Pakistan gave China access to 'stealth' chopper from Bin Laden raid: Report
The revelation, if confirmed, is likely to further shake the US-Pakistan relationship, which has been improving slightly after hitting its lowest point in decades following the May 2 Bin Laden raid.
During the raid, one of two modified Blackhawk helicopters, believed to employ unknown stealth capability, malfunctioned and crashed, forcing the commandos to abandon it.
"The US now has information that Pakistan, particularly the ISI, gave access to the Chinese military to the downed helicopter in Abbottabad," the paper quoted a person in intelligence circles as saying.
Pakistan, which enjoys a close relationship with China, allowed Chinese intelligence officials to take pictures of the crashed chopper as well as take samples of its special "skin" that allowed the American raid to evade Pakistani radar, the newspaper reported.
No one from the Pakistani army was available for comment, but the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI), Pakistan's top spy agency, denied the report. The paper said
Pakistan's top general, chief of army staff Ashfaq Kayani, denied that China had been given access.
The surviving tail section, photos of which were widely distributed on the Internet, was returned to the United States following a trip by US Senator John Kerry in May, a spokesman for the U.S. embassy told Reuters.
Shortly after the raid, Pakistan hinted that it might give China access to the downed chopper, given its fury over the raid, which it considers a grevious violation of its sovereignty.
"We had explicitly asked the Pakistanis in the immediate aftermath of the raid not to let anyone have access to the damaged remains of the helicopter," the Financial Times quoted the source as saying.
In an incident such as the helicopter crash, it is standard American procedure to destroy sophisticated technology such as encrypted communications and navigation computers.
Pakistan is a strategic ally to the United States but the relationship has been on a downward spiral since the killing of the al Qaeda leader in the raid by US forces.
Islamabad was not informed in advance and responded by cutting back on US trainers in the country and placing limits on CIA activities there.
In a show of displeasure over Pakistan's cutback in US trainers, its limits on visas for U.S. personnel and other bilateral irritants, the United States recently had suspended about a third of its $2.7 billion annual defense aid to Pakistan.
Despite this, both sides have tried to prevent a breakdown of relations.
The head of Pakistan's powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), Lieutenant-General Ahmad Shuja Pasha, visited the United States last month for talks with US government and intelligence officials, which both sides said went well.
Despite the billions in aid, Pakistan still considers China a more reliable ally than the United States.
China is a major investor in predominantly Muslim Pakistan in areas such as telecommunications, ports and infrastructure. The countries are linked by a Chinese-built road pushed through Pakistan's northern mountains.
Trade with Pakistan is worth almost $9 billion a year for Pakistan, and China is its top arms supplier.
In the wake of attacks that left 11 people dead in the China's western region of Xinjiang in late July, Pakistan had quickly dispatched Lieutenant-General Pasha to Beijing.
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@Alii:
Can you please "Elaborate" "Sovereign Territory", my respested Dear Alii
Mussarat
I think there's an error in the second-last line of this article. It should be 'Trade with China is worth almost $9 billion a year for Pakistan, and China is its top arms supplier.'
Dear all fellow pakistanis. Now western trolls are also entering this space. Take it easy, the story is a propaganda leak by US/Indian nexus, and is of course not true. Be cool and alert
@Shaqeel Jaunpuri: Might be. Although the japanese was provoked, but they stupidly did made first attack. Here the giant is wrong, and we must take a stand. Its our moral duty.
@Salman: Exactly. As a country we must demand full payment for the huge losses and help. And compensation for all the victims. The americans and europeans are benefitting hugely economically. What our socalled leaders have made of arrangements is totally on their own accounts.
@Nate Gupta: Pakistanis dont do. The corrupt leaders do. Leftovers from partitiom days
@My Name is Khan: You really need to get out of your shell. The problem with a lot of Indians like you is that they simply come to spew biased opinions without knowing the facts. Pakistan under a stronger democratic government should demand tens of billions on reparations for our sacrifices in defeating the Soviet Union, hastening its end, ending the Cold War and risk of nuclear armageddon and the damage that was done to Pakistan in the aftermath when the nation was left with all the criminals the West themselves brought in to defeat the Soviets! You may not know all these things from you home in India but since you like to comment on a Pak newspaper site, try to do your homework first!
