Muslim future in India

Published: January 15, 2011
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The writer is a director at the South Asia Free Media Association, Lahore 
khaled.ahmed@tribune.com.pk

The writer is a director at the South Asia Free Media Association, Lahore [email protected]

It has become a part of our nationalism to highlight communal trouble in India. We don’t realise that this kind of thinking is not good for the Muslims there. Scholars think that if India and Pakistan proceed on their hostile course and threaten each other with nuclear weapons, Muslims in India will face the possibility of subordination, expulsion and genocide.

This is gleaned from the history of what happened to such minorities elsewhere in the world. But if things remain normal, the Muslims of India will face the following four options: assimilation, pluralism, secession and dominance. This is the thesis of the volume Living with Secularism: The Destiny of India’s Muslims: Edited by Mushirul Hasan; (Manohar, India, 2007).

The following Indian states have Muslim minorities, as indicated by percentages: Assam (28 per cent), Kerala (23 per cent) West Bengal (23 per cent), Uttar Pradesh (17.3 per cent), Bihar (16 per cent) and Karnataka (16 per cent). Needless to say the largest number live in UP, where the total population is more than that of Pakistan.

Indian scholar Mushirul Hasan wrote, Will secular India survive? (2004) and challenged the doctrine of Hindutva spread around by the BJP. After 2004, Hindutva has not gone away. It threatens the Muslims more than the other communities because: 1) Muslims are the largest religious minority in India and the latter has the second largest Muslim population in the world; 2) Muslims are erstwhile rulers of India and the memory presents them as a threat to the Hindu majority; 3) Muslims are considered as members of a settler colony by Sangh Pariwar; 4) Muslims get excluded because of majoritarian nationalism with Pakistan as the ‘other’, and because Indian Muslims are seen as a separatist population; 5) Muslims are targets of all communal riots; 6) Muslims serve as instruments of Hindu unity under Hindutva because India is presented as being under threat from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir; 7) Muslims spoil the Indian monolithic identity as a Hindu Rashtra and are an obstacle in India’s unification.

What will happen to the Muslims of India? Muslim threat is expressed by the fact that their population, although only 13 per cent of the total, has grown to this number in fifty years, more quickly as compared to the Hindus. Is this fear comparable to the Christian fear of ethnic supersession by Muslims through birth rate, aroused in Lebanon after 1943, ending in the civil war of 1975-88? There is a Muslim majority in Kashmir and large Muslim minorities in West Bengal and Assam near the border of an adjoining Muslim state that equally arouses fear and loathing.

Southern and coastal India don’t hate the Muslims as much as the Indian north and northwest, but may begin to have communal riots as the BJP and its friends spread their influence there. It is possible that the Muslims may actually be squeezed into the coastal areas in the South to join the non-threatening ‘middlemen Muslims’: Memons, Khojas, Bohras, Navayats, Marakayyars, Lebais, Rawthors and Mapillas. They pose no threat to the majority dominance.

Muslims in Hyderabad, Bhopal and Junagadh are humorously equated to past elite but they are, in fact, local poor Hindu converts who can never challenge Hindus unless they step out of poverty and acquire education.

But the final solution lies in Indo-Pakistan relations. Conceptual solutions don’t appeal in South Asia because the social sciences have been neglected here. Indirect solutions, like free trade that brings prosperity to the masses, and getting rid of the paranoia of the state — read dominance of intelligence agencies — could normalise relations and remove the fear of war and save the Muslims of India from being persecuted.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 16th,  2011.

Reader Comments (222)

  • Jan 16, 2011 - 12:19AM

    An interesting article.

    I think Indian Muslims have been one of the greatest living tragedies of the partition. Whilst those Muslims living in Pakistan have enjoyed (I use that term loosely) a majority state, those in India have spent decades as second class citizens at best. With the continuous tides of Hindu nationalism that constantly sweep across the country, I don’t ever see the plight of Muslims changing there.

    Despite notable Muslims in politics, industry, entertainment and so forth, these Muslims in India have had to cower in the face of Hindutva. Almost be apologetic of their success or talent. In India, Hrithik Roshan is regarded in greater esteem than Shah Rukh Khan, despite the latter being a global superstar. Why? You only need glance at their religions to understand.

    In the case of Babri Masjid, the fact that religion triumphed over fact is another example of how ingrained Hindu superiority is in Indian society. Yes, better Indo-Pak relations would help immensely – but I don’t see Pakistan as being all that sympathetic to the Indian Muslim cause.

    India is a country built on subjugation and hierarchy. Where these is widespread corruption, a mass population, competition and greed – those at the top need those at the bottom to stay where they are in order to cement their own position. While this remains, the Muslims and the Dalits will remain on the bottom step of the social, economical and political ladders.Recommend

  • Mom
    Jan 16, 2011 - 12:30AM

    Hindu businessman builds mosque in Kerala, spreads Gita message

    Thanks for mentioning about Kerala state in India!Recommend

  • Ali
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:21AM

    lol!
    you’re talking about savings muslims of India from being persecuted!
    What about the Muslims of Pakistan – we seem to be in graver danger at this point!Recommend

  • Sara
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:34AM

    GoodRecommend

  • Ronit
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:38AM

    wow!!…typical India hating article, I think you should come to India to see that muslims here are living in a better condition than in Pakistan….and you wrote

    Muslims in Hyderabad, Bhopal and Junagadh are humorously equated to past elite but they are, in fact, local poor Hindu converts who can never challenge Hindus unless they step out of poverty and acquire education.

    Aren’t all the muslims in Sub Continent “Hindu Converts????….like Jinnah and Iqbal(both of them were second generation muslims)Recommend

  • Anoop
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:39AM

    What was the reason and the point of this article?

    The Indian State and the Constitution which guides it offer all minorities equal protection.

    No Indian Muslim has to sign such kind of insulting document such as this to get a Passport, for instance:

    http://changinguppakistan.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/picture-2.png

    All those people, including the Author(who I am guessing has a passport), are personally responsible for discriminating against the Ahmadiya Community. Are you not ashamed?

    Infact, Shias, Ahmadiya and Sufi strains of Islam are far safer in India than in Islamic Pakistan.

    3000+ people died in Pakistan in 2009, expected to be far more in 2010, due to idealogical and Religious reasons. How many have died in India for similar reasons in 2009 and 2010? Recommend

  • Indian
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:52AM

    Look at the audacity of Pakistanis. What is the future of Muslims in the land of the “pure” – Pakisatan?

    Miyan apna ghar sambhalo pahleRecommend

  • Azad A
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:54AM

    Hello there… I live in India and I am happy and proud to be living here… and really really lucky to be living far away from the mess you have … Recommend

  • Indian, Bangkok
    Jan 16, 2011 - 2:38AM

    Dear Mr. Khalid,
    With so much love for Indian muslims and apprehension for their possible future, you can take them to pakistan where they will not have to fear Hindus.

    As early as possible

    Indian, BangkokRecommend

  • Mir Agha
    Jan 16, 2011 - 3:47AM

    Saving the muslims in india from ‘persecution’ is their problem. Pakistan needs to act in its own interests and security, whatever it may mean for the muslims in india. Pakistanis need to understand that Pakistan is now an independent country. Besides the 7% ‘migrant’ population (even then 60 plus years of removing yourself from the internal dynamics of india they should stop interjecting themselves), no one in Pakistan should give a hoot. It creates more problems for Pakistan than its solves. Whatever happens to muslims in india is the problem of india, if at all there is a problem.

    Meanwhile, lets focus on ALL in Pakistan, and help ourselves step out of poverty and ignorance.Recommend

  • singh
    Jan 16, 2011 - 6:35AM

    Please save Muslim & Islam in Pakistan first then think about other.Recommend

  • Atif bajwah
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:02AM

    Salam . I believe until and unless the Muslims in India don’t enjoy real freedom in all aspects of life ; two nation theory the only ideology on which pakistan came into being would remain a question mark ???Recommend

  • ravi
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:53AM

    why you people are so obsesed with muslims in particular across the border. Just look at your own minorities. Muslims in india even after so called persecution have been increasing at a high birth rate that hindus as a whole. We gave them right to live .But what happened to hindus chrirtians and other minorities of pakistan they were either forcefully converted after partition or they were brutally killed.
    Such things can seen from various population stats of pakistan over the years.
    Minorities in india have the right to live but MINORITIES in PAKISTAN DONT. Recommend

  • carvak
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:56AM

    India and Pakistan proceed on their hostile course and threaten each other with nuclear weapons, Muslims in India will face the possibility of subordination, expulsion and genocide.

    we had 4 wars , couple of “on the brink of war” , a number of terrorist attacks in india which were directly or indirectly linked to pakistan. except for the first war of ’47-’48 where some muslims were under surveillance (it happened just after the partition) I don’t see any sign of major hostility towards muslims because of tension with pakistan. neither I see any trend that will be the case in future .

    this is not to say that all are honky dory .

    muslims may have a lot of advantages and disadvantages to be Indians but I don’t see any reason to believe that india-pakistan relationship has a major factor to play in that.

    there is also a valid question whether extremism (which has a political and religious overtone) is growing in india.
    given the fact that It was always there since at least the birth of muslim league ( Hindu mahasabha came into existence within a decade) in pre partitioned india and post partition – is hindu-muslim hostility is growing with time india ?

    may be it is possible to argue for both yes and no. but my understanding is despite terror attacks and riots mistrust and hostility is decreasing . Recommend

  • Rajat
    Jan 16, 2011 - 9:24AM

    With all due respects to the writer, what you say totally wrong. Indian muslims are quite different than the Pakistani Muslim(I say this with conviction, due to my experiences with muslims in my school and college and the interaction with Pakistani bloggers). If what you say are indeed true- Large scale genocide would have happened as a consequence of Kargil War in 1999. Riots would have spread all over India in the aftermath of Mumbai attacks, Growth rate of muslims would have been much lower than Hindus. The very fact this did not happen proves the contrary- that we don’t clump our muslims with all the nonsense you guys do. We respect them and are proud that they form an essential part of our community. The only part that I agree with the author is that a small part of the hindu populace have become extremist and started with the ideology of “bomb ka sawaal bomb se denge”. Our moderate majority is not silent, and the onus is on us to ensure that this sickening ideology does not spread to the masses. The effects of the majority becoming extreme is devastating. This is one area we can study our neighbours.

    My 2 paisa on it- Its just another article by a Pakistani who feels that all the worlds problems can be solved by mollifying Pakistan. Recommend

  • Ajaya Dutt
    Jan 16, 2011 - 9:36AM

    Muslims have more protection than any minority anywhere in the subcontinent. Be it Hindus in Pakistan, Bangla Desh, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Kashmir, Punjab or “Christian Belt” (as phrased by Los Angeles Times). Or more than in United States, Europe or UK. I cannot think of supporters of Osama expressing their support in United States or United Kingdom; as resolutely faced demonstrators do in “Jantar Mantar” “in support of our Kashmiri Brothers” for convicted terrorists of Parliament attack.

    Can anybody imagine a police officer killed by terrorists be scrutinized in any of the European countries as Inspector Sharma was in Batala House encounter.

    India has been subject of Islamic terrorism far more than Europe and it shall never resort to what can and does happen in Europe and United States. It shall not, because the fundamental principal of India is based on Humanity, not faith based doctrine.

    I cannot imagine Muslims women abducted, raped and converted in India because India is “Dar-Ul-Insaan” and thank God it is not “Dar-Ul-whatever”.
    Recommend

  • bvindh
    Jan 16, 2011 - 10:48AM

    “Muslims are erstwhile rulers of India and the memory presents them as a threat to the Hindu majority”
    –when one says “former rulers of India”, the first thing that comes to hindu’s mind is English not muslims. Hindus by and large consider muslims(Akbar would probably be an exception) as thick-skulled brutes who brawled around whenever they had an opportunity. None consider muslims being capable of being rulers(one look at the muslim nations of the world would give a good basis for that opinion)
    “Muslims get excluded because of majoritarian nationalism with Pakistan as the ‘other’, and because Indian Muslims are seen as a separatist population”
    –they indded are. considering that in 1946, 89.2% of muslims favored pakistan and not all of them relocated. besides, how many pakistani hindu/sikh people willingly do covert work for india?on the otherhand, you find dozens of indian muslims who betray india for the sake of islamiat.
    “Muslims are targets of all communal riots”
    –I am from Hyderabad Deccan and never did I see a single communal riot start in a hindu majority area.
    “Muslims spoil the Indian monolithic identity as a Hindu Rashtra and are an obstacle in India’s unification.”
    –indeed!! muslims never accept a uniform civil code.
    “Muslim threat is expressed by the fact that their population, although only 13 per cent of the total, has grown to this number in fifty years, more quickly as compared to the Hindus”
    –naturally, the unproductive part of the population, not being good at anything else, reproduces the most.Recommend

  • Syed Sabihur Rahman
    Jan 16, 2011 - 11:09AM

    Indian Muslims have far better entitlements to equality in India than certain Muslim sects can ever aspire for in Pakistan, which was verified by the act of the creation of Bangladesh. Moreover, the author has naively overlooked the facts that the “Hindutva” forces in India have faced 2 successive defeats in the elections to the National Assembly, and even when they were at their prime and India went to war with Pakistan subsequent to the latter’s invasion of Kargil, the Indian Muslims were as passionately involved in the conflict as everyone else in India, which was emphatically symbolized by the then Chief of India’s nuclear program being a Muslim. It is disheartening to learn that our Pakistani neighbors are still living in a Disneyland of amateurish notions about Hindu-Muslim hostility superseding the will to grow in synergy, a premise which first led to the cleaving off of Pakistan from India and its subsequent descent into the abyss of anarchy. Recommend

  • MilesToGo
    Jan 16, 2011 - 11:48AM

    The way things are going, the focus must be on Muslims future in Pakistan. Don’t give up yet. The fight has just begun.Recommend

  • Shuaib
    Jan 16, 2011 - 12:20PM

    Sir please do your research before you write such articles – India does not have the world’s second largest Muslim population, rather Pakistan does – as of most recent statistics. Hence it would be a false argument to say there are more Muslims in India than PakistanRecommend

  • Jan 16, 2011 - 12:45PM

    @author
    The future of muslims in india will certainly be better than the muslims of pakistan. Atleast they dont kill each other in the name of Islam..The indian Mullahs are sensible enough not to spread hatred against different sects of their community and that has kept the community intact.I think that is because of the minimal interfererence of the external forces( read Saudi Arabia and Iran) in their religious mattersRecommend

  • Usman Ahmad
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:38PM

    Very agreeable!Recommend

  • Moin
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:43PM

    One of the funniest articles I have read for a long time. Just try to save the people in pakistan, the muslims in India are very happy and secure in India than anywhere in the world.Recommend

  • Salim
    Jan 16, 2011 - 1:54PM

    First we should learn to treat minorities like humans in Pakistan. Only we should talk about the state of Muslims as minorities in other countries like India.Recommend

  • abhitosh
    Jan 16, 2011 - 2:02PM

    Its funny to see so many Pakistanis worried about Indian Muslims.
    It is a fact that Muslims in India are far happier and enjoy a high standard of life compared to people of Pakistan (who are living in deep poverty and looming danger).
    Its high time that Pakistanis start researching about their own future!Recommend

  • Jan 16, 2011 - 2:17PM

    You seem to have forgotten the constant bomb explosions in Mosques in Pakistan.
    Is that considered as good treatment?Recommend

  • Jan 16, 2011 - 2:19PM

    Mr Khaled Ahmed feels that India-Pak tensions are not good for Muslims in India. That’s a very narrow thought indeed!

    •Why worry only about Muslims in India? What about the poor in both countries irrespective of the religion they follow? Who benefits from the perennial arms race while the money could better be spent alleviating the poor!
    •Why look at all issues from the religious viewpoint? Has Pakistan, despite being a Muslim country, secured peace for itself? Religious homogeneity doesn’t guarantee peace and prosperity, policies ensuring roti, kapda aur makaan (food, clothes and shelter) to the people does!
    •The article by Mr Ahmed isn’t in sync with the state of affairs in Pakistan. It’s instead a diversion. Please safeguard liberals in Pakistan instead Mr Ahmed, which is of utmost priority.
    •Mr Ahmed’s concern about the BJP in India is a clear indication of his scant feel of the pulse of the Indian electorate. Had Hindutva been a successful electoral plank, no other party but the BJP could have ever ruled India. But that’s not so!
    •How the Sangh Parivar views the Muslims in India has little bearing on how the general public views them. Too simplistic Mr Ahmed!
    •Mr Ahmed’s assumption that Muslims spoil the Indian monolithic identity as a Hindu Rashtra is surprising! India is a secular nation and has taken pains to safeguard related principles enshrined in the constitution whenever they have come under threat. We don’t need no certificate to prove that!

    Liberal thought is no longer safe in Pakistan Mr Ahmed. But liberals in India are the majority; a majority that’s not silent. It speaks, openly in the media as well as through the ballot!

