Was that MBA worth it?
“It’s significant only when you are applying for your first job. Later on, your performance in the last job is all that really matters,” said Shell Pakistan Human Resources General Manager Leon Menezes while talking to The Express Tribune.
Menezes said it was a misconception that most management jobs at a multinational company like Shell required an MBA degree. “There are two HR vice presidents in our global operations who majored in history. The head of Shell Global has a background in finance. The head of finance is an engineer.”
Although industry sources contend that Shell Pakistan is not the highest paymaster in the energy sector, saying oil and gas exploration companies pay far higher salaries to fresh graduates than the average starting salaries at Shell.
Currently, the starting salary of an MBA graduate at Shell Pakistan is roughly Rs75,000 a month. For BBAs, it is about Rs45,000 a month. “We get a market survey done every year. Salaries go up by 10-15% every year, so that takes care of inflation at least,” Menezes said.
HR managers at multinational companies believe there are far more MBAs in the market right now than can be accommodated. According to Saleem A Butt, chief operating officer at Hascol Petroleum Limited, an oil marketing company that runs 250 retail outlets across Pakistan, most business schools are churning out unemployable graduates.
“There are three tiers of business schools in Pakistan. LUMS, IBA and CBM are in the top tier, Hamdard, Szabist and Iqra are in the second tier, and PIMSAT, Biztek, Greenwich and others are in the third tier,” Butt said.
He added that fresh graduates of even the best business schools had only a ‘superficial knowledge’ of the corporate world. Complaining about the high expectation of business graduates vis-a-vis remuneration and performance evaluation, Butt said MBAs in Pakistan are actually ‘good for nothing’.
“Business schools should stop handing out MBA degrees to anyone who comes to them. Work experience of a few years should be mandatory in order to get into an MBA programme,” he said, adding that the going rate for a fresh MBA from an average business school was Rs13,000 a month – an amount less than what he paid to his driver. IBA recently made two years work experience mandatory for admission into an MBA programme, however, there is not set policy across the board.
A chartered accountant himself, Butt’s criticism of the MBA degree per se is biting. “MBAs tend to have better analytical skills. But the problem is that it’s the only skill they have. That’s why you’ll rarely find an MBA working as chief financial officer or head of the finance department.”
Butt is critical of the graduates of foreign business schools in equal measure. Citing an example from his days at Shell, he said once he asked an economics major from the London School of Economics during an interview how the government controlled inflation. “She was as clueless as any MBA from a Pakistani business school.”
Talking to The Express Tribune, recent MBA graduate Sibte Hasan Jafri said the job market for MBAs was overcrowded. He said business schools introduced a range of MBA programmes on the pretext of ‘specialisation’ in response to the obvious market saturation.
“All these apparently different MBA programmes are actually the same, except the final few courses. That’s why we see strange nomenclatures in newspaper ads like MBA in media management,” he said.
However, Menezes is not too pessimistic about the state of business education in Pakistan. “About 30 to 40 Pakistanis are working in senior positions in Shell globally. The current CEO of Shell Pakistan is an IBA alumnus. So is the head of lubricants.”
Menezes says that business graduates often lack the ability to think critically. “It’s not about knowing the right or wrong answer. It’s about how varied one’s thoughts are. Can he or she form an opinion of their own, and critique it as well?” he added.
Published in The Express Tribune, December 15th, 2011.
COMMENTS (77)
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How does the government control inflation ?
Sure it does, by increasing oil, gas, food prices all the time.
Results ? No one can buy it except the top notch income earners, expenditure goes down, so do incomes and then unemployment occurs and your shell pump faces strikes all the time and the economy goes into recession then foreign aid comes, the economy comes back and you're left good for nothing then the half of your GDP goes into servicing debts each year then you curse your government for not spending on education and other things and then you make funny pages against the government on the internet and then free roti scheme comes which actually benefits no one because there is actually nothing free, someone always has to bear the cost, then your people keep dying, then your curse the government again and force it to leave and then new people come in saying democracy democracy which is only democracy in terms of the election process and has no features of a full liberal democracy and then you expect people to know how does the government control inflation ?
Where is the government ?
