Army and country

Published: December 8, 2010
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The writer is a freelance print and broadcast journalist 
george.fulton@tribune.com.pk

The writer is a freelance print and broadcast journalist [email protected]

At first glance, the WikiLeaks revelations about the Pakistani army aren’t exactly, er, revelatory. So General Kayani and the intelligence agencies call the shots in Pakistan. Nothing new there, you may be thinking. Everyone knows that. Any foreigner arriving in Pakistan is soon pulled aside and told a couple of pithy lines about the army. One being that the three As run Pakistan — Allah, America and the Army. The other is that whilst most countries have an army, the Pakistani army has a country.

But reading the cables starkly in black and white, one is reminded how truly prevailing the army is to Pakistan’s society and long-term survival. The very institution that is supposedly designed to protect us is bringing Pakistan to its knees.

Let’s take parliamentary democracy. In theory we have one of those, with elected leaders to do our bidding, but WikiLeaks reminds us otherwise. Zardari wants to implement stiff sanctions on terrorist financing and close down terrorist training camps, but he can’t. Why? The unelected and unaccountable military and intelligence agencies won’t allow it. We are also told that Kayani planned to pressure President Zardari to resign and replace him with Asfandyar Wali Khan. Er, on whose authority? Sorry, old chum, but I thought that decision fell to the Pakistani people at the ballot box, not a man who wears spaghetti on his shoulders.

The cables also reveal the army’s support of the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba. Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t the faujis’ raison d’etre, it’s primary reason to exist, the first line in their handbook if you will, to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic? Or perhaps it’s to make cornflakes that taste of cardboard?

But the reason for the army’s support for the militants is of course our hatred of India. Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Afghan Taliban, despite their continuous killing of our own citizens, are apparently a vital part of our national security. Read that sentence again and it sounds like something from “Monty Python”. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes let’s threaten India by funding and supporting people who attack India and, er, ourselves. Good job.

In addition, the army’s paranoia and cold war thinking has stopped successive civilian governments from making any constructive attempts at long-term peace with India. An economic powerhouse that could bring thousands of jobs to Pakistan remains a foe, thanks to the faujis.

For too long the military/intelligence nexus has been immune to any sort of accountability or criticism. We can judge the judiciary, pillory the politicians and mock the media. But the army receives a free reign. The generals/admirals/air marshals — who can be as corrupt and venal as the political class — rarely receive similar press coverage, despite the fact that the army is the biggest private landowner in Pakistan. They run businesses, residential areas, schools and hospitals but somehow they largely avoid scrutiny. Funny that.

It was fascinating how the Pakistani press covered the WikiLeaks scandal. Much was made of how America still has huge influence in the running of Pakistan’s affairs. But the media ignored the larger uncomfortable truth. The reason we are a client state to the US is because the army is the largest mercenary force in the world. According to WikiLeaks, Kayani wanted to avoid the impression that the military is for ‘hire’. However, when only 40 per cent of military aid is accounted for and returned to military coffers and you request $26 million for barbed wire and a further $70 million for radars despite the fact that the militants have no airpower, it’s hard not to come to that conclusion.

It’s time we stopped fearing this institution and, instead, hold it to account. Only then can we go some way to reclaiming our country. Who knows, maybe one day Pakistan may have an army that serves the country, and not the other way round.

Published in The Express Tribune, December 8th, 2010.

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Reader Comments (121)

  • Dec 8, 2010 - 1:09AM

    At the risk of doing some serious damage to your fan base in your adopted home, please accept some wholehearted support for your line of thinking from across the border. I believe the crux of the problem is the army bigwigs are not concerned about what you so endearingly call ‘our country’ (Pakistan). They reserve their patriotism for articles to be written post retirement.Recommend

  • Dec 8, 2010 - 1:14AM

    A fellow traitor in the midst. Recommend

  • Talha
    Dec 8, 2010 - 1:54AM

    The army too needs to reevaluate it’s standing in our nation.

    Everything and everyone should be held accountable.Recommend

  • Shibil
    Dec 8, 2010 - 2:07AM

    A very important point, well made. Kudos on a courageous article. Apart from Pakistan’s three As, there is also the triple M that discourages honest criticism – the Military-Mullah Mafia. Whereas Allah will seek a reckoning on Judgement Day, and America is mostly inured to the constant global outpouring of criticism against it, the Triple M are quite happy for their sleuths and thugs to get their hands dirty in ensuring that they escape media scrutiny. Here’s hoping that more Pakistani speak their mind on this state of affairs.Recommend

  • Shireen Khan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 2:42AM

    Bravo, it is about time our army was brought down a peg or two, they have been the single largest hindrance to democracy and the nations progress. I admire your courage and wish you all the best, you are a true patriot.Recommend

  • Dec 8, 2010 - 3:36AM

    George:

    It’s time we stopped fearing this institution and, instead, hold it to account.

    a big haha

    as a first step toward accountability, try item/line by line discussion over the military budget allocation in the the elected assembly (even in camera) and see where it takes you!Recommend

  • vasan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 6:51AM

    An amazing account of Pakistani army and its true colours. No Indian writer could have put it more succulently than this piece. May your tribe increase. Would like to see authentic proof for any denials coming in this blogRecommend

  • vasan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 6:52AM

    The final line is the punch line in this article. Well saidRecommend

  • laiq
    Dec 8, 2010 - 8:00AM

    hats off.. u did a great job by writing down bitter truth…Recommend

  • Rab
    Dec 8, 2010 - 8:28AM

    George Fulton is right. Not until Pakistanis, in large numbers, reach the same conclusion will their country become a part of the civilized world. They do not even have to join India’s economy. 170M is a large enough market in its own right.Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Dec 8, 2010 - 9:58AM

    @ Author

    Beautifully written Sir, spot on. Hope you are well protected, congrats again.Recommend

  • M.Irshad Jan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:04AM

    Some truth, Some provocations.Recommend

  • Nasrat baloch
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:06AM

    This is the “George ka Pakistan”r you that George? If yes then you paid us back!!!!!!!!!!!Recommend

  • M.Irshad Jan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:10AM

    Ref Prasad & Vasan’s comments the Indian army is not far behind in shaping foreign policy of India, Kashmir, dialogue with Pakistan etc. There is need for sincerity on both sides of the border. Don’t accuse our army alone.Recommend

  • Waheed
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:12AM

    Dear George appreciate your concern for Pakistan, but i believe it would take you a teeny weeny little more time to understand what actually men in uniform are doing. Lets see picture is not as bleak as you believe it to be! everything is not cloak and dagger. Yes there are times when the line was crossed by “Agencies” but throwing everything on Army doesn’t make politicians the “Saints” nor the people “blame free”. I believe people who have been wronged are partly to be blamed for worshiping anyone with the “power” whip may it be army or a criminal in political setup.
    I sincerely believe that being Pakistani we should stop following the “Trend” of throwing EVERYTHING on one institution and be satisfied with it but “educate” ourselves of our rights and contributions towards society. Recommend

  • KK
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:12AM

    The Afghan Taliban were first recognized during Benazir’s tenure. The same govt that brought us democracy. The atom bomb, a dubious achievement, was her father’s brainchild. And lord knows how many other suicidal acts/policies were the offspring of democratic govts. Point is that neither democratic nor military govts have ever been held accountable in Pak. Our present situation is the result of misrule by both. Recommend

  • khan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:50AM

    George Fulton says: It’s time we stopped fearing this institution and, instead, hold it to account.

    I couldn’t agree but the reality of doing so can be rather toxic. Among the hundred of examples let me recall just one to illustrate my point.

