Indian circus comes to town!

Published: November 29, 2010
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The writer was a Ford Scholar at the Program in Arms Control, Disarmament and International Security at UIUC (1997) and a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution's Foreign Policy Studies Program

The writer was a Ford Scholar at the Program in Arms Control, Disarmament and International Security at UIUC (1997) and a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution's Foreign Policy Studies Program

Ivan Petrovich Pavlov is famous for his research on conditional reflexes, though he did much else to serve the cause of scientific inquiry. The phrase “Pavlov’s dog” has come to describe someone who merely reacts to a situation rather than using critical thinking. Famous English writer, Aldous Huxley, used the idea of Pavlovian conditioning as a major theme in his dystopian novel, Brave New World.

Now, keep in mind the Pavlovian reflex and then write the word India in a Pakistani newspaper that also reaches Indians through the World Wide Web. For greater fun, try identifying India’s many problems. You will have a growling bunch pounce on you. They would even look scary if they weren’t so clownishly Pavlovian.

Random exhibit: a few days ago this newspaper carried an editorial exhorting the Pakistani readers to take note that while India might be weighed down by corruption etcetera, schadenfreude is not Pakistan’s best response and we need to see why the world has a more positive view of India. Perfectly legit and decent this argument.

The non-Pavlovian response would have been to appreciate the newspaper for putting things in a perspective. Perish that thought, however. Like the biblical Gog and Magog arrived the Indians, as they always do, to attack the writer of the piece and Pakistan with nary a thought to the nuance contained in the argument.

There was only one Pakistani reader, G Khan, who kept his humour and noticed, with some amusement, the number of Indians who had pounced on the editorial compared to the Pakistanis and this, praise be to the Lord, in a Pakistani newspaper while, no prizes for guessing, accusing Pakistanis of being obsessed with India! That’s the current pitch. If you are an Indian, you smell like a rose by default; if you are a Pakistani, well, you know what that means!

While Indian newspapers, for the most part, will not publish comments by Pakistanis critical of India nor allow Pakistani writers to tackle ticklish issues of which there is a surfeit, we seem to show a generosity that borders on the masochistic. I should know the Indian attitude, exceptions granted, having written for two major Indian newspapers in the last ten years. I still do for one.

There have been comments upon comments in this newspaper by Indians about, among other things, corruption in Pakistan. Something like the 2G scandal in Pakistan would have given the Indians a field day. Try placing a comment on the Radia tapes, a scandal which, alone in its spread, is enough to eclipse Pakistan’s collective scams over 63 years, or even offer to write on it in an Indian newspaper, and you would know what I am saying.

India has its strengths, without doubt. We need to emulate them, no gainsaying that either. But for Indians to embark on an exercise, every time a whistle is blown, to prove India is the best thing to happen this side of Eden is to ask for willing suspension of disbelief at a level that defies even disbelief.

But while India would deal with its issues internally and even scathingly, it won’t let outsiders in. That’s fine by me. But a people who are so aggressively private about their affairs should use the same benchmark for others.

Having said this, and despite everything that is wrong with India, what is most commendable is the average Indian’s pride in his state, something we sorely lack; his confidence in collective action; his resolve that slowly but surely he will carry India forward and his understanding that his relationship with the state is interactive. Problems there are but they are to be taken care of, not constantly lamented about.

Contrast this with the comments Pakistani readers pen, full of despondency, predicting doomsday scenarios, waiting for a deus ex machina, desiring a utopia, putting the onus of everything on the state while wishing for manna to descend from the Heavens, much like the Israelites. Change requires more than just trawling the net and penning dirges, folks. It needs thoughtful action and solutions. Are we ready for the hard work?

Meanwhile, I have said India and Indians a number of times here; the circus is about to hit town!

Published in The Express Tribune, November 29th, 2010.

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Reader Comments (100)

  • G. Din
    Nov 29, 2010 - 4:06AM

    Indians like to puncture the unjustified self-important posture of Pakistanis. It is a kind of sport for them. Don’t take it seriously and become ridiculous! If it provides some comfort, they do it to each other, too. Therein, my friend, lies their strength and good humour.Recommend

  • SSA
    Nov 29, 2010 - 5:03AM

    I’m waiting with bated breath for the inevitable storm, Ejaz sahab. This time I’ll just sit back and enjoy the comments from our friends from across the border. Oh, and equally funny will be opinions voiced by some of our, dare I say – apologist? brothers and sisters from this side of the border. ;-)Recommend

  • Arindom
    Nov 29, 2010 - 5:44AM

    Well, I’m sure you’d be thoroughly disappointed if nobody commented on your articles !! Much like the Bollywood fan who would get a depression if he is not recognised in an Indian city!!

    So here goes – Pavlovian or not –

    I am sure all the comments have been made by middle class Indians – the rich don’t have time and the poor don’t have internet. There is something called “middle class morality” and one of the nuances is NOT washing dirty linen in public – least of all neighbours!!

    This is a common human trait and nothing pavlovian about it – if Pakistanis are a different animal – I’d love to know. So we will gladly hang our corrupt politicians, but we donot want neighbours to see the corruption!!

    Would you not scold your son if he had stolen something? But would you want to advertise it all around the neighbourhood? This is the same logic.

    And you’re right – Indians will not wait a corruption free India in the next world. We want corruption OUT, NOW.Recommend

  • Someone
    Nov 29, 2010 - 5:46AM

    Haha! you are classic sir…on the spotRecommend

  • Someone
    Nov 29, 2010 - 5:46AM

    The part I love: “But a people who are so aggressively private about their affairs should use the same benchmark for others.”Recommend

  • vasan.
    Nov 29, 2010 - 5:53AM

    Excellent meaningful criticism about India and Indians. Hope we learnRecommend

  • Taimur
    Nov 29, 2010 - 6:17AM

    Makes absolute sense. My comments on the timesofindia vanish in thin air and none of them are even being close to provocative or pro-pak or even anti-india. But it never surprised me :)Recommend

  • khan Baloch
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:00AM

    Oh at last Mr. Haider … It dawns on u too.
    But was it ever a secret that India (read indians) deem Pakistan a blunder of history ??? Something for which they won’t forgive the history itself, always looking to turn back the wheels of time. But who cares, let them burn in the cauldron of their obsession.

    But all their passion notwithstanding, I must appreciate them for delivering a reality check to our intelligentia who in their (undoubtedly) sincere efforts to build the bridges between two countries tend to ignore compelling ground realities. Having goody goody exchanges of words and sentiments is one thing and getting on table for serious business is entirely another. And that is when actions emanating from either side speak way louder than the words that we so routinely hear … the rhetoric of oneness et al.

    Still, one shud keep pursuing the policy of peace and so shud Pakistan, but peace is achieved only by accepting the reality and by taking up the challenge to address its call; it never comes by turning ur face the other side or by professing that crow is white.

    RgdsRecommend

  • J. Oberoi
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:01AM

    The author’s thesaurus is in danger of being prematurely worn out. Such venom in the garb of erudition. Whenever Indians comment ( that they do in droves ) on anything related to Kashmir or Pakistan arming itself, Pakistani writers reach into their bag of knives. For the last time, who ever claimed that India is free of corruption? India is probably more corrupt than Pakistan and the scale is off the charts. “Gog and Magog”? “Schadenfreude”? “deus ex machina”? I haven’t seen so many high-fa-luting terms ever come together in one piece stretched nicely to fill a few pages. :-)Recommend

  • Ashwin
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:04AM

    Well written and Point Taken.we Indians only comment on your articles , we don’t train and send terrorist to attack your country.Recommend

  • Talat
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:19AM

    Why I have not read any unreasonable comment of an Indian on the issue of corruption in Pakistan. Recommend

  • Raqib Ali
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:40AM

    I fully agree with the author. Our Indian friends have basically forgotten that they are also human and they are burdened with so many problems.

