Pakistan

Indian PM isolated on Pakistan: WikiLeaks

US judges that Manmohan Singh is isolated within his own government over talks with Pakistan.

Afp March 15, 2011

NEW DEHLI: The United States judged that Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was isolated within his own government over pushing for resumed talks with Pakistan, cables obtained by WikiLeaks revealed Tuesday.

Pakistan and India suspended talks in 2008 after gunmen killed 166 people in the western Indian city of Mumbai, and only agreed last month to resume their dialogue.

In an August 2009 diplomatic cable published by The Hindu newspaper, US ambassador Timothy Roemer reported that Singh was "more isolated than we thought within his own inner circle".

Roemer said Singh lacked allies because he was a "great believer" in communicating with Islamabad – in contrast to the then national security adviser M.K. Narayanan.

The prime minister said earlier this month he would approach new peace talks with an "open mind", adding that all disputes including a long-running feud over Kashmir would be discussed.

"We wish to resolve all outstanding issues between the two countries through friendly dialogue," he said.

Pakistan's recently-appointed Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar is slated to visit her Indian counterpart S.M. Krishna in New Delhi in July at the start of the full-scale resumption of talks.
India and Pakistan started a formal peace dialogue in 2004, continuing until the rupture caused by the Mumbai attacks.

The nuclear-armed countries have fought three wars since the subcontinent was partitioned in 1947, and relations have been plagued by border disputes and accusations of Pakistani militant activity against India.

COMMENTS (72)

engr. | 12 years ago | Reply i have a solution to both country on kashmir issue.....just measure the area........divide it 50/50........but i think this is impossible........why because india thinks that azad kashmir is also part of jammu kashmir.....so i think i country should sacrifice....for both the nations.....if one country not sacrifice war should be happen between india n pakistan......but in this 21 centry war is different... its a war for destabilizing country by every mean........but i want to remember all pakistaniz pakistan will be Inshallah on earth at the end of world. why because pakistan was created on 27 ramadan LILATUL KADAAR 14 aug its a gift that God will give you.....so people just wait n INSHALLAH you will see wat happen to pak enemy.......i can see india will be divide into parts soooooooon........

vasan | 13 years ago | Reply Kashuri Ladka: I dont know what kind of knowledge you have about India, From your post, it seems to be next to nothing, all concoted and stories probably spread by Pakistani urdu press, assuming you are a Pakistani. My conclusions are confirmed by the biggest joke written by you, ie Azadi Kashmiri flourishing>>>>

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KashuriLadka | 13 years ago | Reply Even with outside manufactured terror inside Pakistan namely from across our Eastern Border and Western Border at the hands of CIA. Even after all the deaths of innocent Muslims in Pakistan - More Muslims have been massacred in the name of Hinduism in India, more Christians, More Sikhs have been murdered in India at the hands of Hindu fanatics. Non uppercaste Hindus live as invisible people in India hence why they have turned to Communist and the Maoists or Christianity or Islam. The untouchabled The Daleets account in territory 40% of India and they seek sovereignty from India and seek to RECLAIM their land once colonised by The British and taken hostage in 1947 - 1950's by Nehru's social experiment called India. Hyderabad was a nation now absorbed into Andhra Pardesh, once the richest nation on earth forced and invaded by India in the 1950's - similarly Assam just like Kashmir. You have inherited the British Empire in this region known as India. India stands for over 560 sovereign states colonised by the British that once made up the colourful Sub Continent at one stage The British sought to colonise Islamic Khorasan (Central Asia) into the British Raj (India). They gacve up that idea after losing every single man bar one in what is known as Afghanistan and Pakistan today. India is a LIE and you cant go living off lies and borrowed histories and geographies - history has a way of repeating itself and setting the record straight. Kashmiris will struggle till the last breath for Freedom (Azadi), once a rich, educated paradise is a figment of her former self in the valley yet Azad Kashmir in Pakistan flourishes considering it was the most deprived part of Kashmir at the hands of Hindu and Sikh marauders.

KashuriLadka | 13 years ago | Reply Kashmir sold to a thug, a warlord by the British in 1846, this thug declared himself Maharaja and committed untold genocides in kashmir as did his descendants - this was the Hindu Dogra Rule. This also marked the large flooding of non Kashmiri Hindus to Jammu and Kashmir. We Kashmiris have lived on our land since time immorial, we are a different ethnicity, different language, different culture, different religion and entirely different people to the people who define themselves as Indians today. Not only is our history different to those who define themselves as Indian today but look at our geography and you will see where we reside. If you were to place a Kashmiri along the ganges plains he would stand out like a sore thumb, we can never belong amongst you people and your contempt towards us is duely noted. We are not your posessions nor your trophy, we are a rValley Civilisation. We Kashmiris demand the implementation of the United Nations Resolution a free and fair plebiscite under a united nations auspice. Just to crush the bravardo and nonsense of the Indians - our brothers in Pakistan in Azad Kashmir (Free Kashmir) are willing to be included in this free and fair plebiscite. Kashmir belongs to the Indus and in the modern age it is known as Pakistan, you have tried changing our histories, geographies you have even tried deplacing yus in our own homeland. Since 1947 alone the aversion known as India has displaced 1 million Kashmiris and killed 1 million Kashmiris with many unaccounted for. Thousands of our sisters, mothers dishonoured by the Indian HINDU army and HINDU Police. It can never work in Palestine and it surely can never work in Kashmir. Bhookah Nanga Hain Hindustan Jaan sey Pyara hain Pakistan. Where there is on honour only dishnour lives and I speak of every Hindu Indian Security Officer and Policeman who we have damned. Kashmir Banega Banega Pakistan. Our culture, our ethnicity, our language, our religion, our history and geography is tied with Islamic Central Asia and Pakistan. There is nothing you can do that will change this. For us India is an aversion born out of colonised sovereign nations granted nationhood by The British. Kashmir was a princely state and always tied to Islamic Central Asia. Pakistanis have reclaimed their land, their honour, their nation from the British and their foot soldiers the Hindus of the aversion known today as India. Deny us our right and freedom and you will suffer far greater consequences across the Himalayan regions down tot he seven sister states, Assam, Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu. You live on borrowed time and borrowed history, you can be amicable and live in peace or face uprising everywhere. Kashmiriat ka Matlab hain Azadi Azadi ka Matlab hain Pakistan.ich, vibrant old civilisation that has had nothing to dow ith the ones that can be termed the ganges civilisation. The Vedics have been destroyers, invaders in our history as they are in our present. We belong with the rest of central Asia and Pakistan the true inheritor of the title heir to the Indus