    A few years ago while Musharraf and his boys were still vehemently denying that US Drones were targeting parts of NWFP, Hayatullah Khan Dawar, an intrepid journalist, found and photographed a fragment of a US Hellfire missile (fired from a Predator drone) that he had discovered near the bombed village of Haisori and distributed the photographic evidence of the Hellfire fragment to the western press. Four days later he was kidnapped by five masked gunmen. Six month later in June 2006 his body was found dumped near Mir Ali. He was handcuffed and had been shot in the back of the head.

    Hayatullah Khan’s family would let the matter rest and accused secret military agencies of the killing. These protests came to an end when Hayatullah’s widow was murdered by a bomb that was detonated outside her home. Reportedly, evidence indicated she had been the target of the attack. (All these details can be verified through Google)

    Hayatullah Khan was just one of dozens of journalists who have died in similar ‘mysterious’ circumstances. Then there are many others such as BBC’s Dilawar Khan Wazir, and more recently Umar Cheema who have been kidnapped , tortured and subsequently released.

    George it takes a brave man to take on our military masters and therefore all praise to you! Recommend

  • H
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:52AM

    FINALLY … someone has had to courage to write about this topic.

    Honestly you run through Shahra-e-Faisal, which is huge, and 90% of the land on the left and right is with the army, navy and the airforce, which is shocking. These people enjoy all the privilges imaginable, take over the country whenever they want, do what ever they want and no one has the b** to ask them why?

    Brilliant piece George !Recommend

  • Moazzam Salim
    Dec 8, 2010 - 12:11PM

    Under the Constitution of Pakistan and other laws the Army is a sacred cow, simply untouchable. Unless and untill that is changed none of the rogue generals are going to be caught and punished. After four martial laws and constant violation of various laws, the Army has now evolved into a serious contender for a permanent fixture in our system of governance. On one hand they manipulate power and dictate our futures and on the other they have amassed huge wealth through unlawful means. Army is not interested in doing its job like defending the borders all they are interested in their corporate incomes (fauji foundation etc.) and property dealings (DHA etc.). Their budget cannot be discussed in the National Assembly and a huge amount is spent for clandestine operations of ISI and other military intelligence agencies. The lack of any kind of check on these agencies has resulted in a strong partnership between organized crime syndicates and these agencies. There is no indication of any political will on part of any of the political parties to tackle these issues and hence at least for the near future the Army shall remain a sacred cow in Pakistan. Recommend

  • vasan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 12:12PM

    M Irshad Jan, We didnt accuse Pakistani army. The author did. We appreciated it. Please give one real reference of Indian army’s involvement in Politics or terrorism spawned in other countries. We will start flogging Indian army as well. We are not saying Indian army is holy cow. They are corrupt and they have been a reason for violence in Kashmir as well with their gung ho attitude with the guns. Whether they were provoked or not is a different matter. Still they are guilty.Recommend

  • faraz
    Dec 8, 2010 - 12:16PM

    Very well said. Army takes up 30 percent of the budget but look at our law and order situation. It created these extremist monsters which are destroying the country. Whats the difference between the performance of railways from that of the army? Recommend

  • Ali M
    Dec 8, 2010 - 12:17PM

    “Only then can we go some way to reclaiming our country. Who knows, maybe one day Pakistan may have an army that serves the country, and not the other way round.”

    Couldn’t agree more bro. Our Army can win medals in conquering its own land… the very institute which is supposed to defend our borders is running businesses here.
    Army has done so much damage we can’t even fathom… be it ethnic rifts or sectarian differences, you will find Army behind every organization which was erected and strengthened against some state institute.Recommend

  • Tanveer Khan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 12:30PM

    How could someone write anything on the bases of general statements of people they talk in daily life and Wikileaks, which itself reflects how developed countries do unethical and intervene in others business.

    Secondly, I very well know George, how he is loyal and love for this country. I will present his love and affection for the country. What kind of opinion he has for our country. Just to get famous by such articles.

    There is no doubt about that Army must play its professional and constitutional role. Each one of us know well already, nor you said new neither wikileaks cables. I do agree the Army’s role, But, we don’t buy you’re so-called loyalty to this country. Recommend

  • Rashid Aurakzai
    Dec 8, 2010 - 1:39PM

    George is getting to the bottom now. Keep Walking.Recommend

  • parvez
    Dec 8, 2010 - 1:50PM

    A topic that is always handled with kid gloves untill now.
    I hope those who matter in the armed forces read this and and give it due consideration and take it in the true sense it is written.
    How much longer will the 2% abuse the 98% of this poor country ?? Recommend

  • Ammar
    Dec 8, 2010 - 1:50PM

    @KK:
    Was it political government that collected mercenaries from around the world, trained them and provided them a freehand in the FATA region? Answer is no! This was done to defeat the soviet forces by none other than the then President cum COAS General (Deceased) Zia Ul Haq. To straight your record let me tell you that the Military and Intelligence Agencies (Classical Design of our all powerful Establishment since there are many players now added to this design including Bureaucracy and media persons) have never been under any political governments (past and present). They are government unto their selves. If it was suicidal (and it surely is) then there is a least contribution made by any political government.

    @ George Fulton:
    Brave write-up! Keep it coming.Recommend

  • Abaabeel
    Dec 8, 2010 - 2:38PM

    You should be the beacon for our media personnel. very courageous. I am your fan nowRecommend

  • Copper
    Dec 8, 2010 - 2:47PM

    A bold article indeed. But its a mafia you. Recommend

  • Talat
    Dec 8, 2010 - 2:54PM

    I don’t buy the claim that the Taliban have support of the army. The Wikileaks has not revealed any unequivocal statement of a US diplomat or any other responsible person to the effect that the Taliban enjoy support of Pakistan Army. American claims in the media about Pakistan Army’s support or the Taliban are perceived as a tactic on their part to induce the responsible men in the army to initiate more military actions.

    No sane person would deny the fact that many high rank military officials practice corruption and that the army unduly intervenes in political decision making, It is also true that Pakistan has used Taliban in the past to create problems in India. However, these well known facts do not justify the claim that the army has no regard for the lives of the people it is meant to protect.Recommend

  • khan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 3:14PM

    In my earlier comment in the 2nd para I wrote:
    I couldn’t agree but the reality
    It should read:
    I couldn’t agree more but the realityRecommend

  • Shemrez Nauman Afzal
    Dec 8, 2010 - 3:45PM

    Ghaddaari aik bemaari hai. Treachery is a disease.
    Nicely written, but in the ultimate analysis, these are just words on a piece of paper (or on a computer screen, if that makes any difference).Recommend

  • maera
    Dec 8, 2010 - 3:45PM

    wow.. its amazing to see how our Indian friends are jumping with joy one on the criticism of Pak Army . Thanks George for making Indians smile. But seriously dont our guests have anything else to do besides reading news on ET and commenting on it.. Is Times of India that boring :):):):)Recommend

  • Rehan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 4:12PM

    @maera

    Yeah, we dont get enough from Times of India, reason we start news hopping all the news around the world, pakistan just being one stop! :)Recommend

  • Tahir
    Dec 8, 2010 - 4:22PM

    @Tanveer Khan, grow up brother and come out of the coco land. Wikileaks has shown us with proofs how our politicians and Army think and talk. Most of us who are living in the real world already know this.
    Good article, George. If I may exaggerate a bit, I think most of us do think what you have written.Recommend