    I met a Bangladeshi guy in London who was anti Pakistan and pro India. He was a Sheikh Hasina supporter. After a year’s interaction with ARROGANCE coming from many Indian international students, he became friends with Pakisanis and is more anti India than many Pakistanis. It is high time that Indians realise that their arrogance will leave them no friends anywhere!Recommend

  • sudhir
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:43AM

    writing an entire article fuming about, of all the things, ‘readers comments?’
    sir, its very childish. it is ..well… pavlov’s reflex!

    not just that, you are telling in straightforward language to the readers that the right thing for them should do is ‘appreciate your article’!Recommend

  • Rajat
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:52AM

    Haha. lol. Wonderful piece man!

    my two cents(or paisa) on it
    Well for one, many of you earlier had been cringing to the fact that Indians are being fed anti-Pak propaganda by the Indian media, if more Indians are reading the online edition of the paper it only means we want the truth about Pakistan as told by Pakistanis themselves. and I see that most (or all) Indians respond to articles/blogs/opinions which is on India. so asking us to read pak media for the truth and then bashing them for commenting on it is harsh if not hypocritical.

    Well secondly, your media is brutal and the way the articles are written one gets a feeling it is against constructive criticism, I agree one should not hide facts, but one should not make it scathing. Brings down the morale IMHO. The comments section is the most wonderful thing in this newspaper, we get the general idea what a tom, Dick & Harry in Pak thinks, I must say it is fairly conservative, with a lot of anti-India anger. Some are just wonderful and I am in awe that with all our history, some keep a totally professional outlook without bringing their emotions and stick to the facts. but unfortunately these are in minority.(but i dont see an Indian commenting professionally either, myself included, lol). Recommend

  • sudhir
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:58AM

    and thank you for the generosity to indian writers. but frankly the only indian political writers i hav seen so far on pak websites are some arundhati roys (pakistan’s favourate), some kuldeep nayyars, and one indian mullah on dawn whose every alternate word is either “fascist” or “baniya”.
    i have not seen them writing anything about pakistan, let alone anything negative about pakistan in pakistani newspaper. Recommend

  • sudhir
    Nov 29, 2010 - 8:06AM

    one more thing. i stumbled upon this website two weeks back(indian newspapers are getting boring day by day). and i must say i found the content of this website very interesting, their writers very good and reader’s comments quite mature and well written.Recommend

  • Asad
    Nov 29, 2010 - 8:33AM

    Brilliant!Recommend

  • Abraham Rajan
    Nov 29, 2010 - 9:13AM

    Very well said Mr Haider.
    Corruption is pretty much written in the DNA to the extent that pretending it’s not an issue can sometimes can be therapeutic.
    Hence this reaction.Recommend

  • cheema
    Nov 29, 2010 - 9:20AM

    I remember the post. The current Indian and Pakistani mentality is a classic case of animal spirits taking control (read Robert Shiller). Pakistan is a classic case of despondency and India is a classic case of over confidence. It is the outcome of linear thinking (the world is non-linear actually), If a country does well for a few years then it would keep on doing well for the next 100 years and if a country that suffers for a few years than it would continue suffering for the next 100 years. This is a problem embedded in our psychology.
    .
    To tickle my indian friends, I simply state that in 2008 World Bank report, India had 41.6% of its population classified as poor compared to Pakistan’s 17.2%. That figure alone should be enough to make people think or change perceptions, but unfortunately there is so much animus spewed against Pakistan in Indian newspaper that it becomes difficult to think clearly. I have tried to comment on indian newspaper, but none of them were ever published. There is more news about Pakistan in an Indian newspaper than on India itself, which by the way is 10 times bigger. Open times of india any time of the day and the top news would be on Pakistan. Recommend

  • Nov 29, 2010 - 9:53AM

    We always talk about hard work and a right direction as a panacea for our ills, agreed. But there is something else which we lack the most i.e. LEADERSHIP. A leadership on the same wavelength as its followers are, having the same ideology as its followers has………Recommend

  • Shoaib Muhammad Khan
    Nov 29, 2010 - 9:57AM

    Haider, Are you sure you wrote this or even bothered to review it?

    CANT BELIEVE IT MATE!!! SO GOOD FOR SURE INDEED!

    1 bit to add.
    (More of my family still lives in India and I think for India deep by heart)

    Indians and Americans have at least 1 thing in common if not more.

    and that is that Whatever so they may see on their media they made-up their mind on those basis. And then they counter question it and when they cant get things sorted the right way, they somehow start to stress upon what they think and not the fact.

    Perhaps that’s what I have learned after involving with them in numerous debates.Recommend

  • hina
    Nov 29, 2010 - 10:50AM

    great piece!Recommend

  • Ajay Goyal
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:05AM

    Having been to Pakistan and being regularly in touch with Pakistani media and people, I can vouch for the fact that both countries are obsessed with each other. The news of the arch rival faltering never ceases to please the ego. Games of petty one-upmanship are apparent in all interactions Indians and Pakistanis have at all forums.

    In fact, dear author, the fact that you’ve chosen to write about this very thing – is also exemplary of the over-interest that we tend to show in each other’s lives as nations. You are also infected by this common virus !Recommend

  • Jahanzaib Haque
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:28AM

    Enjoyed this a lot.Recommend

  • Sonam Shyam
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:33AM

    I don’t agree with the author when he says that Indians criticize Pakistan and when Pakistan does the same to us, we don’t allow that to happen. We Indians are always ready to take criticism from the world including Pakistan but we are not ready to accept distorted propaganda by anyone being passed off as gospel truth. The author must verify the fact that Indians comment more on articles published regarding India since most Pakistani articles present a distorted picture of India. Therefore as Indians, we feel its our duty to defend the wrongful depiction of our country anywhere in the world and its not Pakistan specific. There may be a few arrogant Indians commenting on this forum but lets accept it, they are by and large, exceptions. Before concluding I must admit that the Express Tribune website graciously allows Indians to present their opinions and I congratulate them for being extremely balanced while tackling ticklish India-Pakistan issues. Recommend

  • Nov 29, 2010 - 11:41AM

    It was post mumbai that I began to read Pakistani newspapers and enroute I watched Zaid Hamid videos. While the extent to which we are hated in Pakistan blew me away, what really made me stay with the Pakistan story were the likes of Asma Jahangirs, Pervez Hoodobhoys, the hasan nissars and the Najis etc etc. Imran Khan surprisingly fell of the pedestal with his offensive views on skin colour.

    There was some guilty pleasure as well – the grudging admiration of pakistanis with regard to some aspects of Indian polity that I had never dwelt on.

    I began to look at our pathetic era of fiats and ambassadors with renewed respect, raised Lal Bahadur Shastry and his simplicity to even higher levels of respect, discovered Maulana Azad and stopped taking our secular traditions for granted. So thank you Pakistan.

    In fact Ramchandra Guha in his latest book about the Makers of Modern India has included Jinnah because the latter made Nehru and gandhi talk more forcefully about secularism. Recommend

  • Waqas
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:44AM

    Dear Mr. Haider

    Bulls eye! An excellent piece.

    I always thought that educated upper-middle class Indians would have an objective outlook and balanced approach towards Pakistan, but these comments I see on ET prove me wrong.