Now stealth helicopter will be sold in mandi in Kilos.......haha.After all china is the country who gave Nucler technology to Pak and Pak is also generous by doing so.
@Delhi Belly: Very well said.
@ All Pakistanis who want US to be our daddy, listen up we know that your children and more are living in USA, and their so use to cleaning up washrooms that now just like them you want the entire nation to do so, so listen up now, we don't want to and its our choice whom so ever we choose as our friends. and for God sake's who ever commented on that aid money they pay you !! grow up YOU are a HIT MAN, they pay you're government to kill
What will be the future of technology towards Pakistan from rest of the world . Even China will treat it as Mir Kasim .How China will have faith on a country with doubtful integrity , The value of integrity is being demonstrated by ANNA in India , SEE IT ON THE T V . Screen , Its not a false flag operation , Its a revolution in modern Iodia . AHIMSA , Pakistan not even have dream of it .
@Mohammad Ali Siddiqui:
China has a stealth fighter which can be viewed on-line. I am not sure about a stealth helicopter which is more challenging because of the many moving parts.
Please dont trust China !
@Alii: You are one hundred and one percent right, my friend. My Salams to you.
Well set hte records straight, US does an opearion on PK land without informing, there occurs an accident of on eof its helicopters, PK should and can do anything with it, and i am sure they must have shared it with CHina and also internally with our development labs. No big deal, that is very proper. US must have thought about this risk so they should be ok with it too. All countires and their agencies work on tit for tat, we must have or will get something in return from the Chinese. All are here to gain not to loose !!!
Vienna,15-08-2011 Yes Sir; I do not see anything wrong in showing wreckage and ruins. After all Pakistan brought Watergate President of the United States of America and the Little Red book Chairman Mao together. Both USA and the Mandarin Proletariat Dictatorship of the Peoples Republic of China are bound to feel ever grateful. Taravadu Taranga Trust for Media Monitoring,TTTMM India --Kulamarva Balakrishna
@Cautious: Finders are keepers; in this case they were intruders.
Third world country pawns super power.
In Dubai, you can see a lot of China-made iPad clones in many shops. They are available for 350 Dirhams. (Available in a mall called 'DragonMart'. Bus X23 goes there from Al Ghubaiba Bus Station.)
They look sleek, just like the original iPad. The screen is touch-adaptive, the screens move fast. Runs on Android . I was about to buy one till the salesguy told me that the product comes with a 10-day warranty !
China will give Pakistan stealth planes made with stolen technology, but, they won't work when you need it !
@Mirza: It really IS you know :)
@wrong - get your facts straight first before posting such broad statements. Pakistan is not living on anyone's money...
I am proud of our military - They need to develop a weapon always aiming at the back of the US (stabbing at moments notice)
@Mirza: Thanks for the update and your comments which are always apt and logical. Hope ET publishes the said article, which should attract some interesting comments from both sides.
To The Moderator: Where are my comments on this news. Are they more hurting than what others have penned down with majority as fake names.:
@Muhammad Saifullah Khalid: How much and I repeat how much even the educated have been brain washed. God help.
A news story about what happened in Abbottabad, and the stealth chopper.If the chopper would not have crashed, the news would be "drone attack killed OBL". The chopper crash exposed the complicity of CIA and ISI.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8693111/Osama-bin-Laden-protected-by-Pakistan-in-return-for-Saudi-cash.html The news would keep coming out till we tell our side of the story openly, truthfully and honestly. I hope Pakistanis deserve the truth from their agencies.
