‘Hindu girls being forcibly kept in Sindh madrassas’

Published: March 15, 2012

Lawmakers discuss protection of minorities during National Assembly session.

ISLAMABAD: Hindu girls are being forcibly kept in various madrassas in Sindh and are later forced to marry Muslims, Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) MNA Dr Azra Fazl told the National Assembly on Thursday. She was speaking on issue of Faryal Shah (Rinkle Kumari) who was allegedly abducted and forced to marry and convert to Islam earlier this month in Sindh.

While speaking on the point of order, Fazl said that Hindus are facing a lot of challenges in Sindh. She stressed the need for legislation to protect minority rights and to end forced conversions.

Fazl, who is also the sister of President Asif Ali Zardari, highlighted the issue in the parliament at a time when her brother received a sharply-worded letter from California Congressman Brad Sherman urging him to take action to ensure the return of Faryal to her family, pursuant to reports that she had been abducted with the help of a PPP lawmaker.

Nafeesa Shah, another MNA from Sindh also endorsed her colleague’s idea and said that the parliament should introduce legislation on “forced conversions”.  Various non-Muslims were being forced to accept Islam as being reported by the media, she observed.

“Protection of the minorities should be ensured as enshrined in the Constitution,” Shah added.

Majority of lawmakers including Lal Chand and Mehish Kumar representing minorities in the parliament expressed concerns over the kidnapping and forced conversions of Hindu girls. They said it was the right of every person to accept any religion but nobody can be forced in this regard.

MNA Justice (retd) Fakhar-un-Nisa stressed on the implementation of laws when it comes to solve the issue of minorities. “Minorities’ rights should be protected at all cost.”

Giving a policy statement on floor of the House, Minister of State for Interfaith Harmony and Minorities Affairs Akram Masih Gill said that the present government has taken unprecedented steps for the uplift and empowerment of minorities. He said these include fixation of five percent quota in government jobs and declaration of August 11 as the Minorities Day.

“Parliament should enact a law to avoid forced conversions,” he remarked.

Special Assistant to the Prime Minister Shehnaz Wazir Ali said that under the 18th Amendment, four seats have been reserved for minorities in the Upper House.

“During the last few years several laws have been enacted including Human Rights Commission for the protection of the rights of women and minorities.”

Forced Islamiat lessons for minorities

Pakistan Muslim League–Nawaz (PML-N) MNA Dr Araish Kumar added to the conversation by saying that the minorities were being forced to read Islamic studies in Pakistan.

“Our students are being forced to read subject Islamiat in the government schools,” Kumar said adding, “If they refuse to study Islamic studies, they are struck off by the school administration.”

Reader Comments (106)

  • Talha
    Mar 15, 2012 - 4:59PM

    This is so shameful and enraging.

    It would be wonderful if Muslims stood up for minorities but this is wishful thinking, never in their collective history have they stood up for the marginalised. This is barring what Hadhrat Mohammed (SAW) did in his lifetime of course, after him, its all been down hill.

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  • Uza Syed
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:00PM

    There’s a way —— Government of India should summon Pakistani representaive in Delhi and let him know and have him convey to Islamabad that, this is just not on—–it can’t be termed meddling in our affairs—–after all we have been doing so in the past whenever we felt injustices being done over there.

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  • abdul basit
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:04PM

    Finally,the truth comes out.A MNA has stood up in the National assembly and admitted what every minority in pakistan already knew.Good on this MNA for having the guts to say a fact which the everyone in pakistan tries to push under the carpet and pretend it doesn’t happpen.
    Non-muslim girls have been kidnapped and forced to change their religions for a long time in pakistan but no one ever said a word about it.

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  • Mumbai Dude
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:04PM

    I thank some of the secular minded MPs in Pakistan who are raising the voice of repressed Hindus and Christians in the country. There is no reason why should non-muslims be taught Islamiat!!! Its a shame that even 4% minorities are not being allowed to live. I hope good times return to the minorities in Pakistan. But unless Pak becomes SECULAR I fear this may never come.

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  • Syed Hasan Abbas
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:05PM

    I dont think that majority in Pakistan would ever allow such legislations to be effective! And those who dont agree, would have to wait a little and see mass protests in support of the forcefully converted people…

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  • Mar 15, 2012 - 5:06PM

    ET are you following a specific agenda?? most of ur reporting seems too biased

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  • lubna khan
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:07PM

    Why are non-muslims forced to study islamiat in school? it is unbelievable what we do to our minorities in pakistan an then we scream that the west is persecuting muslims.We should take a look at what we put our non-muslim population through.our islamiat books are filled with tales of the glorious and brave way in which the statues and idols were broken and smashed by our hereos.now why would you make a hindu student study this unless your intention was to humiliate him/her.why should they have to put up with our beliefs when theirs are different.

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  • bolly-tv
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:10PM

    very bad….

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  • Mar 15, 2012 - 5:12PM

    Hallelujah… Apart from producing abusers, extremists and terrorists; Madrassas are now serving the minorities. Commendable indeed. Recommend

  • shahid mehmood
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:13PM

    Non-Muslims have long been treated as inferior humans by our public.We have always treated them as second class citizens,inferior to us in every way and the sad thing is that no one ever stood up for their rights,whoever tries to demand equal rights for non-muslims is treated as a traitor,a RAW or CIA agent.This misplaced mindset of being better than and superior to non-muslims has destroyed our society.
    Our deliberate mistreatment has forced millions of hindus,christians,parsis,sikhs and bahais to flee from pakistan to the extent that only 3% of our population is now non-muslim.we scream and wail that america discriminates against the muslims there but the fact is that america and the europeans treat their muslim population a million times better than how we treat our non-muslim population.

