American remanded over double killing

Published: January 28, 2011
Pakistani police escort arrested US national Raymond Davis (C) to a court in Lahore. PHOTO: AFP

Pakistani police escort arrested US national Raymond Davis (C) to a court in Lahore. PHOTO: AFP

Pakistani police escort arrested US national Raymond Davis (C) to a court in Lahore. PHOTO: AFP Punjab law minister says team formed to probe into incident, investigation will be conducted in a fair manner. PHOTO: FILE

LAHORE: The US diplomat involved in gunning down two Pakistanis in Lahore appeared in court on Friday and was ordered to be held in police custody over the deaths of two men he said he killed in self defence, police said.

Raymond Davis, described by the US State Department as an American civilian working for the US consulate in the city, was being held at the Lyton Road police station in Lahore on double murder charges over the deaths of two motorcyclists. A third Pakistani was crushed to death by a consulate car that went to help Davis following the shooting in a busy street in the eastern city on Thursday.

“We produced the American in the court of magistrate Zafar Iqbal, who remanded him into police custody for six days,” senior police official Zulfiqar Hameed told AFP, adding that Davis would appear in court again on Thursday.

Police identified the gunman as Davis and said he described himself as a “technical adviser” with the consulate.

Post-mortem report

Post mortem examinations of the three victims killed in the incident — Ubaidul Rehman, Faheem and Faizan Haider — have been released.

The report states that Rehman died of heart and head trauma after he was rammed by the US consulate vehicle that arrived on the scene of the incident later on. Faheem was fatally shot by Raymond four times while Haider, who died in the hospital was shot thrice.

The post-mortem examinations were delayed overnight because of protests by family members of the deceased. Raymond Davis said he will ask the victims’ families to pardon him.

Two handguns were found close to the victims’ bodies, officers said, but police chief Aslam Tarin said they so far appeared to have no previous criminal record.

Imran Haider, the elder brother of one of the motorcyclists, said his brother only carried a pistol for protection, following the death of a third brother last month, and insisted the gun was licensed.

He said his brother was travelling home with his friend from a court hearing when the incident took place. “My brother was innocent, he was not a criminal. We need justice,” said the 34-year-old, adding that his mother had been hospitalised with a pre-existing heart condition following her son’s death.

Police officer Ahmed said another murder case had been registered against unknown foreigners in the second vehicle over the death of the third man.

The US embassy in Islamabad confirmed that Davis was a consular worker but said it was still trying to work out with the police what had happened. There was confusion over whether foreigners were allowed to carry a weapon.

Legal issues

Police in Lahore said they were seeking legal advice on the matter, while a senior lawyer in Islamabad, Ali Zafar, told AFP that special permission was required for a foreigner to be armed. A Western security official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was extremely rare for Pakistani authorities to grant weapons permits to foreigners.

“It’s a very sensitive issue here so getting a permit is virtually impossible for a foreigner. It would be extremely surprising if the American in Lahore had a permit,” he told AFP.

‘Davis will not be given VIP protocol’

Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah said that Davis will not be given VIP protocol and will be sent to jail after interrogation. He said that no one was above the law and that the Punjab government was taking action under its legislation.

Sanaullah also said that Davis seemed to have been on personal business at the time of the shooting.

“He said that he was returning from withdrawing cash from a bank and we are verifying this,” Sanaullah told a news conference in Lahore.

“Every citizen has the right of self-defence but there are several requirements for the claim of self-defence. If those requirements have been met, he can use it in court.”

He said the US consulate had agreed to release the second vehicle to police.

The minister said a team headed by the Lahore CCPO had been formed to probe the incident.

US seeks to avoid backlash from Lahore shooting

The United States said it wanted to avoid any anti-American backlash.

“We want to make sure that a tragedy like this does not affect the strategic partnership that we’re building with Pakistan,” State Department spokesman Philip Crowley told reporters.

“And we’ll work as hard as we can to explain that to the Pakistani people,” he said.

Law Minister Sanaullah also said that no US pressure would be allowed to influence the criminal case.

“We will not accept any pressure in this case. The guilty will be punished and the innocent will get justice,” he told reporters.

Davis belongs to Virginia, US and can claim diplomatic immunity in court.