V S S SARMA | 13 years ago | Reply Magedara: India should not learn how to treat its religious minorities from Pakistan which has the worst record in this respect. Research and you will know the answer. Remember how you guys treated your own countrymen now known as Bangladeshis ? Remember how you are killing every monority community systematically, including a Federal Govt Minister ? Pakistan is a living shame on earth.

Saad | 13 years ago | Reply lets not get into the old debate and hatred, it won't take us anywhere. India and Pakistan are both reality and lets accept it with an open heart. Let's celebrate our common culture and history, we share so much in common. Let Kashmiris decide what they want and lets not fight over that.

Magedara | 13 years ago | Reply While Indian politicians preaching Gandhian philosophy of non-violence to the outside world, they have done precious little to prevent gross human rights abuses and violence against their own religious minorities. This has been the pattern of India’s domestic policy over the last 50 years that has been designed to maintain Hindu hegemony while repressing the impoverished low caste citizens to prevent them moving up on the social ladder by leaving Hinduism and converting to Christianity, Islam, or even to Buddhism where their caste is immaterial. India has a history of being an intolerant society towards religious minorities, and in many occasions, such acts of violence have been reportedly carried out by the instigations of powerful national political leaders. One of the well-known cases is the destruction of a Mosque in Ayodya, where leaders of a radical Hindu political party, the Barathiya Janatha Party (BJP), reportedly participated in the attack. An equally important question is how the Indian media and political pundits have conducted themselves during these violent acts against its own people. India’s so-called liberal media and political analysts are very quick to condemn violence, even against the ruthless terrorist groups by the legitimate armed forces in neighboring countries to please India’s own local political audiences, but they are surprisingly mute when their own people commit brutal acts against religious minorities. Rarely do India’s intellectuals and the middle class show solidarity with their impoverished fellow Indians. They do not demand or advocate social and economic programs to uplift the economic conditions of these powerless Indians who are predominantly low caste Hindus. The elite Indians benefit from these low caste members of the society as they provide the cheap menial labor for the rich and powerful. They exploit these people without any remorse day in and day out. Under these conditions, when these downtrodden people seek to escape from their daily miseries, often by converting to Christianity or Islam, the Hindu extremists resents these conversions, and carryout brutal attacks against them. As long as India’s unsolved domestic problems remain ignored, no amount of hypocrisy of Indian politicians on the international stage can whitewash their own failures.

Scorekeeper | 13 years ago | Reply Scorecard: Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Retd hurt 0

Shan Ka ABBA JAAN | 13 years ago | Reply @Shan: To all my Paki Baighairat Bhikaris who feel too high about their Punjabi land, yeah the very same targets who will not stop short of selling off themselves in return for a few bucks (before you start jumping up and down in your pajamis, dont forget Raymond Davis Owns YOU!) Kashmir is a non-negotiable! If you feel you can jump up and down and its going to be heard! well you may continue jumping, coz you have nothing else left to do, now that your LORD aka RAYMOND DAVIS has finished his Vacation in your Punjab. Punjab on its part should stop using this word "Pakistan". If anything its just Punjab and nothing else. Balochistan is as Independent a Country as any other. The same is the case with Sindhudesh and Pakhtunistan. It is about time that the world recognises the farce that Pakistan is and understand the ground realities. Balochistan needs to liberated before it takes over Punjab and then it will be out for everyone to see that what these punjabis call as Pakistan is nothing but Balochistan, Sindhudesh and Pakhtunistan. Punjabistan Zindabhag!

Arindom | 13 years ago | Reply I am amused to see the psuedo-patriotism of all the converted-to-Islam Hindus/Indians now residing in this newly (60 yrs is brand new in 5000 years) created country called Pakistan! What are they trying to prove, really? To please and impress their Arab masters? who anyway treat them no better than 2nd class humans? really Funny!!

Anon | 13 years ago | Reply @ Dr. Saleem Siddiqi- I hope they only doctored the history books in Pakistan. I would be really worried if I were to be your patient. Just kidding, but seriously man, you are educated, leave aside your pride/ego and do some research and if possible rational thinking. India will eventually have to speak to Pakistan but Indians clearly are not in a mood right now (no guesses for the reasons). Forget about India and Indians for a while (for your own good), focus on Pakistan. Moreover don't expect anyone will be taking anything you say (even in your newspaper) very seriously. Look at the news now- one pakistani is worth 30 odd million dollars (that too dead and only if an American kills him, the ones living are probably valued less). And as far as your nuclear weapons are concerned you and I should no longer be worried about them falling into wrong hands. You should be more worried whether your country still has them? For all you know they might have been already sold to highest bidder.

