Pakistan

WikiLeaks: A bleak vision of Pak-India relations

Indian official says Pakistan will continue to "find a reason to make trouble for us".

Express December 17, 2010

Latest cables released by WikiLeaks revealed that Indian officials gave a bleak vision of Pakistan-India relations even if longstanding issues are resolved.

In a meeting on November 24, 2009, Indian Ministry of External Affairs Joint Secretary for Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iran Affairs YK Sinha lamented Pakistan and India's relations.

"Call me a cynic," Sinha sighed, "but even if India were to lop off Kashmir and hand it on a platter to Pakistan, they would still find a reason to make trouble for us."

Sinha said the composite dialogue with Pakistan was paused and would not resume until Pakistan takes "credible and verifiable measures" against terror directed at India.

"We have no benchmarks" for resumption, Sinha stated, adding that improvement in bilateral ties is not dependent on a single measure such as Pakistani action against Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) supremo Hafez Saeed.

He also said he was convinced that the LeT was "a creature of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and armed by the ISI."

Sinha also said that Pakistan was not serious about bringing the Mumbai attack masterminds to justice "because the Pakistanis constantly interfere in the judicial process when it suits them to do so."

With additional reporting by Naureen Aqueel.

COMMENTS (43)

Sam | 13 years ago | Reply dont fight each other. lookitout.com

Sam | 13 years ago | Reply comonnnnnnnnn guys calm dwnnnnnnn.

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Ashutosh | 13 years ago | Reply @faraz, Agree with you to fight India need to be better equipped and manned with trained personnels. But this is the easier part. What are the options for that originating from out side India. Military buildup, lobbying for restricting trade & investments, sharing dossiers to prove involvement of outside elements, imposing visa restrictions, diplomatic offensive and international isolations are other steps to curb terrorism originating from out side own boarder. Also, for the nations who may have close relations with such countries, whenever, they face a terror related problem, India should go in for an diplomatic over drive to exert pressure to join in against terror and their propagators. Terror is a two sided sword. It ends up causing damage to their propagators as much as the targeted victims. Afghanistan and Pakistan are their burning examples.

Inswing | 13 years ago | Reply To my Pakistani pals, surely you don't believe Indians are still sore about the partition, do you ? Its been more than 60 years !! Most of the people who saw partition aren't even alive. And India is better off without Pakistan. Although, I agree politicians in India never get enough of Pakistan bashing, they obviously need to mature. There is a section of the society who can't stand the sight of Pakistan, but really most of us just don't give a damn about Pakistan. BTW, I wish well for Pakistan. Hope she prospers and keeps her to herself.

faraz | 13 years ago | Reply @Jai Does India face any threat of conventional war? If India faces threat of terrorism, then it should invest on the police. Armies sitting in the barracks offer no defence against terrorism. I agree, pakistan will bankrupt itself if it tries to match Indian military capabilities. Both sides must focus on welfare of the masses. We are not living in the the era of ultranationalism that existed in the early 20th century europe. And nobody is foolish enough to attack the nations who have nuclear weapons. Pakistan or India do not face any external threat. This myth has been created only to justify the huge military expenditure. Look at europen nations, they slaughtered millions of each other but now they focus on trade and welfare. I wish someday we enjoy the same standard of living.

Shireen Khan | 13 years ago | Reply @ Anonymous, not surprised you do not use your name as your remark deserves to be anonymous- was not equating the two countries- we are miles apart, one is an emerging superpower with the worlds largest population of people living below the poverty level and the other is also getting poorer by the day. If we both do not stop our idiotic defence spending and start using our budget for the progress of our nations, we can forget the hope of our children and grandchildren living without the appaling poverty so apparent today.

User | 13 years ago | Reply @Shireen Khan No equating India and Pakistan mate, they are miles apart !!!

