Why Pakistan should apologise to Bangladesh

Published: November 27, 2012

The writer is a defence analyst who retired as a lieutenant colonel in the Pakistan Army

It was reported in the media recently that the Prime Minister of Bangladesh, Sheikh Hasina Wajid, turned down an official invitation to visit Pakistan for the D-8 summit, and instead sent someone else to represent her. The reports said that this was done because Bangladesh was unhappy, that after all these years, Pakistan had yet to issue a formal apology for the events of 1971.

Whether or not Sheikh Hasina did the right thing is something that only time will tell. However, in my view, she should have come to Pakistan. Since the 1980s, five Pakistani heads of government have made official visits to Bangladesh and when president Pervez Musharraf visited Bangladesh in August 2002, he actually came very close to offering an apology. After laying a wreath at the National Martyrs’ Memorial outside Dhaka, dedicated to those killed in the war, he wrote in the official visitors’ book “Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pains of the events of 1971. The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are regrettable”. However, this obviously was not enough.

I am not sure whether the state of Pakistan will ever formally apologise to Bangladesh considering that there were two horrors committed during the Bangladesh tragedy and by that account there are not one but two reciprocal apologies that seem to be due.

This seems to be amply stated in his article by Anthony Mascarenhas, who at that time was an assistant editor with the Morning News of Karachi, a villain for most Pakistanis but for the world, an honest journalist credited for the role he played in exposing the genocide in Bangladesh and for encouraging India to play a decisive role in ending the war. On June 13, 1971, Mascarenhas wrote an article titled “Genocide” in the Times. In the article, he pointed out that there were in fact two horrors to the Bangladesh tragedy. One was committed by Bengali troops and paramilitary personnel stationed in East Pakistan who mutinied in early March 1971 and put to death many non-Bengalis and Biharis. The second horror, he wrote, was committed by Pakistani forces that in a punitive response to the killings of non-Bengalis at the hands of the mutineers and their accomplices, initiated a military operation codenamed ‘Operation Searchlight’ on the night of March 25, 1971.

However, it was the rebels who initiated the violence in March of 1971 and what happened in the ensuing months speaks of a sorry tale of killing and mayhem. In the seven months that followed, hundreds of thousands of people lost their lives.

The conventionally accepted death toll agreed by most researchers is between one and two million. The fact is that many innocent people died in deliberately executed acts of genocide and blame for this lies on both parties to the conflict. The Mukti Bahini targeted the West Pakistanis and Biharis and the Pakistani army’s military operation targeted the Hindus and the Bengali civil population. Both sides committed war crimes that warranted state apologies and not general amnesty; not yesterday and not even today.

As a Pakistani, I feel no shame in suggesting that we must apologise to Bangladesh but before we do that we must first as a state apologise to the people and the land we used to refer to as East Pakistan. An apology to them is due on two accounts. The first is that we showed wilful intent to keep the eastern wing militarily exposed, defenceless and vulnerable to India, courtesy our military strategy which was based on the reasoning that the battle of the east will be won in the west. The second has to do with the shameful manner in which the eastern wing was neglected when it was part of Pakistan.

Both these did little to allay the fears of Bengalis, and in fact, added to their insecurities and distrust that resulted in creating momentum towards a point where many started demanding secession and a separate homeland. Yes, we must apologise to Bangladesh for not doing enough for it and for being unable to guarantee the safety and security of its people when it was a part of our country.

The military solution that the government of General Yahya Khan favoured may have been in line with the principle of preservation of national unity, integrity and ideology and if better executed, may even have prevented East Pakistan’s secession from the rest of Pakistan. However, clearly it wasn’t the only solution that could have kept Pakistan united, as the events of 1971 showed. No army can hold a country together by force and it was this mistake by the military government of General Yahya Khan that made us lose half of our country. In that regard, we must also apologise to the lost Eastern Wing for using a military solution against its people and not one based on dialogue and democracy.

In a war that we lost, the minimum the state could have done was not to benefit the military leaders; in fact, they should actually have been retired and allowed to fade away. General Yahya Khan was a beneficiary of two pensions, one as Chief of Army Staff and the other as president of Pakistan. Lt Gen Yaqoob Ali Khan, who resigned and was removed from his post of Commander Eastern Command on March 1, 1971, was instead rewarded by being made ambassador to France and America and later was even appointed as Pakistan’s foreign minister. General Tikka Khan, who took over the military command from him and who initiated the infamous military operation in Dhaka on the night of November 25-26, was rewarded with the post of army chief. His generals who supervised and executed this operation in Dhaka included General Farman — he was appointed chairman of the Fauji Foundation on his return to Pakistan and Brigadier Jahanzeb Arbab was eventually promoted to lieutenant general. All these were benefits given to generals returning from a defeated war theatre.

Apologising to Bangladesh may be difficult and may take a long time in the coming but is repatriating 250,000 stranded Biharis — who call themselves Pakistanis — from Bangladesh a difficult thing as well? At the very least Pakistan should accept them.

Published in The Express Tribune, November 28th, 2012.

Reader Comments (154)

  • Rakhi Sawant
    Nov 27, 2012 - 10:44PM

    Please tell me this article is a joke.

    “when president Pervez Musharraf visited Bangladesh in August 2002, he actually came very close to offering an apology”

    Apology?!!! For what? When you kill 3 million people and rape 200,000 women, you don’t issue apology. You hang all those responsible for one of the worst human tragedies of all time.

    This proves again that Pakitanis are the worst bigots on the face of the earth.

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  • Raj Kafir
    Nov 27, 2012 - 10:45PM

    I think Pakistan won the war of 1971. This is claimed by my all Pakistani friends here in Calgary, Canada.

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  • Rakhi Sawant
    Nov 27, 2012 - 10:58PM

    “The first is that we showed wilful intent to keep the eastern wing militarily exposed, defenceless and vulnerable to India,”

    Dear Muhammed Ali Ehsan, you are a bigot to the core, just like an overwhelming majority of 180 million Pakistanis.

    Good luck with your article. Your country is bound to doom not just because of those who commit unspeakable attrocities and not hang the criminals, but also due to people who pretend to be apologetic only to hide the truth behind the veil of the imagined deceit of your enemy just to prove yourself to be a country in remorse.

    Shame on you!!!

    Why?

    Your country is has committed worst terrorism on its own people, be it Sindhi, Mohajir, Baloch or Bengali. However you are hellbent on putting the blame on Indians.

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  • A J Khan
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:11PM

    To this day, no one in the U.S. government has apologized to Iraqis for wrongly accusing them of possessing WMDs.

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  • Rakhi Sawant
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:12PM

    “The military solution that the government of General Yahya Khan favoured may have been in line with the principle of preservation of national unity, integrity and ideology and if better executed, may even have prevented East Pakistan’s secession from the rest of Pakistan. However, clearly it wasn’t the only solution that could have kept Pakistan united, as the events of 1971 showed. No army can hold a country together by force and it was this mistake by the military government of General Yahya Khan that made us lose half of our country.”

    The more I read about the article, the more I feel that this is a joke.

    As long as any cause is honest it will succeed. That’s why Bangladesh succeeded.

    And that’s exactly why kashmir will fail. It’s one of the most dishonest causes ever. At best it’s based on religion and at worst it’s just power politics.

    Somebody prove me wrong. No Paki has ever proved an Indian wrong.

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  • Lobster
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:22PM

    @Raj Kafir:
    Won the war, certainly not but ET has won many Indian readers!

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  • ishqerasool
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:34PM

    Bengali’s should apologies to us for aligning up with enemy hindus

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  • Nadir
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:40PM

    And yet history repeats itself today. Generals caught up in corruption cases and subverting the constitution, emailing journalists on mailing lists, and demanding that they be respected. Apologizing for war crimes? You must be joking. Pakistani civilians are considered second class citizens, do you think the people who orchestrated the security crackdown in East Pakistan care less of Bangladeshi’s? Now they are long dead, yet officers and civilians who supported their acts and were recommended for prosecution by the Hamoodur Rehman Commission, sailed into the sunset on the taxpayers expense. 30 years from now the same cycle will repeat itself.

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  • Falcon
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:44PM

    Agreed. This was one of the darkest phase of our history that we don’t even talk about in our books.

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  • Vikrant
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:45PM

    @Raj Kafir, going by your views, I can see why your “name” is what it is!

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  • Falcon
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:50PM

    @Rakhi Sawant:
    There is no question that war criminals on Pakistan side need to brought to justice but aren’t you being too outlandish by calling every Pakistani a bigot?

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  • Mirza
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:54PM

    Gen Mush has written some words, a sort of apology! However, words do not mean anything without remorse and remedy. Gen Yahiya was buried with full honor. Tiger Niaza was lionized with other defeated disgraced war criminals. It was ZAB who put a gag order even on the news of atrocities against Bengalis. He saved the skin of all those generals who wanted land not the people. No wonder the thankless generals hanged him as soon as they recovered from the crushing defeat! It is not one country or person against the other. It is we as a country should show remorse and admit the killing of millions of people including the hundreds of Bengali intellectuals who were buried in a big ditch just before the surrender.
    Killings and atrocities by the rebels and private militias cannot be condoned but they are not as severe as committed by the paid army against its own people. There is no example in modern history when a country’s army committed atrocities against its own people at this large scale. The people who talk about USA apologizing Iraq for invasion forget that it is a foreign invasion and not by the country’s army. This is admitting that we were behaving as an invading colonial army.Recommend

  • John
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:55PM

    @Rakhi Sawant:
    No Paki has ever proved an Indian wrong.

    Keep dreaming…

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  • Mirza
    Nov 27, 2012 - 11:57PM

    Can sombody plaese explain that East Pakistan used to be 56% of Pakistan’s population. How did 44% of the population become greater than 56% soon after 1971? Where did millions of Bengali go? Of course they have lost a lot of Bihari but that big a population difference after 1971?Recommend

  • Parvez
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:26AM

    @Rakhi Sawant: Your interview on ‘ Coffee with Karan ‘ was decidedly the best, genuine and straight forward………..

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  • BlackJack
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:28AM

    @Mirza:
    Where did millions of Bengali go?
    Millions of Bengalis didn’t go anywhere. They just got their priorities right. Population of Pakistan was 68k in 1975 and Bangladesh was 76k; after that the relative growth rates resulted in the current situation.