    Aman Sharma
    Twitter id : @amancool5Recommend

  • Jan 16, 2011 - 2:25PM

    Please have a look at the conditions minorities in Pakistan are living under.Recommend

  • PK
    Jan 16, 2011 - 2:29PM

    ROFL!! hahahhaahhaaaa
    This person surely don’t know India..Recommend

  • Azad A
    Jan 16, 2011 - 2:31PM

    I live in India and I am very happy and pround to be living in India.. and consider myself extremely lucky to be far away from the mess you have there.. instead of worrying about people in other countries, please find a way to make lives of people better there.Recommend

  • Paras Vikmani
    Jan 16, 2011 - 2:50PM

    atleast indian muslims r secular!! thnk god for tht…luk @ pakistan…they r salutin taseer’s muderer!!Recommend

  • Anurag
    Jan 16, 2011 - 3:09PM

    I am reminded of Maulana Madni who chided General Musharaf when he in Indian Today seminar at Delhi tried to sympathise with Indian muslims over their fate in Hindu majority India. Madni told him in plain terms to mind his own business as Indian muslims are quite capable of looking after themselves because they believe that 90% of Indian Hindus believe in genuine secularism and are prepared to side with Muslim brethren in their cause. Indian muslims are a priviledged class in India and get special status thanks to Congress Party’s vote bank politics.Recommend

  • Raqib Ali
    Jan 16, 2011 - 4:52PM

    Authors and our Indian (and even Pakistani) friends have the habit of making sweeping statements. When Amir Khan said in Bollywood film that there are more Muslims in India than Pakistan (he says this to a ‘Muhajir’ Singer Naseer ud Din Shah from Pakistan), everyone should realise that a FILMI DIALOGUE doesn’t mean a reality.

    If population of Pakistan is 180 Million (97% Muslim), how come India’s 150 Million Muslims more than Pakistani Muslims??????????????????????????????????????????????????Recommend

  • Ram
    Jan 16, 2011 - 4:56PM

    Absolutely erroneous article. Muslims are given privileges such as free education, preferential treatment for government jobs, etc. because they are a minority. They can vote, have their own businesses with full protection of the law, and Hindus does go to muslim shops and purchase.

    Here is the real problem Muslims will have in India. They are becoming more and more religious fanatics and radicals. Kerala where I grew up, there was harmony between all, can’t say the same on my last visit. I have boatload of Muslim friends and I visit them when I go, I asked them why this is happening and the answer is “too much money from the gulf and no one listens to their elders”. The real question is what happens when these elders with a sense of society passes on and selfishness, fanaticism and radicalism takes over and that is the real danger, not Hindutva and Hindus or Christians.

    In reality and historically, “Man made Religion is the only cause of all human misery” and the people and the people who base everything on some one said a 1000 year ago is want to control others for power and money. No one is going to hell or heaven because you followed one religion or another. Recommend

  • Raqib Ali
    Jan 16, 2011 - 4:58PM

    “Needless to say the largest number live in UP, where the total population is more than that of Pakistan”

    Really??

    “Muslim threat is expressed by the fact that their population, although only 13 per cent of the total, has grown to this number in fifty years, more quickly as compared to the Hindus”

    So 13% of one Billion Indians is greater than 180 Million Pakistanis? Do our authors know anything about Maths??????Recommend

  • dk
    Jan 16, 2011 - 4:59PM

    Can the author please tell us how many indian muslims are lining up to seek refuge / asylum in pakistan for atrocities committed on them by hindus??? has the author bothered to find out how his kin use the blasphemy law against the minorities??? has the author tried to find out the no. of hindu girls who get kidnapped and raped and then get forcefully converted to islam????? similarly can the author tell us any non muslim person who has held the highest office in his country or even a position of strategic importance????

    we in india have our problems and we are doing what we can to solve them. indian muslims are a very significant and important part of indian society and we do not need the advice of outsiders to tell us how to solve our problems. Recommend

  • Jan 16, 2011 - 5:12PM

    Hamid Gul mentioned recently on a programme that also had Mani Shankar Aiyar that the ISI would never do anything that would harm the ‘mazloom” Indian muslims who are already suffering. And he has demonstrated his honourable stand on other issues as well, so I must believe that his heart like the author’s heart bleeds for Indian Muslims.

    In fact like the good general, the intelligensia is so busy feeling sorry for Kashmiri Muslims, Palestianian muslims, Bosnian muslims, Pashtuns in afghanistan etc etc, there is time for little else. Recommend

  • inderjit sahota
    Jan 16, 2011 - 5:32PM

    A wonderful myopic piece of writing. A mirror into pak failings. He should research into the plight of minorities in pakRecommend

  • Sheikh Sarmad
    Jan 16, 2011 - 5:49PM

    Excellent article and as usual indian replies without understanding the basic argument of Khalid Sahib…”It has become a part of our nationalism to highlight communal trouble in India. We don’t realise that this kind of thinking is not good for the Muslims there.”Recommend

  • vasan
    Jan 16, 2011 - 5:57PM

    HE didnt even bother to mention the atrocious living standards of the people below poverty line irrespective of the religion in both the countries. According to the published reports the scheduled caste and tribe people of INdia are in a worse state than our muslim bretheren. We in India will attempt and succeed in improving everyone’s life not just Indian hindus or muslims. In other words back off. Dont try to lit any religious fire here. Recommend

  • Rakesh
    Jan 16, 2011 - 6:01PM

    I really appreciate the author’s concern. However more muslims are killed in Pakistan everyday than in India. So Pakistan should first try to protect its own Muslims rather live in denial and look the other way.

    The first comment made an interesting observation that Hrithik Roshan was considered a bigger star than Shah Rukh Khan. That exposes the level of knowledge that the person has Bollywood. SRK is known as King Khan in Bollywood, and there is nobody else to match his level today.Recommend

  • Jan 16, 2011 - 6:15PM

    Really sorry to see the distorted views. I don’t think Hindus in india see Shahrukh as a Muslim. He is just one of the most talented actor Bollywood has seen for the Hindus here. Please don’t depict Hindus as bigots. Of course there is skepticism among Hindus. That is created by the growing and spreading fanatic views among Muslims which is the result of influence by some Muslim leaders (like Zakir Naik). Increased usage of Burka in kerala is an example. (Burka in Kerala was a very rare seen 15-20 years ago). Muslims who are well educated (Not the ones who only went to Maddrassas, and never to schools) and have never hesitated to live in harmony with other sects of the society. This is a well known fact. So as long as Muslims don’t separate themselves from the mainstream society, I don’t think people would see them as ‘Muslims’ rather as just human beings.Recommend

  • Lalit
    Jan 16, 2011 - 6:41PM

    it is a great Irony that,author seems to be worried about Muslims of India while innumerable of them are losing their lives daily in faith related violence in Pakistan.while the treatment rendered to minorities in India is far from being ideal,Pakistan ought to be the last Nation to teach India how to treat her minorities.it should not surprise anyone if the 97% muslim population of Pakistan soon becomes 100%. Recommend

  • Rishad
    Jan 16, 2011 - 6:56PM

    @ dk

    Pakistan’s first law minister was Joginder Nath Mandal.

    We have many prominent non-Muslims in good positions. To name a few:

    Justice Durab Patel, Chief Justice of Pakistan
    Justice Rana Bhagwan Das, acting Chief Justice of Pakistan
    Raja Tridev Roy, Senior Misnister & ambassdor for a long time.
    Many senior Army officers are non-Muslims
    Hero of 65 wars include Cecil Chaudhry
    Many Artists and famous designers are non-Muslims
    Many successful business people are non-Muslims
    Many non-Muslims are ministers in federal and provincial governments

    While in India Yousuf Khan had to choose the name Dalip Kumar, Muslim Pakistan had many highly successful actors with names of Darpan, Santosh Kumar, Shabnam, Aasha Posle, Soran Lata etc.. Some of them were Muslims while proudly having Hindu names. Johi Chawla’s uncle Satish Anand is Pakistan’s biggest film distributor.

    There are so many more examples… isn’t it great for the people who are less than 3% of country’s population? Main problem is not their religion, it is social issues (like majority of Pakistani Hindus come from an area which is dominated by poor Schedule castes). Recommend

  • Aliya
    Jan 16, 2011 - 7:02PM

    My parents live in UP – Muslims are so poor and discriminated against that we are lucky to get any job at all – waiters, drivers etc is all we can hope for. I was lucky to get out to the US.

    No matter how bad it is in Pakistan it is still miles better than India is for Muslims.

    Great article.Recommend

  • PriyaSuraj
    Jan 16, 2011 - 7:46PM

    Why are Pakistanis worried about muslims in India? Indian Muslims must be thanking their parents and grandparents today cause they stayed back in India. Today’s Pakistanis serve as a good example for them. Persecution in today’s society is hardly due to one’s religion but more likely to happen because one is poor. There are a lot of poor people in India (muslims are not the only ones). I am not sure how the author has decided that Hrithik Roshan is considered a bigger star because he is hindu and Shahrukh Khan is not because he is a muslim. And why is this a good example to show that muslims have a bleak future in India. India is changing, we don’t care what your religion is? What we care about is how productive you are and do you sell? This is the new India. On the other hand you could have written about the future of Islam in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Recommend

  • Ronit
    Jan 16, 2011 - 7:46PM

    @Aliya
    We know ur from pakistanRecommend

  • anil
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:29PM

    Ha ha….I can’t control myself from laughing….Is Pakistan the Saviour of Islam or Muslims.A Muslim majority country where Muslims are killed by Muslims questions other countries.”The pot is calling the kettle black”.Muslims are considered as settlers in India according to author.Yes…Yes..very true.History says this.Bloody Muslim rulers like Moghals attacked it and made it their colony.But we still respect good rulers like Akbar.Mohammad Ghazni attacked somnath temple more than 20 times and looted it.Recommend

  • R S JOHAR
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:33PM

    I am afraid that Khaled Ahmed analysis and his apprehensions on Indian Muslims are far from truth and without any basis. The writer appears to be quite ignorant about the current scenario in India and penned this article quoting a author who wrote a book after Godhra incident and subsequent killing of Muslims in Gujarat. I would like to remind that many Sikhs also got killed after Indira Gandhi’s assasination in 1984. These are the two most unfortunate and isolated incidents but theirafter no Muslim or Sikh got killed in any riot related case since 8yrs and 26yrs respectively and same is unlikely to happen in future as well.
    As regards the future of Indian Muslims it can be stated with certainty that they are much safer here than Pakistan and are contributing towards the progress of the country. Let me assure the writer that whatever happens in Pakistan, there will be no adverse fall out on them since majority of people in India practice secularism and tolerance towards each other’s faiths. A lot is written about Hinduvta in Pakistan but when BJP was in power in Centre, though they did not discriminate Muslims during their rule but their ideology was still rejected and they were voted out by the people. In India we have minorities as our PM, President’s and three Khan’s are ruling the richest film industry and draw more crowds than leaders. I sincerely hope that Express Tribune in future will refrain from publishing such articles painting incorrect picture of Indian Muslims which will create only hatred between the two countries.Recommend

  • Iqbal
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:44PM

    I live in India and have also visited Pakistan. Having witnessed both the countries, I can safely say that we, indian muslims, are enjoying a far better life than the average pakistani. All our religious practices are allowed here- be it the friday prayers or the muharram matam….even roads are closed to allow this. Of course, some people do discriminate and that too is mostly because of the rise in global terrorism. My mother still yearns to be in Pakistan with her uncles and cousins but I dont let her shift. I dont wish to go back to that mess.

    ~IqbalRecommend

  • Primary_Red
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:46PM

    Mr Ahmed not only patronizes Indian Muslims he also demeans them by saying they are merely poor converts. It may come as a shock to you, but most Pakistanis too are converts. Stop spreading nonsense about India and try to learn why we are propsering and why you are attacked by dronesRecommend

  • Hindu
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:49PM

    Simple question – what about the prejudice against Hindus in Pakistan? Have you converted them,, driven them out or just left them to be treated under your irrational medieval laws?Recommend

  • Sid Kay
    Jan 16, 2011 - 8:55PM

    The plight of people practicing islam in the Indian subcontinent are a function of the following:

    A. They were primarily socially alienated hindus who were forcibly converted as a tool of subjugation. Thus have added a further element of alienation by following an alien religion whose views and practices are such a mismatch to the indigenous culture and which most Indians view negitively because of historical misadventures.

    B. Since islam has been used as instrument of subjugation and the inherent insecurities that it has caused, the religion is practiced in a totalitarian manner, thereby making the behavior of so called muslims very antisecular. Their insistence that their religious identity supersedes their their political identity makes things even worse.

    C. The fact that religion governs all aspects of their lives instead of just their spiritual being makes them economically unproductive in a modern society.Recommend

  • Raj
    Jan 16, 2011 - 9:06PM

    None of the Pakistani Muslims is in the Fortune 500 List. Azim Premji is in that list and he is an Indian Muslim. Jinnah’s grandson is a celebrated Muslim in India. I do not think he has any relatives in Pakistan.\Recommend

  • David
    Jan 16, 2011 - 9:41PM

    Well typical pakistani media….Yet another india hate article… All that pakistanis need to do is to throw out there impotent leaders and extremists and turn a democracy…Recommend

  • Ali
    Jan 16, 2011 - 10:15PM

    Let us worry about Pakistan. I know quite a lot of muslims in UP in India. They would agree that main stream India always casts suspicions on them simply because they are Muslim.
    However we have to fix our own problems. With great fortune we managed to dis entangle ourselves from India and despite the woes we have experienced we are grateful that we don’t live under the rule of the Indians. Let’s concentrate on our own country and let the Indians worry about theirs.Recommend

  • Ani
    Jan 16, 2011 - 10:29PM

    This is yet another article by Pakistani intellectuals and elite to justify their country’s reason for being which is be “Muslim” first and “protect” muslims of the subcontinent. Not satisfied with killing fellow muslims and minorities in their own country, Afghanistan and need we mention Bangladesh, now these people have turned their attention to India. India offers complete and full protection to all it’s citizens. Not only that it has accommodated the Muslims with exceptions granted to them exclusively. In every sphere they have contributed handsomely to India and are recognized as such. That they have slipped economically is a result of poor leadership in their community that favored Islamic elementary education over modern education. Sir syed Ahmed khan was sidelined. This is increasingly realized by current Indian Muslims and is being corrected faster than their leadership would like to acknowledge. Hindutva has been rejected by Indian masses across the entire country. Even the BJP is trying to reinvent itself! Such is the power of pluralism and secularism. Pakistani’s can’t help but keep finding “Muslim” causes around the world. Indian Muslims are the responsibility of that community in India and India itself. And that responsibility is being carried out with courage and conviction every day. Recommend

  • Wellwisher
    Jan 16, 2011 - 10:32PM

    BLIND PERSON WHOSE HOUSE IS BURNING ,HELPING HIS NEIGHBOUR HOUSE ,WHICH IS IN ORDER???

    This is what it comes to bankruptcy of intelligentsia in Pakistan???
    Annihilation of human decency???

    In India ,Muslims have PEACE OF MIND ,From President of INDIA ,APJ Abdulkalam ( Has more respect among population ,than any HINDU Politician in recent history) ,Majority of Bollywood ( Khan Bros ,Naushad ,Sahir ,Dileep,Nargis, Naseeruddin Shah etc) ,Indian sport ( Azzu,Zahir ,Pathan bros,Pataudi, Sania Mirza ,Munaf Patel, Mohammad Kaif etc) Politician ( Azad ,Omar Abdullah,
    Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, Sikander Bakht, A R Antulay, C. H. Mohammed Koya, Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, Salman Khurshid, Saifuddin Soz, E. Ahamed, Ghulam Nabi Azad and Syed Shahnawaz Hussain.etc)

    India is home to several influential Muslim businessmen. Some of India’s most prominent firms, such as Wipro, Wockhardt, Himalaya Health Care, Hamdard Laboratories, Cipla and Mirza Tanners were founded by Muslims. The only two South Asian Muslim billionaires named by Forbes Magazine, Yusuf Hamied and Azim Premji, are from India.

    several Indian military Muslim personnel have earned gallantry awards and high ranks for exceptional service to the nation. Air Chief Marshal Idris Hasan Latif was Deputy Chief of the Air Staff during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 and later served as Chief of the Air Staff of the Indian Air Force from 1973 to 1976.[59][60] Indian Army’s Abdul Hamid was posthumously awarded India’s highest military decoration, the Param Vir Chakra, Two other Muslims — Brigadier Mohammed Usman and Mohammed Ismail — were awarded Mahavir Chakra High ranking Muslims in the Indian Armed Forces include Lieutenant General Jameel Mahmood (former GOC-in-C Eastern Command of the Indian Army and Major General Mohammed Amin Naik.

    Other prominent Muslim scientists and engineers include C. M. Habibullah, a stem cell scientist and director of Deccan College of Medical Sciences and Allied Hospitals and Center for Liver Research and Diagnostics, Hyderabad, Mushahid Husain, notable physicist and professor at Jamia Millia Islamia; and Dr. Israr Ahmed, an associate member of the International Center for Theoretical Physics. In the field of Unani Medicine, one can name Hakim Ajmal Khan, Hakim Abdul Hameed and Hakim Syed Zillur Rahman.

    And above all ,India is HUB of Muslim university

    LOOK AT THE IMPRESSIVE LIST BELOW ,

    Modern Universities and institutes:
    1.Aligarh Muslim University
    2.Anjuman-I-Islam, Mumbai.
    3.Era’s Lucknow Medical College, Lucknow
    4.Jamal Mohamed College, Trichirapally
    5.Dar-us Salam Education Trust
    6.Jamia Millia Islamia
    7.Hamdard University
    8.Al-Barkaat Educational Institutions, Aligarh
    9.The Maulana Azad Education Society, Aurangabad
    10.Dr. Rafiq Zakariya Campus, Aurangabad
    11.Al Ameen Educational Society
    12.Crescent Engineering College
    13.Al-Kabir educational society
    14.Darul Uloom Deoband
    15.Darul-uloom Nadwatul Ulama
    16.Integral University
    17.Ibn Sina Academy of Medieval Medicine and Sciences
    18.National College Of Engineering,Tirunelveli
    19.Al Falah School of Engineering and Technology,Faridabad
    20.Darul Huda Islamic University
    21.Osmania University
    22.Jamia Nizamia
    23.Muslim Educational Association of Southern India
    Traditional Islamic Universities:
    1.Markazu Saqafathi Sunniya,Kerala
    2.Jamia Darul Huda Islamiyya
    3.Raza Academy

    Now MR. Ahmad ,Compare this Small list with Minority in your country ????