Dr. Saleem Siddiqi | 13 years ago | Reply @John: and other Indians You guys have plenty of time to utter filth without sense. Pakistan does not need to have trade with India. We are better off. It is India's problem to counter insurgency problem in India not ours. Pakistan has many times offered talks to resolve this issue but "Murghay Kay Aik Tang" main na manoo. We are Muslims and believe in Allah. inshallah one day Kashmir will be liberated and both Kashmir (Indian side and Pakistan side) will be one as an independent state. Write my words if you are still alive by that time. This is my last email on this subject as "Bhains kay Agay Been Bajaana Fazool hay".

Arijit Sharma | 13 years ago | Reply @Adil: "For a plebiscite over Kashmir, I agree that even the area administered by Pakistan should also be included,plus all the Kashmiri leaders from both sides of the LOC must be included in the discussions." That is not good enough. You will need to reverse the migration into the area administered by Pakistan. If non-Kashmiris vote, of-course they will vote for Pakistan. Unlike Pakistan, India does not allow non-Kashmiris to migrate to Kashmir. If other Indians were allowed to migrate to Kashmir, do you think the Kashmir valley would have remained "muslim majority" ? So you decide who is better protecting the rights and culture of the Kashmiris ? The bigger issue is - is Pakistan ready to accept another 160 million Muslims ? If you insist that Kashmir is partitions unfinished agenda and belongs to Pakistan because it is Muslim - India can insist that Pakistan take all Muslims who chose to stay back in India - after all the partition happened on the lines of religion. Even things like open borders are non-workable solutions. There is no option, but to accept the status quo.

Shan | 13 years ago | Reply To all my Indian "friends" over here, stop calling Kashmir a integral part of India :) As every one in there right senses know that Kashmiris are always favoring Pakistan and if given a choice then Kashmir would be a part of Pakistan now! As long as Missiles are considered, Indian media it self accepted that Pakistani Missiles are better then the Indian Missiles.Pakistani Missiles are capable of not being seen in any kind of a satellite or a radar system,If you do not believe me then do a little research!

anil | 13 years ago | Reply Only Modi or Advani can reply them better.Modi is also good for our economy.we are really fed up with slow and corrupt approach of UPA gov.

sudhir | 13 years ago | Reply My heart goes out for the Indians-pakis who have converted to 1slam. See what this religion has made out of these Indian-paki Mus1ims who are searching their identity with Arabs who treat them just like slaves and called them mohajirs,Maskeens etc.These converts are similar to other Indians in relation to color, language and genes but their loyalties are to their Arabian master who never treat them as equal Mus1ims must understand that they have come in conflict with fellow Indians just because of their religion and must convert to other religion may be Buddhist, Xian or others

sudhir | 13 years ago | Reply No need to talk with mawalis Mawali is a term in Classical Arabic used to address non-Arab Muslims converts. The term gained prominence in the centuries, as many non-Arabs such as Persians, Egyptians, and Turks converted to Islam. These converts r treated as second class citizens by the Arabs

sudhir | 13 years ago | Reply Present Congress Govt. in India is useless.I don't no what these congressi fools will acheive from these talks except wasting time and tax payers money.Instead of talks Indian govt. must work on hitting pakistan hard economically and isolating them internationally and be prepare for nuclear and conventional war at slightest provokation.

Tony Singh | 13 years ago | Reply @M. Ali Qureshi: What does "meaningful dialogue" mean?

Arindom | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: hmmm....seems like you are another Pakistani who believes all the military-doctored text-books you read in school in Pakistan!!! please stwp out of brainwashed Pakistan and read some neutral and authentic International history of '47, '65 and '71 to get the true picture!!

Ronit | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi If you go an find Internaional source of History, you will find that 1948, 1965, 1971 war was imposed on us by India and Pakistan successfully defended our part. ROFLOL...if that is, what has been taught to you then god may help you...your army started every war and didn't win even a single one...thats right, paki army has not won a single war in its entire history!! If there is anbody under oppression in the subcontinent...its Baloch people, why don't five them a right of self determination?

Adil | 13 years ago | Reply For a plebiscite over Kashmir, I agree that even the area administered by Pakistan should also be included,plus all the Kashmiri leaders from both sides of the LOC must be included in the discussions. @ Shahid Azmi "Balochis, Sindhis and Pashtoons don’t want anything to do with the Punjabistani government – they never have. There should be a plebecite, as per UN Resolutions. Let the Balochis, Sindhis and Pashtoons truly decide their fate. Punjabistan cannot keep on sequestering their rights. We are in the 21st century – India cannot continue being intransigent on a human rights issue. I am sure what you meant was this! You can thank me for the correction." Listen buddy, Sindh,Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa(the province of our Pashtun brothers) are not labelled as Disputed Territory on International maps unlike the state of Jammu & Kashmir. Plus, for the words such as Punjabistani, I would like to notify that the current president of Pakistan is not a Punjabi but a Sindhi,and earlier Musharraf was a Muhajir.Shahid Afridi, the current captain of Pakistani Cricket Team is a Pashtun. @ Irfan,Arijit and other Indians here who are talking about terrorism and begging associated with Pakistan, I don't deny all such problems but tell me how many terrorists were there in Pakistan till 1970s. You guys talk about how US treats us and so on,then let me tell you that I am a Pakistani living in Canada and don't feel scared while disclosing my origin or identity. We have shops here in Toronto with name and flags of Pakistan. Talking about global powers and international community, and terrorism,why didn't you ever ask Hillary Clinton,George W. Bush,Barack Obama or anyone else few questions:Why did you guys fund all those militants in the first place in 1980s? Wasn't Osama your man? and Why did you back military dictatorships in Pakistan(and many other nations)?What about David Headley who turned out to be a worker of CIA?Did anything ring the bell? There are still certain sane voices such as Arundhati Roy and Shah Rukh Khan etc...in your country that display a broader thinking while talking about Indo-Pak relationships.Plus,we are also struggling with creatures like Zaid Hamid whose losing popularity these days. Peace