    Once a famous Dutch comedian asked “Why the Dutch hate Germans?” And he answered back “Because they are too much like us!” :-)Recommend

  • Rahul Khare
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:48AM

    A very warm Adab to all of you! I hail from a country that deems guests(invited or unbidden) as god sent and concurrently belong to a city whose guest courtesy (read mehman nawazi) is renowned outside its official geographical limits. In the context of your article, I’d just like to emphasize that the host must rationally evaluate the guests with what he/she leaves than what he/she consumes. If points worth mentioning are being discussed then they should be talked about instead of pointing a finger at the nationality of the source. The nation of India is undergoing a cultural renaissance and with each passing day the ‘we’ is getting more pronounced than I or you. This ‘we class’ proudly acknowledges the progress that are being made and in light of this progress has started questioning the mistakes of the past and present so as to eschew them from commission in future. One nation does get affected by the development (or the lack of it) by its neighbour. The Indian nation proudly tasleem the existence of Pakistani nation and if in the process, some of us share some interesting, hard hitting and well grounded ‘facts’ on forums that are open for all then what the heck is wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with an efficiently-run circus, Indian or non Indian. It enthralls, it excites as well as provide livelihood to the people. Avoid chaos and enjoy the circus! That’s the way it is meant to be. An Indian circus showcasing bright colours, sparkle,energy, positivity etc, the things that brighten up the life of one and all, guest as well as host, must be welcome.
    Neither Yajuj nor Maruj, we are simply Indians with something positive to share with are Pakistani brethren on forums that do not distinguish views/opinions on the basis of religion or nationality.
    Be Happy, B+.Recommend

  • MQ
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:49AM

    There is hardly any coverage in Indian media of day to day news from Pakistan. If at all Pakistan figures it is usually for the wrong reasons.

    (For that matter there is hardly any coverage of news from the rest of the world either – other than US, Australia and a bit of UK. Since the US is the best marketed country however, a lot of info is anyway available about it almost anywhere in the world.)

    This blinkered approach to the goings-on in the rest of the world is frustrating for at least some of us Indians. The rorts of the media’s blinkered approach Its roots lie probably in increasing TRPs and selling advertising space. I guess Bollywood, political corruption and sensational news garners more eyeballs. Surprisingly some of the government media is sometimes more balanced in its current affairs coverage – though it obviously has its own share of official propaganda.

    Internet has for the first time provided a great alternative for some of us to “pull” news rather than being subjected to news “pushed” by local media. And several Indians, myself included, are for the first time finding out the diversity of opinion prevailing in Pakistan. Initial finger pointing and superior airs are understandable as people find some of their preconceived ideas about Pakistan challenged. I don’t condone this but I can understand it. Some of it is quite immature. I can also understand the reaction that you have expressed in this article. I think most people soon tire of this childish behaviour however, and genuinely desire to engage in meaningful discussions with those across the border, through fora such as the Comments pages of newspapers.Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Nov 29, 2010 - 12:18PM

    @Author

    While you wait for ‘Indian circus to comes to town’, we dont want ‘Pakistani fireworks in our town’.

    RegardsRecommend

  • Talat
    Nov 29, 2010 - 12:29PM

    @G.Din, “puncture self….posture” what do u mean by this?Recommend

  • Cherish Raj
    Nov 29, 2010 - 12:33PM

    That was nice!! The write up was a psychoanalytic rabbit out of a journalistic hat!! But as always, a Pakistani perception of a ‘mature’, ‘pragmatic’, ‘peace loving’ and ‘level headed’ Indian point of view is that of an Arundhati Roy or a Jawed Naqwi, who are nobody in India though rock stars in Pakistan. I hope Pakistan appropriates them as the Pakistani society has no leftist liberals left. Thanks to the mullahs and the jehadis. Recommend

  • Pankaj
    Nov 29, 2010 - 12:37PM

    We Indians find it extremely hard to believe that when Pakistan which has so many problems on its plate , it still goes on and on about Kashmir, Kashmir Kashmir,

    This brings us to pakistani news websites

    Secondly Pakistan is finding it impossible to accept or digest India’s economic success and its own economic failures

    Hence there are so many anti India articles in all pakistani newspapersRecommend

  • Moiz
    Nov 29, 2010 - 12:47PM

    @Sonam Shyam

    Do you really think that your newspapers present a fair picture of Pakistan? and as for the constructive criticism you give us, there’s a thinly veiled abundance of glee oozing from every wordRecommend

  • Nov 29, 2010 - 1:00PM

    Ha ha .As an indian reader i enjoyed this article a lot.As the Nira Radia Tapes revealed there is a colussion between indian journalists,Big Corporates and politicians.So hardly the truth comes out.I find some Pakistani Newspapers like Dawn and ET are more neutral and blunt on their Govt. and its policies than their indian counterparts.Moderators are kind enough on these newspapers websites to publish my comments without any deletion.The mention of Pavlov Dog Phrase could have been avoided.Recommend

  • Kittu
    Nov 29, 2010 - 1:39PM

    @Mr Ejaz Haider
    Indians not only blog on this News Paper..Observe CNN, BBC. They are all over it. From what I observe from the comments section on this blog, Most of the time Indians comment only when India is in the context. They don’t usually cross their limits.

    About the scams. We are furious about them too. And yes recent ones are over the top. I wish International media ecspecially Pakistani media could cover them more. It might drive Indian politicians to be more accountable.
    Pakistani commetators can comment more on Indian news papers, but all I could see from them is Kashmir. * Indian Young generation are the reason for its success story. They fell in love with Idea of India, And no other Country has Better Story than India.* And world is acknowledging it. Agreed India has issues (Poverty, Caste System, Corruption) But I love the confidance , current generation has in overcoming them.Recommend

  • saher
    Nov 29, 2010 - 1:41PM

    Comments sections proves ur prediction right Mr. Haider :D interesting take on Indian as well as Pakistani psychology.Recommend

  • G.Khan
    Nov 29, 2010 - 1:54PM

    It’s a surprising observation that after Pavlov dog’s conditional response theory revelation, the response statistics has altogether reversed. That means that there are 11 Pakistanis and 5 Indians (it may change til this is posted) before my posting which is 70% Pakistanis vs. 30% Indians. This response is a sharp contrast from the editorial (Exhorting the Pakistani readers) where as the stats were completely opposite ( 66 % Indians and 33% Pakistanis). Question is what has happened that reversed the Stat within very short period of time?

    Whatever the reasons must be, one thing is clear that conditional reflex has a surprising ability to camouflage to innate reflex while a known danger is in sight. LOL.
    OR perhaps a Non-Palovian behavior is in progress however, mere 30% response is too early to conclude that. On the other hand, Pakistani 70% response rate most likely contribute to the positive conditional stimuli (positive when Indian are in lime light) otherwise there is less reason for them to be happy.

    Ejaz Haider took a very balanced approach. Where J.Obroi’s comments about “Gog and Magog”? “Schadenfreude” may raise a question, deus ex machina, desiring a utopia, and manna to descend from the Heavens, are harsher remarks addressed to Indians’ counterparts to strike the balance. He came harder on Pakistanis in his conclusion luring them into corrective measures.

    Whether both parties (Indians & Pakistanis) will adopt a more Non-Pavlovian approach in future, it is yet to be determined but Ejaz Haider has provided enough food for thought in that direction for sure. Recommend

  • parvez
    Nov 29, 2010 - 2:04PM

    An entertaining article.
    The point you make in the beginning appears to be validated by the comments so far.Recommend

  • anil
    Nov 29, 2010 - 2:25PM

    Well…Ivan Pavlov had done excellent experiments on Conditional reflex.But he had no answer to Uncoditional reflexes.Indians will be aggressive to any anti indian comments or when some outsider tries to pitch our problems.Before narrating others problem, they should look inword to see whether they are qualified enough to write such things.