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  • shakrullah
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:36AM

    gentlemen :

    We generally tend to think that tendering apology is a self-humiliating

    act . We overlook the fact that it can be a self-cleansing , a

    highly ennobling act , a step towards moral regeneration . We owe an apology

    to our Bangla Deshi bretheren for our own spiritual health .

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  • Sultan
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:43AM

    Sure thing. We should definitely settle this huge debt.

    We should declare a national day of repentance and apology and it should be broadcast live on all national and where possible international channels. We should hold it on Friday and encourage all prayer leaders to participate by offering the apology in the Khutba. And we should do it on or as close to Bangladesh’s Independence Day as possible. This can be followed up by an exchange of heads of state and two 20-20 cricket games, one in Islamabad and the other in Dhaka, where the two teams should trade captains.

    Nip this horrible episode in our nation’s history for once and all.

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  • Kaalchakra
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:54AM

    Had Pakistani army acted swiftly just when the Indian army and Mukti Bahini had begun to massacre Bengalis, matters would not have come to such a pass. In its dithering and delaying against India, Pakistani army indeed failed to protect Bengalis. No fair-minded and honest Pakistani should have trouble recognizing that harsh truth. Pakistanis are a brave and honorable people, and brave and honorable people do not continue to distort their accounts of their past.

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  • Socko
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:58AM

    @A J Khan Ahh…. I assume you are a Pakistani & a muslim, Who believes in every word in Quran from Allah, May I ask you if Quran gives you the right to not tender your apology for your sin, only because you know someone else who did not bother to apologize for their sins… After all Americans do not call themselves Muslims; though most of them say they are christians, but according to your faith they are infidels… Why do you want to follow them… Follow what you say that you believe in and take a stand, otherwise come out with the truth that you dont believe in God or any such thing, and you are master of ur life answerable to none.

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  • Socko
    Nov 28, 2012 - 1:05AM

    @Mirza… Soon after independence in 1971, Bangladesh strictly enforced Family Planning to limit the family size… After two generations they are at around 150-170 Mn… If they would have continued in the same pace (As Pakistan did in the last 4 decades), they would have had a population of 210-240 Mn..

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  • Sultan
    Nov 28, 2012 - 1:15AM

    Sure thing. We should definitely settle this huge debt.

    We should declare a national day of repentance and apology and it should be broadcast live on all national and where possible international channels. We should hold it on Friday and encourage all prayer leaders to participate by offering the apology in the Khutba. And we should do it on or as close to Bangladesh’s Independence Day as possible. This can be followed up by an exchange of heads of state and two 20-20 cricket games, one in Islamabad and the other in Dhaka, where the two teams should trade captains.

    Nip this horrible episode in our nation’s history in the bud once and for all.

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  • Nov 28, 2012 - 1:32AM

    with all due respect, i think you need to learn up on things which led up to the event of the war. yes bangladesh won the majority and could have appointed a president. yes pakistan was wrong to void that election. but the points set out by mujib ur rehman were highly unreasonable. they were not even willing to negotiate. i dont think the generals got a kick of military action where they had to kill their out brotherin muslims. east pakistan was always ill managed. we can apoligize for that. but bengalis had just as much a hand in the voilence that Pakistan did. i think they should apologize for revolting in the first place. and they were as well responsible for the deaths of soo many for east pakistan. i know many relatives of mine who lost their life in that conflict. their bodies have not been recovered even to this date. i also personally know many people who had to migrate because of the mutiny that took place over there. even if pakistan was responsible for deaths of twice as many bengalis, benagladesh governement should still apologize. you cannot claim that just because pakistan MAY have killed more bengalis it should apologize first.

    secondly, you should know what follows a formal apology. repatriation. they will then ask money for those who were effected by the conflict. Pakistan has no reason to apologize or to establish a relationship with a nation like bangladesh. i dont think they will be of any aid to us in trade. the cost of the apology will weight a lot more then the benefit pakistan will receive. as long as that is the case, i dont see any reason to bother apologizing. if a nation is uninterested in establishing relations then its better just to forget about them and move on.

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  • Obaid
    Nov 28, 2012 - 1:36AM

    @Mirza:
    they migrated to west pakistan and India :-/ .. there are many people all over Pakistan today who had initially migrated to bangladesh but in 1971 they migrated to pakistan because of the actions of Bengalis

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  • ashok
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:14AM

    Mirza,

    This is very easy to explain. According to a conservative estimate, there are more than 35 million Bangladeshi illigal immigrants living and thriving in India.Alomst every city has a Bangali Muslim ghetto with a mosque or two.

    The percentage increase in the population of Muslims in India, especially in the states adjoining Bangladesh such as Assam, Tripura, West Bengal and Bihar is almost double of average percentage increase of Hindu population. According to CIA, the Congress party at center and the Communist parties both have adopted a silence policy on this issue as these parties use the illigal immigrants as vote blocks which is one of the root casue of communal riots in India..Recommend

  • F
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:23AM

    General Yahya Khan intervened and unleashed his army with full force on – at the time – his citizens. Millions were exterminated. That is and the only apology required. Don’t distract yourself with two or three apologies. Take accountability for what you did. Don’t hide behind this or that. Last, if you have the stomach for it. The seeds of conflict were sown when Mr. Jinnah imposed Urdu as the ” true Islamic ” language on all citizens – Bengalis included. Gen. Yahya Khan, with encouragement from Mr. Bhutto, tipped the boat and lit the match. You can cool the embers by offering an unconditional apology. Not sure if a people steeped in a culture of supremacist ideology can do that.

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  • Tch tch
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:35AM

    lol this is the crap our Army NDU produces. Defense analyst lol just like Zaid Hamid right?
    No actual academic now believe s the million dead toll.150,000 is accepted as the maximum.
    Anthony Mascarenhas is not an honest reporter his account was all hearsy and wild exageration.
    For God sakes read an actual book, such as Sharmila Bose Dead Reckoning. If you are from the Military try to interview some of the actual commanders. Read the Hamoodur rehman commission report, If you believe these fables you are implying Pakistan Army was Able to kill at a rate that was not ever achieved at the peak of WW2.

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  • shahid
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:49AM

    One thing that this article is missing is the role played by Z. A. Bhutto who joined with the military junta, in power at that time. After the 1970 elections he raised the famous “idhar tum, udhar hum” slogan. He refused to join the assembly session which was called in Dacca. All other prominent political parties went to Dacca except Z. A. hutto and his PPP. After the start of the military operation in East Pakistan, he thanked God for having saved Pakistan. He was supportive of the ruling junta and in fact in cahoots with them throughout the military operation. He finally became the foreign minister and the deputy prime minister of Yahya regime, and defended what they were doing. Bhutto could not accept Mujib-ur-Rehman to become the prime minister of Pakistan because that would have forced Bhutto into the position of an opposition leader in the assembly and effectively out of power for five years. This was not acceptable to him, given his feudal mindset, notwithstanding all of his noise about poor people and socialist causes. He would much rather be in the government than not; if this meant that the country would be split, so be it. And that is what finally happened and we are living with the consequences today. If he had supported Mujeeb and all other political parties who were clamoring for a civilian government after a long military rule, we would have been spared the martial laws – and a civilian martial law administrator – and the military would have been forced to return to the cantonments; they would not have had any choice. A united peoples of Pakistan would have won the day and we would be standing wihtout our heads hanging in shame. THEREFORE IT IS IN ORDER AND PROPER THAT Z. A. Bhutto’s inheritors today should also ask for AN APOLOGY FROM THE PEOPLE OF EAST PAKISTAN ON BEHALF OF Z. A. BHUTTO AND THE ROLE THAT HE PLAYED IN THAT TRAGEDY, BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN FORMALLY APOLOGIZES TO OUR BENGALI BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

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  • nomi
    Nov 28, 2012 - 3:27AM

    A lot of us dont get it.

    East Pakistan was essentially Pakistan itself – Who gave the right to west Pakistan to protect east Pakistan.

    Its like saying the Punjab has the right to protect Sindh from India.

    East Pakistanis would never have gone for separation had it not been for economic injustice.

    People can take care of themselves. No one should become a chaudhry. Just to justice.

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  • Raja Islam
    Nov 28, 2012 - 3:59AM

    Pakistan already has a big issue with immigrants from India. Why should we take on an additional 250000?

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  • Nov 28, 2012 - 4:44AM

    @Obaid: Well said, +1

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  • Obaid
    Nov 28, 2012 - 4:53AM

    @F:
    dear fool
    urdu wasnt even spoken in any of the pakistani provinces. the reason jinnah choose it was because of that. it was so that punjabis, sindhi, baluchis, kashmiris, pashtuns, or even bengalis would not have any unfair advantage over the other. west pakistan was not a colony. it was a state. one state among five other states.

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  • Mi Kon
    Nov 28, 2012 - 5:00AM

    @Rakhi Sawant:

    You remind me of Prerna who also comments here. Same person ?
    Bitter gourd part 2

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  • aysha
    Nov 28, 2012 - 5:10AM

    Biharis are nobody’s responsibility. They voted for the creation of Pakistan when in Bihar, they fought for the state of Pakistan when in East Pakistan, and now struggling for survival when in Pakistan. They are a deluded lot, they don’t understand that nobody is sincere with them, they have lost more and more post partition economically and socially. In Karachi where they are mostly located in Orangi Town they have the highest literacy rate yet they are marginalised. The life they live in the camps of Bangladesh is of sub human level, the state of Pakistan has never cared for them, and never will. It was foolish of them to have supported Muslim League

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  • Adil Uddin
    Nov 28, 2012 - 5:24AM

    @Falcon:

    There is no question that war criminals on Pakistan side need to brought to justice but aren’t you being too outlandish by calling every Pakistani a bigot?

    I guess she read too much Times Of India.TOI always wants to portray Pakistan as a land of fanatics,bigots and animals.They shamelessly even didn’t cover the Karachi Literature Festival,and never leave a single chance to mock and criticize Pakistan. She sounds new here. Maybe another Indian reader with hateful agenda to pollute our news websites so that we witness same type of vile language in our comments the way they have.I have no problem with Indians posting their comments but some seem to be not able to digest the fact that Pakistani media is atleast better,decent and mature in comparison to theirs.

