No place for Ahmadi body in a Muslim graveyard

Published: November 2, 2010
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Interred body of an Ahmedi exhumed from a Muslim graveyard after protests held against the burial.

Interred body of an Ahmedi exhumed from a Muslim graveyard after protests held against the burial.

BHALWAL: Interred body of an Ahmadi was exhumed here on Sunday from a Muslim graveyard after some local clerics led protest against the burial and the Sargodha tehsil police forced the dead man’s heirs to remove it from the graveyard.

Shehzad Waraich, who died on October 30, was a resident of Chak 24 North.

Shehzad’s brother told The Express Tribune that several members of the family including his grandparents and parents were buried in the same graveyard. He said there never had been any objection or disapproval.

He said that their families were the only two Ahmadi families in Bhalwal, a town with a population of only a few thousands. Chaks 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24 have three government graveyards, shared by the residents of the area, he said.

He said that the people of his village, Chak 24 North, had not objected to his brother’s burial in the Chak 19 graveyard, so he had buried the body there. “Some of our elders are also buried there, we decided to bury him in the same graveyard,” he added. Waraich’s body was buried in the Chak 19 graveyard on the morning of October 30.

He said that on October 31, Sadar Division SHO Azhar Yaqoob and DSP Ghulam Murtaza came to their village along with other police officials and asked his family to remove the body of his brother from the Muslims graveyard of Chak 19.

“I told him that our elders were all buried in the graveyard. Neither the people of my village, nor of Chak 19 had raised any objection,” he said.

He said that the police told him that some local clerics in Sargodha had objected to the burial and in the interest of law and order, asked him to remove the body of his younger brother.

He said that the family, some relatives and the police then exhumed the body from the graveyard on Sunday.

“I don’t think that the police were forced to do this. The way I see it, the police forced us.”

Saleemul Din, an Ahmadi community spokesman condemned the police action. He said, “To this day, 30 Ahmadis’ bodies have been exhumed for similar reasons. The police do have no right to humiliate the dead from our community like this. Yet, they have been doing it since 1984.”

Sadar Division DSP Ghulam Murtaza said that some clerics had approached him and asked him to remove the body. He said that they had threatened him with protest movement against the police if the body of the Ahmadi man was not exhumed. In view of the sensitivity of the situation, he said, he did his best to resolve the matter peacefully by ordering the removal the body from the graveyard.

Published in The Express Tribune, November 2nd, 2010.

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Reader Comments (171)

  • Abdul Ali
    Nov 2, 2010 - 9:36AM

    the act on the part of clerics is what father of nation warned at the inception of this land-Pakistan that “we are not going to create a country where priest rule with divine mission in their hands”.The Quaid’s warning has been forgotten and we have reached to this impasse.What police stand for “to protect live,property and peaceful existence of its citizen.What uses the police has if its has to take instructions from molvis and mualanas,why not then let them to carry out their whims and wills in the first place.what is need of using law enforcement agency gloves in hand of seminaries.I am flabbergasted where it has been mentioned Ahemdi has not to be buried adjacent to Muslim,after all the whole earth belongs to Allah shared equally by believers and non.believers.This incident also highlights the negation of Quaid’s quest for separate land where the inhabitants will freely practice their belief without any fear.I am Muslim but do not endorse view of tunnel vision interpretation of Islam done by mediocre so-called religious people.I urge Asma Jehangir to act on this iniquitous treatment meted out to minorities on human ground. Recommend

  • Realist
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:28AM

    Who advised them to bury their dead in a Muslim graveyard? After all how many Christians (another non Muslim minority) do we see burying their dead in a Muslim graveyard or vice versa?Recommend

  • SS
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:29AM

    shame shame Recommend

  • Nov 2, 2010 - 10:33AM

    I would like to ask what authority the local police has to exhume a body without a court order or without a due concern for the family’s right to due process of the law.

    The way I see it, police are making up their laws as they go along, and acting as prosecutors and judges all by themselves.

    For example where do SHO Azhar Yaqoob and DSP Ghulam Murtaza draw their authority from “to resolve the matter” on their own and “ordering the removal the body from the graveyard” without and a court oversight.

    I say the answer lies elsewhere; the police officials are religious bigots themselves.

    The police has clearly broken the laws in this case by, 1) illegally digging up of human remains, 2) illegal handling of human remains, and 3) disregard for public health safety in exhumation of the corpse

    Is there any legal professional, a CJ for example, who can lookup the law on this.Recommend

  • Ali Arslan
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:40AM

    Its acts like these that make a persons blood boil. Who are these people to determine who can be buried where, it is not them who decide or judge. Leave it to HIM to judge.

    I dont know how to express the anger at this point in time after reading about this shameful act.Recommend

  • farnis
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:56AM

    Shame on us and we call ourself as Muslims. How can we as a nation tolerate and if we will tolerate things like this then we are living in a jungle where whoever has a little power they do what ever they want to do and we do nothing about this,it seems that the way to live now is for every man for himself.If we do not maintain any Law and Order then we beasts of jungleRecommend

  • Adil
    Nov 2, 2010 - 11:37AM

    This act might appear to be inhumane and shameful. Agreed, because a corpse demands respect and once it has been interred, it should not be subjected to any degradation susequently.

    But amidst all of this emotion, we conveniently forget the facts and not dig into the issue. If Muslims react in such a manner towards Ahmadis, there is a reason to it. And that reason is the violation by them of an essential condition of Islam (and a few others as well) being the finality of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as the last messenger of Allah. This condition is equivalent in significance to the Muslim proclamation of faith, or the kalima, which if not subscribed to results in ejection from the fold of Islam.

    There are sets of conditions one must agree to and abide by if one is to join or remain part of any group in this world. A universal practice. If u don’t agree to any, you are more than welcome to leave it. The Ahmadis want to be in a win-win situation; violate the condition of a group and yet be part of it.

    The Muslims only demand one thing, agree to the condition whole-heartedly and be brothers in the faith or leave it. They cannot be allowed to violate the fundamentals of a religion and yet move around in its garb.

    Unfortunately, burial of an Ahmadi or a Christian next to a Muslim makes no difference, because technically they are not Muslims. And behold, im not the one deciding who is a Muslim and who is not, this is an agreed decision (Ijma) of Islamic scholars.Recommend

  • roshan zamir
    Nov 2, 2010 - 12:11PM

    what are we???????
    Shameless bunch of religious bigots…………hypocrites………Recommend

  • Shakil Ahmed
    Nov 2, 2010 - 12:22PM

    Did any one give me an example where a Muslim burried in the graveyard of Christions. I don’t think any one can.

    So the Ahmedis are Not Muslim according the law of Pakistan and how could a muslim allow a non muslim to be at their graveyard.

    In addition to above, Please note that the Ahmedi’s has opposed beleifs against Muhammad Peice Been Upon Him , so we as Muslims hate them. Not only this, there are alleged prove of involvement of Ahmedi’s in the assassinations of Various Ulma -e- Karam including Hazrat Mufti Saeed Ahmed Jalalpur Sb.

    Please do not close your eyes just on the name of Modernization and Keep in mind the Ahmedi’s Are not Muslim.

    Regards
    Shakil AhmedRecommend

  • Nov 2, 2010 - 12:34PM

    Jewish graveyards don’t allow non-jewish burials either. As per law of the land, Ahmedis are not muslims and cannot expect burial in a ‘muslim graveyard’. Govt should give Ahmedis land for their own graveyards. Psuedo-liberals should go play with the traffic or take their moral outrage elsewhere.Recommend

  • Haider Zaidi
    Nov 2, 2010 - 12:42PM

    At least according to the pakistani Law, Ahmadi’s are non muslims and they have to have thier own graveyards as any other non muslim entity. the reason for this “shamefull” (as people are calling it) is that there were no enforcement of this law or principle in the first place that these people burried their dead in the muslim graveyard. the thing that makes it look bad that its the mullahs (bad guys) who pointed it out. if it wasnt for the district administration, who should have provided these ahmadis with thier own graveyard, these mullahs had no reason to become the good samartians, which they are certainly not. i dont think anyone should over react about the exhuming and reburial as it happens all the time for other reasons as well. but i do think that the police and local administration should have provided these people with the means to burry their people somewhere else than the muslim graveyard and it is something wrong that has happened to this family. i hope the responsible offices take necassary steps in order not to repeat this incident in the future and also to save mulim graveyards from these non muslim dead bodies.Recommend

  • Irfan
    Nov 2, 2010 - 12:54PM

    Hmmm, do they (ahmedis) allow muslims to be buried in their graveyard?Recommend

  • Nov 2, 2010 - 1:56PM

    @ Haider Zaidi
    Mr. can you tell us when did God give you the stamp to stamp people with, for who is muslim and who is not ???
    :
    It’s people like you who have brought this country to the brink of collapse, it’s the mindset like you who transform the teenagers into IEDs/suicide bombers.
    :
    I feel pathetic to read another so called muslim writing things like you. All that matters is to be a Pakistani, as we are not arabs. And mr. if you like to so pious muslim, so to Saudi arabi, the prophet was born there so that land is more pure, fo we can’t and will neevr let Pakistan to become an arab country. We, as Pakistani muslims, love Ahmadis, for they are Pakistanis and that matters. Recommend

  • A
    Nov 2, 2010 - 2:36PM

    @haider
    ever occur to you that the law declaring ahmedis as non muslims was unjust as well? what right does the state have to declare anyone as non muslims regardless of their faith? only because you demand that it be done so? if you accept that principle then what’s to stop the state declaring ismailis, shias, sufis etc as non muslim as well? Recommend

  • Saad Durrani
    Nov 2, 2010 - 2:47PM

    An Ahmedi has a constitutional right to be buried on a graveyard of its own. Would you react the same if a Muslim was buried in a Christian graveyard in a Christian-dominated country? This is nothing but a sensationalized story.Recommend

  • Hina
    Nov 2, 2010 - 2:59PM

    shame on you pakistan, my people make me sick!
    they wont even leave the dead-ones in peace! digusting people!
    may allah guide you to the right path and may you stop using religion as a weapon for your dirty tricks! aameenRecommend

  • Nadeem
    Nov 2, 2010 - 3:04PM

    Mr. Haider Zaidi !
    Pakistani Law is not a Godly rule and law…….. We have confusions for the terms “non-muslim”, “non-believer”, “kaafir”, “mushrik”. “be-deen” etc. Mind it that all “non-muslims” are NOT “non-believers” and “kaafir”, although “non-believers” are also the same superior-most creation of God. To believe or not to believe is a separate issue and God ordered all prophets not to be harsh with non-believers.
    As far as the term “mushrik” is concerned, a lot of “muslims” practice “shirk” in daily lives. But we are used to label “mushriks” to all “non-muslims” although they believe in Oneness of God. If Pakistani (and some other muslim countries) law declares Ahmadis as “non-muslims” we should not have any abhorence and hatred for them, because they “stiill” are “Homo sapiens”.Recommend

  • peace lover
    Nov 2, 2010 - 3:04PM

    agree with Haider Zaidi…. As they are non-muslims, they should be provided with their own grave yard. This is acceptabl to both muslims and ahmedis.Their will be no chance of conflict or exhumation. Recommend

  • Nov 2, 2010 - 3:12PM

    Ladies and Gentlemen behold! We’ve just reached a new low, all over again.Recommend

  • ZUlfi
    Nov 2, 2010 - 3:19PM

    indeed Allah gave us stamp of Qurran and Sunnah identifying for Non-Musilm and Qurran and Sunnah also telling the sign and qualities of Hypocrats ( Munafiq)

    second, Ahamedid never allow Muslim to burried in their grave yard becuse they dont consider us muslim, becsue this is historical fact that first Foriegn Minister of Pakistan Zafar Ullah who was Qadiani, he refuse to attend Funeral Namaz e Janza ) of Quad-e-Azam, becuse of his belief that Quaid-E-azam is not a Muslim.Recommend

  • Hina
    Nov 2, 2010 - 3:24PM

    @ the comment: that we have!
    congratulations pakistan! and to all those ignorants here blabbin about ahmadis not bein muslim…
    quit the crap and stop playing “god”!Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Nov 2, 2010 - 3:25PM

    Agreed with Haider Zaidi.