To My Indian Commenters : I am sometimes surprised by comments by some of us. And not just us but certain few Pakistanis too. Every news article discussion starts with some generic comment and trickles down to bashing each other with words filled with hatred and wishful thinking for the complete failure of the other. Last few comments about finger pointing that Pakistan is doomed now that USA will punish it for letting Chinese access the wreckage is seriously rude. Only reflects our insecurity towards them. What do we have to fear from this news frankly? And it is in my humble opinion USA's loss the right to preach once it took certain matter in it's own hand and crossed a line. If something like this would have happened in India would we even return the part ? What would be our reaction. In world were basic intellectual property like Operating Systems are heavily patented so that capitalist country thrive and others keep on paying an industrial espionage is bound to happen. There will always be two side, a capitalist imperial society and rest of them the rebels who will do anything like hacking and espionage to bring the other down. Anyways coming to the point this is as I pointed earlier a complete personal to Pakistan. Any reaction by us Indians on this matter unless constructive criticism is unwarrented. I expect more from my fellow country men and also from fellow Pakistani bloggers to try little hard and avoid straying the topic to daily mud slinging. Peace to all.
The transfer of latest technology to China by Pakistan will not be taken lightly by US who considers China as its greatest competitor both in the fields of defence and economy and is much wary of its continues rise in military preparedness. Pakistan should gear-up itself not only for denial of further aid but also stoppage of defence equipment and its spares which would be a great setback for its failing economy and defence preparedness.
On the way to get declared a terrorist state by USA.
Reverse engineering or what ever Chinese themselves are reluctant to use their own manufactured fighter planes and they are selling these planes planes to only to Pakistan and north Korea .Chinese themselves are using around 100 Russian Sukoi 30 planes India is also using Sukoi 30MKI(or Sukoi 35)and has around 400 or them.So Chinese themselves do not their chinese maal.They are using only Russian hardware in all their forces be it navy,air force or infantry.
Teach your pilots more. Next time it could be a Mogadishu style dragging
Dear USA,
That's what you get for violating our sovereignty without any shame or remorse. That chopper became our property the moment it violated our air space. You ought to keep your military toys in your own backyard if you don't want things like this happen. Serves you right for poking your nose where it doesn't belong!!!
@Amjad: ya we and the whole world have no job other than destabilizing your country. If not tens, there are hundreds of countries in the why the hell this new born Pakistan puts its nose in all the matters of the worlds stage and get its butt burned. Just try and lead normal life on day by day basis, you can not have vision for by years basis as the way your country is going on. People around the world are busy working hard, making their children to get good education, good health care and prosperous life. But you guys already achieved the record of transferring Nuclear technology to two countries. Disturbing the peace of the planet earth! Get a life !
Finders keepers, losers weepers.
Next time US should hit hard at Pakistan, so that it never ever again goes to ask help from others and it forgets the past and future as well. Such an evil mentality and playing with big players is not a kind of sharing few candies and petty fights. They will tear you apart when time comes, and will loose yourself in due process. Sooner you understand, better it is.
Pakistan has once again demonstrated that it is a nation with no sense of gratitude whatsoever.
@ Zain Kamran
it is US which is giving you the much needed aid. China can only be a fair weathered friend. When India and Pakistan fought, they chose to look the other way.
Pakistan has the right to handover the access to any nation as this stealth is not part of American Aid
@ Ajmad - please stop being so delusional brother. Not everything wrong in Pakistan is due to the Indians. Contrary to the lies you have been taught, India was not responsible for last year's floods - Mother Nature was. Contrary to the lies you have been taught, PNS Mehran was not someone else's fault but rather our own Armed Forces' "feebleness".
Let's stop kidding ourselves. Why do we Pakistani's deserve reparations? For what? For supplying terrorists to the rest of the world? Stop beating your chest and grow a brain before you make all of us Pakistanis look dumb.
We have lots of our own problems to fix.
Can someone please explain to me what are the bare minimum ethics, morals or soul of the Pakistan state ? Is there anything thats not on sale ?
What do you expect? The term "moral fabric" would be something that you make a shirt out of in Pakistan. If a nation is run like the D-Company, it is Pakistan.
there is no surprising at all. @Alii:
if you are feeding, eating, living, with america's money, asking for money in the name of WOT, then you have no right to question America's abottobad raid.