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Reader Comments (80)

  • Qasim
    Jan 28, 2011 - 12:54PM

    American or another should be sentenced Capital Punishment according to pakistani law to publish our court at peak that we have system of justice .Recommend

  • Jan 28, 2011 - 1:58PM

    What if it was a self defense? I guess it would have been worst if the american would have been killed.Recommend

  • Ahmer Ali
    Jan 28, 2011 - 2:03PM

    Assalam-o-Allaikum Warahmatullah.If an innocent and sinless Dr. Aafia can be given 85 years punishment then why can these real culprits of killing innocent Pakistanis not?If USA can use its own laws for the crimes committed in USA then Pakistan must has to apply its own laws for this murder scene without any fear to punish American killers.And if Pakistani leaders are failed to do so then it clearly proves that Pakistani leadership is not free to punish any foreigner criminals or culprits involved in any crimes and in this situation Pakistani leaders don’t have any right to govern in Pakistan.Recommend

  • ahmad
    Jan 28, 2011 - 2:08PM

    he should be sentenced if found guiltyRecommend

  • Muhammad Kaisar
    Jan 28, 2011 - 2:30PM

    Nothing will happen.
    This story will complete its shelf life and everyone will forget, but we shouldn’t.
    Just imagine the reaction of american if someone would kill any american in the america.
    This is the time to show our real judicial system’s transparency to the world.Recommend

  • feroze
    Jan 28, 2011 - 2:48PM

    @qasim first lets make sure justice is dispensed to the cold blooded murderer of Salman Taseer. Then we should talk about dispensing justice to a man who claims he acted in self defense. Right or wrong the fact is the two that got shot had weapons on them. This guy was trained for such situations and reacted. If these same guys had robbed some one else and the mob had caught them they would probably have been burnt alive!

    Let the investigations be concluded and then the perpetrator be tried according to the law!Recommend

  • Farooq
    Jan 28, 2011 - 2:50PM

    Dr. Afia only pointed a gun, she did not shoot anyone. But the person under question shot motocyclists. Now lets see what justice we can do to the criminal.Recommend

  • Faisal Awan
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:02PM

    There should be no Backlash, as Americans are killing hundreds Pakistanis through Drones. If they have the right there, they have the right here as well. We Punjabis and Sindhs should be punished for our combine ignorance.

    In 80s when Russia attacked in Tribal Area, Pakistan downed there Jets, now after becoming Atomic Power we are unable to safeguard our citizens.

    Just stop there supply route, every thing will become OK in Pakistan. All the terrorist are getting Weapons either directly from USA and India through this Transit Trade or only a few snatch them from them and Use against Pakistan, as they see Pakistan working against the interest of Poor Afghans People. Recommend

  • Insider
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:04PM

    Lets trade Davis with Aafia, our Government has a good chanceRecommend

  • Tilsim
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:06PM

    It’s disgusting to see that people are jumping for the death penalty and concluding that this person is guilty of murder even though they don’t know the full facts. Murder is a pre-meditated act. Has anyone stopped to think why an American counseller would take a gun and shoot at a passer by in a pre-meditated manner? Does it make any sense? Why is noone asking about the identity of the motor cyclist and whether he had a gun? What is the identity of the motor cyclist? Is there not a war going on where Americans and many others are targets for terrorists in Pakistan? We don’t stop to think, instead our hatred and clouded thinking let’s us rush to conclusions. It becomes a matter of national honour Pakistani style. People start to condemn the man to mob justice because they hate the Americans. People, please put your feelings aside; don’t lose your humanity and hold firm to the importance of evidence and reason. Recommend

  • Zeeshan
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:13PM

    Where are all the pro veena malik and pro american LIBERALS now? and where are the mullahs now? no rallies this time? Recommend

  • Waqas
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:20PM

    It needs to be proved beyond doubt that it was not an act of self defence.

    Any sane person wud have fled the scene to avoid being bludgeoned to death by the unruly mob (remember sialkot?)

    Lets not jump to conclusions and let the justice take its course. Recommend

  • Awais
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:24PM

    Remember what the US did when Daniel Pearl was assasinated here in karachi?? Recommend

  • feroze
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:24PM

    @insider you have got to be kidding me. Why would we want that lunatic Aafia back in Pakistan? Her own husband thought she was a nut and we have enough nuts anyway!! If Davis is found to be guilty of murder/man slaughter after a fair trial then he should be punished according to our laws. Recommend

  • Ajaz
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:34PM

    there must be proper investigation and the real culprits must be brought to justice under pakistani law.

    hope our government will not be in need of SCOTLAND YARD for prob of this case.Recommend

  • Muhammad Kaisar
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:35PM

    self defense does’nt mean to kill someone until he go the fear to be killed, but as per stories of different people, nothing happened like that but that pistol near motorcycle make it suspicious.Recommend