    I am waiting for your answer respectfully.Recommend

  • Ashwin
    Jan 16, 2011 - 10:46PM

    So muslims are persecuted then why have the hindu majority not indulged in genocide la pakistan style.Please sir do not indulge in such acts of suicide.Please protect your own Muslims population before you worry about Indians, we know how care and nurture our Muslims, India belongs to all Indians irrespective of religion, yes we are a corrupt nation and a lot of other things, but sir you will agree we are better then Pakistan in many ways.Please for sake heaven stop brain washing your younger generation, maybe it would reduce terror attacks in Pakistan and the rest of the world. Recommend

  • Shahid Fazal
    Jan 16, 2011 - 10:57PM

    While I don’t support Indian Nationalism(I support just Humanism),I would say that Pakistan or countires like Saudi Arabia are the last ones to lecture others about minority and Human Rights issues….India’s muslims have their own set of problems and Don’t need outside help as of now as the conditions have not got so worse although the rise of Hindu terroristic fundamentalists is a threat as they have an agenda to take over the state and make it extrem Hindu Rashtra,but I think Muslims are capable of sorting out their problems in India.Pakistan should first treat its own minorities well…..And Muslims recieve far better treatment in India compared to what Hindua get in Pkistan(Can’t tell about scenario when Hindu fundamentalists come to power,because till now India had mosly secular govts except for a brief period) …..Hindus and Christians are dehumanised by misusing Blasphemy laws..this should be enough for any sensible muslim to hang his head in shame….Pakistan faces many problems on other fronts as well,you should sort them out first….Recommend

  • Shivam
    Jan 16, 2011 - 11:23PM

    One day Khalid saab you will write an article on Hindus in Pakistan. Meanwhile, as you ask here what will happen to Muslims in India, my Indian Muslim friends wonder what has happened to Muslims in Pakistan!Recommend

  • MilesToGo
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:21AM

    This is a sign of defeat. Pakistanis seems to be giving up the fight against Mullahs, after having lost the “blashphemy law change” battle. Now, its “hum to doobenge, tumhe bhi le dubenge sanam” kind thoughts coming out.

    I say go down with grace and with the satisfaction that atleast your brothers and cousins in India have found a home and a future. Don’t take them down with you. Recommend

  • Manish Agarwal
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:37AM

    With all due respect, I dont understand the purpose of your article, which makes no sense absolutely what so ever. I have had the honour of having a face to face interaction with a few students from Pakistan a few years back and we all had come to understand, that there is no animosity in reality between people of both the countries, atleast not between open-minded people who are ready to accept facts, and understand the realities, but we blamed the politics behind it all in both the countires. You speak of Peace between the two countries, and yet you write such an inflammatory article, which in my view is so prejudiced. Hopefully you will consider your responsibility as a journalist before writing such articles in the future.Recommend

  • Raqib Ali
    Jan 17, 2011 - 1:34AM

    Indian Muslims are in better condition than Muslims in Pakistan???????

    Our 700,000 army is mainly Muslim. How many Muslims are there in Indian 1.2 Million Army? Less than 1%??

    All our presidents and prime ministers have been Muslim. How many Muslims became presidents and prime Minister in India? Maybe Two?

    People at highest posts in Pakistan are Muslim. Is it the same in India??

    Then how Indian Muslims are in a better condition than Pakistani Muslims? Pakistan was a good decision. We could never have achieved so much!!!Recommend

  • Raqib Ali
    Jan 17, 2011 - 1:37AM

    Muslims were (and are) doing petty jobs in India. Without Pakistan, we could still be doing them!

    Pakistan was made for Muslims, not for religious Mullahs. Thank God for Pakistan!!!Recommend

  • Zeeshan Pandit
    Jan 17, 2011 - 4:54AM

    Glad you wrote this article. Muslims of India (i.e., from Ahmadebad) would have seek refuge in Pakistan had we opened our borders after the Gujarat riot. Some liberal Indian Muslims would argue that they are happy to stay in India, to them I say: Good luck. Your nationalism should come from within you and not a knee-jerk reaction demanded by the majority from you.

    Muslims of India have to pay a high price for the creation of Pakistan and the rise of Hindu nationalism. Their loyalty is always a suspect. They need to constantly affirm their loyalty to the Indian state.

    The anti-Muslim bigotry among Hindus could be seen by the way they welcomed Bangladeshi Hindus to India while building walls along Bangladesh. Bangladeshi Muslims, on the other hand, are seen as demographic threat by the Hindu majority.

    The condition of minorities in Pakistan is deplorable. Yes, I agree with that observation. But the condition of minorities (e.g., Muslims, Harijans, Christians, Northeast folks) are deplorable in India too. These minorities are also bashed as vote banks by the Hindu majority. You can coexists with a majority that sees you as minorities but not with a majority that sees you as mere numbers, either as vote bank or demographic threat.

    Muslims of India have no other option but to be “Indian Muslims”. But Kashmiri Muslims rejected the label “Indian Muslims” imposed on them. No amount of “secularism” preached by the Hindu majority could convince Kashmiri Muslims to be part of India. Neither do Christians of Manipur and Muslims of Assam are buying it. The idea of “secular” India used by the Indian state could no longer convince countless minorities to stay within its boundary. Some have woken up and questioned the idea of India itself,Recommend

  • realMuslim
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:24AM

    Judging from the muslims of india like Azim Premji, Their ex-president and their rocket scientist, several bollywood and sportmen and woman (Sania Mirza comes to mind). And hardly any bearded mullahs and fanatics wanting to blow themselves and other up to have 72 virgins.
    I think they r better off in India then the muslim in this “land of pure”
    Recommend

  • Arjun
    Jan 17, 2011 - 7:11AM

    One simple answer to pakistan;

    @ Farah;

    If you are so worried about Muslims in India, Pls award Pakistan Citizenship to (lets say) 100 Indian muslims. Let us see how many people will end up there…

    In this modren world religion has no space; Recommend

  • J.Oberoi
    Jan 17, 2011 - 7:38AM

    It will be nice if one of the scholars in the subcontinent wrote a book on the advent of Islam in the region. Many Pakistanis wrongly believe that they have their roots in the Arab world. Nothing is farther from the truth. Most Muslims are converts and erstwhile Hindus. I am not saying this with any ill-intent – just as a statement of fact. After all, religion is supposed to be a personal choice – or at best a communal choice. But ever since religion left the confines of the mind and the home and took its place in politics, it is looked at as a separate entity with a life of its own. Organized religion is the bane of the region and is used as a weapon rather than a tool for solace and hope. This is a sad indictment of the ignorance of the region’s populace that lives are taken for the very concept that was meant to make life simpler and more righteous.Recommend

  • Fahim
    Jan 17, 2011 - 7:53AM

    @Raqib Ali

    Read Wellwisher’s comment, I checked it out and whatever he says is quite true.

    Moreover, If a country with 98% of the population belonging to one community, cannot have the members of their community in influential posts, something is wrong with the people of the country.
    Regarding the comment of us muslims being subjugated in united India, I can only think about Altaf Hussain’s comment of being a united more recognisable force, which can take decisions at par with the other hindu community, rather than being divided into three parts, thus being a weaker force in the subcontinent.
    Doing the math- (all in million)
    No of Hindus of Pak+Bangla+India=2+10+800=816
    No of muslims in Pak+Bangla+India=175+150+175=500
    So, instead of a paltry 4:1 ratio in current India, we would have had a more recognisable 8:5 ratio (keep in mind that inspite of having a clear majority, Neither Pakistan nor Bangladesh has proved anything in the upliftment of muslims as a community, so who are we to blame the Indian majority). If we take this into account, Hindus have gained more advantage due to partition than muslims.

    Fahim Peermohamed Recommend

  • samar
    Jan 17, 2011 - 8:12AM

    pakistanis should save their own muslims from the mess they are in. we are safe in this secular country which we love and proud of to be her citizens. Recommend

  • SKChadha
    Jan 17, 2011 - 8:15AM

    Khalid Ahmed Sahib – Before discussing plight of Muslims in India why not first discuss the “Plight of Muslims in the land of Pure” i.e. Pakistan. Here are few excerpts for your interesting reading:

    Step motherly treatment of Muslim brothers resulting in creation of Bangladesh
    The name of Allah defaced from houses by Pakistan Police – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDlH09Inx2E
    Lal Masjid incidence;
    Missing persons in Baluchistan – http://www.dawn.com/2010/11/24/balochistan-murders.html
    Blasts at Data Darbar and Shrine of Baba Fareed
    Peaceful and secular Swat Vally
    Pakistan’s only Nobel Laureate, Dr Abdul Salam, a physicist whose work helped us understand the cosmological forces. Sadly, he was ostracized because his faith did not meet the merits of this ‘land of the pure.’ His body was brought to Pakistan and kept in Darul Ziafat . Salam was buried in the graveyard Bahishti Maqbara in Rabwah next to his parents’ graves. The epitaph on his tomb initially read “First Muslim Nobel Laureate” but, because of Salam’s adherence to the Ahmadiyya Muslim sect, the word “Muslim” was later erased on the orders of a local magistrate, leaving the nonsensical “First Nobel Laureate”. Please visit – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam
    Recommend

  • Raja
    Jan 17, 2011 - 8:16AM

    LOL!

    What is the muslim future in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan? Looks bleaker than ever..

    And you are writing about Indian muslims? They have a much better future. Worry about the bleak future of muslims in Pakistan.Recommend

  • samar
    Jan 17, 2011 - 8:22AM

    its funny to compare indian muslims with indian hindus. pakistanis should compare indian muslims with pakistani muslims and pakistani hindus both of whom are living a miserable life in pakistan.Recommend

  • Tony Singh
    Jan 17, 2011 - 9:15AM

    @Raqib Ali
    Question you should be answering is How many Hindus are in higher positions? If 99% of any country is Muslim, how do you expect people of that religion not to be in at highest post. The article is on Muslims in India and “wellwisher” has given the author points to ponder. I am also waiting to hear what author has got to say to that
    BTW does the author really think Pakistan is the rolemodal of development of Muslim state and hence “saviour” of world Muslims?Recommend

  • Usman
    Jan 17, 2011 - 11:24AM

    @Indian responses: people from India pounced on Khaled without getting very much. The author tries to elaborate that same ethnic and religious groups act differently when their demography is different, i.e. Muslim minority in India prefers secularism to live peacefully, while muslim majority in Pakistan dislikes secularism and plurality. The basic argument of author is not detailing the plight of Indian muslims rather the intensification of right wing hindutva nationalism in the face of growing Pakistani anti-India rhetoric. writer, in no way, blamed India of muslim persecution. It is Pakistani narrative which will ultimately give Indian muslims a bloody future.Recommend

  • vasan
    Jan 17, 2011 - 11:27AM

    Raqib ali;
    What an illogical way of comparing things. If you want to compare the position of Muslims in India, compare it with the position of hindus in Pakistan to get a real picture of treatment of muslims in India. May be that is not possible after all the forced conversions and kidnapping of young girls and children.
    I wonder if there is any response to this article from any hindu in Pakistan.Recommend

  • Robin
    Jan 17, 2011 - 11:41AM

    My question is – What is the South Asia Free Media Association, Lahore ?

    And – 2nd question – Who made this guy-Khaled Ahmed the director?

    Is South Asia Free Media Association, Lahore, a one-man organization with Khaled Ahmed, the member, director, producer and President?Recommend

  • Abhi
    Jan 17, 2011 - 11:42AM

    Look who are talking about minorities…lol…itz just a 1$ artilceRecommend

  • Adeel Ahmed
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:02PM

    To all the Indians…
    I believe the author is discussing the book written and published by Indians… so before you embark on a Pakistan bashing journey… pls investigate why Muslims in India celebrate Pakistan’s victory over India in a cricket match, why are many Indian muslims unhappy, and why would an Indian Muslim write such a book?

    Btw… how do you minority-saving Indians plead against the 5,000 Muslim family genocide… the biggest genocide of 21st century? Thats how you protect and keep Muslims/minorities safe?

    Nice…Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:12PM

    @ Author

    To sum up, Crocodile Tears.

    Don’t worry about Muslims in India because they are ‘Indians who are Muslims’.

    We will be united as ever.

    Better luck next time.Recommend

  • Sajjad Ahmad
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:29PM

    The Indian Muslims were actual inhabitants of the Muslims Majority Areas in Hindustan and talking about their condition is very ridiculous. They were owners. One can judge their condition of living, they were deprived of their own state/governemnance and just talking about their living standards. This all shows the mis-management of partition. Recommend

  • J.Oberoi
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:34PM

    @Adeel Ahmed, at least they are not asking to move to Pakistan unlike the 1000s of Hindus who have petitioned India to give them citizenship. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Muslims in India are way more successful than Hindus (or for that matter Muslims) in Pakistan. Ask your own actors and singers who come to India to make a living. Recommend

  • Jan 17, 2011 - 12:39PM

    haha its not just pakistani middle class who has vision and hearing problem but indian as well.
    get out of your shell and you would see the reality.Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:41PM

    @Manish Agarwal and many other asking the purpose of this article.

    I had written a comment about it but it was blocked.Recommend

  • hahaha
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:44PM

    @Author

    Kettle calling the pot black!

    Some people can/will never change. Even the current state of your country teaches you nothing new. All you can do is point fingers at India.

    Your central problem is that your identity is in the negative i.e. -

    Q: Who are Pakistanis?
    A: Not Indians.

    You cannot move from this state unless you answer that question in the positive.Recommend

  • Daubic
    Jan 17, 2011 - 12:56PM

    Dear Author, Do you know one thing? I can go to the road and yell that I am a Muslim, praying 5 times a day, believing in Islam and I don’t believe in Hinduism or Christianity. What do you think will happen to me? In India, If I do that literally nothing would happen to me. That’s the basic rights and freedom Indian constitution and law had provided us. They don’t discriminate us just because we are Muslims/Christians/Hindus. Can you do the same in Pakistan supporting Hinduism / Christianity(Forget about supporting other religion, can you at-least treat them on par as human beings). Can you speak a word against the Muslims in Pakistan. Believe me, the moment you utter these words, your name would be written on 1000′s of bullets and those bullets would be gifted to you. Also the great blasphemy laws would fall on you as you had stated something against the religion.

    I would challenge any person in this blog to have courage and do the following. I want the person to go to any crowded public places in Pakistan continuously for 1 month. They should at-least go to 2 places a day and they need to continue to do the same thing for 30 continuous day. I am pretty sure by the end of the month, the person would have been killed in bomb blast by a Muslim human bomb or killed by a Muslim target killer or killed by a Muslim group blaming them they are Ahmad-is / Pashtuns / Shias. Being a Muslim, you will be targeted and killed by a Muslim for no damn reasons. In India, being a Muslim is not a curse and we are on on par with any citizens of India.

    We don’t have discriminatory passport system for Muslims like you do have in Pakistan for minorities. We never fear for life just to open a shop or study in an Educational institution in which we are minority. We never pay extra tax just because we are Muslims as the minorities in Pakistan have to do. We are treated as equal citizens against your law in which a poster containing Muhammad name is treated much bigger and holier than a Imam’s and his son’s life.

    Moreover Pakistanis living abroad fear to say that they were Pakistanis and claim they were Indian Muslims (Indians) at the time of twin tower blast incident and the great attempt at the time square incident by one of your great sons of the soil Faisal shamsad.

    First clear the mess in your area. Believe me the other side is much clearer than the dusty mess around your own.Recommend

  • Zabiullah Khan
    Jan 17, 2011 - 1:09PM

    With India becoming the fastest growing economy next year and most likely stay that way for at least three decades to come, Indian Muslims will emerge as the most prosperous, successful and loved Muslims in the world. Mark my words.Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Jan 17, 2011 - 1:13PM

    The author rightly worries about Muslims in India. At the rate at which Pakistani Muslims are bent on commiting harakiri, there will be none left in that country. The burden of carrying the Islamic tradition does lie with Indian Muslims.Recommend

  • Fahim
    Jan 17, 2011 - 1:26PM

    Adeel Ahmed

    I am an Indian muslim, and I will never cheer your tainted cricketers just on nationality. Its the talent of your erstwhile team in the likes of Wasim Akram, Shoaib Akhtar, Waqar Younis that drew support of not only us but from our hindu brothers too. Its just like Sachin Tendulkar, who has supporters all the way from Australia to west Indies. Please get over this delusion. Unlike your Salman Taseer’s killer’s support, I have not met one hindu in my work who openly supports the riots that happened in Godhra. By the current situation in Pakistan I am happier sitting safe in India rather than getting killed in Pakistan by the people of my own community. We may be a minority here but atleast we don’t kill each other and are united. Partition did not divide the hindus but it divided us into three, or maybe more in the future. Look at the irony.

    Fahim PeermohamedRecommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 17, 2011 - 1:32PM

    The author needs to turn off his blinkers! When Pak was formed, 60 million Muslims moved to Pak and 90 million stayed back! Even today we have the second largest Muslim population that lives in peace and harmony. The number of Muslims killed in India on account of Faith is minuscule and no where near the number that die every year in Pak. There have been sporadic incidents like post-Godhra and ’83 riots, but not perpetual butchery seen in Pak on a daily basis. Even today, over 99% of Indian muslims will prefer India to Pak.

    Some more facts for you: Many of the Muslims who moved to Pak from India found their dreams shattered and moved on to Europe and North America, unable to tolerate the alienation that Pak exhibited to Indian Muslims. What are you claiming the high pedestal for?

