Pakistan

China to deliver 50 more JF-17 Thunder jets to Pakistan

According to the contract, Pakistan will receive a total of 110 JF-17 Thunder aircrafts from China

Web Desk April 25, 2015

As a symbol of friendship, Pakistan will receive a total of 110 JF-17 Thunder aircrafts from China. PHOTO: AFP

China will deliver another fifty JF-17 Thunder fighters to Pakistan over a period of three years, Radio Pakistan reported.

The Head of Chinese Aircraft Industry told a Chinese daily that under the contract signed between the two countries, Pakistan will receive a total of 110 JF-17 Thunder aircrafts from China.

Read:India not threatened by Pakistan-China economic corridor: envoy

The jets are a symbol of friendship between Pakistan and China. During Chinese President Xi Jinping's visit, a fleet of eight JF-17 Thunder jets escorted the special plane of the Chinese leader when it entered Pakistan’s airspace.

Read: Trade corridor tops Chinese investment bonanza

Pakistan and China on April 20 signed more than 50 agreements worth $28 billion, mostly covering commercial loans to Pakistani power generation companies, but also including financing agreements for six infrastructure projects that will set in motion work on the eastern trade corridor connecting western China with Gwadar that Beijing wants to see operational before the end of next year.

COMMENTS (73)

Ussamah | 8 years ago | Reply http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-faces-severe-ammunition-shortage-can-fight-war-for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms "As for Tejas, the CAG held the fighter was "dependent on foreign sources" for important components such as engine, multi-mode radar, radome, flight control system actuators, multi-functional display system and the like. Moreover, Tejas Mark-I is "deficient" in electronic warfare capabilities as the self-protection jammer could not be fitted on it due to space constraints. "The radar warning receivers/counter-measure dispensing systems fitted on the aircraft are also having performance issues," it said. The Tejas Mark-II, with more powerful engines and weight reduction, which is what the IAF wants, is still on the drawing board. As of now, the fighter cannot fire BVR (beyond-visual range) missiles or drop laser-guided bombs, nor is capable of undergoing mid-air refueling. It, hopefully, will be able to do so when the Mark-I gets its final operational clearance (FOC) by December 2015. "IAF would be constrained to use Mark-I, which has reduced survivability, lower performance, lower range and endurance, reduced pilot protection, reduced operational capability and reduced weapon accuracy," it said."

Ussamah | 8 years ago | Reply @Dan, Still think Tejas is your pride? How indigenous is this aircraft? And you were calling us out for relying on Chinese aircraft? http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-faces-severe-ammunition-shortage-can-fight-war-for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms "On Friday, it was made official by the Comptroller and Auditor General of India. In reports tabled in Parliament, the audit watchdog attacked the Tejas Mark-I jet for being just about 35% indigenous and falling short on as many as 53 technical requirements, greatly reducing its capabilities and survivability in combat."

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Rao | 8 years ago | Reply @Dan: Here many readers, throw in the words like 3rd , 4th generation fighters. No body seems to know which factors make a 5th from 4th generation planes!

JSM | 8 years ago | Reply @Ussamah: Media foes not decide trade policy in India. Government of India decides it. Today, India has digned agreement with Iran for Chhabahar port development and usage.

Ussamah | 8 years ago | Reply @Rao, I can say the same thing about your PM: Modi, who after one meeting with Obama was projecting an image as if Obama is his childhood buddy. The same man who was once banned from entry in US by US State Dept. for human rights violations. So please show some self respect and at least ask State Dept. why your current PM was once branded as a murderer by U.S State Dept. Just an FYI..Chinese media has frequently referred to China Pakistan as all weather friends. Problem is that you Indians thought that Pakistan is completely isolated and will never be able to overcome its problems. You could not imagine in your wildest dreams that China would invest this much money in Pakistan. To the extent that now Indian media is demanding that China should force Pakistan to give India access to the Economic corridor (which I hope Pakistan does as it will be beneficial for sub continent). Sorry, but your dream of annihilating Pakistan will remain a dream.