@Cautious. Do you even care to read your comments before you post them. While I am all delighted that US killed that uber terrorist OBL yet USA did come in to our territory unannounced and left their merchandise behind. What does honesty and integrity have to do with Pakistan sharing details of the aircraft with China? Did we sign a pact with the US government that they can come into our land without telling us, kill a dude and then if they left something behind we are bound to return it to them. Is there an international law which dictates the same?
@Alii: You said, "If it falls on our sovereign territory, its ours to give to whom we please." I like your reply, because you did not try to make excuses and you have a clear statement. Good that you are not approving being sneaky or a liar. "The truth would set you free" as the holy books say. Nice to see somebody is making a truthful statment whether we agree on it or not. One can only wish that the establishment also make a clear, truthful statment. Thanks and regards, Mirza
well why did USA's infiltrate our territory? And since they did, Pakistan has the right to stretch the cords atleast by taking its preventive measures. I think its good if Pakistan allowed China access to the plane, its well within our right!
@Mohammad Ali Siddiqui: As far as China's technological knowhow is concerned it has only retrofitted an old USSR made aircraft carrier this week! China is the only member of Security Council that does not have a single aircraft carrier, let alone making one. China is making fast progress but in the electronics and heavy equipment it is way behind. In fact it is the largest market for the US aircraft manufacturers. http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-first-aircraft-carrier-makes-maiden-sea-trial-000047792.html @Gul Khan: Of course we ask these questions in the US media and in the senate regularly. However, we are still waiting for the Pakistani ISI to come clean on Ray Davis's case among many others. The swift "justice" that was provided to him by the Punjab Courts was faster than a rocket. Why? Is that also the US fault that each and every person sold themselves? Regards, Mirza
Focusing on Abbottabad --- how's that OBL investigation coming? Last I recall the Director of the ISI decided to visit China rather than appear before the Commission --- and then nothing. Thought this was a high priority investigation where Pakistan was going to get to the bottom of the fiasco? Perhaps Pakistan has figured out that the USA isn't going to buy off on any more lies so why go through with the charade?
The USA is not a pushover paper tiger. To underestimate their ability and resolve, is to delude oneself. . I will leave you with a quote from the immediate aftermath of the Pearl Harbor attack. This from a Japanese Naval Marshal General, who had been educated at Harvard University. . You would suspect, that he fully knew, exactly what he spoke of: "I fear that all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." - ISOROKU YAMAMOTO
It makes me mad and angry at the foolishness of Pakistanis who blame America for crossing the line and taking out the worst terrorist in modern history!
Osama killed many Pakistanis and many innocent civilians so how dare you blame America! You think the Pakistani Army would have taken him out? RUBBISH! The Pakistani Army cannot and will not do anything!
Pathetic, no wonder our country is failing!
Typical double gaming tactics of Pakistan,. Earlier it is US and Taliban, Now it is US and China,
Realist says "Never believe anything until it has been officially denied."
Super!
America you crossed the RED LINE then why should Pakistan listen to you????
Your request was denied...deal with it!!!
@Nate Gupta: and what about US, it begs the money from IMF and Worldbank, it's economy is debt based, 2.5 Trillion Dollars Debt and for your information China is the biggest buyer of American bond, India seeks aid from all over the world, receiver of US and UK Aid..happy independence day!! cheers!
@Cautious: Actually Pak had no obligation to even give the wreckage back. Remember how the US tried & succeed in raising up the sunk Red navy nuke sub a way while back?Live & deal with it! Hypocracy is worst than corruption. In any case, did not land on the rock, the rock landed on us.
@ Nate Gupta
why are you such a moron. Pakistan reserves right to take money as much as we want since we are fighting their war , we provide them air space, logistics and supply materials to their bases both in Pakistan and Afghanistan. On the other hand, Pakistan has lost billions and more then the money it is the peace which is being missed now...... just because of American war. Hence we reserved right to demand compensation. Call it as an aid or what ever, this money is our right! every thing comes up with the price
@Bama: "Kudos! We should continue to work with China over the untrustworthy and arrogant Americans"
"We should work with Americans to teach the untrustworthy and arrogant Indians". I hope you remember this pld mistake that your policy makers committed after independence.