    Today, India is going on to become a world economic power, besides more, and Pak has earned the reputation of the epicenter of terror. Pak needs to introspect before it is too late. Recommend

  • Zeeshan Pandit
    Jan 17, 2011 - 1:36PM

    @Zabiullah Khan,

    Indians (and especially Muslims) will never be “prosperous, successful and loved” for the coming 100 years. Your GDP per capita is predicted to be $17000 in 2105. Even that, a huge chunk of your wealth would be in the hand of your oligarch, leaving the rest of India to eat the crumbs. I am predicting Muslims of India would have GDP per capita a third of that.

    All the “prosperous” Muslims in India are now saying that they believe in all religions. Some other Muslims are ashamed of their Muslim identity. I bet “prosperous” Muslims of India would be so secularize that they have no idea why they have Arab names when they are born in South Asia. Mark my words.Recommend

  • vasan
    Jan 17, 2011 - 2:26PM

    “All the “prosperous” Muslims in India are now saying that they believe in all religions. Some other Muslims are ashamed of their Muslim identity”
    I am sure this is because of what is going on Pakistan under the garb of IslamRecommend

  • arif
    Jan 17, 2011 - 2:28PM

    Such kind of author is really a pakistani citizen who donot cares for their fellow (Country)brothers (Shia, Ahmadi, Christian, Hindu etc.) but cares for indian? India may be a model for such kind of author.Recommend

  • Adeel Ahmed
    Jan 17, 2011 - 2:31PM

    If Indians are blind to the obvious… then no one can do anything about it. They obviously don’t give a zilch about human rights, etc… look at what they do in Kashmir, and to their christians, and mostly to their Muslims… they just don’t care.
    Like Ronit just completely ignoring Aaliya’s comment calling her a Pakistani… shameful.Recommend

  • Adeel Ahmed
    Jan 17, 2011 - 2:42PM

    @Oberoi…
    Stats don’t lie… Here is your answer to “Muslims live better lives in India than Pakistan” – the most nonsensical piece of garbage I have ever come across… Here it the truth for you…

    The Muslim literacy rate ranks well below the national average and Muslim poverty rates are only slightly higher than low-caste Hindus, according to a November 2006 government report (http://iamc.com/reports/2006/pmhlc.muslims.pdf). Muslims—mostly Sunnis—make up 13.4 percent of India’s population, yet hold fewer than 5 percent of government posts and make up only 4 percent of the undergraduate student body in India’s elite universities. The report also found that Muslims fall behind other groups in terms of access to credit, despite the fact that Muslims are self-employed at a far higher rate than other groups.

    The Sachar Report (PDF), conducted by a high-level committee nominated by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and concluded in November 2006, serves as a recent example. It provided exhaustive research on Muslim socioeconomic conditions, and made a wide range of proposals, from evaluating textbooks to ensure they promote religious tolerance to recognizing degrees from madrassas to combating Muslim unemployment rates.

    Hindu nationalists—represented by the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)—also criticized the report, and accused the ruling United Progressive Alliance (UPA) coalition of publishing it to gain political support from the Muslim voting bloc. One BJP leader denied Muslims had ever faced discrimination in India and called the study “distorted, politically-motivated, and dangerous” (Hindu).

    reported by Council on Foreign Relations…

    heh… this is what I mean… Indians are either oblivious of the marginalization of Indian Muslims… or just simply don’t care… scary when one of the biggest political party, BJP/RSS (its terrorist wing), harbours such hatred for one of the biggest minority in India.Recommend

  • Adeel Ahmed
    Jan 17, 2011 - 2:47PM

    @ Faheem…

    The second biggest political party in India, the BJP and its terrorist wing the RSS, openly kill muslims, and want a Hindhutva… there are no secrets about it.
    I have visited India many times, and the poverty and slums I see in Bombay, are no where to be seen in Pakistan…
    I have given you stats in my comments above… read them yourself. Stats dont lie.
    As far as cricket is concerned… love for the game is universal and you will support who ever is talented… thats not the same thing as celebrating Pakistan’s victory over India in India… which happens even in the ‘mini-Pakistan’ you have in Bombay… with the Pakistani flag and everything… Recommend

  • AD
    Jan 17, 2011 - 2:51PM

    HAHAHAH….Pakistan talking about helping Indian Muslims.First take care of those who came in 1947. HAHARecommend

  • Tony Singh
    Jan 17, 2011 - 3:11PM

    @Zeeshan Pandit
    India and alll Indians will prosper inspite of your ill will. Whatever may be our GDP, one thing we will not do is roam around with a begging bowl. And we wish Pakistan too prospers.
    And BTW what is wrong with having a secular outlook? Its any day better than any religious outlook. Only in Pakistan is secularism looked down upon. In rest of the world, its your individualism, not religion that counts
    A secularistRecommend

  • bvindh
    Jan 17, 2011 - 3:40PM

    @Zeeshan Pandit ,

    “All the “prosperous” Muslims in India are now saying that they believe in all religions. ”

    ” I bet “prosperous” Muslims of India would be so secularize that they have no idea why they have Arab names when they are born in South Asia. ”

    —-Please enlighten us as why religious tolerance and secularism are such bad things.Recommend

  • Sankalp
    Jan 17, 2011 - 3:44PM

    For a fact, muslims in India enjoy more freedom that their counterparts in Pakistan. Period.Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 17, 2011 - 3:49PM

    @Iqbal

    It amazes me yet again just how obsessed Indians are with Pakistan. Indians pretending to be Muslims posting in the comments section only makes it more laughable and sad.Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 17, 2011 - 3:55PM

    Muslims live better in India? Hmm…no wonder the vast majority of the 1 million Indians who run away from India every year are infact MUSLIMS. You Indians need to get facts and then come back to the tables to have a debate, instead of bringing in your fake nationalism which you’ve been taught (ie. Hate Pakistan = Proud Indian).

    Seriously, Indians suffer from Pakistaniphobia.Recommend

  • hahaha
    Jan 17, 2011 - 3:56PM

    @AD

    HAHAHA! I was sipping coffee reading your comment and I choked on it laughing!

    Brilliant!!Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Jan 17, 2011 - 3:58PM

    @ Adeel Ahmed

    As per the data given by you out of 13 % population, we were giving jobs, educational prefrences, etc. to nearly half of it, keeping in mind that the data was taken in 2006 its not at all bad infact very good. Then about the Sachar Report, here is how we care about our minorities, its our respected PM who conducted it, so we were and are working for the minorities.

    Thanks for helping me with the data and I know you hate to do the same exercise on Pakistan.
    Being a citizen of a failed state, I am not blaming you :)Recommend

  • Tony Singh
    Jan 17, 2011 - 4:38PM

    @ Anwar
    The article is on Indians. Has reference to book written by an Indian on Indians. Who do you expect to comment on article if not Indians? Martians??Recommend

  • Sankalp
    Jan 17, 2011 - 4:40PM

    @The Author,

    Moreover, just to add, the condition of Muslims in India is far better than the Muslims in the West, where they have become the obvious suspects for every little accident in the aftermath of 9/11.

    However, I would not like to comment about the Muslim situation in Pakistan, cuz you label one of your own as a Hero who actually killed a free minded liberal leader, also one of your own.

    Peace!Recommend

  • Tony Singh
    Jan 17, 2011 - 4:44PM

    And add
    Look out of your house window and see. Honestly infer if the muslims, nay humans safe in Pakistan as the conditions exist today. Also read this article in conjuction with the news article “Another christian family on the run…” published yesterday in this newspaper and treatment meted out to minorities. Draw your own conclusion.Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:02PM

    @ Adeel Ahmed
    5% of the Muslim population in India may be employed, accounting for the total Muslim population. You may well be aware that in any country only 30-35% are in the employable age, 18-58. The rest will be kids and pensioners. If you study the demography, it will include a majority of men and a large number of women as well. Can you pl provide employment numbers for Pak as well? Women, including muslim women are free to work in India, just as any other Hindu or Christian, etc.Recommend

  • amoghavarsha.ii
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:02PM

    Some how he wants to have relations with India. Some How he wants to pressurise India to start CBM and talks with pakistan.
    What kind of article is this.
    Pakistan should ask for talks and relations with India with Honor for Pakistanis ( all of them )
    Not to ask for talks and relations by thinking about a section of indian population.

    OH GOD when will you people change, really .
    Why pakistanis don’t work for pakistanis and there country !!!!!Recommend

  • Jan 17, 2011 - 5:13PM

    @Arjun

    You completely missed my point. Firstly, I am not a Pakistani resident nor am I a Pakistani government official to be able to grant any Indian Muslims sanctuary in Pakistan. Secondly, I am not proposing the situation in Pakistan for Muslims is any better than that in India.

    I think many people here, no doubt defensive because of the history of animosity between India and Pakistan, are misunderstanding the author’s argument. My nationality is British, I have both Indian and Pakistani origins and have visited both countries. I find it shocking that people on this comments function are unable to have a discussion about a subject without letting emotions get the better of them. We’re not talking about minorities in Pakistan; or about its appalling human rights record; or about the poverty in both countries. This article is about Muslims in India – if you want to have a discussion about other subjects, then save your comments for those articles. Which I agree are discussions which need to happen.

    I find it incredible that so many people have cited a handful of names of Indian Muslims in a bid to justify how Indian Muslims are living in more prosperous conditions than minorities in Pakistan. Considering the Indian population is one billion strong, citing the odd name of notable Muslims in positions of authority is hardly evidence of equality in India. For a country that boasts of being the largest democracy in the world and packages itself as a secular state, where is the secularism in the politics of India where Hindutva runs along its spine? The BJP hasn’t changed, the RSS is growing at an alarming rate; the Samjhauta Express incident is depiction of Muslim treatment and contempt; and even Rahul Gandhi (widely touted as a future Indian PM) has declared Hindu extremism as the greatest threat to India.

    Yes Muslims in India have integrated better than most minority communities, but that isn’t because the Hindu majority or the Indian government has made concessions for them or assimilated them – Babri Masjid and Gujarat 2002 are a testament to that – it’s because Muslims there have had to put up and shut up. Recommend

  • Azad A
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:14PM

    Hi all… just lookout from your respective windows of your homes of which ever country you are living in and think who is more likely to get killed on stepping out? calculate the probability… you can decide which is the safer and better country.(Full stop)
    As per author’s concern about the people’s future in India… one can’t help but laugh… becuase he himself just needs to ask this question of probability of getting killed!! Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:19PM

    The biggest ever genocide of Muslims butchered was in 1971, East Pakistan where over 1 Million Bengalis ( mainly Muslims) were slaughtered, by none other than the West Pakistanis, of present Pakistan!
    The total number of Muslims killed in Pak in communal violence in 2009 alone exceeds the number of deaths of Hindus, Muslims and Christians, put together since 1994.

    And Pak is sitting in an Ivory tower and calling India names! Jeeez!Recommend

  • chandran
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:32PM

    60yrs gone after living under hindu domination there are different
    muslims now in the world. at the time of partition there were lots
    of pakistan hindus were living there and now no one left. but here
    musilms are second majority in our country.Recommend

  • Ausaf
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:43PM

    I am an Indian Muslim.
    If we get beyond the petty rhetoric of natonalism -Indian or Pakistani, the fact remains that minorities suffer in both places. While Pakistan does need to improve, Indian hindus need to accept that the picture in India is far from perfect esp for Muslims.

    I need just point at the Sachar committee report that socio-economic situation of Muslims in India is very BAD. Look at the political representation of Muslims – in my state legislature of 81 representatives, 1 is a muslim, although the state’s population has somewhere between 15-20% muslims.

    Modi is still the chief minister and loved by many Indians.

    In armed forces, Muslims are nearly always looked with suspicion, and jeered on religious issues – Muslims in armed forces can’t keep beard.

    A fair bit of the above is due to hatred Indians have for Pakistanis and vice-versa.

    I completely agree with the author, that if relation between the two countries improve, it will be very good for Muslims in IndiaRecommend

  • Anoop
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:44PM

    One thing is for sure. Pakistanis have humiliated the Muslims all over the world, have brought a bad name to a Religion, followed by more than a Billion people, killed,looted and raped fellow Muslims(East Pakistan and present).

    On the other hand, Indian Muslims are tolerant, peace-loving and a great role models for Muslims all over the World.

    THE richest Muslim in the IT field is an Indian Muslim. The most loved President of India is an Indian Muslim. The Khans dominate Bollywood and personify the pluralism in India. Muslims are infact over-represented(which is a good sign) in the 2 most popular pastimes in India- Movies and Cricket.

    The point I want to make is Pakistanis are NOT Muslims, but are descendants of Indian Muslims, who used to practice a Religion called Islam. Indian Muslims practice Islam in its true spirit and are Muslims.

    So this debate about Pakistani Muslims and Indian Muslims is inconsequential considering there aren’t many Muslims left in Pakistan(Unless of course you consider the violent, intolerant “religion” that Pakistanis practice as Islam, which no real Muslim would agree to), while there are Millions of them in India.Recommend

  • Ali
    Jan 17, 2011 - 5:58PM

    As a Pakistani i think you should give up caring about Indian Muslims, they are exactly that i.e. Indian – so NOT our issue.

    The way things are going in our country they seem to be in a better position than most in Pakistan.

    This ‘Pakistan is the bastion for all Muslims of South Asia is an outdated mentality’ but thats exactly what the author of this article portrays…

    I think we should worry about Pakistan ONLY!!!Recommend

  • Tony Singh
    Jan 17, 2011 - 7:15PM

    @Farah
    From your comments, It does not seem you have either visited or studied India. You have just commented for sake of commenting and demeaning us.
    Consider the following facts
    1. BJP is not in power in the centre. It won recent bihar elections alligning itself with Nitish JD(U) party on basis of the past performance and development platform, and not on Hindutava.
    2. An average Indian ,be he/she of any faith, is more interested in economic progress than in religious mumbo – jumbo.
    3. RSS is not growing at an alarming rate, but is dwindling. Check this out yourself.
    4. Babri Masjid is a 100+ old year dispute.The events on 6th Dec should not have happened, but they happened. We in India see this as an aberation not routine. BTW Narendra Modi who you like to project as hardline Hindu has destroyed more temples than any Mughal ruler. You can’t have a place of religious worship coming in way of the roads and Highways.
    5. Gujarat happened once in 2002. How many Gujarats have happened in Pakistan in year 2010 itself?
    6. Rahul Gandhi may have his own perception on Terrorism, but that is not bibical truth. Its his perception.
    7. And lastly, the Muslims in India will survive. After all the way the things are, there won’t be very many left in Pakistan to carry on true Subcontinental Muslim traditions. Here in India our muslim “Humvatans” are not in tearing hurry to meet 72 “hoors”.
    8. Can anybody from Pakistan explain what is wrong in being a liberal secularist?Recommend

  • Neeraj, India
    Jan 17, 2011 - 7:37PM

    @Khaled Ahamed
    This write-up has disappointed me greatly. It is difficult for me to believe that you wrote this. The reason I often visit Pak newspapers is to read thought provoking columnists such as Ayesha Siddiqa, Kamran Shafi, Irfan Hussain, Ayaz Amir etc. and of course you too are included in my favorites’ list.
    I am not objecting to your right to write about Indian Muslims, but you seems have depended heavily on what others have to say on the subject and rather appears to have refrained from taking a clear cut stand on the issue. That is baffling.
    I can only hope that you would write another article to make your stand clear. Recommend

  • kamal
    Jan 17, 2011 - 8:26PM

    This guy is talking about Indian Muslim in danger…I can’nt stop laughing…what about Muslims in Pakistan???The writer is so obsessed with India ,he can’nt see what is happening in Pakistan.Recommend

  • MilesToGo
    Jan 17, 2011 - 9:23PM

    btw did you hear charity organization JuD is promoting Jihad in Pakistan…Recommend

  • R S JOHAR
    Jan 17, 2011 - 9:25PM

    @Farah
    I am afraid that your assessment about the state of Indian Muslims is illogical and also incorrect since the same is based on some statements of leaders, making statements to garner Muslim votes, Hinduvta and two incidents happened long time back which I have discussed in my previous blog yesterday. You must have read more blogs of both Hindu and Muslim bloggers from India who have shown their love for Muslims and their country respectively, which speaks volumes of brotherhood amongst the two communities and secularism in this country and all Indians are extremely proud of the same. We do have Hindus and Muslims as well as others who are below poverty line but to speak and focus on just one community is unjustified and without any basis. However, with the fast economic growth which India is achieving presently, the anomoly of poverty shall be overcome and all communities shall benefit soon and this country shall be role model for the whole world. Recommend

  • SKChadha
    Jan 17, 2011 - 9:51PM

    Khaled Bhai – It is true that we have land of pure in our vicinity. But no doubt, the pollution it generates, at times affect the communal harmony in India. We agree that secularism in India is not perfect. The tempers at time flare up and result in Godhra or Samjhota like incidences. However, not such incidences but the pollution from the land of pure is causing more harm to universal brotherhood in India. No amount of hostile course of Pakistan in last 63 years has resulted in subordination, expulsion or genocide of Muslims in India. On the other hand on such occasions India has emerged much stronger and united. Please read the history correctly.

    “Will secular India Survive/” – It is not me or you, it is the history of last 63 years which prove that it is surviving better than the land of pure. The majority or minority in India are not to rule each other by force. They stand together for their collective better future and this is what Indus Valley Civilization teaches us about unity. The pure people may have forgotten it!