P.S. Just because someone graduated from lse doesn't mean you pinpoint it sarcastically. Graduating with quality matters, don't try to undermine the institute.
Guys Suggest me Whats the best option for me in your opinion ....
@abdullah patoli: I have given admission tests for 4 students for different programs at IoBM, and they all got admitted - and have graduated as well. Just thought I'll give you a heads up on IoBM.
no one has mentioned quaid e azam university, NUST .
no one even know the names of CBM ,PIMSAT, biztek etc outside karachi . they dont have any reasearch publications neither they stand good in rankings
@Falcon: well it is even possible that MBA graduate in Pakistan even don't know meanings of inflation in detail
@Umer:
I believe the IBA was the first to introduce bussiness programs in the late fifties early sixites. The Quaid e Azam University is an institution that came into being in the 70's if I am not mistaken.
But even today IBA graduates do extremely well without any additional formal North American education both in the US as well as Canada.
Hello Guys,
Very good Article ! I am unsure myself whether to study in Australia or in Pakistan.In Pakistan only Industries are doing well are Banking sectors.I might go for CBM MBA but I am not sure fully.
Guys,What you suggest ?
To a certain extent,I agree with what is written in the article but at some places this piece of writing seems to be exaggerated.
Its true that the MBA's are over crowded. However, those with sheer determination make their way. The MBA crowd has made things difficult for genuine MBA's....
logical fallacies anybody? a whole article based on a certain person's opinion and his organization's recruitment patterns. secondly, if universities start asking for work experience, when will a graduate get done with his MBA and start giving substantial support to his/her family economically?
You still cant stop me from completing my MBA ;)
The decision to introduce two year work experience at IBA did not make any difference to my career plans.
The point is that corporations in Pakistan get what they deserve. In a short career I have worked for a number of big banners including a fast growing UK bank, almost bankrupt US bank and a growing conglomerate which made a billion dollar investment.
None of these local/multinational firms are interested in innovation, research or development; the local ones are busy making the "Seth" happy and the multi-national ones are busy worrying about how to make the foreign bosses happy.
Bottomline: its a trap and something like rebirth (like the one in 18th century Europe) is badly needed. Lets hope Imran Khan can do what Mohatir did for Malaysia at least
Like many said above...these employers are the root cause..while it is true that eventually educational institutions are churning out MBA's ..its the employers(primarily MNCs, FMCGs and TelCos) who fueled this MBA production..all these top companies require MBA for their top positions...even local banks are demanding MBA which is insane and ludicrous...these top-so-to-speak-employers started this trend of hiring MBA for MTO programs back in early 2000's and now complaining of overcrowded...
P.S. hamdard and iqra in second tier...i mean no offense but damn...then where does NUST,FAST come...
CBM? Top tier? Challo bhai.. lol
@SA and Blech: *Top tier business schools in Pakistan:LUMS, IBA &CBM which is now callled IoBM.*
Having taught both at IBA and IoBM , I can assure you all that IoBM graduates are far better than any other business schools' in Pakistan. The folowing highlights of IoBM make it self explanatory.
This year in July, a team of 4 students at IoBM, under my mentoship became the National Champion for the CIMA Global business challenge competition. The final round of this global competition was was held in China , where we represented our beloved country and IoBM. Some over 90 teams all over Pakistan participated in this competition and in the first round of the competition none of the IBA teams could qualify. In the final round, out of four finalists, two teams were from IoBM, one from LUMS and one from CAMS. IoBM students gave very tough time to the other three finalists, and by defeating them became National Champion.
In the last one and a half year major interuniversity academic/business/marketing competitions organized by MNCs like Lipton, Shell, P&G and Telenor have been won by IoBM students. Students from all over Pakistan participated in these competitions but again the feathers have been added on the IoBM's hat!
I have served the corporate world for almost over eight years, including two years managerial experience at International level. Based on my experience I can once again assure you that ours is a truly reference based society . It is natural that an employer with an IBAians in majority will find most of the MBA recruits from IBA and the same goes for LUMS. Based on this notion, it is easier to get the placement for IBA graduates as IBA being the oldest MBA producing insitutiion, has got the advantage of the largest pool of alumni and over so many years some of them have reached some top positions. But, wherever there is pure merit you will find that Non IBAians and Non LUMSians do equally well and that is why a person like me got a quick career growth in various insittutions served, where the mind set of employers was not obsessed with being IBAians or LUMSians. They just wanted to give chance to good quality staff, by providing level playing field to all.