Rao | 8 years ago | Reply @Pakistani: My dear friend: one of your leaders not long ago were telling that relationship between Pakistan and China is, " ..higher than the mountains, deeper than ocean an sweeter than honey.."!! I think It was Mr. Zardari! This is a such flattery that was practised in all Nawab style courts from Mughul Durbar for centuries. Boy Chinese must be impressed by these antics. Where would you stop? Will you go on your all fours next time? Kow tow in front of Chinese brothers! One has to show some self respect, you know. ,

Abeer | 8 years ago | Reply Leave it to the professionals the capabilities of JF 17 thunder. Let's face it USA and India tried to humiliate Pakistan and tried to weaken it's defence but China helped Pakistan and still helping with all its defence needs. Chinese are real friends of Pakistan. And all these comments shows the depressed Indian and American minds mourning on the failure of their plan to destabilise Pakistan and it's defence. Shame India and America

Ussamah | 8 years ago | Reply Dan, Which world do you live in? Sukhoi is being made in HAL? For gods sake, even you own news papers confirmed the details of technology transfer. Why in the world would any Western country or Russia just gift you the secret of their aircraft? There is never A TRUE TECHNOLOGY transfer. India does not make the spares of engines of SU30. These components are still made in Russia. Why would Russia give up on billions in revenues on service, training etc.? Even engine overhaul and repairs for these aircraft are done in Russia according to your media. FYI, JF17 is a 4th Gen aircraft, please review Janes Defence Weekly; Tejas are your pride? When this aircraft is operational, and considered by IAF worthy enough to be inducted in a squadron, please then call it your pride. A plane that has repeatedly failed flight tests, has had engine issues cannot be called pride. FYI..JF17 is serving in operations in North West and has proven capability and has a Block 2 variant out already.

Hamza | 8 years ago | Reply My God!! Public is so naive. Pakistan was supposed to co-produce JF 17s here in Pakistan with the help of China in PAC Kamra. You should be asking questions as ti why we are getting them and not producing them ourselves. PAC Kamra is the 7th largest Aeronautical complex in world and the yearly profit is NEGATIVE!!!!

Sonam Shyam | 8 years ago | Reply Well Mr.Mahammad, I had already asked you to discuss facts sans rancour but you didn't heed to my sensible advice. Now your contention that Russia promoted Indian space programme to avoid India falling in to US lap is laughable considering the anti US sentiment which prevailed for decades in India. As far as our space programme is concerned, it's success has been acknowledged all over the world. We have launched not just our own satellites but also of international customers and we are now a serious player in launching satellites in medium category while we are still in the process of successfully developing tech to launch heavy satellites on the GSLV platform. As far as our Mars mission is concerned, the whole world including China showered fulsome praise on our achievement. Not even USA, Russia, EU and China managed to successfully launch Mars mission in their first attempt and China still hasn't reached Mars. My advice to all Pakistanis is to please discuss sensibly and refrain from making arguments without facts.

Awi Ahmad | 8 years ago | Reply OMG, i have never seen such retarded people in my whole life that i have seen on just this single page, crying that JF17 is junk, and is 2 number maal, and so and so. Do you ignorant crying retards know that who designed JF17? who designed it first? and then who took responsibility to redesign it? do you even know one single fact? JF17 is the proof of Pakistan engineering expertise. When Pakistan joined China for the development of JF17, at that time around 1997 Pakistani engineers rejected all the blue prints of JF17 and started on to the project from scratch. Just so you know, Pakistan didn't have to build the engine, nav or radar or anything that's already in market, rest of the stuff was what Pakistan does the best, years of overhauling experience of F16 gave Pakistani engineers so much expertise on this plan that no one in the wold has. stop crying you idiots, and contribute something good to the country. No one needs your crying ignorant comments. Just for your info, China kept asking Pakistan from 1993 to 1997 to join the program but Pakistan was looking for F16. The moment Pakistan stopped it's own development, USA will stop giving Pakistan anything, it's a harsh truth your fat brain won't understand.

Muhammad | 8 years ago | Reply @Sonam Shyam: If you continue with your cry about Pakistan and now China you are likely to have a seizure. Just calm down or have some sedation. Mention of the so called Indian space flight was to point out that you can not make a space probe on your own when you do not have the brains to build your own jet fighter in decades. You do not need any exceptional intellect to understand what I was getting at. As I have mentioned in my previous comment your satellite launch facility was built by the Russians to prevent you completely falling into the US lap. And America has always been throwing space scrapes to keep you on its side. So well done India for playing with these opposing powers. One breaks into a never ending laughter when you mention your assistance to NASA in your moon mission. Come on do not keep youself in fool's world.