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  • M.S.Choudhury
    Nov 28, 2012 - 5:27AM

    Seeking an apology is more a theoretical matter for Bangladesh. It may give us some mental solace but in my opinion it is more than that for Pakistan. This apology will not only help heal their past but more importantly will have a positive effect on the future of the united Pakistan. It will prevent them from treating their fellow citizens in the way they treated us.
    As for our population growth, I may mention that Bangladesh has heavily invested in social and educational sectors. We have lower birth rate, infant mortality rate and also greater enrollment of girls in schools than Pakistan and India. Our drop out rate from school is also lower. We now need to improve the quality of our education. We have women on bicycle traveling in the villages with laptop to make families to connect by Skype and email with their loved ones leaving abroad.This is a way we are trying to overcome the digital divide.Our women have more freedom than many South Asian neighbors.
    I strongly believe that most Pakistani’s are peace loving, nice and normal people but the small minority of people with extreme views is setting the agenda of your beloved country.

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  • salaar
    Nov 28, 2012 - 5:32AM

    Being a Pakistani, I feel ashamed at the incidents which led to event. However, to all those Indian friends who are so vigorously bashing Pakistan – please consider your own country’s role in this. Yes, W. Pakistan establishment’s policies created a sense of insecurity to the minds of E Pakistanis – but your country manipulated and created Mukti Bahini and was directly involved in those incidents. Kindly reconsider your image, YOUR NATION IS NOT AN ANGEL ON EARTH.. and how come we only talk about atrocities towards E. Pakistanis and not the atrocities inflicted by Mukti Bahini towards Beharis and Pro W Pakistanis of E Pakistan.
    The only people left stranded in the middle are poor BIHARIS, nobody seems to be taking their responsibility. Pakistan doesn’t owe an apology, however, all three countries Pakistan, Bengladesh and India should do something about Biharis

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  • From USA
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:06AM

    Wao great Rakhi Sawant
    What happen in Wars?
    We lost Half of our country because of Bengalis showed their loce with Mukti Banis to kill non Bengalis. So It was Pak army response. No country in the World would let their part of land go easily they struggle n fight till last moment.
    And yes people die in wars which is infact hurts oppenents.

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  • Nitish
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:16AM

    I think its India who should apologize pakistan .After all We parted them into two nation.There was no need to do that.Thanks to indira.Coz of her we r suffering right now.Believe me ,If i were the PM ,i would have never helped bangladesh to get separated.Pakistan has every reason to do not trust India.Recommend

  • Cosmo
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:24AM

    @A J Khan:
    So as they say: pakistan and pakistanis can never have freinds, they can only have masters to follow!!

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  • Mohammed
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:31AM

    @Raja Islam:
    Muslims migrating to Pakistan should not be a problem for you as Pakistan was created as a refuge for Muslims from Hindu majority India. Post independence how many Muslim Indians do you know have migrated to Pakistan? On the other hand millions of Muslims from Bangladesh (former East Pakistan) are even now attempting to get to India. And where did the millions of Hindus of Pakistan go? Their population at partition of about 20% is now down to about 3%.

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  • Polpot
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:37AM

    @Raj Kafir: Dawn Headlines on the morning in 1971 when 90000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to Indian Army:
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Victory in East Pakistan is certain.

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  • mr. righty rightist
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:46AM

    @Salaar who writes “Being a Pakistani, I feel ashamed at the incidents which led to event. However, to all those Indian friends who are so vigorously bashing Pakistan – please consider your own country’s role in this. Yes, W. Pakistan establishment’s policies created a sense of insecurity to the minds of E Pakistanis – but your country manipulated and created Mukti Bahini and was directly involved in those incidents.”

    Perhaps you are not aware of all the facts.

    Mukti Bahini started on its own. India did not start it. Armed resistance also started on its own.

    Only then did your army started wanton killing (The way chicken are kulled during bird flu). This led to millions of refugees to India. India back then was recovering from the defeat at the hands of China. Indian economy was weak. Besides India has a very sensitive balance of Hindu/Muslim unity and back then, it was even more sensitive.

    Only when the refugee problem had become a huge problem for India and since all Mujibur’s party’s leaders were in India, did it become possible for India to train Mukti Bahini and even arm them. But by then it did not remain Pakistan’s internal matter anymore.

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  • Polpot
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:48AM

    What did Pakistan learn from the 1971 debacle?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Not to leave the Army in charge of Political matters.
    Example: Current Baluchistan.

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  • Polpot
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:53AM

    @Obaid: “Pakistan has no reason to apologize or to establish a relationship with a nation like bangladesh”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Ditto for nationa like India, Afghanistan,Iran……..

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  • Polpot
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:55AM

    @Rakhi Sawant: Compliments Madam, you combine beauty with brains.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    If only ET had a provision for pictures of poster under the pseudonyms.

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  • Opinion
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:30AM

    Rakhi Sawant – What your Indian Army is doing in Kashmir “suppressing the independence” was exactly what we were doing our generals. In future (don’t know the time line) but when history will be written, Kashimiris will be asking for a similar apology for their genocide. Please reserve your comments till then, because then no Pakistani will put any effort to prove you guys wrong. History will speak for itself as it is speaking for our misdeeds.

    Seems like you are here for a purpose, so better be ready for future.

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  • True Indian
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:42AM

    @Falcon:
    R u not????

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  • True Indian
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:44AM

    @ishqerasool:
    hahahahahah….have u ever noticed tha happiness on Bangladesh cricket players when they defeat Pakistani team….its like they have won world cup….so forget about any apology from them and moreover they were the victims and you were the culprits…They will always be friendly to hindus coz bengalis are hindus….

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  • Chaigram
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:57AM

    @Rakhi Sawant:
    Do you know how many zeros are there in a million? And you claim 3 million Bengalis were killed in 1971 ( but only 70,000 kashmirs killed in the last 20 years by 500,000 Indian troops).
    Mr. Sawant, an atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed less than 300,000, so please gfact straights straight, 3 million people killed is number only you and Miss Hasina can believe.
    While no one can condone or justify even one killed but war is ugly and has taken 100 million lives in the 20th century.
    Please just move on, we have been fighting each other for too long. It is time to reconcile and live in peace.

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  • Syed
    Nov 28, 2012 - 8:10AM

    No need to apologize. If they were so patriotic and loved Pakistan they should have stayed with us. Besides its enough. From west to east there are so many countries who should first apologize to Pakistan. Apologize to us first, then maybe we might give it a passing thought.

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  • Zaki Khalid
    Nov 28, 2012 - 8:42AM

    Sarmila Bose’ research is always ignored. Pakistan should not apologise to ethno-centric Bengalis at all.

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  • mahakaalchakra
    Nov 28, 2012 - 8:46AM

    @From USA:
    “No country in the World would let their part of land go easily they struggle n fight till last moment.”

    Really?

    Explain to the readers as to how East Pakistan was owned by the West Pakistan or its Muslim army. You must know that population of East Pakistan was almost 56% of the entire Pakistan. With this fact in mind, I would say that the majority (of then Pakistan) wanted to get rid of minority sitting 1000s of miles away in West Pakistan. Is there any other example where majority had to struggle to get rid of rabid minority other than Pakistan in 1971? Pakistan has no moral right to use even the name “Pakistan” becase the majority dissolved the state known as Pakistan. Can any reasonable person today call this land as “PAK”?

    Besides, one should not forget that there were more than 10 million (10,000,000) refugees forced to migrate to India by the West Pakistan Muslim army and its associates like Al Badrs and AlShams during the genocide from March 1971 until they surrendered in December 1971. Was there any option left for India other than intervening to force the dictatorship to accept its population? No country would let its economy and society crumble with millions of refugees poring in and Pakistan army refused to create safe conditions for their return.

    What did Pakistan do in 1979 (actually started in 1974) in Afghanistan and still continueing?

    Recommend

  • usman
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:08AM

    Time has come to create a truth and reconcilation commission for south asians where Pakistanis apologise to Indians and Bangladeshis for partition and 1971 tragedies.Indian apologise to Pakistanis,Sikhs and Kashmiris and Bangladeshi apologises to Non-Bengali’s and Bihari’s for all the attrocities. This is only way looking forward

    Recommend

  • Mirza
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:12AM

    Thanks a lot to all those who have given their feedback and shared their knowledge from various points of views. This is an ongoing process of learning for me.

    Recommend

  • Virkaul
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:25AM

    @ishqerasool: What a mindset and irony! The majority (of erstwhile East Pakistan) is being tried by the minorities of West Punjab.

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  • Raj Kafir
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:30AM

    @Vikrant: KAFIR is my pen name for ET only, otherwise I am a Sikh and my two brothers are senior officers in Indian Army. One is Major-General and other is Brigadier.

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  • Nov 28, 2012 - 9:33AM

    For all those who are bashing India, let me remind you that Indian forces were welcomed by the Bengalis as liberators and garlanded. Let me also remind you the 93,000 Soldiers India safeguarded from the Mukti Bahini following Geneva Conventions.

    India has not only saved Bengali lives, but also the lives of 93,000 Pakistani soldiers.

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  • Philip
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:33AM

    The Mascarenhas article still shocks — I read it first when it appeared in 1971 — but you have misinterpreted what he writes about retaliation. True, there were attacks at the beginning of March on non-Bengalis, but there were not that many casualties. The mutiny of the EPR and the killing of Biharis then occurred after the crackdown of March 25 — though possibly it was planned before, as Mascarenhas notes. It is important to note what Mascarenhas writes in the body of his piece:

    “Officials privately justify what has been done as a retaliation for the massacre of the non-Bengalis before the army moved in. But events suggest that the pogrom was not the result of a spontaneous or undisciplined reaction. It was planned. . . .

    “When the army units fanned out in Dacca on the evening of March 25, in pre-emptive strikes against the mutiny planned for the small hours of the next morning, many of them carried lists of people to be liquidated. These included the Hindus and large numbers of Muslims; students, Awami Leaguers, professors, journalists and those who had been prominent in Sheikh Mujib’s movement. The charge, now publicly made, that the army was subjected to mortar attack from the Jaganath Hall, where the Hindu university students lived, hardly justifies the obliteration of two Hindu colonies, built around the temples on Ramna race course, and a third in Shakrepati, in the heart of the old city. Nor does it explain why the sizeable Hindu populations of Dacca and the neighbouring industrial town of Narayanganj should have vanished so completely during the round-the-clock curfew on March 26 and 27. There is similarly no trace of scores of Muslims who were rounded up during the curfew hours. These people were eliminated in a planned operation: and improvised response to Hindu aggression would have had different results.”

    Recommend

  • BlackJack
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:53AM

    @Kaalchakra:
    Thou hast returned! And I am actually happy about it :).

