Why speak for the Ahmadis?

Published: February 6, 2012

The writer is a lawyer and partner at Ijaz and Ijaz Co in Lahore saroop.ijaz@tribune.com.pk

The capacity to feel and display moral outrage is a fair indicator of aliveness of a society. In the reaction to a recent episode involving a nosy, pretentious and holier-than-thou morning programme anchor we had a mildly heartening demonstration that we are not completely dead yet. The primary argument was the invasion of privacy; however there was also the element of ‘selective outrage’ being put on show by that anchor. For example picking, on a public park instead of a more ‘chic’ outlet, where probably she and her cameras would not have been allowed, etc. There may be a neat bit of irony here, around about the same time, there were calls by the Jamaat-ud-Dawa and the Jamaat-i-Islami and others for the shutting down of an Ahmadi place of worship (I will be in breach of law if I say ‘mosque’) in Rawalpindi. I do not want to create a false binary here and I am glad that the snooping dame is unemployed now, and commend the people who played their part in bringing that about. Nevertheless, I find it astounding that the happenings in Rawalpindi escaped the notice of our liberal ‘intelligentsia’ almost completely, at least in mainstream public discourse; hence furnishing a near identical example of partially what the television anchor was guilty of. The alternate explanation is grimmer, that being that it was not for failure to notice, but rather fear.

A fragile defence of the silence on the issue could be along the lines that it is not really my cause or you know one cannot speak for everybody or on every issue, etc. That is ridiculous and cowardly; you cannot let a moral challenge go when it is menacingly looking you in the eye. The discussion on the persecution of Ahmadis has a sobering effect, even on some of the most firebrand, outspoken activists. The discussion is subdued, with often a tedious effort to search for neutral, inoffensive words since the matter is ‘sensitive’.

I am not an Ahmadi and do not have any in-depth knowledge of their belief, and do not particularly care much about the specifics of anyone’s theological leaning. Yet, the Ahmadi question is becoming the real test of fighting oppression and tyranny in Pakistan. The cavalier manner in which bigoted, hateful and malicious remarks can be made against the Ahmadis and go unchallenged is unbelievable and unimaginable in regards to any other community. I think some of you will agree with me in so far as my belief that our core conflict is a struggle between theocratic fascism and civilisation. If that is the case, with the anti-Ahmadi sentiment we are staring right into the gun barrel of this phenomenon. A society cannot persecute and witch-hunt one community, while being tolerant or progressive in any basic sense of these words. In our society, the clichéd and over cited words of Martin Niemoller of “First they came…” are throbbingly and piercingly animate.

Another irksome thing about the Ahmadi issue is the stratagem employed by brave people driven by good faith to speak against this atrocity. The defensive argument is often rooted in the ostensibly liberal and tolerant vision of “Jinnah’s Pakistan” and constitutional or religious interpretations. Historical and textual analysis has its place, yet to condemn hoarse, lurid calls for blood of fellow citizens should not require the invocation of a dead man’s perspective or a piddling subsection, one should know it in one’s water. The laws that declare Ahmadis as non-Muslims and enact prohibition on calling their places of worship as ‘mosques’ etc. are brutal and medieval. The argument given by at least one court on the constitutionality of these laws is that religious symbols and terms are like a trademark. No one needs to go to law school to recognise the fallacy here. It is necessary to make as much fuss about these laws as is possible, and do so consistently. My knowledge of religion is perfunctory, yet nobody should care about what one feels compelled to call oneself, it becomes especially tyrannical when done by the State. At some level, the question is not religious at all; it is a question of basic social decency.

Religious and clerical bullying and panic is not something new to us, but the magnitude of it is going exponentially up in the garb of a pseudo-political movement with a name indicative of a sheer exhaustion of imagination and also sinisterly disingenuous, ‘Difa-i-Pakistan’. The name is designed to play upon our oldest national confusion between Islam and Pakistan. Jacobo Timerman is an Argentine journalist who wrote a riveting account of his imprisonment and torture by the authorities in his memoirs “Prisoner without a name, Cell without a number”. He was told by those holding him in custody: “Argentina has three main enemies: Karl Marx, because he tried to destroy the Christian concept of society; Sigmund Freud, because he tried to destroy the Christian concept of the family; and Albert Einstein, because he tried to destroy the Christian concept of time and space.”

The coverage given to the fanatical displays by the media and the support both tacit and overt by mainstream political parties highlights how depressingly easy it is for our society to degenerate into prehistoric barbarism. I am all for their freedom to say idiotic and even hateful things to huge gatherings, provided they are not provocation to murder. However, one is entitled to be disappointed at the deference being extended to them, in my opinion they should be exposed with ridicule and contempt, and done so publicly and unequivocally.

The State has a responsibility to restrain these fanatical, terrorist outfits from spewing venom against fellow citizens and so do the free media and the liberals. Every one of us (including myself) who has obtained a passport has signed the declaration that the Ahmadi prophet is an imposter and a liar; we can begin by refusing to do that. It would be shameful if we decide to sit on the sideline for the cause of Ahmadis in Rawalpindi or elsewhere.

Published in The Express Tribune, February 7th, 2012. 

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Reader Comments (190)

  • Abida
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:27PM

    Thankyou Saroop Ejaz and eTribune for being brave in the face of adversity as far as the “Ahmadiyya issue” is concerned.Recommend

  • Minhal
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:27PM

    Don’t have much to say about the article but the word you used in your last paragraph is incorrect, instead of prophet, the correct term is messiah.

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  • Sarfraz
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:33PM

    “I am not an Ahmadi and do not have any in-depth knowledge of their belief, and do not particularly care much about the specifics of anyone’s theological leaning” (sic)

    and then

    “The laws that declare Ahmadis as non-Muslims and enact prohibition on calling their places of worship as ‘mosques’ etc. are brutal and medieval.”(sic)

    If you don’t know about something and don’t care much about the specifics of their theological learning then what makes you declare the laws against them as being brutal and medieval???

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  • Feb 6, 2012 - 11:35PM

    Thank you!

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  • FS gaints
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:36PM

    Preaching to the choir. This issue needs to be raised in urdu press which cater to the real masses that advocate this discrimination rather than the minor English speaking readers. The day we get a peaceful resolution of Blasphemy and Ahmedi Discrimination issue, we will turn a new page in the history of Pakistan.

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  • Rehan
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:39PM

    I am muslim and totally disagreed with ahamadi beliefs, but still think that the society is not fair with them even as a minority, Dr. Abdussalam is the best example of it who is a noble prize winner but i did not find much material about him in text books or even in media as well.

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  • John B
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:40PM

    It is time for PAK to wake up from her drunkenness.

    “declaration that the Ahmadi prophet is an imposter and a liar”- can anyone imagine how painful it would have been for the Ahmadi’s to renounce what they believe in, lie, and sign on that passport form in order for them to get a passport to get out of the country?

    PAK born out of feeling persecuted by other religion began to do the same with her second constitution amendment.

    As I said before several times, repeal the second amendment and while you are feeling guilty in this context also repeal the blasphemy law.

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  • NotAHypocrite!
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:40PM

    Lets be honest here. Even the liberals acknowledge that they are a minority. The majority of the country is conservative and was always naturally so otherwise 7.5 million Muslims wouldn’t have bothered to migrate to Pakistan if they wanted to live in just ‘another’ secular state. In this sense the liberals need to accept that this perceived notion that for Pakistan to be progressive they have to remove laws that declare Qadiyanis non-muslim is wishful thinking. Despite the various Islamic sects in Pakistan and the differences between them, most sects (shias and sunnis and everythin in between) are united on one thing that Qadiyanis are not Muslims because their belief system is soo wildly different from the basic fundamentals of Islam. If we declare Qadiyanis to be Muslims then we might as well also consider Christians to be within the realm of Islam, because we have such a similar faith structure. Infact ironically, unlike Qadiyanis who believe Christ has died and is buried in Kashmir, both Muslims and Christians believe in the Second Coming of Christ. The difference between Islam and Qadiyanis is screaming obvious, it’s hypocrisy to say otherwise.
    Also don’t blame extremists, it was the author’s favourite party the PPP that passed the Anti-Qadiyani law.

