One step closer: Pakistan, India finalise new visa agreement draft
The draft was finalized during second meeting of Joint Working Group (JWG) on visa matters which also examined modalities for streamlining visa procedures, an Indian Ministry of External Affairs statement said.
The two-day meeting, held in pursuance of the decision taken during India-Pakistan Home/ Interior Secretary-level talks held in March, was follow-up on deliberations held in first meeting of JWG in Islamabad in June this year.
It was attended by Anil Goswami, Additional Secretary (Foreigners), Ministry of Home Affairs and Nasar Hayat, Additional Secretary, Ministry of Interior from Pakistani. "The discussions were held in a friendly and cordial atmosphere. The two sides finalised draft text of the agreement which will be submitted to the respective governments for obtaining necessary approvals in order to sign the agreement at an early date," MEA said.
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I for one welcome a better visa regime.
@Ayesha I hear what you are saying. But a large part of the hatred on the other side seems to be due to a misconception that Muslims are treated unfairly in India. I don't think India is perfect when it comes to treatment of minorities (which state is?), but I think our society in general tries hard to be fair. If a crackpot mullah visits India and stirs up trouble, even better we can throw him in jail which the Pak authorities cannot seem to do.
Also I don't think terrorists will wait in line to get a visa etc. They'll row a boat from Karachi or whatever. India will need to still guard against that. But with a better visa regime at least normal Pak civilians will be able to come over, conduct business, make friends etc.
Which is why I am all for it.
All great countries have excellent relations with their neighbors. US/Canada is an example. China/Russia almost had a nuclear exchange in 1969, today they are the best of friends. India's relations with China are finally improving after decades of silly arguments. Its time India/Pak relations improved also.
I am an entrepreneur and I have to visit US often; so far, there has been no problem at the immigration in the US airports. It has been smooth sailing till now. I have seen how certain people are singled out in the immigration counter; apparently the immigration officials have their own 'cues' and 'flags'.
Imagine I visit Pakistan on some business; and my passport will show that I have made a short visit to Pakistan. This is a good enough 'flag' for any immigration official.
I will no longer have an easy time at the immigration line; I will be asked to step aside and I will have to wait interminably.
That means, I will have to pay a heavy price for visiting Pakistan. Is it worth it? Not for Indians, certainly !
@LOL: your 26/11 is Pakistan's routine life. You cant even count how many incidents have been happened in pakistan and yet Pakistanis with a big heart never cried like indians. Though there are visible proofs that Indians are activitely involved in disturbing pakistans peace.
The entire basis of Partition and pakistan's transformation from a multi-religious society before 1947 to what its today, is at risk on any contact with India. It can shake the very foundation of Pakistan , as our brillianty strategic analysts have warned us from GHQ.
For India too , contacts with Pakistan have proven very dangerous. The best outcome for both countries is zero contact.
@bangash: "You didn’t just dismiss Jinnah, you dismissed Musims as well, which is why Pakistan and Bangladesh now exist and Kashmir wants to leave Indian clutches.emphasized text" You seem to have absolutely no respect for History, which qualifies you eminently to call yourself an "enlightened" Pakistani. So, congratulations! As regards Pakistan and Bangla Desh, your present state only reaffirms how right our gut instincts were. Therefore, it is not a big loss, in fact it may be a matter for heartfelt thanksgiving! As far as Kashmir goes, no matter what a million or so Kashmiri Muslims say or do, they don't speak for all Kashmiris. Kashmir will continue to be an "atoot ang" of India. Don't you fret about that. We don't!
What`s about senior citizens, particularly those who were borne on either side and migrated later on. Such people will disappear, I think in near future, with an immense wish to see their birth places.
More sikh and hindu pilgrims who every year complain about three city visa policy and who wants to settle in dharivi
@G Din You didn't just dismiss Jinnah, you dismissed Musims as well, which is why Pakistan and Bangladesh now exist and Kashmir wants to leave Indian clutches.