    Indians learn these kind of reflexes from blogs,websites.But in case of Pakistans, Students are taught anti indian things in schools even their school books are biased,if i am not wrong.It is just like pouring sugar into tea without checking the tea is sweet enough or not.

    And for ur kind information.corruption is everywhere.Not only in India,but also in developed USA.Even Pakistan’s corruption Index is much higher than India’s.So,from it we can come to a conclusion that much corruptions in pakistan go unnoticed.But in case of India,it is different and we take it as a challange.We also see some hope to fight against it.Recommend

  • Asad Shairani
    Nov 29, 2010 - 2:36PM

    Spot-on.Recommend

  • Sufi Makdoom Hamza
    Nov 29, 2010 - 2:36PM

    Supremely beautiful article. This intolerance towards others point of view is in the psyche of Indians, it is ingrained in the varana philosophy of this nation- where no one can dare to talk louder than Brahman. It is 2.5 percent Brahamans that continue to rule India. Through varana psyche they have been ruling India and through this they want to dominate rest of the world. When Obama came to India all television channels put a “tilak” on picture of Obama and started all programs about his visit with this picture- it was again manifestation of Brahamnic hegemony.
    I have seen Pakistan writers writing in Indian papers always writing against their military generals and politicians but I am hardly to see any of Indian writers writing in Pakistan Newspapers writing against their country. Some Pakistani writers and documentary makers have been challenging very ideology that provides edifice to the existence of Pakistan. I have seen some both women and men Pakistani journalists, writers and film makers talking against the very idea of Pakistan in New Delhi press club- they call themselves progressive. I like this article immensely. Recommend

  • Jay S
    Nov 29, 2010 - 3:16PM

    Usually such fare is dished out in the comments section. But looks like it is hitting mainstreet in Pakistan.Recommend

  • Joginder Singh
    Nov 29, 2010 - 3:21PM

    I don’t know about the other Indians but the reason I regularly visit your site is because I want to know some alternative views. You seem puzzled by the Indians’ interest in ET, but the answer is in the article itself. You touched in passing on the Radia tapes affair. That’s the reason. For long I had the feeling that our media is being “managed” by some top guns in New Delhi. So I had to look elsewhere. Daily Mail of UK? News about old ladies slipping on the ice in Hampshire. NYT? Cabbie gets mugged near Central Park. Great news for the Brits and Yanks no doubt. Sure the Pakistani papers take some getting used to. Your views on Kashmir, Arundhati Roy etc for instance. The narrative being frequently interrupted by pbuh and swt also is a bit distracting at first (No,no,I’m not quarreling with that. Faith/prudence is your business). Still, ET does have a delightful Sub-continental flavour and the knowledge that nobody in the congress or other party office is dictating what we should read. Or not read. Thanks.Recommend

  • Raqib Ali
    Nov 29, 2010 - 3:53PM

    Indians ‘hate’ us so much that they cannot resist talking about us….Recommend

  • Nov 29, 2010 - 4:20PM

    You sir, are my favorite columnist. Recommend

  • Jflossy
    Nov 29, 2010 - 4:23PM

    Good stuff, totally true, however the crafty Indians, knowing that they’v been rumbled are staying away, the quiet before the storm? Recommend

  • Syed Nadir El-Edroos
    Nov 29, 2010 - 4:29PM

    I love how everyone is making generalizations of what Indians or Pakistani’s think. Out of the entire population of Pakistan and Inida, what proportion are literate, read english, have internet access, are active readers, and write comments? While the articles and the comments may be relevant to those individuals who enjoy debates and discussions, we should all take stock of the reality that the written word either in articles or comments dont really give us a true picture of what a Pakistani or Indian thinksRecommend

  • Waqqas Iftikhar
    Nov 29, 2010 - 4:34PM

    its funny how most of the indian commentators here talk about how arundhati roy and jawed naqvi, who buck the mainstream and ‘safe’narrative are the only popular indian writers in pakistan….while I have seen nadeem farooq paracha (of an arguably similar ilk in Pakistan) being lauded to the high heavens by indian commentators on his blog

    six of a dozen and whatnot…

    i thought this was a decent article by mr.haider – go to cricinfo for example, a cricketing website and there is an article about zaheer abbas…below which most comments are about how all great pakistani batsmen dont fall into the category of ‘greats’ by indian commentators…clearly when the article is not even remotely related to indian batsmen…
    i understand that this is only anectodal evidence and not hardcore statistical proof but its happened way too many times on various websites to actually be a ‘one-off’…Recommend

  • amoghavarsha.ii
    Nov 29, 2010 - 4:57PM

    The Author missed the points in the earlier column or he has not read properly.
    The earlier column Author was saying corruption was less in pakistan and was saying all reasons for not development in pakistan was mainly terrorism. Earlier column author was saying india was non exporting country etc., which are not right and also misleading most pakistanis. Which was why he got that response.
    You will also get most responses from Indians asusual as u r also misreading things.
    And saying mostly unsubstantiative things.

    Also If you think Indians are poking there nose in ur countries news websites, it is purely because common indians want to know if you people are really against terrorism as we have sufferred.
    Nobody in india believe in candle light carriers and talk show participants.
    Ofcourse very few believe in the nayyars kind of journals.Recommend

  • amoghavarsha.ii
    Nov 29, 2010 - 5:08PM

    If pakistanis did not bothered to attack mumbai, then this pavalov theory of ejaz would be in his mind shell only.
    Because Indians would not have bothered to check pak news/media.Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Nov 29, 2010 - 5:40PM

    @Author

    Sir, I always liked your style of writing when you used to write for dailytimes. This one seems to be a tricky one, but salutes to your final few paras, you have the courage to call a ‘spade as spade’. Keep writing Sir.Recommend

  • Raj
    Nov 29, 2010 - 6:18PM

    Forget about this opinion piece from Hon.Ejaz Haider.

    It is worthwhile to remember Hon.Ejaz Haider has been a “strategice expert” who for more than a decade was smugly sugesting India is going to bend down on its knees and deliver all the Pak supremacist ideology would dictate. Alas….today it is pakistan which is in shambles….Funny …Hon.Haider hasn’t given up his pavolovian anti-Indian hostility and obsession!Recommend

  • Anoop
    Nov 29, 2010 - 6:27PM

    Well, get used to it. In about a decade or so, or even sooner, there will be more Internet users in India than people in Pakistan. All of the World’s Websites will have a sizable representation of Indians and will swarm all Pakistani English Language sites.

    Add Internet to the list which includes Music, Movies, Pop-Culture,etc.