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  • Chulbul Pandey
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:44PM

    What an insight.

    If I were to guess, there would be far less comments on this thread, compared to the news on ET about India purchasing fighter planes from France. Sums up the mood and direction of the masses in Pakistan, doesn’t it!

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  • Munir Khan
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:44PM

    Thank you Saroop Ijaz for taking a stand on an issue that many would shy away from and avoid sticking their head above the parapet.Let’s hope that your call for decency and a more equitable society for all of Pakistan’s citizens including the 5 million Ahmadis is taken up by wider civil society in Pakistan!

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  • Chulbul Pandey
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:48PM

    @Sarfraz: If you don’t know about something and don’t care much about the specifics of their theological learning then what makes you declare the laws against them as being brutal and medieval???

    Sarfraz mian, it’s very self explanatory. Any law that’s oppressive in nature to any specific community is brutal and medieval, don’t you think?

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  • Cautious
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:48PM

    You really need to lose the mentality that says “I am holier than you and am willing to kill you to prove it”. If you believe in God and believe in an afterlife then why not let God be the judge and mind your own business?

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  • Imtiaz
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:50PM

    Many thanks Mr. Ijaz for being the voice of justice and humanity, may Allah bless you for this effort. In the Holy Quran Allah says (to the effect of) if you see wrong doing, fix it, if you cannot do that, raise concern against it, and if you cannot even do that then condemn it in your heart, and that is the weakest form of your belief. What astounds me is that the people of (so-called) Islamic Republic are so scared of the Islamic scholarship (or their nuisance value) that they would rather stay quiet at any injustice, so long as it does not directly affect them, than to comply with instructions in the Holy Quran. Everyone knows the scarifces of Ahmadis in the formation of Pakistan, especially in the wake of muslim scholarship being against the formation of Pakistan. Mr. Dard an Ahmadi missionary in UK persuaded Quaid to come back to sub-continent and continue with the mission, on the instruction of the then Khalifa of the Ahmadiyya Jamat. Ch. Zafrulla Khan was the first Foriegn Minister of Pakistan, he contested the Kashmir cause in the UN. Furqan force to fight in Kashmir was supported by Ahmadiyya Jamat. Only army general to ever give a life during a war in the histroy of Pakistan was an Ahmadi. These are just to name a few historical records. Despite all injustices and attrocities committed against the Jamat, there is never a single incidence where Ahmadis ever retaliated, although everyone has a right of self-defence. Is there absolutely no moral courage left in this country.

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  • Acorn Guts
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:51PM

    Very well written, it is true that one cannot stick one’s neck too far when it comes to speaking of the Ahmadiyya community (be it in favor or opposition, it is simply a taboo) but it’s time the issue is tackled head-on. I am an Ahmadi and I support the view that this religious bullying needs to stop, it is the lives and sentiments of humans we are talking about!

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  • Parvez
    Feb 6, 2012 - 11:59PM

    This topic is so necessary and the way you have laid out your argument is brilliant.
    The things being done and being allowed to be done in the name of religion can only lead to a bad end. If we will not correct our mistakes providence will intervene and then events will take on a life of their own with disastrous results.

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  • Abbas from the US
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:02AM

    Very well spoken with the clearest of conscience.The struggle against fascism is a long drawn out affair, and it is clearly a responsiblity of the intelligenstia to focus on these moral issues and furthermore it is a moral responsiblity of all good Pakistanis to speak out against the hounding of Ahmedi and their places of worship.
    No I am not an Ahmedi however this does not absolve me of the responsiblity to treat everyone who has a preference to be recognized with a Muslim identity to acknowledge him or her as such.

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  • Umer
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:04AM

    @Sarfraz:

    what makes you declare the laws
    against them as being brutal and
    medieval???

    Simple, religious persecution in 21st century is considered brutal and medieval; no matter who is being persecuted. How did this fact pass you by? Never heard of Universal Declaration of Human Rights to which Pakistan is a signatory?

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  • Ali Tanoli
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:18AM

    @Imtiaz
    Are u sure Ahmedis pressed Jinnah to come to india and persued the dream of seprate land
    i guess it was Iqbal who even refused to attend confrence let by Ahmedis in kashmir around
    1930 and i think it was iqbal dream and he knew that no body can do this task mullahs were
    against the creation of seprate land and some time i think it was not a wise decission to breaking united india we gain less and lost lot.Recommend

  • AHMED BALOCH
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:23AM

    So there should be some one who will stand up and speak about humanity and human values….Ijaz history will remember you..so keep it up…we are all with you….and every day more and more voices will join this sentiment….Every one have full right to follow what ever religion he or she may choose to follow….in my opinion Ahmedies have full right to call themselves Muslims….It will be up to All Mighty ALLAH on the day of judgment to decide about right and wrong…..

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  • Ali Wali
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:26AM

    Ahmadis face discrimination by state or establishment of Pakistan mainly in the form of anti Ahmadi legislation, not sure if ordinary Pakistanis hate them. As well as religious terrorism and mass murders are concerned, Shia community is by far the biggest victim of this menace from last four decades, and establishment failed to provide basic human ‘right to live’ to the Shia community.Recommend

  • Syed
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:27AM

    Great argument Ijaz. It was the Ahmadis who contributed to Jinnah that led to Pakistan. Tragic irony that the enemies of Pakistan (mullahs) are now the country’s thakedars!

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 12:28AM

    Pray Pakistan can heed Saroop Ijaz, lest our society degenerates into prehistoric barbarism!!!

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  • AA Choudhary
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:35AM

    @FS gaints:
    It is important that people like Saroop Ijaz continue to write in ET. I appreciate his efforts and courage to do so. It is common knowledge that Urdu media in Pakistan is in cahoots with the religious parties. In my opinion F S gaints should suggest to the Urdu media to stand for equal rights for the minorities and srart writing about the injustices being committed in the name of Islam. Also preaching to the friars is good too. May be some friars would pick up courage to become active.

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 12:58AM

    Ignorance of the illiterate is somewhat understandable. The bias of the corrupt press in Pakistan is nauseating. The literate minority and prostitue politicians are intoxicated by the exuberance of their bigotry. The Mullahs are a disgrace to humanity.

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  • faraz
    Feb 7, 2012 - 1:04AM

    Followers of every religion believe that their set of beliefs are correct. There is no other reason for adhering to a religion. People don’t follow a religion knowing that it is false. For every person, his religion is the “true” religion. So the entire debate between religions and sects is pretty futile. If someone’s religion isn’t harming others’ lives or property, there shouldn’t be an issue.

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  • Arindom
    Feb 7, 2012 - 1:09AM

    @Sarfraz:
    Answer to your question : “If you don’t know about something and don’t care much about the specifics of their theological learning then what makes you declare the laws against them as being brutal and medieval?”

    Is

    Because he is Secular. Secularism means respecting and protecting all Religions – not just of the one you know the theology and teachings of.

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  • dasmir
    Feb 7, 2012 - 1:12AM

    Ahmadis are muslims.they pray in mosque and follow qura,n and sunnat.Recommend

  • Maestro96
    Feb 7, 2012 - 1:23AM

    A very brave article. Good one you Saroop.

    -Salute-

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  • Maestro96
    Feb 7, 2012 - 1:35AM

    Sarfraz doesn’t get it. Enlightened thought has escaped most in the Islamic republic.

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  • Imtiaz
    Feb 7, 2012 - 1:47AM

    @Ali Tanoli: Yes Sir, I am very certain of my facts as I have first hand information from the actual sources. No one is claiming the glory of Dr. Iqbal’s dream of Pakistan. It was during the various conferences that Quaid got extremely disappointed and left for UK is what I am talking about. As for Dr. Iqbal’s aversions to attending meetings with Ahmadis is concerned, it was a personal matter, as more than half of his family was, and still is, Ahmadi. I am sure this will be news to you….