    Recommend

  • Foreign Leg
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:06AM

    “In the article, he pointed out that there were in fact two horrors to the Bangladesh tragedy”
    .
    The author has taken the letter “Genocide” of Pakistani journalist Mascarenhas for the entire history leading up to the Liberation War of Bangladesh. While Mascarenhas was anguished by the death and suffering around him that spurred him to listen to his conscience and write this article (even though he was sent to Bangladesh to write an account sympathetic to Pakistan), it alone cannot be used to explain the history leading up to the war.
    .
    For instance, the letter does not mention the root cause — the mismanagement of the aftermath of Cyclone Bhola — that killed 300,000 to 500,000 Bangladeshis. The mutiny and Operation Searchlight followed a few months later.
    .
    The other point to note is that many events happened in quick succession. Mascarenhas himself says that he saw numerous killings by both sides in a span of 10 days during Operation Searchlight.
    .
    To justify the genocide by portraying the mutiny as the root cause shows that Pakistan is still not ready to apologize.

    Recommend

  • Komal S
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:10AM

    @Obaid:
    And here lies the ignorance. The folks on the west side of Pakistan are lot more closer to urdu. They used urdu scripts to write their own language. It was an easier adjustments for them(emotionally) as compared to Bengalis. It is not different in India where an average punjabi is ok with Hindi as compared to an average Tamilian. Jinnah just like Gandhi was advocating one common unification language, in my opinion both were wrong. Fortunately for India in the 1950s the people in South( primarily Tamil Nadu) fought against imposition of Hindi and succeeded. Also the good news is after 60+ years of independence Hindi is learnt/spoken by more people in India out of their own will. Trying to forge unity by forcing one language is not a good idea.

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  • Historian 1
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:26AM

    British offered Jinnah small Pakistan (West Pakistan) but STRONG Pakistan (Simon Commission) rather than bigger Pakistan (West + East) but weak Pakistan. Jinnah demanded bigger Pakistan. History proved British were right.

    Recommend

  • Virkaul
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:39AM

    In a secret govt affidavit, Gen Yahyah Khan stated,

    “It was Bhutto, not Mujib who broke Pakistan. Bhutto’s stance in 1971, and his stubbornness, harmed Pakistan’s solidarity Much more than Sheikh Mujib’s six Point demand. It was his ambitions and rigid stance that led to rebellion in East Pakistan. He riled up the Bengalis and Brought an end to Pakistan’s solidarity. East Pakistan broke away.”

    Recommend

  • Feroz
    Nov 28, 2012 - 11:04AM

    Your views of what happened in Bangladesh in 1971 has no takers except in your own organisation and a few in Pakistan. There was only one aggressor there and it is natural that some retaliation also happened. The scale and brutality of the violence unleashed by the military there on their own people has no equivalent in modern history. The perpetrators should have been tried for war crimes in an International tribunal. An apology or attempts at whitewash cannot change history but it seems from the repeat of events in Baluchistan that the Military believes it did nothing wrong, putting the territorial integrity of the country to further stress. When crime is not punished because the perpetrators are powerful, that country is destined to keep shedding blood as people take law into their hands.
    If you live by the sword, you also die by it !

    Recommend

  • Lord
    Nov 28, 2012 - 11:37AM

    Saying sorry on your mistake is an act of character not of shame.

    Recommend

  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Nov 28, 2012 - 11:43AM

    @Obaid:
    Dear smart guy,

    urdu wasnt even spoken in any of the
    pakistani provinces. the reason jinnah
    choose it was because of that. it was
    so that punjabis, sindhi, baluchis,
    kashmiris, pashtuns, or even bengalis
    would not have any unfair advantage
    over the other.

    Maybe Jinnah should have choose Arabic or what’s wrong with Greek anyway?

    Recommend

  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:08PM

    @shakrullah: “gentlemen :
    We generally tend to think that tendering apology is a self-humiliating
    act . We overlook the fact that it can be a self-cleansing , a
    highly ennobling act , a step towards moral regeneration . We owe an apology
    to our Bangla Deshi bretheren for our own spiritual health .”

    Self-cleansing, that Sir is the crux of the matter. And it comes with introspection, identification of fault, guilt, confession, remorse and self-cleansing. And then comes freedom !

    Recommend

  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:12PM

    @Sultan: “Sure thing. We should definitely settle this huge debt.
    We should declare a national day of repentance and apology and it should be broadcast live on all national and where possible international channels…Nip this horrible episode in our nation’s history in the bud once and for all.”

    Well said ! Sir, on some days you do talk sense.

    Recommend

  • Nitish
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:17PM

    @Parvez:
    Your interview on ‘ Coffee with Karan ‘ was decidedly the best, genuine and straight forward………..
    your comment is extremely of bad taste.Seems like you dont respect women.

    Recommend

  • Emode
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:31PM

    @ Virkaul…problem solved.. it is Bhutto who should apologize…. well if they are apologizing for the wrong they have done to this country then, i guess a whole generation would have nothing else to do.

    Well written, i completely agree. We lost our country, our brothers and sisters and that too in a worst of way. But As Pakistan (west) considered itself alter brother, then they should make the first move, and east should really consider want Mushii did as a positive gesture from a very egoist person/country.

    Recommend

  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Nov 28, 2012 - 12:43PM

    @Tch tch:

    read an actual book, such as Sharmila
    Bose Dead Reckoning

    please do some actual research. Sharmila Boses’s book is widely shown to be historically inaccurate, flawed in methodology of statistical analysis, misrepresent referenced sources and give disproportionate weight to Pakistan army testimonies. The book and the author have zero peer respect.
    Maybe that’s why Pakistanis seem to like it so much.

    Recommend

  • Bilawal Awan
    Nov 28, 2012 - 1:10PM

    I cant understand that why this so called liberals think that apology can create an ease between two nations. Why do you want to low down our heads beacause of the sins and crimes our forefathers did? When You have not apologized the time it has to then why now? Do not forget Bangladesh is not an East Pakistan anymore from whom you can aplogize just like that and we are a Democratic country so its not like our Foreign Minister can just say sorry on the behalf our Nation. Till date Sheikh Hasina Wajid party play,s Politics on !971 war and this is just another Political stunt. So forget the past and move on. This apology will give us nothing and we should apologize first to our people then think about others.

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  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 1:14PM

    For Pakistanis who blame India for 1971 – some history for you

    Go back to 1965 and Operation Gibraltar. This was a deliberate and planned military offensive to break India. That went into our account books, something that we owed to Pakistan. In 1970-71, your generals foolishly provided us with a chance to pay back, and we did, in great style.

    But Indira Gandhi made a big mistake when negotiating the Shimla Agreement and let off Pakistan a bit too lightly.

    Now Pakistanis being Pakistanis, will not learn from their mistakes. So what do they do following India’s generosity shown in the signing of Shimla Agreement ? They come up with a new plan to break India. This time backed by two major world powers, the United States and China. Hence Operation Topaz was launched. This was a very serious attempt to break India and resulted in major insurgencies in Punjab, Kashmir and parts of north-east India. Please don’t ask me how, but I know a lot about Operation Topaz and observed it closely when it was being implemented.

    As is always the case with Pakistani generals’ grandiose plans, this one failed too. And Operation Topaz also went into India’s account books. And even before we could begin to think, the Commando launches the Kargil offensive. Another one for our account books.

    My honest advice to Pakistanis, do not blame Indians now, or in the future. We have an account to settle. Negotiations are possible, but those will be on India’s terms, make no mistake.

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  • salaar
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:15PM

    @mr. righty rightist who writes : “Mukti Bahini started on its own. India did not start it. Armed resistance also started on its own”

    I think you need to set your records straight here. I wont go further just a quote from Indra Gandhi should suffice: “India’s revenge for 1000 years Muslim rule” – so don’t be so naive that India has nothing to do with it. What India did in E Pakistan is the same what Pakistan did in Afghanistan and what Turkey is doing in Syria !
    Kindly read this article as well which might open your eyes :
    http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/164530-bangladesh-war-hero-book.html

    Recommend

  • Foreign Leg
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:27PM

    @Feroz: The scale and brutality of the violence unleashed by the military there on their own people has no equivalent in modern history.
    .
    Yes, Even Syria pales in comparison.

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  • Parvez
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:50PM

    @Nitish: I would think otherwise……….. I’m a little confused ………please explain.

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  • Sultan
    Nov 28, 2012 - 2:58PM

    @Jat:

    @Sultan
    Well said ! Sir, on some days you do talk sense.

    I wish I could say the same for you….

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  • debal
    Nov 28, 2012 - 3:02PM

    Actually India should apologise to Bangladesh for not handing over 90,000 Pakistani soldiers to Mukti Bahini.

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  • mc duffy
    Nov 28, 2012 - 3:37PM

    if bangladeshis are expecting an apology then they should forget it. pakistan has a million other issues to handle, that country is of no importance right now. Both the generations that suffered will soon be too old and the current majority of people are youth they have nothing to do with the 1970′s.

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  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 3:55PM

    @Sultan: Never wish for something that is not possible :)

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  • Its (still) Econonmy Stupid
    Nov 28, 2012 - 4:15PM

    This article is plagiarized or at best based on the following article in Guardian.
    “It’s not the arithmetic of genocide that’s important. It’s that we pay attention”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/21/ian-jack-bangladesh-war-genocide
    Welcome to global digital community few clicks and you are exposed.

    Recommend

  • Polpot
    Nov 28, 2012 - 4:30PM

    @Yuri Kondratyuk: “Maybe Jinnah should have choose Arabic or what’s wrong with Greek anyway?”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I would prefer greek…..ergo cogito sum…
    and Paki economy is closely following that of Greece:)

    Recommend

  • abs
    Nov 28, 2012 - 4:30PM

    @Rakhi Sawant – Your name is good enough for creating the drama (irrespective you are the same or some other Rakhi Sawant).
    @ Author of this article – Well documented and must say an apology at a national level from both sides should come soon and biharis should be bak in Pakistan.

    Recommend

  • Zaheer
    Nov 28, 2012 - 4:45PM

    @A J Khan:
    USA was not part of Iraq, nor is it a brother Muslim country. Bangladesh was part of Pakistan, Bengalis were Pakistanis and thousands were killed by its own army. Don’t tell me you are dud enough not to see the difference? Looks like you represent the mindset that supported the killing of Bengalis in 1971!