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  • Mar 15, 2012 - 5:16PM

    My country has failed me!!

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  • faraz
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:19PM

    The pir involved in Rinkle’s case is PPP member. Who is PPP trying to fool?

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  • shoaib bajwa
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:29PM

    We don’t drink form the same glass that Hindus drink from,we don’t eat from the same plate that non-muslims eat from.And this is something that happens in our elite universities where the richest and supposedly most liberal kids come to study.When we consider non-muslims so inferior,so beneath us that we can’t eat and drink in the same utensils as them,then what are we even talking about human rights situation for non-muslims in pakistan.

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  • Ahmed HM
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:36PM

    Lets wait for more NEWS to come. Time will tell how much the news has been exaggerated by ET.
    I am quite surprised that there are Madrasas in Sindh. I travelled to Eastern Sindh, and to the North. Interestingly, I could not even see one in Sukkhur. I am not saying there are no Madrassas at all, I think people of Lower Punjab and Sindh have less interest towards Islam. There is a great love for Islam in upper Punjab, Hazara, KP, Balochistan and in Karachi also. Recommend

  • Ahmed HM
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:37PM

    @Pakistan politics:
    Of course they are. Anyone can tell. :)

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  • abc
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:39PM

    Its clear the girl has been forced .from all the evidance.even the world know.the girl is in extreme pressure right now and will be later on because of so-called Mullahs.Now Pakistan should shows to the world that there is a Law exist in this country.NOT THE LAWS OF MULLAHS.whatever they wanna do they can do.Its a welcoming message and gesture to the world by Fazl.Salute to Fazl who speaks in front to these fanatics.I would says all the men politician are afraid in speaking against them.Even they know wrong happened to that teengae girl.But no one has guts to say.

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  • Chulbul Pandey
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:41PM

    @Pakistan politics: ET are you following a specific agenda?? most of ur reporting seems too biased
    You make an interesting point. Would you care to elaborate on how ET’s reporting is biased? Forced conversions is a very serious issue. Reporting such an issue an environment like Pakistan is anything but biased. I would call it brave journalism.

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  • Faraz
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:42PM

    Where are the chest thumping Mullahs and their supporters now? Surely, anything against Mullah is a conspiracy and ET is biased too (very obvious pun intended). Bashing liberals, who are liberals? We want peace and tolerance in our society and respect for everybody, we don’t want Hindu girls being kidnapped and forced to convert…and we have no agenda against Islam as it OUR religion too as much as it yours!!! Asking for tolerance and respect…. is that asking for too much Mullah and supporters??

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  • vasan
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:42PM

    Will the parties concerned come clean on Rinkle Kumari’s case, at least now,

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  • hopelessPeople
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:50PM

    @Pakistan politics: The % of hindus has reduced from 10 to meager 1 today and you are still saying a hidden agenda. This has been going on for so long but finally people and media are talking about it. If something is rotting in your house, you don’t close your nose.

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  • Pakistaniat
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:53PM

    @Pakistan politics:
    You are absolutely right…

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  • BlackJack
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:53PM

    All those who were celebrating Rinkle’s admission to voluntary conversion seem to have lost their voices. Put yourselves in the shoes of parents whose children are being forced to grow up in these conditions; is there an ounce of humanity left in you people?

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  • Ahmed HM
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:55PM

    @Faraz:
    Stop panicking. Nothing too serious has happened. This is just a mere statement from an MNA, nothing more. Wait till something new comes out.

    There is no concept of forced conversions in Islam, Islam was never spread for the sword (and I can debate on you for that, yeah ! ).

    @ Chulbul Pandey

    Please do note that reporting something which has not been confirmed or not true doesn’t come into the circle of brave journalism. Its yellow journalism and if you do wish to check forced conversions, do check ET’s articles before Rinkel Kumari gave her interview. ET was so focused on this issue that had wrongly labelled an article with the word ‘forced conversion’ whereas this wasn’t the article’s inside material.

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  • Its (still) the Economy Stupid
    Mar 15, 2012 - 5:58PM

    History teaches us that all dynasties fell when they started doing cruel things to its minorities. Same thing may happen to Islam if it does not protect minorities. Let’s accept the fact that whole world would never be Muslim and if it happened life will be very boring. Second all homogeneous religious society do not progress well as they do not bring new ideas and out of sudden every one starts competing to show he or she is more Muslim than the other fellow Muslims. How Pakistanies would react if major western countries like France started forcing all young girls of Pakistani origin to be forcibly converted to Christianity. Similarly Pakistanis lost moral right to criticize France’s religious curb on Burqa or hizab etc.
    It is also known that force converting of young girl happened during Muslim rule of India and that is the reason child marriages started as a solution to abduction and conversion. It appears that Muslim society has learned nothing in last three hundred years. If Pakistan’s want to be member of global village than it has to overhaul certain fundamental flaws of the society. First of all stop using religion in the Pakistani Passport All the laws will not help until unless society changes.

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  • karim
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:00PM

    yet another dark phase Madrassas. shame

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  • Jan
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:03PM

    @BlackJack:
    I dont understand you guys… when the girl herself said that she was not forced to convert to Islam, you did not accept it because you have already decided what has happened without being there.. now an MNA has raised a concern and you have jumped to a conclusion… whether she was forced or not, it will decided by SC… so my indian friends.. take a chill pill…

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  • Islamist
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:04PM

    Last time there was a news about forced conversion, it was later proved incorrect by the statement of the apparently converted girl herself!
    PLEASE do not print such baseless news before confirming it OR it only proves the agenda that you are trying to drive here!