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 1:58AM

    A brave article. There are many issues that we speak about and make noise about. The recent morning show debacle being a case in point. But even those of us who feel so strongly, who agree with the words written above, find it hard to speak up in an atmosphere such as this. The idea should be simple, if you believe in standing up and speaking freely of what you think is right, then you should allow the same courtesy to the other, the minority group. What’s the point in getting your message “agreed to” by force. Hats off to Mr Ijaz, there is no point in getting inside the nitty gritty of the religious debate on this or any other issue. The point is to move beyond that and allow a just and safe place for all in Pakistan. As was the vision.

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  • Malik
    Feb 7, 2012 - 2:20AM

    Thank you for your brave courage..

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  • Mansoor
    Feb 7, 2012 - 2:20AM

    Ijaz you might be right ,what you have said above, but because you said yourself,that you do not have depth knowledge of ahmedis. I am not ahemdis but i was one of like yourself ,almost “advocating” for them. Than i investigated in depth, i went to their whole included “IJTAMAH” in london and went in their few “mosques”. one of the reasons ,i ended my support for them was, that they say”love for all ,hate for none” but it is a big lie like their other statments, even in their own “religion” they consider other all Muslims , a Non muslim. there are many other reasons which i can share in private ,because i do not intend to create more problems for them,because i still believe that religion is everyones own business. thats it , but they should not claim, hate for none,

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 2:33AM

    Excellent article.
    I think one of the ways to take it forward is for people to have the NOT to declare their religion on the ID documents.

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  • Salman Ahmad
    Feb 7, 2012 - 2:39AM

    I salute you Mr. Ijaz for highlighting this issue and uncovering the real face of our society.

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  • Spud
    Feb 7, 2012 - 2:52AM

    @Sarfraz: One does not have to know about the beliefs of anyone to know that that person is wronged and is being persecuted. If Ahmadis are not proselytising their beliefs what right has anyone got to harrass them. Where I live I am surrounded by Christians but still am allowed to go and worship in my temple without anyone obstructing. This is the hallmark of a civilised society. Therefore many Muslims are eager to leave their staunchly Muslim but oppressive societies and live in the western countries and that is a fct.

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  • An Ahmadi
    Feb 7, 2012 - 4:00AM

    I am an Ahmadi and I believe that Pakistan will one day become the nation that Jinnan envisioned.

    Pakistan Zindabad.

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 4:26AM

    Let us see how many turn their ears towards this clarion call. A more than mammoth surge is needed to comply with what my dearest writer pointed out.

    The protest against the said rally in Rawalpindi was 0.001 % as compared to the shouts in MayaKhan case.

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  • faraz
    Feb 7, 2012 - 4:37AM

    Followers of every religion believe that their set of beliefs is correct. There is no other reason for adhering to a religion. People don’t follow a religion knowing that it is false. For every person, his religion is the “true” religion. So the entire debate between religions and sects is pretty futile. If someone’s religion isn’t harming others’ lives or property, there shouldn’t be an issue.

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  • Talib
    Feb 7, 2012 - 6:42AM

    @Sarfraz:
    It doesnot need any deep knowledge of someone’s religious believs to judge the actions of intolerence, fanatisism and persecution.
    The auther is talking about the conduct of some extremist to usurp the rights of a comunity in the name of religion. Hope you place youself in the place of Ahmadis and thing what will you feel if it all happens with you. Just simple.

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  • Adnan
    Feb 7, 2012 - 7:35AM

    The basic condition for being a muslim is to accept that Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet from Allah in this world. And if someone denies it then he cannot be a muslim. But Ahmadis insist that they are muslims and this is the reason that they are largely condemned in Pakistan. And this is the reason they cannot be given a status of minority in a Muslim Society because they don’t want it and not claiming for this status. If they are willing to accept the status of minority then they must be treated with respect as suggeste by Islam but they not only call themselves as muslims but are also trying to change the belief of other Muslims. That’s why they are hated in a Conservative Society.

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  • Arifq
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:01AM

    Hats off to Saroop, he has chosen to go where others would dread or tip toe their opinions. Saroop, it’s writers like yourself who keep humanity alive, i am not an Ahmedi but totally agree with your thesis. Thanks

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  • Babloo
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:05AM

    UN and other countries should impose sanctions on Pakistan for its abhorrent treatment of Ahmadis who are brutalized legally and constitutionally by the state laws themselves who act as facilators for the cruelty imposed on Ahmedis . The state needs to be ostracized and held accountable.

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  • Azhar
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:17AM

    @Ali Tanoli:
    Allama Iqbal did play his role but Mr. Dard’s persuasion of Quaid is reality. The history available to us these days in Pakistan is quite forged and full of exclusions.

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  • Umer
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:26AM

    @Spud:

    If Ahmadis are not proselytising their
    beliefs what right has anyone got to
    harrass them

    By this standard Zakir Naik should be banned in India as well as many mosques in the west as they proselytising their beliefs. I am not sure how you missed the point that proselytising one’s beliefs is one’s basic right.

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  • Azhar
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:33AM

    I salute you Mr. Ijaz and offer my gratitude for standing up to injustice and official foul play against a peaceful community in Pakistan. I pray for your safety and well being as you are posing with a red flag in front of angry bulls. God save humanity !Recommend

  • manish
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:35AM

    Argentina has three main enemies:
    Karl Marx, because he tried to destroy the Christian concept of society;
    Sigmund Freud, because he tried to destroy the Christian concept of the family;
    and Albert Einstein, because he tried to destroy the Christian concept of time and space

    interestingly all these three gems of humanity are jews, although staunch atheist.

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  • shaheen1shaheen2
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:56AM

    qadiani do not believe in khatm-e-nabuwat and should not pretend to be muslim.kudos to hafiz saeed sahab and jamaat-ud-dawa for coming in forefront and defending islam.

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  • asim mehmood
    Feb 7, 2012 - 9:06AM

    Thankyou Saroop Ejaz and eTribune for being brave in the face of adversity as far as the “Ahmadiyya issue” is concerned.

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  • Ibn-e-Maryam
    Feb 7, 2012 - 9:14AM

    Excellent article. Thanks much

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  • Aminul Haque
    Feb 7, 2012 - 9:25AM

    Thanks a lot for making such a brave and blunt expression in support of equal fundamental rights which is an essence of Democracy. I also thank the Express Tribune for publishing this well-written article.

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  • Truth
    Feb 7, 2012 - 9:26AM

    I have been living closely with Ahmadis since the past 12 years and here is what i have learnt about them. They are non muslims for sure as per the muslim belief as they do believe that their ghulam mohmmad was the “prophet” and they regard him like that although publically they never ever accept it. Which is what their hypocracy is all about. As far as history goes and their contributing to Jinnah goes, there is more to it than meets the eye. This community was created by the british to serve their interests and created a divided in the sub continent. That is a food for throught for others to go and research very elaborately and find out the reality. One thing is for sure as far my personal experience goes they hide the truth from public and in their own gatherings its a different story altogether and their dealings i found to be unfair!

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  • huzaifa
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:03AM

    @Sarfraz:
    Dear sarfarz, first of all, i am a Muslim but your argument is very dangerous for pan-Islamism. If we go as per your saying then we are minority in France so there ban on hajab may be right, the ban on Switzerland to erect minerates may be right and if tomorrow some other country ban worshiping muslims and their mosques because we are in minority will it be justified? remember if we continue doing these( Rawalpindi type of activities very near to capital Islamabad) we are encouraging more countries to give liberal treatment for asylum cases to qadiyanies and further on banning muslim activities in their countries on the same argument that you have….. HOW ABOUT THAT>

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  • Khurrum
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:15AM

    Yeah we have to be Tolerant of ahmadis while we consider them as Non Muslims and allow them complete freedom, But they do have such freedom in Pakistan and I must say more Shia,s are Persecuted than Ahmadis in Pakistan but Liberals forget that , Furthermore Ahmadis are in Top Positions in Pakistans Bureucracy , Army and Politics and as Leaders so what is New is that they are more organised and can make more Noise as they are in Media too .