    Recommend

  • Obaid
    Nov 28, 2012 - 4:46PM

    @Polpot:
    India is the immediate neighbour and so are the other countries. regionable stability is a must for trade and economic development. iran even has vast natural resources. but bangladesh is soo far away. i dont think it can offer pakistan anything but jute. and we wont die without jute so.. its all economics. not emotional. the political leadership of pakistan is only interested in developing relationship with bangladesh cause its a muslim country. i believe that shouldnt matter and economic interests should only be looked into.

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  • Nitish
    Nov 28, 2012 - 5:12PM

    @Parvez:No ,i cant explain you.I m bit confused too.Recommend

  • mr. righty rightist
    Nov 28, 2012 - 5:23PM

    @debal who writes “Actually India should apologise to Bangladesh for not handing over 90,000 Pakistani soldiers to Mukti Bahini.”

    Not enough. India should apologize to Indians for not bargaining on the lives of 90,000 Paki soldiers.

    India should apologize to Pakistan, for not teaching it a lesson and not straightening it and instead let it become an even bigger monster.

    In a way, tens of Pakistanis who are dying today on a daily basis because of extremism is a direct result of India not teaching Pakistanis a lesson in 1971.

    Recommend

  • faraz
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:00PM

    @Jat: You have an account to settle? Why don’t you go ahead? Why do want to establish trade relations with us? Why are you always picture of “Baghal Mein Churi Munh Mein Ram Ram”?

    Recommend

  • Faraz
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:04PM

    @ashok:
    Can you kindly quote figures from the last indian national census to prove this.
    The imagined fantastic hyper growth of the Muslim population of India is a right wind falsehood that has poisoned national discourse.
    Poor Muslims have just as many kids as poor Hindus do and the same equation holds for rich Muslims.
    There have been several studies that have debunked your assertions.
    The infiltration of Bangldeshis is an important issue. But, I don’t see anybody too concerned about the presence of a large number of Nepalese people in India either.

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  • Shakir Lakhani
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:37PM

    @ True Indian: have you noticed that when India and Pakistan play cricket in Bangladesh, the Bangladeshis clearly support Pakistan?

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  • patriot
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:46PM

    even if we apologise sheikh hasina will continue to be indifferent to pakistan.So NO apology should be offered to racists.

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  • G. Din
    Nov 28, 2012 - 6:47PM

    “… there are not one but two reciprocal apologies that seem to be due.”
    By “reciprocal apologies” are you suggesting that Bangladesh should apologize to Pakistan? Pray do enlighten us of the rationale underlying this assertion of yours.
    Then you refer to “the article by Anthony Mascarenhas, who at that time was an assistant editor with the Morning News of Karachi, a villain for most Pakistanis but for the world, an honest journalist credited for the role he played in exposing the genocide in Bangladesh …”. So this apology you are expecting from Bangladesh is in respect of the genocide Pakistan carried out on its own citizens?
    Strange, indeed!
    I suggest to you that there are not just two apologies that are due!
    Here is a summary of apologies:
    1. Breach of trust and breach of faith of East Pakistani populace when they, along with Muslims of Bihar and C.P (Central Province) of British India, made Pakistan possible. Apology from Pakistan to Bangladesh!
    2. Exploitation of East Pakistan by Pakistani Punjabis by diverting majority of its resources to development of West Pakistan until their union dissolved; From Pakistan to Bangladesh!
    3. Genocide of Bangla population by Pakistani Punjabis and Bihari-Pakistanis; From Pakistan to Bangladesh!
    4. Driving out 10 million of its Bangla citizens into India as refugees fleeing from a cruel carnage; From Pakistan to Bangladesh and India!
    5. Imposition of such an intolerable burden of caring for 10 million refugees on India; From Pakistan to India!
    6. Desertion of its nearly 300,000 Bihari-Pakistanis at the end of the war who are still rotting in Bangladeshi refugee camps because, being proud Pakistanis, they would not accept Bangladeshi citizenship when offered; From Pakistan to its own Bihari-Pakistani citizens.
    The above list is only of apologies and all of them need to be tendered by Pakistan and Pakistan alone.
    Financial reparations due India and compensations to its own past East Pakistanis and Bihari-Pakistanis need still to be addressed!
    Is there any room for any reciprocity anywhere at all in this sordid adventure of Pakistan?

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  • M.S.Choudhury
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:07PM

    Reading some comments from our Pakistani brothers it is quite apparent that many of them are not yet ready to accept that wrong was done to the than East Pakistanis.Until you recognize the mistakes,you will continue to repeat the same and meet the same .Recommend

  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:15PM

    @faraz: “@Jat: You have an account to settle? Why don’t you go ahead? Why do want to establish trade relations with us? Why are you always picture of “Baghal Mein Churi Munh Mein Ram Ram”?”

    It is a normal business practice to settle accounts; unless, unless you are Pakistan and used to perpetual begging. You should have worried about it before launching Operation Topaz, Operation Kargil and Operation “kill 166 innocent civilians in Mumbai”.

    Did you really think you can cause so much harm to our country with no repercussions ? Funny people.

    Chhuri bagal mein nahi hai, saamne hai…

    Recommend

  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:39PM

    @faraz: “@Jat: You have an account to settle? Why don’t you go ahead? Why do want to establish trade relations with us? Why are you always picture of “Baghal Mein Churi Munh Mein Ram Ram”?”

    It is a normal business practice to settle accounts; unless, unless you are Pakistan and used to perpetual begging. You should have worried about it before launching Operation Topaz, Operation Kargil and Operation “kill 166 innocent civilians in Mumbai”.

    Did you really think you can cause so much harm to our country with no repercussions ? Funny people.

    Chhuri bagal mein nahi hai, saamne hai…

    Recommend

  • Tahir
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:56PM

    @Rakhi Sawant:
    The Express Tribune is a Pakistani newspaper but I see most of the comments on the website are made by militant Indians with a inbred hatred of all Pakistan. The journalist here is making a sensible comment and majority of the Pakistani’s have no ill feeling for India, however anyone from outside the indian sub-continent will probably feel that all indians hate pakistan just from the comments regularly appearing here by people like you. Perhaps you forget Pakistan & Bangladesh were created by your indian leaders and the ordinary pakistani or bangladeshi did not request it. Both Pakistan & Bangladesh were born from a vitrious divorce by your leaders and the comman man in both countries are not what you keep writing about. This is true for all the indians commenting on this newspaper.

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  • Hella1
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:57PM

    @Shakir Lakhani,
    “@ True Indian: have you noticed that when India and Pakistan play cricket in Bangladesh, the Bangladeshis clearly support Pakistan?”
    That’s because its normal human tendency to support underdogs.

    Recommend

  • Hella1
    Nov 28, 2012 - 7:58PM

    @Shakir Lakhani,
    “@ True Indian: have you noticed that when India and Pakistan play cricket in Bangladesh, the Bangladeshis clearly support Pakistan?”
    That’s because its normal human tendency to support underdogs.Recommend

  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 8:01PM

    @Akhter: “however if you feel that like a Banniya you have acquired a lot of accounts

    Baniyas are as important a community as any other living in India.

    Please stop antagonizing the silent majority who just want to live in Peace.

    Was your silent majority antagonized when 166 innocent civilians were being killed ?

    Finally this article was about whether Pakistan owes an apology to Bangladesh for events of 1971,

    And so many Pakistanis insisted on dragging India’s name in the discussion, therefore I just thought I better straighten the record.

    I for one am sick and tired

    I don’t know about tired, but agree with you being sick; after all what kind of people will kill 3 million of their fellow citizens. You Sir, indulged in the largest most brutal genocide, of your own people, since the second world war.

    acquired a lot of accounts and it is absolutely imperative you satisfy some sort of macho instinct , please feel free to settle them whenever you wish.

    Why doubt, didn’t we settle it once before in 1971 ? Account will be settled one way or the other at a time and place of our choosing. You have played your hand, it is only fair we get our turn.

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  • Sultan
    Nov 28, 2012 - 8:34PM

    @Polpot:

    @Rakhi Sawant: Compliments Madam, you combine beauty with brains.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    If only ET had a provision for pictures of poster under the pseudonyms

    Only then people will realize that her “brains” hang below her chin!

    Recommend

  • Sultan
    Nov 28, 2012 - 8:36PM

    @Mirza:

    Thanks a lot to all those who have given their feedback and shared their knowledge from various points of views. This is an ongoing process of learning for me.

    You sound like a typical PML-N darbari!

    Recommend

  • shakrullah
    Nov 28, 2012 - 8:44PM

    We , the people of the Sub-Continent , never tire of

    bragging about our spirituality . But

    in 1947 we committed worst-ever genocides of the 20th

    century . And then what we did in East Pakistan

    in 1971 and in Sri Lanka only a couple of years back.

    It confirms that our spirituality

    is illusory . The beast in us is untamed ever ready

    to kill, plunder, and rape .

    The whole Sub-continent , I believe , should join once

    a year for a day of collective

    mourning over our spiritual failings.

    We , the people of the Sub-Continent , never tire of

    bragging about our spirituality . But

    in 1947 we committed worst-ever genocides of the 20th

    century . And then what we did in East Pakistan

    in 1971 and in Sri Lanka only a couple of years back.

    It confirms that our spirituality

    is illusory . The beast in us is untamed ever ready

    to kill, plunder, and rape .

    The whole Sub-continent , I believe , should join once

    a year for a day of collective

    mourning over our spiritual failings.

    Recommend

  • Lala Gee
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:04PM

    @Rakhi Sawant:

    “This proves again that Pakitanis are the worst bigots on the face of the earth”

    Well!. Well!. Well!. Look who is saying what. An Indian, the most bigoted, malevolent, and malicious nation on planet earth; no neighbor escaped from their malicious designs. Lets look at how friendly are India’s relations with her neighbors.

    1- China – fought a war and territorial disputes.
    2- Pakistan – fought 3 wars and territorial disputes.
    3- Sri Lanka – fought a clandestine war there using LTTE and other terrorist outfits.
    4- Bangladesh – water and immigrant disputes, hostile public opinion.
    5- Nepal – diplomatic tensions due to hegemonic attitude on various issues.
    6- Bhutan – diplomatic tensions due to hegemonic attitude on various issues.
    7- Sikim – annexed by force.
    8- Goa – annexed by force.
    9- Juna Gadh – annexed by force.
    10- Kashmir (IOK) – keeping at gun point with half million army personnel.