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  • Ahmed HM
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:06PM

    @BlackJack:
    Funny comment from you, her interview was enough. We have not lost our voices, as we are not the ones exaggerating events for our personal agendas.

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  • Zulaikha
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:07PM

    Every “one” is forcibly kept in Pakistan. No one even ethnic minorities are living in misrable situation. Forceful abduction, killings, forceful conversion and forceful merger…this all started with forceful removal of true democracy and forceful imposition of permanent military rule.

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  • MUSLIM PAKISTANI
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:11PM

    whats wrong with ET? why is ET wasting space reporting baseless propaganda, rinkal kumari already clarified SHE WAS NOT FORCEFULLY CONVERTED. Whats wrong with Fazl? This too will no doubt resurface as baseless accusation unfounded and untrue, honestly, im disappointed and disgusted by this anti madrassah and islam rhetoric Recommend

  • some one
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:15PM

    The hindus (and Christians) of sindh (and punjab also) are the King Makers. One ex hindu girl converted to Islam out of her own free will, but the community has created Havoc propaganda about forced conversions, in the press and parliament. Minorities are the rulers of the rulers of Pakistan.

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  • Chulbul Pandey
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:21PM

    @Ahmed HM
    Ahmed Ji, in my opinion, The title is well within the content of the article. I, for one, thought that the quotations around the title made it abundantly clear that some individual was being quoted. Did I miss something?
    Besides, I have seen those knee-jerk reactions – “ET is biased”, “ET is a sell-out with a specific agenda” etc etc from time to time. I never understood what people meant by it. All ET is doing is reporting even if the news might be uncomfortable for some to hear. That’s what prompted me to term it as “brave Journalism”.
    Sincerely

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  • Umer
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:26PM

    how suddenly things started in Sindh? so now all provinces having problems. ?

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  • Azim
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:26PM

    White Portion of Pakistan Flag represents minority – when Pakistan came into existence we had close to 20% people from other religious beliefs and this country was made also for them.

    I feel mullahs and narrow minded pakistani’s want to turn it to full green, and also think they are earning Jannat by such acts – they are totally mistaken and are fools.

    This in no way Islam tells us what we as a Muslim society are doing, nor does this falls in-line with why Pakistan was created.

    So shame on these sick people/society and no wonder why majority of good Muslims are finding it tough to justify that this a a religion of tolerance and peace.

    In sum if majority does not specks and condemns these stupid beliefs and acts, then they do not have any excuse to complain. Where are all the good, honest, peaceful Islamic scholars missing, or is it that I am wrong and Pakistan is now full our in-tolerant, violent, short-sided and ignorant people?

    Still Pakistan Zindabad.

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  • Pakistani
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:33PM

    @Uza Syed:
    And Pakistani govt should call indian ambassadr for the attrocities in Kashmir… get real and mind your own business….

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  • Mar 15, 2012 - 6:37PM

    @Chulbul Pandey:
    please provide us some evidence of forced conversion? the case of faryal is in the court and that girl has repeatedly said she converted on her own will, if u say they threatened her to not speak then also give some evidence of it

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  • Chulbul Pandey
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:47PM

    @MUSLIM PAKISTANI:
    Here are a few facts for you:
    1. September 11 was perpetrated by Islamic terrorist. It was not a Jewish conspiracy.
    2. Pakistani Cricket players were not innocent. They took money for spot fixing. It was not a West conspiracy.
    3. Osama was killed by Americans in Abbottabad. He was not dead already. Americans did not stage it.
    4. India is not plotting against Pakistan.
    5. Rinkle Kumari was not forcefully converted. She accepted Islam on her own will.

    Let’s see which one of the statements listed above is true according to you? It is amazing to see how you are so dead sure about Rinkle’s conversion but there is a big Yahood Hanood conspiracy behind everything else.

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  • BlackJack
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:48PM

    @Ahmed HM:
    @Jan
    Dear Pak friends, for a nation that excels in whipping out baseless conspiracy theories at the drop of a hat, the simple addition of 1+1=2 seems to be too difficult. Let’s keep aside the telling MNA testimony for a second; On one hand, you have your own (both muslim and minority) compatriots telling you in these comments above that forced conversions and institutionalized bias are facts of life in Pakistan; on the other, the extensive ‘backup’ and delay in producing Rinkle in court and the obvious trauma that her family is going through from being forcibly kept away from her flesh and blood. I am coming to no conclusions that are not borne out by these details available to all of us.

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  • Chulbul Pandey
    Mar 15, 2012 - 6:56PM

    @Pakistan politics:
    You might be missing the point here, Mr. Pakistan Politics. You blamed ET for being biased. I simply asked you to elaborate on your accusation. But here you are, asking me for proof in Rinkle Kumari’s case. With due respect, ET reported the statement of an elected MNA, nothing more. Please state the reason why you think the reporting is biased.
    Sincerely!

