Unprovoked firing: Deaths mount as BSF shells Pak villages
The death toll from Indian Border Security Force (BSF)’s unprovoked firing and shelling at Pakistani villages has risen to 12 as two more civilians, including a woman, were killed on Thursday morning.
The recent casualties were reported from Sialkot’s Charwa sector’s Rar village, situated near Harpal.
In violation of the ceasefire agreement, India’s BSF has continuously been using light-to-heavy cannons to target Pakistani territories in Charwa, Harpal, Bajwat, Charpar, Shakargarh and other sectors along the working boundary mostly situated in the jurisdiction of district Sialkot of Pakistan’s Punjab.
According to Rangers officials, the number of injured rose to 50 on Thursday as the BSF resorted to unprovoked shelling and fired more than 150 mortars in Charwa Sector.
Due to India’s recent aggression, two Pakistanis, including Muhammad Azam — a resident of Rar village which falls in the jurisdiction of Charwa sector — was killed while a woman and three other Pakistani civilians sustained wounds.
On the other hand, as many as 12 Pakistanis were injured when the Indian forces started firing at villages of Sargala, situated near Narowal. More villages including Nangal Takhar Pur, Karol and Dera Kangra have also been affected by the shelling.
Sources said till date at least 70,000 Pakistanis — mostly residents of 13 villages situated on or near the working boundary — have been affected, while about 20,000 people have been forced to temporarily migrate to escape firing.
As many as 120 educational institutions situated near the border areas remained closed on Thursday due to continuous Indian shelling.
Published in The Express Tribune, October 10th, 2014.
COMMENTS (35)
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@LogicalThinker: My point was to tell the readers that Modi is an extremist Hindu who is even against some concessions granted to Kashmiris in Article 370 of your Constitution. This man can lead the Sub-continent into a full scale war wherein both the warring parties are nuclear armed nations. My second point was that being a democracy India loses nothing if it holds a plebiscite in the occupied Kashmir rather such a move will raise the Indian head in the international community. You can't compare Durand Line with LoC because the people of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and FATA have voted for joining Pakistan in a referendum held there in 1946 under the British government at Centre while the same province was being ruled by Congress through Doctor Khan Saheb during the time of referendum; meaning to say it was a free and fair referendum accepted by Jawahar Lal Nehru and other parties involved. Can India follow this example of Pakhtuns' referendum of 1946? Furthermore UN has accepted Durand Line as legitimate boundary between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Please be apprised that Durand Line is a soft border where Pakhtuns on both sides freely cross this borders in thousand on daily basis.Please bear in mind that more Pakhtuns are living in Pakistan than Afghanistan enjoying very good positions in politics coupled with high positions holders' Pakhtuns in civil and military bureaucracy in Pakistan. By the way I am myself a true typical Pakhtun loving my country Pakistan.
1. When Modi was contesting the elections recently, he raised the slogan to abrogate Article 370 (which in fact he can’t as per the Article 368 and 370 of Indian Constittion as well as Articel 147 of J & K Constitution). What has any of the stuff you have just mentioned got to do with the issues I have raised. You seem to be rambling on about Article 370 which has nothing to do with internationalizing the Kashmir dispute. Merely bringing up dates and numbers does nothing to bolster your argument. You have not countered my premise by even raising one valid argument and seem to be missing the point. Article 370 is an internal matter dealing with autonomous powers for Kashmir and has nothing to do with the UN resolution. Period.
Secondly Modi was involved in the massacre of Gujrati Muslims. This means such an extremist Hindu PM can put the life of well over one billion people at risk. So you have to see this shelling campaign in the light of these facts. Listen, Modi has been acquitted by the Supreme Court of India so unless you know something that the honorable court doesn't, I suggest you keep your baseless thoughts to yourself. Secondly, are you implying a connection between the riots in Gujarat with the situation in Kashmir ? Seriously ? Similarly, I could make wild allegations linking the independence movement of Baluchistan with Kashmir. Your arguments are not logical and seem to be random. Once again, I ask you to not conflate different issue as you seem to be doing.