Sonam Shyam | 8 years ago | Reply Let me clear delusion of the above quoted Mr.Mohammed. So you are amazed as to how India could send a Mars mission but is unable to make a jet fighter. Pray Sir what has a jet fighter to do with Mars mission? They are two separate things. We have failed to manufacture a jet engine but even your all weather friend China has also failed to make one. Even in your made in Pakistan JF 17, the outdated heavy smoking RD-33 engine is made in Russia. Even China relies on Russian tech for its cutting edge variants of Sukhoi jets; yes the same jets which some Pakistanis are foolishly ridiculing. These Russian made Chinese Sukhois are the backbone of PLAAF and they have more than 400 of them. Finally you are ridiculing India for asking help from NASA to track the Mars orbiter which actually reveals your ignorance. Space agencies of friendly countries do use each other assets to track missions and share information. Even NASA used Indian Moon missions information to establish presence of water there. Please try to cut the rancour and see the truth.

Sonam Shyam | 8 years ago | Reply So Mr.Bobb your delusion continues unabated. Would you please name the 5 frontline IAF jets you guys shot down? Frankly we in India would be pretty satisfied if you nuke your own Punjabi territory in the process of wiping out our armoured columns since Indian nuclear doctrine does not differentiate between battlefield or other strategic nukes; hence we will retaliate massively. As far as Clinton's mediation is concerned, it was a scared Gen Musharraf who sent a panicky Nawaz Sharif to US to prevent rout of Pak army and that too on the American independence day. And by the way if jihadis are killing innocents to free Kashmir then what are the Talibani jihadis trying to achieve by killing innocent school children in Peshawar? Keep differentiating between good and bad jihadis and keep paying the price. Lastly I would remind you of what noted South Asian expert Stephen Cohen said which is as follows,'Pakistani army is the finest army in the world which has not won a war'. That my friend is the reality.

Muhammad | 8 years ago | Reply @Dan: "Assembling" an aircraft or "rebuilding" both rely on external technology as opposed to a country's own make. One is amazed that people like you do not feel the slightest bit of reluctance when they mention Tejaz fighter plane. It has taken decades to prepare this "fly" even when all of its crucial components including the very engine were an imported stuff. All your factory had to do was to design and build a frame to give it Indian ID. And no one knows its capability and whether this too is going to prove to be a widow-maker. We are also talking here of capability of conceiving, implementing and producing something all using own science. I have to say your country has the habit of hyping and boasting on something as being the product of your own science. The example is the launching of a MARS mission taking only one year to complete even though your projects like Tejaz took decades to complete - sort of complete! The fact is that most of the Mars probe's elements were, one way or the other, imported and the probe had required tacking through out its flight by NASA. And your scientists must have told you that your launch facility was installed with Russian assistance. Have a good day.

Muhammad | 8 years ago | Reply @woody: It does make sense to buy in a ready to fly condition to meet immediate needs. Long term Pakistan does have the licence to build JF17 (with possibly necessary modifications) using its own facility. As you pointed out there may well be some change in plans particularly following signing of the well publicised Economic Corridor by the Chinese. There seems no end to bad news for India!

Bobb Mack | 8 years ago | Reply @Sonam Shyam: Pakistani columnists you are referring to are no different from some of your own writers who write quite shameful things about their own country. I would suggest you watch what a former US president Mr Clinton in a video on YouTube had to say about Kargil.. BTW do you know that 5 of Indian air forces' top range fighter planes were shot down with in the first 2 days as soon as they flew over the LOC? As for your reference to nuclear blackmail that is all in your mind. Pakistan had to acquire nuke capability to prevent your country from taking any further PUNGA ( oops-excuse my French!) with us and it has not only worked effectively it has left your defenders unsettled for ever. You have raised a valid point that if Pakistan are a superior martial race they should prove that in the battlefield except your lack of knowledge about the modern warfare. I expect a person of average intelligence to know that fighting wars using swords and elephants is no longer relevant and that a country will deploy strategies that are appropriate and best suited for a given situation. Currently according to my reckoning enemy soldiers will be wiped out as soon as they inch into Pakistani territory and that would make sense rather than risking casualties, avoiding bombs raining over cities. As far your pointing to jihadis they are no longer used by Pakistan, they are doing jihad because of Indian subjugation of Kashmiris. I personally believe in peaceful resolution of India-Pak issues.