Shireen Khan | 13 years ago | Reply @S.Jayete, it is baffling that you bring China into the equation, the countries that benefit the most with an India Pakistan conflict are not the Chinese, the largest defence suppliers to these two countries are the U.S.A and Israel so it is in their self-interest to fan the animosity. As far as the Chinese being Godless is concerned, did you give the same advice to your government when the USSR was their biggest ally...... China is and will continue to be a true friend of Pakistan and not a fair weather one as we have experienced with other countries.. A perfect solution would be total co-operation between India & Pakistan, minimal defence budget and the billions saved utilised to alleviate poverty but fear the possibility of such a scenario is impossible due to vested interests on both sides of our borders. Another issue which one should address is terrorists in both our countries and not just bearded ones, at long last Wikileaks has proved what one has been saying for a long while that they exist in both countries, acknowledge this fact and we might work together to rid both our countries of this menace.

akash | 13 years ago | Reply hmm.. just reading the comments in the ET you just see so much hatred and mistrust among common people.. one of the things we Indians know for the fact is pakistan is different country. yes we know that.. and we are very happy with that. trust me 99% of indians do believe that. we know at our western border we have an enemy,.. there is no illusion :-). Hope my pak freinds understand we have moved on really. I hope educated ones in Pak understood that. and obsession with pak.. i think there was no obsession.. it started after mumbai attack. i dont think before there were so many indians following pak media. I never cared to know what was going in Pak. i think as long pak minds its own business like other neighbours then no probs... I wonder with so much mistrust there can ever be any freindship between these two countries. forget politicians.. common indians and pakistanis cannot trust each other... the whole way of thinking and reasoning is so opposite and polarised.. really. yes we do like some of your singers.. i agree there is a bit of obsession there.. :-).

R.Raheem | 13 years ago | Reply In order to keep the existence of Pakistan Army even if Kashmir issue is resolved PK Army will come up with something else. India Pakistan can never ever live in Peace. India should build a boundary wall separating India & Pakistan & no contact with each other since its just wastage of time & efforts.

Anoop | 13 years ago | Reply @Aun, "If indians really accept pakistan as a separate state-instead of lamenting over the division of united India-things would be much better. " --> Sure, if this thought makes you sleep peacefully at night then keep your head buried. Considering the mess that Pakistan is, partition, which I think was inevitable, is the best thing that happened to India. Now, all the bad blood is out. Its like cutting an infected limb to save the body. If you look at the limb now, you can clearly see the rot.

ashok sai | 13 years ago | Reply To all Pakistani friends, let me clear one point to you. The lower citizens of out country who are fighting with poverty, wont even know, what is Pakistan and What's happening there?. It is the middle-class people who are uplifing our economy and the country, worried about Pakistan. Our middle class people are feeling much more (huge) relieved with the fact that Pakistan was cut-off from us 63 years ago. All (the middle class) we are saying to Pakistan is, 'don't disturb us' and if you cannot tolerate our rise in the global world just close your eyes. @ G.Khan I think I have replied you regarding out relationship with neighbouring countries. I think you are running out of ideas, pity. Regarding Rahul's statement, its not Pakistan facing threat from Hindus, its our country which he thinks faces. So we know how to handle our inside threats and what about he is saying 'than the LET', that means LET is also a threat to our country. So you first try to educate your people about your government using state actors (ISI and LET are the same) against India. Last, atleast Rahul is worried about India, not like someone in Pakistan saying 'let them fire the drone, we will act like opposing it in assembly', shame on your leaders. Regards and Jai Ho.

Truth | 13 years ago | Reply @G.khan, It is your wishful thinking. India does not have any bad relationship with any other neighbour than Pak. Rahul Gandhi's statement for what ever reasons made are internal matter for India to deal with. Ofcourse you are free to think and believe what ever you want. But the fact remains India is progressing. Like any other contries there are small problems here and there, but the main point is she is progressing and progressing fast in the field of Education, medicine, health care, infrastrure, IT etc. Now think about yourself where you are going

Nazir Habib | 13 years ago | Reply Mr. Syed A Mateen this blogger agrees with you in totality. Talk, talk and nothing but talk is the ideology and doctrine imposed on us by America. Our leaders are indoctrinated by USA, that the threat perception is reduced by talking. India has adopted an intransigent attitude like that of Israel which comes up with some excuse for not doing something practical on the Palestinian state and stopping building settlements on Palestinian land. We can only live in peace, if this USA troublemaker gets out of the region and the Indians stop behaving like 'angraiz.' Talk positively on Kashmir and act because it remains the undecided remnant of partition. Salams and best wishes.

G.Khan | 13 years ago | Reply If Pakistan is the Trouble maker then What about other neighbors? India continuously Blaming Bangladesh for everything. Relationships are not good. What about Burma? and Then China ? All of them are wrong? And Only India is right? Let me tell you that the contrary is true. All of them are right and it's India itself who is troublemaker in the region. The reason is Loud and clrearly Stated in Rahul Gandhi's Statement in this paper that India has the biggest danger by the Hindu Extremists.