1. Yes under UN Security Council Resolution # 91; the whole of the State has to be demilitarized and even a UN personality was named to hold plebiscite in Kashmir but the Indians never cooperated with him. When Pakistan Joined CEATO and SENTO in 1950s; Nehru backed out of plebiscite on the pretext that Pakistan had then become an Ally of USA. These are stories of a long serial which is the Conflict of Kashmir. It has to be solved, how this the time will decide. This resolution clearly states that Pakistan withdraw from the areas of Pakistan-administered Kashmir which it had captured in 1947 immediately and conditions be created for a free and impartial plebiscite to decide the future of the state. The Indian Army should also withdraw and maintain a skeletal force to ensure proper functioning of the civil affairs of the state after satisfactory withdrawal of Pakistani tribesmen and forces. Nothing more, nothing less. All other points you have raised is moot and meaningless. As a legal expert that is all that matters. Period. Note: The massive displacement of the Kashmiri pundit population due to systemic attacks from mujahideen organisations does not create ideal conditions for a plebiscite which is one of the conditions.
1. No boundary called LINE in this context can be accepted as International borders and such lines have to be demolished which divide the same nation in two parts with no contact even between the real relatives. So your argument thus qualifies for null and void. A boundary may not be acceptable to you but is acceptable to the Indian government and its citizens as long as it keeps out unwanted elements from across the border. You and your countrymen are more than entitled to your opinions just as the Indians are entitled to their opinions on this subject matter. Once again, it may be null and void according to you but is perfectly fine for the Indians and other legal experts. Also some introspection may be in need - case in point the Durrand Line. Try convincing the Afghans not to have a boundary and see the response you get.
PS: Once again, big thanks to the editors at ET for facilitating this debate. The more we have such interactions, the better the understanding between the various parties involved. Peace to all.
@LogicalThinker: yes sir very good that you did use good words unlike other Indians who are using the language you know better than me. Now please listen: - 1. Indian Constitution Article-370 was promulgated in in 1950 (perhaps Jan 26) and it was enforced in 1954. This Article can't be amended as per Indian Constitution Article 368 and the the Indian Occupied J & K Constitution Article-147. This Article 370 grants specail status to Indian occupied J & K and rights of PR (Permanent Residents) to the original people of Occupied J & K. When Modi was contesting the elections recently, he raised the slogan to abrogate Article 370 (which in fact he can't as per the Article 368 and 370 of Indian Constittion as well as Articel 147 of J & K Constitution). Secondly Modi was involved in the massacre of Gujrati Muslims. This means such an extremist Hindu PM can put the life of well over one billion people at risk. So you have to see this shelling campaign in the light of these facts. 2. Yes under UN Security Council Resolution # 91; the whole of the State has to be demilitarized and even a UN personality was named to hold plebiscite in Kashmir but the Indians never cooperated with him. When Pakistan Joined CEATO and SENTO in 1950s; Nehru backed out of plebiscite on the pretext that Pakistan had then become an Ally of USA. These are stories of a long serial which is the Conflict of Kashmir. It has to be solved, how this the time will decide. 3. No boundary called LINE in this context can be accepted as International borders and such lines have to be demolished which divide the same nation in two parts with no contact even between the real relatives. So your argument thus qualifies for null and void.
@Ali:
So, how does the "behind" feel right now?
Why are Indians using Muslim names to make anti pakistan comments here..guys get off your twitter/facebook fake accounts hangover..BE REAL Tribune is giving u all rights to sledge pakistanis then why use bogus names.
@Muhammad Shoaib: The Indian Constitution Article-370 is not applicable on UN Security Council. I don't think anyone in their right frame of mind would equate a resolution passed in the UN security council with Article 370. Both resolutions deal with completely different issues and should have no bearing on the discussion whatsoever. You seem to be conflating two issue which have nothing in common.
Similarly The UN is still maintaining its Military Observers’ group called UNMOGIP (UN Military Observers’ Group for India and Pakistan) which is a manifestation of Jammu & Kashmir being an International issue and still recognized as disputed territory by the UN. Furthermore, the boundary between J&K and Pakistan is called as working Boundary and Line of Control (LOC) and not as International boundary which simply means that it is disputed territory and its borders have yet to be defined in the light of UN Security Council Resolution# 91
I sincerely believe that India is fine with this arrangement as the UNMOGIP is a toothless organisation which carries little, if no weight in the larger scheme of things. This is not the sort of "internationalization" that India is worried about. The last thing India would want is for the US, EU, China, Russia and other Arab states advocating for or against Kashmir as has been the case for a number of international conflicts.