    The law declaring Ahmedis as non-muslims was just. Recommend

  • Nov 2, 2010 - 3:41PM

    Alongwith Haider here, the most disturbing aspect in the article is not just what the disgusting laws are out there against the Ahmedis, but how selective the implementation of laws take place here. This is a case, if you care to notice, where the people of the village themselves had no issue with an Ahmedi member being buried there. The issue was raised by some Mullahs up in Sargodha who clearly had other vested agendas to prove their dominance and make a farce out of law endorsing authorities what machos they are with their long goaties sunk in deep henaa.

    Now why is their authorititatveness not stopped there?

    Do you see how commonly accepted this invasiveness of the Mullahs is in our law enforcing agencies?Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Nov 2, 2010 - 3:59PM

    @Dan Quyyam
    Do the dead have religion?Recommend

  • Nov 2, 2010 - 4:10PM

    As unjust as the law declaring someone as non-Muslim is, it was equally unjust of the police to have the relatives dig up the grave and exhume the body. This is, so inhumane.

    As much as I would like to see a country where state and religion were working together, I don’t see how it is possible when we discriminate on the basis of religion.Recommend

  • Karim
    Nov 2, 2010 - 4:51PM

    Well Deobandis claim that all Barelvi’s are non-muslim. A day will come when no Barelvi will be allowed to bury their dead anywhere.Recommend

  • Haider Zaidi
    Nov 2, 2010 - 5:15PM

    the comment of Mr. Shahjahan bhutto (and also the similar ones) is really hilarios. the law about declaring “anyone” as non muslim is unjust? it means that u cannot declare hidus, bushists, jews and chritians as non muslims by law?? sicen like the qadians, they too dont Consider Hazrat Mohammad S.A.A.W as the just and final prophet.Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 2, 2010 - 5:24PM

    @ Zulfi

    I see that the mullahs have filled your mind with the wrong information.

    Sir Zafarullah Khan did pray in the Namaz-e-Janaaza of Quaid-e-Azam but only the family one which was according to Khoja Shia beleifs.

    He did not however pray in the public Namaz-e-Janaaza of the Quaid because it was led by Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani who considered Ahmadis to be non-Muslims and worth killing.

    So get your facts right because Sir Khan did pray but with Jinnahs family in their house and not in the poblic funeral.

    Btw Maulana Maududi (founder of Jamaat-e-Islami), Mian Tufail and others like them did not pray in either Namaz-e-Janaza becuase they considered Quaid-e-Azam to be a Kafir.

    How the Mullahs have twisted information and fed it to people over all these years. Recommend

  • Hamid Jatt
    Nov 2, 2010 - 5:28PM

    Shame on the so called Muslim of Pakistan. Pakistan’s law is a joke inshaallah you will all learn to respect human as human and not bring religion to every issue. Ahmadiyyat Will prevail all over the world and there is nothing you can do to stop it. May Allah bless the family of the decease and the young man who passed away AmeenRecommend

  • Angelos
    Nov 2, 2010 - 5:29PM

    1) Ahmedis are NON-MUSLIMS
    2) There is no prohibition in burying Non-Muslim in Muslim graveyard (as per my knowledge)
    3) The amicable solution is that if relatives of the people buried their have no problem with the burial of Ahmedi, then no other person should have.
    4) If Ahmedis dont allow burial of Muslims in their graveyard, I say we should act like a true Muslim and set an example instead of creating more hatred.Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 2, 2010 - 5:38PM

    Btw a Muslim is someone who recites the Kalima (There is no god but Allāh, Muhammad is Allāh’s Messenger).

    Like I have said before finality of Prophethood isn’t a mandatory element in which one has to beleive to be classified as a Muslim.

    Even if it was, Ahmadi’s beleive in Khatme Nabuwat, they hold Mohammed (PBUH) to be the last law bearing Prophet.

    I also would like to highlight that the word ‘final’ is never used in the Quran but rather the word ‘Seal’, Mohammed (PBUH) is the ‘Seal of the Prophets and Ahmadis beleive that.

    They consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be the foretold reformer and awaited one of all religions.Recommend

  • Qureshi
    Nov 2, 2010 - 5:54PM

    The news itself is disturbing enough, that it has been happening since 1984 is also a fact, but to add insult to the injury one just has to go though the comments section.

    Its easy to see the variety of mind set. While few are able enough to rationalize and look at the subject neutrally, there are many who would proudly declare this as a victory for ‘Islam’, as an infidel’s ‘dead body’ was exhumed, and the graveyard was purified.

    I would like to know if the dead also have political/religious agendas, if they have meetings in the graveyard, have laws to declare group of select few as minority and talk about the law of land, rule of law.

    True prayers, that might still save Pakistan.Recommend

  • Amna
    Nov 2, 2010 - 6:16PM

    Ahmadis are not Muslim. So why do they want to be buried in a Muslim graveyard? If your rights and freedoms as a minority are being violated…please complain. Dont make a huge issue out of nothing.Recommend

  • Hamza
    Nov 2, 2010 - 6:29PM

    I’m shocked to see that there are still people who take sides of such clerics and these policemen. These so called ‘Gatekeepers of Islam’ are the reason we suffer. The reason we our children are not safe, our people full of fear.
    Do not even get me started on if Ahmedi’s are Muslims or not Muslims. I challenge you to show me that document, attested by God, which gave you that right to call someone kafir, or to put him in jail for saying Salam to you.
    Do we not fear God when we commit such acts? May Allah have mercy on us all.Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 2, 2010 - 6:37PM

    Btw, Ahmadis do allow Muslims to be buried in their graveyards.

    Another propaganda spread by Mullahs.Recommend

  • Amna
    Nov 2, 2010 - 6:52PM

    @ Hamza: I agree that it is ridiculous that Ahmadis are penalized for saying “Salam”. About calling Ahmadis Non-Muslim though, a Muslim is one who believes in God, the last day, and the Prophet PBUH as the FINAL messenger. Since the Ahmadis do not….hence I call them non-Muslim. And no, I dont agree with Mullas when they run around calling everyone who doesnt agree with them non-Muslim, but some things are common knowledge.Recommend

  • Usman Chaudry
    Nov 2, 2010 - 7:04PM

    There is only one problem in Pakistan; just one. If this is resolved, most of the issues will be resolved. And that problem is ‘illiteracy’. We are doomed because of illiteracy. Corruption is provoked by illiteracy. Racism is provoked by illiteracy. Religious extremism is provoked by illiteracy. Aggressive behavior is caused by illiteracy. All such acts are causes of other complex acts and behaviors. So, get up and do something for education in this country before its too late. It might do wonders for the years to come.Recommend

  • Ali Farooqui
    Nov 2, 2010 - 7:16PM

    @ hamza : I challenge you to show me that document, attested by God,

    its called Kalma-e-tayyiba ever heard of it? I could only forward you to one solid authority, open Quran (I hope you find it attested enough by God) for once and read 33:40, If qadiyanis believe (not say) these two notions then they are muslims and if they do not they are non muslims (but it doesn’t make them any less Pakistani) Recommend

  • Bangash
    Nov 2, 2010 - 7:47PM

    I didn’t know graveyards had a religion. Peculiar mentality of Pakistanis, they will happily take money and votes from Ahmadis but not allow them to be buried in “muslim graveyards”.

    Intolerance is increasing rapidly in Punjab and it will soon degenerate into FATA.Recommend

  • Aamir Ali
    Nov 2, 2010 - 7:53PM

    The law declaring Ahmedis as non-Muslim was the first victory for the mullah in Pakistan, and opened the gate to the intolerance, extremism and violence that hurts Pakistan everyday. Only a fool would call such a law “just”.Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Nov 2, 2010 - 8:18PM

    Every one is digressing from the issue at hand. This article is not discussing whether Ahmadis are Muslim or not. It is describing an act which is so disgusting it should enrage everyone be they Muslim,Ahmadi,Christian or Jew. When a person dies they have the right to be given a decent burial. Don’t forget we have risen from the dust and we must return to it. While we are all giving our expert opinion on this matter think what if that was my body that was dug up or my father’s,brother’s or child’s. Think of what that family must be going through.We Pakistanis must think about what kind of society we are building where intolerance for a person doesn’t even die with death.Recommend

  • faraz
    Nov 2, 2010 - 8:37PM

    Perhaps the mullahs were afraid that the angels may tag the dead man as a Muslim by mistake! We people are sick, we dont even spare dead bones. Recommend

  • Maestro96
    Nov 2, 2010 - 8:49PM

    Sick society. Recommend

  • Humanity
    Nov 2, 2010 - 9:08PM

    Ignorance and arrogance consume a human mind, heart and soul in the form of hatred. The nation has enshrined bigotry in the constitution. Tomorrow they will rip open the graves of sh’ia, deobandi, and salafi. It is only a matter of time. Just watch this fossilized mindset plunge to new lows.

    *Watan ki fikr kar nadaan musibat aane waali hai,
    Teri barbaadiyon ke mashware hain aasmanon main,
    Na samjoge to mit jaaoge e Pakistanwalo(+)
    Tumhari dastan tak bhi na hogi daastanon main.