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  • Jan
    Mar 15, 2012 - 7:25PM

    @BlackJack:
    My response to your detailed analysis is very simple and I hope you understand it this time….. IF THE VICTIM SAYS SHE IS NOT FORCED IN PUBLIC AND IN FRONT OF THE COURT, YOU ASSUME THAT SHE HAS BEEN FORCED… AND IF AN MNA RAISES A SIMILAR POINT, YOU CRY FOUL…. IF THE SAME MNA HAD SAID THERE IS NO FORCED CONVERSIONS, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE AGREED WITH IT… BECAUSE YOU GUYS HAVE ALREADY DECIDED REGARDLESS…

    whether she is forced or not, let the SC decide… and believe me.. the whole pakistani nation will support her if she has been forced. AND finally, you say things as if such things dont exist in India and you guys are pure… ET has not allowed me to post some of the extracts from the news published in India on forced coversions.. but just google it and this time hopefully (although I doubt it) you will see the dirt in your backyard…

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  • kdp
    Mar 15, 2012 - 7:28PM

    @Azim:
    I agree. I would not like to live in a homogeneous society where everybody looks like me dresses like me, speaks the same language and follow the same religion and its ritual. I cannot imagine a society whose young children has never met or even seen a Christian, Hindu, Parsi Jew or a Jain. Living in a heterogeneous society plays a very important role in developing tolerance towards other religion or culture. Migration to the USA made Business and social interactions possible among Indians and Pakistani (Hindus and Muslims) and as a result lot of our people realized that most of the opinions held by us for each other while living in our respective countries were wrong and developed by propaganda indulged in and promoted by our politicians and religious leaders

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  • Mar 15, 2012 - 7:42PM

    This is baseless accusation by the secularists… These girls are not forced. We have asked them many times… but they just look at us with tears in their eyes..but say nothing.. their silence is their affirmation…

    Thats it.. end of discussion… dont ask anything… Recommend

  • amit
    Mar 15, 2012 - 7:43PM

    @Jan:
    you say things as if such things dont exist in India and you guys are pure\
    nice joke ,thats y muslim population growing in india and pakistan hindus/sikh population come to 20 to 2-2.5 %.please provide link if you have . we are oldest religion and civilization in the world..i am only not talking only hindus i am talking whole dharmic religion.if you have link post it .Recommend

  • Babloo
    Mar 15, 2012 - 7:50PM

    . At Partition the W Pakistan was purged almost clean of Indian Religionists ( Hindu, Sikh, Jains ). Their number came down from 5.57 million in 1941 to 0.65 million in 1951, and their proportion in the population declined from 19.7 percent to 1.6 percent; it has remained around that figure since then. These figures are from 1941 and 1951 census of regions that make up West Pakistan.

    So from 20% of population to 1-2% in 65 years. The remaining traces too would disappear under the weight of state sponsored discriminatory laws and approved practices.

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  • Insaniyat
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:00PM

    @Jan

    the whole pakistani nation will support her if she has been forced.

    How? The same way as you ‘supported’ Salman Taseer?

    Allah Khair Karey.

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  • Jan
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:00PM

    @amit:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/…/orissa-violence-india-christianity-hinduism
    http://www.compassdirect.org/english/country/india/2125

    I hope ET allows these links to be posted… there are many others….

    Amit – is this a conspiracy…

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  • usmanx
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:07PM

    Do these know that MILLIONS of muslims live comfortably in non-muslim countries? What if they were faced to convert.

    Disgusted.Recommend

  • Rizwan Lone
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:13PM

    A note of caution to my Indian brothers – If you turn the plight of Pakistani Hindus into an Indian cause, your good intentions will never come to fruition. If India is viewed as a “guardian” of Pakistan’s Hindus, then I assure you, no one in Pakistan will give a damn about whats happening to our Hindu compatriots. So please, keep in mind that Indian intervention will just cause more problems, and it will not, as you hope, speed up the process of reforms.

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  • Uza Syed
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:14PM

    @Pakistani:

    This is my business and I love Pakistan much too much; I can’t sit back and let a few crazy people destroy my country—might is not always right and must not be used to subjugate a people. And if some of you hink it should then the only way is that the mightier must prevail over the weaker and get him see the reality, in this case India viz a viz Pakistan (Government to government) — and such incidents would stop and we will learn to live peacefully with our minorities.

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  • Rizwan Lone
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:17PM

    @Babloo:
    I hope you realize that the Pakistan of 1948, and 1970 is very different from today. The reason Pakistan’s minority population as a percentage decreased so drastically isn’t because of some unspoken holocaust – its because a huge chunk of those minorities were in East Pakistan, and they became Bangladeshis in 1971.

    West Pakistan never had a large number of Hindus. So after 1971, the percentages plummeted because the 1948-1970 percentages include present-day Bangladesh, and the post-71 statistics only include (West) Pakistan.

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  • Chulbul Pandey
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:21PM

    @Rizwan Lone:
    Rizwan Mian, a point well made. However, your president Zardari Saheb received a sharp-worded letter about forced conversions from USA, not India. I wonder where you got the idea that India was trying to intervene in this case?

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  • BLing BLing
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:24PM

    Those who dare to stand up for the rights of non-Muslims in Pakistan are killed, theirs deaths celebrated and their killed glorified. Yes, I am talking about Salman Taseer here.

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  • Vishal
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:27PM

    @Rizwan,Dear U can Compare west Pakistan’s Minorities Population of 1951 amd Present Pakistan and Compare.

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  • Rizwan Lone
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:27PM

    @Babloo:

    I wonder if you guys realize what factors may have led to the drastic decline of Pakistani Hindus. Was it just intolerance? Or was it the fact that the overwhelming majority of Pakistani Hindus lived within 200 miles of the Indian border, and so it was easier for them to leave than say, Muslims in Andhra Pradesh, which is several hundred miles from Pakistan. The bulk of India’s Muslims are in AP, and UP, which is smack dab in the middle of Northern India, far far away from Pakistan. Lets see the statistics of Muslim percentages in East Punjab, Rajasthan, and Gujurat, which are near the border. The decline there mirrors the decline in Pakistan because of the proximity of the border. Coincidentally, the parts of Pakistan farthest from the border (Baluchistan, FATA), had lower declines in minority populations as a percentage. The exception in Pakistan is Tharparkar district in Sindh, which was, and still is, a majority Hindu district. The exception in India is Gurdaspur district.

