My first stop in India was Chandigarh, the planned city — much like Islamabad — which serves as the joint capital for the states of Punjab and Haryana. Being a historian, I was somehow thinking of Indian Punjab being as large as the ‘old’ Punjab and almost till Delhi. So, Chandigarh, being ‘near the edge of Punjab’ meant somewhere near Delhi. However, when I took a taxi from the Delhi airport to Chandigarh, I realised that it takes longer to drive from Delhi to Chandigarh than from Lahore! The ‘foreign’ city of Lahore is still closer to the heart of Indian Punjab than the union capital.
At Chandigarh, I was hosted by the Panjab University, which was set up by academics who left Lahore and the University of the Punjab in 1947. This ‘branch’ of the University of the Panjab (its old spelling), was first set up in Simla and then moved to Chandigarh in the late 1950s, but yet, it claimed its original foundation as 1882 in Lahore. To my knowledge, this is the only university to have split in this way, and this speaks volumes about the importance of the university and its ideals for its academics that it continued in this fashion. Interestingly, Aligarh, which was critical as the breeding ground of the Pakistan Movement, remained fully in India, and even the Aligarh academics who came over to Pakistan, did not set up a Pakistani version of the famed university.
While what was discussed at the Panjab University, and later at the Punjabi University in Patiala, deserves a separate article, I want to highlight here that I was extremely impressed by the rigour and academic ability present at these universities. Since both these universities were from the ‘other’ side of Punjab, I naturally compared them with the universities in Pakistani Punjab and found them to be much better in several ways. Their emphasis on the mother tongue, together with Hindi and English, their collaborative framework, where vice chancellors and deans did not hesitate from carrying even water bottles to the speakers (which most would scoff at in Pakistan), and the relative ease, openness and rigour with which academic discourse was carried out, clearly showed the difference between the academia of the two Punjabs. That said, the shared history, language and cultural links are still strong despite decades of enforced separation, and even I, a non-Punjabi, spoke there in Punjabi as I felt so much at home. I departed Indian Punjab with a plea to the state higher education minister, Sardar Sikandar Singh Maluka, who spoke so eloquently in Patiala, that let us leave the larger India-Pakistan dialogue to the centres, but let us, at least, increase people-to-people contact, especially among academics and students, so that we might learn from and help each other. Surely, such an initiative can be undertaken at the provincial level and I am sure our Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif will be very receptive to such an idea too.
My third conference was at the premier Indian think tank, the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses in Delhi. The conference theme was perceptions of India in the neighbouring countries, and it was heartening to see that Indians were interested in such a topic. Being the largest and most populous country in the region, India is the natural leader in South Asia. However, it must be cognisant of how its behaviour is perceived in neighbouring countries. The message at the conference from the leading thinkers of South Asian countries was that for South Asia to progress, and for Saarc to take life as the EU-style organisation for the region, India needs to develop a clear policy which takes along its neighbouring countries in a spirit of mutual respect and cooperation. The ambivalent attitude of India towards its neighbours and regional cooperation is preventing us from focusing on the primary duty of improving the lot of the millions of poor in the region. “India should act more like an Elder Brother than a Big Brother,” as one Indian commentator remarked.
Both India and Pakistan are separate sovereign countries, but are still tied to each other in several ways. Without compromising on our separate existence, we can still cooperate and transform the lives of the millions in the region, just as our founding fathers dreamt it. Let us redeem our tryst with destiny in full measure.
Published in The Express Tribune, November 5th, 2013.
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COMMENTS (102)
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Author, please visit lovely university in jallandhar too next time. Rab rakha
@@ET: Please dont do that..I personally love the rantings of Lala Gee,,,I also like the way he twists the news to suit his assertions,, I also love the way he bings up the fake history of millions of Buddhists being slaughtered by Hindus..... I also like the way he changes the topic when you challenge him and sometimes even try to point out our grammar mistakes to escape from the tight corner
We need people like Lala Gee,Indi,pendent,kaalchakra,antanu(who claims to be an indian) so that the comments section remain colorful
@@ET:
Many thanks Sir, for your support.
I have already written a detailed letter to blog@tribune.com.pk with Cc to web@tribune.com.pk giving specific instances of how this pest gets on everyone's nerves, and never makes any contribution to any healthy discussion, I suggest you also do it. If we can get rid of this particular pest it may be a welcome lesson for the other few lesser ones.