Raqib Ali | 13 years ago | Reply Indians don't talk about good relations. Give them five minutes and they will start saying that Pakistan should not have been created and if we unite, we can become super power. First Indian should accept us a separate country. No ifs and buts. Respect our choice first and then everything else.

sandeep limaye | 13 years ago | Reply pakistan and india cannot be friends. thats sure. paksitan is based on tnt means hindus and muslim are two nation. if india accept idea of pakistan means 17 or 18 crore of her muslim childrens are pakistani. no indian would accept his theory. india means every one may live together he may belongs to any religions it doesn't matter if pakistan accept this then what was need of pakistan on earth. so if an indian ask pakistani that we may be one nation whats wrong in it its up to you to reply back that what so ever happened happened and move forward now don't look back. but why you people get offended bye this. the remark about sachin and shoiab looks just a funny suggestion pakistan is truth now if somone say its night when its day you would have sympathy for that poor person why you are angry at him because you are not sure that its day or what

Rajat | 13 years ago | Reply correction: not "patent" but "parent"

Rajat | 13 years ago | Reply @Aun There is some truth to your statement. The exchange student may be a (hindu??) sindhi, punjabi. Kashmiri or a bengali. Those people who lost their homeland have deep aversion to partition. Similarly, any patent country's population will lament the fact that their country was broken off. This applies to englishmen who lost America in the 18th century, Indonesians who lost east timor recently, and even your own pakistanis who lost bangladesh in 1971. The bad taste in the mouth remains eternally.

akash | 13 years ago | Reply @aun.. again ignorance on part of general pakistani.. Indian leaders and public are more than happy that pakistan is a seperate state and moved long back. the book that you are talking about is written by i would say some one who was born during independence days and more a reflection of india pak during those times.. but clearly we indians have moved on.. the govt is thinking more about india and not really worrying whats happening in pakistan (untill we are attacked by terrorsits). the question asked by your friend i think had nothing to do with mindset.. it was simply why you guys got seperated with India.. if I were you i would tell him to read history books.. because many led by Mr. Jinnah did not believe or think they could live in harmony in a country where majority were hindus. Honestly friend in the hindsight we are happy pakistan is a seperate country. In the same way in kashmir.. only in Kashmir.. small group with similar feelings cant live with majority of hindus.. it has more to do with religion.. a section of people cant live with others. and if you talk of human rights issues in india and kashmir.. then i will talk issues in pakistan and debate will not end... so i would rather not go there. and yes indian defence budget is not just about pakistan...

Mohammed Abbasi | 13 years ago | Reply the people on the ground in both nations should increase direct links with each other - politicians will continue to cause trouble but the people matter

Sobriquet | 13 years ago | Reply @sharjeel khan: you are asking with what intentions does the Indian government meet with the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama has always talked about peace and never promoted violence. He and his fellow Tibetans have a refugee status in India. As a man of peace, not only India but the heads of all major Western governments meet him, except of course China and the countries that depend on Chinese financial aid. The whole world was talking to Mujibur Rahman, including Pakistan's dearest friend: China. On Mujibur Rahman you need to read unbiased history to determine what happened. Regarding Vellupalai Parbhakaran. he was declared a terrorist by India and India was trying to get him to stop violence and make peace with the Sri Lankan government.

User | 13 years ago | Reply Kingdom of the Bud Shah belongs to the people of the nation who stand up for the justice and the very Independence of the fatherland called Jammu Kashmir and not to those people who have got the fathers coming from unknown destination and love to serve the interest of the outsiders instead of fighting against them by kicking them out of the our country and protecting the our very birth right of the nation’s Independence

jai | 13 years ago | Reply @Faraz India does not have the huge military spending you talk of. As a percentage of GDP India spends far less on military than Pakistan. Being a larger country India's defence requirements are also more. If India's military was geared only for Pakistan we could make do with 1/10th the spending. Fact is Pakistan is no match and you are welcome to bankrupt yourselves trying to match wits with India with the size of your economy. Agar Pakistan apni chadar se bahar pair pasar raha hai, usme galti India ki nahi hai. India will keep increasing because we have bigger fish to fry.