    The whole world knows the role of India in sponsoring subversions in her neighboring countries. Check these details of Indian involvement in arming, training, and funding “Mukti Bahini” in East Pakistan, and “LTTE terrorists” in Sri Lanka.

    Even your own citizens were not spared from the malice of Hindu majority. Remember, over 150,000 Sikhs were killed or slaughtered by Indian army and Hindu hooligans, over 90,000 Kashmiri Muslims were brutally tortured to death by Indian army and buried in mass-graves, and thousands of Indian Muslims were killed in anti-Muslim riots; and I am not talking about those millions who got hurt or displaced, and their homes and property burnt. Read these reports by Human Rights Watch Organization, and if you have any shame left, just apologize here to the victims of your malevolence.

    1- “Protecting the Killers: A Policy of Impunity in Punjab, India”
    2- “Everyone Lives in Fear. Patterns of Impunity in Jammu and Kashmir”
    3- “India: Communal Violence and the Denial of Justice”

    Recommend

  • mahakaalchakra
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:09PM

    @ Faraz:”@ashok:
    Can you kindly quote figures from the last indian national census to prove this.”

    The government of India is yet to make public the results of 2011 census. I guess manipulation is taking a lot of time even during the digital and IT age in India. There are many districts around Bangladesh such as Murshidabad which has become Muslim MAJORITY districts in the 2010 elections.

    Google the recent news report which says that US authorities believe that there are many more Muslims in India than are officially stated and there population could be substantially higher than the figure which is generally reported by the government of India.The report further says that Muslim population could be around 180 million or 18 crores in India. But given the fact that the census 2011 report is still pending, the Indian Muslims could now be accounting well over 200 million, as more than 12 years have passed since the 2001 census.

    The estimated Muslim population on the basis of around 30% decennial increase in the community in India, takes the figure to 230-240 million (23-24 crore) right now, which means that Indian Muslims easily outnumber Pakistani Muslims, and could also be more numerous than Muslims in Indonesia.

    Because of higher birthrates and an influx of migrants from neighboring Bangladesh, the percentage of Muslims in India has risen from about 9.91% in 1951 to 13.43% in 2001 to 18.9% in 2010 according to wikkipedia.

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  • Feroz
    Nov 28, 2012 - 9:28PM

    @Faraz:
    I dont think Ashok can answer that question but being an Indian i know a few facts. Nepal citizens do not need a passport to travel to India or to work here, for them all of India is Nepal. Secondly, there is a huge immigration of Bangladeshi Muslims in all states adjoining Bangladesh like West Bengal, Assam and Tripura. There the growth of Muslim population is 50% higher than Hindu population, over the last 30 years. I totally agree with you that Indian Muslims are not breeding at a rate any faster than the Hindu population. It is the illegal immigrant population who has been brought into the electoral rolls that has skewed the numbers causing consternation in different quarters.

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  • mukhtar
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:01PM

    when you don’t know the facts don’t abuse.Abusive language itself speaks that you have no arguement. A well written article. It takes two to clap.While talking about atrocities by Pakistan army don’t forget the brutalities by Mukti Bahini and India attacking with 3 corps against ill equipped 3 divisions of Pakistan with no LOC

    To move forward both should apologize.

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  • warisrathore
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:06PM

    There is no doubt that Pakistani civillain and military leadership were unfair with Bengalis but what about the atrocities of Mukhti Bahinis backed by wicked Indians Did they not rape the women & kill the Biharis & West Pakistani citizens (civillians & military)?.Failure & conspiracies/inefficiencies of civillian leadership was one of the major factor from both ends West Pakistan & East Pakistan.It was 1958 when Ayub took over, by then a lot of damage had been done. Ayub regime actually worsened the already critical situation. The anti-Pakistan role of India at that time, which is presently quite effective, should have been highlighted/checked.There were thousands of teachers from India who were fulfilling their agenda by training the Bengalies but still Bengalies Loved Pakistan less the mukti bhanis who with monetary& military help of Indians & other anti Pakistan Countries were fighting against Pakistan internaly & Indians waged a war .Do not you feel, still Indians are trying to have control over countries in the Region. Unfortunately Pakistan has always faced the international conspiracies & weak leadership.I wish pakistan should now recognize its enemies & friends, should have think tanks to guide the leadership..If Pakistan is to appologise from Bengalis then Bbengalies should also appologise for attrocities of Mukthi Bahinis.

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  • anonymus
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:07PM

    @A J Khan:

    if it was pakistan they would have planted WMD in iraq. they did not apologize but did not lie afterwards.
    you are still lying after 40 years.
    Bnegal was Pakistan not us, and we treated it like a colony. for historical correction Mujib was arrested before any unrest started and bengalies were killed before they killed anyone.
    Pakistan attacked india on west side before india lauched formal military operation in East pakistan

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  • Jat
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:07PM

    The longer you hold a mirror in front of Pakistan, more is the number of paid and unpaid worms that begin to crawl out of the rotten woodwork. Nothing hurts them more than a dose of truth and real history.

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  • anonymus
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:17PM

    @Mirza:
    it was foreign army- it iwas punjab army. They did what ever they could to keep the control on Bengal as colony, as much as they could,. If Mujib was given free hand then country would have broken in 5 parts rather than in one as per same mindset . They did everything possible under sun incluidg genocide, rape of woman and country infrastructure.
    now same people have free hand all over the country.
    Infact bengal was the Pakistan from establishment of Muslim league and partition of Bengal. few children and brothers of Zia can understand that.

    mazay hee mazay till next surrender.

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  • mr. righty rightist
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:25PM

    @Lala Gee who writes “1- China – fought a war and territorial disputes.
    2- Pakistan – fought 3 wars and territorial disputes.
    3- Sri Lanka – fought a clandestine war there using LTTE and other terrorist outfits.
    4- Bangladesh – water and immigrant disputes, hostile public opinion.
    5- Nepal – diplomatic tensions due to hegemonic attitude on various issues.
    6- Bhutan – diplomatic tensions due to hegemonic attitude on various issues.
    7- Sikim – annexed by force.
    8- Goa – annexed by force.
    9- Juna Gadh – annexed by force.
    10- Kashmir (IOK) – keeping at gun point with half million army personnel.”

    Do you keep these lies saved in a file?

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  • mahakaalchakra
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:32PM

    @Lala Gee:

    You are exibit A of denialistan. One can claim the same for China who fought wars with India, USSR, Korea, Vietnam, USA and is continuing island wars with Japan, So Korea, Philippline, Vietnam, Indonesia and many other countries around the mainland.

    Nothing, repeat NOTHING can compare what Punjabi-Muslim Pakistan army did to its fellow citizens in 1971. There was a genocide of 3 million East Pakistanis and rape of 300,000 innocent females form 6 to 60 in 1971 by the Punjabi-Muslim army and its collaborator razakars from AlBadr and AlShams. Nothing you do or wrtie will change the history. No one was ever charged or punished for the crimes against humanity by the army that is why they continued to do the same in Balochistan and also in KP.

    India is not perfect country but it s army is absolutely under the control of civilian authorities. You figures are exacerated by almost 10 times about the deaths of Sikhs and Kashmirs in 66 years. You talk about Mukti- Bahini which was made of refugees from East Pakistan numbering 10 millions but forget that it was disbanded right on December 16, 1971 when 93,000 Pakistanis surrendered. Pakistan started training and arming Mujahideens in 1979 and shop is still open with multiple branhes with no end in sight. Pakistan has developed a habit of chewing more than it can digest or punching beyond its weight. That is why Pakistan is always in crisis. Much credit goes to Lala Gees and other hawks of Pakistan who stay in denial mode and always looking for a chance to hurt its neighbors be it India or Afghanistan.

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  • gp65
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:48PM

    @True Indian: “@Falcon:
    R u not????”

    No he is not. I have seen hundreds of posts by him over the past couple of years and not one of them was bigoted. There are many other Pakistanis on this board who are open minded – regardless of whether we agree with their opinions on specific issues or not.

    @Rakhee Sawant was out of line to make such a broad sweeping statement that all Pakistanis are bigoted.

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  • Ahsan
    Nov 28, 2012 - 10:48PM

    @sawant the only thing u can is mujra.go and do that.

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  • Enlightened
    Nov 28, 2012 - 11:14PM

    Indian army officers and jawans who came back India after winning the war spoke of unprecedented genocide and rapes by Pak soldiers of Bengali people and women respectively. They reported of several mass graves all over Bangladesh and un-buried dead bodies lying in open spaces who were shot dead by machine gun fire after assembling them in one place and others in nullahs and schools etc. Large number of Bengali women were found after over-running cities and towns in Pak army barracks and officer’s messes. Indian jawans use to call Pak army as kasai fauj ie army of butchers who killed their own countrymen without showing any mercy on them. Pak army who committed genocide and rapes on its own people could not fight the Indian army and most of the units surrendered tamely without firing a bullet. Only Baloch Regiments fought well and in one battle of Jamalpur in BD, 31 Baluch Regt fought for three days after being surrounded by Indian infantry brigade and being bombarded day and night by air and artillery fire. They only surrendered when left with little ammunition and more than half of the regt were martyred but such cases of bravery are very few to be recalled. Pakistan should necessarily apologise to Bangladesh at the earliest to give a healing touch to its people for committing un-parallel acts of barbarism in East Pakistan.

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  • Iftikhar Alam
    Nov 28, 2012 - 11:53PM

    *There is no need to extend apology to each other, that was a “TIT FOR TAT” and the attitude of both the countries towards the incident is just a “ping pong game” and it will keep on going like that for some more time and then, suddenly one day you all will hear unification in terms of humanity & love. So I urge you all, please do not waste your energies on topics, about which you only have a tiny know how. Discuss the unification of humanity with LOVE. *

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  • Its (still) Econonmy Stupid
    Nov 29, 2012 - 12:03AM

    @Lala Gee:
    Lalaji: I checked the link you cited. Those are from UNCHR with a disclaimer : This is not a UNHCR publication. UNHCR is not responsible for, nor does it necessarily endorse, its content. Any views expressed are solely those of the author or publisher and do not necessarily reflect those of UNHCR, the United Nations or its Member States. Writer is father of the victim. Second report everyone lives in fear is about Kashmir on both sides and not unique to India. This work is supported by a private Lindenberg Foundation with no information on source of funds.Do you have any other peer reviewed articles or more reputable source? If not than it is about time for you to concede that your research skills are very poor. Take a time out to learn new skills or stop quoting information from Journal of Timbuktu.
    Dispute with other countries are of the norm than the exceptions. In international diplomacy sometimes disputes are created purposely to drain the resources of the country or to extract concession from them.