Analyst : Very convenient to quote Jinnah as and when required and in part. Is it not. But I like the "Zero contact" bit very much. Just keep the Hafeez Sayeed ,Haid and similar terrorists and their followers within your borders and we will even forget that Pakistan exists. Isnt that both of us want. The ball is in your court.
cant wait to get my indian visa. Will liberate india by myself
@Khan:
Good post. I agree on most ponts.
"Why so much hate. Are all of you just trying to have an online war of words? Truth being if you were in any neutral country, for example the UAE, I can guarantee Indians and Pakistani’s would be friends without nationality becoming an issue."
You can't blame Indians for their "hate". Pakistan has had a policy of terrorist proxy war against India as a stated policy. The latest big one being the Mumbai attack. Has Pakistan been sincere in bringing the LeT terrorists to justice? Why should the Indians trust the Pakistani state? Doesn't Pakistani establishment still train, arm, nurture and deploy terrorists against India and Afghanistan as it has been doing for the past three decades?
It is not that Indians or Afghans want to hate Pakistan. The real source of antagonism is the confrontational terrorist policies of the Pakistani establishment. Once that is gone, you will see warm relations between neighbors.
@Aamir: "This will be advantageous to Pakistanis as now they can visit Taj Mahal and Bollywood award shows." Do it at the first opportunity as Taj Mahal is expected to collapse structurally in the next 2 - 5 years! Bollywood can wait! @Analyst: "India should respect the sentiments of Jinnah and abstain from any contacts with Pakistan. Zero contact, should be the official policy." We did not care too much about " the sentiments of Jinnah" while he was alive, why would India care to "respect the sentiments of Jinnah" after he is dead? I tend to lean towards your sentiments about "zero contact", though!
Jinnah was right about something and that was Indians ( he called them Hindus) and Muslims are as similar as cheese and chalk, so he demanded seperate state for Muslims as they could not live with Hindus. Thats the ideology of Pakistan. India should respect the sentiments of Jinnah and abstain from any contacts with Pakistan. Zero contact, should be the official policy.
@Pakistani First: I want to sink my teeth into best Paki mangoes....whats their name and their pricing?:)
My family and I have visited India more than half a dozen times and we enjoyed each and every day of our trips. However, during the last several years the Indian govt has hesitated in giving us visa to India. It is a shame that the terrorists have actually won and created higher walls between us. We have been acting as unofficial ambassador of goodwill between the two countries. I remember the day when Nusrat F. Ali passed away, we were in Agra and the Indians were really sad on his death just like we are at the passing of J. Singh a couple of days ago. Now we go to Southeast Asian countries like Malaysia, Philippines, Hong Kong, Brunei, Singapore, etc., and spend a few thousand dollars there on our vacations each winter. Even though it hurts but I would not insist on going to any place where I am not welcomed.
Finally some good news.....
The problem is the venemous attitude of the indian media. I remember in 2005 there was much goodwill between the people of the two countries. Now the indian media has created hated among the people. Most of the comments are based on emotions of hate rather than logic.
I don;t think we need any liberalization of trade or visas with India since it will only degrade Pakistan.
Come and try Karachi's biryani, karhai, tikka, suggi etc. I'm sure you will come back for more.
There is a hard-core constituency in Pakistan that actively works to cultivate enemity with India. That constituency is most powerful and controls foreign affairs and other affairs of the state. When India tries to promote good relations, it makes that constituency angry because it sees that as another Indian ploy to reduce enemity. Its seen as cunning India trying to dominate Pakistan by pretending they have good relations. Kargil, 26/11 attacks and numerous others, either by the state or its guidance were launched by the very group that desires hostile relations with India. So indian efforts to make VISA system more friendly will be viewed as anathor cunning act by India to reduce hostility. This enrages the group that seeks hostile relations and forces it to do things like parliament attack, Kargil, 26/11 etc.
Why does India needlessly provoke that group into hostile acts against india ?