Support by all others is also solicited.
@wonder
"I shall petition ET. I hope you and many others will also join in this effort to depollute ET Blogs."
I support your petion. The comments should be on the topic and folks like Lala Gee should be carefully monitored.
ET: This is a request to you. Please make it public.
..Another Lala Gee from SFO
@Lala Gee:
Whoever followed the British and didn't oppose did it for a variety of reasons. You call it Constitutional, I call it a cop out.
You still didn't answer how Jinnah can be considered a Freedom Fighter? Just answer this one question..
Pakistanis can't manage their own country but always have advice on how to run ours.
@BruteForce:
"@Lala Gee: Basically you are contradicting yourself."
Can't you see the word "Mostly" in "Mostly criminals go there". Why Indian's brains are so empty of the essential organic stuff.
"Practicing law and being good at it means nothing if you end up following the Constitution and the Laws of the occupiers and the oppressors."
And those 500 million Indians who obeyed and followed the law for 200 years were traitors, fools, and cowards. What about Gandhi and the father of Nehru, Motilal, whom you place in so much high esteem, who also practiced and followed the same laws Jinnah followed. This is what you said about them.
"Nehru and Gandhi were Lawyers too. Nehru’s Father Motilal Nehru was one of the best and was reached heights Jinnah could only dream of."
"Malala recently at the speech in UN talks about Gandhi, NOT Jinnah."
And you Advocate for the very same RSS/BJP whose fanatics killed Gandhi.
"I don’t know whom you are trying to fool."
And I am sure, you're trying to fool none other than yourself.
@wonderer:
"I have been watching this pest for a long time now, and I feel it is the only fish which pollutes any lake of meaningful discussion on ET."
Hahaha. You mean busting Indian's propaganda with undeniable proofs and references. I can understand your frustration against me. After all, you're caught with your pants down.
"and why it is not against their rules to bar such people to indulge in their nefarious activities."
Isn't it you who said this on December 17, 2012 at 11:40 AM.
"@Lala Gee: You are very smart, but not smart enough. There are many more of us besides the ones you have listed. We are not the “same” but certainly “similar”. We are united in our endeavor to make the best use of the time we spend on blogosphere, exchange relevant information on topical matters to make a positive contribution, in a civil manner, ensuring harmony of thought and action. We also ensure that nay-sayers who try to vitiate the harmonious atmosphere are put in their place."
"I shall petition ET. I hope you and many others will also join in this effort to depollute ET Blogs."
To be fair, it is the Indian trolls who should be bared in order to depollute the ET's blogs from Indian propaganda.
@Lala Gee: We are not bothered what majority of kashmir thinks or not, but it always remains part of india.If you have guts then take it ha ha..!
@Lala Gee: First worry about baloch people then talk about kashmir blah blah blah.Even after 100000000 years kashmir will be the integral part of india.
@Lala Gee:
You said: "How going to jail makes you noble and not paying a visit there makes you worthless. Mostly criminals go there."
Now, you say this: "No, he(Nelson Mandela) is not(a criminal)."
Basically you are contradicting yourself.
Practicing law and being good at it means nothing if you end up following the Constitution and the Laws of the occupiers and the oppressors. There are many good lawyers in India and Pakistan today, they cannot be called great men or men of high moral fiber.
Nehru and Gandhi were Lawyers too. Nehru's Father Motilal Nehru was one of the best and was reached heights Jinnah could only dream of. Yet, he and his son joined Congress and eventually sacrificed everything for India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motilal_Nehru
Both Father and Son shunned all wealth and put it at the alters of India, shunned Western clothes and participated in non-cooperation. They are true revolutionaries.
I never said Jinnah was not a good lawyer. He being good or not is immaterial. Should he be called a Freedom Fighter? I don't see any reason why he should be..Neither have you presented any reason than present a theory and quickly contradict it.
Malala recently at the speech in UN talks about Gandhi, NOT Jinnah. I know you know the reason for this but not willing to admit it. I don't know whom you are trying to fool.
@Bakhtiyar Ghazi Khan:
How can there be any peace and commonality with a nation which rejects our right to exist?
I think you need to educate yourself better. Just find out two things (i) Did India oppose Pakistan's entry to the UN? (Afghanistan did) (ii) What does the visit of Indian PM to the Minar-e-Pakistan mean?
And, do tell me- What is meant by Ghazwa-e-Hind?