Richie | 13 years ago | Reply India is the safest place for muslims. Pakistan, the so-called Islamic nation is not safe even for its islamic citizens. One correction is your pakistani propaganda articles: Kashmiri muslim extremists not kashmiris, who want to join Pakistan.The word kashmiri includes hindus, buddhists, non-believers and muslims.

ani | 13 years ago | Reply We, Indians, have come to see Pakistani embrace of Islamism and entrenched hatred of us clearly for what it really is. The misplaced romance of our elders that this is a dispute between "brothers" is just that - MISPLACED! Mr. Singh is of that generation. He is from Punjab and knows the tragedy of partition only too well. Repect him for that. We ask ourselves why should we negotiate with Pakistan when we know it is obsessed with our destruction? Why should we reward murderous behavior unbecoming of a responsible state? Why should we believe that Pakistan will keep its end of the agreement? From a practical point of view, we in 15 years will have a military budget as big as Pakistan's economy and an economy many times larger than Pakistan's. The alliance with China is worthy of respect militarily but not impressive enough. Every where else in the world, I am sorry to say, Pakistan is a terrorist pariah state. So we ask ourselves: what is there to negotiate? Most importantly we ask: why should we negotiate with Pakistan when it is not willing to negotiate with itself? We remain optimistic in our belief that nothing is forever. Hopefully Pakistan will mend its "Islamic" ways. Mr. Singh knows that we will give him a manadate to negotiate - if there is something to - when we feel safe and can trust the change in most dangerous country in the world. Until then, we will build our country safe, secular and strong.

Raza | 13 years ago | Reply Unfortunately Indian establishment's psyche has always been like that since the partition. As a reaction there are hardened attitudes from the Pakistan side as well. The onus of hatred and instability lies on India since its a bigger country.

Arindom | 13 years ago | Reply @Blithe: when you say Kashmir, you mean Pakistan-occupied Kashmir do you? Yes, PoK must be freed!

Arindom | 13 years ago | Reply @Arun (Mumbai): There is absolutely no crying need to trade with Pakistan. Let Pakistan first change it's intent. Let it stop sending terrorists across the border. Let it change it's school textbooks which spread lies that India is the enemy and attacked Pakistan when the opposite is true. Let it review it's "strategic asset" policy - i.e. training terrorist policy. Trade can wait.....you don't want to invite home and enjoy tea with a goon, do you? same holds...

Arindom | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: what about a referundum in Balochistan, Sir?

Colorado NRI | 13 years ago | Reply So what will it take for a broad consensus within Indian leadership in favor of negotiations with Pakistan. Here are just two things: A significant and sustained period during which Pakistan halts covert cross-border militancy and terrorism. This has to be a sincere effort because India's border security forces and its Intelligence services are no fools. Can Pakistan do that? Secondly, can Pakistan negotiate with one voice? Pakistan may have a civilian leadership at present but no one can refute that the military welds vast power especially with regards relations with India. Can its civilian, military and intelligence leadership negotiate as a single entity or will negotiations with one be usurped by the other? These are two fairly reasonable preconditions. Unless Pakistan gets to a point where it can meet just these two conditions, it is not reasonable for it to expect enthusiasm from the other side to dance the dance.

vasan | 13 years ago | Reply Mr Qureshi "It is sad fact that majority of Indians and their present Govt. do not want to resume peaceful and meaningful talks with Pakistan." Talk about what and why, Get stabbed again in the back, Book your terrorists first and then talk about talks, Till then keep away from us "They want to isolate Pakistan as one and only terrorist and extremist Country on earth. Unfortunately they got handsome success at this task." We have no such desires or any other desires about Pakistan. You are doing it yourself. And bettter than anyone else can .Let Pakistan stew in its own juice. We would prefer to be silent spectators. You sort out your internal issues first and then talk about talks "Our Corrupt Govt. & concern agencies did poor performance to maintain the true and soft image of Pakistan." Govt and agencies are hand in hand to loot pakistan. Deal with them also .

akash | 13 years ago | Reply Mr. Singh is a decent man.. he is yet to understand what pakistan is made up of.. we thought Mumbai might wake him up but naa.. Mr. Vajpayee also had good intentions but then kargil happened.. Dear pakistani freinds we in India strongly feel that pakistan needs to show they are sincere about their intentions vis a vis India. The public opinion is strongly opposed to any kind of talks with pakistan.. (barring few who just dont get it). Recently i read in Indian media that pakistan stopped indian officials from questioning Lakhvi and others.. and excuse given was that there is no law which permits it.. contrast this with USA( a superpower) who gave India full access to David headley..Also if pakistan is sincere voice samples of Mumbai attackers can be given to a neutral country to be checked if they are from perpetrators we allege(even our Home minister raised this..) but we all know pak will not do anything about mumbai.. cannot do.. wont do.. or does not have capacity to do anything.. its all same for us.. there is nothing for India really especially looking at the current situation in pak.. let them first clean their system... where murderers are hero worshipped.. and all different regions in utter turmoil.. P:S - (Please dont talk about Kashmir and samjhota.. its hollow when there is massive territorial issues inside pakistan.. and as far as samjhota well i can only say that india is no pakistan..)

Kabir | 13 years ago | Reply Americans have an amazing hold over Pakistanis despite all outward show the latter make of their resentment against the former. Indians that boast obscenely here are as much slaves of Americans too. One man-Timothy Roemer-provides his personal view by reporting that Singh was “more isolated than we thought within his own inner circle”. The opinion of an American-otherwise the maligned one-becomes Gospel truth and based on that the jokers are jumping around with excitement here! Amazing!