Bobb Mack | 8 years ago | Reply @JSM: Since your Independence you have never allowed to free yourself from your Pakistan obsession. There is no doubt that we have had several combats with India, largely because of your intransigence and stubborn stand on the issues that we both inherited. Undoubtedly being several fold more resourceful India did not budge but with the passage of time our shortcomings have only led Pakistan emerge as formidable nation with defence parity with your Bollywood driven and Pakora selling nation. That has kept India from Pakistan borders even when it has been, according to your own leaders, left chronically haemorrhaging for decades.

Kushal | 8 years ago | Reply Great news, Pakistan. Now you have something to play with, say, Bangladesh or for that matter Maldives. As Indians we will enjoy the showdown.

Indian Observer | 8 years ago | Reply JF 17 is obsolete and please dont get worked up, but its real abbreviation is Junk Fighter 17 . Its good just for showing the numbers that's why the Chinese dont want to touch it, and happily made it for pakistan , like they make junk electronics and plastic products for the rest of the world. The expensive and good quality stuff from China is expensive and very seldom given to the rest of the world. I don't think the J10s will be a huge success and it remains to be seen whether China will share that with Pak. So quit commenting on what you don't have.

JSM | 8 years ago | Reply @Bobb Mack: You can claim a victory when your objectives on ground are achieved. Tell me in which of the 4 wars with India, Pakistan achieved the intended objectives?

Sonam Shyam | 8 years ago | Reply Well Mr.Bobb, all I can say again that Pakistan perhaps is the most propagandist nation in the world where even educated people live in delusion as your comments have revealed. The prime example of your brainwash is the point that American intervention led to ceasefire in Kargil. My advice is to please google the writings of Pakistanis like Ayaz Amir, Najam Sethi etc and also read an account by former PAF officer Kaiser Tufail, which will give you a clear picture of your myth of martial superiority. Another propaganda of your establishment is that India is itching to swallow Pakistan but because of superior martial skills of Pakistani military, India is kept at bay. But you people never ask pertinent questions like as to why your fauj promotes jihadi assets to fight a war which the fauj itself should fight? Why develop a concept of strategic depth in Afghanistan if your fauj is so martially superior? Why threaten a nuclear war at the drop of a hat when you are so martially superior? Why develop tactical nuclear weapons if your fauj is not scared of an Indian armoured thrust in Pakistan? The point I am trying to make is that Pakistani awaam should develop a culture of questioning the established norms or else false bravado leads to embarassing defeats in the battlefield.

usman777 | 8 years ago | Reply Let's say your Hindustan Motors Amabassador Mark I model can take down JF-17. This is good news right? why are you complaining? you should be happy. No reason for chinta

Dan | 8 years ago | Reply JF 17s are not made in Pakistan, they are just assembled, on the other hand India is manufacturing Sukhoi mki 30s at HAL in Bangalore under license from Sukhoi. Check wiki for proof. And Su30 mkis are far far superior than jf 17s, even superior than PAF's best fighter jet The F 16s. And some of my Pakistani friends are criticising HAL' s LCA Tejas. FYI Tejas fighters are 4th Gen aircrafts which is developed by India. Its India's own fighter plane and its a potent one. Tejas will replace IAF's Mig 21 squadrons in time Yes, Tejas cost India many years but it is India's pride. Atleast we have the capacity to produce an aircraft of our own. Fighters are complex to design and built, so it took time, but what a beauty it is. Atleast we dont claim like Pakistan that an aircraft that is just assembled in the country as our own product..JF 17s were designed & developed by the Chinese for PAF depending on their requirements. And HAL, Bangalore is manufacturing an aircraft of Su 30 mkis quality without Russia's help nowadays. All parts are developed at HAL. Thanks to Transfer of Technology from Russia. Pakistan still has a lot of catching up to do. Now, recently( an year ago ) India & Russia had signed an agreement where HAL & Sukhoi have already started working on developing a 5th Gen fighter aircraft. The design is already near completion. I hope my comment gets posted. Its a clean comment. Thanks!

woody | 8 years ago | Reply Pakistan already purchased the right to build these planes - spend enormous sums setting up production facilities - announced to the World it was going to build and sell these planes overseas ...... and now your buying 110 of them from China. This doesn't make much sense to me. Does this signal a shift in Pakistan policy?