    I suggest not to go overboard with generalizations. I also advice you to switch to Urdu from English.Recommend

  • rangacharya kulkarni
    Nov 29, 2010 - 6:38PM

    Great ! Hider sab! Argumentative Indians! The way we are! Recommend

  • DN
    Nov 29, 2010 - 6:47PM

    V apt n on the spot. This should also b a sattire on some of our ‘progressive’ columnists who criticize our society for the sole purpose of acknowledgement from the West n across the border of course.Recommend

  • Praveen Kumar
    Nov 29, 2010 - 6:51PM

    @Ezaj: You need to read Indian newspapers and you will know that we Indians do not spare anyone who has done wrong. India is not far better than Pakistan, but its direction of development is far better. Point is not to belittle Pakistan but to be able to call a spade a spade. India is not perfect but it has shown time and again that it is capable of producing good leaders right from Nehru to Manmohan Singh. There will be lot more scams to come but we also have leaders like Manmohan singh, Sonia Gandhi, Krishna, Mukherjee, Narendra Modi (yes) and Nitish Kumar who are dead-honest. Pakistan do not have a single leader (at state and national level) who is honest. What do you expect from us? Recommend

  • Amna
    Nov 29, 2010 - 7:21PM

    Excellant article…I am glad there are ET writers who aren’t so obsessed with trying to prove themselves as “liberal” that they can make rational obserations. And actually call Indians out when most Indian commenters are clearly full of bias and hate.

    Nothing against Indians…but as a proud Pakistani I believe it is quite easy to identify the clear bias and hatred of some writersRecommend

  • Junaid
    Nov 29, 2010 - 8:37PM

    Amazing article, Ejaz! You’ve certainly set the cat among the pigeons this time!

    Honestly, I love the Indian knee-jerk reaction to your op-ed!Recommend

  • Sheraz Ahmed
    Nov 29, 2010 - 8:38PM

    @Praveen Kumar: In your haste to jump in, you got the name of the writer wrong: it’s “Ejaz” Haider. As for your exhortation that Mr. Haider read Indian newspapers to see how “we Indians do not spare anyone who has done wrong,” two points:

    One, he didn’t say anything about what “you” Indians do at home. Having clearly missed his point, unwittingly or wittingly, you should re-read the piece.

    And two, I find it amusing that you’re recommending Indian newspapers to someone who writes for them! I have read, in the recent past, Mr. Haider’s pieces in papers like the Times of India and the Indian Express. It’s likely he knows what he’s talking about!

    @raj: Given what Mr. Haider is written, you win the award for the best Indian comment!Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 29, 2010 - 9:38PM

    Who are these Indians and what do they want?Recommend

  • R S JOHAR
    Nov 29, 2010 - 10:01PM

    Excellent article sir. As an Indian I fully appreciate and endorse your views on our mindset which is truly stated. Frankly speaking, myself too is a proud Indian but for valid reasons. As an Indian I am proud that 1. Hindu, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians are living under the same roof with peace and harmony and getting equal opportunities for development. 2. In our education curiculam all religions are given equal status and respect and no hatred teaching towards any religion, caste or creed included. 3. Minorities not ill-treated and capable personnel are/had been PM’S, President’s, high level Govt servants, leading sports persons, actors 4 To see actor Salman Khan drawing more crowd than national/ local leaders and Kashmiri Muslim standing first in coveted IAS examination. 5 India economy on course with 9 percent growth rate and President of a Super Power coming to India to find jobs for his country. Of course there is other side of the coin as well but that is part of world phenomina but more importantly we Indians need to be humble. I would like to congratulate Express Tribune who are in the process of overtaking Daily Times and Dawn. Nevertheless journalism in English language in Pakistan is at par with India.Recommend

  • Neeraj, India
    Nov 29, 2010 - 10:04PM

    Mr. Author,
    You have written an article on the readers of a particular nationality, using the silly pavlov theory or whatever that is, perhaps, first of its kind of writeup in the world. Anyway I must admit that your article surprised me, because it has been a persistent complaint of Pakistani readers for a long time, but I never expected a writer of your stature to join them. This is ridiculous.
    Let me demystify the mystery for you. There are basically three simple reasons for Indians to be seen everywhere, not just on Pakistani forums, but on entire web world.
    The first reason is our sheer numbers, we are not just the second most populous country in the world but also the second largest English speaking country(232 million) of the world, after the US(251 million). Soon, we are going to overtake the US to become the world’s largest English speaking country. Not just that, unlike the US, the Indian English speakers are highly educated with good IQ levels.
    In contrast, even going by the proportional levels, number of English speaker in Pakistan is minuscule. You are a media man and must be well aware of the circulation numbers of Pakistani English papers. Even the combined circulation of Pakistan’s English print media is no match for even single Indian national paper, forget about the world’s largest circulated English daily, the Times of India. Apart from this, there exists no English electronic media in Pakistan. I am writing all this because it should not come as a surprise for anyone, if number of Indian readers is disproportionately high compared to Pakistani readers.
    The second reason is even more simple. Pakistan is our neighbor and for that matter a nasty neighbor. After 26/11 Pakistan gained unprecedented notoriety in India. I live in the city of Mumbai and trust me I can never forget those 60 plus hours of sheer horror. Like me millions and millions of fellow Indians went through the same kind of trauma throughout India. It is only after that ghastly event, Pakistan became an enigma to many Indians like me, otherwise it was confined to the candle bearers like Kuldeep Nayar. We are not obsessed with Pakistan. Even today Indian youngsters know more about New York than Karachi.
    The third reason for our reaction is that, often strange and completely ignorant comments are made by some Pakistani readers such as @Sufi Makdoom Hamza. I usually ignore such comments but some of the fellow Indians do react. Tell me Mr Author can you blame such Indians. Mr. Sufi says that 2.5 per cent of Brahmins are ruling India. If I ask him to name a single Brahmin Chief Minister out of India’s 28 states and 9 union territories and a Union Government, then are you going to blame me or any other Indian reader for asking that?
    As for Indian newspapers not publishing Pakistani comments is concerned, then that is a blatant lie. How may of you know that Hindustan Time do not moderate readers comments, the moment you post, it is instantly published. I saw many Pakistani comments on TOI too. The problem is Pakistanis tend to be religious and very sensitive about religious matters. Most of the Pakistanis’ world view revolves around religion, whereas Indians, though not downright abusive, but, refute Pakistani readers without caring for their tender religious feelings and that is quite normal in India. But, Pakistanis get upset at that and therefore, I think, they hate to comment on Indian newspapers.
    Lastly, let me inform you that, we Indian too, face problems here. My experience with Dawn was bad,so bad that I stopped writing to it. Anyway I admire ET for their liberal policy, but that is how it should be. Recommend

  • jj
    Nov 29, 2010 - 10:20PM

    EXPRESS TRIBUNE is a GREAT newspaper from pakistan. this is the only newspaper from pak which have a well balanced view and articles. it does not have fundamental and brainwashing thoughts like others.
    other english newpapers from pak are filled with anti india, anti america, anti israel thinking. one newspaper have indian hatard videos showing an incident of eve teasing by army man and its reaction. what does it shows none country is perfect and also such an incident can happen everywhere and also this incident could not be generalized upon whole army or country.
    we indians are interested in pak newspapers only because we have suffered from terrorism from pak and mainly after 26/11 mumbai attack. we want to know the thinking of its common citizen about terrorism.
    i appreciate views from pakistanis here. but i frequently encounter one thing is very common in pak citizens that they INTERMINGLE RELIGION AND COUNTRY. in any other country including india these are very different things, not synonymous with each other.
    overall ET is a nice newspaper.
    thanksRecommend

  • harkol
    Nov 29, 2010 - 10:54PM

    on the Radia tapes, a scandal which, alone in its spread, is enough to eclipse Pakistan’s collective scams over 63 years

    This is a very accurate characterization. Radia tapes prove a lot of things.

    Govt’s are practically controlled by business interests, even while the people elect their representatives. Effectively, it doesn’t matter whom you elect the business co-opts them.
    Govt. agencies have little regard for right to privacy of individuals, along with other rights. They can selectively leak to tarnish reputations.
    The amounts involved are massive and no one is a holy cow.