  • Saif
    Dec 8, 2010 - 4:23PM

    That was nothing but ‘Bold & True’. As George mentioned, let the democracy develop!!Even after the Wiki Leaks showdown, the News Channels & their Anchors still trying their best to make it look like ‘politicians are the worst enemy’. For e.g, yesterday one Channel showing public views on Wiki Leaks, where 90% of the people mentioned, ‘With the leaks now its proved that our Politicians are nothing but corrupt”. Come on guys, in fact Wiki Leaks clearly reveals that it’s nobody else but the ‘Old-Guard’ of our nation that is going unaudited ever since & always starving for power.Finally a message to our so-called TV anchors/News Channels, start educating the people by telling them the truth & stop bullying democracy & please show some character.
    Well done George, hope they learn from you!!!! Recommend

  • Shazia
    Dec 8, 2010 - 4:29PM

    George, I hope you know that visas are routed through the intelligence agencies, and if I were you, I’d be seriously worried about my status to remain in this country after writing this! That said, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Ever noticed how any stories of corruption or human rights abuse pertaining to army personnel die a quick death? Stories about politicians on the other hand snowball like there’s no tomorrow. I think it’s only by supporting the civilian government, as in its right to complete its term, even while holding it to account on its shortcomings, can we ensure the democracy takes root in Pakistan. Democracy is a process, and this process has been sabotaged by our myopic and self-serving military time and again. As the WikiLeaks prove, our men in khaki still believe they can trample on our votes. It’s time to say “Enough is enough.”Recommend

  • Mulla Toofhan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 5:30PM

    Countries own Armies ” Pakistan Army owns a country”.Recommend

  • Tanya Bromley
    Dec 8, 2010 - 5:57PM

    George, brilliant, courageous, cryptic, profound, and right on the money… keep it upRecommend

  • Ayesha Bashir
    Dec 8, 2010 - 6:09PM

    I would like to say well said but I am afraid that I cant. Where some are saying that you have hit the nail on the head, I say that you actually pulled the nail out and cast it aside. Yes Pakistan’s Army has it own agenda, and yes Pakistan has gone through military dictatorship time and again but for a country that is a puppet in the hands of others has little say as to who governs and who does not.
    As for Wikileaks, its all propaganda. I am not a politician neither am I a journalist… I am the common Pakistani you so frequently talk about in your articles and columns and I am telling you that I think jack about what the Saudi Prince is saying about Zardari or what are America’s fears about “Pakistani” terrorists. These terrorist are Americas babies, their dreams turned to their worst nightmares. An average Pakistani is only worried about the flour, sugar and the bills. They just want to make ends meet. I am sure in your next article you will want to blame the military for the price hikes and taxes. You do that because you get paid to do that. you have to criticize something and someone. Nice thing dont sell only criticism sells.
    I am a die hard fan of Pakistan Army. They have time and again protected us against Indian aggression. They have stood between us and the terrorists and taken the bullet. They have paid the price of fighting a war that was the produce of the west primarily USA. One Gen Kiyani or Musharraf will not change that fact. Recommend

  • Arifq
    Dec 8, 2010 - 6:13PM

    Dear George
    Brilliant article, please keep writing and take care.Recommend

  • Ivan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 6:30PM

    Whne I read this I was hoping you were already out of the country but then I realised you had written an article a few weeks earlier where you mentioned the army / govt isn’t bothered with the english press but rather the urdu press which has the most followers…..perhaps this article needs to be published there……the English reading public can hardly make a difference!!Recommend

  • Mustafa Pasha
    Dec 8, 2010 - 7:10PM

    This was the most boring article ive read in a while. It added nothing whatsoever to my understanding or knowledge of my country’s politics. Neither did it as the article attempts to claim “But reading the cables starkly in black and white, one is reminded how truly prevailing the army is to Pakistan’s society and long-term survival.” remind me (lest i had forgotten!) that the army was really in charge. The only reason people are reading this article is cause its written by a white man who claims to be one of us. Serious waste of my time.

    Recommend

  • Dec 8, 2010 - 7:52PM

    Pakistan Army is a professional army and spends lot of time on training.The courses at Command and Staff College and at National Defence University besides professional subjects have subjects like Pakistan Economy and foreign Policy.Political Economy. The graduates who ultimately become generals have enough knowledge about the country and what the Good Governance should be. When there is complete chaos and the politicians make a complete mess in ruling the country, they have to intervene either by taking over or asking for the dissloution of assemblies. As regards supporting the extremists or the so called taliban, it is totally wrong. The attack in Mumbai was totally planned and executed by Raw and Mossad. Ajmal Kasab was a planted man by RAW.There are innumerable Pakistanis rotting in Indian jails who can be forced to behave/act as the RAW wants. The attack on the Indian parliament on 13 Dec,2002 is one example of RAW drama where the so called terrorists were seen completely dazed knowing nothing of the area and getting shot up by the security people.The video making was also done in most awkward way.Recommend

  • SalmanZ
    Dec 8, 2010 - 8:12PM

    Salute to George! Excellent Article!Recommend

  • Farah Khan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 8:22PM

    George, you are now eligible for a free hair cut, clean shave and ….
    The 3Ms is Mullah Military and Media. Media is silent on khakis and their brigades in their meetings with US viceroy. Long live the “free” media which has filters………………and cannot touch some topics…………..Farah KhanRecommend

  • Amna
    Dec 8, 2010 - 9:01PM

    I agree with Talha every institution needs to be held accountable and this will be a long process. It is not just the army though…the elected governments are extremely corrupt. How can someone corrupt try to oppose another corrupt person or hold them accountable.
    The whole Pakistani political system and bureaucracy needs to be cleaned out and revamped.

    @vasan: and who the heck to do you think you are? what makes you think anyone is answerable to you and needs to give you any “authentic proof” for any denials in this blog. Please leave this Pakistani site and start s**t somewhere else thank you. This article is not even about India… so what is your excuse for being overly obssessed with this particular Pakistani issue? And no- its not your security…Recommend

  • Mulla Toofhan
    Dec 8, 2010 - 9:12PM

    @ Mohammad Azhar. Pakistan Army is certainly professional up to a certain rank, As the rank increases it becomes “Cash in” time for these “The Professional” Please don’t forget 1971 separation of the then East Pakistan at the hands of Indian Army, Watching Gen Niazi embracing Gen Aurora wasn’t professional. Don’t forget It was a civilian Govt. who bought the 92,000 POW home safelyRecommend

  • Danish
    Dec 8, 2010 - 10:08PM

    @Writer, All Indians & Anti-Army Pakistanis

    Keep on crying, you crying babies…..

    Pakistan Army Zindabad!!!Recommend

  • Dec 8, 2010 - 10:43PM

    Only if we can stand behind the civilian government, come out of our nutshell and say it openly and loudly, that put some limits on this army. If it is Pak Army and it is my army it has to accept my governmnet that I elected. WE have had enough of their ideas being tried on this nation. I hope they realize it and the time before they lose the country, I hope that never happen.Recommend

  • Anoop
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:05PM

    “Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yes let’s threaten India by funding and supporting people who attack India and, er, ourselves. Good job.”

    lol..

    The Army is responsible for most of Pakistan’s woes. But, the weird thing is it is the institution that a “Patriot Pakistani” supports and defends to his death. Recommend

  • Zubair torwali
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:38PM

    WikiLeaks, wikiLeaks!
    The WikiLeaks has given us an opportunity to tame the wild horse clad khaki. Some sections of the media have already begun to turn their guns against someone else who are no more than mere puppet.

    I urge the Pakistan mainstream media and itellectuals to build pressure on the Dark Lords so that we may be able to hold them accounatble.