Arijit Sharma | 13 years ago | Reply @With love from Pakistan: " ... And I saw in comment section someone said that India is taking its revenge by blocking the water supply and we all(Pakistanis) know that its true and really happening my request is to Indian govt that please do it fast so that we can solve this and other issue’s ONCE FOR ALL you guy’s know what im talking about. ..... " Hasn't Pakistan tried to settle issues ONCE AND FOR ALL with India before ?

Arijit Sharma | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: "I seems your memory is very poor." I can assure you, our memories go back thousands of years. Our memories are especially fresh from the point in time, the first Muslim invaders pillaged Bharat/India and slaughtered millions.

Arijit Sharma | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: "If India will not Liberate Kashmir, the Kashmiris will keep on fighting for their rights and inshallah one day it will be librated fom the shackles of Hindus." "Inshallah", in the Kuffars dictionary means "I am not really sure this is going to happen".

Rotweiller | 13 years ago | Reply I keep hearing from pakis that they have nuclear weapons and that would somehow stop India from taking any action against Pakistan. Does anyone in their right rational mind really think pakis have the resources to maintain a credible nuclear or missile infrastructure. Just look at the countries which have them and the inadequacy of pakistan clearly stands out. Further, India has a sattellite guided defense shield and missile interceptor system in place (the third country to do so after US and mmRussia), which is fully capable of intercepting and destroying any external missile outside it's soil. Any paki missile can be destroyed in paki soil itself and any warhead it carrys would detonate in pak itself when that happens. (please verify in case of doubts!). For a country with one of the largest no. of satellites in space and the ability to send a spacecraft to the moon this is not a very tall order. @Siddique: How do you propose to "throw a brick at India" when it is 8 times the size and has 10 times the military capabilities of Pakistan. How much more delusional can one get! @with love from Pakistan: We all know how suicidal pakis are and we will be happy to make your death wishes come true. :)

Nayab | 13 years ago | Reply Am i visiting a Pakistani ET or an Indian ET? :s People who are pointing fingers at Pakistan, should have a look at themselves (Corruption). Don't forget the Naxals! They're Coming to get youuu !! Isn't that Intimidating? they're a grave danger to your nuclear assets. Pakistan is in trouble, But why are you so concerned? I think Pakistan should abandon the Idea of "aman ki asha" it's a fantasy now.

Babloo | 13 years ago | Reply I often read in right-wing Pak papers as how 'Wars have been imposed on Pakistan' by India. They don't say, 'war was started by India' because that would be an indefensible lie. Not that these guys are not capable of it ! So all wars have been started by Pakistan but presumably imposed by India ! Under that foolish doctrine any country can start a war against the other and then say it was compelled to do so, as Pakistan does. The fact that that logic has reduced Pakistan to 1/2 and made it an economically failed state, seems to make no impact on those who make that delinquent claim. Under that doctrine, Pak can start a war anytime, because it has manufactured many compelling reasons and grieviences from Kashmir to river waters. India needs to understand that its dealing with a lunatic fool, whose game plan is to threaten suicide or mount a suicide attack. India should maintain its distance and never engage unless it sees a rational mindset.

Ryan | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: lol! If they throw a stone a big brick will be thrown at them! lol! I thought Pakis were dum! here a so called Doctor Proves it! LMFAO!

John | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: @Rahim: @Blithe: And all who follow the same line of comments: India has a letter of accession from J&K ruler of 1947 as Pakistan had from numerous ruler on her side. The UN resolution at 1947 asked both sides to withdraw their forces, as per the international rules. India dis, but Pakistan did not. Yet, in mid 1950s election were held in J&K, and J&K assembly passed a motion to join the Indian Union, as every state in India had. PAK had not done it. The J&K assembly still has seats left vacant for the people of POK representatives. Just because Kashmir valley has Muslim majority that did not belong to Pakistan. The letter of accession was the first step, and ratification by the state assembly and its acceptance by the Indian parliament were legal requirements in this civilized world. As usual Pakistan cried, but no one listened and no one is still listening. Following ratification by J&K assembly, the India treasury spent money in Kashmir valley for social and public projects. The ratification by J&K assembly set the course in different direction: the Indus Water Treaty. The IWT was signed by PAK and India and not by PAK, J&K and India. As per international laws and treaties, by signing the treaty PAK acknowledges the India's legal ownership of J&K. Otherwise PAK would also had to negotiate with J&K separately since J&K has her own legal rights. By signing the IWT, PAK acknowledges what is called doctrine of ORIGINAL SIN. That is without the 1947 letter, and subsequent J&K assembly ratification, India would not have been the legal entity to sign the IWT. India got J&K legally three times: in 1947 from the then ruler, through J&K assembly ratification from the people of J&K, and through IWT by Pakistan's acknowledgment of J&K with India. What Pakistan got in return is a solid IWT that withstood tests of time with burden of maintaining the treaty on India's shoulder. PAK can not have both IWT and J&K. PAK chose IWT. The international financiers who give money for both countries for the various mega projects on both sides of the border on the IWT are not STUPID. Without the treaty there was / is no money for Indus projects and without the PAK acknowledging the Doctorine of Original Sin, there is no IWT. Hope your politicians, media, and your text books educate you all in this. As for your altruistic concern about the J&K people: Where will the land lock state could share its commerce? On the west where the terrain is incondusive or the south where the road and market is wide open? The answer can be very obvious, but let me spell it out-SOUTH with India. Just because Kashmir has Muslim population it does not automatically belong to Pakistan. Why not Bangladesh? They were also part of Pakistan in 1947 fiasco. India also has states where the majority are Christians, Buddists, and animists. Majority of Kashmiri Muslims live with others as they do in other states. As far as separatist Muslim population goes, they are not doing their fellow people in J&K any good. Lay down the arms, join the election process, and chart your destiny along with other Muslims and Hindus who are in the assembly now. The things India would like to talk to PAK is about cross border trade, terrorist skirmishes from PAK side and if any luck prevails, the Mumbai fiasco. No India Govt is honest and open as this one. The moment may not come again even if the same party comes to power. J & K is a settled issue in India and in UN and in EU, if any one wants to know. The LOC as final border is a generous concession from India side, also knowing the reality that in 60'years people on both sides moved on. The issues are how to reunite the family that are separated across the LOC. Some movements are there but permanent solution would be nice. J&K is as much as India as Mt. Sinai is to Israel and Mecca is to Muslims. If any one who does not understands this statement, knows nothing about the world we live in. Oh, by the way J&K hate IWT. Good luck. (Please ignore the type errors.)