    Yes, clearly intolerance did play a role in both countries, but proximity to the border has a clear correlation to the decline in numbers on both sides of the border.

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  • unbeliever
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:34PM

    @Jan:

    there is no denying the fact sir, that we are not a perfect society. rather we have a world ahead to learn tolerance, and respect the minorities.
    that said, i must tell you, a wrong done on our part does not give you the right to do the same to your minorities. we acknowledge our weakness, and would really like to hear from you in how can we help our minorities to progress.

    also we have a new govt in UP, which took oath today.

    http://www.mid-day.com/news/2012/mar/150312-Akhilesh-Yadav-becomes-UP-youngest-Chief-Minister.htm

    that we have 20% muslim in up, and were given proportionate representation, what about you sir.

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  • 66
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:42PM

    @Rizwan Lone:
    Its rather late for an indian intervention now. If India wanted to intervene it should have done it in the past. With barely any hindus left in Pakistan there is nothing left for India to do. More importantly, these people are pakistani nationals and should be looked after by Pakistan. India has no role in this.

    @Jan:
    Also India having problems of conversion doesnt make it right in Pakistan. This is a very stupid argument. Also the facts on the ground are completely different in Pakistan and India. In India most minority populations have increased where as in Pakistan its the otherway round. No one has mentioned that India doesnt have problems. India has a ton of communal problems but there are enough people who are fighting for the minorities and most of them are Hindu. None of this condones wrong acts, communal violence and forced conversions.

    In Pakistan minorities have either left or were converted by force or converted through their own free will. I think most people are well aware of what exactly happened to the minorities. Some introspection can go a long way in preventing the repetition of previous mistakes.

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  • unbeliever
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:42PM

    @Rizwan Lone:

    kudos for presenting an unbiased presentation of the facts. i really agree with you, however, you are a bit wrong.
    because the second highest population of muslim is in west bengal which houses as many as twice the muslims as compared to AP

    however on the whole a very good fact analysis.

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  • Pakistani Agnostic
    Mar 15, 2012 - 8:50PM

    We need to learn tolerance from India. Period.
    And similarly, Hindus from India need to stop over-quoting the wrong fact that Non-Muslims in 1947 were more than the non-Muslims in Pakistan today.
    In 1947 till 1971,we had Bangladesh where there were a lot of Hindus.

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  • Abdul Qayyum Bhatti
    Mar 15, 2012 - 9:27PM

    Everyone have a right to chose a religion of their choice. They are free either to adopt a religion or not. It should be investigated either what the lawmakers are voicing for is true. It should be investigated thoroughly and if someone is involved in this un-Islamic act they should be punished.
    It might happen that someone want to make happy their minority voters. There have been “Faryal Shah Controversy” few days back and her case is under proceeding in Supreme Court of Pakistan. This might be an attempt to influence the Supreme Court judgement regarding “Faryal Shah” case.

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  • Mirza
    Mar 15, 2012 - 9:31PM

    I am ashamed to even talk to minority friends. The truth is when Bengalis, Bloch, Shia and other smaller groups cannot get equal rights in Pakistan and live in peace how can Hindu have any hope? All our upbringing and education (if you call it) is based upon our superiority and hatred toward kafirs. It is not easy to live in Pakistan for any sect let alone Hindus.

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  • Babloo
    Mar 15, 2012 - 9:50PM

    @Rizwan, you are wrong. Please go and review the 1941 census of the districts that make W Pakistan today. Hindus made a greater population of the people of W. Pakistan in 1941 than Hindus did in the population of East Pakistan districts.
    It was only in the 1948-1971 period, that Hindus in East Pakistan were greater percentage of the population than in West Pakistan because the religious cleansing did not happen in East Pakistan in 1947 to the extent it happened all over W Pakistan, from Sindh to Sialkot.

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  • Jan
    Mar 15, 2012 - 9:50PM

    @66:
    It’s funny

    Please read the threads carefully again….. U put your house in order and let us put our house in order….. People living in house of glass should not throw stones at others….. Period!!!! So don’t brag on about rights of minorities when u don’t follow the same

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  • Babloo
    Mar 15, 2012 - 9:56PM

    @Rizwan, your argument of proximity to border is only partly right. Gujrat, Rajasthan in India that border Pakistan, continue to have very large ( more than 10% ) of Muslim population. In contrast Sindh, which is not a border state, which had 15-20% of Hindus in W Pakistan , now has 2% or so. The nature of the state, the ideology that motivated its formation have more to do with decimation of Indic religions ( Hindu, Sikh, Jain, Buddhist ) in W Pakistan than any other single factor.

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  • Dr.A.K.Tewari
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:00PM

    The news is very thought provoking to me .Though we are not in a position to help the minorities in Pakistan in this regard ,perhaps that is the cost we are paying of being in secular state . Himalyan blunder on the part of our leaders in the past .
    Any way ….JISKA KOI NAHI USKA TO KHUDA HAI YAARO ?
    Pakistan is also paying…….?

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  • Mar 15, 2012 - 10:10PM

    We people look everything on the basis of religion,my country good/your country bad,never with the concept,good,justice and compassion.To be honest , it is not about Dr Lata or Rinkal Kumari/Faryal.It is about simple right of the parent and their pain at loss of daughters,one must read about “PINJAR’ by Amiritha Pritam, .It is pathos,one feels at the tragedy.You can not think,oh,she is not my child,who died,the bell tolls for whom?,it tolls for us.Why did Hon.Bhaganwan Das escape to India?Raw,Isreal/jew/USa?Why did the poed Sahir Ludyanwee wound up in Mumbai,why does Adnan sami lives in Mumbai?It can not be all Raw/Jew?USA doing?Pl,reflect and do the right thing,sooner than later you will run out of excuses,in my view it is already late for minority.Have a nice day,do not lose your humanity this cheap,than you will be left with little.Ponder over this.