  • mehsud
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:39PM

    The accused American should be handed over to Taliban in Waziristan over Lahore firing. He has killed two Pakistanis without the fear of death and after firing them he came out of the car and started to take footage of those soaked in their blood. This is too much he should be dealt in the powerful court of Pakistan i,e Taliban court. Recommend

  • pirzada aurang zaib
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:40PM

    guys , people working at the embassies and counsulates usually dont come in the jurisdiction of the host state. they enjoy complete immunity in regrads to crimminal and civil complains.Nothing il happen if he somehow manages to prove that he enjoys this immunity under international law regarding diplomates !
    unfortunate but pragmatic !Recommend

  • Samreen
    Jan 28, 2011 - 3:54PM

    We must value our own people. Had this been the other way round, a Pakistani shooting an American in self-defense, America would be breathing down our necks, increasing drones and God knows what. If we let this slide and let this idiot get away with it, if he is found gulity, then no one can help us because we choose not to help ourselves.

    And if it were in self defence why did he run away killing yet another innocent man? It just doesnt add up or this is once again the case of American paranoia. Recommend

  • Jahanzeb Afzal
    Jan 28, 2011 - 4:01PM

    @ INSIDER : Had you traded DAVIS with Aafia if he had killed your Brother / son / Father???Recommend

  • Fasih Ali Khan
    Jan 28, 2011 - 4:05PM

    Lets trade Davis with Aafia, our Government has a good chance
    Great ThoughtRecommend

  • Maryam
    Jan 28, 2011 - 4:24PM

    even if he did it in self defense….can anyone tell me why was he armed?Recommend

  • Arfan
    Jan 28, 2011 - 4:43PM

    Am I missing something or have the ‘liberal’ wanna-bes taken leave for this story??

    Maybe they can still fin some sort of outragous excuse for this cold blooded act of murder??!!

    Afterall, if a Pakistani, or any other follwer of Islam had committed this heinous crime, then it woudl have been termed as a Muslim Terrorist – no?Recommend

  • Historian
    Jan 28, 2011 - 5:02PM

    Dear Feroz: She is not nut, please refer her past history. Moreover, her husband only divorced her to put off American FBI pressure. It is my sincere advice you to read history first before any comments.Recommend

  • hina@london
    Jan 28, 2011 - 5:38PM

    This is what is a pre-emptive strike, can we make her American Afia Siddiqui? does this government has guts to do justice? Recommend

  • maitre
    Jan 28, 2011 - 5:38PM

    The government should never accept any official American pressure in this case and announce a verdict in accordance with his crime.Recommend

  • Ravi
    Jan 28, 2011 - 5:41PM

    @Faisal Awan:
    buddy we dont manufacture AK 47 aka klashnikovs so there is no sense in alleging that guns and ammo are sourced from india since most terrorist use AK 47 .
    For your information manufacture of AK series rifles is banned in india.Recommend

  • Z Ali
    Jan 28, 2011 - 5:44PM

    he should be punished if found guilty .Recommend

  • Wowem
    Jan 28, 2011 - 5:59PM

    Let me try and look at this unemotionally. First, Consular officials, even of the all mighty USA almost NEVER carry weapons. Second, US or any other sane consular officials almost NEVER drive their own cars, and third, consular officials almost NEVER have ordinary license plates on their cars. This leads me to believe the killer was not a diplomatic official at all. What he was in reality is left to the fertile Paki imagination: Zionist agent, Blackwater employee, CIA operative, or ‘other’ subversive.

    At any rate, his visa should establish what he really came to do…if he had a visa that is! Recommend

  • Qasim
    Jan 28, 2011 - 6:01PM

    Nothing will happen. The American will go scott-free.Recommend

  • k
    Jan 28, 2011 - 6:03PM

    Aifa is a rare top-level female Number 3 Al-Qaeda operative.I think most of the ranters are just anti-Americans rather than have any concern for Aifa.If humanitarian concern is the case,you ppl wud have protested against show-trial of Aisa bibi,that Christian women.Also wudnt have glorified extra-judicial killing of Salman Taseer.Btw,if Aifa ever gets free,she will first come back to get even with Pak Army and ISI.SOme of the evidence wrt to Aifa is so top-secret that they have no produced it in court or used it for prosecution.Pakistanis wud be truely shocked by what she is capable of,when those documents about her gets released in mean time.Recommend