    Indian Politicians are more corrupt than Pakistan in absolute terms if not in relative terms. The amounts involved are so massive. Even a minister in a state govt. can make more money than the PM/president of Pakistan. It is only the system that somehow lets India survive these crooks. i.e. The army wouldn’t cross the barracks, people won’t accept authoritarian ruler (eg. Indira Gandhi) thus every 5 years a election would be held and a new bunch will get in. The currency, interest rates etc. are left to RBI, thus ensuring some safety. Independent Media and courts ensuring some of the guilty are indeed punished – well once in a while.

    However, it isn’t true that Pakistani’s can’t comment in Indian media. I see Pakistani comments in sites which permit comments (Rediff, IE, IBNlive), though these comments are very low. Dunno, perhaps it is the sheer number of English literate internet surfers in India??Recommend

  • muhammed
    Nov 29, 2010 - 10:56PM

    I bet if pakistan is not a ticking time bomb nobody bothers to look at its direction . Only here we indians know anytime this bomb will be thrown at mumbai or delhi with this entire pakistan editorials spinning conspiracy stories how it was RAW ,RSS,VHP who stage managed this grenade thrown inside its house to blame innocent pakistan.. Second we indians are in CNN or Guardian ,Chinadaily and other news site for any political discussions too . Internet my friend makes world smaller and hence take this as a chance to know others and we indians take this chance to know about you and your culture which is good as it is a chance to share peace..

    Mark my words from your fellow brother in faith (Muslim) if you talk about trade ,commerce and good interaction with india for growth ,100s of indians will praise and share great camaraderie…

    Choose peace or piece for your life!Recommend

  • Asad Baig
    Nov 29, 2010 - 10:59PM

    Excellent article.I myself have been a victim that my comments were not posted in Times of India.I have hardly seen comments posted by Pakistani’s in Indian Newspapers over the years.
    We are way ahead of Indians in freedom of Expression as one can see many Indians writing in Dawn and Express Tribune.I salute these Two Newspapers for their openness and freedom.Recommend

  • harkol
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:03PM

    Just another thought – Indians are worried sick with what’s happening in Pakistan, for it has a big potential to upset the Indian progress. Don’t blame us for this. I started reading Pakistani newspapers only after 9/11 and related developments. I hope it is far fetched, but the rate at which we keep hearing ‘non-state actors’ committing the terrorism and non-sanctioned proliferation (what ever that meant) etc. One can’t blame us for worrying.Recommend

  • harkol
    Nov 29, 2010 - 11:18PM

    Cheema:

    India had 41.6% of its population classified as poor compared to Pakistan’s 17.2%

    This perhaps is true. The per capita of Pakistan in 2008 was indeed higher than that of India (though that seems to have changed in 2010).

    In fact, Pakistani per capita has been higher than that of India for most of past 60 years. The distribution of wealth in India in recent times is skewed, thus accounting for per-capita and poverty mismatch.

    After the well meaning and reasonably well executed land reforms in 1960/70s, we haven’t had any action that really targeted removing the inequalities. I have been against Indian spending on space programs and CWG kind of activities, when we have so many poor amongst us.

    However, saving grace is poverty and per-capita foreign debt in India has been reducing. Recommend

  • Ibrahim
    Nov 30, 2010 - 12:51AM

    Absolutely brilliant – balanced, intellectual and extremely well observed. This website seems to have an Indian cyber wing stalking it – gloaitng every time some of our negatives are discussed and generally blowing India’s trumpet.

    India has banned Pakistani channels, ads and perish the thought that any Pakistanir could write a regular column as openly as they can here.

    Well done for exposing this and doing so with such panache!Recommend

  • Nov 30, 2010 - 2:01AM

    A nice cup of chai!Recommend

  • Arijit Sharma
    Nov 30, 2010 - 4:18AM

    @Talha: “Who are these Indians and what do they want?”

    Modi fur Fuhrer !!Recommend

  • AHR
    Nov 30, 2010 - 9:57AM

    Mr. Ejaz your point has been proved in the comments section so easily. more than 50% of the Indian comments are dripping with superiority and condescension towards Pakistan and its associated ills. The ills that pervade us are nothing to be proud of but acting holier than thou is also not much appreciated. Good job! Recommend

  • harkol
    Nov 30, 2010 - 11:00AM

    Asad Baig:

    my comments were not posted in Times of India

    Time of India is a horrible tabloid like paper that’s rabidly anti-pakistan. It runs a campaign called ‘aman ki aasha’, but simultaneously does everything to vitiate the Indian Public Opinion against pakistan. Its sister TV channel, times now is an horrible example of what a TV channel shouldn’t do. Arnab Goswami invites guests, never lets them speak. If the guests are pakistani commentators then they are almost insulted! Wonder why guests even accept to be part of his show.

    While the newspapers (English and Vernacular) in India are critical of Pakistan, most aren’t rabidly anti-pakistan. Same is true of most pakistani english papers (Don’t know of vernacular ones).

    The reason I read Pakistani newspapers and even take the trouble to comment here is to give a Indian perspective to well meaning pakistanis.

    Sad if Mr. Haider thinks that’s CIRCUS.Recommend

  • harkol
    Nov 30, 2010 - 11:06AM

    AHR:

    The ills that pervade us are nothing to be proud of but acting holier than thou is also not much appreciated.

    Being critical of other’s fault and saying where things can be improved isn’t really acting holier than thou, as long as one is willing to accept the faults in their own system/country.

    Except the most rabid commentators, most Indians will be the first to admit that there are too many evils haunting us. Recommend

  • M. Ahmed
    Nov 30, 2010 - 11:27AM

    Born out of the ribs of India, we have got into the adolesence of statehood. Nation-building is a daunting task. We have no choice but to get there. And we will certainly get there. Hum hain Pakistani !

    According to Tofler in Third Wave, as the human race progressed the nomads became an agricultural society then industrial society and now the information society. We are a well informed society. Thanks to the world wide web.

    We have learnt the hardest way that debate, discussion, consensus, right to disagree, right to have an opinion and freedom of expression are the elements that build democracy.

    We will have to get rid of our social ills. Or else the world will keep pointing fingers at us. It is a challenge and our reputaion as a nation is at stake. As a nation we must seize the opportunity to say NO to all evil that damages our national life. We have to march toward prosperity. How long can we live on dole !

    Pakistan will have to emerge as a tolerant and muli-cultural society.Recommend

  • Tony Singh
    Nov 30, 2010 - 12:35PM

    @Author
    Before questioning why Indian response to the articles/newsitems/opinion, why do you write about them. Are they meant for
    1. Consumption of Pakistani readers? Then explain how for example writing about say “corruption in India” going to help them.
    2. To satisfy your own urge (or ego), then why publish them?
    3. Having an opinion about a particular sublect and letting people know about it? Then why do you expect others not to have a different take on subject and voice the same?
    Or do you assume that only people on your side of the border have an opinion? Get down from the Ivory tower you are sitting on friend, this is the world of internet and people will voice their opinion no matter what you think about themRecommend

  • Nov 30, 2010 - 1:20PM

    Amazing article… In their faces…Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Nov 30, 2010 - 2:15PM

    Amazing, all Pakistani commentators here are upbeat surprising. Please read the final few paras, he actually gives sweet coated bills. By reading all your (pakistani’s) comments, the author is dead right.