About the quality of education, shared by many above, I agree that it is deteriorating but to comment on the resaons for this requires lots of time and lots of arguments and I think at this point in time it is not recommended. This will rather go beyond the scope of this article and can be discussed some other time . Hope above clarifies those mindsets which are obsessed with the instituions they belong to and donot want to give rooms to others. We should be open minded in our approach and if thete is any good thing happening or being done by our compeitiotrs or by those whom we donot like than I think we should have the courage to accept it and also encourage it as this will generate the environment of helathy competition. Sincerely Yours..
As per Wikipedia "The MBA designation originated in the United States, emerging from the late 19th century as the country industrialized and companies sought out scientific approaches to management." I am gravely disappointed by the journalism here. Some historical insight on this important subject should have been part of the story.
@J, Thank u sir its a shame for us.
That isnot Right Fully but To some Extent thats true becux there is no practical implcation of MBA'z management skills here..the knwldge drawn from Books never work in actual but after all... Only test of fire( Market) make a Fine Steel ( manager) So thats how it goes...how can Bookish knowldge lead you to practicalities of a specific thing...
It iznot Dat Bad though The Practical impicationz of Bookish knowledge is not Done No site Working and Demonstrations are given and Above all only the Test of Fire(market)make A fine Steel ( Manger) So thats hw it Goes
@Baqar: Totally agreed... IoBM has never boasted of its ranking... It rather focuses on improving its standards and leave the rest onto its alumni..!
@SA: Cannot say much about regular MBA program of CBM (IoBM) but yes the Executive MBA programs (2 & 3 yrs) are worth mentioning in top tier.
A fairly nice article, mostly putting the blame on Business Schools and sidelining the other factors present in our country.
The companies are equally responsible for the old case students through which we business students go through. Its a culture in our country that companies are afraid to share their information as a case study to the business students. They do feel that by just reading the case study and analyzing it thoroughly we business students are going to create a similar organization of our own just by going through the case studies of firms. Thats the reason we dont come through our domestic case studies and keep on analyzing the Wallmart, IBM services, Apple, MCdonals etc. Thankfully, LUMS have taken positive step in this regard.
MBA student IQRA University.
@Govt: Just wiki Monetarism; they teach this in AS level economics!
@Ali Tanoli: Because no muslims country gives a damn. Harvard, where I am studying right now, has the most comprehensive Islamic Finance Project in the world. Check it out: http://ifp.law.harvard.edu/
Ironic, isn't it? Keeping in mind, Harvard was found by Christians pilgrims who came to the new world to spread their faith!
@ans: You obviously haven't applied to top tier Business schools in the country. There are literally thousands of candidates and at best ~100-150 get selected.
Also CBM? IoBM? what? Yeh kya scene hai, IBA and LUMS ko toh daldo, phir jahan se aap ne parha hai, usko third pe le ao :P?
Can atleast someone for the sake of Govt. answer that question (how to control INFLATION? :)
one of the reason why People are getting admission in Business field in much no. because they can get admission in BBA OR ANY OTHER business degree easily there is no percentage limit to get admission in business field
Why muslim countries not doing much in islamic finance system can some body explain me please.
It seems except the government of Pakistan everyone around here knows how the government controlled inflation:-)
I lost faith in 'Prestigious Universities' since their graduates are the one who messed up World's finance, so if is has to end like this, I prefer learning from my school teacher who always said 'Chadar dekh ke paon phelao'.
I wont brag abt being in the first tier or third tier..but to my friends who are bashing IoBM...perceptions are often deceptive... If you cant face facts this doesnt change the reality. Moreover, IoBM never ever enters the rat race of being the number one or number two business school rather focuses on uplifting the standards through introspection. This is what makes it a distinguished institute.
75k starting for an MBA and it is "below" the avg market salary offered? Isn't that an exaggeration? Whats the source of this information, again?