  • Jan 28, 2011 - 6:16PM

    Activities of foriegners should be restricted to avoid such kind of incidents. We are already facing lot of problems. I think he was niether attacked nor threatened but he acted after seeing gun of one of the motorcyclist. May Allah save Pakistan and all Pakistanis.Recommend

  • Ali
    Jan 28, 2011 - 6:28PM


    You are absolutely right. I hate people making disgusting statements based on nothingRecommend

  • kumar
    Jan 28, 2011 - 6:53PM

    you cannot compare the two situations. Aafia was in afghanistan under american jurisdiction, and not attached to the pak consulate. If she was a foreign service officer, nothing would have happened to her.
    This person, he did kill them both, but the real question is was it or not self defence? Imagine you are travelling in a car, a couple of armed individuals pull up next to you and show you a gun. Would you show cowardice or would you fight? maybe you would do nothing. But this man is some kind of a CIA officer or affiliate, and he acted in the best way he could, assuming he had no interest in running around killing pakistanis.
    And what about taseer’s killer? The same people condemning the american are congratulating taseer’s killer.Recommend

  • Stunning..
    Jan 28, 2011 - 6:57PM

    Where is BBC and CNN when you need them..@ wowem..totally agree with you.Recommend

  • Ali
    Jan 28, 2011 - 7:18PM

    Technical Advisor LOL.

    Blackwater mission gone bad.Recommend

  • Romm
    Jan 28, 2011 - 8:05PM

    its Sad and Speaks American Mentality!Recommend

  • Aamir+Ali
    Jan 28, 2011 - 8:16PM

    The American acted in self-defense. This will blow over after a few days.Recommend

  • Sara
    Jan 28, 2011 - 8:29PM

    Y he was taking weapons along with him neways??? american or no american, there’s no justice for the civilians here…agree wid mr ali..these blackwater are now doing their acts openly n our so called patriot politicans n forces ..Recommend

  • syed shafqat
    Jan 28, 2011 - 8:53PM

    salaam. i am quit angry about the incident but, let the Court decide the things. but my opinion is that this American should be sentenced if he is guilty by two Articles. 1st by terrorism Act and secondly by Article 302 of Pakistan Penal Code. which is directly sentence to death. Recommend

  • Brum
    Jan 28, 2011 - 9:08PM

    Rumour is the two dead Pakistanis (may they rest in peace) approached the American and asked his opinion on reforming Pakistan’s blasphemy laws. The American immediately shot them dead, having been led to believe that is the correct response to such a situation in Pakistan.Recommend

  • S
    Jan 28, 2011 - 9:12PM

    Like anyone and everyone else, the diplomat deserves a fair trial. Lets not play crass politics with a serious legal matter. Three people are dead, lets not also send a potentially innocent person to prison or the gallows without a proper investigation and a fair trial.Recommend

  • sudhir
    Jan 28, 2011 - 9:51PM

    not related to this news. but here is an old sms:

    A man in USA sees a dog attacking a lady
    He kicks the dog, it dies.
    man say i m not american
    man says actually i’m Pakistani.
    Breaking News: “Muslim Terrorist Killed the innocent american Dog”Recommend

  • Parvez+Mahmud
    Jan 28, 2011 - 10:09PM

    Shooting people in the back is not self defense.Recommend

  • abdullah
    Jan 28, 2011 - 10:18PM

    he claims 2 b a member of american consulate but did not tell his exact position ….and was moving without a squad …this shows something is fishy….
    wonder what he was doing there alone and he did all this coz he was in a hurry….
    soon the real story within next 3 or 4 days will come out…Recommend

  • Ajay
    Jan 28, 2011 - 10:24PM

    The American just returning from an ATM withdrawal and the Motorcyclist with gun. It doesn’t take rocket scientist to figure out what the motorcyclists intentions might have been. Well any way we should let the the judicial facts come out. But I think this story will take its artificial course and in the end nothing will come about.Recommend

  • Humanity
    Jan 28, 2011 - 10:43PM

    The sipha-e-insaaf seems to jump to conclusions to absolve themselves of the accountability of the collective decay and rot of this nation.

    Why don’t you burn tires and set fires for the following barbaric crimes which are also reported right here under your own nose? The answer is that you are cowards and hypocrites. That is why you see fault with every one else but your own selves.

    Every one must carry an armed weapon in the country of thieve, robbers, lynchers, and rapists.

    KHANEWAL: A man chopped off his wife’s hands after she gave birth to their fourth daughter.