@Pakistani: Hi.. U r callign Musaraf..i think ur memory is very less or u r not truely patriotic intelligent pak.. I am proud indian.. Just read again how pak soldier killed by indian soldier in kargil ,but due to musaraf there body even not taken by them or give proper honour as being soldier kos of Musaraf.. Please listen the telephonic conversation between musaraf and army personal during kargil which was released by Indian intelligence agency ..India is a peacefull secular country .. We respect all religions here..may be some incidents happend which we alwys protest.. and see pakistan this is islamic country ..hindus /shiks who were around 20 % during 1947 ..now negligible..either flew or forcefully converted ..u propot kasmiri terrorist ... now Pakistan is attacked by his own talibani terrorist.. Hindu religios book Geeta says that if u think to harm others u will be harmed ..same thing happend with U people.. We are not bothered about Pakistan..we need growth..but if pakistan army attacked our Border ..Modi says that our Army will retaliate twice..Now u have started firing ..end will be done indian.. please read indian media or BBC/ CNN ..so u will know about unbiased message.. see during 1971.. huge pakistani was killed ..but ur media did not inform correct picture..during Kargil also as per indian media ..more than 4000 pak soldier dead.. same this time also u cehck how many people killed over there..in ur side.in india ..12 person killed ..all r civilian..
US rules the skies in pakistan with there drones,India rules the border of pakistan with there guns.
i am a punjabi from indian side & feel deeply connected with punjab on either side. we need to see Indo Pak confrontation in a broader perspective. its a big ploy by United states (arm supplier) & politicians on both sides who hoard their ill gotten money in US.
US sells arms costing 500 crores at sale price of 25,000 crores every year. out of 25,000 crores ….. 5,000 crores is paid as bribe to politicians & army generals, who keep it in US or its allied countries (back to US) gives our countries aid of 10,000 crores ….. where again bribe of almost 50%is cornered by politicians & hoarded back in US still makes clean profit of almost 10,000 crores each side + hoarded money in nutshell US & our politicians playing smart & we brothers on both sides losing to our egos.
@Muhammad Shoaib You are followers of Goeble and Chankiya, so such accusations from you are very much expected. These accusations also indicate that it was India which purposely violated the cease fire agreement of 2033 to implement the Hindu extremism manifesto of BJP
Talk about making wild assumptions about what Indians may or may not follow. You seem to living in an alternate reality and have been listening to too much of Zaid Hamid. I have raised perfectly valid observations and facts in making my argument while you have made wild accusations which even a 5 year old child can whip up with no basis whatsoever. If you want any serious observer to take your accusations seriously, you need to back them up with some sound reasoning or at least a plausible cause. What you have uttered is beyond the realms of reality.
Since India claims to be the biggest democracy on Earth, it must hold a referendum in J&K to seek the confidence and willingness of Kashmiris to choose their choice of living with either Pakistan or India.
This argument is easy to reject as it is one based on false facts and pure emotion. Any constitutional expert knows that for the UN referendum to take place both India and Pakistan need to completely demilitarize parts of Kashmir which they currently occupy. As far as one can tell, I do not see neither India nor Pakistan vacating their current positions. So, next time before you start screaming that India needs to hold on to its promise of a plebiscite, be aware of the what the law states, the very UN law you hold dear.
PS: Only on ET can you have an intellectual debate of such nature. Kudos to ET.
@Pakistani: The defeated general of Kargil? Lol you are funny. Bring it on
As usual the Pakistan Army is hiding the truth about casualties. An army source confirmed that three hundred Pakistanis died in these cross exchanges. Surprisingly, the Pakistan Army ordered villagers to vacate their houses two days before starting these shelling.
@AhsanAusaf Ali: Kuch bhi. First get your facts correct. 1000 ppl died in Gujrat clashes.