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  • Sadhu
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:24AM

    @John B:
    Pakistan is run by the stooges of the Petro Dollar pumping orthodoxy of the Saudi Arabia. Petrol is Allah’s curse for the Muslim countries. Not much hope as long as PD keep flowing and funding the fundoos in Pakistan.

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  • Sadhu
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:27AM

    @Chulbul Pandey:
    Why do you accuse him of thinking?

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  • Masood Raja
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:41AM

    We must have moral courage to stand against religious fanaticism. .Pakistan is for all of its citizens regardless they are Muslims Christians Hindus or Sikhs.We should and must not be blackmailed by religious extremists. I have lot of Ahmedi friends> They stand on high moral grounds. One may differ with their viewpoints but they have a right to express their belief.Most of them are practicing Mulsims and honest in their daily life. We should leave it in the hands of Allah Subhan-e Tallah to decide that who is a good Muslim and who is not.

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  • Insomniac
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:42AM

    @NotAHypocrite!:
    Your comments reflect otherwise of your name…it must be very hard on your tongue to call this community, an Ahmadiyya community.

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  • Feroz
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:43AM

    The authors plea is passionate and endearing but a cry in the wilderness. One can empathize with his plea but the country is firmly in the grip of Religious Power brokers whose business cannot be derailed. The country sadly may not be left with any minorities in the near future considering the momentum and current trajectory.
    Land will become very PURE !

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  • Babbar
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:48AM

    Well done on highlighting a very sensitive issue. Ahmadi persecution in Pakistan sounds like Jewish persecution at the hands of the Nazi pre WW2 and reminds me of a famous quote used during the Nuremberg Trials post WW2 to the effect “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”. Indeed we are all guilty of persecuting a defenseless minority by remaining silent.

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  • syed_Raza_Ali
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:57AM

    @Sarfraz: How ‘brilliant’ of a question is that ? Do you not see these ppl being persecuted everyday ?

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  • syed_Raza_Ali
    Feb 7, 2012 - 11:15AM

    Thank you Saroop for breaking the deafening silence. You spoke your conscience..So should WE ALL !

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  • Nanggdharangg Pakistani
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:07PM

    I’m not an Ahmadi either and don’t care about the specifics or particulars of anyone’s beliefs. You have once again won me over by highlighting this issue which smacks of our fear and hypocrisy…

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  • mateen
    Feb 7, 2012 - 12:19PM

    @Sarfraz:
    A law can be brutal when it leads to injustice!!!!! It has nothing to do with religion….
    ahh! u must be one of those confused souls still trying to figure out the relationship b/w nationalism and religion! Basic human rights include the freedom to have a religion of your own choice and if any law deprives a particular sect of these rights then such a law is brutal and should be abolished! as in late Salman Taseer’s word’s “these black laws” need to be brought to an end. To learn basic human rights, please try to read Quran and also any other general knowledge book.. I hope it would help u in defining lines b/w religion, state and the rights of all citizens!

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  • Pakistani
    Feb 7, 2012 - 2:13PM

    Thank you Ijaz for writing a brave article.

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 3:05PM

    Good news is that Saroop Ijaz has woken up to the Ahmadi issue. Bad news is that what he finds irksome is not as much the mistreatment or discrimination but that those who choose to speak against this discrimination choose to do so in Jinnah’s name. Tragic that not everyone is as well educated as Saroop Ijaz to produce references of obscure authors at a drop of a hat.

    Here it must be stated that Jinnah’s relevance ro Ahmadi case is not limited to piddling subsection of his career such as his championing unpopular causes like child marriages restraint act or his efforts to legalize inter-communal marriage without renunciation of faith or his warnings against the misuse of 295-A, grandfather clause to 295-c. No Jinnah’s relevance has to do with the fact that he was last popular political leader who said that Ahmadis were Muslims and no one had the right to say otherwise. His relevance is that he resisted all demands by the Mullahs to expel Ahmadis from the League. Indeed the Majlis e Ahrar started its anti-ahmaddiya campaign partly to discredit Jinnah and as an election slogan.

    This is precisely why the Munir Report dedicates an entire section to Jinnah’s Pakistan. Maybe their lordships Munir and Kayani were not as educated as Mr Ijaz.

    Yasser Latif Hamdani
    Lahore

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 3:08PM

    Good news is that Saroop Ijaz has woken up to the Ahmadi issue. Bad news is that what he finds irksome is not as much the mistreatment or discrimination but that those who choose to speak against this discrimination choose to do so in Jinnah’s name. Tragic that not everyone is as well educated as Saroop Ijaz to produce references of obscure authors at a drop of a hat.

    Here it must be stated that Jinnah’s relevance ro Ahmadi case is not limited to piddling subsection of his career such as his championing unpopular causes like child marriages restraint act or his efforts to legalize inter-communal marriage without renunciation of faith or his warnings against the misuse of 295-A, grandfather clause to 295-c. No Jinnah’s relevance has to do with the fact that he was last popular political leader who said that Ahmadis were Muslims and no one had the right to say otherwise. His relevance is that he resisted all demands by the Mullahs for expulsion of Ahmadis from the League. Indeed the Majlis e Ahrar started its anti-ahmaddiya campaign partly to discredit Jinnah and as an election slogan.

    This is precisely why the Munir Report dedicates an entire section to Jinnah’s Pakistan. Maybe their lordships Munir and Kayani were not as educated as Mr Ijaz.

    Yasser Latif Hamdani
    Lahore

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  • Bilal Bajwa
    Feb 7, 2012 - 3:21PM

    I am deeply touched; what a courageous man, what a lovely piece of work, thank you for that, please keep it up!

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  • Muhammad Faisal
    Feb 7, 2012 - 3:33PM

    The basic condition for being a Muslim is to accept that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is the last prophet from Allah in this world. And if someone denies it then he cannot be a Muslim. So a qadiani should not pretend to be a Muslim. If qadianis stop pretending to be Muslims, majority of Muslims will have no issues with them.

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  • omerulz
    Feb 7, 2012 - 3:40PM

    @All opposing Sarfraz

    “The laws that declare Ahmadis as non-Muslims and enact prohibition on calling their places of worship as ‘mosques’ etc. are brutal and medieval.”

    If everybody else other than Sarfraz think that being called a non-muslim is brutal and medieval, than it shows their immaturity. The author clearly said that he doesn’t know about Ahmadis, hence he certainly doesn’t know who Ahmadis are and what they should be called. They are non-muslims same as Christians are; if they hate being called Ahmadis; than its their problem.

    I totally accept authors other arguments that they have got every right to practise their belief same as the muslims in Pakistan have.

    Its beyond my imagination that how is it medieval and brutal to call non-muslims as “non-Muslims”. What a preposterous statement!

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  • Z Khan
    Feb 7, 2012 - 3:58PM

    Thanks S Ejaz and hats off for the bold stand of Express Tribune. However here I see this problem from an other angle. English Press/Media which to my knowledge is read and heard constitutes only 20-25% population of the Pakistan. (This is just a broad guess and can be wrong) People on whose agitation or protest anti Ahmadiyya steps are taken do not even know iota of what is being said and written in English Press or media. Similarly I am more than 100% confident that if this article is translated in to Urdu no significant news paper of Pakistan will ever be ready to publish this article. Learned class of the Pakistan which also understands English already favours that anti Ahmaddyya laws are bad stigma on the face of Pakistan. However how to reach to the actual population of Pakistan and make them clear that these anti ahmadiyya laws áre not bringing good name to the country. Politicians are also afraid of this aspect as they have to beg votes from those who do not speak or understand English. Similarly the media which is most popular and watched extensively is also not ready to discuss this issue. Can people like S Ejaz, those who matter and have deep effect in Urdu section of the press and popular media of Pakistan also come forward and take up this matter?