Bobb Mack | 8 years ago | Reply @Sonam Shyam: It is the martial superiority which has enabled Pakistan to keep India, a country at least 7 times larger and far better resourced, on its toes. Your military planners know that! The only combat which India can claim to have subdued Pakistan Army related to Bangladesh Liberation. But had it not been a campaign facilitated by Mukti Bahini and fought 1000 miles away from West Pakistan the end result could have been different. However Pak Army learnt from its short comings in the decades that followed. Even to the peril of its economy it was able to develop an effective deterrence against its enemies. Never again any army has taken on Pak Army as a result. Indian often mention Kargil without telling that Indian Air Force lost 5 state-of- art fighter jets in the first 24 hours as soon as they came near the LOC. This campaign, as opposed to Indian propaganda, ended actually with American intervention when the parties agreed on ceasefire and passage for Pak soldiers and Kashmiri Mujahids to withdraw. India suffered 3 times more casualties. Hope there will be no full war again. Should there be an other confrontation Pakistan will come out with its traditional martial superiority with much ease this time. Depth of enemy territory, as you mentioned, will become irrelevant given Pakistan's defence assets. So our martial superiority will remain a reality ... not a myth!

Ibrar | 8 years ago | Reply @roma: I know how you feel and trying to get at. You should also know that India's intransigence against Pakistan ever since Partition, including its collaboration with Mukti Bahini which led to Pakistan's dismemberment, has continued to widen gulf between the two. The Economic Corridor being built through Pakistan is undoubtedly going to assist China to achieve its regional and global objectives while bringing economic prosperity for Pakistan. India too can expect closer relations and benefit from transit routes to central Asia and beyond if it can agree to resolve its bilateral issues with Pakistan. Sadly India, rather foolishly, has chosen to push Pakistan away to enhance its collaboration with China and obviously it (India) can now only watch the consequences. You are justified in assuming that the road Chinese are building through Pakistan will be used by China like their own property but India's real concern I think relates to being encircled by the Chinese rather than the latter occupying Pakistan.

Ibrar | 8 years ago | Reply @harsh: It would be naïve and unfair to expect China to get bogged down in Indo-Pak issues when it is working and rising to be a world power. It will also not serve any purpose for China to adopt a strong rhetoric against India when it can enjoy the advantage of trade benefits. That said, China's actions and practical approach with in SA should leave no doubt that it favours Pakistan over India in lots of ways. One can see that from India's obsession with Pak-China enhancing strategic ties.

Sajid | 8 years ago | Reply Salute to all Muslim fellows here who answered very wisely to all the negativism.

Sajid | 8 years ago | Reply @realitycheck: Thanks for the info

Sajid | 8 years ago | Reply @Ussmaah: Great answer to our enemies.

Sajid | 8 years ago | Reply @weird: Well said

Sajid | 8 years ago | Reply @Muhammad Shoaib: Good answer

Engineer | 8 years ago | Reply Man, you Pakistanis are delusional lot. Having pride is one thing and being factual is another. You would even say JF-17 can even counter F-22 Stealth fighter, the most advanced in the world right now. You guys enlighten yourself and study little bit before jumping into defend blindly.

Zaffar | 8 years ago | Reply what kind of deal is this? doesn't Pakistan manufacture these jets in Pakistan? I heard it is a joint project, then why it is touted as China will give? Confusing Relationships...

Pravin | 8 years ago | Reply I think its high time the name of country should be changed to Islamic Republic of China. Good to see BROTHERLY relations between Believers and Atheists.

Ring Ma | 8 years ago | Reply @Aschraful Makhlooq: We used to give Junks to Terrorist so that they cannot attack us back like what they did to US

Cosmo | 8 years ago | Reply I thought jf17 is Pakistans own fighter plane!!. How come it is then being imported from china. Haa haa funny !

Sonam Shyam | 8 years ago | Reply The problem with any discussions with Pakistanis is their myth of martial superiority and their so called 'better equipment' doesn't allow any sensible discussion. From the Patton tanks to JF 17's to now the surface to air missiles etc. Pakistanis shouldn't forget what happened in all the wars they fought with their superior arsenal and I need not elaborate. Since India is a democracy where the Parliament is informed about defense preparedness therefore what is the serviceabilty of Sukhois is known to the world. Does any one know the serviceability of Pakistani aircrafts which of course would be a state secret. Finally no one wants war and no war would happen if Pakistanis keep their jihadi assets on a tight leash but if war happens remember that besides all the military muscle and war doctrines, country with deeper pockets will win the day.