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  • Cynical
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:19PM

    I have made up my mind a long time ago, that Islam and Muslims are god’s greatest gift to mankind.the best.Everything that a Muslim does is watched,controled and guided by Allah the great.What it means is that it is impossible for a Muslim to do anything evil.Allah is so wise and powerfull too, that he won’t allow such a thing to happen.

    So these news and noise that we here every day about discrimination to minorities is sheer propaganda.
    As I said, I have made up my mind. Don’t confuse me with facts.

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  • AN
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:23PM

    PPP is in power. Why don’t they do something about it? Rather than giving media statements, bring some legislation.Recommend

  • Babloo
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:25PM

    Delhi oiffers a good example and a contrast of how the partition riots were handled In Punjab, on both sides of the border there were vicious riots. However, the Indian leaders, did the best to contain them. Nehru, Gandhi personally toured and confronted rioters at great physical risk to themselves. Gandhi paid the ultimate price with his life. When millions of Punjabis and other Hindus poured into Delhi from across the border , there was great demand for retaliatory riots in Delhi, which were mostly contained very fast, thanks to the efforts of Nehru and Gandhi. Thats the reason why 2 millions Muslims live in Delhi alone ! Thats not very different from the entire poipulation of Hindus in Pakistan today. On the other hand, Mr Jinnah, the architect of the Lahore resolution and his speech, arguing that Muslims and Hindus cannot live in the same state, had weak moral authority to stop the rioting which was just following the logic of the politics that he had practiced since 1941 , including the call for the ‘day of direct action’ in 1946 that killed 10,000 innocents in and around Calcutta in a single day.

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  • ZYX
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:26PM

    Someone who recites the kalima and doesn’t do it out of a genuine sense of conviction hardly qualifies as a Muslim and I don’t think the OVERWHELMING majority in the Muslim world wishes to convert people this way. So if anybody is forcibly converting people, they’re violating common sense in addition to Islamic laws. That being said, ET ran the ‘Forced Conversions’ headline repeatedly and didn’t issue an apology or correction after Faryal made her statement in court that she wasn’t forced. After such clearly evidence, I think a lot of the liberals should have quieted down but instead they’ve come up with new conspiracy theories about threatening people standing around her and a police escort that wanted this 18 year old to convert. Its really quite unbelievable because anybody who’s been to interior Sindh knows that Islam is the furthest thing from the minds of the police, the politicians and the bureaucrats. It sounds totally incredulous that Sindh police are acting like the Taliban…. I think the liberals are frustrated and they’ve got a habit of ganging up where they see strength in numbers..right or wrong is usually immaterial Recommend

  • 66
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:26PM

    @Jan:
    All I can say is that Pakistan has been doing a great job at looking after its house especially when it comes to minorities.

    India in my opinion is doing a pretty poor job but somehow the system has worked and thankfully is only getting better. Pakistan is just on a downward spiral but Pakistanis will defend their country with senseless nationalistic ideals and condone crimes with the logic that it happens in other countries as well.

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  • ZYX
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:29PM

    There is nothing wrong with making Islamiat a mandatory part of the curriculum even for non-Muslims. They live in a Muslim country and they should understand our values and the ideology that shapes the country that they live in. You can’t live in France and demand to not be taught about French culture, language and values….they won’t even let you walk around with open symbols of your faith. Why does anybody expect Pakistan to make such exceptions? We already allow Christians and Hindus a great deal of autonomy in that they can even be judged according to their own religious rules if they so choose….in France or most of the rest of Europe such a thing would be unthinkable.

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  • ANON
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:30PM

    California Congressman Brad Sherman urging him to take action to ensure the return of Faryal to her family, pursuant to reports that she had been abducted with the help of a PPP lawmaker.

    Interesting! Who are they to tell us? Our parliamentarians need some input from external forces to do something. It didn’t occur to them that it is their job to protect people. Besides Frayal will be given to her parents only if our court approves it and not some random congressman.
    Nonetheless if this report is true then Sindh Govt should take action against these madrassahs.

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  • Sana
    Mar 15, 2012 - 10:33PM

    @ET
    Good going ET. Now that Rinkal Kumari case is not turning our to be a case of forced conversion, you want to create another controversy. Still if it is true then Sindh Govt should do something about it.Recommend

  • sandeep limaye
    Mar 15, 2012 - 11:16PM

    hats off to ET and all dear pakistani muslim brothers
    all of you who raised voice for downtroddens of your country. may lord shiva makes your country prosperous and best country
    bhagwan aapke desh ki saakh ko aapki dhak se jyada takatwar banaye

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  • BRUISED INDIAN
    Mar 15, 2012 - 11:25PM

    @Uza Syed: Strongly disagree with you! Hindus of Pakistan are Pakistanis, they are your internal matter and no one should interfere.
    It’s true that Pakistan raises its voice for Muslims and that should not be the case. None of us are thekedars of Hindus of Pakistan or Muslims of India! Indian establishment nor its people wear faith / religion / beliefs on their sleeves and I firmly put it forth that we wont interfere.

    @Indians commenting on Pakistani Hindus to settle in India… get a damn life! First settle the BPL Indians in India and then talk about your so called brethern across the border.

    @ Pakistani Politics, grow up!

