicion of motives and intentions of one another which is coming between them. India fears that Pakistan bent on to snatch Kashmir from it and Pakistan thinks India is existential threat. Who is right and who is wrong, I don't know but I pray to God that both would be wrong.
@Axel: "Wasnt the chetak ONLY there to fix another chopper in the area."
No-one from India claimed that. They said that it had strayed due to bad weather.
@some what knowledgeble, @Malatesh: "One chopper will not & can not have the navigation data of all helicopers"
Please read the article properly. It says navigational data of all helpads. It does not say navigational data of all helicopters. Helipad is the place that you can land a helicopter.
What would have Pakistan done if they intercepted the US helicopter violating the territory limits?
Answer: They would have seen the chopper but pretend to be not seeing it. And then the next day the PAF would have come up with a statement that the US chopper had new stealth technology that dodged the Pakistani radars.
Indians and Indian Media :) @Shiraz: LOL you are darn right :)
@Iftikhar-ur-Rehman: Where did you get the sense any Indian is criticizing Paks actions in thiscase? The whole sequence of Paks actions will be considered normal.
hahahahaha....funny!
So at least its now for sure that the refueling was not free of cost.
I Hope Pakistan will send India a bill for the refueling :P
This cleaning could have been more due to erasing of their own location data than Indian locations or probably both. A wise things they did of course.
Pakistan Great Job done:D
@sam: Dear the story is from and Indian news paper so what ever is stated is the Indian perspective, nobody claimed any such thing in Pakistn
Indians are panicking for no reason. Pakistan army simply updated the chopper with tutorial on how to fly helicopters, indians should be thankful.
Can the Indian media PLEEEASE change there blaming templates ??? Do not use 15 year old templates as they look ridiculuous. The news would have been good to extent of nicknames / codenames of helipads. Who needs to breach security to get GPS coordinates nowadays ... forget the advance tools , just lookup google earth ;)
India is never going to come out of its sceptic thoughts!Always blaming and parochial in approach.
Some ridiculous comments/claims here:
1) "India trying to copy Abbotobad type operation..."? - With what? A crummy Cheetah Helicopter? Seriously, think about it... 2) "They downloaded all the co-ordinates" - Oh did they really, why exactly would 1 transport Heli have the precise co-ordinates of every helipad at the LoC? Sounds like BS to me. Oh and in-case you're wondering - the flag staff from both sides already share information about their posts, (incl. co-ordinates in some cases). 3) As for how the Heli strayed 20kms into PoK - C'mon these, all these poor Cheetah pilots have is a portable GPS which is vulnerable to rough weather. I'm surprised we don't have more of these incidents...
That being said. PA acted in a very professional manner. Credit where credit is due.
Regards
The calibre of a general is not measured in waging and winning a war. Rather, it is gauged by his ability to maintain peace. And for that, general Kayani gets full marks. However, it must be remembered that peace only comes with strength not weakness. Having said that we must not forget the contribution of PAF in swiftly acting to arrest the intruding Indian chopper. Full marks for leadership of PAF also.
Well done PAF. Shoot it down next time and avenge our Atlantique that we shot down in our own airspace!
Thankless idiots
Excellent work.
The pilots should not have been freed easily. They should have been held for interrogation.
Now here comes the Real indian media face :). Guys ready to see a 100 episode SOAP on this topic.
Well no one can verify that whether Pakistan downloaded or not, and If yes then that's Ok because I am sure Indians are not so innocent they would leave Helicopter as it is if there was Pakistani Helicopter. Its just a news which cannot be verified so let be it.
Now the India babies are crying? we should have detained their soldiers and their chopper and shold have released them after getting a benefit, probably taking our Siachen land back. They are not thankful.
Is is a ploy to undermine the growing friendly relations between the two countries? We are treading in unsafe waters here. Shouldn't the Media on both sides of the divide be a little more careful in reporting these sensational stories! Every time there is an atmosphere of reconciliation something ill happens... Not blaming anyone. Just food for thought!
Siachin and Kargil . What will Pakistan do with these areas. Donate them to China?
staff of the copter must be having a nice dessing down back home.
They should have kept the helicopter and used it for flood relief.
The above comments say it all...thanks for such an amusing time! The Hindustan Times report is getting the treatment it deserves!
and yeah Hindustan times further says that the helipad on which chopper landed was an artillery firing position which the Indian army didn't knew before !
Who needs the ISI when Indians are nice enough to come to Pakistan personally to drop their sensitive data!
Well that IAF heli intruded about 30 km inside Pakistan controlled Kashmir, again Pakistani air defence was sleeping as it was during Abbottabad ! What mighty Pak Army and PAF have to say!. Obtaining info about helipads is not a big deal and a heli do not contain secret codes and nicknames.
Just need to programme the coordinates in cruise missile and send it to helo bases next time there is a conflict. EMP for Bangalore and couple of Babur of Bombay High too.
It was a deliberate TEST by the Indians to see HOW FAR they can move into PAK airspace without being detected. Daring Test, conducted with Positive results. so now the Indians know they can easily venture 40 KM inside PAK territory with a ordinary loud helicopter (Unlike the USA Stealth choppers). Bonus for doing such a daring TEST?? FREE Refueling by PAK! Oh & the DATA on the chopper??? those are just dummy data as a bogey giving FALSE co-ordinates to way lay the PAK army :)
...barter for the Fuel cost.... ;)
Keep it up boys. Done good job. Personnel of Pakistan Air Force, specially pilots are known among the best.