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  • R.A
    Feb 7, 2012 - 4:00PM

    For one moment let us forget about
    what Ahmadis believe and if they are
    Muslims or not.
    Can someone explain why anti-Ahmadiyya
    activities and treatment of Ahmadis is
    exactly th sams as it was against those
    who accepted Holy Prophet S A S 1500 year ago
    Why Ahmads are forced to be like believers of
    original and true Islam.
    Perhapse it is what Allah wants it to be.
    Recommend

  • mohsaf gondal
    Feb 7, 2012 - 4:05PM

    thanx for writtin an article abt ahmadies persecution. but who gonna tell these so called contractors of islam that where r they standing abt teachings in islam. our relation is with GOD who we always pray too. Rest we always leave it to GOD who gives us strength to bear all these hurdles of life. but still i salute u for takin a brave step, even writting about it.

    best of luck n GOD bless u

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  • Bashir'
    Feb 7, 2012 - 4:12PM

    @Imtiaz: Gen iftikhar janjua, an ahmadi , laid his life in the battleground in 1965 war. Another Gen Nasir ahmad was seriously injured on the front line in 1971 war in rajasthan sector. Ironicaly he was shot dead while saying juma prayers on 28th may last year in model town lahore mosque along with hundred other ahmadis. Inalilah

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  • Talha
    Feb 7, 2012 - 4:16PM

    @Ali Tanoli:

    My earlier reply did not get published so I am going to post again.

    It was Mr Ibrahim Dard who persuaded Jinnah to return to Pakistan at the behest of Mirza Basheer-ud-din Ahmed.

    Similarly, Kashmir Committe was set up by Allama Iqbal and Mirza Basheer-ud-din Ahmed together. Allama Iqbal persuaded everyone to elect Mirza Basheer Ahmed as the president of the committe by stating that no one else can do the job of safeguarding rights for Kashmiri’s.

    Please look up your history again,

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  • athar mahmood
    Feb 7, 2012 - 5:18PM

    i would like to salute to Mr Ijaz and Express Tribune fro such a brave work and also advise to Ijaz be careful.Recommend

  • sultan
    Feb 7, 2012 - 5:38PM

    @Sarfraz: It is brutal to supresss another person’s peaceful belief and worship regardless of what that belief might be.

    It is positively surreal that a Muslim-majority country is wasting valuable time and resources of the courts to punish people for praying, fasting, saying the kalima, etc …

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  • Anon
    Feb 7, 2012 - 5:44PM

    To all those protesting that declaring Qadiyani’s Non-Muslim is unfair – Qadiyani’s require their disciples to take bayt with Mirza Ghulam as a pre-requisite to be part of their faith, and they also require all their followers to consider those outside their faith to be Kafir. So it’s hypocritical on their part to condemn what they themselves are guilty of. The only reason Qadiyani’s garner sympathy is because they are few in numbers but have alot of financial clout. Otherwise if they were in the majority, they would have outlawed the rest of us as Non-Muslims too.

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 5:45PM

    ahmedis are also humans, they also have right to live

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  • NotAHypocrite
    Feb 7, 2012 - 5:47PM

    @Insomniac
    No it’s not hard for me, the name Ahmedi means follower of the Prophet (PBUH) as Ahmed was His Name, something they are not. Qadiyani is their original name since it is the birthplace of their founder, so why such a problem with this name?

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 6:03PM

    Here we have a classic confrontation of liberal vs conservative sides of society. I find that the reason why such debates always end up in a deadlock is that most liberals do exactly as the author said and
    1. do not have any in-depth knowledge of their belief, and
    2. do not particularly care much about the specifics of anyone’s theological leaning” (sic)

    the most destructive result of this attitude is that fanatics who are passionate (albeit wrong) about their beliefs come off as people who know what they are talking about whereas the “liberal” side with their “dont know dont care” attitude come off as elitist, apathetic and ignorant to the masses. In such scenarios the silent majority is pushed and polarized to relate to the fanatics … in the end people like salman taseer are murdered, people like sherry rehman are silenced and ahmadis are persecuted yet asia bibi rots in a prison cell, all because most of the people who were supposed to stand up for her “dont have any in-depth knowledge” nor do they “particularly care much about the specifics”.

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 6:27PM

    A brave article. Welldone Me ejaz Saroop. Writing for the rights of deprived masses is realy a very nobel cause.
    The fanaticism in Pakistan has been provoked by the establishment of every government to fulfill there il will and dirty agenda. By using religion as a tool to exploit the masses is a very common story by all times in the history.

    If we want to see Pakistan a successful state then we must condemn religious extremism. Unfortunately our urdu print and electronic media is playing a positive role to make this society a tolerant one.

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  • Amir
    Feb 7, 2012 - 6:30PM

    Saroop Ijaz Sahib
    Thank you for this article please keep it up

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  • Usman
    Feb 7, 2012 - 6:48PM

    It in indeed sad that the real issues facing our society today are not duly highlighted… so kudos to Mr Saroop for bringing this issue to light.

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  • Usman
    Feb 7, 2012 - 7:02PM

    Thanks for highlighting this issue… I am an Ahmadi and a proud Pakistani… and yet I may be imprisoned anytime for saying “Assalam-o-alaikum” to a fellow Pakistani (who is officially a Muslim as per our esteemed Constitution)…

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  • Z Khan
    Feb 7, 2012 - 7:09PM

    @Ahsan:
    You could have suggested some solution also to your brilliant observation.

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  • waseem
    Feb 7, 2012 - 7:36PM

    @Sarfraz:
    aahmm lets see .. HUMAN RIGHTS MAY BE???? i mean wake upp hellooooo

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  • Shakky
    Feb 7, 2012 - 7:36PM

    On the Day of Judgement, the Ahmadis will bear witness (as will all of Creation) that they were mercilessly persecuted by a group of people calling themselves Muslims. The latter will claim that they were doing it to defend Islam, upon which they will questioned regarding where in their religion they are given license to persecute the weak and downtrodden. They will be unable to answer. What do you think will happen then?

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  • Khan Afsar
    Feb 7, 2012 - 7:50PM

    For those who are very much concerned about the Ahmadis thing, they should ask one simple Question from themsleves ” Why Christians, Jews, Hindus, Seikhs and you name them are allowed to name Their Places of worship But not Ahmadis to call their places of Worship as Mosques?”

    To get the answer you need to know about islam and its basic belief from Quran and Sunnah and as the sholars preached from time to time, particularly about Jesus Christ, the son of Mary. Then you go and do some home work and study the teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad QaidyaniRecommend

  • Usman
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:03PM

    Being an Ahmadi I thanks you for bringing forth this issue

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  • Usman
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:08PM

    @ Khan Afsar
    you hit the nail on its head…. let the people study the teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani and decide for themselves!!!

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  • salarmaiwand
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:42PM

    “Every one of us (including myself) who has obtained a passport has signed the declaration that the Ahmadi prophet is an imposter and a liar…”
    why do you assume that “everyone” includes only mainstream society that excludes Ahmadis, Christians and other minorities. many Pakistani don’t sign this because they are not mainstream ‘Muslims’.
    this notion of Pakistani only being the mainstream ‘Muslims’ is so embedded in our psyche that we take it for granted.

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  • Ammar
    Feb 7, 2012 - 8:52PM

    ” I think some of you will agree with me in so far as my belief that our core conflict is a struggle between theocratic fascism and civilisation. If that is the case, with the anti-Ahmadi sentiment we are staring right into the gun barrel of this phenomenon”

    So true. I wish to see this article in Urdu newspapers

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  • Pollack
    Feb 7, 2012 - 9:03PM

    @Sarfraz: You don’t have to be a Jew or know Jewism to figure out that atrocities were commited against them by hitler. Logical thinking is not that hard. Just try harder. You will get the hang of it.