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  • Giri
    Mar 15, 2012 - 11:51PM

    Conversions are cool for those who are already converted. Not so cool for those who are about to be converted, like Hindus. It is like going through an operation, after that everything is fine. I hope 2% hindus realise and convert, so we hindus in india have to stop hearing such news. We are not crying on so many (18%)who converted, so why should we be for just 2%. They can atleast breath safely.

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  • Mar 15, 2012 - 11:52PM

    @Cynical:
    and Babloo,I find you two guys reasoning,one satirically and the other with reasoned logic,do not get any where.People like Sara pretend that a minor girl after abduction,surrounded by people whom she has not known, asolated from her family can exercise freedom and have freedom,how naive people can get! It is frightening to say the least,it is so even if one is not fearful,but it can be argued with people who are not taking side.What one is forgetting,the big picture,in India which is such a large country,with so many mixed,inter caste and inter religious marriage,these few cases do not really alter the big picture,what it does is some how project a alarming and poor impression,so it is in the best interest of Pakistan to conduct an enquiry which is not a bit tainted,so it must bend backward,if need be,for its own sake, to to do the right thing and not do whitewash which will only reinforce bad impression of Pakistan,I could not be more clear and be frank,Hindus in India all ready know it is too late for the minority anymore. Whatever India tries to do or say,even including clear case of Mumbai massacre do not have no result,Pakistan only digs its heel,many people in India have given up,they are now waiting for the other shoe to drop,so that they can shut the door,I think Pakistan has just about done as much harm and annoyance to India,what it is now engaged is doing utmost damage to herself. I’m sure some day it will come to bite you,if not already,you are just blind to it,it is always this way,the sufferer is last to know,think about it,what shocks me,why the politicians and movers and shakers of Pakistan who run the show do not see it,they think they are spiting Hindus and India,nothing is more from the fact,they are hurting themself the most.Good day.

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  • Babloo
    Mar 16, 2012 - 12:13AM

    @Hariharmani, Thanks for your comments. These are difficult issues to grapple with and often there are no easy solutions and we do not know how things will look in anathor 100 years and how the logic of Karma will play itself out..

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  • Hafeez
    Mar 16, 2012 - 12:57AM

    If this is true, then we are certifiable.

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  • KMR Overseas
    Mar 16, 2012 - 1:12AM

    Conversions under duress HARAAM !!!!!!!!!!!

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  • Attif Abbas
    Mar 16, 2012 - 1:28AM

    Minorities in Pakistan always voted for PPP.Now all the parties against them are from PPP ie, there MNA ,federal govt., provincial govt.But shame on these minorities leader that they are protesting against Pakistan instead of real culprits like sindhi govt,zardari etc.

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  • Kumaran
    Mar 16, 2012 - 2:10AM

    It is in Pakistan’s interest that she preserves diversity (of people, languages and thought that comes along with it).

    you prosper with that diversity. Look at America (best epitomizes diversity and prosperity that comes along with it).

    Look at Canada, India to name a few.
    Difference of thoughts, ideas, faith is not to be subdued. It is to be highlighted if one wants to sustain ones democracy and prosper in 21st century.

    Whatever you do will be your decision bro Pakistan. Just do not succumb to you biggest nemesis – your ignorance.

    I am glad that there are still voices of reason in Pakistan. These are also the nation builders and visionaries so I rejoice that you have them.

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  • Peer Sain
    Mar 16, 2012 - 2:19AM

    @Uza Syed:
    And Government of India has conducted 100s of thousands of pogroms in which they killed hundreds and thousands of Muslims since partition. Have we raised a voice? Never. We let them do whatever they want with the Muslims in India. Now why India should interfere in our affairs?

    In sharp contrast Hindus in Pakistan have never faced such pogroms. Never any riots against them. They have never been discriminated against. I see a lot of Hindus enjoying life much better than Muslims in Karachi and the whole of Sindh.

    These stray incidents should not make us take extreme actions. No. Hindus should have all the facilities and they do. In fact they have reserved seats and have double voting rights too. The report was found wanting, it lacked research.

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  • Balochi liberal
    Mar 16, 2012 - 3:22AM

    Religion is evil. It has encouraged more bad out of people than good. World should abolish all form of religious practice. God, Allah or Bhagwan do not need people to follow “religion” to “believe” in them.

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  • Roshni
    Mar 16, 2012 - 3:28AM

    Government should take action first that , why PPP MNA Mian Abdul Haq (Mian Mithelo) slapped Rinkle Kumari many times in Mir Pur Mathelo Court in front of Judge and many peoples and beaten her voilently in the police station on 24th , and 25th of February to change her statement.

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  • Roshni
    Mar 16, 2012 - 3:31AM

    Girl is innocent, please save her life ……….

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  • ASingh Janjua
    Mar 16, 2012 - 7:30AM

    forceful conversions are shame to any society

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  • UJK
    Mar 16, 2012 - 7:46AM

    I can not believe that this is happening in Pakistan!

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  • Mar 16, 2012 - 7:54AM

    This is an insight into the Mughal era where people claimed forced conversions didn’t happen.

    If these kind of things happen in today’s modern World, with all the free media, imagine how it was 300 or 400 years ago.

    The only way to save the Hindus of Pakistan is to move them to J&K by India. India should offer them permanent residence and move them to J&K. Since, J&K is considered a part of Pakistan, Pakistan should not have a problem with this.

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  • kasim.lahore
    Mar 16, 2012 - 7:55AM

    @Rizwan Lone:
    Agree with you.

    Bangladesh is the third country in the World with highest Hindu population followed by India and Nepal.