Sounds great. However, wait for another Mumbai style terrorist attack and it will be all washed out. When I was young, wrestlers from Lahore used to visit annual "Dangal" in my home town every year. Came 1965 war and it all stopped. Indo-Pak relations are like one step forward and two steps backward. VISA is a step forward and I am very sure that the two steps backward will follow fairly soon. There is a problem of trust deficit between two nations and that can not be wished away so quickly. Indo-Pak relations are entering a new phase. We will develop case by case relations and will continue having over all deep enmity in foreseeable future. It will be foolish to expect good relations between two countries all across the board. .
@Shery:
India shouldn't allow this liberalized visa regime and trade with pakistan. If you look at Pakistan, there are no business billionares due to the fact that they being a small country, have no economies of scale. India is a huge market, which Pakistan don't have and India is just helping the business community of Pakistan to become billionares by giving them economy of scale. It is very difficult for them to have a huge market, and india is doing a great mistake by allowing the expansion of paki business. india should never allow the pakis to use its economy to become rich, these pure warriors were never been nice or friendly to India.
@ ayesha - I hang my head as a peaceful Pakistani but I agree with you. Protect Indian Muslims from the madness that has overtaken Pakistan because us normal, peaceful people were too afraid to speak and then we moved abroad out of fear to live back home.
Now ISI can do better surveillance of Indian targets.
Hefty commision awaits pakistani traders dealing Indian exports to Afgan via Pak. It will go down to general public unlike transit fee/aid paid by US.
Very sick people usually comments from the both sides of the border (usually paid spooks) and they only talk 'Hate'. As a Pakistani we should come out of this paranoia that India will somehow overtake our country and similarly India should not worry that another Ghazanavi is in making. We have established ourselves as two separate countries; good or bad is a different thing, and we should behave more maturely. We should build business to business and people to people contacts. It will help us to divert more money for health, education, poverty reduction etc. Only fundos and armies on the both sides benefit from perpetual hate. Quaid wanted our relationship similar to US and Canada, yep that is too much of an ask, however Germany and France could do.
Once a Pakistani trader built an economic interest in India and vice versa, the high walls of mistrust will start to crumble - it will take a while but it is solution for the both countries. Yes for time being India is rising and selling services to West, however these services are on decline as these economies have problems of their own and they have to retract manufacturing from China and Far East to give their own people jobs. It will happen soon and it will be better for India to sell nearby and make more money than wait for distant orders.
India needs to put in place more visa restrictions, not less. I hope there is lot more scrutiny before visas are issued. India's trade with Pakistan is a pittance, and not worth this. Indian goods today reach Pakistan via Dubai and Singapore, which adds cost but is a safer option than allowing freer movement of people across the border. We need better border fencing and patrols.
@Babloo: u belong to thehawk group who doesntbelieve in good relations between the country. Bettet stay out of the forum and do not spit poision which is hallmark of illiterate and criminal minded ndividual
I hope they lift landing restrictions for all of us and we dont hav to report to the police station.
@Human: @Babloo: I am a Kashmiri origin Lahori and have a business in Germany. I am a regular buyer of Kashmiri and Banarsi products from India.
My business partners are Muslims and Hindus, but such things have no importance in the business world, because business community is married with their business and fair business is their uppermost religion.
Because of same language and culture I have family-like relations with many. Therefore visa and trade facilities between both the countries shall give a very big boost to the business especially cottage industry with which I am myself connected.
I wonder what you people are from profession and how you earn your living, but with so much negativity, pessimism and vulgarity what are you trying to prove?
Here's hoping the people who run it aren't corrupt and lazy after implementation. Boom.
Good news. India has already has a data base of terrorists. Now it can increase further with their photos and arrest them at the airports. Wise move India.
Why so much hate. Are all of you just trying to have an online war of words? Truth being if you were in any neutral country, for example the UAE, I can guarantee Indians and Pakistani's would be friends without nationality becoming an issue.
As a Pakistani I am saying this that no matter how much hate you show online, the truth is most of you would like to have an easier way to travel to the neighboring country and why not it does have historical sights and beautiful places to see just like Pakistan. And I believe deep down inside even Indians want the same.