    (Think for the country o fool, for disaster awaits, The skies speak of your tragedies Worry for the country, Or you will be wiped out)*

    (+)Hindustanwalo in original pre-partition verses by Iqbal.
    Recommend

  • atts
    Nov 2, 2010 - 9:44PM

    muslim graveyard, christian graveyard, country borders, airspace……. oh yeah rite… God created the earth & then set these dividers…… errr dint he? from the looks of some of the mindsets here, i guess he did.
    my question to you all would be…. exactly how many of u r true muslims…… n i dont mean praying, fasting, believing in God n prophet….. muslims just dont end there….. so who r u to judge who is a muslim & who is not….. what gave u the authority?Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:10PM

    A Muslim is someone who recites the Kalima (There is no god but Allāh, Muhammad is Allāh’s Messenger).

    Like I have said before finality of Prophethood isn’t a mandatory element in which one has to beleive to be classified as a Muslim.

    Even if it was, Ahmadi’s beleive in Khatme Nabuwat, they hold Mohammed (PBUH) to be the last law bearing Prophet.

    I also would like to highlight that the word ‘final’ is never used in the Quran but rather the word ‘Seal’, Mohammed (PBUH) is the ‘Seal of the Prophets and Ahmadis beleive that.

    They consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be the foretold reformer and awaited one of all religions.Recommend

  • rangarh
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:25PM

    I dont care if the buried man was muslim non muslim … i dont care if he was a bad person or good one … Because once some one is dead and buried we are supposed to leave his after life to God right ? … thats how i thought it worked .. so I dont care about the who what and how of the dead body … It is a dead body … It cannot move itself anymore … So as humans (let alone muslims) we have to do something about it and usually we bury it … Which was done in this case … Now I do care about a few other things though … How can the police and their cohorts dig the body up without a court notice ?? … and if we agree what they did was wrong then why dont they get punished ?? … And I hear a lot of people shouting about Quran and Sunnah … Maybe my knowledge is limited but please tell me where does digging up a dead body figure in both of them ?? … I thought Islam did not even allow you to touch the crops of the ‘kafirs’ when at war … but I guess the dead are less sacred than crops after all Recommend

  • Amna
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:28PM

    All arguments aside, it is not a part of Islam to make exclusive burial sites anyway. There should be no such thing as Muslim or Non Muslim graveyards. There should be just plain graveyards with all types of people buried. We shoud not complicate this more than needed.Recommend

  • basharat
    Nov 2, 2010 - 10:52PM

    I saw a poster at the Rally to Restore Sanity which I believe is very appropriate:
    “I’m pretty sure that God hates us equally” Recommend

  • Amir
    Nov 2, 2010 - 11:19PM

    In UK, in a graveyard dominated by Christians, my sister in law, a Muslim, is burried. There are other religious denominations who are also burried there. The west allows other religions to burry there dead…a sign of respect for the departed. But not in the holiest land, the purest land of all, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

    Now why are we assuming that the graveyard is Muslim? The headline does say Muslim Graveyard, but the report says government graveyards. But then again the government is run by religious bigots, there minions are religious bigots, they follow religious bigots sermons, so the whole system is bigotted.

    We will die fighting each other. Recommend

  • javed hamid
    Nov 2, 2010 - 11:30PM

    see the local people had no objection….. it was the damn silly self-righteous Mullah, who is taking us back to the stone age with such deeds.
    shame on you, my pakistan’s clergy.
    and shame on police too, who got frightened of mullahs.Recommend

  • jari
    Nov 3, 2010 - 12:08AM

    I agree with Usman Chaudhry sahib. there is one root problem of Pakistan which is called illitracy. the most illitrate are mullahs. mullahs got power from the coward police and government of Pakistan. Police should have arrested this brand of mullah and put him in Jail and Government should have backed the police then things have gotton better. this should have been done since 1984. but mullahs knew that their friend and worst enemy of Pakistan is in power who was gen zia who killed the atmosphere of brotherhood and togetherness in our beloved country. The way we do here in US, we buy the lot within same graveyard which is for every body. so it is separate but at the same time it is in the same area of graveyard which is assigned by the city government of graveyard. this is much better than having several graveyards in the same small town for each religious entity. We should all learn this from US. One should also learn that I voted in US election without certifying that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is not a true prophet, which I would have to do if I were to live in pakistan. that is why I never voted there although born and raised there. these things come with true literacy. Recommend

  • Priya
    Nov 3, 2010 - 12:11AM

    This is a sad state of affairs. I am an Indian and a hindu and when I read these comments in pakistani papers, I observe a lot of the people (while comparing India and Pakistan) comment on casteism in the Hindu religion and how Islam treats everyone equally. I agree that casteism is a social evil. However I am sure if there is a God then he would be shocked at this treatment of another human being after death. Realistically if Ahmedis are considered non muslims and have separate burial grounds, the man should have been buried there. But it seems no one objected to it before he was buried and it seems that the deceased person’s relatives tried to take permission for the same and received no objection. Someone please tell me how are the flood victims being buried? Can they make out who is a muslim or a christian and then bury them accordingly? Recommend

  • Usman
    Nov 3, 2010 - 12:29AM

    I have one question: how would we (Pakistanis) react if a Pakistani Muslim was exhumed from a graveyard in America? Of course, we would be all angry and whine about the treatment of Muslims in the West. We would even burn a few tires and possibly an effigy of a non-Muslim.
    Unfortunately, we Pakistanis don’t react the same way when we ourselves are the perpetrators and do horrendous things to others (kaafirs, non-believers, Hindus, Ahmadis, Parsis, etc). We, the shameless people, think we are better than everyone in the world just because we were born in Pakistani Muslim households. It doesn’t matter what kind of people we are and what kinds of things we do, as long as we throw in a few casual InshaAllahs and MashaAllahs in every conversation. Lack of education, intellect, religious knowledge, tolerance, and common sense has molded us into a nation of elitist non-resentful holier than thou religious bigots.
    This messed up (for lack of better words) mentality has made us so intolerant that anyone who disagrees with us is deemed ‘kaafir’ and punishable by death. Such behavior is facilitated due to our slow and antiquated legal system and intentionally complex & controversial blasphemy laws. We have taken upon ourselves to do God’s job and punish anyone who disagrees with our so-clear-as-mud views and logic.
    This toxic mix of misconceptions, lack of tolerance, and violence has led to several unrelated incidents. Unrelated they may be but they all share the same characteristics; intolerance, lust for violence, and apathy for someone else’s pain. The incidents that come to my mind are: this incident of exhuming an Ahmadi’s dead body, painting ‘kaafir’ on the coffin of the Hindu student in the Air Blue crash, and of course the brutal public execution of the two brothers in Sialkot.
    My message to fellow Pakistanis, please wake up from this illusion of grandiosity and start thinking of yourselves as ordinary people. We are not extraordinary people, we are just extra-ordinary!Recommend

  • Alm757
    Nov 3, 2010 - 12:36AM

    Ahmadies are worshippers of Allah Almighty the creator of this universe and believes in One-ness of Allah and His messenger Muhammad (swa), they should not worry the and always submit to will of Allah Almighty. Allah is the one who will judge on the day of Judgment who is Muslim & who is not. All those who called themselves Muslims should read Quranic Verse 2:114 (including Bismillah) and judge themselves As commented by Dan Qayoom that “Jewish graveyards don’t allow non-Jewish burials either” so Muslims of this age following the footstep of Jewish people. Jewish people rejected the claim of Prophet Eissa as Messiah of the age, so also following their footsteps Muslims of this age rejected the Claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian as Promised Messaih and Mahdi of this age thus fulfilling the Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (swa) that Muslims will follow the Jewish tradition Jewish has 72 sects so also Muslims divided in 72 sects. God will be the Judge not We.Recommend

  • el
    Nov 3, 2010 - 12:38AM

    Here in Karachi, Shias don’t bury their dead in a Sunni graveyard.
    Deobandis don’t bury their dead in a Barelvi graveyard.

    Heck, Delhi walas don’t buy their dead in a Bantva Memon graveyard =D

    I mean seriously, i’m all for freedom of expression, but life is all about gain some, lose some. Now tht you’ve publicly chosen to be of a faith witch-hunted in a godforsaken country like pakistan, you better get your act together!

    i am an atheist, but i don’t go around wearing my beliefs on my sleeve! it’s pakistan for god sake. . . . ahmedis need to learn something from agha khanis. majority of sunnis & shias don’t count them as muslims too. BUT, they’re not discriminated against. but thn again, they don’t try to be all missionary like ahmadis, they are highly engaged in social work at all levels. and most of all, they let religion be their private matter. if sunnis, shias and others are bigoted, then let them be. you walk your walk!Recommend

  • Nov 3, 2010 - 12:41AM

    @Haider Zaidi: the comment of Mr. Shahjahan bhutto (and also the similar ones) is really hilarios. the law about declaring “anyone” as non muslim is unjust?…”

    Yes it is “injust” to create a law that stops people from believing what they want to believe in. Why? Because you don’t own them. We don’t own anyone. Nor do they own anyone. Except for the beliefs we have. And for Allah, everyone’s responsible for their own beliefs. Why do you keep forgetting that? On the day of judgement what do you think Allah will ask you? That DID YOU pray, or DID YOU MAKE SOMEONE ELSE pray? If they want to call themselves Muslims by all means. I am no one to judge them on that. That’s God’s job and HE HAS NOT ALLOWED ME or anyone for that matter to do HIS work for him. Why do you keep forgetting that?Recommend

  • Taimur
    Nov 3, 2010 - 1:00AM

    @ Realist and others like him:

    You will all be answerable to God one day, just like Ahmadis.. my countrys current state is because of people like you! damn you all!Recommend

  • Eman
    Nov 3, 2010 - 1:55AM

    Our beloved Prophet Mohammad (PBUH),the last prophet, was also a mercy for mankind.Lets be merciful to Allahs creatures.May Allah show everyone the light and grant the right path.Ameen. Recommend

  • Eman
    Nov 3, 2010 - 2:03AM

    Our beloved Prophet Mohammad(PBUH),the last prophet,was also a mercy for mankind.Lets be merciful to Allahs creatures.Recommend

  • Dr Dev Mishra
    Nov 3, 2010 - 2:47AM

    My good lord,

    Here in India we are building international level 6 star resorts- chek it out- http://www.theleela.com/hotel-kovalam.html -and there in Pakistan my brethren are indulging in the most useless and retrogressive arguments about who is a kaafir, munafiq, wajib ul qatal etc.
    I think the respected Quaid would be turning in his grave. Given a choice he would willingly fly to Leela hotel in Kovalam with me today and we would raise a toast to the magnificient sunset.

    Peace out, my best wishes to all in Pak, come and join the real world.
    Dr Dev Mishra, UKRecommend

  • Ali Farooqui
    Nov 3, 2010 - 3:16AM

    @ Talha “I also would like to highlight that the word ‘final’ is never used in the Quran but rather the word ‘Seal’, Mohammed (PBUH) is the ‘Seal of the Prophets and Ahmadis beleive that.”