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  • An Ahmadi Muslim
    Feb 7, 2012 - 9:09PM

    @Truth “This community was created by the british to serve their interests and created a divided in the sub continent.”

    here is some ACTUAL TRUTH/FACT for you…:)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPSHtP8mQK4&feature=player_embedded

    Peace !

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  • Uza Syed
    Feb 7, 2012 - 9:26PM

    Thanks Saroop, as long as we have, among us, courageous people like yourself we still have reason to hope. Thank you for standing up and thank you for the inspiration to lot of us to stand and be counted. I join those who condemn and demand repeal of all discriminatory laws including the so called ‘Blasphemy Laws’. These are no laws but an insult to the concept of natural justice and equality of citizens. Salute!

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  • Feb 7, 2012 - 10:25PM

    “The State has a responsibility to restrain these fanatical, terrorist outfits from spewing venom against fellow citizens and so do the free media and the liberals.”

    That would mean a willingness to successfully prosecute, imprison, and even execute Muslims who commit crimes against Ahmadis. Can somebody point to a Pakistani public official with the guts to do such a thing? If so, where are the Pakistani citizens willing to support him? If not, where are the Pakistani citizens prepared to step forward to change this?

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  • Saood Hamid
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:46PM

    I reckon every one is missing the point,including Mr.Ijaz.Ahmadiyya community is non-Muslim minority(it is point less to deny that they are non-Muslims…) they should be treated like other non Muslim minorities. they should be given rights as citizens of Pakistan like other minorities.I am not addressing current status of minorities rights violations, the point is that all minorities deserve their rights irrespective of their theological views.

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  • Andleeb
    Feb 7, 2012 - 10:51PM

    As per constitution of Pakistan, Ahmedias are not Muslim. Pakistan was created for Muslims, and is an Islamic country. If Ahmedias have a problem with that, let them emigrate to India.

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  • Bravo...
    Feb 7, 2012 - 11:09PM

    The educated speak different! Wish for still more educated lot! Truth be told…

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  • Truthseeker
    Feb 7, 2012 - 11:59PM

    Bravo. Bravo. Mr. Saroop Ejaz.
    You have restored my faith in humanity. I have waited for ONE person in Pakistan to stand up and say, ‘This is wrong’.
    I salute your eloquence, your courage and your wisdom. I hope this will give spark and incentive to the people of reason in that country.
    May God protect you from the evil spirit that has ‘wrapped the land’ of pure. You will be in our prayers.

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  • AA Choudhary
    Feb 8, 2012 - 12:11AM

    @Adnan:
    Dear Adnan, You also don’t believe that Prophet Muhammad (SAS) is the last prophet. For you Jesus (as) who will return in future, guide the Muslim ummah, and then die. Prophet Muhammad (sas) died hundreds of years ago. So for you Jesus (as) and not Prophet Muhammad (sas) is the last prophet. Go and ask any scholar of LOGIC in your college or University.The problem is that you have been duped by the mullahs who do not reflect upon Hadith or the Quran. Please ponder on the hadith where Prophet Muhammad (sas) calls the returning Messiah a ‘NABI’.

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  • Ali Tanoli
    Feb 8, 2012 - 12:54AM

    Stanley wolpert write in his book shamefull flight (the last years of british Raj in india) that one day strange thing when representives from sikhs & qadianis or ahmedis arrived at house
    of last viceroy to Hind mount batton and asked for seprate countries out of india i guess thats
    why Mr Dard pressed Mr Jinnah for pakistan and ch zaferullah khan did not bothers to attend
    mr jinnah funeral pray and may be god had something else in his mind so he did not give a
    seprate country to these two cults. Recommend

  • Ilyad
    Feb 8, 2012 - 1:37AM

    @Andleeb: so you just proved that this so called Islamic society is devoid of respecting any civil liberties and basic human rights of anyone except these so called (constitutional) muslims. And India in this respect is a better country, that it actually does what islam teaches the Muslims – to respect humanity? what a shameful thought!

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  • jamal syed
    Feb 8, 2012 - 2:09AM

    Nice article..i wish we as a society can evolve up to that extent after being pushed so deep by our so called “Difa-e-Pakistan”Mujahideen…

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  • Ali Tanoli
    Feb 8, 2012 - 2:29AM

    @AA CHudery
    then what u gonna do the the hadith saying prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is last last prophet to
    mankind and about Issa (A,S) is just said he taken in heaven alive and never died or crucified
    and will return as Ummathi simple muslim like us means believer of Muhammad (pbuh)..
    wallah alam

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  • anonymus
    Feb 8, 2012 - 3:54AM

    Thank you Saroop…… you are brilliant
    I must say that I am coward but pray for your safety.

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  • Shahnaz Latif
    Feb 8, 2012 - 4:28AM

    Thank you Saroop Ijaz for writing such an honest article, on an issue that needs the attention of all honest people of pakistan and around the world. Lets hope and pray that people like you will make the difference in Pakistan. Ahmadis are not threat to any one, they are peace loving commenity.Ahmadiyya community’s Motto is Love for All hatred for None. Please visit http://www.alislam.org to get the true teaching of Islam.

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  • Another Ahmadi
    Feb 8, 2012 - 5:08AM

    I’m an Ahmadi as well by the Grace of Allah. I concur the thoughts of “an Ahmadi” that Pakistan one day will become the same Pakistan as envisioned by the Founder of Pakistan Mohammad Ali Jinnah. I also believe that Pakistan will be the united Pakistan from Afghanistan till Bangladesh and will be the Superpower of the whatever world it be!!

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  • kaalchakra
    Feb 8, 2012 - 6:23AM

    Faraz

    Actually, there is an alternative philosophical, spiritual approach to these matters – that NO religion is true.

    You would be surprised to learn that this alternative approach guides many religions other than Islam, Christianity, and Judaism.

    Recommend

  • AA Choudhary
    Feb 8, 2012 - 7:31AM

    @Ali Tanoli,
    Your statement that Isa (as) will return as a simple Muslim, i.e., not a ‘Nabi’ needs analysis. Please read the Hadith in Sahih Muslim where Prophet Muhammad (sas) calls the returning Isa (as) as Nabi four times in just that one hadith. Also according to many non Ahmadi scholars (Most probably it includes Maulana Madoodi also but I am not sure) anyone who believes that the Isa (as) will be stripped of his Nabuwwat when he returns is a kafir and non-Muslim. Please think.How to interpret last last prophet? just read the Hadith. How did Prophet Muhammad (sas) interpret the last last prophet when he declared the returning Isa (as) as prophet in his own words

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  • Atiya
    Feb 8, 2012 - 7:36AM

    @Sarfraz:
    Because it’s common sense!!! You don’t have to be a scholar to know that.
    To learn about Ahmadiyyat go to http://www.alislam.org

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  • Asia Maryam Lazarus
    Feb 8, 2012 - 8:24AM

    “The basic condition for being a muslim is to accept that Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet from Allah in this world.”
    Dear Adnan. Prove it from Quran and Hadith. Or from Arkane- Islam or Arkane -Iman. You are terribly wrong. The definition of Islam by the founder of Islam is:He who says God is one is a Muslim. And: He who pray like us and face our Qibla and eat our slathered animal is a MUSLIM. So Ahmadies are perfect Muslims as far As this definition is concerned. Recommend

  • Suhail Kausar
    Feb 8, 2012 - 8:26AM

    I am sure that majority of Pakistanis share the views expressed by Saroop Ijaz, but very few like him stand up with courage he did. It is this indifference by the civil society including the so- called ‘independent judiciary’, to the irrational behavior of the few and the fear inflicted by extremists, which has hijacked the entire civil society from speaking against injustices. The consequences of this conduct are so obvious for everybody to see. If this country has to get out of the mess they are in, they have to join hands to defeat the forces of hate and fear and establish a respectable place for them in the comity of nations.
    Suhail Kausar

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  • Asia Maryam Lazarus
    Feb 8, 2012 - 8:37AM

    @Adnan

    “The basic condition for being a muslim is to accept that Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet from Allah in this world.”