In world politics a country keeps its interest first and no countries are friends (only allies as long as each others interests are served). Were Saudis, Americans your friends all the while? Will China be a friend? Will any country be a friend? Countries can only be allies. In an alliance, the stronger country's interest are served first than the weaker's. If China (or any other ally country) feels that your demands hurts its interest, do you think China will back your demand?Pakistan's best bet is to ally with a weaker country (in commerce, in international standing) than itself.
Thank you for continuing to censor anti-Armed Forces comments. It seems like the ISI is breathing down ET's throat. I'm so sorry to hear that.
Moral of the story is dont voilate international law and terrirotial sovereignity. Something too complicated for dumb Americans to understand.
And what does this news or accusation by USA going to do ? If not through Pakistan, China would have got this from USA itself as we have seen in past how they successfully espionage USA 's most preserved R&D. If not China then Russia, or any country which is in super power race with USA. In Mid 1900s we saw high level of industrial espionage by USA and Russia, so this game is not new. Only the best one wins. At this moment China is best. So right now China has money, it will buy, borrow or steal technology , improvise on it and expand on it. Tomorrow China will come out of something indigenous and others will try to or successfully steal it and invent it. Typically in a classroom, a weak person will side with class Bully hoping that he will get protection from him and under his umbrella he can intimidate others. Such people are only as successful as long as they stay aligned with those bully. Sad thing is Pakistan has always taken a pride on their bully friend's achievement. Please dont take this as offense. But in Past when Pakistan aligned itself a super power USA it always sided it's success believing that America's success will benefit it. Now their new allegiance is with China, so whatever is good for China, Pakistan believes will trickle down to it and it will reap the benefit of their success. The SAD part is that Pakistan takes pride in someone else's success and rejoices someone else's failure. But will not try to be pride on it's own success and correct it's own failure. And this is EXACTLY TRUE FOR INDIA. India and Pakistan both needs to invest on their own success rather than aligning themselves to stronger bully friends. The world certainly does not revolve around India and Pakistan. But our war has benefited many other than our own people. We get busy in fighting and just buying weapons , never though of spending money on infrastucture and R&D to take pride on our own achievement. Our achievement is still defined by feudal era competition based on who gets a piece of land. Carry on. With 1.7 billion cumulative population we are too big to be eradicated. That is our only true achievement. Sigh!. Peace to all.
Just read the comments of Americans in response to this news
http://news.yahoo.com/pakistan-let-china-see-stealth-chopper-bin-laden-182139386.html
they hate Pakistan & Pakistanis more than we hate them...
Pakistan has more technology than US but we lack funds due to corruption that's it if someone don't agrees with it, just think of a calm, peaceful and NOT Corrupt Pakistan...
Am I missing something - The USA, a supposed ally in the war on terror, didnt trust Pakisan enough to share information about the planned raid in the country yet the USA is upset that Pakistan allowed China access to the stealth helicopter. Why is everyone getting worked up. Its a game of deciet and one upmanship and there are never any high moral grounds, they never exist. Every player is zeroed in for individual interest and honesty and integrity take the backseat. The honesty and intregity of each is proportionate to the credibility of the media backing up their veiwpoints as such the USA comes out the most honest - damn the truth.
Be ready to face the risk of Pakistani-ISI being listed as terror organization in UN.
There is too much nationalism and jingoism in these comments. Yes America should have gotten permission for the raid, but they did us a favor in getting rid of a wanted terrorist who probably would have escaped yet again.
My fellow Pakistani's need to stop thining of China as a friend. They are the masters and we are slavesin this relationship. They took a part of our Kashmir, and they only help us to counteract China. Do not think for a second they will treat us any different than America.
When the floods happened, Americans contributed the most money while the Chinese gave very little. Unless it serves their purpose, they are not our friends.