A big lolzzzzzzz for those who were exchanging lovely comments yesterday about Pakistan's gesture. I think now its absolutely clear who is spreading hatered and working against the peace process. I have lost any hope of better relations and I hate Indians.
This is what Pakistan should have done. They should have shot the crew too.
Typical Indian way of thanking Pakistani kindness!
The Hindustan Times's editor must be smoking something really hard stuff..that data is available all over the internet..our NDTV,TIMESNOW produced 100 episodes from these very secretive/sensitive??? bases..what i really wanted to know is ,what Pakistan army is gonna do with the redundant data....
Pakistan's could have easily shot down the chopper yet they refuelled it and let Indian pilots go back. It shows relations are improving between the two nuclear armed rivals!!! India should be thankful and perhaps return the favour in the same manner, next time.
Peace
No hatred for India, but in this matter mistake was committed by Indian side. Indian should not worry abt GPS data, the data which even couldn't guide indian pilots how can help pakistan?
Indian, crying doesnt help. Thats standard SOP. Any country will do that same, unauthorised entry duly needs to be examined. There is abs nothing wrong in taking required information from the released crew.
Grow up guys
@Asif Butt: Asif Butt! You are absolutely correct in your asessment. Nowadays hi-tech being a sensitive and complicated equipment, it is the better part of wisdom to examine it in its totality. Salams.
I have been observing Indian Media that they just act like two little kids who the greedy one often blames the other for his own fame and all , Is it that Indian Media plan to allege Pakistan by deliberately bringing helicopter so that Pakistan bring it down and after questioning and releasing them peacefully and they start blame on Pakistan ? It is such an Immature act of India that they just allege Pakistan and nothing else, did they put all sensitive data at helicopter so that they can blame at us. Very Shame. My message to Indian media is only two words "GROW UP" and three words further "GET A LIFE"
welldone pak army..you have done what you should have done with that chopper.we are proud of you.
If they really had the brains to do that then thank God.. they should have just kept the helicopter and let the 4 officers go after a couple of weeks or so.. maybe get some of our boys back from indian jails.
Probably ghazals by Jagjeet sing and songs by Lata. Wasnt the chetak ONLY there to fix another chopper in the area. I'm not sure why it would keep "sensitive data" for that matter
"breached" indian security?
like where are the editors - sleeping?
the heli breached pakistani security and pakistan took the data from it.
open your brains please and know what is going on your page
putting a grammatically correct sentence is NOT editing!!!!
If that would have happened other way round and a Pakistani helicopter doing the same thing then Indians would have shown the world that "see! did we tell you they are terrorists"
Its Standard Operational Procedure to erase GPS tracking/mapping capabilities before allowing the helicopter to depart because it can easily map it's return route and deliver the Pakistani base's location to the Indians. So if the GPS data was erased, it was done to prevent the location of the Pakistani base being known to the Indians. But of course that won't make sensational news for the Indian media. They had to find an excuse to demonise Pakistanis.
Well, look likes that Indian were expecting that their crew will be sent back with Chocolate cakes.
Vienna,25-10-2011 Nothing is lost when good senses prevail.Landing in bad weather is important for safety.That is natural force landing. So is the release.The concern is if the bad weather was fake meant to open a pandora´s box.Normal under the current relationship.The point is systems work on both sides.On the last point of the triangle,the system is reinforced with super concrete structure. There is nothing to fear for all the three elements including the paste used for sandwich that is Pakistan. Take it easy. Taravadu Taranga Trust for Media Monitoring TTTMM India --Kulamarva Balakrishna
Indians stop crying and whining here and go deal with your government. If this story is true than why was the crew incompetent enough to stray 20-30 kms into our territory. We were nice enough to not escalate the issue and send them back. Blame your own government and go cry and complain over there. And before putting up snarky replies, consider for a second what your government would have done if they were in our place. Its a zero-sum game - Grow up and Deal with it!
Hopefully this is just paranoia as it would be a pretty low thing to do under current circumstances. But, even if they did, for once I can say it's India's own dumb move. If you have sensitive data with so little protection that all you have to do is turn your back and it can be taken on an aircraft that is created with the possibility of crashing and falling into the hands of an enemy as a given, it's something to be embarrassed about.
if pakistan have stolte sensitive data from indian helicopter then thats good.
THANKLESS INDIANS!!!!
lolz. Now Pakistani officals tell him the right way, how to land and drive it..
Dont we have the right to scan and browse whatever alien UFO enters our territory ?
Is this not a failure of Indian technology and controllers ?
What if those GPS devices had further co-ordinates of Pakistani locations fed into them ?
Would anyone just let something like this go without introspection ?
Come on , GROW UP !
what else you can expect? A happy lunch?
Good Job Pakistan if its true. It could have been security threat for our forces there
That is what happens when you land in the enemy territory. Well-done Pakistan Army and Well-done one PAF. India was trying to copy USA Abbotabad operation.
"The report states that the data includes the GPS coordinates and location of all Indian helipads in the Siachen and Kargil areas."
1.How come one chopper is having navigation data of all the choppers in that region?
2.What Pakistan can do with these navigation data?
Hindustan Times gives too much credit to Pakistan high tech knowledge. That's what Pakistan should have done. Good that we now should be alert what to do next time.
What crashed?? The helicopter was made to land.........sensational headlines but little substance!!