    Wrong .. you are using translation to justify your theory it clearly says in the qouted ayah (33:40) ‘Khatimun nabiyyeen” (literally translated end of prophet hood) seal is used in some translations as in seal the words which again means finality Recommend

  • Tippu
    Nov 3, 2010 - 3:34AM

    The police staff responsible for this should be tried in a court of law and expelled from the force and made to pay damages to the family.

    All of us muslims living overseas bury our dead in christian graveyards. And no one here raises any objections. Why is it that only the muslims of pakistan are the most backward and ill informed out of all the muslims in the world.

    What is wrong with you people????Recommend

  • iqbal
    Nov 3, 2010 - 3:41AM

    How low can Pakistan go? To all foreigners I say welcome to Jinnah’s creation. He got it so wrong that even human dignity is not respected. To murder Ahmedias and to discriminate against them is no sin but politicians have their knickers in a twist when there is an incident in Indian Kashmir. It is no wonder that the Americans have to come and clean up the radicals through drone attacks. For the sake of humanity I am hoping that the Americans, Israelis, British and the Indians just defeat the stronghold of the mullahs. I know it is harsh but if that does not happen then fairly soon we will not have Pakistan.

    Historians are right to say that Pakistan is doomed to fail. Even Jinnah’s own daughter rejected rejected. What coincidence.Recommend

  • basharat
    Nov 3, 2010 - 4:54AM

    I am in full agreement with Mr Imran Jattala that police has no authority to exhume a dead body without an order from a competent court . The circumstances and the reasons to disinter a corpse have enumerated
    in sections 174 and 175 of Code of Criminal Procedure . The officer In charge of a police station or some other police officer specially empowered by the Provincial Government in that behalf , on receiving information that a person–
    ( a ) Has committed suicide, or
    ( b ) has been killed by another, or by an animal, or by machinery or by an accident, or
    ( c ) has died under circumstances raising, a reasonable suspicion that some other person has
    committed an offence, shall immediately give intimation to the nearest magistrate to hold inquest.
    Section 175 ( 2 ) says ,
    Power to disinter corps. Whenever such Magistrate considers it expedient to make an examination of the dead body of any person who has been already interred , in order to discover the cause of death , the Magistrate may , cause the body to be disinterred and examine.
    According to law , a dead body can only be exhumed to ascertain the cause of death and not
    for any religious reasons .The police has acted without a lawful authority just to please narrow minded mullahs only because they can create a law and order situation .
    Since many decades, hate mongers , with complete freedom and without any fear of accountability , had been spreading false , and provocative allegations Ahmadis . Due to draconian laws promulgated by dictator Zia , Ahmadis do not have right to reply and clarify their position. One sided propaganda is contrary to legal maxim, ” No one should be condemned unheard.
    People of Pakistan in general are tolerant , majority of them condemn All forms of tyrannies and terrorism , most of the commentators have disapproved the inhuman act.
    In many European countries the Muslims bury their dead in Christian grave yards and the inmates of graves have never protested. Some times, human conscience will prevail in Pakistan, and culture of hate and intolerance will disappear, for ever.
    .Recommend

  • Ali Haider
    Nov 3, 2010 - 5:31AM

    It is a shame for Pakistan. We are fast becoming like Saudi Arabia. Our mullahs have gone mad and they should be kicked out of the country. Specially this mullah who asked for taking the body out of the grave because the man did not believe in what he believes. This is sick and should be condemned at the highest level.

    Whether Ahmadi’s are muslims or not is NOT for us to decide and it should not be our business. What should be our business is that they should get proper education without prejudice, proper health care and shelter. That is more like a proper Islamic society.

    OUR MOULVIS ARE SICK AND THEY SHOULD LEAVE THE DEAD ALONE. Recommend

  • Nov 3, 2010 - 5:33AM

    Remember Mullahs who did not pray Namaz-ul-janaza for the QuaidEAzam as they considered him a Kafir. We let the Mullah increase his hold over society and Pakistans future, this is nothing compared to watch the Mullahs will do to Pakistan in the future, either Pakistan and Pakistanis grow up and tackle this menace now or the entire nation is going to break into piecesRecommend

  • Ali Haider
    Nov 3, 2010 - 5:40AM

    @Haider Zaidi
    I am sorry but you seem to have lost it. If someone is a Hindu, he is a Hindu. You calling him a non-muslim will not matter as he does not care. Same goes for all Christians and other beliefs. Do you feel proud by calling other people non-muslims just for the heck of it? What is the point here?

    So what, if the other person is a non-muslim? In an Islamic state, do non-muslims not have rights? Ther should ne no discrimination based on religion and here we are discriminating based on everything including religion.

    We are in a pathetic state. If you are a non-muslim you are second class citizen. If you are a muslim, well, are you shia or sunni? if you are not what i am, you are second class. If you are a sunni, oh well, which school of thought are you from? well, if you are not from my school of thought you are a second class citizen.

    We should be ashamed of ourselves, at the least, for having a mindset that discriminates people based on their religion. This is pathetic and it must stop. NOW!Recommend

  • Aziz Bhatti
    Nov 3, 2010 - 6:20AM

    What a shame. What a shame. I was in Pakistan till 2008. And I was ‘Not Muslim’. Now I’m in Australia. And I am a Muslim here. No plans to visit homeland but once I enter in Pakland I’ll be ‘Not Muslim’ again for sure. For few days though but what a joke. what an ‘Islam’ Pakistani Mullah and 1974’s Parliament has made in the 21st century. Recommend

  • Tan
    Nov 3, 2010 - 7:33AM

    sick ppl, i guess the flood wasn’t enough for them…i have no idea what satisfication mullahs get out of doing such shameful acts…..they could never stop the spread/rise of Ahmadiyat.Recommend

  • Dr Asif Ali
    Nov 3, 2010 - 9:23AM

    The family should have been advised before burial. If the burial is done then we should follow the law of land. I understand the emotions of people from both sides. Non-muslims could have their own graveyard arranged by the Nazim of the Union Council. The buried person should have been transfered respectfully to the non-muslim graveyard. But as a muslim we are bound by law and by shariah to award peace to all minorities in our country.Recommend

  • khan
    Nov 3, 2010 - 9:50AM

    kudos to tribune for covering this. it seems no body else is bothered every time minorities are pushed up to the limit.

    shame on you mullah’s! and those who support them. Recommend

  • Abdul saboor
    Nov 3, 2010 - 9:55AM

    I have read some of the comments about other communities are not allowed to bury their people if they are not Muslim. Well, I would like to ask only one thing. what is the definition of a
    Muslim? Who have the rights to declare someone Muslim, Christian, etc? The faith is not business of others neither of State, this is a personal decision and only Allah have the right to decide such…Recommend

  • Adeel Ahmed
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:34AM

    This is a non debate.

    Ahmedis are non muslims and therefore can not be buried in a muslim graveyard.
    They should bury their dead in their own graveyard… and no one will say a word to them.
    They should just stop pretending to be muslims, they are not muslims… our parliament, courts, Shariah, everything has termed them non Muslims.

    Recommend

  • Realist
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:44AM

    To all those people who are just saying again and again the same thing i.e., Mullahs can’t declare anyone Non-muslims and the state can’t declare anyone non-mulsims while at the same time claiming the mantle of Islam for themselves, sorry to burst your bubble but both Mullahs and the state have that right. Case in point.

    We should see how Hazrat Abu bakr Siddique (RA), who was both a Mullah and the head of the state at that time and the other Sahabah (RA), who formed the core of the “Mullah party” at that time dealt with the issue of false prophets. Here is the answer for the less informed. They declared them Non-Muslims and waged war on them.

    Hence, yes the state does have the right to declare a sect as Non-Muslims if all the Islamic scholars (who you all call Mullahs in a derogatory way to satisfy your jealousy and secular mindset) are in unison. Ahmedis are considered Kafirs not only in Pakistan but also in the Arab world, Malaysia, Indonesia and even in North African Muslim states. So, yes, here the scholars are in unison. Both Sunni and Shia scholars consider them Non-Muslims. It is one of those rare issues where even these two agree.

    Sorry, but you lose.Recommend

  • Umayr Masud
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:57AM

    It seems the insects living above the ground were caring for their counterparts inside the ground. Didnt want them to have their faith destroyed by heretics / infidels.Recommend

  • Salma haq
    Nov 3, 2010 - 11:07AM

    Ahmadis are kafirs but no one should have disrespect the peace of the dead bodyRecommend

  • Shahid Malik
    Nov 3, 2010 - 11:10AM

    Its a shame. Have we completely forgotten the teachings of Isam and our prophet PBUH. Does Allah only promised the food of muslims?? No. So how can few people decide that this land of Allah is in their control and they can decide who can be burried and who can be not. The matter of him being non muslim is between him and Allah almighty…He is the best judge…we should not approve such acts. Its against being a human being and also against teachings of Islam.Recommend

  • M M Malik
    Nov 3, 2010 - 11:43AM

    Only God can judge who is kafir and who is not. Please refrain from interfering in God’s realm.Recommend

  • Ahmed
    Nov 3, 2010 - 11:45AM

    Some people are trying to make this act as an excuse to question the status of qadianis as non-muslims.
    I ask the ones, who claim that law declaring qadianis is unjust, to explain why it is unjust. qadianis do not believe in finality of prophet-hood and that is essence of a person being a muslim. Other Abrahamic religions (Christians and Jews) also believe in Oneness of Allah but do not believe in the Holy Prophet. so how qadianis are different from Christians and Jews. qadianis can also claim to be Jews or Christians.Recommend

  • SAM
    Nov 3, 2010 - 12:07PM

    Is there ever a good or a pleasant news ever in this GOD Forsaken country ?Recommend

  • Raheel
    Nov 3, 2010 - 12:57PM

    @ Ahmed..Jews and Chritians don’t believe in Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in the first place let alone the finality of him.

    I mean who cares 20 years from now who was burried where ?? I just would like to understand how by burrying or not burrying an ordnairy human in particuler peace of land could create a significat difference in contemprary sense ? What if Iqbal was burried in London and Jinnah in Paris ? Seriosly what ? will the fact cease to exist they created pakistan ?

    I think the law declaring them non-Muslims has more to do with political rather than religious matter like 80/20 ?.. I believe it all started when mullahs were successful to exert enough pressure on ZAB, and we all know what followed latter in time of ZIA to declare Ahemdi’s Non-Muslims. I mean to say legislatures always get passed by the elected members or dictator through parliaments?