Until Indians come to term with the reality of Pakistan (and Kashmir),
Well. India entered the Shimla Agreement with Pakistan, releasing 93,000 Pakistani war prisoners. And Article 370 of the Indian Constitution deals with Kashmir. So it seems India has come to terms with the 'reality'. Thank You.
They are still obsessed with the impossible notion of undoing partition,
GOD FORBID. Please say 'Amen'. I beg of you.
@Galuru Ben: @Another Lala Gee from SFO:
Many thanks to you both for your kind words. They mean a lot to me.
Please see my last reply to this pest.
I have been watching this pest for a long time now, and I feel it is the only fish which pollutes any lake of meaningful discussion on ET. It never talks about the subject of the article or the comments. It is there only to perform the duty of some sort of a cop. Appreciation of anything is not in its mental capabilities. I do not know why ET permits such actions, and why it is not against their rules to bar such people to indulge in their nefarious activities.
I shall petition ET. I hope you and many others will also join in this effort to depollute ET Blogs.
Regards,
wonderer.
@BruteForce:
"So Nelson Mandela is a criminal."
No, he is not. But he was neither a top-notch law expert like Jinnah. He failed in the finals of his undergraduate studies 3 times, and eventually denied degree in 1949.
@Lala Gee: In your country minorities are every day slaughtered you first worry about them.
@Jag Nathan: Thats It Mr Nathan. You have clearly said what in your mind. But frankly speaking who the Dumb is telling you that we Pakistanies are thinking of to join India again???????. Your words must be read by some of your friends like Marvi Sarmad, Dr Pervaiz Hoodbhoy, Kishwar Naheed and fellows of SEFMA (U dont know them?? oh come on.... they are your friends).
@wonderer:
"My special offer to you contained in my previous reply to you stands WITHDRAWN because it is now proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you are unworthy of even pity."
LOL.
@Surya:
"@ Lala Gee, who are you to speak for Kashmiris? I am a Kashmiri Pandit and a proud Indian."
"Love how Lala Gee avoids my question."
Who are you by the way? The President (s)elect of the Indian Occupied Kashmir? Or, nobody? You do not represent the Kashmiri majority in any manner. Moreover, if you can speak for the Pakistani Hindus, which you guys do on this forum so vehemently and vigorously, then we also have the right to speak for the rights of our enslaved Kashmiri brothers.
Looks like Lala Gee is on PMS...
The master of deception who knows how to divert a topic when cornered.....
@wonderer: I wouldn't reply to Lala Gee if I were you. He epitomises the very defect that you mention in your original post.
@wonderer: I read you background from the redirect from your comments here. I recommend everyone to read that before making a judgement about comments posted by Mr/Ms wonderer. Respect! For your thoughts and loyalty to Pakistan!! ..Peace ET: I f you do not post this, I am not sure what is the right etiquette. //Rgds
[ET Moderators. Kindly permit as the final nail in a fitly coffin. Thanks!]
@Lala Gee:
Ignored as promised; with the contempt you richly deserve.
My special offer to you contained in my previous reply to you stands WITHDRAWN because it is now proven beyond any reasonable doubt that you are unworthy of even pity.
@Bakhtiyar Ghazi Khan: Pakistan part of middle east???? I thought only history was screwed in Pakistan. Seems like Geography is down the hill too.By the way Saudis are throwing their "middle eastern" Pakistani brothers out of their country.Did your government do something about it?
Love how Lala Gee avoids my question.
Unfortunate how a positive article has see the flow of comments degrade so quickly.
@Lala Gee: Dear Lala Gee: The way you post comments, it make it obvious that you are from the US and probably born in Asia.
A rebuttal from another person from in SFO, CA, fyc;
Pls try getting a VISA to Vietnam, it will be definitely more difficult than getting one for South Korea? Korea. Does that mean Vietnam is more advanced than S. Korea? No!
India is not US and US is not India.
Some things are harder to come by; hence cherished, when achieved. Ground reality. Sorry! ..Peace
ET: If do not publish this, pls let me know what was wrong? Of Course by the stated policies. Rgds//
@Bakhtiyar Ghazi Khan: "such as the 1 million Muslim Punjabis massacred in Indian Punjab"... you make it sound as if you are an authority on history and know all the facts about partition. For your information, there have been casualties on both sides and while people like me may not have directly experienced, my father and grandfather have surely experienced those traumatizing times since they migrated from Pakistan in 47. Inspite of all that has happened, there are people on either side who would like to move on and mend the ties for a peaceful coexistence and better future. There has been too much senseless violence. Btw, has your family been directly affected by partition?