Sid | 13 years ago | Reply All the responses by the Indian counterparts are typical of any arrogance. If they have any consideration of showing any gesture to serve for any good cause towards settling the long outstanding dispute with its neighbor then all they need do is to first ask themselves where in the world does over six hundred thousand army personnel are deployed to control small population that lives in the disputed Kashmir territory, where UN wants plebiscite. Such an arrogance has been growing only on behest of the countries willing to help India stand against its one neighbor that has been challenging on economic and strategic fronts as well as in a hope to get some slice to support their own troubled economies. After all, it all boils down to the economics. If PAK wants to suffer and pay the price of supporting the weak and oppressed, who cares.

An Indian | 13 years ago | Reply @ Dr. Saleem / Other Pakistanis - Your whole argument about Kashmir is hypocritical. Let's just ignore all the other reasons India has to not trust Pakistan for a second. You Pakistanis want India to talk about Kashmir but Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir is never part of the equation. You claim you want a plebiscite for Indian Kashmir but you would never do the same for your portion. Not only that, you chopped off Northern Areas and made it federally administered. Your hypocrisy is hilarious. Indians have no desire to come to the table with Pakistan. We're better off ignoring you because you've proven over the last 60+ years to be a nation (not people, many Pakistanis are nice but your government and military are awful, corrupt, and have no credibility) with a history of backstabbing and lying. We're focused on improving India, bringing our hundreds of millions out of poverty, and being a positive force in the world. When you can do the same, let's talk.

Ryan | 13 years ago | Reply From what the Pakis have been saying it seems they really believe they stand on an equal footing with the Indians. I guess what they havent realised is that Indians can buy them out! Not once, Not twice, but Dozens of times over. What equality are these ragtags talking about. India should learn from the US. The pakis are just mercenaries, just pay them and get your work done. This approach of India where it tries to give respect to this waste of a nation needs to come to an end. Pakistan should be dealt with fair and square. Give respect where it is due, but with Pakistan! You must be joking. No one in the Europe gives them respect, the US treats them as use and throw, it is only India which keeps giving them respect. Just discard the trash!

Bambbaayyaa | 13 years ago | Reply @ Dr Salim... If ur really a doctor ... i prey to god ... about the wellbeing of pakistani ppl ....

With love from Pakistan | 13 years ago | Reply Now I can clearly see why Mr. Manmohan singh is left isolated because of the mind set of Indians which I can clearly see in comments section posted by Indian fellows. And I saw in comment section someone said that India is taking its revenge by blocking the water supply and we all(Pakistanis) know that its true and really happening my request is to Indian govt that please do it fast so that we can solve this and other issue's ONCE FOR ALL you guy's know what im talking about With love from Pakistan ;)

Shahid Azmi | 13 years ago | Reply @Blithe: Well said! Balochis, Sindhis and Pashtoons don’t want anything to do with the Punjabistani government – they never have. There should be a plebecite, as per UN Resolutions. Let the Balochis, Sindhis and Pashtoons truly decide their fate. Punjabistan cannot keep on sequestering their rights. We are in the 21st century – India cannot continue being intransigent on a human rights issue. I am sure what you meant was this! You can thank me for the correction.

Irfan | 13 years ago | Reply For plebe-cite to happen 1.pakistan should leave kashmir and go back to pre 1948 policy 2.pakistan should ask the land it gifted to china 3.pakistan should take all people who settled down in kashmir post 1947 Then its possible to start the procedure.

Arijit Sharma | 13 years ago | Reply @Rahim: "You guys are talking if India is a haven, there is corruption in your Government, there is violence in India. Kashmir issue must be solved it is better for both countries. This is a mess left by British and it’s costing us all. This is an illiterate attitude, you to deal with a situation, avoiding will not solve the problem." The way to deal with this situation is to understand ground realities and to move on. That is the only way to solve the problem. And the attitude illiteracy is on the Pakistani side - what you have fought illegitimately for and failed to get in wars CAN NOT BE OBTAINED by discussion.

Arijit Sharma | 13 years ago | Reply @Blithe: " There should be a plebecite, as per UN Resolutions. Let the Kashmiris truly decide their fate. " Can any Pakistani tell me why you do not call for a plebiscite in the part of Kashmir under Pakistani occupation ?

XX | 13 years ago | Reply Guess he's the only guy with enough common sense - people, David Headley was a CIA agent, everyone knows it: http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=625037

Dr. Saleem Siddiqi | 13 years ago | Reply @V S S SARMA: Flying kites without thread will not solve Indians poblems. It is like you are hiding your face in the sand and saying all is well. It is not Pakistan or Pakistani writers but only INDIA and INDIA is preaching haterd since the time Pakistan was liberated in August, 1947. India has never accepted Pakistan as an entity from its core the heart. The glaring example is Indian National Anthem which says Jana man gana - - - - Sindh aur Punjab Hamaara - my foot. They are part and parcel of Pakistan and will ever remain. If India will not Liberate Kashmir, the Kashmiris will keep on fighting for their rights and inshallah one day it will be librated fom the shackles of Hindus. Why India is keeping so much force in Kashmir, just to kill innocent Kashmiries and do their genocide. If your and oher indians attitude will be like so we also dont care. We are not afraid of India and are fully capable to give a daunting reply. I seems your memory is very poor. If you go an find Internaional source of History, you will find that 1948, 1965, 1971 war was imposed on us by India and Pakistan successfully defended our part. But enough is enough. We are neuclar power now. India will never dare to attack on us as she knows tha if she will throw a stone, a big Brick will be thrown on them. So suit yourself.