    Gearge, great and courage.Recommend

  • AJ
    Dec 8, 2010 - 11:51PM
  • samar
    Dec 9, 2010 - 12:54AM

    @Ayesha Bashir: do you know that army take more than 30% of government budget? that another 30% of budget is taken for debt servicing, the majority of that debt is for military expense or taken during time of army dictators? while our country is drowning in flood and needs development, in september army budget was increased by more than $1 billion while development expense was cut by more than 50%? why? so yes you are right that i blame army for high prices and tax hike. all this budget grabbed by army means less and less government money for price control on food and it means higher tax for the common man. if you you really care about the common man and truly believe that food price and paying bills is what common pakistani cares about, and then let us invest money in those areas. how are these problems being solved by letting army take over the budget and that also without any accountability? Recommend

  • Khan
    Dec 9, 2010 - 1:48AM

    Good work. Sometimes its hard to swallow the truth. Pakistan has never seen a fair and a loyal democratic or military government in the past six decades. People comes, take whatever they can in their capacity from the country, and leave the entire burden on the local people. Few days ago, one my friends asked me, “Name one of the richest countries in the world”, and I, unexpectedly, answered, Pakistan as its been robbed every day and still it exists as a country – a big achievement for Pakistan itselfRecommend

  • Anonymous
    Dec 9, 2010 - 4:24AM

    i did not even complete reding this article. i hope you know the very reson Pakistan still exists is becuse of its army. we wouldn’t be here without it. and you are supporting democracy? what democracy? a president who no doubt is a criminal, whose party is a monarchy in itself being passed down on wills. and if you dont wikileaks also shed light on teh fact that zardari asked his son to make his sister the president in case of his death? electable? and when you talk about its up to the ballot boxes and the people, the masses vote for necessities that being food, water nd shelter. which is always promised to them but never given. and before you go on defaming the army, the army did a hell of alot better job than in disaster relief than our “Elected Democratic Government” save your @$%% for some else. democracy is a sham. who said we even needed it? we were better of in the mush era.Recommend

  • Mujahid Ali
    Dec 9, 2010 - 4:35AM

    Dear George,
    I Congrarulate you for a brave and brilliant write up. Words are never sufficient to give you just appreciation. The subject is not new anyway, Ayaz Amir has been critical on this matter and Aisha Siddiqa has done her job well too. The fact that the our army remains clear and pious cow has done a lot of damage. some people believe, that politicians were/are responsible to for allowing army get stronger enough to controlled to behave as defender. If it is true, then shouldn’t we go to the past to know who should have done this job? Bhutto? well he couldn’t! go little more in past, and you see no politician!!!!!!! until, you see two men who were capable to lay the foundation of institutions in a way that country is makes progress and no institution crosses the boundaries…. I am talking about Quaid e Azam and Liaquat Ali Khan… Have we ever try to research what they did to safeguard our nation from it’s internal dangers like religious extremism, ethnic harmony (more appropriately national harmony), uncontrolled police and power hungry military? Ofcourse, they made the dream come true and they were in good position (symbolically and politically) to make the 1st constitution of Pakistan. Quaid e Azam dies unattended and Liaqat Ali Khan preferred to spend 2 months visiting America then bothering to draft something for his nation….Though, people hardly fear army today as much as they feared in 1970s and 80s but they still get killed after writing an article or two in media or openly criticizing army. Masses should be educated and information should be available to people. How free political govts are in Pakistan, everyone knows. The all powerful Bhutto and heavy-mandate Nawaz Sharif could not sustain their govts to the tenure that people gave them. can you imagine how Nawaz Sharif would have felt (embarrassed) when Wajpai said him (on telephone), ” Mian Sb! Hum ny aap ki taraf dosti ka hath barhaya ar apny humari peth me shurra ghonp dia” (We extended our hand of friendship to you and you attacked us in back with a knife?). This was his reaction on Kargil attack, which Mian Sb had no foggiest idea about it!!!!!!
    How insulted a prime minister would have felt? when prime minister of India told him that your army has attacked our troops in Kargil….
    All law enforcement agencies and army and police should be held accountable and regulated for their past and present expeditions. Isn’t it ridiculous that you first create danger (of taliban) and then defend the country. All soldiers who are fighting with talibans are innocent victims and martyrs but why they have die? Do they really know/understand…….? It’s like a medicine co spreads congenial virus and then distributes vaccines against it on cheaper prices. The world’s best and cheapest professional army on rent has never developed Pakistan. It has always rolled-back the minute progress made by semi-democracy govts. It has continually derailed our country and politicians or masses are simply the audience. Support of Mullahs has legitimized the menace that dictatorship brings with itself. We lost Bangladesh, we suffered/suffering the religious intolerance and many maladies due to Zia’s version of state-patronized Islam for 30 years and we are facing suicide attacks due to Musharraf’s war on terror. up to how long the Pak land of Pakistan (Pak+ istan) will remain polluted with the blood of its own habitants, no one knows. The largest owner of land has always been in power and generates big revenues from her DHA, fouji foundation, Ensign Communique, engr and construction enterprises and poor people are destined to fight each other for Roti and selling their children in markests… This should change and I believe, it will change. Army can’t kill the whole nation with bullets. They don’t have 170 million (- 600000) bullets.Recommend

  • Pakistani
    Dec 9, 2010 - 4:47AM

    Rule number one of surviving in Pakland “he who has the stick takes the cow”Recommend

  • Maryam
    Dec 9, 2010 - 9:06AM

    well written…..such a courageous article, keep up the good workRecommend

  • MBaig
    Dec 9, 2010 - 10:04AM

    Pakistan Army “believes” in two fundamental duties – every moving object should be given a salute and every static object should be painted (in) white, Now the question is…who is going to bell the “cat”?

    Majority in Pakistan still thinks that (PAK) Army is very ‘pak’ and they are just a organised group of ‘brave’ men who are always ready to protect the country…yeah right! It seems difficult to change the mind-set of Pakistani ordinary people. Army has come up with such a “strategy” to get away with all the crimes it commits at different fronts. Recommend

  • Kittu
    Dec 9, 2010 - 11:10AM

    @Amna

    What is your problem..? If the site doesn’t want Indians to comment let them advertize it..Or they can simply mute their comments. None of us are hiding the fact that we are Indian. And why Indians are on a Pakistani site…?.There are several reasons..Out of them..70% of terrorist activities in India originate from pakistan or atleast driven by extremist ideology originated from Pakistan. So curiosity is obvious to see what an average educated Pakistani thinks. If you want to live in your well ..So be it. Don’t visit this site.Recommend

  • shy
    Dec 9, 2010 - 11:54AM

    well writtenRecommend

  • M.Irshad Jan
    Dec 9, 2010 - 11:58AM

    Vasan. It’s on record that your Army COS put his foot down on reduction of the number of forces in Kashmir as planned by the civilian govt. Your army is against resumption of dialogue with Pakistan which is the ONLY way to progress in the subcontinent.Recommend

  • Qadir El Eproos
    Dec 9, 2010 - 12:25PM

    **”It’s time we stopped fearing this institution and, instead, hold it to account”. George very well written piece,but remember Umer Cheema?

    @Nadir.Please do not equate yourself with George.He is a clear headed,well read and intelligent journalist,while your blogs and comments are based on lack of knowledge,here say,having very little substance and mostly directed against persons..Recommend

  • Anoop
    Dec 9, 2010 - 12:56PM

    @M.Irshad Jan,

    Two people cannot talk if one guy has a gun to the other guys head(Terrorism). Remove the gun and we can talk.Recommend

  • Ammar
    Dec 9, 2010 - 2:29PM

    I truely love Pakistan- the Nation and I personally think army is great and determined but unfortunately the leaders that Pakistan has been getting are not leading the country properly and the army is just following their commands. Recommend

  • harkol
    Dec 9, 2010 - 4:46PM

    Bravo Sir!