    Though, I disagree with your analysis, I hope the establishment of Pakistan will follow the advise given in last paragraph of your write-up. I don’t mind even if such retarded thinking change their mindset. Recommend

  • Arijit+Sharma
    Jan 17, 2011 - 10:01PM

    @Zeeshan Pandit, et all …

    “All the “prosperous” Muslims in India are now saying that they believe in all religions. Some other Muslims are ashamed of their Muslim identity”

    I consider myself a fairly right wing Hindu person and I believe that India must be totally Hindu. At the same time, I believe that all Muslims in the sub-continent are MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS and it is time they begin returning to their REAL ancestral culture.

    ( But of course all those Muslims who claim non South-Asian ancestry are not welcome and are free to return to Arabia or Iran )
    . Recommend

  • Fahim
    Jan 17, 2011 - 10:04PM

    Anwar, your comments makes me pity you. If you feel that Indians don’t comprise of muslims too, you are making a big mistake. No wonder your thought mentality reflects that of your country. We indian muslims were the first and from us you guys have branched to Pak muslims and Bangla muslims.

    Rest of Pakistanis, We don’t want your sympathy now. Run your own country properly then preach.

    Fahim Peermohamed
    IndiaRecommend

  • Vin
    Jan 17, 2011 - 11:54PM

    Hindus are equally at risk from Muslims even though they are in majority in India. They have seen in Kashmir as to what happens to the minority when the majority is muslim. We have seen how the most fertile lands of India the Indus Valley and Brahmaputra Valley were taken away from us in the name of religion (add Kashmir to that list). Having said that, India is in a very delicate balance today. Mullahs that have threatened Pakistan to almost oblivion are also very strong in India, The Barelvis and Deobandis are in huge numbers and appeased heavily by the ruling Congress Party. Javed Akhtar was recently threatned with life for saying on TV “Who cares about Fatwas and Mullahs”. No crackdown on any madrassa till date in India despite having proof of many of them giving hate sermons on Jummahs and also alienating muslim youths from merging into a multicultural society. These Mullahs will be a potential threats to the stability of India as we see the % of muslims rise in India. I am hearing that Pakistan is thinking of taking strict steps to see that Madrassa education is regulated to make sure that they do not indoctrinate kids into Hate Mongering. India has yet to see that from even liberated Muslims, those who speak are silenced.
    No Political party including BJP has the guts to take on the Mullahs. The Muslim elite are helpless and have no power/will to reform their society, the way Raja Ram Mohan Roy etc did in the 18th century, thankfully the pandits were not armed :).
    Seeing the results of Bihar elections which has one of the highest muslim populations, I feel that teh muslims have realized a very important thing which is that the “Congress will appease muslims to the hilt for vote banks and the Mullah will brutally controle their flocks for want of power”. So they have voted for the so called enemy BJP which is th eonly party that drives fear into those who are pro-terror. BJP/RSS have many a times claimed that they have nothing against muslims but they are against intolerance preached by mullahs and I think Elite Muslims in India and now even poor muslims are realizing that.

    The next decade is very critical for India, it needs to be seen whether the Indian muslims with growing economy still flock to the hateful mullah sermons or wean them off their power by not giving them undue controle over their lives.

    Also in this decade you will see that Hindus will definitely retaliate to any sort of terror attack, hence it is more important to see how muslim leaders spearhead their society. Recommend

  • Sarma
    Jan 18, 2011 - 1:07AM

    Muslims in India are on par with Hindus, Christians, Jains, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc.

    Just watch what you are doing to minorities in Pakistan.

    At the time of Independence, Pakistan’s population contained 25% of Hindus. And now ?

    Shameless argument.Recommend

  • Jan 18, 2011 - 2:55AM

    @Tony Singh & R S Johar

    My argument had nothing to do with where the BJP has its strong-hold, it was about Hindu nationalism and its threat to Muslims in India – which is what the article is addressing. You talk about the BJP and the RSS as benign forces in India, suddenly re-modelled and re-principled. The truth is the old Islamophobic tendencies of the Hindu right haven’t diminished at all in India, all that has changed is the way it is now presented to the outer world. The far right politicians may not be quoting the Golwalkar school of thought which publicly held that Muslims could never be loyal to India as India might be their Janmabhumi but not Punyabhumi, but the subjugation of Muslims is still apparent. The only difference is that they now talk more about the preservation of Hindu rights which should not be sacrificed on the altar of minority rights.

    I haven’t said there aren’t strong Muslim-Hindu relationships in some communities. I haven’t said poverty isn’t an issue. I haven’t said Pakistan is the epitome of secularism and unity – the fact it isn’t it clear for all to see. I’m addressing the issue we are discussing in the context it has been presented. Why do you take it as personal criticism? Discussion is a good thing. Recommend

  • Mawali
    Jan 18, 2011 - 3:31AM

    What a load of crap. Typical Pakistani mentality bury your head to problems at home and find therapy in discussing non issues elsewhere.

    There has to come a time when reality must come and bite you hard enough to realize you are sinking!

    I have news for you; Indian Muslims have no sympathy for you guys. They call themselves and rightly so proud Indians. How long will and to what extent will you go in proving the fiasco called the two nation theory. It was wrong, it has been proven wrong and it will be wrong long after youy are gone. Deal with it!Recommend

  • G.Din
    Jan 18, 2011 - 4:00AM

    Muslim, like any other minority such as Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis, Christians etc., have to make / find their own niche in a society where no one, Muslim or otherwise, is allowed to call the shots. This is true for any minority in any country. But, they are the only minority in any country of the world which sticks out as a sore thumb everywhere. Why? The answer will be clear from this example taken out of real life.
    A few years back, in the state of Jarkhand, India, an elderly lady decided to run for an elective office. Her campaign took her to an audience in a Muslim locality. She addressed them:”Hum aapko apna bhai samajhte hain, aap apne ko ghar-jamayee mut samajhiye” ( “We consider you as our brothers. Please don’t consider yourselves as resident sons-in-law”) For those who don’t know about south asian society, ghar-jamaayee i.e resident son-in-law is a man who lives with his wife’s family and enjoys the highest hierarchical position in that family.
    I am not sure if the lady did get elected. Probably not. The lady, although an illiterate for all practical purposes, had put her finger on the reason why Muslims don’t seem to fit in (any) society. Every Muslim thinks that he/she is entitled to special entitlements for quite inexplicable or mysterious reasons. His contribution to (any) society is negligible, his productivity poor with no ambition to succeed or excel in any field. And he doesn’t want those entitlements for himself only, but for other Muslims too. Observe how Pakistani Muslims are pointing to the fact that Indian Muslims are practically not represented in our armed forces. They conveniently neglect to take into account that Indian armed forces are a voluntary force and are quite unlike Pakistani army where your career is safe and secure and winning any wars is optional. If you don’t find many Muslims in the Indian army, could it be because they are not temperamentally suited to that kind of life? After all you can’t stop a war for the Muslims to offer namaz five times a day!Recommend

  • Mubarak
    Jan 18, 2011 - 4:07AM

    Let all of us become humans before becoming Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Parsies etc. When in trouble every one feels same pain regardless of his or her faith.Recommend

  • MilesToGo
    Jan 18, 2011 - 5:10AM

    There are many Pakistanis who are now confident that if they go down, they will take India with them.

    I have doubts.Recommend

  • Colorado NRI
    Jan 18, 2011 - 5:46AM

    This article is poorly researched, badly written, false propaganda worthy of Pravda. Muslims in India may be a minority but they are also a vital voting bloc. They therefore wield power far higher than their numbers suggest. That is how a democracy works and should work.

    I suspect this author has never visited India. I was in Hyderabad a couple months ago. The old city is chock full of Muslims – shopping, eating, working, praying and even dating (restaurants are full of young burqa clad women with their mates). In other words, they were living their everyday lives as free people around the world do – without fear, without interference and with free will. They are free to practice their beliefs regardless of their sects and without being fearful of whether they are “muslim enough”.

    An American friend accompanied me on that trip through south India. He started off being fearful when I took him through Muslim neighborhoods but later got ever more comfortable (and amazed) with the diversity that is India. One of our last meal was at an old muslim-run restaurant north of Kochi in Kerala. The owner and staff at the restaurant lavished attention at us and made sure that we had one of the best meals of our lives. When my friend was ready to return to the US, he told me that after his experience in India, his feelings in general towards muslims had changed and he realized that they were just like everyone else. Such is the power of living in a free and secular society that is not driven by hate or years of false indoctrination.

    The author probably won’t get the point I am making but I hope that some of your readers do.Recommend

  • sanjithmenon
    Jan 18, 2011 - 9:24AM

    who the heck are Pakistani`s to enquire about Muslims in India? And pass comments on us? Recommend

  • Rash
    Jan 18, 2011 - 9:56AM

    well, the author provides a big insight into a Pakistani vison of India and Indian muslims. Not many know here, one of India’s richest person happens to be the grand son of; hold your breath, Mohmand Ali Jinah! His business empire is thriving

    Need we say more????Recommend

  • observer
    Jan 18, 2011 - 10:10AM

    @Farah

    In India, Hrithik Roshan is regarded
    in greater esteem than Shah Rukh Khan,
    despite the latter being a global
    superstar

    Hello, let me qickly give you an update on Bollywood.
    Shah Rukh Khan is paid better than Hritik Roshan by the best production houses in India, who all vie for signing up Shah Rukh.
    Shar Rukh has more hits in India than Hritik whoe recent release Gujarish sank without a trace.
    When the producers of hugely popular TV programme KBC wanted a replacement for the iconic Big B they turned to Shah Rukh.
    So if the makers of movies and watchers of movies (a.k.a.general population) are rooting for Shah Rukh, tell me, who thinks Hritik is greater than Shah Rukh.
    While it is nobody’s case that Mnslims don’t face any discrimination at all in India, Hritik v/s Shah Rukh is completely imaginary.

    .Recommend

  • J.Oberoi
    Jan 18, 2011 - 10:39AM

    My dear Pakistani friends, here’s a video that will make you realize all your silly bickering is nothing in comparison. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOx7F2MO4V4Recommend

  • ehabs
    Jan 18, 2011 - 11:15AM

    I respectfully disagree with the viewpoint presented in this piece.

    I am an Indian whose parents were Muslim. I would never, ever consider living in a place like Pakistan. India is a free, secular and open society where new ideas find new meaning everyday and debate is non-stop; where the economy is rising without impediment. The Indian people are a broad-minded bunch with respect for every philosophy on life. You can drink here without being judged or pray to any deity without being ridiculed or harassed. We also have REAL democracy, not one that is managed by the Armed Forces. Lastly, I would never want to leave India for Pakistan because I know that I would never like to live in a society that glorifies murder in the name of religion. Pakistan has become a “schizophrenic society” according to Mr. Mosharraf Zaidi and it’s sad, but true. No one wants to live there.Recommend

  • Jehangir
    Jan 18, 2011 - 11:25AM

    I think Indian Muslims are very very lucky that they did not migrate to Pakistan — now thier kids have a brighter future than their counterparts in Pakistan which is going down the drain fast.Recommend

  • Indian Muslim
    Jan 18, 2011 - 12:42PM

    Great article Mr Ahmed!

    Muslims are a persecuted minority in India. We are on the receiving end of the hindu terrorist organizations. We are discriminated against in government and private sector. we hardly get a decent job. And incase of a terrorist incident, we are rounded up as usual suspects.

    A great India is nothing but a mirage. India is so divided on racial, communal and religious lines, that its only a matter of time until india will be divided into several countries ruled by their own rajas.Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 18, 2011 - 12:50PM

    All those who are sighting Sachchar report and comparing the literacy rate etc for muslims vs rest of India, I ask one question. As a pakistani you should compare those number with Pakistani average and then see if the Indian muslims are better off than Pakistani muslims or not.
    For religious freedom etc we should also compare the number of muslims killed during prayer in Pakistan vs India. I know you guys are furious about Ajmer sharif blasts, but there was bigger number of casualities in Data durbar blasts and there is no progress on its investigation and no one is Pakistan seems to be concerned about it.
    Last line for author, he achieved what he wanted, the article is still most popular :)Recommend

  • Adeel Ahmed
    Jan 18, 2011 - 1:42PM

    @ subbu and ashok…

    Look at the stats again… it is talking about 5% of all the people at an employable age…
    Do you guys not know your stats/maths or what? Or just blind to the truth, as usual?

    Truth is… poverty in India is getting worst… (money is in the hands of the rich… with rich getting much richer, and poor getting poorer) with more people going hungry in india than in the whole sub-saharan africa… again… stats… they dont lie.
    Unfortunately, most of these impoverished are the minorities, ie, Muslims, and then Christians.
    India is the ONLY country in the world where you still have the concept of someone being an “untouchable”… if you cant treat your own lower-caste hindus equally… how can you treat Muslims and other minorities… you cant… stop fooling yourself…

    Hindus/Christians/ and women are free to work in Pakistan as well…
    In fact Hindus rule the rice business in Pakistan…
    We do not have untouchables…Recommend

  • Adeel Ahmed
    Jan 18, 2011 - 1:43PM

    @abhinav…

    Since you are making these arguements…. why dont you bring the stats yourself… then talk.Recommend

  • Waqas
    Jan 18, 2011 - 1:56PM

    Most of the comments by Indians reek of their racial and discriminatory mindset. Pretty sickening. The fact is that not enough has been done to bring minorities (specially Muslims) in the main stream. They are still considered second class citizens. The only time they are considered is when elections approach and leaders from different parties go begging to them for their votes – and soon forgotten for 5 yrs.

    We know the pathetic functioning of the Indian democracy. you can fool some people some time not all the people all the time. The secularism in india is only there in books, in reality it doesn’t exist. Recommend

  • Waqas
    Jan 18, 2011 - 2:17PM

    @ Abhinav

    Great approach. In order to get the right results, why dont you start comapring Indian Muslims with poverty and hunger stricken sub-saharan Africans too? I am sure this will be a cause of celebration in india and you can pat yourself at the back for a superior treatment of Muslims.

    This is typical Indian mindset i.e. “We are the best, we are perfect, anybody who says otherwise is either ignorant or an ISI spy”

    Shame to you indians!! The more i read your comments the more I get convinced that Jinnah was right in making Pakistan. I will encourage Indian Muslims to make another country for themselves in India, that remains the only answer. Freedom of Indian Occupied Kashmir will set the example for the other Indian Muslims to follow. Recommend

  • vasan
    Jan 18, 2011 - 3:23PM

    adeel ahmed;
    I disagree with you on the caste and untouchable aspects of India and Pakistan. India recognizes these are present in India and trying to have reservations to bring these people to the main line. But unfortunately Pakistan says they dont have the untouchabilty or caste among muslims and hence sweeping everything under the carpet. The caste and untouchability are very much present in the subcontinent among all religious groups and heavily practiced also. The Aisha bibi blasphemy case was due to untouchabilty. Recommend

  • harkol
    Jan 18, 2011 - 3:24PM

    This is an interesting perspective because, Hindus certainly didn’t survive in pakistan. While it can’t be called a genocide, it was a quite ethnic cleansing of Hindus of Pakistan, which saw their population fall from about 18% to less than 2% today.

    Can the same happen in India? Well there have been 4 wars and a continuing covert proxy war for past 60 years. Except for few incidents (most recent being Gujrat 2002), by and large Muslims are well protected in India.

    They even grew in percentage in past 60 years, from 11% to about 14% now. This is reverse of ethnic cleansing!Recommend

  • harkol
    Jan 18, 2011 - 3:32PM

    @anwar

    no wonder the vast majority of the 1 million Indians who run away from India every year are infact MUSLIMS.

    Not sure if this statistics is right. Do you have any source for this info?

    If muslims were indeed fleeing India, how come their proportion of population has grown from 11% to about 14% now?Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 18, 2011 - 3:36PM

    @Adeel
    Untouchability is a thing of the past. Not sure if you have been to India – Just travel in a bus or train and see for your self – Seats are only reserved for Ladies, not for castes. While it is ther in pockets, it is fast receding into distant memory.

    We have about 27% of our population below poverty, way down from 70 % at the time of independence. Poverty is rapidly making way to rising living standards on account of economic development in India. The last 15 years has seen rapid growth in income. Get off your blinkers and jaundiced glasses. India is powering its way into the top 5 economies and that is irrespective of religion, caste or creed.

    I am sure you have heard of Azim Premji and Ness Wadia ( Jinnah’s grandson!!) as you may have heard of APJ Abdul Kalam, the father of the Indian Space program and Pokhran II, Ex- President of India.

    You have a larger problem of Racisim and discrimination where you are killing people on account of him being a Shia, Ahmadiaya or a Baloch! Do you want me to jog your memory on the blasphemy law in Pak. Can anyone imagine being put to death just because he threw a visiting card of a certain pharma sales man called Mohammed Ali on account of Blasphemy laws! Ha! Are you trying to teach the world and India on Civilization – Quit Kidding! Recommend

  • harkol
    Jan 18, 2011 - 3:40PM

    @Farah

    The BJP hasn’t changed, the RSS is growing at an alarming rate; the Samjhauta Express incident is depiction of Muslim treatment and contempt;

    You’ve got it all inverted. RSS is at its weakest today and is on the defensive. It’s recruitment of the young has hit its lowest in the past decade, and its cadres largely belong to older generations.

    Samjhauta express blast and other terror incidents are not about Muslim treatment, they are about criminality. If that is a measure of treatment of community, then other commenters here are right that there are more such incidents in pakistan against muslims than in India.

    And about Rahul’s comment about Hindu terror. He is absolutely right. Should Hindu terror reach the level of Muslim terror has reached in Pakistan, India would indeed be doomed. India will have to (and seems to be) nipping it in the bud.Recommend

  • harkol
    Jan 18, 2011 - 3:55PM

    @Farah

    Hrithik Roshan is regarded in greater esteem than Shah Rukh Khan,

    As I said earlier you know nothing about India. Shah Rukh Khan is much much bigger star and has far greater clout in every way in India. Most of media and politicians eat out of his hand.