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  • Akhter
    Nov 29, 2012 - 12:34AM

    @Jat:@ mr. righty rightist @mahakaalchakra
    “Nothing hurts them more than a dose of truth and real history”.
    The Truth often hurts which is why your so worked up in a frenzy.
    I hope your getting paid a lot of money for your sycophantic venom towards ordinary peace loving Pakistani’s. Especially when you look in the mirror and realize what a racist Supremacist you have become.
    With regards’s to the lies you and SOME of your compatriots have been regularly espousing like some form of verbal diarrhea, All i can say is it’s an old saying” IF YOU REPEATEDLY TELL YOURSELF and OTHERS LIES” eventually you and they will begin to believe in it, For example 3 Million Bengali’s Killed! I beg to differ!
    although in all honesty for me the loss of a single life is one too many!
    Another preposterous allegation is”300,000 Women raped!!!” are you SURE? or do you think it was perhaps 400,000? or maybe it was 250,000? while this was happening i guess you was standing and counting were you?. It’s again a fabrication, I accept and agree that many many Bengali brothers were killed in that tragic and ugly incident also many women may have been raped which in itself is heinous crime. But surely an incident that occurred over 40 years ago you cannot accredit or blame on our generation???
    In that case while were at it lets blame ALL Germans for the Atrocities the Nazi’s committed against the Jews and hold them to account shall we?
    Or wait a minute the Australians wiped out 90% of the Aborigine population in Australia WHY don’t we hold the present lot to account and call them a bunch of Rapist/Murderers???
    Maybe we should also attack the USA because they wiped out the Indigenous Indian population???
    In India on the other hand Many atrocities have been committed against Minorities and these have been well documented (Sikh Genocide, Kashmir Genocide,Assam Genocide etc) but i REFUSE TO BLAME/ACCUSE ALL INDIANS its not fair to target the silent majority who just want to get on with everybody, WARS and MOBS are started by self interested EVIL Individuals whose single aim is to create suffering for a particular group.
    I would again ask you to stop making personal attacks against Pakistani People but then it has not stopped you in the past?.

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  • Akhter
    Nov 29, 2012 - 12:38AM

    @Jat:
    “Was your silent majority antagonized when 166 innocent civilians were being killed ?”
    For your information YES we were very upset and angry at the atrocities that the Evil Kasab and co committed! and i still campaign that the true masterminds behind such an evil act should be brought to justice!

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  • jahandad
    Nov 29, 2012 - 1:02AM

    @Enlightened:
    pak army in 1971 comprised of more than 40% bangalis and no bangali officers after the war repoted such things,,,,,,,,you are an excellent propaganda machine,,,,,

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  • Its (still) Econonmy Stupid
    Nov 29, 2012 - 1:09AM

    Quotation from the official Hamood ur Rehman commission report which has never been disclosed by Pakistan on the 1971 war.
    “The excesses committed by the Pakistani Army fall into the following categories:-
    a) Excessive use of force and fire power in Dacca during the night of the 25th and 26th of March 1971 when the military operation was launched.
    b) Senseless and wanton arson and killings in the countryside during the course of the “sweeping operations” following the military action.
    c) Killing of intellectuals and professionals like doctors, engineers, etc and burying them in mass graves not only during early phases of the military action but also during the critical days of the war in December 1971.
    d) Killing of Bengali Officers and men of the units of the East Bengal Regiment, East Pakistan Rifles and the East Pakistan Police Force in the process of disarming them, or on pretence of quelling their rebellion.
    e) Killing of East Pakistani civilian officers, businessmen and industrialists, or their mysterious disappearance from their homes by or at the instance of Army Officers performing Martial Law duties.
    f) Raping of a large number of East Pakistani women by the officers and men of the Pakistan army as a deliberate act of revenge, retaliation and torture.
    g) Deliberate killing of members of the Hindu minority.”

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  • Jat
    Nov 29, 2012 - 1:47AM

    @jahandad: “pak army in 1971 comprised of more than 40% bangalis”

    Oh my God, mother of all lies !! Yeh nahi sudharenge.

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  • Jat
    Nov 29, 2012 - 2:00AM

    @Akhter: Shouting and frothing at mouth. I tell everyone who will listen, nothing hurts them more than truth.

    Since I began this discussion, watch how neatly they sidestep the mention of Operation Gibraltar, Operation Topaz and the Kargil treachery (I don’t remember the code name for this).

    And people of Bangladesh probably will be feeling guilty for all the “atrocities” they as the victims are supposed to have inflicted on these butchers.

    Do you have any idea how silly you sound, any idea at all ?

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  • Jat
    Nov 29, 2012 - 2:09AM

    @Akhter: @Jat:
    “Was your silent majority antagonized when 166 innocent civilians were being killed ?”
    For your information YES we were very upset and angry

    You seem more like shouting minority of one…

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  • Asok
    Nov 29, 2012 - 2:34AM

    The title of your article doesn’t match its contents. Try harder next time.

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  • Asif Butt
    Nov 29, 2012 - 5:24AM

    @ All Indians

    Why dont you guys give up all this poking . This blog has turned out to be a Indo-Pak history truth finder rather than a place for Bengalis & Pakistanis to face each other and the truth.

    Did Bangladesh cease to exist or prosper regardless of what Pakistan did to it ?
    Will Pakistan cease to exist if Indians ( & Bangladeshis) keep poking us and blaming & cursing us ?
    Will India be effected in any way if the Indians were to totally let go of pointing fingers at Pakistan and abusing them ?

    Please do things which make a difference , in a better way. Just like this article in ET. ATLEAST the article has tried to touch a topic which is very sour and regret-full.

    And if you guys , you Indian NEIGHBOURS of ours cant have such sort of patience or goodwill , then why bother debate with us . Why bother argue with us so called deniers of the truth?

    I mean you Indians are a fairly educated and culturally self-contained nation. If you consider someone “ignorant” and “ill-literate” then isnt it actually foolish to argue with a fool ?

    Or maybe this things go centuries back. Maybe the interesting statistics here are that FUNDAMENTALY the Hindu Indians love to look down upon the Muslim Pakistanis and vice versa.

    Regarding this news article/column ,

    I am a Pakistani , and what I know is that Pakistan wasnt born properly. We as the people yet have to see a Pakistan which is actually run by us. But we have never been so close to this target as we are now.

    Whatever our military dictators did was wrong. All should be tried in a court of law. All injustice must be dealt with . An apology is a very small thing. I personally believed that based on “MUTUALLY ESTABLISHED FACTS” , we should apologize as many times as desired by the victims.

    Please dont argue or fight. RESOLVE these issues. We should have zero friction in between us. The Europeans and Americans enjoy living and traveling amongst each other. We 3rd world heirs are still stuck up with this kind of post traumatic social stress.

    All the prosperous nations which are super powers enjoy regional stability and relations.

    It is very irrational for even a country like India to assume that one day it will become a global super power without having made peace with Pakistan.

    Similarly its very premature for us Pakistanis to think that we can print and publish whatever we like in our social-studies/history books. If we want to prosper and find peace , we better learn something from people like the Japanese.Recommend

  • Jai
    Nov 29, 2012 - 5:27AM

    @Faraz:
    India has a treaty with Nepal to allow Nepalis. No such treaty exists with Bangladesh. You seem to think illegally migrating to India is a universal human right.

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  • Anwar
    Nov 29, 2012 - 6:14AM

    Congratulations so you are now card carding intellectual. Bashing Pakistan is the these intellectuals.

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  • Akhter
    Nov 29, 2012 - 1:48PM

    @Philip:
    Perhaps you should also read the research presented by notable Oxford Professor Dr Sarmila Bose, perhaps this might help you understand that there is more than one side to this story.

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  • Aries
    Nov 29, 2012 - 2:36PM

    This is a most sensible article. It is time to draw a line on the events of 1971 but we can only move forward if it is recognised that there were two ‘ genocides’ and two sets of victims.

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  • Lala Gee
    Nov 29, 2012 - 4:33PM

    (Dear Moderator: It is my fourth attempt since this after noon. You seem to be allergic to the comments presenting Pakistan case in an effective manner, while allowing all the derogatory insulting remarks of the Indian trolls. I feel like you work for India and not for ET and Pakistan.)

    @Its (still) Econonmy Stupid:

    “@Lala Gee:
    Lalaji: I checked the link you cited. Those are from UNCHR with a disclaimer : This is not a UNHCR publication.”

    Didn’t I mention in my comment that these reports are by Human Rights Watch Organization, the most reputable international human rights watchdog. Would UNHCR host the reports from some less reliable sources on their website. There are some reports on their website which showing India’s progress in certain areas, and those reports also bear the same disclaimer.

    “Writer is father of the victim.”

    And also owns “Human Rights Watch” and “Amnesty International”. Decency is certainly a rare commodity with Indians.

    “Second report everyone lives in fear is about Kashmir on both sides and not unique to India. This work is supported by a private Lindenberg Foundation with no information on source of funds.Do you have any other peer reviewed articles or more reputable source? If not than it is about time for you to concede that your research skills are very poor. Take a time out to learn new skills or stop quoting information from Journal of Timbuktu.”

    Moral integrity was never as low as above. This report deals with the atrocities committed by Indian forces in Indian Occupied Kashmir. There are hundreds of reports available on the internet exposing Indian brutalities and machinations by such prestigious organizations like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Pew Research Center, UN, and many more globally respected organizations. I could mention all those links here, but ET wouldn’t publish due to sheer length. Read this report printed in your own newspaper Times of India “On religious discrimination, India next only to Iraq”. This is another report by an Indian writer, Ramananda Sengupta, “Why Bangladesh hates India”. Here is a brief from this report:

    “After our independence, India has time and again treated us with condescension and disdain. You have threatened to cut off our water sources. You have repeatedly accused us of harbouring anti-Indian rebels on our soil. Your border forces regularly attack our villages, rape our women. You accuse us of flooding India with illegal immigrants. And while mouthing platitudes about a free market, you deny us the right to sell our goods in India without tariffs. We might be poor, but we are Bengalis, we have some self-respect,”

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  • Lala Gee
    Nov 29, 2012 - 5:04PM

    (Dear Moderator: It is my fourth attempt since this after noon. You seem to be allergic to the comments presenting Pakistan case in an effective manner, while allowing all the derogatory insulting remarks of the Indian trolls. I feel like you work for India and not for ET and Pakistan.)