    Contrast this with the comments Pakistani readers pen, full of despondency, predicting doomsday scenarios, waiting for a deus ex machina, desiring a utopia, putting the onus of everything on the state while wishing for manna to descend from the Heavens

    I dont think, our pakistani friends would like to read the article again. :)Recommend

  • ashok sai
    Nov 30, 2010 - 2:44PM

    correction,

    sweet coated pillsRecommend

  • Tyrone
    Nov 30, 2010 - 2:59PM

    Ejaz,

    Your comments show that you know little about human behaviour as a science. Pavlov’s experiements are by far the most important as laying a base for the essential field of conditioing!

    He is the Father of classical conditioning the guy who ‘discovered’ the principle of reinforcement and reward used by educationists, HR people and business people alike among others!

    Pavlov received the Nobel prize in 1904 no mean feat wouldn’t you say?Recommend

  • G. Din
    Nov 30, 2010 - 5:49PM

    @M. Ahmed
    “…Pakistan will have to emerge as a tolerant and muli-cultural society.”
    We Indians wish and hope that, too. Best of luck and Godspeed!Recommend

  • Asad Baig
    Nov 30, 2010 - 7:18PM

    @harkol: Thanks for your comments and time.Recommend

  • Ajay Mittal
    Dec 1, 2010 - 2:39AM

    Here is a response to an interesting article by Mr Haider from a ‘Pavlovian’ Indian. We Indians are merely providing facts quite different from Pakistani view points, should not be surprising as we Indians and Pakistanis have not been able to achieve peace all these years, so it I sonly natural for us to have different view points….what is good is that Internet has provided a means for common Indians and Pakistanis to exchange thoughts.

    This doesn’t mean Indians won’t criticize India for its failures but compared to Pakistan where everything seems to be going wrong without any signs of imporvement, there is very little opportunity to criticize India. We Indians aren’t calling ourselves a power but the rest of the world is..and it is not just one country USA which wants to perhaps use us. Given an opportunity, I will criticize our inability to tackle grinding poverty & burgeoning population in 63 years, lack of bringing education to children in villages and not becoming a Singapore or South Korea, having some jokers as politicians. While Pakistan didn’t do anything at all in any of these areas, India at least tried but was not effective. In that sense India can be called a sub standard nation in comparison to the Western nations. So I hope I have criticized my country enough!Recommend

  • Ajay Mittal
    Dec 1, 2010 - 2:49AM

    There are a number of reasons we Indians frequent Pakistani news sites-
    *to get truth directly from the source,
    *Pakistani news sites have beaten Indian sites in quality, professionalism and presentation
    * its journalists write quality and analytical articles (although in almost all their analysis about Pakistani issues, the Pakistani writers seem to miss out on the core causes behind their problems making it even more interesting for s Indian to check on the latest status of problem analysis). Problem analysis apart, Pakistan is a constant soap opera 24/7…how can you blame Indians for not wanting to check out the latest– military trakeovers, blasts, fightin with both super powers (US and Russia) that only a country like Pakistan can afford to undertake then engaging in tricky negotiations with them to get out of tough spots, terrorist incidents across the world and then wringing their hands hoping that those somehow don’t get linked to Pakistan ….the list can go on infinitum.
    * Pakistan is our neighbor and just by virtue of being our neighbor, it is natural for Indians to b e interested in goings on inside Pakistan. Our newspapers do not provide quality coverage. But Pakistan is more than a neighbor….it wears its jealousy of India on its sleeve for last 63 years….talk about 1000 years war….we are smarter than Indians, 1 pakistani = 10 Indians; eventual victory and establishment of Islam on India; 3 wars initiated by Pakistan not to mention India specific armaments purchases and nukes with American money given in the first place by Americans for totally different reasons; I wont even mention training and sending terorrits in India because that is pretty old behavior which we Indians hav ekind of gotten used to, opposing India at every opportunity and constantly comparing itself with India even on corruption index…..things really get hilarious given that Pakistanis expected India to breakup because of it diversity and Pakistan to prosper because of it purity but with things quite the opposite, our Pakistani friends feel perplexed and are wondering what happened when the precise reasons are very clear to us Indians

    For me at least I find it very relaxing before end of day to visit Pakistani sites with a cup of chai. I don’t know but this has become a ‘bad’ habit. Recommend

  • ahmed shabir
    Dec 1, 2010 - 7:09AM

    @G. Din
    An Indian seeking a tolerant and multi-cultural society is hypocrisy at its best. You might like to take note of what’s happening in Kashmir or the North East. Or how the tribals and naxals are being killed and maimed.
    .
    Islamic extremists have influence in only the most remote part of Pakistan, which is the tribal belt. But look at India, its commercial capitals like Mumbai and Gujurat are in control of Hindu fanatics. Gujurat and Mumbai massacres took place in the most developed cities of India. If that is what a standard educated Indian is than shame on them for point fingers across the border. The sad truth is that minorities and lower caste hindus have no rights in India. Everyday you have news about minorities getting killed in organized riots etc.
    .
    A rising, secular india is a myth. At best it is an extremist brahmin state mired by poverty.Recommend

  • AHR
    Dec 1, 2010 - 9:39AM

    Harkol:
    “Being critical of other’s fault and saying where things can be improved isn’t really acting holier than thou, as long as one is willing to accept the faults in their own system/country”.

    Exactly. one should be willing to accept their own faults in their own system/ country but others need not make a profession of pointing out that all of the time. And I guess self-criticism is the best sort of criticism rather than being concerned with others shortcomings. I guess common courtesy is not to indulge in speculating about others matters all the time and don’t be too judgmental. One stray comment against human rights violations in India sets a barrage of defensive comments. So do to others what u wud like them to do to u :)Recommend

  • Waqas
    Dec 1, 2010 - 12:01PM

    @ Ajay Mittal

    The issue is that in Indian media gives more coverage to hawks, India haters and war mongerers on Pakistani side and we get more coverage of RSS, VHP, Bal Thakery and other hindu extremists. Actually this mindset is only shared by a minority population on both sides of the border. While majority is in favor of peaceful coexistence.

    The things you are mentioning about (Indian jealousy, 1000 year wars etc.) are not what majority of Pakistanis believe. Its like how many indians still believe that Pakistan is part of akhand Bharat and India needs to recapture this part to make one unified greater India which your holy books and texts refer to.

    Pakistan doesn’t have the capability, capacity, firepower, troops, arms and ammo etc to start invasion of Indian nor is it Pakistan’s objective or int its interest. Pak army has a defensive posture and our nuclear weapons are a deterrent against a possible Indian invasion. While India considers China a major adversary, it doesn’t have troops, tanks, artillery and missiles to hit China crossing over the Himalayas. Most of India’s guns, ammo and troops are stationed against and trained at Pakistan and is very much Pakistan specific. Recommend

  • Cherish Raj
    Dec 1, 2010 - 3:09PM

    Guys

    Indians feel even better after the latest round of leaks. Whatever Pakistanis say, perception matters. At least for the time being, before the whole set of wikileaks documents surface, India is feeling flattered especially because of the praise it receives from Pakistan’s ‘brotherly’ Muslim countries. Bahrain sees India’s emergence as a positive development and Mohammed bin Zayed (UAE defense minister) praises India’s democracy. Even Italy, Pakistan’s partner in opposing the expansion of the UNSC, is confident about the security of the Indian nukes ( together with that of Britain and France!). Now, our neighbors can keep on maligning us, but nobody seems to listen!Recommend