    And Hrithik Roshan is respected because he is a Hindu? His wife is a Practicing Muslim and ShahRukh Khan’s wife is a Practicing Hindu! What more can I say!!

    Oh BTW, the biggest tragedy of Partition are not Indian Muslims. They are safe and sound and growing.

    It is Pakistan’s Hindus – who are all but cleansed out.Recommend

  • ehabs
    Jan 18, 2011 - 4:37PM

    It’s funny how you guys keep saying “typical Pakistani mindset” or “typical Indian mentality.” You do know that if it weren’t for the Colonial concept of ‘Divide and Rule’ we would still be one, happy, peaceful and prosperous nation, right? We’re the SAME people, with the same blood, genes and lust for life and all its pleasures. Stop the bickering and embrace the FACT that we are all ONE. We will always be South Asians together, regardless of the ridiculous geographical boundaries that separate us.

    You know when I was younger I was asked if I was a Pakistani, and obviously I replied that no, I was Indian. The person who asked me the question became puzzled that there was a difference between the two. He thought we were all just one people with two different, interchangeable names! :) It was quite funny but it opened up my mind abundantly to new ideas.

    We are all the same people so stop arguing! Let’s co-exist and eventually become one again, like we were. :)

    Best wishes to all my South Asian brothers and sisters, both Indian and Pakistani! Recommend

  • Qadir
    Jan 18, 2011 - 4:43PM

    @Farah

    BTW initial confession was from Safdar Nagori.On 14th Nov 2008 a news report says that one Muslim terrorist by name Safdar Nagori
    had confessed that he responsible for the Samjhauta blast.
    Now suddenly they are saying a hindu guy is also confessing the same thing.

    How come a sudden u-turn ?

    http://www.dailypioneer.com/134395/Nagori-narco-test-calls-ATS-bluff.htmlRecommend

  • Ali
    Jan 18, 2011 - 5:08PM

    I was in Copenhagen, Denmark as an exchange student from my University in Lahore where I met 15 sutends from India from various IIM’s. Out of those 15, 2 were Sikhs, 1 Jain and 12 Hindus. Not even a single one was muslim and according to them there were less than a dozen out of a total class of 300 at IIMA.

    After graduation when I joined the global trainee program of a multinational Bank, there were 16 trainees from India and again not a single was muslim. So out of the 31 Indian management graduates that I know not even a single was a muslim even though muslims make up 13% of the Indian population!!!

    I truly beleive that had it been a unified India the 8 trainees (7 muslim and 1 hindu) from Pakistan would have included no muslim. Such is the nature of opportunities muslims have in INDIA..!! Recommend

  • Jan 18, 2011 - 5:42PM

    @ Ali
    Admission in to IIM’s is based on a tough competitive entrance exam , not on religious lines.Only the best out of 5 lakh aspirants are selected whether they may be hindu, muslim,sikh or christian.Even after studying so much and gaining first hand experience with international students, you are still a religious bigot.Stop thinking everything from religious angle.Recommend

  • Waqas
    Jan 18, 2011 - 5:42PM

    @ Subbu Jois

    I feel like laughing on you statement:
    “We have about 27% of our population below poverty, way down from 70 % at the time of independence.”

    Do you know the definition of poverty that is used by your economic gurus “anybody who earns more than Rs. 300 is considered to be ABOVE the poverty line” Can you even feed yourself in Rs. 300 per month??? Why don’t you try it for one month and see for yourself.

    Stop fooling yourself and others. The global benchmark for poverty is USD 1.25 per day and see where India lies in it:
    http://www.articlesbase.com/politics-articles/410-million-indians-living-below-poverty-line-and-they-are-being-acclaimed-as-the-emerging-super-power-2834694.html

    http://www.livemint.com/articles/2007/10/16235421/80-of-Indians-live-on-less-th.html

    And how about this one:
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/8-Indian-states-have-more-poor-than-26-poorest-African-nations/articleshow/6158960.cmsRecommend

  • SherY
    Jan 18, 2011 - 5:44PM

    The writer is a director at the South Asia Free Media Association, Lahore..
    Looking at this article I can’t believe it..
    oh btw. i m a Pakistani.Recommend

  • Fahad
    Jan 18, 2011 - 5:52PM

    @Harkol “And Hrithik Roshan is respected because he is a Hindu? His wife is a Practicing Muslim and ShahRukh Khan’s wife is a Practicing Hindu! What more can I say!!”

    Recommend

  • sundar
    Jan 18, 2011 - 5:56PM

    @Ali
    In India there is no law that discriminates people from any particular religion from going to school or to compete in IIM, IIT etc. The opportunity is open to everybody irrespective of their race or faith. Why blame the system for the low participation of muslim students? Recommend

  • vasan
    Jan 18, 2011 - 6:21PM

    Ali; Pl go thru the process of admissions to IIT and IIMs in India. They are done thru the toughest exams of the world and then Group discussions and interviews. There are millions of coaching centres throughout the country for getting admission into these world renowned prestigious colleges. They dont give admission just because u are a hindu or deny admission just because u are a muslim. India does not stop anyone from studying in these colleges but one must go thru the tests. If muslims have not been able to pass these tests, they must go to the coaching centres and get trained. Where I come from, ie Chennai, the IIT coaching centres start at 5 am and are full of tamilians who want to join IIT. Hardly any muslim gets to these coaching centres. Pl for heavens sake dont blame everything on religion. You have to seat it out to join these colleges. Only merit can get u there. There are no payment seats and management quota there if u know what I meanRecommend

  • Sharjeel
    Jan 18, 2011 - 6:58PM

    @ Subbu
    Sir ur information is wrong.I dont know from where u get these information.First of all Pakistan is the 2nd biggest muslim nation in the world having 180 million population behind Indonesia.India has 160 million muslims.As far ur point is concerned regarding migration in 1947,Pakistan was created on that Indian land where muslims were in majority that is mainly Bengal And Punjab so in that sense Majority of Indian muslims that lived in east Bengal,West Punjab,Sindh Nwfp and Balouchistan opted for Pakistan in 1947,so plz think before u write.Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 18, 2011 - 7:14PM

    All who were calling for statistics here we go

    Indian Muslims Statistics as per sachchar committe report (Based on 2001 data)
    (http://minorityaffairs.gov.in/newsite/sachar/sachar_comm.pdf)
    literacy rate: 59.1
    Infant mortality rate: 72
    Under 5 mortality rate: 95
    Mean year of schooling: 3.26
    Graduation 13%

    Pakistan Stats as per UNICEF (Based on lates data probably 2008)
    (http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/pakistanpakistanstatistics.html)
    Literacy rate:55
    Infant mortality rate:102 in 1990 , 72 in 2008
    Under 5 mortality:130 in 190 and 89 in 2008

    Mean Year of schooling :3.9
    Graduation 6.3% (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EducationinPakistan)

    As you can see some of the stats are better for indian muslims in compare to Pak even for india the data is for year 2001 while for Pak it is for Year 2008 ( 7 year difference )

    For some of the stats they are almost same but if you use extrapolation (based on trend) and calculate the Indian muslim stats will be better than Pak.

    Recommend

  • Anoop
    Jan 18, 2011 - 7:34PM

    @abhinav,

    Very nice job. Recommend

  • Jan 18, 2011 - 8:41PM

    @Ronit what about gujrat in 2004 more than 10000 muslims killed and now kashmir last year more 300 muslims killed by indian army……so think before you speakRecommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 18, 2011 - 9:48PM

    @Indians
    Wanna see stats, I’ll show you Indians stat.

    @Pakistanis
    It’s best to ignore these trolls, and the ones who are claiming as being “Indian Muslims”. Indians in general are so terrified and insecure about themselves, they’ll be prepared to make 100 different fake profiles just to make themselves sleep better at night.You’re wasting your time debating this very weird quam.

    SOME STATISTICS FOR OUR INDIAN FRIENDS
    Any crackdown on illegal immigrants abroad or restricting quotas to Indians are a major concern to India’s politicians. The latest statistics from US Department of Homeland Security shows that the numbers of Indian illegal migrants jumped 125% since 2000! If all is so rosy and well in India, why have 45 million Indians left India to live abroad, whereas only 4.5 million Pakistanis live abroad, 2 million alone in Gulf.

    Ever wondered why Indians migrate to another countries but no one comes to India for a living? Here are some Indian facts:

    Widespread Hunger
    According to WFP, India accounts around 50% of the world’s hungry (more than Africa). India’s Global Hunger Index (GHI) score is 23.7, a rank of 66th out of 88 countries. India’s rating is slightly above Bangladesh but below all other South Asian nations and India is listed under “ALARMING” category. Ref: IFPRI Country Report on India
    RESULT = Pakistan better off

    Widespread Poverty
    Around 6 out of 10 Indians live in the countryside. where abject poverty is widespread.
    34.7% of the Indian population lives with an income below $1 a day
    79.9% of the Indian population lives with an income below $2 a day
    According to the India’s planning commission report 26.1% of the population live below the poverty line, however the World Bank’s poverty line is $1 per day, but the Indian poverty line is Rs 360 per month, or 30 cents per day.
    RESULT = Pakistan WAY better off

    Superpower, NO. Plutocracy? YES!
    India is far from becoming a superpower, it’s a joke the politicians have played in India to make slaves out of the low class, while the upper class steals it all. 15% of Hindu upper castes inherited majority of India’s civil service, economy and active politics from British colonial masters. And thus the caste system virtually leaves lower caste Hindus in to an oppressed majority in India’s power structure. Going by figures quoted by the Backward Classes Commission, Brahmins alone account for 37.17% of the bureaucracy. The dominant group of Hindu nationalists come from the three upper castes (Brahmins, Kshatriyas, and Vaishyas ) that constitute only 10% of the total Indian population. But, they claim perhaps 80% of the jobs in the new economy, in sectors such as software, biotechnology, and hotel management. To add insult to injury, the middle class (or what’s left of it) it’s being forced abroad while the poor are left to become slaves of the dominant upper class who make up peanuts of the Indian population. This is nothing more than a recipe for PLUTOCRACY. The rich are getting filthy rich, while the poor are getting dirty poor and the middle class is left to either suffer the wrath or run away. This explains the huge number of illegal immigrants which are heading to the US from India.
    RESULT = Thank God Pakistan was made

    Education (or lack thereof)
    India has over 35% of the world’s total illiterate population. About 40 million primary school-age children in India are not in school. What is more shocking is that more than 92% of Indian children cannot progress beyond secondary school. [UNESCO Education for All Report 2008]. According to reports, 35% Indian schools don’t have infrastructure such as blackboards and furniture. And close to 90% have no functional toilets.Half of India’s schools still no water supply. Meanwhile, in Pakistan in the 1998 literacy = 43.9% and 2009 = 57%. Clearly it’s rising, and rising fast too. And unlike in India, we don’t need to redefine the damn definition of poverty or literacy to make stats look better. Meanwhile, 7.6% of Pakistani schoolchildren progress onwards to Secondary and Post-Secondary education
    RESULT = Pakistan better off

    Human Rights? Yeah right!
    Crime against Dalits occur every 20 minutes in India. Everyday 3 Dalit women are raped, 2 Dalits are murdered and 2 Dalit houses are burnt down! These figures represent only a fraction of actual incidents since many Dalits do not register cases for fear of retaliation by the police and upper-caste Hindu individuals More than 165 million Dalits in India are simply abused by their Hindu upper castes for their birth! [HRW Report2007]. When it comes to Human Rights issues in India, it is not ratified the UN Convention against Torture, its citizens do not have the opportunity to find recourse in remedies that are available under international law. The victims are trapped with the local Hindu caste system, which in every aspect militates against their rights

    CONT’DRecommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 18, 2011 - 9:48PM

    Indian Armed Forces Should Stop Watching Bollywood
    India’s intelligence agencies like IB, RAW are thoroughly infiltrated by foreign secret services. Case in point…Ajmal Kasab, I don’t have to speak any further. The fact this guy could sail in a rubber boat into your largest city and bring India down to it’s knees for 3 days speaks volumes about your lack of intelligence. Your Russian imported missiles, which you remake in India and call it indigenous, hasn’t been working out for you lately either. The Indian Air Force are known throughout the world for being “Flying Coffins”. Really now, you all need to stop watching Bollywood. It amazes me how many Indians still think 1 indian soldier than take out 10 Pakistanis with a stun gun.

    I could on and on and on, but here’s the main course.

    MUSLIMS IN INDIA – Yeah they really live a great life………..NOT
    India’s jails hold a disproportionate number of the country’s minority Muslims, a sign of discrimination and alienation from the Hindu majority. The bar association in India’s largest state, Uttar Pradesh, has refused to represent 13 Muslim suspects accused bombing courthouses in 2005 . A large part of police officers, Indian attorneys and judges appear regularly on the events organized by notorious Hindu militant groups. Prison statistics of Indian Jails can be seen from National Crime Record Bureau.

    Justice Rajinder Sachar Committee report admitted that 138 million Muslims across India are severely under-represented in government employment, including Public Sector Units. Ironically, West Bengal reported 0 (zero) percent of Muslims in higher positions in its PSUs. It has found that the share of Muslims in government jobs and in the lower judiciary in any state simply does not come anywhere close to their population share. The only place where Muslims can claim a share in proportion to their population is in prison! (Muslims convicts in India is 19.1%, while the number of under trials is 22.5%, which exceed their population ratio). A note sent on January 9 by the army to the defence ministry in 2004 says that only 20,093 Muslims among a total of 1.1 million personnel — a ratio of 2.6 %, which compares poorly with the Muslims’ 13.8 % share in the Indian population. Officially, Indian Army don’t allow head count based on religion. It’s also interesting, that a vast majority of these Muslims in the Indian Army are rarely sent to places like Kashmir or Manipur or more recently to quell the Maoist insurgencies.

    A Muslim child attends school for three years and four months, compared to the national average of four years.
    Less than 2% of the students at the elite Indian Institutes of Technology comprise of the Muslim community.
    Most Muslims today in India live below the poverty line as well, and are subjected to living in predominantly Muslim areas of cities and towns (sounds like a ghetto of Germany to me).

    Muslims in India today are treated like second class citizens, they are regularly looked down upon by mainstream India. Muslims are always having to prove their loyalty to India. What’s strange is that, what is loyalty to the state mean in India? In Pakistan, loving your country means waving your flag, singing national songs and being proud of our country. On the other hand, in India, to be a patriotic and loyal Indian, you must HATE Pakistan. That’s the whole basis behind Indian Nationalism. They don’t give a damn about the flag or that wretched national anthem, they only care about HATING Pakistan, and when they see Indian Muslims only speaking NEUTRALLY about Pakistan, they are labelled traitors. Go look at how Indians treat Kashmiris (a proud nation) and how they are portrayed in indian media only because they want something which was legally given to them. The self to right determination.

    I can go on and on, and I will if I see more of you Indians continue to vomit out your Star News BS. As far as I’m concerned, I’m happy we have Pakistan, and although things are turbulent here, I know we’ll come through.

    We always have and we always will.
    Pakistan Zindabad

    p.s: I’m gonna enjoy the responses to this, since this is only 1 quarter of what I was going to write.

    Cheers.Peace out.
    Anwar Hayat (PASHTOON WARRIOR)Recommend

  • SKP
    Jan 18, 2011 - 9:51PM

    In all this discussion about condition of Indian Muslims one must remember that after partition, well to do elite class Muslim families migrated to Pakistan whereas poor, mostly illiterate Muslims remained in India (few exceptions: some Nawabs etc because they had too much land that they could take the risk of staying back). With that class of Muslims left in India, there were problems to begin with. Being poor brings little social/progressive awareness and that resulted in parents having many children ( I have seen on average 5-6 children) and that adds to more problems like lack of modern education, which in turn leads them to Madrassah education and further deteriorates their condition. India still being a 3rd world country, could not and can not cope with such population class as a whole. Before someone calls me bigot, let me say that similar class exists in Hindus as well. But at least Hindus have understood that having too many children is not an option, so their lot is improving a bit in ascending economy.

    ThxRecommend

  • Balma
    Jan 18, 2011 - 11:53PM

    It is a complex issue. No need for Pakistanis to shed “Magarmach’s Tasvay”‘ on indian Muslims. Muslims in India face horrible problems, but when you look at the condition of low caste Hindus, you would think Muslims in India are quite well off.
    I will write on this subject in more detail another time, but I bet no imam is being imprisoned in India for removing an -Eid-e-Milaad-un-Nabi poster!

    One more point: Muslims didn’t rule India. Those were empires that were headed by Muslim dynasties.

    And, another point for the writer: If all the Muslims in Bhopal and Hyderabad are the descendants of Hindus, did Muslims of Panjab and Sindh.. ‘Muhammad Bin Qasim kee kishtee yaa oonT per baith kar aayae thay’? And, what is wrong in being a convert’s descendant…poor or not?Recommend

  • Danish+S.
    Jan 19, 2011 - 3:07AM

    I don’t give a toss about what persecution (if any) muslim minority in India is facing. They’re indians and its India’s problem. But I found Mr/Ms bvindh comment quite ironic. If (s)he’s trying to defend his/her country’s (considering he/she is indian) image (s)he totally fumbled it and came across as a discriminatory/racist bigot, especially when he/she said “naturally, the unproductive part of the population, not being good at anything else, reproduces the most.” So much for “Indian Unity” huh! Recommend

  • Vicram Singh
    Jan 19, 2011 - 3:20AM

    @Anwar Hayat (PASHTOON WARRIOR) : “India’s jails hold a disproportionate number of the country’s minority Muslims, a sign of discrimination and alienation from the Hindu majority.”