    ISLAMABAD: A city police constable shot a suspected carjacker who did not stop at a police checkpoint. The policeman also died later having been stabbed by the suspect in his effort to free himself.

    KARACHI: Nine suspects, who had allegedly confessed to being involved in the Shershah market carnage, were acquitted on Wednesday because of a lack of evidence and witness testimony.

    ISLAMABAD: Armed gunmen on Thursday snatched over Rs5 million from a man in sector I-8/2. Police chased the robbers but could only impound the car used in the robbery after a brief exchange of fire.

    SARGODHA: In Bhowana, a group of local landlords tortured a barber and shaved his head, eyebrows and moustache after he refused to visit a dera to cut a land lord’s hair. The barber was also forcibly paraded through streets on a donkey.

  • Sehar
    Jan 28, 2011 - 10:50PM


    Hate to break it to you, but Dr. Aafia did shoot with her gun – she didnt manage to kill anyone, just injure a US soldier.

    Secondly, true justice means dealing with this case with the facts of this case in mind. You cant sentence this American for what they’ve done to Dr. Aafia, he must be tried on whether or not he acted in self-defence or cold -blooded murder. The motorcyclists had guns on them, which is not usual for innocent citizens of Lahore either. Recommend

  • Sam
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:28PM

    Dehumanized US/CIA agents are running amok in Pakistan. Considering what is happening in Egypt and rest of the Muslim world, Pakistanis will not take this abuse and murder by US thugs for long. The US imperialism in the region has run its course. Pakistan’s corrupt puppet government needs to make an example of this arrogant murderer.Recommend

  • Zeenat Bukhari
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:37PM

    Reading some of the posters here one wonders if in Pakistan I live in a country of savages, uneducated or belligerent religious conservatives who are acting as judge, jury and want to cast dispersions on a case that no one has the real facts.
    Some religious fanatics Taliban sympathizers suggest that the accused American should be handed over to Taliban I guess in this twisted thinking is forgiving them for the Waziristan massacre. Others are trying to justify psychotic, bizarre, terror criminal Aafia as a trade off. Others want to label it as a conservative- liberal issue, its interesting how some are so fast to jump to judgment of a man who may or may not be guilty.
    The number of foreigners in Pakistan has always been limited, no one can blame them when we citizens are living in a dangerous environment where terrorists are now the fabric of our society and reading some of the comments I am afraid for my fellow country citizens.
    Maybe this is what Mr. Davis has going through is mind at this time:-
    I guess I’m guilty, ’til proven innocent
    And they will use this incident to further their anti-American bashing
    And this predicament is pure coincidence or was I defending myself
    Oh brother how they treat me will distinguish this countryRecommend

  • sohaib
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:37PM

    As he is not a diplomat, this guy is definitely Blackwater or CIA. Recommend

  • Abu Mohammed
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:45PM

    This assasin should be sentenced without any reprieve. That will show his ilk that we will not stand anyone spill our countrymen’s blood.Recommend

  • Jahanzeb Afzal
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:46PM

    Guess What?

    My sixth sense is saying that Davis will apologise from families and families will also forgive Davis but in return of a dozen American Visas!!!!

    You all people tend to forget that after all we are PAKISTANIES. The dead cannot return back, so why not try to cash this once in a life time opportunity. Its also legal in ISLAM and revenge or forgive rights are reserved with families. They can trade off between a hung Davis or Free Davis with themselves being granted citizenship of USA. Also I think its better option. We all want to see Davis having capital punishment but we are not ready to support the families of deceased. No Sunni Tehrik will sponsor Victims families. Shahbaz sharif may announce uncashable cheques for victims. NGOs may hold rallies to condemn the incidence but every thing will settles with time. Believe me Time settles every thing. Like you people can see SIALKOT Lynching incident. Supreme court is still unable to decide the matter. So my dear fellow countrymen. No Government official and/or authority can risk its status by going against USA. 100% people hate USA but 99% want USA VISAS. HYPOCRISTAN ZINDABAD,Recommend

  • Imran
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:51PM

    free this american guy, he acted in self defence, where is pakistan govt?Recommend

  • Imran
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:53PM

    all diplomats can carry weapon according to international law which pakistan also confers to, so no point of discussion on this issue..Recommend

  • Kamran
    Jan 29, 2011 - 12:42AM

    It is clear that this was in self-defense whereas the third victim’s death was manslaughter because there is no intent to kill.

    This needs to be investigated further before the families of the deceased and the general public jump to ‘capital punishment’ naraas.