    Pakistan Army is one institution that has consistently deterred peace and resolution of disputes in our region, to ensure its own survival. If Pakistan people wish to be a truly modern nation, they’d have to have civilian supremacy. That will make it possible for other nations to negotiate with civilian leaders to resolve disputes, without fear of Super-Bosses like Musharraf or ISI sabotaging it.Recommend

  • harkol
    Dec 9, 2010 - 4:53PM

    Anonymous:

    very reson Pakistan still exists is becuse of its army.

    This is complete misreading of the reality! Pak army lost half the nation in 1972. It is only its propaganda that it kept the country together.

    Pakistan Army is the defender of Punjabi-Islamic identity of Pakistan, and doesn’t allow the Pakistan to find a true modern state based on shared economic & well being of its people. Recommend

  • harkol
    Dec 9, 2010 - 5:07PM

    Irshad Jan:

    Indian army is not far behind in shaping foreign policy of India

    Indian army gives its feedback on security matters, which may help civil leaders in shaping foreign policy. But, that’s how all nations work.

    The difference in Pakistan is – Army dictates the policy, and Civilian leadership work as stenographers. Any one who challenges the army (like Sharief did), is thrown out of the country or hanged.Recommend

  • Mulla Toofhan
    Dec 9, 2010 - 5:17PM

    It seems that ET has restriction on printing letters criticle of the Armed Forces. The letter by Muhammad Azhar seems to be a Text from their PR dept Painting the Armed Forces in a Shining Amour. I agree that the Army is professional but to a certain Level. If you see the history of Ruling Gen. of Pakistan it has been disastrous Yaheya Khan, Zia-ul-haq Musharraf. Their action have taken us further back not forward yet it is a NO to point it out. George you couldn’t have said it better.Recommend

  • sophia
    Dec 9, 2010 - 5:47PM

    Pakistan army creates existential crisis in Pakistan so to provide a justification for spending billions on arms and supporting its army of freeloaders when millions go hungary.Recommend

  • J.Oberoi
    Dec 9, 2010 - 6:39PM

    My question is – where does the Pakistani Army go if (heaven forbid) India and Pakistan settle the Kashmir issue? The Pakistani army will never allow that to happen. After tasting so much power for so many years, they are not about to let it go. Right now, they are the rulers of a nation that does not question what they do. Peace with India will be like shooting themselves in the foot. Won’t happen.Recommend

  • Mulla Toofhan
    Dec 9, 2010 - 7:45PM

    @ kittu

    I am with you on this one, you have absolute right to read and access as you wishRecommend

  • Amna
    Dec 9, 2010 - 8:17PM

    @Kittu: Whatever. I do not even know why I am bothering to reply to you, but if you had read my comment clearly, or read/knew my views, you would have know that I do not have a problem with you being on this site. But if al lyou can do is be negative and anti-Pakistani, then you probably should not be on a Pakistani site…and no stop acting like you visit this site because of terrorist attacks. We all know you visit it because of rivalrly with/hatred for Pakistan.

    I am assuming you Indians attend Indo-Pak Cricket matches in huge amounts and verbally abuse Pakistani cricketers and throw things at them, all because you are afraid of terrorism as well?? Just accept that you hate Pakistan….too bad India hasnt been able to destroy Pakistan completely even though if you were really the “super power” and the strong country that you think you are, I am sure you wouldnt have let a chance go. Pakistan with all its flaws, is still a country you people can not stand (and not just because of “terrorism”) and that itself tells us there is still hope for a bright future for Pakistan. Pakistan Zindabad.Recommend

  • Talha
    Dec 9, 2010 - 9:08PM

    The army of Pakistan can be the institution that seals Pakistan’s future as a progressive, admired and developed nation.

    It has to create the Pakistan Jinnah envisioned and in this process give up its economic interests in this country. The evolution from an owner to that of a protector can be so succesful and seal the worlds respect for the Pakistani army.

    The army itself has a long history which pre-dates the creation of Pakistan. It can attain a status of one of the best and most refined fighting forces in the world.

    To correct the course of our nation and bet on a shining future, the army knows what it has to do.Recommend

  • Cautious
    Dec 9, 2010 - 9:37PM

    To make matters worse – while the army is large it is also very expensive and arguably not very good. If I read Wikipedia correctly Pakistan has never won a war and in some conflicts the army’s performance was pathetic – in most countries they would have fired all the Generals.Recommend

  • danish
    Dec 9, 2010 - 10:34PM

    @Talha Pakistan army is allied to the mullahs and the feudals – in short to all the most regressive forces in Pakistan. How can it make Pakistan into a progressive country? the army’s long history has been one of serving foreign masters and its own interests, from the British Raj to the Americans. It has also acted as a mercenary force for Arab governments like Saudi Arabia and even Jordan where in 1970 the Pakistan army massacred thousands of Palestinians on the orders of the Jordanian monarchy. To correct the course of our nation and bet on a shining future, the army does NOT know what it has to do, which is to stop playing politics and stop eating up the nation’s wealth. Recommend

  • R S JOHAR
    Dec 9, 2010 - 11:48PM

    Hi Sir George, brilliant article. You have written truth and nothing but the TRUTH. I salute you for the same and congratulate you for taking up the root cause which like a cancer has been plaguing Pakistan for a long time and end game does not appear to be far away. Army in any country is a sacred institution which is primarily meant for safeguarding its territory and assisting elected civil govt as dictated by head of state in internal security and natural disasters etc. As an Indian, I can state truthfully state that Indian Army is following this doctorine and does not interfere in any political or adminstrative matters and takes orders from the democrated elected govt. No wonder Indian Army is one of the best professional army of the world and has an impeccable record at home and even abroad and most sought after by United Nations as peace keeping force.
    Unfortunately, Pakistan Army Generals are only interested in ruling the country by hook or crook and ruled YOUR country for more than 30 years. Results are there for all to see and the country is almost on the brink but as mentioned by your goodself Army continues to remain India centric to serve their self interest ie filling their pockets.

    Under above circumstances, how will the country survive and with its failing economy, mis-governance and dubious role of its own Army dooms day is not far away.Recommend

  • Kamran Bangash
    Dec 10, 2010 - 1:15AM

    Hope the people of Pakistan wake up and realize the truth. George, it true that our Army has a country. They have ruled this country directly and indirectly. And every time they have made Pakistan weaker and weaker.

    I congratulate you for your courageous article.Recommend

  • Kittu
    Dec 10, 2010 - 5:43AM

    @Amna..

    Ask your self the same question, Why do you hate India…? Why do terrorist activities in India originate in Pakistan..?

    About cricket..If you are right. Inzamam, Razzaq and Yousuf and will not be able to play ICL. Afridi , Akthar wouldn’t be able to play IPL.