    It’s interesting to know how many other Muslim countries have such Laws?? In general we also assume our vocational education is inclusive enough to equip us with social and religious education which is not the case…. the latter two which most of us has out sourced to some DEVINELY SELECTED, RIGHTIOUS, THE ONE… RELIGIOS/POLITICAL LEADER who would take our decision for us and we are just to follow blindly. I.E “Anhdi Aqeedat”

    I do feel Muslims of Subcontinent are far more divided compared to any other Muslim geographical region, and we are looking for right answers of the wrong questions and losing the ability to ask the right questions in the first place.Recommend

  • Tony Khan
    Nov 3, 2010 - 1:41PM

    Ahmadis believe in finality of the message bought by Hazrat Muhammad (saw). Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the promised reformer, just as the main body of Muslims believe that Jesus (as) will return in the latter days. However, some scholars like Khalid Zaheer, Javed Ghamadi etc. believe Jesus (as) is dead and cannot return.Recommend

  • mona
    Nov 3, 2010 - 1:46PM

    this act is shameful.For all those who are saying Ahmidies r non muslim, i just want to say that in the eyes of GOD every one is equal. the whole world belong to Almighty Allah as a humabeing it belong to all of us not any religion or any sect. Recommend

  • brownsugar
    Nov 3, 2010 - 1:46PM

    @Ahmed, we should have our minds open, how can a state law decide about the belief of someone? Parlimentary majority? please go thorugh a general survey of the parliment members of the Sept. 1974 period and see how much knowledge they had about the religion, please be fair to yourself and you will realize the fact. Well we should think over i,t its not a matter of true or false we should find the logic.
    Its a big disgrace to the deceased, are these the teachings of Islam? All the crowd powered mullas are responsible to bring the country to this situation. Recommend

  • Nov 3, 2010 - 1:49PM

    AsSalam-O-Alaikum!
    After Reading this article, I shattered into pieces and I teared up!
    I am an Ahmadi Muslim Student and live in Canada and am glad to say, I am not living and being a part of this in Pakistan! I mean what other shameful act is left to do for these people in Pakistan! There is something called “Human Rights” There is NO such thing as “SUNNI RIGHTS” Or “MUSLIM RIGHTS” and if there is, then it should be highly recommended that they CHANGE IT! So we all should pity these inhumane people and pray to Allah to give them something called “common sense.” It’s sad how you can’t even stop torchering a DEAD person this is a very inhumanely act, so the bottom line actually would be as someone said “You don’t have to teach people how to be human. You have to teach them how to stop being inhumane.” I appreciate all the Ahmadi Muslim people still living and fighting for their rights in Pakistan, We here can only write our opinions/ comment and pray for all our brothers and sisters who are being affected there, It’s the people of Pakistan who have to stand up and make all these illiterate realize that they are wrong!! If you do not agree with the same religious believes as Ahmadi Muslims that’s a totally different thing, but even the lowest of the low knows that we all are HUMAN BEINGS first and then religion comes in play! We all know the Religious history, the true believers Allah have always been accused for being wrong and been punished. One day Inshallah by the grace of Allah the truth will be accepted by all! May Allah have mercy on all our Ahmadi Muslim brothers and sisters all over the world, Ameen! AND may Allah give some common sense and the quality to use their common sense and brain towards particular situations, instead of following Official representative, Ameen!!

    Wa/Salaam,
    Mehak ARecommend

  • MJS
    Nov 3, 2010 - 3:43PM

    .There is no such thing as MUSLIM graveyard, no prophet deemed it so why allow these bigots , the bearded or the uniformed ones, as well as one to call himself a Realist, to dictate to the vast majority.
    Earth belongs to all mankind but bigots do not believe in mankind its time to act strongly against them by standing firmRecommend

  • Realist
    Nov 3, 2010 - 4:20PM

    @ Taimur

    I am not destroying your country. I am just pointing out what the Khalifa Rashid and Sahaba did against false prophets and their followers. These are the Muslims who are destroying your country

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/71821/saudi-prince-accuses-religious-affairs-ministry-for-embezzlement/Recommend

  • MC
    Nov 3, 2010 - 4:24PM

    When an Ahmedi crosses the Wagha border he becomes a Muslim. If he were to die in India, would burying him in a Muslim grave yard be illegal?

    Are the Ahmedis who died before 1984 and are buried in Muslim graveyards causing any aggravation to the fellow Muslims buried alongside?

    Why is some people’s faith so fragile that in becomes endangered when they hear the ‘azan’ from an Ahmedi mosque or when an Ahmedi greets them with a ‘salam’? ….. so much so that they feel the need to report him and have him put behind bars!

    Is passing a judgement on another person’s faith not interfering in God’s jurisdiction?

    If yes, then why is a Muslim state allowing this interference in God’s dominion?

    If not, then God help this ignorant lot!Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 3, 2010 - 5:25PM

    From the discussion going on, I am sorry to say, not many of us know the true definition of a Muslim. All definitions which do not have their source in the Holy Quran or the Hadith are just concocted stories to suit the individual desires. To enter Islam, the only requirement is the Qalima. Thereafter to be a momin you have to adhere to many compulsory rituals. However to be expelled from Islam, this is not a political matter to be voted for or against. As far as the Ahmadi belief is concerned, for those who do not know what is their belief and just rely on hearsay, they are the true champions of Khatam e Nabuwat.Recommend

  • Realist
    Nov 3, 2010 - 6:26PM

    @ Mirza Naseer Ahmed

    So are you saying that all the Gulf states, Indonesia, Malaysia, North African Muslim states have something against the Ahmedis and all of them (that is a whole lot of them) decided one fine evening that Ahmedis should be declared Kafirs because of mere hearsay? Sir, please. You are trying too hard.Recommend

  • Hasan
    Nov 3, 2010 - 6:53PM

    @Realist: Actually the answer is quite easy; Petro dollars along with wahabi influence. Muslims in general have become more hardline under the influence of the above two over last few decades. This has manifested in every sphere including more shias are being killed more churches being burnt across Muslim world including Pakistan, Indonesia, and even in so called moderate Malaysia. Really elemental.Recommend

  • Cm
    Nov 3, 2010 - 6:54PM

    The biggest misfortune of this country is that the corrupt elected members and ignorant clerics deem it their birth right to issue ‘fatwas’ on anyone they feel threatened by.
    They declare the living as ‘kaafirs’ but it seems they also have the right to declare the religion of the dead.
    The dead who cannot speak for themselves.
    The dead who do not have a say in the choice of the place of their burial.
    The dead who certainly do not have the power to shift themselves from a Muslim to a non Muslim grave yard.
    The dead who are judged by fellow humans whereas the Almighty declares that He alone has the right to question and judge them!Recommend

  • Fouqia Badr
    Nov 3, 2010 - 7:02PM

    Spiritual matters are not decided by ‘ayes’ and ‘nays’. Brute numbers do not matter in religion. All Qalima reciters are Muslims in my view. The final judge is the Almighty. Recommend

  • Faseeha
    Nov 3, 2010 - 7:07PM

    The earliest Muslims in Mecca were buried in common graveyards along with infidels. However, this fact has no effect on their standing as companions of the Prophet (saw). Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 3, 2010 - 8:41PM

    @Realist
    I don’t think you are conversant with the Hadith, in which the Holy Prophet foretold about the division of the Muslim Ummah into 72 sects and then the 73rd Sect will come. How will you tell which is right and which is wrong. All 72 will join up against one.
    And Guess which is the one against whom all others have united?
    But then we are digressing from the main point. State Graveyards are for all citizens of the state. Private graveyards are exclusively for those who have paid and acquired land for it.Recommend

  • Hasan
    Nov 3, 2010 - 9:59PM

    This book is useful for anyone who wants to know what went wrong;

    Connivance by Silence

    The book, Connivance by Silence,
    discusses the “engineered doctrines”
    that are the root cause(s) of
    radicalism among Muslims. These
    doctrines have evolved over the past
    100 years with the advent of the
    industrial revolution which caused the
    demise and colonization of the Muslim
    lands. The political clergy then
    designed these destructive doctrines
    which evolved to be considered part of
    the Muslim faith.

    Recommend

  • Humanity
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:06PM

    The world moves on pursuing new discoveries and to conquering new frontiers in fields of medicine, science and other worthy disciplines. On the other hand, as they await true islam, the state-certified Muslims busy themselves with arguing whose grave to dig open because the poor departed soul had not submitted to these gods. The sorry souls are so much in love with themselves they actually believe they must be god.

    It is a law of nature that to survive, a specie must be willing to adapt according to the needs of time. Unadaptable, inflexible, stubborn species are simply run over. They perish because they think they are above the need to change. In other words, they worship themselves. Hence, this is a morally dead nation, getting ready to be obliterated. Neither God nor the world cares for obstinate, ignorant, arrogant and ungrateful people.

    God will help, when these bigots are ready to get rid of hatred from their hearts. They have to be willing to let some light shine into their dark minds. Else remember that, “Tumhari dastaaN tek bhe naa ho gee dastaanauN maiN“.Recommend

  • MC
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:06PM

    The living are not allowed to practice and profess their beliefs at least let the dead lie in peace!Recommend

  • Mansoor
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:21PM

    I live in USA and we bury Ahmadis and Other Muslims in same grave yards along with Christians and Jews. It is very common here. No one digs up graves here! We have other important things in life to take care.

    Also, many times there are Christian Families who approach us Ahmadis here and inform us that their loved one who just departed, had accepted Islam. They ask for his/her burial as Muslim. Ahmadi Muslims take take of that burial arrangements and also bury along with our own graves. No one asks if the person who just died was Shia or Sunni or Ahmadi. As long as his/her family claims they were Muslims, we respect that and take it as is.Recommend

  • no2kadyanism
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:31PM

    Salam Freinds,

    It was not the action of Punjab Police alone but, a collective effort of we the, so called clerics of Pakistan and the Police. Thanks to Allah atleast police helped us and the family quietly took the body out. it is highly recomended to the so called the most stupid, idiotic and nonsense religion on the planet that try to bury your bodies in the heaven given to you people by the Zuriat-e-iblees mirza ghulam ahmed. If they dont let you bury it in the heavens, why do you have to make the issue of burrying it in the hell and than saying that if your man was deserved hell than let us burry him near by to our village, he would get the heavens after the day of judgements.

    People who have commented on this issue are adviced to refrain from commenting on such a sensitive issue, you all should know what are the believes of these people and they are acting as the worst enemies of Islam and Pakistan combinely. Personally i can respect any religion but not this. I can understand that you would argue on the issue of dead body, but every single kadyani should learn a lesson, dead or alive. We would even love to exhume the haram body of there so called khulfaa’s.

    wassalam. Recommend

  • Isfand
    Nov 3, 2010 - 10:53PM

    @Priya “Someone please tell me how are the flood victims being buried? Can they make out who is a muslim or a christian and then bury them accordingly?”

    Well said !