  • G. Din
    Dec 1, 2010 - 8:01PM

    @ahmed shabir
    Please read my post again. I was reacting to a Pakistani post and the country involved is Pakistan in both his and my posts. And my wishes and hopes were for Pakistan to get such a society!
    As far as the anti-Indian rant in your post goes, remind yourself that India is an acknowledged democratic and free society. Indians elect their governments and it is in extremely rare cases that those may be undone by the Constitution. Both those governments, you refer to, and others have been elected and reelected, no matter how distasteful it may be to your very high moral standards. Pakistanis have no vote in Indian elections. Even their sympathizers in India such as Arundhati Roys, Kuldip Nayyars, Jawed Naqvis and the like get just one vote each. The secessionists, too. A ballot booth is a very lonely place.
    In Pakistan, killing your Shia, Ahmadis, Qadhianis and other brothers is a favourite sport and the killing fields are their places of worship and the time is exactly when they are praying to their common God. I will not even speak about what you do to Hindus, Sikhs and Christians!
    As far as Mumbai and Gujarat “massacres” are concerned, let me assure you that hundreds of millions of Indians are proud of those. They may be called correctives to an aberrant behaviour. If there is a massacre in India, you can be sure that it is a retaliation for something as horrid as the Godhra Broasting of Hindu pilgrims before the Gujarat massacre; it is never initiated by Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis or Christians The only massacre we hang our heads in shame for is the Sikh pogrom that Hindu Congress zealot hoodlums enacted in Delhi after Indira Gandhi’s assassination. The hoodlum leaders of that pogrom are being prosecuted in courts of law. We will never get over that shame, however! Recommend

  • somedude
    Dec 2, 2010 - 5:10AM

    @Ejaz.. Though you may be right to a certain extent but there is no denying that misplaced priorities of pakistani citizens needs to be pointed out and corrected. Yes, I really mean it when I say citizens of pakistan because i believe that thought process in political and military leadership is predominantly influenced by people’s opinions and attitude. We (and many all over the world) cannot believe that people of pakistan cannot see through the current wave of social development and are somehow trapped in the shell of misguided notions about India. Indians are least interested in engaging pakistan militarily in future unless there are gross violations like 26/11.. Corruption, nepotism, scams cannot be avoided in huge country like india but that doesnt enable military to take over the government and doesnt stop political parties to concede defeat and step down every five years. Results of right attitude and developmental mindset are for everybody to see..Indians would even prefer that pakistan undergoes the same economic and social development and hence result in better trade between two countries. There is little(if none) benefit in missing this great opportunity just for the sake of securing a small piece of disputed land and some false sense of responsibility towards self-determination right of kashmiris. How can somebody put this in simplest language which an ordinary pakistani can understand….world will be thankful if somebody can – my pavlovian response.Recommend

  • Dec 8, 2010 - 9:02AM

    to all my Indian brother at the moment i just want to make one thing very clear i.e., about the religion and the state,i have always found people from Ur side asking Pakistanis to keep religion and state aside which i think is not a realistic approach as we as Pakistanis feel proud that Pakistan is an Islamic state and in an Islamic state religion cant be separated from state affairs.our source of law is Divine revelation so we have to consult our deen B/F any important decision and believe u me Islam doesn’t teaches us to be enemy with u ! instead it focuses on the good congenial and cordial relationship with the neighbors as a religious obligation. Ur constitution is secular while ours is based on Islam so if we are to go secular then there was no need to get a separate piece of land for Muslims ,i think Muslims are very much living there in India in peace,so while we struggled and found an Islamic state so we have the right to establish and practice Islam in all our matters. Islam is not a religion its a Deen this is the very point which causes confusion! Islam is a complete ideology of life whether its political,social,economic,personal,ethical or moral.so when we have some kind of superior constitution (Allah made) then what we need is just to apply and practice it in full spirit and results will come.Islam doesn’t even allow the killing of just one innocent person whether he is Muslim or Non Muslim and call it biggest sin!so how we can acknowledge 26/11,but respect for human life should be equitable bases in any part of world.i assure you you people absolutely need not to frightened about Islamic system,if once its established it will prove itself,u cant call the reign of Taliban as an Islamic Govt as a result it proved FIASCO . i personally apologies for any one of my word if it is hurting or based on hatred for any one, slam to all and peace to all!Recommend

  • Anoop
    Dec 8, 2010 - 12:47PM

    @Mudassar Nawaz,

    Thank you for your kind reply. I completely understand the way you feel and why you feel that way.

    But, I’d like to point out that all Religions encourage progress and tolerance. Pakistan with its Islamic Constitution will not help achieving tolerance and will not ensure safety of its minorities. For example, Aasia Bibi would not have been put in jail on death row just because a Mullah complained against her. Not even the Supreme Court can save her or get out of jail for a crime which does harm to no one and probably she has not committed. If she has she must be put in a Mental Institution, not jail. Only a Mentally Unbalanced person will in an Islamic country come and speak against a Prophet.

    Let culture emphasize forgiveness,especially for crimes which in effect harm no one. Recommend

  • maera
    Dec 8, 2010 - 5:15PM

    Ejaz Sb Great article.. the circus continues :)Recommend

  • Dec 9, 2010 - 10:55AM

    @ Anoop!
    sir,u are right that every religion encourages tolerance and peace and same is the case with Islam,but as far as separation of the religion and constitution is concerned even if The Pakistani constitution is declared secular the circumstances will remain unchanged as majority people here would never tolerate any kind of blasphemy or any sort of law making which oversees the sharia !
    as far as asia bibi is concerned i feel sorry for her,i cannot understand why she is blamed for blasphemy whereas the fact is she is merely a laborer,why did she feel the dire need to speak ill about Prophet(S.A.W) where she knew that she would not be forgiven for that,that is really a strange scenario,
    but again this is a judicial decision and only another judicial can resolve the problem.as far as public sentiments are concerned they are against asia bibi due to the fact that very recently america sentenced Dr Afia Siddique while there was great protest against her punishment not even in PAK but also in America,people here felt great sorrow for her and it shows the real injustice against the weak around the world,so in the retaliation of DR Afia’s Decision people don’t want to see asia bibi free . they anticipate it as american interference in our state affairs .

    just take another example why ajmal qasab felt the need to attack Mumbai,dint he know that he could not come back alive??u will never forgive him for that.but,here our people will say that he is hanged just because he is a Muslim,a member of the minority,so, i just want to make it clear that public sentiments cant every time affect a decision,
    Alhamdulillah our courts are working freely,asia bibi has been declared guilty by session court,still high court and supreme courts are ahead her well wishers should consult these higher courts to prove her innocents and i’m sure that court will work without taking any sort of pressure!
    i appreciate always ur kind words and wishes!
    regardsRecommend

  • Tony Singh
    Dec 10, 2010 - 12:59PM

    @maera and others
    The author was on NDTV the other day discussing Wikileaks with Barkha Dutt. I think the bloke found the bone too tempting to refuse. Case of pot calling the cattle blackRecommend

  • AJAY
    Dec 10, 2010 - 5:40PM

    Finally sum-one was desperate for Indian COMMENTS. Recommend

  • sharjeel khan
    Dec 17, 2010 - 8:45PM

    @Taimur
    yeah, the same happened with me so i stopped reading TOI and switched to express tribune, its way better i found,,
    @cheema
    TOI is not a fair or unbiased media org. i also had same problem with them. thats why i switched to express tribuneRecommend

  • Kunwar
    Dec 25, 2010 - 11:33PM

    Just shows the extent to which the small little country of Pakistan is obsessed with India.Recommend

  • sharjeel+khan
    Dec 26, 2010 - 7:18PM

    @Kunwar
    pakistan is 36 th largest country is terms of land area in world( there are more than 200 countries in world for your kind information),,,,,,Recommend

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