    More over ..India is not a Super Power. Its far from being a super power. So don’t worry about Pakistan being destroyed by India. It is elements inside Pakistan that destroyed Pakistan. Indian politicians even though Corrupt, Are wise enough to understand destruction will happen on both sides of the border.Recommend

  • Faiz
    Dec 10, 2010 - 5:44AM

    Shibil, here you missed the point: it is not Military-Mullah-Mafia, it is Military-Mullah-Media that discourages criticism.Recommend

  • Akash
    Dec 10, 2010 - 7:42AM

    I have been following pakistani media after mumbai attack… just to understand what happens on other side of border.. why so much hate… and I must say it is for the first time(atleast for me) that i have seen pak army being criticised. Brave work.
    To the people who think 9/11 was done by CIA and RAW and MOSSAD did mumbai.. when history will be written you guys will be classified as most ignorant of the lot who inhabited earth.. :-). may God give some wisdom…
    And to all who hate indians coming here.. what can I say.. i am sure our paki freinds do visit indian sites..it is the age of internet anyone can read anything and particiapte in the discussion… you guys do it.. Indians do it… everyone does it… its all open.. we are not in 1970s. get used to criticism and praise from everywhere. thats the nature of the beast.Recommend

  • Aftab Kenneth Wilson
    Dec 10, 2010 - 8:22AM

    You have clean bowled the mindsets of those who are not prepared to take any type of advise from any wise person. George you have said what no one can dare say but only murmur. It is a blasphemous act to speak against “Two Holy Cows, Army & Judiciary”. In fact there is an enemy “Within Us” which keeps us busy in pointing fingers at others. The abnormal behavior which we witness between the state pillars can bring us all on our knees. Priorities are not given priority. All are driving their vehicles with a license written “issued by Me”. We have in fact become totally corrupt and twisted from all angles. It really hurts when we hear “Country for the Army and not Army for the Country”.Recommend

  • omar
    Dec 10, 2010 - 8:27AM

    Great write up! May Allah increase your tribe..Recommend

  • Ammar
    Dec 10, 2010 - 9:08AM

    @Ammar
    19 hours ago:

    These are not my coments :)Recommend

  • sanjithmenon
    Dec 10, 2010 - 10:39AM

    Dear amna,
    “Pakistan with all its flaws, is still a country you people can not stand (and not just because of “terrorism”) and that itself tells us there is still hope for a bright future for Pakistan. Pakistan Zindabad.”

    this sort of answer coming from an educated Pakistani? A case of very low self esteem.Recommend

  • Adi
    Dec 10, 2010 - 11:56AM

    the most disspointing article written by you george…of course the people like you who can be air lifted by the “UK Authorities” in case of any emergency in Pakistan but please dont try to impose the west minister styled democracy in pakistan…you have seen the transformation of pakistan from the “democractic dictatorship” to “dictatorial democracy”, you can yourself analyse why pakistan needs a strong army to keep a check on these (mostly) crooks sitting in the parliment…naturally your article was supposed to get a lot of following from the so called democracy supporters in pakistan but my suggestion is for you to visit any large public sector institution and listen to the stories of the mess these democrats are causing and had caused…please remove your british eye glasses and adapt to the reality of pakistanRecommend

  • Adi
    Dec 10, 2010 - 11:58AM

    George any article next time of those sihapis and khasa daar who die everyday fighting the terrorists you believe are backed by army itself…what rubbish opinion from george!Recommend

  • Waqas
    Dec 10, 2010 - 12:56PM

    My question is to the Indian hate-mongerers and Pakistan bashers commenting here:
    Without Pakistan army, where does India go?

    As the ‘perceived’ threat of Pakistan Army and the ‘evil’ ISI will no longer be there, it will be tough ask to keep the divided India as one. In my view even your districts will be divided into countries. So before you start fantasizing about Pakistan sans military. Remember sans Pakistan there will be no India. Recommend

  • R S JOHAR
    Dec 10, 2010 - 1:05PM

    An excellent article by all standards. The author has stated some hard facts which are known to all but rarely put in black and white. Nevertheless there is an urgent need for all rationale minded people and politicians including free press in Pakistan to delibrate on this sensitive issue and I congratulate ET for raking up this important issue. Pakistan army is a professional army and is rated high amongst the major armies of the world. The primary task of any army is to safe-guard its territory and give assistance as on required basis to the democrated elected govt in matters of internal security and events of natural disasters. Pak army is precisely doing these above mentioned tasks but unfortunately also meddeling in foreign affairs and adminstration.
    The most unfortunate part is that the Army considers some of the militant organisations as their strategic assets visa-vis India and Afghanistan, a policy which has backfired and whole of Pakistan is now suffering from this doctorine which was adopted by late Ziaul-Haq more than two decades back. Pakistan can only prosper like India if it focuses on its economy and leave this self-destrutive policy which is not only harming Pakistan image throughout the world but also breeding violence, hatred resulting in deaths of innocent civilians and more importantly resulting in economic collapse of the country. As such any terrorists organisation is nobody’s friend and they always follow their own agenda and in case of Pakistan they want to rule the country by imposing Sharia. Under such circumstaces its the prime duty of the army to take punitive action against militant organisations and show zero tolerance to terrorism so that peace and prosperity returns to Pakistan.
    Friendship and co-operation between India and Pakistan is the key to peace and prosperity in the whole region which can only happen if there is no undue interference by Pak Army who is India centric but presenly the real threat is from the terrorists organisations and not from India who is more focused on its economy and war with Pakistan would be the last thing on its agenda. I sincerely hope that Gen KAYANI who is considered as a balanced personality by the West revisits this lethal doctorine adopted by the late General which has already backfired and as widely predicted by most of the political and defence analysts spelling doom in the long run for Pakistan. Recommend

  • vasan
    Dec 10, 2010 - 2:30PM

    Waqas, With or without Pakistan and its army, India is going places man. You can look at any economic statistics, Yes we do have poor people, we do have naxalites problem But we do not have any tendency to tear India apart. We are united as one country and we will be, I am from south India which had lots of hate for north india a few decades ago. But things have changed for the better now. With great mobility, Indians of all states are working and living in all other states.The only thing we want Pakistan is to focus on its economy and stop troubling neighbours with a gun. We wish Pakistan a stable govt and economy and an army under civil govt. Together , I am sure , the problems of poverty etc can be reduced over a period of time. Good luck, God bless uRecommend

  • Shumail Shah
    Dec 10, 2010 - 3:16PM

    Good Going Georgie Boy, The fact is that we can’t do anything about it, even if these plunderers stand naked in-front of us. You sure have exposed them clearly, But maybe someday, and that someday is not a day of the week, when people like you keep on exposing these criminal, and these naked aggressors & plunderers will be stoned to death by the poor people of Pakistan in order to gain their freedom. So keep going cause we are coming along.Recommend

  • Mulla Toofhan
    Dec 10, 2010 - 4:29PM

    Well. I would not blame the entire establishment being corrupt and Power hungry but few in certain ranks of the Armed Forces.
    The Army does have outstanding Jawans and officers who undoubtedly are patriots and professionals
    Personally I have high regards for Kayani and think he sincerely wants and is trying to help Pakistan out of the current corrupt setup. The NLC investigation and its findings by the Army will speak a lot about the establishment I am sure there are lots of good people in the Armed forces.
    They definitely have to work on their Image, tarnished by the previous army Generals.Recommend

  • Talha
    Dec 10, 2010 - 4:30PM

    @ danish

    That is what I meant when I wrote that the Army knows what it has to do.

    It has to give up interference in the politics, give up its economic interests in the country, distance itself from the Mullahs and Feudals.

    It should entirely be a security force which provides security to Pakistan from external (Gulf States) and internal (Mullahs) threats. Not takw orders from them and work on their whims.