What is the difference between the people of India and Pakistan? India is secular, Pakistan by and large has one religion, in all other respects, they have lived together for well over 10,000 years as one people sharing the same taste in food, music, culture, marriages and environment. The only people who benefit out of their mutual hostility are the Chinese, US and EEC; the people who benefit from the two countries living together in peace are the poor people of both countries, more so for Pakistanis. When will we have the kind of leadership in both countries (In India the PM and in Pakistan the Military Leadership as the elected PM in Pakistan is subservient to the unelected Military Leadership) who would forget the popular hostility against each other and create an economic common market like EEC where people can live, travel and work as they wish in both countries? (Siva Sena who digs cricket pitches ahead of every Pakistani visit not being part of the BJP alliance is not a bad thing)
@Naeem Khan: What is the difference between the people of India and Pakistan? India is secular, Pakistan by and large has one religion, in all other respects, we have lived together for well over 10,000 years as one people sharing the same taste in food, music, culture, literature, marriages and environment. The only people who benefit out of our mutual hostility are the Chinese, US and EEC; the people who benefit from the two countries living in peace are the poor people of both countries, more so the Pakistanis I reckon. When will we have the kind of leadership in both countries (In India the PM and in Pakistan the Military Leadership as the elected PM in Pakistan is subservient to the unelected Military Leadership) who would forget the popular hostility against each other and create an economic common market like EEC where people can live, travel and work as they wish in both countries?
I request Pakistan govt to Please Release Musharraf as he knows how to deal with India! Miss you Musharraf!
@Ali: India Never attacked from behind. It is Pakistan which attacks from behind. The Proof being Mumbai Terror Attacks. As long as the people of pakistan don't change you are confined to your miserable destiny. See how the world is moving ahead, you lag behind begging US and Middle East countries for your survival. When will you become self reliant. You hide terrorists, you hide most wanted criminals of India, what for?
Those who comment here have to understand that India is a big powerful country and we are fighting with an elephant.They can squeeze us to a stone age if they want.So if we remain calm ultimately they will not attack us and we should not push any jihadi to the border as it will create more damage to us.
ET, according to GP, I mean G Parthasarthy, there have been many rangers who have died on Pakistani side, which is not being reported by IsPr.
Remember 1971, when ISPR announced that it will fight till death, while in truth your army had already surrendered?
This time also ISPR is not giving you the real picture. The death toll of both military and civilians on Pakistani side is being under reported.
@Ali: @Asif: @AhsanAusaf Ali: @Neighbour: @Naeem Khan:
I see too much frustration and too many lies in your comments.
However, the next time Pakistan breaks up like in 1971, and you ask the question who is responsible, look in the mirror.
@LogicalThinker: Now see the answers to your questions: - 1. *Is this Pakistan’s strategy to internationalize the Kashmir issue* ? This conflict was internationalized in 1947/48 in 1951 by the United Nation Security Council; see UN Security Council Resolution# 80 and 91-these resolutions are still valid and these have never been declared null and void. The Indian Constitution Article-370 is not applicable on UN Security Council. Youused Sheikh Abdulla as puppet in 1974 to abide by this Article 370. Similarly The UN is still maintaining its Military Observers' group called UNMOGIP (UN Military Observers' Group for India and Pakistan) which is a manifestation of Jammu & Kashmir being an International issue and still recognized as disputed territory by the UN. Furthermore, the boundary between J&K and Pakistan is called as working Boundary and Line of Control (LOC) and not as International boundary which simply means that it is disputed territory and its borders have yet to be defined in the light of UN Security Council Resolution# 91. 2. If this is Pakistan’s strategy of pushing in more fighters across the Line of Control ? You are followers of Goeble and Chankiya, so such accusations from you are very much expected. These accusations also indicate that it was India which purposely violated the cease fire agreement of 2033 to implement the Hindu extremism manifesto of BJP. Since India claims to be the biggest democracy on Earth, it must hold a referendum in J&K to seek the confidence and willingness of Kashmiris to choose their choice of living with either Pakistan or India. This referendum will ensure peace in the densely populated South Asia and people of both countries will prosper as the financial resources will then be diverted from keeping large standing armies and purchasing military hardware from abroad.
India never fires without provocation. As always it has been initiated by Pakistani's.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/pakistan-ceasefire-violation-how-it-all-started/1/395025.html
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-loc-ceasefire-pakistan-rangers-shelled-almost-the-entire-192-km-border-overnight-2024707
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-pakistan-again-violates-ceasefire-in-3-sectors-along-border-bsf-gives-strong-reply-2024541
May good sense prevail & Pakistan stops otherwise from independence to Kargil, they have suffered due to their politicians. Indian public is strongly in support of Modi & his actions they will enjoy the carnage.