I think that mpa(Master in public administration) should be encouraged........
I think the employers need to be criticized as well. Employers here need to recall how they were at the age of 22-23. A person without work experience will obviously not know as much as an experienced person. They should look for candidates who have the potential to be molded into future leaders. Interviewers should be looking for ppl who can be mentored, rather enjoy their power trip. Half the ppl I have interviewed with were ppl who had no potential themselves and felt intimidated. Especially, when local grads interview foreign grads they have a pre-existing bias against them. They think that foreign grads do not know anything about pakistan and are spoilt kids who's parents could afford to send them abroad.
@SA Its a hard pill to digest but you cant change the reality by commenting on ET. let me explain it to you---- see Ferrari is a big brand name but Nissan GT-R though a relatively new palyer in super cars arena is giving hard time to traditional players. If u r a LUMS graduate then you ahve my sympathies but if you are an IBA grad then stop living on stale diet of past glory... :)
Very nicely put article
One person from a company as second (or third) tier as his own does not mean anything. Indeed, there are no-worth MBAs but we only came here because all these institution shrugged off MBA-equivalent 4-year BBA (Majors) Degree holder.
Furthermore, there is no synergy between the industry and the higher education. Interns are hired for filing papers. Mr. Butt should have noticed that when he points a finger, the rest of the three point back at him.
The Pakistani Ivy league schools are...LUMS,IBA and IoBM...Get your MBA from these schools and you ll be considered for top opportunities in the country...doing it from anywhere else would be a waste!
@tas: the writer didnt ask an accountant the worth of an MBA. he asked a member of the job market about his observations regarding the quality of business grads in pakistan. and anyhow i agree with the author's opinion as i have also had an experience with these grads who are apparently 'good 4 nothing' xcept reciting theories and talking bookish jibberish.
This article is just an exaggeration and nothing else. Especially the wording of Mr. Butt inflation question. This is very basic economics question and at least every MBA knows it. Before writing author should have thorough research.
Well i want to mention one thing, the trend in Pakistan which is getting rapid gain over past few years is that, a student does his/her Inter in Commerce, then goes for bcom, after clearing bcom of 2 years he is significantly capable of getting an admission in any MBA program where on the other hand a person who does BBA of four years and then gets enrolled in MBA program is more likely to be eligible for MBA rather than bcom students... its just an opinion .
well even the Govt is clueless on how to control inflation!
Firstly The London School of Economics is NOT a business school, secondly if this person did not know how governments control inflation it is highly likely that they did not go to university, let alone the LSE.
CBM in the same tier as LUMS and IBA ... Please !
What is CBM ?????
Butt seems to be a real sarcastic or he is flaunting that he knows a lot ……. I know many Pakistani MBA’s in Key decision making positions at top class institutions i.e. CSFB, Shell, Engro, Merrill Lynch, Citi Bank, Deutsche and the list continues.. …..University provides you with opportunity to get yourself acquitted with most suitable approach to handle certain situations and organizations (and I mean Organization not some unknown outfit like Hascol) nurture the talent and turn them in to leaders… My advice to the MBA’s is they should work hard try to grasp the concepts and prefer a high-quality boss over a salary .. who can turn you around in to a high class professional in no time
Restructuring of MBA is required. Outdated theory , Historical case studies , Few presentations , Running after CGPA gives you nothing but some antique knowledge about 1000 B.C. Stress management techniques, practical application of field work,Regular Visit of different companies/Factories by whole class, Helping in job seeking by the universities , Helping in starting new business, Motivating not degrading the students about job opportunities, Giving more IT knowledge should be the role of universities and for God Sake leave those so called P.H.D teachers aside which consider themselves equal to GOD in their universities and don't come close to the students to understand their problems and take their heavy salaries home every month by delivering their outdated, useless , theoretical based lectures. Teacher should be committed to students 24/7 not just for 1 or 2 hour lecture.I hope my comment will bring change in Pakistan. Current student of MBA at comsats university lahore. Email: yaseriftikhar@ymail.com
@Muhammad Nasir: Its already mandatory, I wish you had info about that.