Jawad | 8 years ago | Reply If instead we get some commercial planes for our PIA

realitycheck | 8 years ago | Reply I think the report is flawed and probably incorrect. As the agreement signed is likely for 50 JF-17 block-3 MR fighters as we already have 50 block-2s in production at Kamra.

The first Block 2 JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft made its maiden flight from the Pakistan Aeronautical Company (PAC) facility at Kamra on 9 February. The aircraft (serial number 2P01) made three more successful flights before being taken to the paint shop in mid-February. The test flights came as a boost as PAC continues to look for a first export customer for its platform. Air Commodore Ahsan Rafiq, Deputy Chief Project Director (Operations) JF-17 and a former commanding officer of the JF-17 Test and Evaluation Unit, described the Block 2 version as "an upgraded Block 1 with an air-to-air refuelling (AAR) probe, enhanced oxygen system [to allow the pilot to stay in the air longer], and improved electronic countermeasures system (ECS)". The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has a contract for 50 Block 2 JF-17s but as Air Cdre Ahsan pointed out, "the full AAR system will not appear until the 29th jet, which should fly later this year [at Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) in China]." In a further development that sends a clear signal that PAC and Chinese marketing partner CATIC intend business in the international arena, the Block 2 JF-17 will also have a two-seater version, which is now being developed at Chengdu according to the PAF's requirements. "We know potential customers would like to see a two-seater, although it is not such a big deal for the PAF, which started flying several types, [A-5, F-6, F-7P and F-7PG] without a training version," Air Cdre Ahsan said. "This will give us the chance to show potential suitors how the jet can perform in the air."

As mentioned on: http://www.janes.com/article/49991/block-2-jf-17-makes-first-flight-ahead-of-block-3-improvements

Ussmaah | 8 years ago | Reply To all Indians as to why Chinese are not using JF17. Here is why, because the plane was made to suit PAF's requirements, thats why, get it? The jets are not meant to counter Sukhoi, may be when the Block 3 is released it might be able to. This jet gives us a lot of flexibility as we can modify it unlike F16s to suit our requirements; second it will replace our old fleet of F7s and Mirage and we are not dependent on Western countries for spares and will have a top aircraft to serve as the backbone of PAF. Compare this to your LCA which has been bogged by years of delay and to the extent that it is still not in service and there no signs that it will be in near future. Compare that to JF17, which is not only in our fleet, but is also serving in operations in North West and is also being marketed for export and we have already released Block 2 version with air to air refueling capability. So considering the problems we are facing, not a bad job at all by PAF and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. According to Times of India, recently, many SU30s were grounded because of faults and at any time only 55% of the 200 or so SU30s are serviceable. This was the main reason why India was so desperate to get the Rafale aircraft even though France refused to do technology transfer. So please enjoy your Russian junk and flying coffins. Our Chinese junk works and doesnt crash and we might even be able to make some money out of exporting this air craft.

Rex Major | 8 years ago | Reply @ Salman: "@Sonam Shyam: When I read idiotic comments of Indians like you it just brings a smile on my face especially when they compare JF17 with Su30. For you information, these JF17s will replace our aging F7s and Mirages while we have F16s to counter your Russian junk Su30." ... so let us see, assuming a conflict between India and Pakistan where a PAF J17 has to engage a Su30, or a Rafael or a Mirage of the IAF. Will the PAF J17pilot show the IAF guy a notice: no, no wait, an F16 will come and engage with you - I am only responsible for as you say "Teja, Mirage and flying coffin Mig 21" Some bright comment!

Rex Major | 8 years ago | Reply @Engineer: "@Rex major , if you know something about fighter planes, then talk. ..." Are you sure your rant is directed towards the right person? Did you read what I had written - and did you understand it? BTW - just because you call your self an engineer does make you an expert on Air force and aviation. What do you want to talk about, the thrust of the turbines? The avionics? The BVR weaponry? Better still learn to read and comprehend. My mail was addressed to Gemini and the other stuff is his statement as quote in quotation marks.

Just sayin | 8 years ago | Reply @roma: They have already been given Gwadar port for 40 years !!

shumayel | 8 years ago | Reply @Engineer: the availability rate of the pathetic su30 mki is 50%. Meaning that half of the fleet is grounded at all times for maintenance.