    Why would a common and ordinary employee working for the US consulate want to shoot two guys in the middle of a busy Lahori street?

    then consider this…

    Why would two guys on a motorcycle armed with guns be shot by a US who just sat in his car after using a nearby ATM?

    I think the probability that they were robbers is higher than the probability that the US did it because he just could.Recommend

  • Jim Wallace
    Jan 29, 2011 - 1:56AM

    most of the english used here is outrageously horrific. why do you pakistanis spoil a language if you don’t know?Recommend

  • Ali Naqvi
    Jan 29, 2011 - 1:56AM

    Its really an eye opening incident for all Pakistanis that an American spy is wandering in the heart of the city with illegal arms, wireless set, private vehicle with fake no plate etc where are our security agencies??? (obviously i wont talk about police)…& by the way why the driver and land cruiser who hit the innocent pedestrians, while going from the wrong way on the road, have not been arrested since now..? I think our policy makers should reconsider their “Master Slave” with the Americans… Lets see the real test of our Judicial system Recommend

  • IAc
    Jan 29, 2011 - 2:16AM

    Shame on the whole pakistan media personnel who are not covering the EGYPT and Tunisia at all, what to talk of just showing the glimpses of what should be our way forward to the True Pakistanis.(Although in Pakistan’s Case all the youth will have to burn down the offices and office bearers of all the political parties.Each and every Police constables unless they join the youth and burn the police stations……………… But Alas Pakistan Does not have Mohamed ElBaradei …………………Recommend

  • IAc
    Jan 29, 2011 - 2:21AM

    Now look at us, instead of doing what Egyptians/Tunisians are doing, our media and we are seeing how an American (who very rightly) shot to HELLLLLL the Robbers.(I am 100% sure these Robber had mugged countless innocent Pakistanis.I wish this American was a Pakistani who had shot the first THUG who was born in Pakistan.( I Would salute this American, Who showed us how to stop these Thugs/robbers/thieves/dacoits)Recommend

  • LOADING...
    Jan 29, 2011 - 2:44AM had his correct name yesterday and said he was Black Ops. They also reported what was in his car.

    “Davis, driving a rented car with phony license plates, loaded with automatic weapons and advanced Israeli built surveillance gear, was heading toward Mozang Chongi, a market district in Lahore that has been the scene of terror bombings in the past, bombings local residents suspect American contractors such as Davis have had a role in.”

    Where is the online Pakistani press coverage on thisRecommend

  • URTruth
    Jan 29, 2011 - 2:57AM

    I was just informed that this accused has been in Pakistan before.

    Apparently, this guy slapped the police officer in lahore in his previous visit,
    argument was started on signal where he was stopped by the traffic police.Recommend

  • Peace On Earth
    Jan 29, 2011 - 3:10AM

    It is sad to see so many people flex there internet muscles regarding this case which hasn’t even been properly investigated.

    Put yourself in that man’s position. If someone approached you with a weapon or even at your family and you had the opportunity to defend yourselves and your family would you?

    Let’s not kid ourselves, as many people will attest to, in Karachi there are countless number of young thugs and youth who flash AK-47s and pistols while speeding past in there motorcycles without having to fear the law or anyone. Maybe the men who wanted to kill the American or rob him were these same thugs, who knows?

    It is foolish to assume that this is some sort of conspiracy between Mossad/Israel/USA/RAW or whomever. No wonder us Pakistanis are ridiculed abroad because our own people jump to conclusions and throw out random theories which have no basis.

    Give him a fair trial (although such is unlikely) but before God as our witness, give the man a fair trial and if found guilty act accordingly but don’t use him as a pawn or excuse to lash out against whatever ill will you may have against Americans.

    Pakistanis are quickly being portrayed around the world as savages. Savages who act all high and mighty and march around as if they are true Muslims but then attack innocent people such as those Christians in the north.

    How low can our countrymen stoop to? And for those who want Aifa, she is a convicted terrorist who is probably the one supporting the militants who are killing our own brothers and sisters. Remember that!Recommend

  • Beehoe
    Jan 29, 2011 - 4:00AM

    Firstly the most important thing most of you all are missing is the fact that what the American did was in Self-Defense, I am certain most of us have had or heard of stories or literally experienced gunpoint snatching. If you haven’t then there isn’t really much to say about how you feel after it.