Very informative and to the point article. Also agreed with Shia Pakistani regarding co-op program. I don't know whether we have yearly university and colleges comparisons compiled by education ministry. Someone from private sector should take initiative and compile facts about educational institutes.
universities in Pakistan at least made mandatory internship program for MBA degree.
I think article is based on facts what going on in pakistan that MBA digree became a fashion u can get like ALOO CHOHLEY from any where and start complaining oh i dont have job... the best thing they should check some work exprience in the same firld.
MBA is a jack of all traders but master of none.
what an awesome piece of writing. Surely MBA overcrowded the market, but there is another twist to the story. Business studies is meant to train anyone how to run a business; but, most of the Business graduate end up looking for jobs instead of starting their own business of any size. Entrepreneurship is also a Sunnate Rasool SAW, but we don't go for it. Why?
Somewhat I do agree with author, but the real problem has been created by the employers also ... even they ask fresh mba graduates for hiring purpose .... so they should change their mind set also ... they should provide opportunities to fresh graduates after bachelors to gain some practical knowledge of industry and then can attain their masters degree in any field they like to. And seriously Author should had consult some mba professionals before writing this article not CAs ....
I did my AB Summa Cum Laude (Major: Economics and Math) from Cornell, Masters in Financial Economics from Columbia, and now am doing my MBA from Harvard Business School. See, I am doing nothing else other than commenting on ET!
Here i want to say something about HEC should do the screening stuff as Mr. junaid mentioned but why not these companies sit with the education departments and develop a course for MBA that includes what actually these companies want practically and which will really work for them. As you can see that LUMS was established when some of the companies wanted some quality business people to produce so they came togather to fulfill it in the shape of LUMS so why not to develop a course with the consultation of these leading companies and education department for other institutes.
I thnk Universities should get in touch with companies to provide them Freshers. Not only MNC or big organizations should be selected to send MBA's, but medium and small organizations should also be provided freshers. In this way students will have more job options and unemployment can be controlled. Also now a days University name does not really matters. It is some what correct for entry level positions, but for mid managerial and management position, what really matters is experience, skills, attitude and networking....
I disagree with the ranking of the institutions shown by the writer, and as far as business graduates skills are concerned, I'd say they are jack of all trades master of none.
At TAS: very well said...... I think both qualifications are entirely different, because C.A people will only talk about finance and accounts,,, its an MBA who knows every thing,,,, finance, management, marketing & HR,,,,, so assess, who is better????
MBA Graduates - Join PTI
very well written! agreed..
asking an Accountant the worth of an MBA.......hahahaha
Agreed with the statement that MBA degree should be provided to only those having a previous work experience. MBA provides you the essential skills and knowledge of all the important segments of business, however it depends on one's ability to use and continuously polish those skills and update the knowledge that matter.
@Falcon: it does seems to be exaggeration since i think even a layman or a non-financial person with good general knowledge must be aware of it.
i think" MBA" doesn't matter but the intuitions do.As well as they provide quality education.
One of the few great articles i have read on ET. I totally agree with the author. We are churning out MBAs which are good for nothing. Apart from the top tier, All universities are running commercial businesses where they dont want to fail students out of fear of losing business. As a result, we have below par MBA graduates who fail miserably at work. The HEC should do something about this. They need to screen the standard of these MBA programs and make sure that the value of a MBA degree withstands.
Completely agreed with above statements. I want to include one thing more, that institute should also focus on developing JOB PROVIDERS rather than JOB SEEKERS. I observed that in Pakistan Entrepreneurship culture is growing up since past two years, industries and universities should finance young students who are interested to start new ventures. This may create more job opportunities and will be good for Pakistan economically.
Universities in Pakistan need to start introducing co-op in their programs like all the Canadians Universities. It's not the university's name that matters nowadays unless you are from Oxbridge or Harvard. Its your work experience that counts. Here's the advice for all future engineers and business grads :)
Is the article exaggerating or is it really possible that an economics / MBA graduate does not know about the levers employed by the govt. to control inflation??? -
"he said once he asked an economics major from the London School of Economics during an interview how the government controlled inflation. “She was as clueless as any MBA from a Pakistani business school.”