@Lala Gee: Why so much pride in watching English movies. These are the same people who kicked out the Mughalia Saltanat and beheaded two princes of Bahadur Shah and jailed him for life in Burma .... what a slap on face of Hindostan and his Badshah. Are you not doing .........some thing wrong. We are much closer and part of same history so watch our films and NOT English
@Bilal Jan: Sir, you are talking about school books of Pakistan. Are you aware that, not others but eminent writers and people in Pakistan are saying that these books are spreading miss information and are totally spreading wrong history.
@Lala Gee: You sarcasm to wards the writer speaks a ton about your small heart and spiteful nature. See the reality as seen by the world and come out of your cocoon.
@Zayyad: May be you are right but does that mean that you can not see our good points and strengths also and pounce on a writer who has written some facts and that too for the good of Pakistan.
@bilal: Does it not sound a little strange to you that any one who speaks favorably about India is immediately perceived in Pakistan as biased/ obsessed/ anti Pakistan. Instead of looking at the points raised by the author on his first hand experiences during visit you have dismissed him in one word. Sir, you will be surprised to know that in India we appreciate Panjabi (look at Bollywood) songs/ Pakistani songs (look at the appreciation and fans of Mehdi Hasan, Ghulam Ali, Abida Begam, Reshma, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and many more), food, cloths, Urdu language and above all people. If we do so it does not mean that we in any way do not love India. For progress it is necessary to appreciate and learn from all good things. Regards.
@ Lala Gee, who are you to speak for Kashmiris? I am a Kashmiri Pandit and a proud Indian.
What a time wasted article. BTW what are you trying to say????
seriously a time wasted article. BTW what are you trying to say?????
@Lala Gee:
So Nelson Mandela is a criminal.
Whose laws and Constitution were the people you are defending following? The occupier's laws are worth respecting?
[ET Moderators. This is extremely important. Kindly oblige.]
@Lala Gee:
We meet again. You have not been tracking me adequately. Otherwise this comment of yours would have been unnecessary. All your doubts will be removed by the following (I copy-paste from my reply to another insolent doubting character like you)
Those who doubt my intentions are advised to see my comments (particularly the first one and the one in reply to @antanu) on an article on the following link:
http://tribune.com.pk/story/606012/talk-to-the-taliban-but-from-a-position-of-strength/#comments
If ever in future you have doubts about the value of my comments as compared to yours, please just see the number of ‘Recommends’ on each. I do not play the game you are so fond of.
I should have ignored your comment as per my earlier warning to you, but I wanted to make to you a completely selfless, and very generous offer. If you are desirous of becoming a better Muslim and a better human being I have just the right thing for you. It is FREE and with no obligations. I shall reveal it to you if you specially and expressly ask for it. Many have benefitted from it earlier, and many are currently.
This is my last reply to you. You shall be completely ignored hereafter. (My above offer to you excluded)
@JSM:
"@Lala Gee: We have not forgotten 1947 either."
Excellent. Always remember 1947 happened, and for sure could happen again and again until you stop treating your minorities with contempt and indignation and slaughtering them in genocides like you did in 1984, 1992, 2002. This is the reason Kashmiris still don't want to live with you despite your 66 years long machinations.
@Lala Gee: We have not forgotten 1947 either.
Arey, Dr.Bangash went on to speak at the University of Panjab and was impressed with it. Everything looked so glittering and intellectual there. Like Cambridge of the East, the University of Panjab is busy with knowledge production. So much so, they invited one Indophile Pakistani to speak to them and teach them. That's how the produce knowledge there.
Dr. Bangash too was invited to speak at the "premier Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses in Delhi". If you have been reading Dr.Bangash, you know why he was the apt choice picked by the "institute". He surely fawned the Indians enough to anoint India as the "natural leader" of South Asia. The next visa application will be smoother.
@Teda Mahalingam:
"Partition is not complete."
You're absolutely right. Partition is not not complete, yet. May your tribe of honest people grow by leaps and bounds. The more people like you, the more certainty of Indian Sub-Continent reverting back to its natural units, currently artificially bound together. By the way, why Sikhs would want to migrate to India. They haven't forgotten the 1984 Sikh holocaust yet.