    Lets all put ourselves in the foreigner shoes, we are in a foreign land a land we know nothing about and then something like this happens and by luck we are armed. Most of us will try to protect ourselves its a natural thing. The foreigner retaliated to what he thought was a death treat he was armed and he was not afraid to use it. Ask yourselves this question why were both the riders armed? they were not in the police force then why roam around carrying arms. According to what is said above one of the motorcyclists received a death treat to which he was carrying a gun, what do you think he would have done if the person who threatened him came up to him holding a gun? And why was the second person on the motorcycle armed, was he also given a death treat?

    The American killed just the two the third was by the vehicle that came to his rescue, that is not his fault but the fault of the person driving the SUV.

    And from news footage its quite clear that they fired first and he fired back at them, once again that is “SELF DEFENSE”. Don’t get me wrong here I am not defending the American, we all want a real and fair trial as its our right. But frankly I don’t think self defense is a crime. Sorry. Recommend

  • Robin
    Jan 29, 2011 - 4:13AM

    Free Raymond Davis NOW! He is obviously innocent. The terrorists were trying to kill him and he simply shot them in self-defenseRecommend

  • bsp
    Jan 29, 2011 - 4:24AM

    Apparently, the youth chased the American with intent to kill him. The American acted in self-defense. Otherwise, why would he get out of the car and fire his pistol? Recommend

  • Kamal
    Jan 29, 2011 - 5:17AM

    At the end of the day they will say sorry about what happened a componsation will be offered like they repaired the fire tender in Islamabad. He should be put behind bars. Put this scinario in NY or any other big city in U S A and turn the table around. WHAT WILL HAPPEN???? Muslim Terrorist. Al-Qaida operative. Why now Jew Spy. A MOSAD Agent doing servay of the city for next so called suiced bombing????????Recommend

  • Kamal
    Jan 29, 2011 - 5:28AM

    Self defence????? They were killed from the back thats what the postmortem is saying and his front wind shield have bullet marks if he was in danger or fired upon bullet marks should be on the car also, then why would he kill some one from the front winscreen. He killed them like a coward. Secondly, why another car in the backup??? Diplomatic immunity is revoked in this scinario under UN LAW. The scinario would have been difefrent if that would have been an American and world media would be shouting. Where is International Media who paints the picture around the world for terrorism. What he did is just instinct. He has served in Afghanistan and Technical Advisor. They all say that around the world when they are working for the COMPANY. They were in Vietnam also.Recommend

  • XX
    Jan 29, 2011 - 6:02AM

    I don’t know what the problem is, he just shot two dacoits of Lahore. The police even confirmed they were dacoits (they would know obviously; all the dacoits are their buddies after all). I’d say he just did us a favor by getting rid of a couple of our dacoits, heck he did for us what our police can’t/won’t.
    GRANTED – you’re not supposed to shoot people when you see they have guns and assume that they are dacoits; you’re supposed to report the suspicious activity, if you deem it such, to the police (yeah right). But if he did see their guns – I’m assuming that’s probably why he shot them – then there’s a good choice they out to dacoit the gora, and if that was the case, he had a pretty reasonable cause to shoot them in self-defense. If he saw their guns, obviously they took it out, and he obviously drove a little faster, got out of the car and shot them. That’s probably what happened and that’s what I would have done.
    BUT – of course, it was illegal after all for him to have a gun. Legally, he would need a guard. Now, if he wasn’t comfortable with a Pakistani guard – which I wouldn’t blame him for – it would make sense why he would prefer to keep a guard; I know I would’ve definitely preferred having gun myself rather than a guard if I was him. HOWEVER – knowing that keeping a gun would be illegal, if I still wouldn’t accept a guard, I simply would not have taken the assignment in Pakistan then, on grounds of fear for my life. Of course, with the way unemployment is in America these days though, I may not have had much of a choice.Recommend

  • Maulana Diesel
    Jan 29, 2011 - 6:18AM

    so let me understand something here…if i am in a car and a robber points a gun at me am i not allowed to shoot him between the eyes? Recommend

  • Jahanzeb Afzal
    Jan 29, 2011 - 6:39AM

    Guess What?

    My sixth sense is saying that Davis will apologize from families and families will also forgive Davis but in return of a dozen American Visas!!!!