    The Military-Mullah nexus has left Pakistan in an absolute pathetic state. One which is exploited by foreign countries and one that was created by the Arab nations.Recommend

  • Amna
    Dec 10, 2010 - 5:07PM

    @Kittu: It is the same crap in defense of anything for you guys..,its always about the mumbai attacks (even though you hated us from long before that). But yet you haven’t shown any proper evidence or anything that except for telling us your investigation shows this. How about you do that first, and then we can answer that. When the mumbai attacks happened, our media did not find Ajmal Kasab’s origin to be in the Pakistani village India claimed he was from.Recommend

  • Salman
    Dec 10, 2010 - 6:54PM

    @waqar Without Pakistan army, where does India go?

    u r absolutely right. If it was not for the misadventures of our army, India would not have become so strong. with incidents like kargil, their army had convinced their government to invest in the military. They are upgrading their military and no one is questioning them becos of us (and china). And our army’s plan was to bleed them using our strategic assets. Instead they have become very strong economically and we bankrupt….Recommend

  • Dec 10, 2010 - 7:23PM

    Army is doing right job for Pakistan.We proud on our Army we need to support it and gave courage also to fight war against bitter enemy India and Indian so called Taliban we know they are agents of Raw now India is nacked for everyone’s eye.The ground situation of Pakistan is like some that the role of army is very important we are small country we had lots of threats we want also to safe our resources from enemy so why we ignore his role?Recommend

  • Muhammad Arsalan Butt
    Dec 10, 2010 - 7:43PM

    Rightly said! Its time for the Generals to be included in the process of accountability…No one should be above law n its time to set examples. Unfortunately our corrupt Army officials have long been exploiting our emotions and our patriotism for their own good. A bunch of least qualified individuals with the authority to take decisions and decide our fate!Recommend

  • Dec 10, 2010 - 10:55PM

    Boys,

    Your feudal masters, wikileaks ain’t a patch on our scandals and criminal politicians. Yes, the army doesn’t act on it’s own yet but it is no more a holy cow. It’s making up for being ill-fed, ill-equipped, ill-paid with it’s own scams. Have a look at the indian newspapers. Recommend

  • Arijit Sharma
    Dec 10, 2010 - 11:09PM

    @Waqas: “So before you start fantasizing about Pakistan sans military. Remember sans Pakistan there will be no India …… ”

    Does it not occur to you that the vast majority of the Indians are of the Vedic culture – which along with strong state institutions, multiple languages, shared spiritual, economic and political goals is the glue that keeps us together ? Where does Pakistan or Pakistan Army figure in all this ? We do not need a threat to keep us together.

    I know exactly why you think along these lines – it is because in your heart you know that the Punjabis – Pashtuns – Sindhis – Muhajirs of Pakistan are together only because of the India/Hindu threat.Recommend

  • Kittu
    Dec 10, 2010 - 11:44PM

    @Amna

    There you go. You answered your own questions. Why would any body hate pakistan.? I am sure you might have heard the term..’What you sow is what you Reap’. And I don’t hate Pakistan. We hate institutions in Pakistan that promote terror and Just blindly deny their deeds.Recommend

  • sheraz
    Dec 11, 2010 - 3:27AM

    @ amna; well i must appreciate ur support towards pakistan army but i think dont take these indians that seriously.
    they have developed a fobia of pakistan army. its really indiegstable for these indians to think that a country almost four times smaller with an army almost three times smaller than them is a tough challenge for them. all the times they have brain waves coming like cold start strategy or certain other formulae. but they cant help it out.
    india has started thinking itself as a regional giat. well i m amazed at this, howcome a country can call itsself a regional giant when more than 70% of its popullation falls below the poverty line(amazing).
    i m not worried about the indian’s comments but being pakistani i request to all my brother and sister that u all are really true in saying that lets hold all the institute accountable including but my humble request to u all pakistanis is that lets do it in a diginified way. let our enemy(india) not teach us how to solve our problem bcz it is a very internal problem of our own homeland
    also we should not forget if these indians make a hue and cry for their mumbai attack and blame pakistan, just see how many of us have lost our dear ones by the hands of those who r supported by our sweet neighbour indiaRecommend

  • Amna
    Dec 11, 2010 - 5:19AM

    @kittu: did you even read what I wrote? It obviously went right over your head. Where is the proof of Pakistani connection to the Mumbai attacks? Why is it not being brought out and presented to Pakistan and the world? Because there is none. so yes, you are just full of hate and that is why you make the statements you do and act as you do.

    And you need to stop blindly listening to everything you hear on indian media. the only one blindly following anyone or anything is you.

    As you have probably noticed on this website and other Pakistani sites and T.V shows if you have ever seen them….Pakistanis DO question our government and can very well identify our issues. Things are definitely changing although it will take a lot of time to bring real tangible change to Pakistan. We do not blindly deny anything. But unless you provide proof…you are the only one blindly following Indian authorities.
    Just because Pakistan has an issue with terrorism and extremism at the moment, does not mean that anything and everything the happens in india can be blamed on Pakistan.

    It is all too easy for Indians to use the “terrorist” excuse to blame anything baselessly without evidence on Pakistan unfortunately.Recommend

  • Amna
    Dec 11, 2010 - 5:24AM

    @sheraz: I really don’t take them that seriously. But I do reply when I think someone is saying something wrong or is just being obnoxious.

    And as far as being a “giant” or a superpower is concerned….India just wishes they could be another America. They have very important ties due to economic reasons with the U.S and wants to be a regional bully in an attempt to emulate them. Too bad, they are not half as threatening as they wish to be. Sure are annoying though.Recommend

  • Kittu
    Dec 11, 2010 - 5:36AM

    @Amna & Sheraz

    Playing ignorant or dumb doesn’t make you a Patriotic Pakistani. Hating India doesn’t make you a Patriotic Pakistani. Mumbai incident is not the only one, but there are tens of terrorist activities (Pune , Bangalore , Coimbattore, Hyderabad….etc) originated from Pakistan.

    And Sheraz, India is not a Regional Giant. And for your satisfaction I would even agree, 99.9% of India is poor. But I wouldn’t agree , India is responsible for terror activities in Pakistan. It is created by institutions in Pakistan. Here is just a recent example..
    http://tribune.com.pk/story/88268/pakistani-media-fake-wikileaks-cables-attacking-india-published/Recommend

  • Aqbal
    Dec 11, 2010 - 7:54AM

    Great article, long overdue.
    “Hate-India,” has been and is, the opiate of the massive miserable sections of the population in Pakistan. Army leaders & politicians have used it well (for themselves). Mullahs have benefitted.
    Pakistan can be another successful and rich state like Singapore. Broad-based English language education is the key. Resources need to be invested in this. it can be done.Recommend

  • Kittu
    Dec 11, 2010 - 9:31AM

    @ Amna & Sheraz

    These are todays news from BBC..http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11967664

    We have internet to share these. But Guess for how long your Army and ISI are keeping you misinformed.Recommend

  • Rajat
    Dec 11, 2010 - 10:28AM

    @amna, sheraz, etc..

    Sour grapes and disillusionment at effect. Well.. what can I say, the the Pakistani circus has come to town.Recommend

  • Anoop
    Dec 11, 2010 - 5:19PM

    @Waqas,

    “Without Pakistan army, where does India go?”

    Without Pakistani army the LeTs and the Jaishs will be replaced by the Taliban.

    We already have a violent neighbour but we haven’t disintegrated or anything. If Pak falls to the Taliban, then too our borders will remain sealed.

    USA has a border with lawless Mexico but that hasn’t stopped USA’s rise or has caused any harm to it. Same will be with respect to India and Pakistan.

    Almost all of India’s neighbours are volatile except China and to a certain extent Bhutan. But, India has never been affected by them. Recommend

  • Amna
    Dec 11, 2010 - 6:35PM

    @Rajat: yea yea yea…so are sour grapes….that explains the way we act…but what about you guys? Recommend

  • Dec 11, 2010 - 6:40PM

    I think this is the time now that we should focus more towards”collective responsibility” rather putting all blames on one institution ,it will not serve to the solution which we are long hoping for,our corrupt political elite and judiciary  are also responsible for our present state.if all institutions work according to the lines provided by the constitution i am very hopeful that we can gain respectful status among the league of prosperous nations.Pakistanis are very talented,hardworking,patriotic and loving people,we only need the continuation of a fair democratic process and strengthening of our institutions,this is the only viable solution of our problems whether someone likes it or not.          Recommend

  • Amna
    Dec 11, 2010 - 7:14PM

    @kittu: So our newspapers have admitted that they published something fake. I think that is a very good thing.