Satyameva Jayate | 13 years ago | Reply The problem is that since the time of Zia, a virulent form of Islam has taken over Pakistan and has consistently revised history books and made India some sort of a monster. In the history of India ( which included Pakistan till 60 years back), we have never invaded another country. All we want is Economic development and all we hope for Pakistan is Economic development as well. Not some stupid religion based bickerings. And I am really surprised that a God Fearing Islamic country like Pakistan has a Godless country like China as its best friend. Trust me guys, China is up to no good. It only keeps the fire burning between the both of us so that it can keep growing while we keep burning.

Faisal | 13 years ago | Reply I really hope ET clears this one call me a cynic but India and Pakistan can never be friends, its a simple fact. Correct me if i am wrong but wasn't Pakistan created out of mistrust and hate between the two communities/countries...I laugh when people(mostly in Pakistan) say, "we wish India give Kashmir to Pakistan and then we will live like US and Canada"...are u serious?....if we can live like US and Canada then how the hell does it matter who has Kashmir...we are cursed with hatred and we will have to find the option of living with a lower degree of it. @Aun Seriously Pakistan needs anti India rant more than vice versa....India still has an exclusive identity(Hindu or Indic culture with secularism), what identity does Pakistan have?...."muslim culture"? there are more than 50 muslim countries in the world, a Balochistan or a Pakhtoonkhwa doesn't have to live with Pakistan to be a "MUSLIM COUNTRY"....India can live without hating Pakistan, the other way cannot happen...India doesn't need Pakistan as a "reason to allocate hefty budgets for your military.."....you can check the figures on the GDP percentage basis pakistan is already spending more than India...and let me tell u one more thing as muslim myself...Pakistan doesn't really give a damn abt muslims, China is one of the biggest oppressors of muslims in the world, you BFF

sheeda | 13 years ago | Reply @don you are just another misinformed indian. For your information, in Pakistan we get all indian channels and watch indian movies and dramas. How many Pakistani channels are allowed to be broadcast in India? . We are definitely better informed than you. It would help the indians if they stop obsessing over Pakistan. Every second headline on TOI and Indian Express is about Pakistan. You should learn to accept Pakistan first and than may be we can start a decent conversation.

Aun | 13 years ago | Reply @Truth: first of all, i would appreciate if you choose a more appropriate name for truth can never come from such a biased voice. Pakistanis have no issue with a "rising" india-at least pakistanis like me certainly don't loose their sleep over India's fiscal growth. So, it's a huge misconception in your mind that we Pakistanis have some sort of a complex with regards to India's progress. Actually, to be honest, I am really happy that we have an emerging super power in our neighborhood.So, please don't view Pakistanis with such a myopic view. It's amazing that an individual can speak on behalf of a billion people!You misunderstood the point i was trying to make.I was talking about Indians lamenting the events of partition. Of course, the hatred that you nurture in your hearts (now) will assure that your wish is granted. Let me make one last comment: I like a lot of Indians and I really hope that your country continues to develop the way it has. p.s. i might be traveling to India for world cup so please pardon me if I have misbehaved :) salam and peace

habib | 13 years ago | Reply india is just a problem creator.pulled the two country to brink of war twice ie in 2001 and 2008.But they dont have courage to fight .india pulled her forces to border areas in preparation of war with pakistan but we pakistanis know that this coward nation can not fight.They can just disturb peace of neighbouring countries.There is much more poverty in india as compared to pakistan.pakistan has very imporantant role to play ahead.had pakistan found good leader it woulld have been far ahead than indians in every field.mind you indians next time when you pull your forces to border than have fight.

KM | 13 years ago | Reply @CYNICS ... Unfortunately, to date India hasnt accepted Pakistan as a reality and therefore Kashmir, then East Pakistan, and now meddling in Baluchistan and FATA. India is a master mind of activities that eventually get exposed. The same WIKILEAKS even mentioned that the dossier on Mumbai Attacks produced is rediculous, and sooner or later it will be exposed just like how the train to pakistan incident got exposed. Kashmir on a platter??? I bet the day, when Indians are drunk enough to do so, and Indians know very well that Kashmir issue is resolved, then they have nothing to bully Pakistan with.

kamal | 13 years ago | Reply Syed..you are talking as if India will die without diplomatic relations with Pakistan...for GOD sake do it..