    @mahakaalchakra:

    “@Lala Gee: You are exibit A of denialistan….. Nothing, repeat NOTHING can compare what Punjabi-Muslim Pakistan army did to its fellow citizens in 1971. There was a genocide of 3 million East Pakistanis and rape of 300,000 innocent females form 6 to 60 in 1971 by the Punjabi-Muslim army”

    I usually do not respond to your posts for obvious reasons, the kind of malice you show for Pakistan and the venom of hate you spit in your comments – which is a characteristic trait of most Indian Hindus, the reason Jinnah was persuaded to demand Pakistan – but since many Indian commentators also mentioned those numbers in their comments, which have no solid basis or proofs, it is time to bust false Indian propaganda.

    First you tried to mislead by calling Pakistan Army “Punjabi-Muslim Army” which is a clear indication of your malicious intentions. Pakistan Army is Pakistan Army and Punjab has its due share according to its population. Second, world has witnessed much bigger tragedies than the Indian sponsored tragedy of East Pakistan. Read this “Twentieth Century Atlas – Death Tolls” and compare the numbers with other human tragedies listed on this page, and you will know where it stands on the global map.

    Also view this “table of all casualties”, and if you cannot read small text then download it and view it in some image viewer using zoom. There are couple of interesting statistics in this table. Pakistani sources put the death toll of rebels to 30,000, while other sources put the death toll from 300,000 (Time Magazine) to 1-3 million (figure claimed by Sheikh Mujeeb and Indians). The same sources also mention killing of 150,000-500,000 non-Bengalis by Mukti Bahini. Regarding refugees influx, out of 10 million refugees, 8.2-9.5 million were Bengali Hindus who created the pretext for Indian invasions. Remember these are all estimates, nothing concrete, no mass graves discovered as yet as is in the case of Bosnia and Indian Occupied Kashmir, no real count of rapes backed by evidence – Pakistan claim that those rapes were committed by Mukti Bahini rebels and Indians wearing Pak army uniforms to turn the public against Pak army, a very old trick from the basket of Chankiya.

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  • Jat
    Nov 29, 2012 - 6:34PM

    @Lala Gee: ok ok we get your point.

    The number of innocent civilians killed by Pakistan Army was much less, not in millions but in tens of thousands. Agreed
    The number of Bangladeshi women raped by Pakistan Army was much less, not in millions, but in tens of thousand. Agreed
    The number of Bangladeshi intellectuals, university professors, doctors, lawyers, journalists assassinated by Pakistan Army was much less, not in tens of thousands, just a few thousand. Agreed
    The number of Pakistan Army soldiers and officers who lined up and surrendered to the Indian Army was much less, not 93,000 but only 9300. Agreed

    Please keep up the wonderful work you have been doing for your country and your people. Hope you continue in the same fashion for some more time. Some more of the same is all we need, believe me.

    I am happy to see you are proud of your handiwork.

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  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Nov 29, 2012 - 7:33PM

    @Jat:

    watch how neatly they sidestep the
    mention of Operation Gibraltar….

    Congrats brother! You were successful in mentioning the “Operation Gibraltar” on ET. On every previous occasion I mentioned it in a comment, it was censored by mods.
    I hope one day mods will accept it when I state the fact that Narendra Modi has sizable Muslim vote bank on Gujarat.

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  • Aries
    Nov 29, 2012 - 7:42PM

    @ Rakhi Sawant: Has the Congress Party apologised to the Sikhs for the horror that was unleashed upon them after Mrs.Gandhi’s assassination? Did Bal Thackeray and Shiv Sena apologise to the Muslims of Bombay for the carnage following the vandalisation of the Ayodhya Mosque in 1992? Has Narendar Modi and the BJP apologised to the Muslims of Gujarat?
    Prove me wrong.

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  • Jat
    Nov 29, 2012 - 8:04PM

    @Yuri Kondratyuk: @Jat:
    watch how neatly they sidestep the
    mention of Operation Gibraltar….
    Congrats brother! You were successful in mentioning the “Operation Gibraltar” on ET. On every previous occasion I mentioned it in a comment, it was censored by mods.

    Satyamev Jayate (English: Truth Alone Prevails)

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  • Enlightened
    Nov 29, 2012 - 8:17PM

    @Lala Gee:
    @Jat:
    I am totally amazed at the stamina you both possess in countering each other. ET, please make arrangement for a truce immediately as they both are very close of starting a war between the two countries.

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  • Jat
    Nov 29, 2012 - 9:18PM

    @Enlightened: What are you smoking ? Havne’t had an interaction with this person for some days. And read my last two posts above this one, and take a long cooling puff…

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  • Enlightened
    Nov 29, 2012 - 10:07PM

    @Jat:
    Sorry, I missed your last comment which is just the right reply and a shut up call to Lala Gee who surely has a one track mind and is a true Pakistani full of denials.

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  • Jat
    Nov 29, 2012 - 11:16PM

    @Enlightened: Thats ok. And now that you have pointed it out, I did allow my BP to shoot up. Thanks.

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  • Akhter
    Nov 29, 2012 - 11:41PM

    @Enlightened:
    “a shut up call to Lala Gee who surely has a one track mind and is a true Pakistani full of denials.”
    I am not at all surprised you have chosen such a Name for your self,
    Delusional would be a better name or perhaps Arrogant Supremacist! seeing as you automatically assume that you have all the answers and can never be wrong!

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  • Akhter
    Nov 29, 2012 - 11:48PM

    @Yuri Kondratyuk:
    Satyamev Jayate (English: Truth Alone Prevails)

    Yeah right! except if your a (Pakistan hating) Indian you can make any number of stories to delude yourselves.

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  • Kaalchakra
    Nov 30, 2012 - 3:16AM

    A word, a gesture, a glance can transport us closer to the truth than can tons of aimlessly spilled ink. Someone put his finger right on the root of the problem – ‘Mukti-Bania,”

    Another poster suggested that some Pakistani army officers issued orders to systematically eliminate Hindus and Bengali Muslim intellectuals. This charge stands totally debunked. Sarmila Bose (a relative of Ayesha Jalal) has proven that the instructions in question referred to people who were internally referred by the army as “members of the rebellious generation’, not to any ethnic or religious group. It just goes to show how small mischief with words can cause so much damage to our collective memory of shared events.

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  • Oshkara!
    Nov 30, 2012 - 9:28AM

    Pakistan should first apologize to India for partition and India should apologize British for Freedom Movement. Better yet, Britain should apologize to the whole world for colonialism. Also Columbus, Gengez Khan, Halaku, Alexander, Nadir Shah, Russia, China, U.S. and all world powers should start apologize to all such people and pay-up!

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  • Akhter
    Nov 30, 2012 - 3:08PM

    “Pakistan should first apologize to India for partition and India should apologize British for Freedom Movement. Better yet, Britain should apologize to the whole world for colonialism. Also Columbus, Gengez Khan, Halaku, Alexander, Nadir Shah, Russia, China, U.S. and all world powers should start apologize to all such people and pay-up!”

    My sentiments exactly! Way to go!

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  • mahakaalchakra
    Dec 1, 2012 - 8:33AM

    Laa Gee you cliamed, “Pakistan Army is Pakistan Army and Punjab has its due share according to its population.”

    Let me rebutt your logic right here. I was clearly refering to the Punjabi-Mulsim Pakistani army who committed genocide in 1971 in East Pakistan.

    Did you know that the population of East Pakistan in 1971 was more than 55% of the entire population of Pakistan, East and West.

    If East Pakistan was 55% of the entire Pakistan then Pakistani Punjab must have been no more than half of the polulation of Pakistan. So the share of Punajb could not have been more than 25% of the Pakistan army in 1971.

    This was not true then in 1971 and is not true even in 2012. Only recently Pakistan had started recruiting Baloch in the regular army (exceptions were Baloch brought up in Punjab).

    I noticed that no one is taker of your above post. You have just one aim, deflect all blames, real or imagine, to USA, Isreal or India (Yahood or Hindood). I have always said that India is not perfect but its army would not do what Punjabi-Muslim army did to its floow citizens in 1971. I had opportunity to talk to many Pathans and Bengalis and they all said same thing what I am claiming. Atleast pre-1971 Pathans were not religiously motivated to eliminate Hindus from East Pakistan. I have many Muslim friends from Pakistan and most of them agree to the genocide.

    The figure was given by Bangladesh government and supported many other internations agency who had their representatives in East Pakistan.

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  • Cynical
    Dec 1, 2012 - 6:47PM

    @Oshkara!
    @Akhter

    ‘Pakistan should first apologize to India for partition and India should apologize British for Freedom Movement. Better yet, Britain should apologize to the whole world for colonialism. Also Columbus, Gengez Khan, Halaku, Alexander, Nadir Shah, Russia, China, U.S. and all world powers should start apologize to all such people and pay-up!’

    I am not sure if you are serious, or sarcastic.Hope it is the later.
    At the bottom of this entire clamour for apologies; lies, a feeling of subjugation, a sense of loss of empowerment, being a witness to erosion of indigenous culture and tradition, enduring loss of life and property, suffering loss of or lack of religious freedom and so on. To sum up, it’s a feeling of humiliation at the hands of ‘The other’. How much of it is real or imaginary, perceived or imposed can be the subject of a valid argument. But it is there; and its not going to disappear from the collective memory of the people who feel violated at some point of history and nurse the injury to date, until it is addressed in an objective manner. Academicians, educators, cultural groups can contribute a lot in that direction. Very few are fortunate to have a holistic perspective on issues of historical conflicts.
    As for the rest, a few kind words from the descendants or successors of the past regimes, that recognise the injustice done and empathise with the victims will go a long way in healing the wounds.
    They are not asking for a pay-up for sure.

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  • KPK.GB.KHI
    Dec 1, 2012 - 11:40PM

    Seperarion due to the divorce is the actual remedy of the ills of a relationship, get over it. You got what you wanted__ the Freedom.

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  • Awais
    Dec 16, 2012 - 12:27PM

    @Rakhi Sawant:
    Here u r my dear. I was reading ur incessant rants on the article but wondered what an Indian like u have to say about Kashmir. U have exposed the fallacy of ur ur argument against Pakistan. This is an argument from an Indian whose country has failed in Kasmir notwithstaning its achievements in rest of the country, though these are also argued against by a lot of people around the world.

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