    Prove it from Quran ,Hadith, Arkane-Islam and Arkane-Iman that its a basic condition for a Muslim.

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  • Asia Maryam Lazarus
    Feb 8, 2012 - 9:15AM

    @shaheen1shaheen2

    “qadiani do not believe in khatm-e-nabuwat and should not pretend to be muslim.kudos to hafiz saeed sahab and jamaat-ud-dawa for coming in forefront and defending islam.”

    Is the interpretation of Khatm-e-Nabuwat according to the Mullah is a basic requirement for being a Muslim. I think there are many other interpretations.Even every Muslim believe that Isa Alaehe Salam will come in last days. More over the definition for being a Muslim was settled by Holy Prophet himself. There is no mention of Khatm-e-Nabuwat as an essential part of basic Muslim Dogma. Prove from Quran and Hadith if there is any where mentioned that he who does not believe in Khatme-Nabuwah according to Gn. Zia’s interpretation is not a Muslim.Dr. Abdul Salam was invited by Zia to the presidential palace. Zia requested him to believe on the Zia ul Haqi interpretation of Khatme-Nabuwat. On Dr. Salam’s request Zia brought a copy of Holy Quran from his library, searched for a suitable reference for half an hour and then changed the subject.

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  • Syed Abdul Saboor
    Feb 8, 2012 - 9:37AM

    Truth, said as such! Thanks to Tribune for not succumbing to what ills Pakistan and is eating it from inside.

    Those who advocate not letting Ahmadis calling themselves Muslims are harming the very religion they so pretend to “protect” and in the process Pakistan itself. The declaration of the Ahmadis as non-Muslim was the start of the slippery slope that has brought Pakistan to where it is, now there are no shades of gray – everyone is either with us or a kafir. Everyone who flights for the human rights of Pakistani citizens who’re Ahmadi Muslims will indeed be fighting for their own and their children’s’ future.

    Calling all the youngsters who are excited about PTI, Tehreek-e-Insaf, why do you not speak to the “insaf” and justice for EVERY Pakistani and make your admirable cause truly meaningful by being completely inclusive.

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  • kingkhan
    Feb 8, 2012 - 10:46AM

    I am happy Saroop has raised a very valid concern. As an Ahmedi, I am least concerned how the morally bancrupted mullahs in a morally corrupted state treat us. Dont forget, Europe punished jews for their beliefs and it took them less than 50 years to compose themselves and rule the world.

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  • kingkhan
    Feb 8, 2012 - 10:54AM

    Adnan says “The basic condition for being a muslim is to accept that Prophet Mohammad (SAW) is the last prophet from Allah in this world”
    No sir, the basic condition for becoming a muslim is to beleive in Kalma which states that there is no God but God and Mohamed is His prophet (not the last prophet)

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  • kingkhan
    Feb 8, 2012 - 11:02AM

    Like christians, muslims beleive on second coming of Christ. Christ who is an accepted prophet even by muslims is not returning back as messiah downgraded from his prophethood. So whats wrong if Ahmedies beleive that the messsiah has come and he is a prophet?

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  • Usman
    Feb 8, 2012 - 11:41AM

    @Adnan
    Care to reply to post by Asia Maryam Lazarus?

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  • huzaifa
    Feb 8, 2012 - 12:08PM

    @Andleeb:
    dear, then what about Muslims living in christian, Budhist countries……….should they also go back to muslim countries. May i be allowed to ask that are you serving the cause of Muslims living abroad and are you a educated person?

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  • Feb 8, 2012 - 12:19PM

    To the gentlemen who are arguing that because Pakistan was founded for Muslims Ahmadis have no place…

    Jinnah on 5th May 1944 made it absolutely clear that Ahmadis were Muslims because they professed to be Muslims. The contributions of Ahmadis to Pakistan are numerous starting with Sir Zafrullah’s excellent contributions both as Pakistan’s lawyer before the boundary commission and as Pakistan’s first foreign minister appointed by Jinnah himself. In 1947 Pakistan even claimed that Qadian was a Muslim holy place. So there is some such thing as promissory estoppel which may apply.

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  • butt jee
    Feb 8, 2012 - 12:49PM

    Without entering into the discussion of your belief and my faith, I must admit, on the basis of my personal experience, that majority of the Ahmadies are better Pakistanis and better human beings than the Mullahs. Recommend

  • Fareed
    Feb 8, 2012 - 1:17PM

    @Adnan
    Care to reply to post by Asia Maryam Lazarus?

    If anyone seeks the truth and have this blasphemy law debate finished, have the govt. release the essambly proceedings (which are not disclosed – although being ordered to disclose them). We will see what happend there.

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  • M. Ahmed
    Feb 8, 2012 - 2:06PM

    @Sarfraz:
    Dear brother, the simple thing is that no one cares whether you believe them to be muslims or non-muslims, it is the same as someone wants to call himself a human but a section of self styled superior persons of the society (eg like the aryans or nazis) declare that only we have the right to call ourselves humans. It is a matter of common decency. I give you a simple example. To the Christians and Jews and any other non muslim person the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is not a prophet. Now imagine if you have to sign up a document in USA or UK or India or Russia that requires their citizens to declare that they believe the Prophet (PBUH) made a false claim (remember that they do believe so otherwise they would have accepted Islam!!!), what would be your sentiments then???? Think hard and search your soul before you answer this…

    Hats off to the writer for speaking up!!

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  • Adam
    Feb 8, 2012 - 2:09PM

    Society will live until the figures like you are stopped. So don’t stop and speak truth. Thank You.

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  • K-
    Feb 8, 2012 - 4:31PM

    Well written !!

    Unfortunately, people cannot see injustice being done with Ahamdis so openly and bluntly. Everyone seems to be deaf and blind on this issue, may it be liberals or conservatives.

    This is so shameful !!

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  • Shafiq
    Feb 8, 2012 - 5:10PM

    Article by Ijaz is like a appeal to a deaf and blind society whose heart has been put with a seal from Allah. (Al-Baqarah, Verse 8)

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  • Saqi
    Feb 8, 2012 - 5:36PM

    A brave article. May GOD give you strength to write more topics on the issue and to the URDU media owners to speak justice on this issue.

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  • MAD
    Feb 8, 2012 - 5:43PM

    Its not just the passport, u need to make the same declaration to get a CNIC.

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  • Abid
    Feb 8, 2012 - 6:00PM

    Mr Saroop, Do you know what you are writing about is already a decided matter in Democratic manner… means a Law passed by Parliament with full time given to Ahmedies to prove thier beliefs in presence of all Senetors+MNA’s of all over country of all religion whose followeres reside in Pakistan????? And that in the Government of Mr. Z.A Bhuto (PPP) who is more enlightened person for millions. Then why bashing the Law of the land and hue & cry is being made in the name of Secularism. Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. It always ruled by Clean Shaved Military Rulers, Democratic Man and a Dupatta Clad Woman (Benazir sahiba). YOu can not change the history and nor peoples mind by using words like brutality, discrimination against, Fanatics, persecution, oppressed community bla bla.
    What our law want Ahmedies are very simple. 1) Dont call themselves as ‘Muslim’ (because they didn’t prove their belief in our Parliament) 2) Dont name your Place of worship as ‘Masjid’ (niether name it nor construct it as same). This second condition is ultimately the outcome of the 1st one. That’s All. Now fulfill these two condition and do what ever you want to do in Pakistan. Mr. Saroop, as you are claiming that you are not Ahmedi therefore, I will recommend you to go through the ‘religious beliefs’ of Ahmedies from their Books then write anything you want. and dont pretend to be too ‘a lay man’ into this matter. Recommend

  • Z.Khan
    Feb 8, 2012 - 6:30PM

    @Abid:
    Dear Abid good to know your ideas. You have forwarded very strange argumenst. Can you quote any where in this modern world where parliament is empowered to decide the religion of some one. It is the person himself who decides to which religion he or she belongs. Similarly your demand that since Ahamdies have been declared as non Muslim so they should behave like non Muslims is also very strange. It reminds me one incident. Mr A used to call Mr B as dog. Mr B showed patience and life went on. A got perturbed and started demanding from Mr B start behaving like dog. Your demand tantamounts to same. OK some authority (legally or illegally) declared the community ss Non Muslim. But how you can expect the community members to behave like non Muslim. Ahamdis have same Quran, Same Namaz and all other rituals of Islam. They call their worship place as Masjid. Can you also suggest which holy book they should read. Which Qibla they should follow. In which month they should fast. How they should celebrate Idain and what name should they give to their worship place etc. Merely allegations will not serve the purpose. Better to come out with concrete proposals and suggestions.