Syed A. Mateen | 13 years ago | Reply I do not understand as why Pakistan would like to have cordial relations with India when Pakistan can survive on the world map without having bilateral relations with India? India is a pain in the neck. Just today, it was revealed by Rahul Ghandi that Hindu Extremists are more dangerous than Muslims. So why Pakistan, time and again, is giving its hand to India and what for? Every body in the world knows that it was India which created Bangladesh on the world map. Just yesterday, people of Pakistan watched the real story of fall of Dacca on various TV Channels. The best course of action would be that Pakistan should broke all ties with India and ask its Ambassador to leave Pakistan in 24 hours, close down its Embassy from Islamabad once and for all. If Pakistan can live without Israel, we can also live with India. As regards to relatives of the people are concerned on both sides of line of border, I think that it is the third generation after the independence, and no body knows who is whose relative? If we will keep diplomatic relations and enhance ties with India, there is a possibility that a new Bangladesh may emergy on the world map, from the remaining Pakistan.

sharjeel khan | 13 years ago | Reply @Raju what about india??????? with what intentions indian government meets with dalai lama( rebel of china), sheikh mujeeb( rebel of pakistan), vellupalai parbhakaran(rebel of srilanka),,,,,, first see your own record then talk ab others

Truth | 13 years ago | Reply @Aun, YK Sinha is absolutely correct. Kashmir is a mere pretext, Pak can not live in peace when it sees India rising. Regards your united India lament, India is quite happy that Pak is separated. There is no one in India that wants Pak back.

SIMON ROMAERO | 13 years ago | Reply It is sad,that two developing countries with over 55 % population below the age of 24 years,spend so much on defense budget.Both countries should develop mutual trust and start relation of trust and development and commerce. look at relationship of Britain/USA with Japan/Germany post 2nd world war.

don | 13 years ago | Reply “Call me a cynic,” Sinha sighed, “but even if India were to lop off Kashmir and hand it on a platter to Pakistan, they would still find a reason to make trouble for us.” Absolute truth.Otherwise how will the pakistan army and leaders will hide the truth that people across the border share so much in common with them except religion.There has to be some issue which divides them permanently so as to justify the need for pakistan.

Aun | 13 years ago | Reply @ Anoop: If indians really accept pakistan as a separate state-instead of lamenting over the division of united India-things would be much better. The reactions to book on Jinnah,by Singh,clearly showed that ideology of Pakistan was unacceptable to rulers of India then and now. during my bachelors in Singapore, I became friends with an Indian exchange student from MIT...This is what he asked me one day while we were having a candid discussion over pak-india relations, "why did you guys separate? Imagine Sachin and shoaib playing in one team!" So, i think a lot of Indians still haven't accepted the fact that Pakistan is a sovereign state and they need to digest this. kashmir issue is not that simple. If you give Kashmir to Pak or even pull out your forces from there to give independence to kashmir, there are scores of other indian states which would start revolting against your government...and obviously you need a reason to allocate hefty budgets for your military.. Don't give us Kashmir. Just ask your government to pull out your forces, ask your army to stop raping Kashmiri women and stop killing innocent civilians..Trust me, things would improve immensely..If the injustice in Kashmir-which has been the root cause of terrorist activities in India-is halted, things might improve.. peace out

Anoop | 13 years ago | Reply @akhtar, Blame is shared by India too. But, India has not used non-State actors against any country. Pakistan and India have to understand the internal dynamics which prevent each other from acting on Kashmir to each other's satisfaction.

faraz | 13 years ago | Reply To justify huge military expenditure at the expense of health and education, the military establishment on both sides have created these imaginary threats that they face from each other. Keep milking the poor millions who are dying of disease and hunger!

akhtar | 13 years ago | Reply @ Anoop You mean all the trouble being created by Pakistan If so, than how?

Pakistani | 13 years ago | Reply Call me a cynic,” Sinha sighed, “but even if India were to lop off Kashmir and hand it on a platter to Pakistan, they would still find a reason to make trouble for us. the sentiments are well matched ... We do not need any deals or stupid cricket matches either until India starts getting its act together and stops intervening in Pakistan's affairs

Raju | 13 years ago | Reply This is true nothing else pak always think with army mind but not with political mind Pak prefer to talk with dissidant Indian leaders such as Gillani before going to talk with Indian counterparts

Anoop | 13 years ago | Reply “Call me a cynic,” Sinha sighed, “but even if India were to lop off Kashmir and hand it on a platter to Pakistan, they would still find a reason to make trouble for us.” --> True.

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