Blithe | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: Well said! Kashmiris don't want anything to do with the Indian government - they never have. There should be a plebecite, as per UN Resolutions. Let the Kashmiris truly decide their fate. India cannot keep on sequestering their rights. We are in the 21st century - India cannot continue being intransigent on a human rights issue.

Ajay | 13 years ago | Reply @M. Ali Qureshi: Th ereality is much harsh. Just wishing soft image or doing PR to project soft image will not help as truth will eventually surface. Truth cannot remain hidden !

V S S SARMA | 13 years ago | Reply Pakistan has systematically cultured India hatred from childhood through its faulty text books, curriculum and interpretation of history. A careful reading of the document prepared in this regard by the Sustainable Development Policy Instritute, Islamabad, edited by A H Nayyar and Ahmed Salim brings out the way curriculum was doctored to foment hatred against India, Hindus, other religions. In 1993, Dawood Ibrahim and his henchmen created multiple bombings in Mumbai leading to deaths of 259 people and as a good neighbour Pakistan has provided passports to these criminals and provided them the shelter and protection under its ISI. Repeatedly Pakistan fought wars with India in 1948, 1965, 1971 and then the Kargil war. Pakistan continues to support about 50 terror groups on its soil and provides financial and other support to them, sending terrorists like Ajmal Kasab into India. Hatred of India nurtured by Pakistan has not affected India much but Pakistan today stands at complete destruction and isolation. Pakistan laments about Kashmir but have ceded about 800 Sq Km of Kashmiri land to China without the consent of Kashmiris. They blame India for creation of Pakistan but forget the facts that as long as they were with them, they ill-treated Bengalis of East Pakistan in all possible ways, finally their army raping a quarter million bengali women, killing 3 million bengalis and destroying Bengal. India can never trust Pakistan.

Rahim | 13 years ago | Reply You guys are talking if India is a haven, there is corruption in your Government, there is violence in India. Kashmir issue must be solved it is better for both countries. This is a mess left by British and it's costing us all. This is an illiterate attitude, you to deal with a situation, avoiding will not solve the problem.

Babloo | 13 years ago | Reply What is there to talk ? India is a status quo power, happy with its current borders, including LoC in Kashmir. India wants nothing from Pakistan, but for it to just be a civilized neighbour. Pakistan is a unhappy, revisionist power, which is not happy with its borders. In its obsesstion with Kashmir, it has lost East Pakistan, but that has not tempered its longing for Kashmir. Baluchistan is anathor East Pakistan in the making, but its Kashmir, which it does not have, that it desires, even as whatever it has, disintegrates. Have you seen a child who is crying for a certain toy that it does not have and in anger throws away or damages the toys it has ? You get my point. When the rulers of Pakistan , reach a conviction that civilized behaviour is better for Pakistan than arming , protecting and cherishing Lashker-E-Toiba, then talks between India and Pakistan will bear fruit. Till then, any talks by India with Pakistan, is counterproductive and damaging.

Arun (Mumbai) | 13 years ago | Reply I think increasing trade with Pakistan will help bring peace. We should become extremely interconnected via trade. When the common man's belly is hurt because of hostilities, the hostilities wont happen in the first place.

Roflcopter | 13 years ago | Reply @Roflcopter: And i feel sorry for Pakistan too =(

Ronit | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi Kashmir is not YOURS, the part that is under ur occupation is also considered OCCUPIED, we can solve it with Kashmiris on our side ourself and you should deal with the Kashmiris on your side...Why are you ppl wasting your limited sources on something that is not yours.

G. Din | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: Don't spell out any conditions for India to fulfill. It is not wise, serves no useful purpose and would be laughable. Just keep it in the back of your mind: India ( meaning Indian people) is in no tearing hurry to talk much less resolve any issues and we don't much care if ManMohan Singh leaves any political legacy. The self-evident adage that "you can change other things but not your neighbours" applies equally to Pakistan and therefore it serves no purpose to quote. That adage, by the way, was addressed to Indian people to convince them that conducting talks should not be opposed. Let me suggest to you that the obvious solution to the "plebiscite" dilemma is to go to UN and force it to enforce its resolution. I can tell you with some confidence that India shall never allow it. There is no real reason for it to do so. Destination UN, my friend, book your ticket!

Rohan | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: Kashmir has been part of India for 5500 years and continues to be so. The muslim inhabitants of Kashmir are not "Kashmiri". They are not 'son of the soil" but descendant of migrants from Central Asia during the last 4-5 centuries. So they cannot have any claim over the territory of Kashmir. They are free to leave if they want to be independent. There is no question of talking to Pakistan about Kashmir other than surrender of PoK. All those issues about UN and Pact are now irrelevant as they were undertaken without mandate. If Pakistan continues to interfere it could be at the cost of water supply.

prashanth | 13 years ago | Reply @Dr. Saleem Siddiqi: India can afford to wait, can Pakistan?

Irfan | 13 years ago | Reply Kashmir is integral part of india.Pakista should also hand over the land the part of kashmir which they possess to india. pakistan is not some messiah of muslims.India is better secured and safe place for all religions. Pakistan has shamed muslims all over the world with their notorious regime,corrupt govt and faked democracy!!!