Pakistani | 8 years ago | Reply Thank you China. We are not only true friends but also brothers.

kamal | 8 years ago | Reply @Engineer: Let me enlighten you my 'friend'. Forget the SU30, 35, 45, et al. Worry about the AMRAAM AIM-120D that we have. With these stand-off missiles even 1 F-16 will track, target and shoot down 6 SU30 at 100 km. The same missiles are installed on the latest USAF F-22 Raptors. Be afraid, very afraid. And do you homework before you troll. And now upto 4 AIM-120Ds can also be fitted on JF-17. So your SUxx can track the AIM all the way from 100km to explosion. LOL

weird | 8 years ago | Reply @Engineer: The answer is very simple. The war was ignited by a delusional disappointment and a failed planner called Musharraf and his cronies. Putting PAF in the mix would have caused an all-out war along the border. Besides, recall, we said that it were all Mujahids. Had PAF taken its role, it would have given your over-supplied planes a very good spanking though, over/in/around the mountains. In those areas, its manoeuvrability that counts.

Muhammad Shoaib | 8 years ago | Reply @Wajahat: Firstly please remind this Engineer that SU-30 is a bigger platform which can be easily sucked up by J-17 Thunder in close combat as well as in medium range combat and secondly this SU-30 huge fighter cum commercial aircraft requires a bigger hangar with doors at both sides i.e. double door hangar and hence Pakistani SSMs (surface to surface missiles) will easily take them out on ground; please always include the Pakistani surface to surface missiles in Pak-Indo military balance which are far more superior to the Indian missiles of same kind. We don't want war with India but in next war Pakistani SSMs will be raining on Indian air bases making it difficult for SU-30 MKIs and other Indian imported aircraft to even take off rather taxi out of their huge hangars. Pakistan must strive to obtain J-10, J-11 and Chinese stealth fighters J-20 sooner than later.

rak | 8 years ago | Reply fights here are akin to dogfights in air, how much ever people might give importance to military but days of military conflict between india and pakistan are long gone. There would be only proxy war or a full fledged nuclear war(still very very unlikely). India is pulling ahead of pakistan the best dogfight that will serve pakistan its good would be to fight it out on economic front.

salman | 8 years ago | Reply @Sonam Shyam: When I read idiotic comments of Indians like you it just brings a smile on my face especially when they compare JF17 with Su30. For you information, these JF17s will replace our aging F7s and Mirages while we have F16s to counter your Russian junk Su30. Indian too working on Teja project for the last 30 years without any success and to cut down HAL embarrassmen, IAF has finally agreed to incorporate Tejas if the prototype clear the final test in Dec. Our JF17 will knock down your Teja, Mirage and the flying coffin Mig 21 any given day.

Engineer | 8 years ago | Reply @Rex major , if you know something about fighter planes, then talk. Provide some facts why JF-17 is better than SU-30MKI. Don't blabber without any knowledge of Fighter planes. Pakistanis are only obsessed about how many planes you shot down in 1 minute and 2 minutes. Guess what, air force is not there to create records or even for that matter how many planes it can shoot down. The Objective of an air force is to fulfill the mission they have been handed. In 1999, Indian air force was given the mission to destroy ground positions of Pakistani army, and they did. They also at the same time kept PAF at bay. If your air force or pilots are so superior, what prevented them from using their skills in 1999?

Jalal | 8 years ago | Reply @Rao:

These planes are free gifts and does not cost a single paisa to the tax payer.

Where did you get this misinformation from? Chiense are not stupid, paindoos on this side of the border are.

imran | 8 years ago | Reply Thank you China. These negative comments ate from jealous Indians.

JD | 8 years ago | Reply To all of you who believe that JF-17 is junk compared to the contemporaries of rival countries. Wasn't it the same case with Sabre vs MIGs?

Engineer | 8 years ago | Reply @Wajahat F-16s at best can give a fight to MKI but can't it bring down given some insane maneuvers it is capable of. There are no J-10s, no point in talking about something which you don't have.

Rex Major | 8 years ago | Reply @ The Editors: China to deliver 50 more JF-17 Thunder jets to Pakistan See Dawn of 7.Dec.2014 :With new JF-17, Pakistan aims for boost to defence exports http://www.dawn.com/news/1149351/with-new-jf-17-pakistan-aims-for-boost-to-defence-exports ... and I am just wondering, how can you export what you don't even make? Moderators - why did my earlier note on this topic, as innocuous as this one, not see the light of the day? What is abusive or obnoxious in this?