    @Faseeha,thanks for the infoformation.Recommend

  • Tony Khan
    Nov 3, 2010 - 11:55PM

    @no2kadyanism
    Please refrain from using offensive language. You have the right to disagree with Ahmadis.
    For your information Ahmadis believe Hazrat Esa (as) died a natural death and cannot come back. The promised Messiah of Islam has symbolically been called ‘Esa’. Ahmadis believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) was the promised Messiah. He is a reformer and he did not add or subtract an iota from the shariat brought by Hazrat Muhammad (saw). Islam as explained by the Holy Prophet (saw) is the final religion for all times.
    You have the full right to disagree with this, but please research, think, ponder and then disagree.Recommend

  • daanish
    Nov 4, 2010 - 1:22AM

    its pretty pathetic when you read something like this, and is very annoying when you cant take action against said people b/c you dont know who they are. but some people actually have the brazen guts to comment on this article and say this is all acceptable!! wow, we have some completely messed up people right here, commenting on this article. they’re the type of people who cause this kind of crap to happen in Pakistan.

    to those of you idiots who are getting all high and mighty and whining about Ahmadi’s being non-muslims and therefore deserving this, simple question – will God tell these people they did a good job for exhuming an Ahmadi body and kicking it out of the graveyard? or will He say this was wrong? i would imagine if you say the former you’re a complete idiot anyway so there’s no need for further conversation.Recommend

  • Syed Husain
    Nov 4, 2010 - 1:55AM

    so how many other non-muslims use muslim graveyards to ditch their deads?
    If they are non-muslims as they don’t believe in Khatm-e-Nabuat and as they were declared non-muslims unanimously by an elected assembly in a democratic way, why the hell Express Tribune keep on putting such pro-ahmedi material up all the time?

    It’s a non-issue. Ahmedi are non-muslims so they can not use muslim graveyards.Recommend

  • Humanity
    Nov 4, 2010 - 2:01AM

    @no2kadanism

    You self worshiping demagogue, you think you are perfect and therefore you must be god. Your soul is consumed by your own hatred and hence you have no sense left of right from wrong. God have mercy on you. Tauba – Astaferullah!

    While respectable nations fight real issues like poverty and disease and make progress in the fields of science and technology, the state-certified Muslims busy them selves with desecrating the dead. This is a morally dead nation. Good job, Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Keep waiting for the true islam while you plunge to worse lows every day! People brace yourselves as the holier-than-thou nation jumps off the cliff into Talibanistan.

    I warn you, there is a real Allah, who is watching you. You can not and will not escape His reach. Recommend

  • Shahid Mehmood
    Nov 4, 2010 - 2:29AM

    they are fighting whether he’s Muslim or non Muslim and i remember
    when a funeral of Jew came and our Prophet THE MUHAMMAD SAW stood up for the respect of the funeral……..You are saying he’s non Muslim according to the law and he’s grave can be removed…..and your prophet Muhammad SAW stood up for funeral of Jew’s respect………
    .shame on you, you so called MUSLIMS Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 4, 2010 - 2:35AM

    @ no2kadyanism

    People like you should be dealt with a heavy hand.

    Shameless coward.Recommend

  • nadya
    Nov 4, 2010 - 4:17AM

    its a shame that we treat others with such humiliation. pakistan ka haal dekho, Allah ka azzaab everywhere, we shud do istaghfar for what we are doing to each other in the society. Recommend

  • Saif M
    Nov 4, 2010 - 5:07AM

    Just for the information of a few ill-informed commenters above: Yes, there are Muslims buried in largely Christian graveyards in Christian majority countries. Go and visit the Arlington cemetery in the U.S. Recommend

  • zenia
    Nov 4, 2010 - 7:11AM

    We don’t even spare people when they are dead. How miserable we must have made it for them to be alive. Pity the nation that is void of humanity. Recommend

  • Taqwa
    Nov 4, 2010 - 8:46AM

    This is so horrible. And the people who comment here to justify this atrocity ought to be ashamed of themselves. Who are you people to call anyone non muslim. It is downright an abomination. Allah is well aware of what these awful people are doing and saying. Does anyone fear God anymore? May Allah have mercy on the souls of hard hearted people.Recommend

  • Meher Bano
    Nov 4, 2010 - 10:02AM

    @no2kadyanism
    “……they are acting as the worst enemies of Islam and Pakistan combinely.”
    How are Ahmadis the worst enemies of Islam and Pakistan? Do Ahmadis use suicide bombers to kill their brothers? Did not Ahmadis support Jinnah in securing Pakistan? Did not Ahmadi soldiers and generals defend Pakistan? Are not Ahmadis law abiding citizens of Pakistan? Do Ahmadis desecrate shrines of Muslim divines? Recommend

  • Saad Durrani
    Nov 4, 2010 - 11:54AM

    This is being blown out of proposition too much. Can’t they just be smart and bury the dead in a separate corner… its not like the land was only made for Muslims burials… If they do not want it to be mixed, they can just have a line of division…Recommend

  • GH
    Nov 4, 2010 - 12:17PM

    I think there is no harm in burying any person of any religion in a Graveyard! Because the Angels will come to all and anywhere.Recommend

  • Munazza sami
    Nov 4, 2010 - 12:41PM

    @Saad
    You said that you love Ahmadi because they Are Pakistani….It seems that religion is secondary thing for you…You prefer country not your religion…..Ahmedis are not Muslim as they dont believe on last Holy prophet……..
    yup this thing is wrong that non muslim is not allowed to buried in Muslim graveyard….its wrong………..Recommend

  • Farhan
    Nov 4, 2010 - 12:52PM

    @ All.

    Do muslims are superior beings than all non-muslims? Do all muslims should be supported by muslims at all costs?

    Actually, we are living in a Saudi Colony and for Saudi Government: all muslims are non-muslim who do not follow their ultra-conservative brand of islam.

    Religiousity is not bad, but in case of pakistan it is being used to marginalised all those who are weak (Ahmedis, Christians, Hindus and the list goes on…………).Recommend

  • Farhan
    Nov 4, 2010 - 1:09PM

    I am a muslim but after reading that Ahmedis should not be buried in muslim graveyard, i am ashamed to realise how wrong we are!

    Frankly, today i feel we need 100 years to join the modern world in progress and development. Long live Muslim/Kafir/Ahmedi debate.

    Shame on those who bring islam in every debate of intellelect and reason. Recommend

  • Faseeha
    Nov 4, 2010 - 2:34PM

    @Tony Khan
    Javed Ghamadi, Amin Ahsan Islahi and Khalid Zaheer amongst others believe Jesus (as) died a natural death and the dead cannot return. They present the Quran as proof. Then why is the Muslim nation waiting for the Promised Messiah? On what basis does Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claims to be the promised Messiah?Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 4, 2010 - 3:38PM

    @ Faseeha
    On the basis of the Holy Quran and the Hadith.Recommend

  • ashamed
    Nov 4, 2010 - 4:01PM

    I am
    ashamed to be a Pakistani
    ashamed to be a Muslim
    ashamed to be a human being……Recommend

  • Hassan Kilde Bajwa
    Nov 4, 2010 - 6:03PM

    That ahmedis are discriminated against in Pakistan is no secret nor is really news. Every year ahmedis are killed, implicated in false cases, threatened, expelled from educational institutions, denied employment etc and everybody in Pakistan is perfectly aware of it.
    Some laud it and some lament it and peace be to them.

    What strikes me in this case however is the fact that this was seemingly a tolerant and harmonious community where the ahmedi families were completely integrated members. That is of course before the outsider clerics decided to sink their bigoted claws into it.

    This act of discrimination did not harm only the ahmedis, but the entire community irrespective of religious affiliation. By their actions the clerics divided a community and sowed the seeds of religious discord. What great “keepers of the faith” they are.Recommend

  • IrnSite
    Nov 4, 2010 - 6:18PM

    Dear Muslim Readers,

    How do you think this act makes you look to the US, UK, and other places where freedom and tolerance are cherished? Why should free countries tolerate the intolerable? Are you aware of the incredible global volume of death, carnage, hatred, & barbaric behavior that is done in the name of your religion? I’m afraid that time and excuses are wearing thin to the rest of the non-Muslim world. Make the necessary changes now & take control of your religion from the fanatics or do NOT expect the rest of the world to sit passively by.Recommend

  • Ali Haider
    Nov 4, 2010 - 7:16PM

    The problem with us is that when we go out of Pakistan we want to be treated royally being the minority but we do not extend the same privileged to the minorities within Pakistan.

    I do not agree with Ahmadi school of thought. I personally think the belief is outrageous (i have done my research, for all those go-do-your-research guys).

    BUT, my opinion, however strong, must not in any way hinder with the rights (human rights) of the people of this sect. If I do not agree with them, I can stop talking to them, stop hanging out with them, BUT how on earth can I just hate someone because he has a different belief, to an extent that I am willing to exhume his body? This is simply beyond my comprehension.Recommend

  • T R Khan
    Nov 4, 2010 - 7:19PM

    Mullas should start a program to bring to Pakistan all Muslims buried in non-Muslim graveyards all over the world. They should start with Ch. Rahmat Ali who coined the word ‘Pakistan’ and lies buried in Cambridge alongside Christians, Jews. atheists, Ahmadis etc. Recommend

  • javed
    Nov 4, 2010 - 7:48PM

    If they are not Mushlims then they should not buried in a Muslim graveyard.Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 4, 2010 - 8:42PM

    @Javed. Do you know the difference between a Muslim Graveyard and a Pakistani Graveyard?
    State owned graveyards are for all. specifically purchased land for graveyards belong to that community who has paid for it.
    How many graveyards have been purchased by any of the sects other than Ahmadies?Recommend

  • Faraz
    Nov 4, 2010 - 10:16PM

    Offcourse a non muslim should not be allowed to be burried in a muslim graveyard. What’s so new in that?
    They are non-believers and that’s why muslims hate them more than any other person.
    That’s a simple thing.
    I don’t know why we are discussing it.Recommend

  • Qirat
    Nov 4, 2010 - 11:21PM

    @Faraz
    Does Islam teaches you to hate non-believers?
    The Holy Prophet (saw) never hated non-believers, the people of Taif who were non-believers stoned and abused him, but he spared them from destructions when he did not allow the mountains to crush them. The Holy Prophet (saw) spared Hinda who had earlier eaten the liver of his uncle.
    Whose teachings are you following? Certainly not the Holy Prophet’s.Recommend

  • Clarence
    Nov 5, 2010 - 9:44AM

    We are going backwards in time. Becoming more primitive.Recommend

  • Shinny Kaur, Dehli
    Nov 5, 2010 - 10:44AM

    Why this debate? Why are Muslims so fragile? In this world Muslims live with Sikhs, Hindus and others, they are allowed to marry Jews and Christians, but when they die they want to be buried in a exclusive Muslim-only graveyard. A graveyard is not a filing cabinet where you can mix up souls. Angels keep a very good tab on each soul, living or dead. The way things are going, Pakistan will soon be for Muslims only. Then what will do about the different sects? We hear there are 73 sects and some consider each other non-Muslim. Will we see another partition, I hope not?Recommend

  • Usman Chaudhry
    Nov 5, 2010 - 12:24PM

    Get over it people. The ones who commits such acts would not stop committing them in future too. So, do something so that ourselves and our future generations do not have that mentality.