    You all people tend to forget that after all we are PAKISTANIES. The dead cannot return back, so why not try to cash this once in a life time opportunity. It’s also legal in ISLAM and revenge or forgive rights are reserved with families. They can tradeoff between a hung Davis or Free Davis with themselves being granted citizenship of USA. Also I think it’s better option. We all want to see Davis having capital punishment but we are not ready to support the families of deceased. No Sunni Tehrik will sponsor Victims’ families. Shahbaz sharif may announce un-cashable cheques for victims. NGOs may hold rallies to condemn the incidence but everything will settles with time. Believe me Time settles every thing. Like you people can see SIALKOT Lynching incident. Supreme Court is still unable to decide the matter. So my dear fellow countrymen. No Government official and/or authority can risk its status by going against USA. 100% people hate USA but 99% want USA VISAS. HYPOCRISTAN ZINDABAD,Recommend

  • shah khan
    Jan 29, 2011 - 2:15PM

    I am quite dismayed on the choice of words Zeenat Bukhari has used in above post regarding Aafia Siddiqui!!
    The event of killing of two poor Pakistani young men occurred in front of a friend of mine’s eyes,who has a shop at Mazang, next to event site.. Notwithstanding what he narrates in eye witness account, I have simple question Zeenat and her like minded…
    1. why a foreigner was moving in the area of Mazang with a semi automatic gun?
    2. why was he there with suit case full of money?
    3. why did he fire with out being fired upon?
    4. why a cruising awaiting in the area to rescue him and reached the scene in no time, if he was there with out any coordinated plan?
    5. why, driver and land cruiser vehicle, who crushed the biker have not been handed over to police yet?
    6.why has Americans threatened to risk strategic dialog?
    there are many other questions, but those who wanna take blame of their masters would be vocal and just to disassociate themselves from this poor terror stricken country would talk all rubbish… I am not a proponent of talibans or any aggressor… I believe in justice and would like us all to support the poor victims untill the justice is done by the court subsequent to investigations and judicial process!!! Pakistan Zindabad, Pakistanis Paindabad!!

    Shah Khan
    son of soilRecommend

  • JustWondering
    Jan 29, 2011 - 3:45PM

    …if this has anything to do with Blackwater?Recommend

  • Zeenat Bukhari
    Jan 30, 2011 - 12:25AM

    I guess screaming “Pakistan Zindabad, Pakistanis Paindabad!!” or calling themselves “son of soil” seems to me like some trashy Lollywood line to promote publicity!
    Talk is cheap, the actions even cheaper and events in Pakistan recently has demonstrated us the breeding ground of terrorists, religious fanatics & Backwater conspiracy candidates . We reward the loons who are destroying our sacred land and punish those who are trying to advance the cause of freedom!Recommend

  • khan
    Jan 30, 2011 - 1:30AM

    every1 deserves a trial, a fair trial, and that is the Islamic way, and us being an Islamic state/muslims should abide by that rule. and till such time as any proof against/for Mr.davis we shudnt jump to any conclusions!!
    but still an interresting point from the post-mortem report : the 2 supposed bandits(they also deserve the benefit of the doubt rite now aswell b4 being proved as bandits) were shot 4 and 3 times each!! 7 bullets in all!! Davis had time enough to fire 7 bullets in succession for self defence, at 2guys who were supposedly trying to rob him or kill him , without them firing a single bullet?? Recommend

  • Shumayl
    Jan 30, 2011 - 6:38AM

    If it is proved that Davis is a diplomat then in that case he gets immunity from prosecution under the Diplomatic Immunity Act 1972.Recommend

  • Ahmer Ali
    Jan 31, 2011 - 11:37AM

    If this incident happens in USA by a Pakistani then what will be your attitude on it?Dr. Aafia an innocent and sinless is given 85 years imprisonment in USA what about her?Recommend

  • Jan 31, 2011 - 3:39PM

    If this man has to be freed (which shouldn’t be), then we want Ms. Aafia Siddique in return.Recommend

  • khalid mahmood
    Feb 1, 2011 - 3:38AM

    Assalam-o-Allaikum Warahmatullah.If an innocent and sinless Dr. Aafia can be given 85 years punishment then why can these real culprits of killing innocent Pakistanis not?If USA can use its own laws for the crimes committed in USA then Pakistan must has to apply its own laws for this murder scene without any fear to punish American killers.And if Pakistani leaders are failed to do so then it clearly proves that Pakistani leadership is not free to punish any foreigner criminals or culprits involved in any crimes and in this situation Pakistani leaders don’t have any right to govern in Pakistan Recommend

  • Ahsan Ahmed
    Feb 4, 2011 - 4:31AM

    I just wonder sometimes how we say Aafia is sinless and innocent when a court of law found her guilty.

    I guess its the same way as we call this American guilty even though he isnt proven guilty, and everyones innocent until proven guilty.

    We live in opposite landRecommend

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