    The article says the fake cables “are believed” to have been planted by the ISI. so when does India, England and any other country actually come out with some evidence?

    Just because BBC says that it is believed the ISI may have done it, is enough evidence?

    Seriously people, lets start using our own heads and not give CNN BBC and other channels the right to think for us. Judging from this, I think Pakistani media is more credible than your media any day.

    Oh, and by the way, I do not need a newspaper to tell me India commits war crimes in Kashmir. Recommend

  • Dec 11, 2010 - 8:55PM

    Bold write up. You hit the nail. George. This is going to pinch a lot of peopleRecommend

  • M.Srinath
    Dec 12, 2010 - 12:52AM

    By George, You ‘ve hit the nail.Pakistan needs more Georges & Hayatulla Dawars to get back on rails.Recommend

  • Dec 12, 2010 - 3:33PM

    George’s article ‘ Army and Country’ is nothing but just a trick to gain cheap popularity from the anti-army people. In simple words he has tried to humiliate and defame Pakistan Army. But doesn’t matter all Pakistanis know very well the truth that it is only the Pak Army which has rescued the country every time when it was about to collapse under the hands of selfish and corrupt politicians who have been beating the drums of democracy.

    George may be asked that whether he honestly compared other armies of the world especially the US Army, Israeli Army and the Indian Army with the Pakistan Army. The corrupt practices and open war crime by the US Army in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan by Israeli Army in Palestine and in the Indian held Kashmir by the Indian Army are few examples.

    As regards George’s remarks ” For too long the military/intelligence nexus has been immune to any sort of accountability or criticism. We can judge the judiciary, pillory the politicians and mock the media. But the army receives a free reign. The generals/admirals/air marshals — who can be as corrupt and venal as the political class — rarely receive similar press coverage, despite the fact that the army is the biggest private landowner in Pakistan. They run businesses, residential areas, schools and hospitals but somehow they largely avoid scrutiny”. He failed to name any general, admiral or air marshal who were ever found involved in any corrupt case or if so were not accountable either by the government or their own institution.

    This shows that either George lack knowledge. I suggest Mr George volunteer to join Pakistan Army and go through a long course of Pakistan Military Academy (PMA) of two and a half years duration at Kakul. Recommend

  • Palwasha Khan
    Dec 12, 2010 - 4:35PM

    @kittu wrote to Amna.You say you hate institutions in Pakistan and speak of terrorism.Within context to terrorism please speak of what Indian Army is doing in Kashmir.Your extremist mindset and what Indian Muslims faced in Gujrat.Stop worrying about Pakistans institutions.Please visit realities in India first.You guys can not accept Pakistan a nuclear country like yourself.We are open minded and accept India.Please accept ground realities,and try to be a good neighbourRecommend

  • Aqbal
    Dec 12, 2010 - 7:16PM

    The powers that are responsible and their agents, have shown us, how to use damned lies to chemically convert what Karl Marx called ‘OPIATE’ into a ‘Metamphetamine’. Then ‘drug & excite’ willing fools and send them to their deaths promising them a better, unproven and non-existent AFTERLIFE.
    Ironically Wiki Leaks is to tell the world the truth…Recommend

  • H
    Dec 13, 2010 - 3:04PM

    i love how georgy has become a pakistani. We do live in the land of the free.Recommend

  • RIzwan
    Dec 27, 2010 - 1:11PM

    all indian commenting on this post need to mind their business.
    this purely is Pakistani matter and we will look into it ourwelves.
    2nd thing , the writer forgot to mention the wikileaks about our policitians who are so desperate and power hungry that they would share each and everything with americans. Does this democracy can help Pakistan to come out of multiple crisis we are facing. We have seen around the globe that democracies can absorb enormous pressures because they have public support but Pakistani politicians would find it to get the help of USA rahter their own people which in contrast to american help will be long lasting and reliable too. most importantly you dont lose your intergrity and honour.
    We have seen people like Fazul Rehan who in public would not spare any chance to bash USA but privately have been bowing down to same for becoming PM of Pakistan which he will never and should not become.
    So i think every country has its own dynamics according to which power sharing formula reachs a final settelment. It is not necessary for Pakistan to follow the same roadmap as our westren friends often ask to follow to become a true democratic nation.
    Army is not causing suffering to Pakistan rather they are saviors. At least we should show some respect.
    Although I sincerely believe that ultimately it is the job of Civilan to control the governement but until we find competent politicians we ought to save our contry first even at the expense of this so called democracy.
    Media should nurture and educate the common man to vote good people during election.Recommend

  • R S JOHAR
    Dec 28, 2010 - 4:08PM

    @Rizwan
    As an Indian I do agree with your comments that Army of any country act as a saviour against external and internal threats and needs to be respected. I am extremely thankful to Express Tribune who is giving us the opportunity to express our views and shown courage and character to publish fair comments against some institutions who are treated as holy cows in Pakistan which is commendable.
    Well as regards your views that Indians should mind their own business is also well taken but unfortunately your Army is the most powerful institution in Pakistan and not only India but the whole world acknowledges it. India is not afraid of Pak Army but they are aware that all foreign and defence policy decisions are dictated by it and not the civilian Govt. The perception in India is that Army is hindering the peace talks between two countries as well as aiding and sending terrorists across the border which has been admitted openly my Gen Musharraf in London recently. Under such circumstances, Indians feel aggrieved to speak about your Army. There will be no stability in the region till this ill-concieved policy started by late Gen Zia is shelved and zero tolerance to terrorism is shown by Pakistan. Recommend

  • J.Oberoi
    Dec 29, 2010 - 1:49PM

    @Sqn Ldr S.Ausaf Husain ( Retd), do you care to qualify your statements with some facts? How did the army “rescue” Pakistan time and again? Are you referring to the three wars that Pakistan “won”? Is that what you have been led to believe? Funny how a nation can “win” a war and yet 94,000 soldiers along with officers and generals signed a document of surrender.Recommend

  • R S JOHAR
    Dec 29, 2010 - 4:33PM

    @Sqn Ldr S Ausaf & J Oberoi
    Oberoi, I would like to correct you since Ausaf categorically states that Army rescued Pakistan by taking over the reigns of the country and obviously these so called rescue acts had nothing to do with wars with India. Its another matter that Pak Army had always been the originator of all wars with India, whether it was genocide in Bangla Desh subsequenly leading to war, mis-adventures in 1965, Kargil and on going proxy war in Kashmir.
    Sqn Ldr Ausaf, your statement that Pak Army had rescued the country is far fetched as majority of Pakistanis state openly that the country is on the brink today due to thirty years of misrule by Army dictators. Gen Niazi’s genocide in BD divided the country into two parts, late Gen Zia created the era of exporting terrorism using it as a tool for settling political and military disputes with India and in Afghanistan giving rise to terrorism in Pakistan, making discriminatory laws against minorities resuting in hatred and killing, to extend his rule, made extensive use of religion and mullas which encouraged sectarian violence, Gen Musharraf choked judiciary and killed democracy etc etc. The ongoing proxy war can lead to yet another war. Pl do think it over whether the above actions during Army rule were disastrous or rescue acts for Pakistanis.Recommend

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