    Regarding the 73 sects and one sect being the best; keep in mind that this doesn’t imply who is good and who’s not. Infact, dont point finger at others, may be, its you who is wrong. So, try to be good and dont commit things that may harm others. I dont know why people even care what others do; just live your life so that you put a positive or no impact on others. If you’re impacting others negatively even by a fraction, you’re the wrong doer.

    Earth is no one’s property. It belongs to the creator for creation to live on; regardless of his/her religion, caste and background.

    Peace to all humans!!Recommend

  • Lateef Afridi
    Nov 5, 2010 - 2:50PM

    Do our brothers living in the West know that Muslims are to be buried in Muslim exclusive graveyards? There are many crescents among the crosses at Arlington Cemetery, USA.Recommend

  • Faraz
    Nov 5, 2010 - 4:14PM

    @Qirat…Just tell me what will you do with the person who says I am the last prophet. Will you treat him the same way you treat other non muslims?
    There is huge differnece between other non-muslims and Ahmadis. I am sure you are aware of that difference.Recommend

  • Qirat
    Nov 5, 2010 - 5:04PM

    @Faraz
    Please read Tony Khan’s explanation of the Ahmadi belief above. Secondly, as we all are expecting Jesus (as) to make a second coming, who will then be the last prophet?
    Regardless of the Ahmadi beliefs or the answer to my question; all human beings are God’s creation and we must love them, serve them and pray for them (haqooq ul abad).Recommend

  • Nov 5, 2010 - 6:48PM

    The best thing is if we dig up all the mullahs bodies and bury them together since even in death they believe they remain superiorRecommend

  • Faraz
    Nov 5, 2010 - 6:53PM

    @Ali Haider…bro they are practicing their religion freely here, you must be aware that they are sitting on high positions here in Pakistan and this is because they are getting treated as a normal pakistani but here the issue is that ahmadi body is burried in a muslim graveyard and that is what is wrong. Don’t mix up Islam with Pakistan.Recommend

  • Faseeha
    Nov 5, 2010 - 7:27PM

    Ahmadis are not allowed to practice religion freely as envisioned in the constitution, they cannot:

    Preach their belief.
    Call themselves a Muslim.
    Recite Holy Quran.
    Say Muslim salutation “Aasalam-o-Alaikum”.
    Recite “Kalima Tayyeba” i.e. There is no one worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is His Prophet.
    Call for Prayers (Adhan).
    Call their places of worship as “Masjid”.
    Cannot posses anything (badge/book etc.) on which Quranic Verses or Ahadith (sayings of Prophet Mohammad [peace be upon him]) are printed.
    Act or pose like a Muslim.
    Do any such act which hurts the feelings of another Muslim.

    Any of the above acts is punishable from 3 to 7 years´ imprisonment and/or death sentence.Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 5, 2010 - 8:28PM

    @Faraz…. Depends on who is saying it. I as an Ahmadi believe in the FINALITY of Hazrat Muhammad (SAW). Now lets talk about a Pakistani Graveyard, a Muslim Graveyard and an Ahmadi Graveyard. State owned graveyards are not the property of any community, If you wish to have a private graveyard then you must purchase land for it and get it registered for the purpose for which the land has been acquired. Private housing societies earmark land for graveyards for the residents of that society, you just can’t take the mayyat of your near and dear one into their graveyard and bury it without their consent.
    As far as the graveyards in the villages and old graveyards in the cities are concerned they are part of our society in which everyone has a right. My ancestors for the last 3 centuries are buried in Miani Sahib Graveyard in Lahore. Some of them accepted Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) as the Promised Massiah and The Imam Mehdi, there were rifts and difference of opinion amongst the relatives, whether Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s (AS) claim was true or not, but when it came to social values we were united in happiness and in sorrow.
    The irony of it all is that hate literature not based on facts was and has been passed around against us and of recent we are not even allowed to challenge these false allegations. Your opinion is a clear case in which you have just been fed one side of the story.
    The only thing I can say to you at this stage is May Allah guide you. Again I remind you do not go on heresy or the wrong interpretation of the Holy Quran, The Hadith and Sunnah e Rasool(SAW). Remember our motto. “LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE” Recommend

  • Shinny Kaur, Dehli
    Nov 5, 2010 - 10:42PM

    With this level of upheaval and lack of trust amongst the citizens, Pakistanis need to re-think their future survival strategy. To get a passport you guys have to declare a person who died in 1908 as an impostor and a liar. The Pakistani passport I hear is the only passport in the world that carries the holders religion. Pakistan certainly is a real ‘big brother’ totalitarian state. Why this obsession with religion? There no Hindus in your land to distract you from ur religious rites. Muslims in India are free to preach and practice their religion. Religious restriction like the ones on Ahmadis are unthinkable in India. Secularism Zindabad. Recommend

  • M M Malik
    Nov 6, 2010 - 12:38AM

    This nation is alive and has a conscious which is tilted towards humanity. The number of comments on exhuming a body in an environment of suicide bombings, plane crashes, funerals and price hikes is heart warming.
    We have doctrinal differences with Ahmadis and we should mutually agree to disagree with their understanding of certain key beliefs. Making laws to curtail their activities and defining their religion for them is counter productive and against human rights. Why are we afraid of them, why do we always use street power, threats and numerical force to deal with them? Open, fair, civil and logical debates will certainly benefit everyone. Are we so bankrupt in defending our position that we withdraw and let a fringe few inept persons to deal with them?Recommend

  • Nov 6, 2010 - 5:01AM

    For all those who are here discussing the whole Ahmadi case, get a life. There are anti-Ahmadiyya fatwas from Saudi Arabia and Egypt in 70s when Ahmadis were declared non-Muslims. The fatwas have all the details why Ahmadis were declared non-Muslims.
    If Ahmadis claims them to be unjust, based on hearsay, false, hate-filled etc etc then they are welcome to challenge them. Use any platform, particularly OIC (Organization of Islamic Conference), UN (Human Rights), challenge notable scholars from different schools of thought live on TV … do whatever you can to keep the whole process transparent so that Mullahs don’t get to play their dirty game and people get to view the whole story from Ahmadi side regarding their faith (if what is available on internet or other reading materials is not true regarding Ahmadiyya faith). The clearer you are, the more people will support your cause.
    Either do it to prove the truth or stop whining and using semantics of 72/73 sects and Muslim definition as an emotional lever. Facts speak for themselves, so bring them forth in open debate with notable scholars of different schools of thought in Islam and be done with it.
    For the rest … get a life. We have a nation to save and all are wasting their lives away deciding who’s Muslim and who’s not.Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 6, 2010 - 9:34AM

    @Shinny Kaur. My Dear I am an Ahmadi and people of my community are being persecuted just like the Kashmiris in India. So don’t try to add fuel to the fire. Generally people in Pakistan are very tolerant towards us. It is the Mullahs and their touts who are the troublemakers, they are the ones who incite the ordinary people and threaten the government with dire consequences. Our leaders like yours are weak in their character and hence cannot face the religious clergy.
    As long as we understand where the problem is we will find a solution. Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 6, 2010 - 12:15PM

    @M M Malik, you have put it very well, what is the fear? Is it the same fear that forced the Kufaar to threaten the Holy Prophet (SAW) which forced him to migrate to Madina?
    Why should any one be worried if he changes his beliefs for the better. Only the Clergy fear as they loose hold on their followers. Same problem came up in the times of the Holy Prophet (SAW), as a result of which the Kufaar offered a treaty known as Sulah e Hudaibia. This treaty was and is a treaty between the righteous and wrong. Look at the law and ask yourself who stands on which side of the treaty.Recommend

  • G H Haider
    Nov 6, 2010 - 12:53PM

    The imperialist played with the sentiments of the raj soldiers by telling the Muslims that the cartridges have pig fat in them and to the Hindus that they have cow fat. The Mullas, who were mostly the raj’s allies are today continue playing with the sentiments of the masses. Their underlying hypothesis is that the Ahmadi body will pollute the graveyard and its soul may go to heaven.
    They forget that God is Almighty and All Wise. He and His angels have the power to distinguish between Muslims and non Muslims, between good and bad, between the heaven goers and hell bounds, they do not mix odds and evens. They forget that God created this universe and has absolute control over it, we are His slaves and we have no rights on Him, but He is Rahman and Raheem. He loves all his creation and expects us to do the same.
    By under-estimating the Almighty’s absolute powers and his compassion the mullas are in grave error. Recommend

  • Hassan Aftab
    Nov 6, 2010 - 1:18PM

    Some interesting questions.
    1) What about the graves of those Ahmadis who were buried in our graveyards before they were declared non Muslims?
    2) And what will be the status now of the marriages with Ahmadis when they were still Muslims ?Recommend

  • Babruk
    Nov 6, 2010 - 3:17PM

    i hate mullas and their rabble rousing. for God’s sake, show some tolerance. Ahamdis are fellow citizens please don’t treat them as third rate citizens.
    i am very disappointed with the larger section of my country. intolerance, violence, ignorance is becoming our trademark.
    I think i should better quit this land of the wretcheds.Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 6, 2010 - 5:32PM

    @Wasio Ali Khan Abbasi. Talking of fatwas, would you like to read the fatwas on the matters pertaining to Ahmadia faith given by the Al Azhar university some 100 years back or would you rather accept the fatwas given to please present day governments. have you ever wondered why the Ahmadia case was brought to the Parliament instead of the Courts, The anti Ahmadia riots of 1953 lead to the case being brought to the Courts. The famous Justice Munir report is full of evidence. Please take some time out and read it, it clarifies many things. As far as the proceedings of the National Assembly are concerned in 1974, they are all recorded. Try your luck and see if you can get a hold of those, that will help you to understand where the true conspiracy took place.Recommend

  • G H Haider
    Nov 6, 2010 - 8:19PM

    @Wasio Ali Khan Abbasi
    Spiritual matters are not decided by ayes and nays or by head counts. You talk about media debates, but who will allow or tolerate this. The 1974 proceeding declaring Ahmadis non-Muslims were held in camera, why have the proceedings / debate not been released by subsequent military and democratic governments? Their release will certainly make things clearer for all.
    I agree with you that we have a nation to save. The state has nothing to do with the religion of individual, as Jinnah made it amply clear in his 11th August 1947 address, ” You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State”.Recommend

  • Tony Khan
    Nov 6, 2010 - 8:35PM

    @Wasio Ali Khan Abbas
    “….and using semantics of 72/73 sects….”
    This is not mere word play, but a hadees and a prophecy of the Holy Prophet (saw) contained in the authentic books of hadeeses.Recommend

  • Farooq Khan
    Nov 6, 2010 - 10:01PM

    @ thanks Talha for clarifying what Qadyanis really are : non-Muslims.
    Period.Recommend