Wajahat | 8 years ago | Reply @Sonam Shyam: You are right. They are multi-role fighters. But Pakistan is inducting these primarily as a back-up fleet and considering its cost and capabilities, it is a very good option. Secondly, since it is a joint venture by Pakistan and China, we have the luxury to do whatever we want to do with it. There a re no restrictions whatsoever. This can be ascertained from the fact that from day 1 there has been modifications to suit the needs of the PAF after doing testings and all and it would continue to be that way. And you don't have to compare it with Sukhois, Migs, Rafaels and Saab Gripens. It is a low cost but very capable machine and only Pakistan knows the formation and manner in which to employ it.

Rex Major | 8 years ago | Reply @Gemini "@Engineer: It’s not about planes everytime, sometime it’s guts from a pilot and willingness of doing everything right and passion for their country." ... and of course you are insinuating "1 Muslim soldier is equal to 10 or maybe 50 0r 100 Hindu soldiers" Which obviously was seen in '65, '71 and Kargil. Don't come up with how many Hunters were shot by the PAF etc..

roma | 8 years ago | Reply ....just what do they want in return ? The proposed aid is massive and it cannot but change the situation in pakistan . Just that someone below said that it isa give and take situation .... that i feel is a given. All collaborations are based on a foundation of give and take . even between husband and wife - otherwise the marriage has a great chance of breaking up . china is giving a lot to pakistan - now what could they be wanting in return ? not money, by my reckoning , because they can make a lot of that by other methods and much safer too . No what they are ging for is mainly of military significance - rather want their road running through Pakistan - and they will NEVER give that up . It is their property and n one an remove them - not even the government ., people nor military forces of pakistan . They are there to stay forever ..... all-weather friends indeed ! ....they have just bought the country

Sonam Shyam | 8 years ago | Reply To all Pakistanis like the above quoted Mr.Wajahat I would like to remind them that nowhere the PAF says that its JF 17 is only a ground attack aircraft; even the Wikepedia says that JF 17 is a multi role fighter which means it can perform air superiority role. So why now its only being projected an a ground attack fighter? Even to perform ground attacks JF 17 would require close air support from F 16s which won't be easy with IAF Sukhois, Mig 29's and Mirages in the vicinity. Pakistanis should ask themselves about the real capabilities of JF 17s since even Chinese don't use it. Its good for PAF to fill numbers but they would have been much better off had they bought SAAB Gripen jets from Sweden instead of Chinese rejected JF 17s.

Gemini | 8 years ago | Reply @Engineer: It's not about planes everytime, sometime it's guts from a pilot and willingness of doing everything right and passion for their country.

Rao | 8 years ago | Reply @Jalal: These planes are free gifts and does not cost a single paisa to the tax payer. But on the other hand, releases lots of tax money to civilian projects rather than military projects. A good move by Pak. Prime minister. He may even go down in history as a great statesman for guiding the nation through troubled times.

Wajahat | 8 years ago | Reply @Engineer: JF17 thunder is not there to counter Sukhio-30MKI. Its not an air-superiority fighter to be used in neck-to-neck dog-fights. Though, it can create havoc on ground. To counter Sukhio-30MKI and Rafael, we have F-16s and J10s later.

Yusuf | 8 years ago | Reply Yes, Thank You China.

Just sayin | 8 years ago | Reply Giving Gwadar port to China for 40 years, I think these things and "promises" of $40B investment are just petty gifts. Pakistan should have leased the port for at least $100B of pure cash in advance and then a royalty per annum afterward.

harsh | 8 years ago | Reply I still dont understand why china being all weather friend of pak wants to resolve kashmir problem bilaterally than by un resolutions?

Jalal | 8 years ago | Reply More junk fro our money. Chinese themselves do not touch JF-17 with a ten foot pole, this two number maal is for idiots on this side of the border. No wonder China is getting richer and we poorer by the day.

ILLUSIONIST | 8 years ago | Reply The cliches of pak-china friendship is empty, as China never supported pak in any of its war with India.

Pakistani | 8 years ago | Reply Pakistan need to give rights to deprived ethnic groups like Baluch and Mohajir that will make Pakistan stronger.

Engineer | 8 years ago | Reply One single Sukhio-30MKI can handle 8 of these jets at the same time. May be you should F-16s rather than junk fighter-17 which Chinese themselves have discarded.

Aschraful Makhlooq | 8 years ago | Reply Proud of Pakistan-China all weather and time tested comradeship.Pakistan-China comradeship always long live and China has proven that China is Pakistan's real,true,honest,sincere and loyal comrade than India......................

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