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  • Imran Bhat
    Feb 8, 2012 - 6:48PM

    If there is any one unique characteristic of Pakistani society, it is hypocrisy.

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  • misbah
    Feb 8, 2012 - 7:11PM

    very well said, may these mullahs act upon the true teachings of Islam that is to provide peace to the peacemakers

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  • farhat
    Feb 8, 2012 - 7:35PM

    This is definitely one of the best articles in support for the injustice against the ahmadi living in Pakistan. Thank you so much. I hope the audience can take this message to the masses. It is not about who is right or wrong. It’s about a country living in the modern world and clinging to barbaric and unjust laws vs. laws that provide the basic human rights to all indiscriminately. Islam’s teaching is that when Muslims should govern they should preserve the rights of their subordinate non-Muslim groups. So besides the debate of “ are Ahmadhis Muslims or not” , if Pakistan was based on and created on Islamic values, upholding every persons basic human rights is the incumbent on the Muslim governance, and this includes the freedom of religion.

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  • Ali Tanoli
    Feb 8, 2012 - 7:41PM

    @z. khan
    ever heard of (ki Mohammad se wafa tu ney to hum tere hai) by Allama Iqbal so i think he never ever be a ahmedi which dont believe in last prophet hood u gotta be one
    thing sraight to become a muslim oness of god and believe muhammad is the last prophet in
    all meaning what i said every meaning no this, that, it, bit Recommend

  • Rizwan Khan
    Feb 8, 2012 - 8:45PM

    Its just cruelty against humanity !! Which is not acceptable in any democratic state !! Sadly its just happening here .. people need to raise their voice’s .. no matter wht faith is followed by whom .. Being human is more important .. agree disagree is one thing and judging is another .. no religious schoolar has the right to do so .. and tht to the extent of treating ahmadis as they are treated in pakistan is shameful for its citizen’s in the whole world ..

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  • Fareeda malik
    Feb 8, 2012 - 8:55PM

    @ Yasser Lateef Hamdani
    Muhammad Ali Jinnah never said that Ahmdis were Muslims. Can you quote some authority or reference? True he inducted Ahmdis in cabinet, but he never said that they were Muslims.

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  • Humanity
    Feb 8, 2012 - 9:40PM

    Q: Why speak for the Ahmadis?

    A: To pass the litmus test that humanity is still considered a core value by the inhabitants of the land of pure.

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  • Yasser Latif Hamdani
    Feb 8, 2012 - 9:55PM

    Fareeda Malik sahiba, I have already given the date. For confirmation you may read “Self and Sovereignty” by Ayesha Jalal. Jinnah believed that anyone who professes to be a Muslim is Muslim.

    Jinnah’s links with Ahmadis are well known. It is also well known that he sought help of Jamaat Ahmaddiya in votes on Muslim seats. Not only that Pakistan under him laid the claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place. So it is clear that Jinnah considered Ahmadis Muslim in words, indeed and both explicitly and implicitly

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  • Ahmad
    Feb 8, 2012 - 10:27PM

    Its for the Pakistanis at large to raise voice against extremism and discriminations We rarely see anything in favour of ahmadis in Urdu media or tv. It reminds me of time of Holy Prohpet (PBUH) when non believers used to be frightened to even hear something of the message of Holy Prophet (PBUH) out of fear that if they hear they will believe the truth.

    Think about it. And find more at
    http://Www.alislam.org

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  • Syed
    Feb 8, 2012 - 10:36PM

    wow!
    The readers are truly uneducated – they lack necessary knowledge of history of this rift.
    The provocative parties in these matters should know how lithargic public is and put their act together, i.e. be more diplomatic.

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  • Deb
    Feb 8, 2012 - 11:34PM

    Thanks to Saroop and all those who cared to post their point of view on the issue.
    It was an education in itself to learn a bit about Islam and it’s followers(of all variety).

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  • AKB
    Feb 9, 2012 - 12:05AM

    [[[[[[[Every one of us (including myself) who has obtained a passport has signed the declaration that the Ahmadi prophet is an imposter; we can begin by refusing to do that.]]]]]


    There is hardly any need for any evidence other than above to prove the hypocrisy of the Mirzai’s. They must stop wallowing in the mud for their apostasy and learn to respect the laws and constitution of the country they live in.

    How Mirzai cult can swarm on to something anything which tends to serve their malicious ends is obvious on this thread! Look at the myriad of Mirzai Murteds swarming in with applause to the author.. what a shame!

    In the going I must say that the author considers himself to be viewing ‘privacy’ from the point of the West…otherwise he would have condemned the lechery and lasciviousness carried out in public parks under the cover of ”entertainment’ and ”privacy”….and which is turning our younger generation into flirts and wankers paving a speedy way for the ruination of decency and civility. at public places. Maya did nothing wrong in poignantly assailing those lechers engaged in immoral and obnoxious activities at public parks….
    any act of citizenry which creates bad influence on a society and is obscene and obnoxious by all means need to be curtailed with iron hand.. Recommend

  • Khalid Ahmad Khan
    Feb 9, 2012 - 12:56AM

    Excellent article, Mr Ijaz. Thoughtful, courageous, erudite and well-written.

    Most decent people hate discrimination, oppression and injustice. Fewer of them are prepared to speak out against it. It is important that they do. Otherwise, their silence will encourage hate-filled extremists, breed insecurity, intolerance and sectarianism, and further damage a baattered image of an open, free, forward-looking state.

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  • razia
    Feb 9, 2012 - 1:23AM

    huh one day…one day things will get better.I just hope!

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  • Imtiaz
    Feb 9, 2012 - 1:50AM

    @Asia Maryam Lazarus: You have brought a good point, some one needs to properly define, according to arabic dictionary and scholarship, the meaning and definition of the word ‘Khatim’ and ‘Khatam’ these two words in arabic have very different meanings. Khatim is used in the sense of complete, end, finished etc. and khatam has been, and still is, used is the sense of ultimate. The word used for Hadhrat Muhammad (pbuh), in Quran is Khatamun nabiyeen (Ultimate Prophet, that is why all the previous prophets will be subordinate to him) and he was not been called as Khatimun nabiyeen. It is the Islamic scholarship who have twisted these understandings for their own purposes. Someone needs to research this more and half of the problems will be solved.

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  • Ali
    Feb 9, 2012 - 1:55AM

    The Ahmadis do believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet.
    His son, Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, who was prophesied by his father, a nabi, to be the promised reformer of Islam, declared all non Ahmadis as Pukka Kaafir and outside the pale of Islam.

    These are the code beliefs of Ahmadis.
    Also Ahmadis declare that verse 4:69 of the quran is proof that new prophets will come after the Holy prophet and that we should aspire to become prophets.

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  • Zara
    Feb 9, 2012 - 2:32AM

    @ shaheen1 Ahmadis are Muslims, by grace of Allah and their belief of Khatme-nabuwat is the most strong and real one, as The Holy Prophet SAW was the LAST law- bearing prophet and he was chosen for revelation of the Holy Qur’an. He had Prophesized the coming of the Promised Messiah in the latter days. The Promised Messiah Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a.s. was the culmination of all major prophets. He saved Islam when Islam was under attack in the 19 th century and clarified Its meaning further i.e love, harmony, tolerance, civilization, justice, hatred for none and that there is NO violence in Islam nor force. Recommend

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