  • T R Khan
    Nov 7, 2010 - 9:07AM

    @Wasio Ali Khan Abbasi

    Explaining Ahmadi beliefs is invariably seen as preaching, which is mot allowed:

    ORDINANCE NO. XX OF 1984
    “Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves ‘Ahmadis’ or by any other name), who, directly or indirectly, poses himself as Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.”Recommend

  • T R Khan
    Nov 7, 2010 - 9:08AM

    @Wasio Ali Khan Abbasi
    Explaining Ahmadi beliefs is invariably seen as preaching, which is not allowed:
    ORDINANCE NO. XX OF 1984
    “Any person of the Quadiani group or the Lahori group (who call themselves ‘Ahmadis’ or by any other name), who, directly or indirectly, poses himself as Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine.”Recommend

  • Anis Qureshi
    Nov 7, 2010 - 10:00AM

    Pandora box of hatred and intolerance was opened by Bhutto in 1974 to gain political mileage and now pakistan is having difficulty to contain it. Everybody has a right to disagree with ahmadis but nobody has the right to call them non muslims( Be it assembly or fatwas of mullahs) if they claim themselves as muslims. If Allah didnot give this right to Holy prophet of islam to call munafiqeen nonmuslims in surah Munafeqoon than how dare these assemblies and mullahs have the right to call ahmadis non muslims. Allah knows who is behaving like muslims and who are behaving like opponents of prophets. Prohets are torch bearers of human dignity and human rights they dont teach hatred and intolerance. I wonder what kind islam are these so called sarkari muslims following (Maudoodis or wahabis I guess). Can anybody from sarkari mussalmans tell me the defination of muslim( Mullah were unable to do so in 1953 during muneers inquiry). In the end I ask sarkari muslims if they can tell me what good has been done to pakistan after declaring ahamadis as non muslims. Pakistan has been become a breeding ground for terrorists and pakistani nation has become a nation which is divided and in ruins and is under the WRATH of ALLAH. Pakistan can only survive if there is justice and respect for all human beings. Pakistani should stand up against mullahs and extremism if they want to save pakistan. Recommend

  • Humanity
    Nov 7, 2010 - 11:21AM

    @Wasio Ali Khan Abbasi “There are anti-Ahmadiyya fatwas from Saudi Arabia and Egypt in 70s when Ahmadis were declared non-Muslims. The fatwas have all the details why Ahmadis were declared non-Muslims…so bring them forth in open debate with notable scholars of different schools of thought in Islam and be done with it.
    For the rest … get a life. We have a nation to save and all are wasting their lives away deciding who’s Muslim and who’s not.

    The nation is killing each other exactly for who is or is not a Muslim. “We” have to save the nation from the nation itself.

    As to the validity of the fatwas .. The Prophet (SAW) advised who ever claims to be a muslin should be counted as a Muslim. No fatwa or debates of any notable scholar can ever overrule the fatwa of the Holy Prophet (SAW).

    As soon as the people understand this fact, they can start to save the nation. Otherwise they can and will continue to kill each other based on the fatwas of notable scholars.Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 7, 2010 - 3:28PM

    @ Farooq Khan

    I don’t really care what you think or classify Ahmadi’s as, believe me no one wants a certificate from Pakistan declaring them to be a Muslim.Recommend

  • zahid
    Nov 7, 2010 - 3:53PM

    “they sat all the day discussing! why people talk so much” common guys do your jobs and work hard for Pakistan. dont waste your time. Ahmadis are non muslims and they should be given all rights which any minority deserves. dont start fighting on every thing.Recommend

  • Nov 7, 2010 - 5:31PM

    Assalamo-Alaikum to all Brothers & Sisters

    I, in my own thought think that AHMADIES are non-muslim but they have constitutionals rights too, why we are discussing here? What for? Just think about our own selves that how much we are following our own knowledge of Islam ? Where we are going? We have only one thing to do is criticize on others “MASLAK” or “MAZHAB” but nothing to do? Why I don’t think about my self? Am I following the teachings of our prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.A.W)? If answer is yes than I will never spread hatred. If no than I must learn about Islamic teachings and should follow its true rules. every human is responsible of his/her own act. ALLAH (S.W.T) will certainly ask about your own life you spent in this mortal world and than about your family that what you have given/teaching them HARAM/HALAL. Think about it, Please this is my plea to all my brothers and sister. Forgive me if someone mind it. I am sorry about my poor English bcos I am only secondary school passed. May ALLAH (S.W.T) keep all the peoples under his blessings and kindness.

    Fi AmanALLAH to AllRecommend

  • arif
    Nov 7, 2010 - 7:03PM

    I think it is important to know that in the Grand Ahmadi graveyard (named Gunna Tu Albaqi, I think) in Rubwa, Muslims are not allowed to be buried :(

    Do not worry, Muslims might not wish to be buried in that graveyard, but Ahmadi’s always w…ish to get laid in it.

    Unfortunately, all Ahmadis are also not allowed to be buried there ( its really bad).

    Only those who have payed the Ahmadi Jamat a specific amount are allowed. The difference of rich and poor remains after death as well!!

    This poor man must have been refused by Ahmadi Jamat, first for burrial in the grand Ahmadi Graveyard, in Rubwa.

    Next, he must have been refused to be buried in the close by Ahmadi graveyard as well. That is why he was buried in Muslim graveyard. (The unfortunate Ahmadi)

    When some of the Mullas cried, then his relatives must have payed the necessary amount to the local Ahmadi graveyard organizers, and then with their approval, they transferred the dead person to the Ahmadi graveyard.

    His descendants tried to save money, but they had to pay, ultimately. Nothing is free, even burial!!

    It do not give any one an excuse to criticize God, Islam, or Pakistan. God have noting to do with this event, Islam is not a part of this discussion, Pakistan is you and you are Pakistan.

    Zia has nothing to give and take from this event. Ahmadi’s were declared ‘other than Muslims’ under the rule of Zulfiqar Ali Butto!!
    This was inferred from their own faith, not by the pressure of Mullas.Recommend

  • Parvez Mahmood
    Nov 7, 2010 - 9:41PM

    Shame on us Pakistanis and Muslims.
    The incident clearly shows that we should never never allow the clerics to rule our life. They have ruined us as human beings and Muslims. I think that we, as a civilized society, are no more!!Recommend

  • Talha
    Nov 8, 2010 - 2:17AM

    @ Arif

    Amazing nonsense stories that you people can conjure up out of nowhere. No wonder this nation is so devastatingly backwards.

    Pleaser ask the government to release the 1974 proceedings where the Ahmadi leadership had to defend their point of view.

    Why does the government not release the transcripts of those proceedings.

    What is there to hide? Recommend

  • rifak
    Nov 9, 2010 - 1:22PM

    Let the body RIP.Recommend

  • Nov 12, 2010 - 7:31AM

    we should have seperate graveyards for all mullahs – it will give the devil easier access to themRecommend

  • ahmed
    Nov 12, 2010 - 4:34PM

    we have Muslim buried in christian grave yard .what should we do, burn them?we need to start over . The current laws are not helpful.and neither are the mullah and politician.Recommend

  • Humanity
    Nov 16, 2010 - 9:49PM

    I would like to clear some miunderstanding against ‘Ahmedis’. The fact is that people just say and believe what they hear from other people. No one ever try to find oneself about the Ahmedi’s and their believe system. There are some propagandas as well against Ahemdis. Let me clear them first.

    Ahemdis recite the same Kalima as you people think recite by other so called Muslims as well. As a result one can not eject Ahemdis from the fold of Islam.
    Let me tell you all that Ahmedis do believe in the finality of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as the last messenger of Allah.

    Thirdly, after Kalima and believe on last Prophet (PBUH), there are other lots of things Muslims must follow and practice according to the guidelines of Islam. However today those who called themselves as Muslims they really do not act upon the teachings of Islam, in contrast Ahmedis do follow most of the teachings.

    So, one can not just declare Ahemdi person as Non-Muslim. It is just that we have different titles. Just to own the title of Muslim is not enough. If you call yourself as Muslim, then prove it thorough your actions and practices.

    Further, if you believe Ahmedis as Non-Muslims, even then this is not a good reason to hate them. Infact why to hate? then what about other Non-Muslims communities? Does this mean that then Muslims would start to hate all other religions? What about Humanity?

    I would also like to appreciate Mr. Saad for he said: “We, as Pakistani Muslims, love Ahmadis, for they are Pakistanis and that matters”. Now thats a good approach. This country came into being, with one of he focuses to have the freedom of religion. Please do not forget about HUMANITY.

    Thank You.Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Nov 16, 2010 - 9:51PM

    Christians are Non-Muslims, yet atleast they have some Humanity as Muslims are buried in Chirsitian graveyard. People talk about religion and forget about HUMANITY.Recommend

  • Anonymous
    Nov 19, 2010 - 4:37PM

    @ arif
    Their is nothing with the name of Gunna Tu Albaqi and neither thier is annything which deal with rich and poor so please dont talk about any thing which you dont know clearly
    secondly govt never ever have a right to interfare in ones releigion or decide wheather on is muslim or not
    if so is the case let the israel govt to decided that muslims should be killed all over the world and start obeying thatRecommend

  • sid
    Nov 20, 2010 - 4:05AM

    Once again this news paper has reported a news bulletin which it should not have, why are you hell bent to add fuel to fire. ever heard of responsible journalism? You are ones to be blamed. The people who did this are in some god forsaken village, these are the people who dont know how to read or write, they go ahead and do something insanely stupid, and here we have The tribune standing there to report this. Shame on you, grow up, be responsible, Pakistani people are already undergoing Allah’s wrath for our own deeds, don’t rub salt on wounds, bring about positive news so that the moral of people is lifted, rather than depressing cave age stories like this. Ahmedi’s think we are wrong, we think they are wrong, the world thinks muslims are wrong, we think the world is wrong, yet ALL want to go to heaven, ironic…when the truth shall reveal its self, a lot of people are going to feel stupid that day.Recommend

  • Mirza Naseer Ahmad
    Nov 22, 2010 - 12:51AM

    @Sid – What we are facing today is the result of what happened 50 years ago in a small village where the Mullah started to challenge the writ of the state. Since nobody pointed it out it went unchecked and the Mullah thought it was his right to preach his brand of Islam. Today you are crying about the terrorism we face today. Tomorrow you will cry when the whole Pakistan is Talibanised and only Mullah’s brand of Islam acceptable and you are forced to either accept his brand of Islam or face death. Recommend

  • Rana Amjad
    Nov 29, 2010 - 4:32PM

    Dear Ahmedi Brothers & Sisters, I am ashamed at our Mullah’s & clergy. May God have his curse on them. I am truly sorry & feel your pain. Please forgive us! Recommend

  • Ahmed
    Nov 29, 2010 - 8:45PM

    @Rana Amjad…That’s really shameful to curse our Ulema Karaam. If you are a muslim then may Allah guide you.Recommend

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