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  • abdulazeez
    Mar 16, 2012 - 9:20AM

    Do brain mapping test of Rinkle Kumari ,the truth will come out.

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  • Yuri Kondratyuk
    Mar 16, 2012 - 9:58AM

    @shoaib bajwa:

    We don’t drink form the same glass
    that Hindus drink from,we don’t eat
    from the same plate that non-muslims
    eat from.And this is something that
    happens in our elite universities
    where the richest and supposedly most
    liberal kids come to study

    Surprising.
    I being a Hindu have shared my food with both brahmins, dalits and everyone in between. Caste based discrimination is fast becoming obscure in modern India. Even in theory, the Hindu caste system is based on the bent of mind than birth (no one being considered superior to other based on that).

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  • zalim singh
    Mar 16, 2012 - 10:45AM

    Madrassas are religious institutions. right? Dont they get defiled with the activities like these?

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  • raw is war
    Mar 16, 2012 - 12:30PM

    and u people get outraged when a quran is burned. Wont your god get defamed by these activities, or they are sanctioned in your religion like”what the right hand posseses”?

    Muslims cry for extra respect and privilages in areas where they are in minority and they treat their minorities like garbage in Islamic nations. Does your religion have any ethics or decency?

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  • Zeta
    Mar 16, 2012 - 4:54PM

    *ET is mouthpiece of NYT. What do you expect.
    They spread misinformations about non muslims students studying islamiyat. either they are ignorant or workign on specific agenda. everybody knows it that non muslims in Pakistan are to study ETHICS in place of compulsory Islamiyat *

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  • seeking-for-justice
    Mar 16, 2012 - 5:17PM

    *The shelter-provider – where hindu / muslims societies culture are being clashed should oppose these kind of acts not to promote under the name of Islam. In every country specially Pak where ppl like to live within their communities & borders and ppl where this incident has happened are strongly believes in this as seen through media.
    If case won’t go with the minority’s side- It seems minorities will not continue living withing this country where they feel it can be happen to their sisters as well.
    So Government should not trun off its eyes from this case. and try hard to safe the right of minorities by taking a serious notice against the culprits – and make this country to live for all kind of communities & societies. This will help Pak Government to stabilize his rep to the international zone which has been recently mentioned by US in letter today.*Recommend

  • Hakeem
    Mar 16, 2012 - 7:11PM

    Apart of these reports and claims, no one can favour “forced conversion”. Minorities should enjoy their due rights.Recommend

  • Mar 16, 2012 - 7:22PM

    ……….a simple question to the sectarian and communal minded saints: does creativity, innovation, and technology, which are determine the present and future of the world have any attributable religion? If not, then let us get out of this discussion and devote our energies to to be relevant in the modern world instead of becoming becoming the dustbin of history?

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  • Babloo
    Mar 17, 2012 - 4:35AM

    The minorities of W Pakistan, have voted with their feet. Those who could flee have fled for their lives. Those who could not flee, have mostly converted under the cruel weight of state sanctioned ( minorities cannot hold highest offices of the land as per the constitution of Pakistan ) oppression. Thats the only reason why % of minorities , from 20-25% of population in 1941 , in the districts that make W Pakistan, is now down to 3%. Can anyone show me any country in the world, where minorities , who made 20-25% of the population are now down to 2-3 %.

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  • Zaid Hamid the 2nd.
    Mar 17, 2012 - 1:44PM

    Who says we have forcibly made them stay in Madarassa? We merely put the gun on their head and requested them to stay. This is in keeping with the highest traditions of Pakistan

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  • indian
    Mar 17, 2012 - 1:55PM

    disgusting.

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  • Ajaya K Dutt
    Mar 18, 2012 - 9:19AM

    @Rizwan Lone:
    Hindus were more than 10% in 1947 and now about 2%. Check your facts please.

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  • kamran
    Mar 18, 2012 - 11:23AM

    @Peer Sain:
    But how many Muslims cross the borders into Pakistan, unlike Hindus of Pakistan who are migrating every month. Muslims just love proving themselves being victims, they can never answer where have the Arab Christians and Jews disappeared, or what they are doind in Sudan or Indonesia, what is the assaryian genocide or the armenian genocide.
    hope it will serve you, hypocrites at best.

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  • harkol
    Mar 18, 2012 - 4:34PM

    @Rizwan: Please quote some references from where you get a an idea that most Hindus of Pakistan were in Bangladesh. My readings suggest that cumulative Hindu population in West-Pakistan districts were close to 20%, which reduced to less than 2% by 2000.

    I agree India shouldn’t do anything about Hindu cause in Pakistan, except offer right to immigration to India to Pakistani & Bangladeshi Hindus. India is secular, thus not a homeland for Hindus, but there is no doubt they are persecuted in Pakistan, and are victims of a political decision taken 60+ years ago by our ancestors. So, they should be given an option to choose to retain their religion but shift nations, alternatively perhaps they should convert to Islam so that they won’t be discriminated against.

    This also shows clearly why India can never let Kashmir become an Islamic nation. The pattern of Hindu massacres that has been going on in Kashmir for over 500 years will only get accentuated.

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  • Fauzia Mussarat
    Mar 19, 2012 - 9:35AM

    Totally unacceptable!!

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  • Apr 20, 2012 - 8:14AM

    I feel sorry for Zahid he does not have any info. Would you ever visited Sindh so you might know that interior is dominated by Hindus rather than Muslims, so who is the minority there… and thus a minority never be able to capture a large number of girsl . more info here
    http://syedowais.blogspot.com/2012/04/faryal-aisha-dr-lata-happy-ending.html

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