When will you learn this? It is the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality. I just wish more of you could see that.
Pakistan : Blackmailers-par-excellence, but pathetic denial-issuers!
Hell yeah! you violate our border and then in return you expect us not to behave and return in kind... S* you =D yes, we did let them take the samples and in future will do the same, just like you Americans play double with us when it comes to Taliban, remember those back door negotiations you guys have been doing ? Once again Job well done ISI S* USA as much as you can
@Mirza Did you ask the same question when Raymond was proved an undercover CIA agent while Obama told on TV to the whole world that he was a diplomat. I am sure you did not. I think the president of a super power country should not have lied to the whole world.
@Cautious: I wouldn't be surprised if this report is yet another feeble attempt by devious Indians to malign Pakistan. Their lackeys in the US and in the West are doing their best to demonize Pakistan but they forget that Pakistan is really the key to the region. And yes if anyone should be upset it is Pakistan. We were used and abused by the West while we helped to end Soviet rule over Afghanistan. We ended the Cold War and made the world safer. In the process Pakistan was abandoned after it too was destabilized. How dare anyone in the West or India pass judgement judgement on Pakistan when they know the facts. Pakistan deserves tens of billions in reparations and forgiving of all loans more than any of the South European basket cases who are bankrupt!
The book "Bible " teaches that "Everybody carries his cross on his own back." (Like Lord Jesus Christ). China is going to be "the cross " for US and Pakistan. They have been carrying it since 1969 (Nixon days). US is already feeling the pinch.
The kids of ISI officers would have loved to fly in this stealth chopper - to hide from their teachers. But, sadly so, Chinese got the hold of some pieces from the aircraft and lots of photographs as well. We knew that. Americans are kinda slow nowadays. And no one should blame the CIA. Sadly, this government is considering budget cuts across the board.
If ISI Cheif denied about access to the helicopter, then what's behind now. So close this Chapter of Access.
Apart for whether we gave China the access or not, when would we finally start telling the truth? The world is not a fool and we have to fully understand that. Is it asking too much to tell the truth?
Kudos! We should continue to work with China over the untrustworthy and arrogant Americans. The American's treat a "strategic" ally with humiliation and disrespect. Let them fend for themselves. The so-called aid is pennies on the dollar....we really can do without it!
Well, DUH?!
O really !!!
I thought Pakistan even didn't have the access to this stealth chopper. lols
TIT for TAT... Americans must be aware of this for sure.. if not they are prob. now! First they invade your land. Kill people in a style they like.. than after leavin they raise a claim: Haye!!! Dont touch that broken piece of metal. Its Precious Cargo! :)
yeahh! I challenged a number of people on this! hence proved. Now china will make hundreds of these through reverse engineering and give it to PAK! LONG LIVE CHINA-PAKISTAN FRIENDSHIP !
Yet more 'selective leaks' from the 'anonymous officials' in the US Establishment.
If the US-Pak relationship is at its nadir, look no further than the war mongering US Establishment and the CIA-Military industrial complex to determine the major causes behind the fallout.
When the US Establishment refuses to end its smear campaign and propaganda vilifying Pakistan, how on earth can Pakistan and its military-intelligence institutions trust the US?
America has nothing new and nothing more than China or Pakistan.
That what happens when you barge in. Serve you right, America.
Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.
All would say we are our own worst enemies!!
It should not be a matter of concern whether US or any other country that Pakistan has or has not shared with China about the ‘stealth’ chopper which malfunctioned and crashed during OBL raid.
As the web have made the entire world as global village, once can always search about how to make an atom bomb, what to talk about the US ‘stealth technology’.
I am sure that China would have known long time back about the ‘stealth technology’ and probably may have much more advanced choppers than what US has today.
Well honesty and integrity are not things that Pakistan is noted for - are they? .. No doubt the American's got wind of this as it was happening -- and just one more reason that no one trust Pakistan. .. America and Pakistan have at least one thing in common - both view China as a better ally than each other.