    The problem with Muslims is that it is ALWAYS the other person who is responsible for their miseries. And not just Indian jails, jails in the UK also hold a dis-proportionate number of Muslims. If there is smoke, there is fire, no ?

    What I have noticed is that, unlike other communities, Muslims have a propensity for indulging in illegal activities. Do read about how Pakistani gentlemen are grooming English girls for sex. Recommend

  • Ram
    Jan 19, 2011 - 3:29AM

    The writer and Pakistani’s either live another planet or they are myopic and have only read Pak propaganda. Why don’t you people read some international news papers. They are available on the web or be ignorant and be in a bliss.

    I see news about blasphemy, killings, bombings, beheding, raping and parading women on the streets, honor killings. Besides, every human is person and have rights not just muslims like people like to think, why? Is muslims and islam something special? Look around, the oprressve governments are in muslim countries. Most of the poverty is among muslims across the world, most illiteracy across the world is among muslims. All of you can believe in the publicity all you want while your inept government is twiddling its thump.

    Nobody is stopping Indian muslims from migrating to Pakistan, why don’t writer and the opinionators of this board put out a call and see how many will stand in line. What I am saying is put your money where the mouth is!Recommend

  • Mohammad
    Jan 19, 2011 - 4:55AM

    When the ship is sinking the mice are the first to run out! No doubt that the Pakistani mice who could have run out Have run out, what’s left are those who simply put cannot run out! A loose state with second grade nationals left behind will just look for random topics to comment on!

    What is surprising is that there is no premise for this article. Its like talking about some deep sea fish which doesnt even exist and pass it across as a news article.

    Nice Fiction must say! afterall thats the only thing that sells in the day dreaming town called pakistan.Recommend

  • ahmed
    Jan 19, 2011 - 8:55AM

    Given that the Hindu minority of pakistan – 20+ percent post-partiion, but only 3% now – has been decimated or converted, Pakistan does not have a minority problem any more.

    Or, even any talk of job opportunities for Hindus in Pakistan. Heck, dodging that next bullet is enough of a full-time job for Pakistani Hindus,

    Nice going Pakistan!Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 19, 2011 - 12:03PM

    Anwar’s post surprised me. I was thinking what will be the response of my Paki brothers to the stats showing Muslims in India fare better than Pakistan.
    Instead of giving a thought about this, they started their usual stuff about how poor India is.
    Actually if you put my stats along with the Indian poverty stats, it should make my Pakistani brother hang their head in shame. Despite being woofully poor country, situation of minority muslims in India is better than overall situation in Pakistan.

    I think it is time for Pakis to stop sheding crocodile tears for Indian muslims and start taking care of their own business.Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 19, 2011 - 12:07PM

    @Anwar

    Instead of writing big paragraphs and at the end saying “Pakistan is better off” why don’t you put statistics from credible source (possibly with links) side by side and let viewers decide who is better off.Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 19, 2011 - 3:06PM

    @Abhinav

    You’ve lost this argument, go away now and worry about the 79% of your population which lives below $2 a day thank you.Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 19, 2011 - 3:08PM

    Hindu population in Pakistan has NOT decreased.

    Hindu population at partition in Pakistan resided mostly in East Pakistan, after 1971 what did East Pakistan become? Bangladesh.

    Are we suppose to add the population of Hindus in Bangladesh to our own demographic count?

    Please use your brains.Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 19, 2011 - 3:13PM

    @abhinav

    I’ve given sources, look carefully. Had you bothered to actually read what i wrote instead of getting ticked off that I shut you up then maybe you would have seen them. Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 19, 2011 - 3:21PM

    Population of Hindus in Pakistan
    1950 Census
    East Pakistan = 5,128,280 (made up 13% of East Pakistan population)
    West Pakistan = 2,366,893 (made up 2% of West Pakistan population)

    1998 Census
    Bangladesh = 13,841,247 or 15,797,076
    Pakistan = 2,443,614

    So how have Hindus been eliminated?

    You seem to lack that when you’re in your Pakistaniphobia State of Mind, which is 24 hours a day. Amazing just how obsessed and indulged they are with Pakistan.

    PS. What happened MF HUSSAIN? or to that Imran Hashmi actor. Even big name Indian Muslim personalites admit racism and hatred in india?

    Debate closed.
    Anwar Hayat (PASHTUN WARRIOR)Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 19, 2011 - 5:19PM

    @Anwar
    I lost the argument because you say so, pretty cool.
    I think you yourself is not reading the numbers you are posting.
    1950 Census
    East Pakistan = 5,128,280 (made up 13% of East Pakistan population)
    West Pakistan = 2,366,893 (made up 2% of West Pakistan population)

    1998 Census
    Bangladesh = 13,841,247 or 15,797,076
    Pakistan = 2,443,614

    so you can see populatoin of Hindus more than doubled in east pak/bangladesh while in west pak it remained same. Also meanwhile the population of pakistan almost doubled from 90 millon to present 180 millian, but Hindu population did not increase, so it is a percentage dip.

    The same is the case with most of your statistcs you are not reading it yourself.
    Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 19, 2011 - 5:49PM

    @Anwar
    Please explain the application of the Blasphemy law over the recent past within your country. That should answer all issues Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 20, 2011 - 2:46AM

    @abhinav
    Yeah you lost, good you admit to it.

    Next, I read the numbers quite carefully and posted them to prove that Hindus are not being “ethnically cleansed” (or should it be religiously cleansed) from Pakistan. Over 2.5 million Hindus STILL reside in Pakistan mind you. And never once did I mention there was no discrimination against Hindus in Pakistan, obviously there has been issues with them.

    But to say we are religiously cleansing them is preposterous and a complete lie. Hindus (which reside mostly in Sindh) are pure Sindhi nationalists. They view themselves as apart of the Sindhi soil and the Muslim Sindhis respect them for that, and in many cases are protected and taken care of. In other instances they are attacked by mullah faggots and other brainwashed idiots. But is that suffice to say, that ALL Pakistanis view Hindus in that narrow state of mind? Of course not. Are the conditions of Hindus in Pakistan bad? Of course, but just like how the upper and middle class Muslims left India for Pakistan, the same can be said for Hindus in Pakistan. The ones who remained behind in both countries were the poorest of the lot, and haven’t been able to get out of the vicious circle of poverty, just like a large chunk of Muslims living in Pakistan who are in the same condition.

    I fail to understand why you Indians continuously lie and force this idea that “we hate Hindus and we hate India”. I for one don’t give a rats behind about India, I’m a Pashtun, my loyalty lies in Pakistan. My heritage and culture is based here (and also in Afghanistan). As for Hindus, I wouldn’t know one until he or she told me. Otherwise I would view them as another random person living here. So grow up and get out of this Pakistaniphobia bubble your Indian education system is teaching you (not to mention your biased media). Indian Nationalism is heavily based on hating Pakistan. Elections can be won in India based on how much to hate Pakistan. That’s pretty pathetic if you ask me.

    @Subbu Jois
    The Blasphemy law is a colonial law which was passed before partition. It’s a joke which should be removed at once. And no that doesn’t answer much of the issues, especially considering the plight of Indian Muslims. Why don’t you use your brain for more than 1 second, and come up with something useful to add to the debate, instead blabbering out some mumbo jumbo. Hmm? Yeah…Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Jan 20, 2011 - 9:26AM

    @ Anwar aka PASHTUN WARRIOR

    Debates cannot be closed by a person’s wish.

    Inteligent people make their writing short and more meaningful and the opposites goes to the fools :)

    Btb, who on the earth you are war with ?

    P.S. I didnt bother to read your post as its like a story, so I am responding to your shorter post.Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 20, 2011 - 12:43PM

    I think Anwar has left for a battle. He has many deamons to kill and dragons to slay. Why will he waste his time with satistics.Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 20, 2011 - 5:08PM

    @ Anwar
    I suggest you need to read Pak media more to understand the problem and dont have to look far. Here are some links for you to read up on the state of affairs in Pak:

    Salman Tanveer’s assassination on account of the said law!
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/105096/when-will-we-stop-blaming-the-rest-of-the-world/
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/106130/the-gathering-storm/
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/77473/another-blasphemy-accused-killed/
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/103891/blasphemy-allegations-another-christian-family-on-the-run/
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/98599/why-do-they-pick-on-us-pakistanis/

    Read the comments from amongst the readers itself!
    Which country have you been alluding to till date as “the land of the pure”? Good luck with your aspirations on making your dreams true! If you cannot get your blinkers off, you will see the truth for yourself! Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 20, 2011 - 5:49PM

    Another big reply without any data. I little more careful research tells worse.

    Number of Hindus in west pakistan remained same from 1951 to 1998 ( 47 years) while total population of Pak was more than trippled 40 M to 130 M (I got the number from wikipedia :))
    so 2.5 M Hindus given fare condtions to live whould be at least 5-6 M in 1998. Where are these 3-4 M hindus? This clearly indicate it is not just some small problems? Just compare it with Muslims in India. At the time of partition Muslims were 10% of the population now they are 13%(Their growth outpaced general population growth). Still you claim that muslims in India are supressed while hindu in pak are treated well.

    Your claim has no basis at all. Also as you are claiming to be pukhtun, there was a recent incident in KP where Sikhs were kidnapped and asked to pay ransom because of their faith.Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 20, 2011 - 5:54PM

    Also these 2.5 million Hindus are still there, probably because they don’t want to leave the land of their ancestors or they don’t have enogh resource to move out. That doesn’t mean they have very good living conditions there. Even after holocast few jews survived in germany.Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 20, 2011 - 10:37PM

    @abhinav
    Read what I’ve written. Are Hindus being cleansed out of Pakistan? Clearly not. As for the Muslim population in India, do factor in the conversion rate. Many non-Muslim Indians have converted to Islam (much more than India would like to admit), the most famous being AR Rehman.

    It’s amazing how a country 1/3rd your size makes you all feel to inferior.

    Cheers matesRecommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 20, 2011 - 10:59PM

    @Abhinav

    All I was trying to prove was that Pakistan is not religiously cleansing Hindus. You tried your best to lie about the Hindu population decreasing. And now here you are again, talking about “what if” and “it’s suppose to be”. 2.5 million still reside here. They are proud Sindhis and many of them are beginning to come into mainstream.

    Deepak Perwani – fashion designer
    Giyan Chand – foreign diplomat
    Ramesh Lal – Members of Parliament
    Krishna Bheel – former Member of Parliament
    Rana Bhagwandas – former Chief Justice

    Those are the ones I know off the top of my head, not a great big list, but hey it’s something. You’ve failed at trying to prove we kill Hindus. Worry about the Muslims in India which you treat like second class citizens.Recommend

  • Zeeshan Pandit
    Jan 21, 2011 - 3:50AM

    @abhinav

    The data for Muslims of India and the data for Pakistanis didn’t indicate as you put it “some of the stats are better for indian muslims in compare to Pak”. The differences were almost similar despite Pakistan carrying with it FATA, KP, and Balochistan (Pakistanis would argue that they have built a nation where Pashtuns and Balochs have better lives here than in Afghanistan). The parameters you used were selectively in favor of your POV. Why didn’t you use various other parameters (e.g., number of Pakistanis at Oxbridge and Ivy League institutions and number of Muslims from India at those institutions)? That’s one parameter Pakistanis would point out in favor of Pakistan with a huge margin.

    Likewise, you ignored the brutality endured by Muslims of India pointed out by the Sachar report: ghettoization, communal content in Indian textbooks, Urdu as a liability in the Indian state, discrimination against Muslims when they seek loans and jobs, etc.

    Why were all the above things faced by Muslims of India? The Indian perspective argued that the fault lies on Muslims and therefore absorbing the Indian state from any responsibility. Pakistanis argued that the Indian state itself is a discriminatory agent where Muslims would not be allowed to embrace their marker or identity without facing heavy consequences. The Sachar committee report is in favor of Pakistan perspective.Recommend

  • Zeeshan Pandit
    Jan 21, 2011 - 4:22AM

    @abhinav,

    There are Hindus, Parsis, and Christians who chose to stay in Pakistan (e.g., Deepak Parwani, Ardeshir Cowasjee, Rana Bhagwandass etc.). They are all people who are rich enough to migrate elsewhere. Muslims in India too would have migrated elsewhere if they could afford it (hence you see tons of educated Muslims from India working and living in Gulf countries and in Western nations). Muslims, like those in Ahmadebad, have to resort living at the periphery of the state just to survive as they have no other options nor wealth to migrate elsewhere. That’s why you have Muslim ghettos in India. Those ghettos, as one of your fellow Indian commentator pointed out, are “scary places to be in”. Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 21, 2011 - 12:04PM

    @ Anwar & Zeeshan
    Care to comment on the Brutalities on Muslims in Pak – Lets hear about Bengalis (pre -1971 East Bengal- 1 Million Killed), Ahmadiyas, Shias and the like!?
    How about Blasphemy laws which is being used against Xians, Ahmadiayas, etc?Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 21, 2011 - 2:04PM

    @Zeeshan and Anwar

    I can also provide a list of muslim personalities in India who are rich enogh to migrate but are living and thriving in India. and that list will not be so small as yours. Infact many muslims from Pak are coming to work in Bollywood.

    Anwar again if I go by your statement, Muslim pop increased in India because of conversion (AR Rehman is famous example, Chandramohan is infamous exmaple), doesn’t it indicate that muslims are free to preach their religion and even convert others. How can you say they are suppressed? Who will want to convert and live in ghettos as described by Zeeshan. If someone in Pak wants to convert to anyother religion from Islam, he will be killed (Not by lynch mob but by court)Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 21, 2011 - 2:47PM

    @Zeeshan

    I haven’t taken any random indicators, these are the indicators used by unicef and are part of Human Development Index. Number of students in Ivy league is not a measurement of good human conditions back home.

    More number of pakistanis in Oxford may also mean that there are no good educational institutes in Pakistan.

    And yes you can say that at present Pakistan provides better opportunity to Pakhtuns than Afghanistan, but with increasing terror incidents in Pakistan you don’t know it will how long it will hold true.Recommend

  • Zeeshan Pandit
    Jan 21, 2011 - 9:40PM

    @Subbu Jois,

    Where do you get the 1 million number? Did you pull it out from another Indian blog? The number estimated by Bengali historians ranged from 26,000 to 300,000. The number was needed to be exaggerated to justify the liberation of Bangladesh and from the Indian POV, the number needs to be blown out of proportion to denounce Pakistanis as blood thirsty murderers.

    Secondly, do you truly care about Bangladeshis being killed? I doubt it as you view Bangladeshis, especially Bangladeshi Muslims as your demographic threat. You have even build wall to fence off Bangladeshis.

    Thirdly, while you are eager to point out atrocities of 1971, why are you silent against the atrocities committed in Kashmir? Check the atrocities your army is committing in Kashmir and Northeast.Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 22, 2011 - 7:47AM

    @ Zeeshan
    Those are the number the Bangladesh govt is accusing Pakistan off! Now deal with it. Now that you have admitted to the atrocities ( a first by a Pak), get down from your moral high ground and mind your country’s business which heading at high speed into a chaotic downward spiral. We know how to take care of our brethren, irrespective of religion! Recommend

  • Zeeshan Pandit
    Jan 23, 2011 - 11:50AM

    @Subbu Jois,

    How could you deal with number provided without any proof backing it? Last time I checked, your country is heading toward a downward spiral too with 200,000 farmer suicides, maoist rebellion, liberation movements if Northeast and Kashmir. It is just that your country is very large and therefore is able to absorb and hide all these problems. I was not riding a high horse, it is you who were riding it.Recommend

  • prashanth
    Jan 23, 2011 - 2:20PM

    @Indian, Bangkok:
    Yeah, Indian Muslims are your personal property to give away!Recommend

  • G.Khan
    Jan 23, 2011 - 10:09PM

    It’s such a pity that these Indians are here to compare their Stats with that of Pakistan. I think their Population size better match with China. I tell you why don’t they go there and put up this comparasion with Chinese. LOL. Do I really suppose to reveal it all? There is One thing called”Inferiority Complex” which is quite different from Heavy Industrial Complex Or Sports Complex. Unfortunately, medical sciences have not broken through the cure for this disease yet. I think Indians will do it as they are growing up 9.5 percent annually. LOL.. Good Luck!!!

    My last note : Do you see as many Pakistanis going on their News sites and Postings? That again brings us to the Diagnosis of the “Inferiority Complex “. And you will find most of their debate based on 1) Falsified data 2) Lies and 3) irrelevent deatils and feeling of Grandeur ( the manifestation of Inferiority complex ) which no one gives a penny anyway. LOL. Good Luck . Keep tying. Recommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 25, 2011 - 12:37PM

    After Anwar and Zeshaan’s failed attempt to win the argument, here is G Khan.
    If you can’t handle stats why ask for it.
    Now coming to china question, why those stats should be compared on a Paki website. Also it is not the chinese who are talking about supressed muslims of India.Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 25, 2011 - 1:10PM

    @ Zeeshan
    Ask the Bangla Govt. – the 1 Million figure is quoted by the Bangladeshis, your former countrymen! Need we remind you of the killing fields of Bangladesh?! And Pak talks of protecting Islam where it shamelessly massacres its own! A Joke!

    @G Khan and the rest – How come when we quote numbers, it is false lies and all that, but not when you quote. Many of the facts,stats and references that I quoted are from Pak sites, not even Indian.