Dear friends I am a citizen of your brotherhood country INDIA, well as i read your view, so i got something to say, Both countries are not in favor of creating disturbances in each others country, Pak saying India is violating the ceasefire, and india saying its Pak who is doing that. Well... Allow me to put my views about this, I think both country should declare no cease fire violation for at least a week, There should not be any bullet firing on that particular week from each country. Now in that week, a meeting should be held between defense ministry and PMs to tackle those issues. so All that is to be done a call for 'NO bullets week' 'No unpleasant Activity Across the Border' that will decide the discussions of issues and how to normal the environment around the borders. I love both countries, and we should be one to deal with the on growing technology like in the developed countries and save the humanity with the objective of spreading peace in each other country
@harkol: Oh My God, really?!!
@Naeem Khan: Increased ceasefire violation from Pakistan is routine at this time of the years to push in jihadis before winter sets in. The difference is that unlike the same time last year, there is a different government and it is not holding back the Indian armed forces from retaliating.
With top business leaders from the world coming to India every other week, the escalation on LOC and International Border does not suit India Which is trying to scale up growth from the sub 5% growth in the last 2 years. But sometimes you have to show you are prepared to fight in order to win the peace and that is what Modi is doing.
What Nawaz Sharif does or does not do is irrelevant. You kow as well as I that Pakistan's securi ty policies as well as forign policy towards India is controlled by the Pakistani army.
India has and always will remain an immature bully. Time to teach them a lesson once and for all.
what else can we expect from a nation who's prime minister slaughtered 5000 muslims :p
From our point of view BSF is a brutal barbaric killer force which only can flex there muscle on unarmed civilian people. When it come to military standoff the always failed miserably (2001 Bangladesh Border, 2010-2014 Chine Border & now at Pak Border)
Pakistan army miscalculated in 1965, 1972 and 1998. War serves no purpose. But, even pacifist nation like India, can hardly sit quite when repeated attacks are made. Hope Pakistan gains control of its own army, where its been a case of tail wagging the dog so far.
Indians being the cowards they are, always take advantage of Pakistan's internal situations. They know Pakistan army is involved western front, so they can't miss this opportunity. Even after 1971 and Siachin, Pakistan still has not understood that India always attacks from behind.
Just read Pakistan where India appears and news might still be valid
Is this Pakistan's strategy to internationalize the Kashmir issue ? If so, I must say that Pakistan is going about this the wrong way. America, EU, Russia and China have made multiple statements indicating that they will stay away from getting involved with the Kashmir issue.
If this is Pakistan's strategy of pushing in more fighters across the Line of Control ? If yes, I guess there may be some merit in the non-stop shelling. I, for one, would not know how effective the shelling would be in pushing in the mujahideen as the Indians have significantly improved their security along the front lines.
I am still wondering as to why the Indians would be interested in starting a conflict when they have more to lose than gain. The way I see it, Indians seem to be retaliating more to signal to the Pakistani establishment that the new Modi led government will not hold back.
PS: An interesting development that caught my attention was that most of the villages along the forward posts of Pakistani occupied Kashmir were evacuated a few weeks before the shelling began.
What happened to the slogan. "we are awake while you sleep." looks like it is other way now people are awake while army sleeping. Now brothers will say they need approval from the government to retaliate. They don't need approval when it is for their own self interest but need it when it comes to safeguard the borders. Or we shall wait for another corps commander conference in which God knows they play ludo.
Modi is fishing in troubled waters and PM Sharif does not have the political will or gumption to retaliate. India wants Pakistan to engage in a calculated war of attrition and wants to escalate because Army is pre-occupied in the Tribal Areas of Pakistan. What I don't understand is why NS is silent on these deliberate violations of India, does he really thinks that Modi will come around and negotiate a political settlement of the outstanding issues between the two countries. On the other hand we will not be surprised that some of the Pakistani Taliban has invited Indians to create mischief on the eastern order to divert attention of them. When country is not stable politically then the outsiders will create problems and specially India, let us not forget that it was India which crossed international borders in East Pakistan and then in West Pakistan in 1971. India was never friend of Pakistan and never will be, the only way to deal with India is to be strong enough militarily and politically. India should make no mistake that Pukhtuns and Baluchis will be in the forefront to defend their country Pakistan, if they want war then they should get it and see the will of the Pakistanis.