Plus give me a break guys, it's already hard enough on Pakistani's travelling to any country and getting visas with the green passport that's become a curse so be thankful that this is happening.
I totally support liberalized trade between the 2 countries but not this step. When countries around the world have made it difficult for Pakistani people to get visa due to a generic terrorism threat, what is the logic for India which has repeatedly been a victim to do this. On the one hand our brave jawans lose their lives on J&K border to prevent infiltration and on other hand, we are simply opening up the front door.
Just as Pakistanis are very careful about which Americans they give visa to ad ISI is involved in clearance process, similarly granting of visa has to be a very careful process.
My concern is not just outright terrorists who may abuse the liberal visa regime. It is also Wahabi mullahs who may come in and spread extremists ideas in Indian mosquess. As an Indian Muslim, I do ot have to undergo the problems that Pakistanis do when they go to another country because we do not have reputation forterror. I would like to keep it that way.
I totally understand that 99% of Pakistanis are not terrorists but the mayhem that the 1% can cause and the adverse impact of that on Muslims living in India is undesirable.
@Pervaiz Majeed: Dude, it doesn't matter what you wish for, the problem is now country in the world want to maintain any conact with yours. That is the sad part.
Its good idea but its importance of this idea should have been realized much earlier....... My question to all the media driven people having zero meter mind that if the people of sub continent lived together for centuries other than last 60 years than why not now may go for mutual trade?????
@TPervaiz Majeed: that only leaves you with North Korea, Somalia and Cuba to deal with.
This will be advantageous to Pakistanis as now they can visit Taj Mahal and Bollywood award shows.
Chalo bhailog, get ready for more 26/11.Buy yourself a portable bomb detector b4 its price gets too high.
@sami: they are afraid our GORGEOUS MISS MEERA GEE might take over bollywood. LOL
Methinks the commenters above doth protest too much.
i am not in favour of such pact. foolishness on indian part.
Indeed a very good step. Hopefully we make good use of it. And seriously hope with this the regional security situation does not spiral out of hand.
Just want to clear here as we Pakistan's don't want much of this trade, this favors Indian more than pakistan :)
@ Sami .... they love us so much that's why tell your leaders tooo.
@Babloo: "More contacts, concessions, hope will only breed more bitterness." "Barhao na aapas mein millat ziyada; mubada ki ho jae nafrat ziyada" (" Do not get too close to (familiar with) each other, lest it lead to more hatred (bitterness)" How true! Take a good look at US-Pak relations!
@Babloo: I agree with you 1000% . As a Pakistani, I think we should not have any contact with India. I'd prefer to have contacts with any nation on earth less India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-Pak-finalize-draft-visa-accord-to-ease-travel/articleshow/10356760.cms
^ look at the comments at times of india, so naive.
Hopefully this can be successful so that the non political common people can enjoy each others' company and countries.
The holder of a visa should be restricted to visit only those places for which the visa has been granted and should not be allowed to freely roam the country.
It should be the duty of the Immigration Office at the port of landing to make necessary arrangements to take the finger prints of each and every traveler and keep a photocopy of the passport to maintain the record as who has come in and who has gone out.
Only people having machine readable passports should be granted visas to travel so that either government should have complete details of the visitors and purpose of visit.
The applicants should submit passports at least three months before the traveling date so that necessary investigations should be made prior to granting a visa to any individual.
Wise step. I wanna 5 years multiple entries visa of India.
This is a positive development, but where are the details? How will this make it easier for ctizens of the two countries to get visit visas. It would be nice to have some of these details instead of who was present at the meeting.
do indians really need visa to enter a country infested with terrorists, it means, reality is not what we see, so indian government belives it is still worth to ease visa restrictions, I really wonder if this is a better deal for india ?.It means India knows better whats going cross the boaders between Pak and Afghanistan.
I think India is better served by zero contact with Pakistan. More contacts, concessions, hope will only breed more bitterness. Look at past 60 year history.