    For those who keep harping on Naxals – to educate your ignorance, Naxals number less than 10000 and are facing frequent surrenders or shot in encounters. The movement is waning and getting desperate. Most “Naxals” are petty criminals trying to make the best of the opportunity and credit the same to Naxals.

    Quit hypocracy, conspiracy theories and living in denial! You can match up to India only when you accept that you have a problem. Get real and quit living in your dreams.
    We have a problem and we will deal with it. It is not a joke to run a country of 1.3 Billion speaking 3000 languages and myraid diversity that India enjoys. Recommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 25, 2011 - 3:19PM

    @Abhinav

    Failed attempts to win the argument? Hahaha.

    These indians first tried to say “Muslims in India are better off” – you failed at proving that.
    Then they tried to say we are “cleasing Pakistan of Hindus” – you failed at proving that.

    And now they’ve resorted to the so-called “Bangaldeshi genocide”, one which isn’t even recognized in the world. Anytime a news story or documentary is covered on World Genocides why isn’t the so called Bangladeshi genocide every mentioned? It’s because it can’t be proven it even happened to begin with and mainly because the only people who harp on about a genocide happening are INDIANS, a country which massacred HOW many Muslims in Gujarat and continue to massacre Muslims in Kashmir? Funny how the Armenian or Rwandan genocide are often mentioned, yet nobody ever brings up the “Bangladesh genocide”.

    Lastly, Indians shouldn’t worry much about Bangladesh. What’s more surprising is that Bangladeshis today view Pakistanis more as friends than Indians. Look no further than a common Pakistan vs India cricket match in Dhaka, where the majority of the crowd was supporting Pakistan. And to add insult to injury, it’s no secret that ISI and Bangladesh work together.

    Should explain why Assam raised a Pakistan flag last year.

    Cheers mates :DRecommend

  • Anwar
    Jan 25, 2011 - 3:20PM

    @Subbu Jois

    Diversity? Pakistan probably is much more diverse than India, 300 languages which all sound the same isn’t diverse.

    :DRecommend

  • abhinav
    Jan 25, 2011 - 3:37PM

    @Anwar
    So if again I go by assertion, ISI with the help of Bangladesh trying to destablize India?
    Then why are you asking proof when India accuses ISI for involvement in terror activities.
    I think in this thread only you have put your foot in mouth enogh times and should think twice before posting. Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 25, 2011 - 9:48PM

    @ Zeeshan
    This is the two faced hypocrisy that we are talking about! When it comes to crimes by Pak, you have a different yardstick and remain in denial completely. Secondly, numbers presented by you alone are facts, not by others. Thirdly, every dubious act of deceit and murder, including the one you are alluding to, of your ISI involving Bangladesh in militancy is acceptable, even though it costs innocent lives. Which world have you grown up in and which world are you living in?
    This very news paper and site refers to the crimes against minorities in Pak which somehow are conveniently overlooked. The shame that Pakistanis are feel has been written in this very site in no mean measure.

    @ Anwar – not sure if you read math in school. 3000 is a number 10 times larger than 300, even if there were so many languages spoken in Pak.

    All I can say – do accept your problems and fix them rather than find faults with your neighbours. We want no part of it – either good or bad! Just keep your problems to yourselves and we are better off. It is when your politicians and so-called elite divert the attention of the ordinary Pakistani from the problems on the home front with religious jingoism and jihadi fervor that we have problem. They have failed your country and brought it to ruin. In order to pass censure, they will turn your attention to India to escape censure. Recommend

  • Syed Sabihur Rahman
    Jan 26, 2011 - 7:56PM

    @Anwar

    I had heard that Pakistanis are taught propaganda in the name of History, and now my worst fears have come true. So you have never seen the Bangaldesh massacre in the list of the world’s worst genocides?? Where have you been looking? “Iqbal’s book of bedtime stories”, “101 Lahori Nights”, or the archives of Geo TV??

    You do not even have to dig in University archives to get educated. Try going to the most widely used forum for online research, Wikipedia: and type “Genocides in history”. It has the Bangla massacre sticking out to puncture your illusions. If you have the access to a University (do you??), then step inside one and pick up R. J. Rummel’s 1997 book “Statistics of Democide: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900″ and refer to Chapter 8. It is called “Statistics Of Pakistan’s Democide Estimates, Calculations, And Sources”. In it he looks at the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War and gives data to conclude that the event was not just a genocide, but a democide: “the murder of any person or people by a government, including genocide, politicide, and mass murder.” And if you have access to impartial news coverage (I doubt it), then confirm the fact that the Bangladeshi government has set up a tribunal to prosecute those accused of committing war crimes during the country’s war of independence in 1971 IN THE YEAR 2010. And here you are, living at the benthic bottom of a well and croaking merrily. Ignorance truly is bliss for you. Are you even AWARE that General Amir Abdullah Khan Niazi surrendered along with 94000 soldiers in 1971 before Indian forces?? What was he doing in Bangladesh with 94000 forces in 1971? Catching Hilsa in the river Padma? http://www.gendercide.org lists 22 case studies of the worst mass murders in the history of mankind, with female infanticide and with-hunts included in the list. And surprise surprise, Bangaldesh mass murders make this devilish list AS WELL!!!

    You talked of unrest in Bangladesh against India. Do you know that every day, there are hundreds of refugees from Bangladesh who are willing to brave the Indian army and get inside India?? So they would be willing to risk their lives to get inside a country which they hate from the bottom of their hearts?? Talking of getting inside India, there are so many reputed Pakistanis who have tried every trick in the book to sneak into India. Have you heard of Wasim Akram, Adnan Sami, Ali Zafar, and scores of other artists who have either settled here, or have made India as their most preferred residence? On the contrary, how many Indian muslims can you name who have tried to migrate to Pakistan after 1947?? Furthermore, what became of those who did that in 1947?? You talked of a Pakistani flag in Assam, but what about Altaf Hussain of MQM who declared in an open forum in India that “Creation of Pakistan is a historic blunder”? :D :D

    How old are you exactly, Anwar? I might excuse you for your ignorance if you are 12 or less. But if you are any older than that, then I can only pity you for believing that all the Indian languages “sound alike” and that Pakistan is more diverse than India. Did Qadri tell you that, or did the ghost of Zia whisper that in your dreams, because no geography text, even one penned in the Pakistani Presidential Palace can dare to declare that? Do you seriously believe that Tamil, Hindi, Kashmiri, Bangla, Kannada, Portuguese, Manipuri, and Ladakhi sound the same, with their different SCRIPTS??? Wallah biradar! If educated Pakistanis commenting on web forums are so pitiable in terms of intellect, what can one expect from the 40000 people converging to support blasphemy laws!

    The most Pakistani thing that you have said, however, was that Hindus and other minorities do not have any danger in Pakistan. Why exactly was Salman Taseer gunned down?? Why is Sherry Rahman’s life under threat? What is the debate about blasphemy laws being used to target minorities in Pakistan? I can understand you not reading Indian and international news, but at least pick up a paper of your own country. It will perhaps help you progress beyond 12.Recommend

  • Haider
    Jan 27, 2011 - 9:30AM

    @Farah:
    By reading your comment, I conclude that you don’t know anything about Indian muslims. To quote ‘I think Indian Muslims have been one of the greatest living tragedies of the partition. Whilst those Muslims living in Pakistan have enjoyed..’ They are safer than the muslims in Pakistan where the Muslims are fighting among themselves. Majority of Muslims in India suffer because they are misled by the Ulemas & not by the state. Quite a lot of muslims communities on the other hand are well established like the Bohras, Khojas, Memons to name a few. Indian economy is far ahead of that of Pakistan’s which is utter ruin.Recommend

  • Naeem Siddiqui,Australia
    Jan 27, 2011 - 11:50AM

    Too much angry comments by so many indians!

    It look like Khaled Ahmed Hit where it hurts :)Recommend

  • Syed Sabihur Rahman
    Jan 27, 2011 - 12:38PM

    @Naeem: People who have dignity are bound to get hurt. On the contrary, a nation who is perennially at the doorsteps of gore sahibs with a begging bowl should not have the audacity to take cheap potshots at others being haunted by sucking ghosts of jealousy. :D Nice that you fled to Australia before the beghairat brigade got to you. Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 27, 2011 - 12:43PM

    @ Syed and Haider – Thanks!

    @ Anwar & Zeeshan

    Here is some verbatim for you from Wikipedia:

    Pakistan (Bangladesh War of 1971)
    Main articles: 1971 Bangladesh atrocities, Operation Searchlight, and Bangladesh Liberation War
    In 1997 R. J. Rummel published a book, available on the web, called “Statistics of Democide: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900,” In Chapter 8 called “Statistics Of Pakistan’s Democide Estimates, Calculations, And Sources” In it he looks at the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War. Rummel wrote:
    In East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) [the President of Pakistan, General Agha Mohammed Yahya Khan, and his top generals] also planned to murder its Bengali intellectual, cultural, and political elite. They also planned to indiscriminately murder hundreds of thousands of its Hindus and drive the rest into India. And they planned to destroy its economic base to insure that it would be subordinate to West Pakistan for at least a generation to come. This plan may be perceived as genocide.[148]
    Rummel goes on to collate the what considers the most credible estimates published by others into what he calls democide. He writes that “Consolidating both ranges, I give a final estimate of Pakistan’s democide to be 300,000 to 3,000,000, or a prudent 1,500,000.” Other authors like Anthony Mascarenhas and Donald W. Beachler have cited a figure ranging between 1 – 3 million civilians killed by Pakistan Army;[251] Bleacher states that both Pakistan and its primary ally USA have denied Genocide allegations.[252]
    A case was filed in the Federal Court of Australia on 20 September 2006 for alleged crimes of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity during 1971 by the Pakistani Armed Forces and its collaborators:[253]
    “ We are glad to announce that a case has been filed in the Federal Magistrate’s Court of Australia today under the Genocide Conventions Act 1949 and War Crimes Act. This is the first time in history that someone is attending a court proceeding in relation to the [alleged] crimes of Genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity during 1971 by the Pakistani Armed Forces and its collaborators. The Proceeding number is SYG 2672 of 2006. On 25 October 2006, a direction hearing will take place in the Federal Magistrates Court of Australia, Sydney registry before Federal Magistrate His Honor Nicholls. ”
    On 21 May 2007, at the request of the applicant “Leave is granted to the applicant to discontinue his application filed on 20 September 2006.” (FILE NO: (P)SYG2672/2006)[254]
    The Guinness Book of Records lists the atrocities in East Pakistan (Bangladesh) as one of the top 5 genocides in the 20th century.[255}

    More reading at

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BangladeshLiberationWar

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971Bangladeshatrocities

    Educate yourselves of the facts, and get real, for once! Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 27, 2011 - 12:50PM
  • vasan
    Jan 28, 2011 - 10:04AM

    It appears that the Indian bloggers are protective about their muslim brotheren and their status and hence good for the diversity in India. But unfortunately Pakistanis want to lit the fire of community violence somehow or other. They wont succeed. Surprising no Indian muslim has written objecting the Indian views expressed Or am I missing something. One important point brought about was the status of muslim is backward in certain status not because of the discrimination by the govt or state but by the edicts and fatwas by ulemas and followers of them. Objection to the family planning, objection to polio vaccination and Saibano case are examples.Recommend

  • Syed Sabihur Rahman
    Jan 28, 2011 - 11:55AM

    @Vasan: I did not get why exactly you are surprised. Please explain your comment about Indian Muslims not having commented on this article. There are umpteen comments from them above. What particular aspect do you feel they have not commented on?

    As for the “fatwas by ulemas”, muslims in India get to know of them from the same source as you do, the sensation-seeking press. Recommend

  • Subbu Jois
    Jan 28, 2011 - 12:31PM

    @Vasan
    enough number of Indians ( Hindus, Muslims and Atheists(!)) have commented! Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Jan 28, 2011 - 6:47PM

    @Ali:
    Which organisation do you work in? Wll make sure will not have anything to do with it. With manpower with analytical skills as yours, it will soon shut shop.Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Jan 28, 2011 - 6:48PM

    @Naeem Siddiqui,Australia:
    Wise guy, if the author is so worried about Indians, what do you expect?Recommend

  • Sarma
    Jan 29, 2011 - 9:58PM

    So much discussion about the future of muslims in India. They are 400 Million in number (yes, don’t believe other statistics). They know how to take care of themselves. They have become Presidents, Vice-Presidents, Members of Parliament, the biggest Bollywood stars, etc. in the free India which Bapu ensured for them and also the others.

    Look at what you have done to your muslims in your country. You gave them not democracy but Khaki and corruption. No development, no jobs, no progress but death, destruction and gore in plenty. Every time there is a terrorist activity anywhere on the planet, your country’s name somehow manages to be in the focus.

    No country has killed its own citizens the way your country has managed so far in Bangladesh. Everyday, there is bloodshed and some family is missing out a dear member. You have not spared even places of worship and you have bombed them and killed worshippers. What is there for you to show ? You talk and talk about Kashmir and who gave you the right to cede 800 sq. kms of Kashmiri land to the Chinese ? Why are you teaching so much hatred and have you seen the result in your country every day ?

    And you have the gall to write about Indian muslims ? They are us, our brothers. We will take care of them in every possible way. They are part of our culture. They are the Mohd. Rafis, Naushad Alis, Waheedas, AR Rehmans, Shabanas, Javeds, Sharukhs, Nargiss, Dilip Kumars, Salmans, Saifs.. they are part of the Indian mosaic which you have lost. They are dear to us as much as our own lives. They own the country known as Bharat. They are not our guests, they are the hosts, owners of India.Recommend

  • Aruni
    Feb 3, 2011 - 10:27AM

    Nice article…muslim and hindu relations in india have always been under strain….We enjoy what is called mutual respect and disrespect….However a lot depends on generations also….My g

    randmom hates Muslims….She had been a witness to partition and believes that muslims are the worst religious sect ever….If you try to reason that in partition, killings were done by both sides then she would not agree with us and would remain adamant…I still remember that once we had hired a mason to repair our house …she shouted at my dad because we had let a muslim mason work in the worship place which had “shiva linga’ also. When I was in my teens and left home to join college….she told “Dekh beta jo bhi kar lekin ghar me mussalman ladki mat lana”…. That ended my first college romance also….

    the next generation that is my parents hold a reserved view…they were witness to incidents like babri masjid demolition and anti sikh riots…etc etc….The responsibility of which lies with hindu radicals….So for them it is a reserved outlook. Maybe thats why BJP lost so decisively after GODHRA…After all nobody likes to identified with BAD BOYS…

    Now comes our generation…we are least bothered with partition ….hinduism and islam confrontations…we dream to make it big in life…rather than hinduvs mussalman…it is tcs vs wipro…for us. Currently I am In chennai…I have a bihari muslim as roommate…he is an awesome cook….My grandmom would kill me if she knew that i have chicken prepared by a muslim,,,,The last thing we are concerned about is religion…Islam in india is practised freely…saints like sai-baba have followers from all sects…. I believe that our generation holds the key….and we can make a difference by keeping religion in our houses and reaching out for one another….”HUMANITY IS THE ULTIMATE RELIGION”Recommend

  • Vikas
    Feb 28, 2011 - 5:44AM

    A very one-sided article here. If the Indian Muslims are not in good jobs and not educated, we have to ask ourselves if those SAME muslims were any better off before. Just by getting converted to Islam if you believe that the Indian government would start new programs to uplift those people, it would be a hard job for any government. It has often been mentioned in the article that Indian Muslims are targets of communal riots. Even the Indian Muslims would not agree. They are very well aware that they like to get adventurous and do eve teasing, throwing stones after hearing “good religious speaches” at Friday prayers and the riots start. What some Muslims complain about is why the police does not help them!! The Indian Muslims and the Muslims in the peninsula have to realize that they were actually Hindus and were forcibly converted in a manner that no religion would be proud to own. Get back into Hindu fold and you will make the world a better place.Recommend

  • Vikas
    Feb 28, 2011 - 5:51AM

    @Ali:
    You are wrong. The IIM entrance exams are held and are very competitive. Just by being a Muslim you can qualify only under the quota system. Otherwise you will have to work hard. I have had Muslim classmates and very competetive. Compare the people. How many from Indian Hindu backward classes manage to move up ? How many from Pakistan’s backward classes manage to move up ? If the muslims thought of good things of life, they will move up.Recommend

  • mudassar
    Mar 14, 2011 - 12:15AM

    JOKE!

    Being a indian muslim, i can very safely say that my country is the best for any Muslim in the world to live in..its plural, secular and gives me a plethora of economic opportunities.

    We came from a lower middle class family, but due to education for me and my 2 sisters, all 3 of us work for huge indians and MNC IT companies something which is impossible in pakistan.

    Pakistan is stuck in a mad frenzy where its getting screwed from all sides. Now at this juncture, i thank the author that he still thinks of us indian muslims!!

    To all my pakistani brothers and sisters, there is abs no persecution or denial of religious freedom in india. whatever skirmishes we have here is nothing compared to the muslims blowing up muslim analogy in pakistan. So please yearn to atleast reach the status of indian muslims before you think of saving them!Recommend

  • Bilal
    Mar 15, 2011 - 7:54AM

    As a British citizen but ethnically Pakistani, I can safely say that Pakistan is a failed state. People like to wish and fantasize that Pakistan is the perfect ‘Islamic’ state, however, truth be told, Pakistan is far from being a Islamic state. Only when the Shariah becomes the ONLY law of the land, and the Qur’an and Sunnah become the sources of law, then Pakistan can be an Islamic state. As for now, you can only chant nationalistic garbage and get carried away in your bubble.

    As for the Muslims in India, I ask Allah to give them patience and make them steadfast in their religion, and I ask Allah to guide the people of India to Islam.Recommend

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