Hitesh | 13 years ago | Reply @M. Ali Qureshi: India does not see any good from the talks. Most Indians are too embittered by Pakistan's behavior since 1947. With the formation of Pakistan, most Indians thought that Pakistan would move on and try to work towards it's well being. Instead, Pakistan has had a tough time coming to terms with it's own independence and like a sore loser kept wrangling about Kashmir. Your army has used the India boogeyman to serve it's interests. What does India have to gain from this relationship.

Dr. Saleem Siddiqi | 13 years ago | Reply @John: India should first stop saying "Kashmir is its atoot Ang" then we will consider that India wants to talk with its neighbour (not subordinate) with an "open mind". Charity must begin at home. The ball is in India's Court. Once an Indian leader we said that you can change other things but not your neighbours. So it is time for India to seriously ponder and resolve Kashmir Issue once and for all under the umbrella of UN who had passed a resolution for a plabecite so that will of Kashmiri people should remain supreme - what evere and where ever they want to go or want to become an independent state. Let us move forward. . . . . . . .

John | 13 years ago | Reply Sadly the cable is correct in its analysis. After Mr. Vajpai was stabbed on his back on the Kargil fiasco while he was in Lahore, all genuine interests among political leadership in India went cold, and the Pakistan's handling of Mumbai fiasco evaporated any residual hope. Mr. Singh has repeatedly stressed his view on bilateral talks, and went as far as saying "that there is no redrawing of borders". Translation of this diplomatic talk is that LOC in Kashmir is acceptable to India as her final border as it has been on both sides for the past 60 years. If PAK wants any resolution on it's border issues this is the time to settle it. Not sure if future cabinet of India politics would come as far as Mr. Singh's statement. As far as India is concerned, and she is correct in her analysis, that "normalization of relationship "with Pakistan is only in Pakistan's interest; Any benefit that India will reap from such normalization is only on "skirmishes" like in Mumbai etc., and India is approaching this end differently. Let us wait for the upcoming talk.

amit | 13 years ago | Reply dear Mr Qureshi it not India or Indians who are hell bent on proving what you have suggested, it the Pakistanis themselves who are doing this task, the Indian Govt callousness is only helping their cause

G. Din | 13 years ago | Reply It is not that Indians are against any talks with Pakistan. It is a fact though that Indians are totally against any concessions to Pakistan - on Kashmir or, for that matter, on any other issue. There has to be a give-and-take. From our past experience we have found that Pakistan talks in bad faith and is not interested in resolving prickly issues but scoring an advantage over India. India has given unilateral concessions from Lal Bahadur Shastri's time (handing back the captured territories in war that Pakistan initiated) to Indira Gandhi's time (handing over 100,000 POW's without any quid pro quo.). Further, Bhutto while signing the Shimla Pact agreed to certain future actions, on which he absolutely had no intentions to deliver and did not. As soon as those POW's were home, he began talking about eating grass and fighting with India a thousand year war! As far as ManMohan Singh is concerned, it would be futile for Pakistan to talk to him. He just cannot deliver on any thing. He doesn't have any constituency of his own. For Heaven's sake, he has not been able to even get himself elected. He is just a batman for some one else and a seat warmer for some other one. No use talking to a batman, talk to the general himself if you must. Don't talk to the horse's mouth, talk to the horse itself (in this case, more correctly the mare).. Even if Pakistan did it, it is pointless. There just isn't the support in the country for any agreement with Pakistan to survive the Parliament scrutiny!

Shahid Azmi | 13 years ago | Reply What is he going to talk with this country which has nothing but terror to talk about. India should just forget about the Pakis and carry on with its business, which it has a lot to worry about. Pakistanis are a different breed of humans. They are obsessed with playing stupid little one upmanship games and talking about petty things. This is a race that has begged all along ever since its inception. Begged Land for a country, begged for a army, begged for its resources, begged for water, begged for acceptance. If they dont get what they want they have only one solution, just send the terrorists. They are doing this in India and Afghanistan. The Indian Prime minister should understand that although he has good intentions, the success of outcomes arising from these intentions have to be measured by nature and intentions of the people he is trying to talk to. When their people do not hear to their leaders themselves, and rejoice the public murder (and i am not talking about illiterate people here, but their most educated ones) of some of their senior most leaders who advocate sanity in their otherwise Insane nation; there is no hope in talking sense with them. Only way out is build up defences, and leave them to themselves. The Americans dont want to talk to them, but are just stuck, we most certainly have nothing to gain by talking to them. Just shore up your defences, be prepared for more terrorist attacks, prepare for decisive retaliations, cold start is the way to go. This nation has been declared as a terrorist nation not once but over and over again. One can just be blinded in the hope of peace or be Sane and Rational and see the situation for what it is.

Babloo | 13 years ago | Reply Given the history of past and recent Pakistan conduct towards India including the farcical prosecution of Mumbai carnage master minds, it would take a foolish leader to engage Pakistan, expecting anything positive. Thats why, India should totally ignore Pakistan because engaging it will yield negative results and counter productive. So India should concentrate on its own security, its own issues and economy. In my opinion, India should maintain the bare minimum diplomatic relations with Pakistan and wait for the time when it sees clear indication of a change of nature of the Pak state, as compared to its past character.

Roflcopter | 13 years ago | Reply I feel sorry for Manmohan Singh

M. Ali Qureshi | 13 years ago | Reply It is sad fact that majority of Indians and their present Govt. do not want to resume peaceful and meaningful talks with Pakistan. They want to isolate Pakistan as one and only terrorist and extremist Country on earth. Unfortunately they got handsome success at this task. Our Corrupt Govt. & concern agencies did poor performance to maintain the true and soft image of Pakistan.

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