I taught in both the Universities. Next time please do visit Guru Nanak Dev University Amritsar, you will be showered with rose petals.
Bakhtiyar Ghazi Khan As an Indian, i fully agree with you. Now a small matter is still pending since 47. Partition is not complete. I sincerely hope that India and Pakistan use UNO platrform to arrange the safe migration of Musalmans from India to Pakistan and all Hindus and Sikhs to India.Being leader of Ummah, most powerful islamic nation, it dont behoove you to leave so many of co-brothers and sister in kaffilr land. We might even sweeten the deal with additional 12% water flow to Pakistan from India ,free of charge. Look at this way , for each safe Hindu and Sikh we are willing to reciprocate with 50 Muslamans as reward for you.
How can there be any peace and commonality with a nation which rejects our right to exist? Until Indians come to term with the reality of Pakistan (and Kashmir), then there will never be peace. They are still obsessed with the impossible notion of undoing partition, which will never happen. This article flies in the face of all those who sacrificed for Pakistan, such as the 1 million Muslim Punjabis massacred in Indian Punjab, 100,000 Kashmiri Muslims kidnapped/tortured/raped/murdered by the Indian army, and countless Indian Muslims killed while making the trip to Pakistan.
I suggest the author take a visit to Azad Kashmir and the border areas in Punjab to hear the stories of those people who suffered the most due to India's invasions and genocidal policies against Muslims for 66 years.
@wonderer: Your comment gives hope to something that I had considered hopeless.
@Anti dote: What are you talking about? & what are you smoking…? Even indians are more happy to get an american visa than staying in india…
Err... Perhaps that is because they do not need to get an Indian visa?
Well-done Mr. Bangash! I am glad you keep writing such pieces, which can help improve relations between India and Pakistan. I hope your articles also inspire your readers to think about these matters and reflect on what each one of us can do in his or her individual capacity. I also feel strongly that we Pakistanis are good at advising others, particularly India, but leave much to be desired when it comes to accepting even well intentioned advice from anyone. We also tend to start searching for hidden conspiracies if someone even hints at what is wrong with us. We need to be more open-minded for our own good.
Your visit to India was actually only to North India. We Pakistanis have little knowledge about what is actual India, so much so that we tend to not even think about the rest of India. We need to know India better, especially the parts in the East and South where the Muslim population is proportionately larger. Only then we will be able to appreciate India’s behavior. On the other hand, Indians know us much better.
In the light of what you have written I would like to point out two aspects, which require greater effort on our part. You posit India as the elder brother and write, quite rightly,
“……India needs to develop a clear policy which takes along its neighbouring countries in a spirit of mutual respect and cooperation.”
Does is not also imply that the neighbouring countries should show the spirit off mutual respect and cooperation? Let us look at our own record as far as “mutual respect” goes. Do we respect India as much as say, Shahbaz Sharif respects Nawaz Sharif? Are we satisfied with our own actions? And, about “cooperation”? Have we ever cooperated with India? I do not think so. We are renowned for creating hurdles. The truth is we actually hate India and Hindus at all levels of society. Ask any primary school toddler.
We must realise that respect and cooperation, are not one-way-streets.
You also write, quite rightly again,
“…….we can still cooperate and transform the lives of the millions in the region……..”
Has Pakistan done all it can? Has India done nothing? We must think about these aspects, and introspect instead of advising. We would like to see India, as the PM implied recently, reduce its defense budget, nuclear developments and arms purchases so as to stop “arms race” with Pakistan. Are India facing threats only from Pakistan? Is our expectation realistic? Let me spell out in clear terms what exactly we want from India, and why we are always advising India.
We would like India to destroy its nuclear bombs so that we can do the same to reduce our burgeoning expenses. India should reduce its army so that we can also do that. India should vacate its “unlawful occupation” so that our forces can walk in and take Kashmir. India should remove its forces from our borders so that we can concentrate on Afghanistan. India should not use water of “our rivers” despite the IWT. India should accord due respect to our “non-state-actors”. The list goes on with hundreds of other such self-serving wishes. Why? Because, we have to urgently take care of our teaming millions who are procreating at all-time high rates. We promise India peace in return, till we need something more. Why do we expect from India what even Allah will deny us? *“Zarra Sochiye”.*
@Shail Arora: I wish to add.....and also the Indian Muslims should look to Arabia and other Islamic countries for their inspiration and growth, what a petty thinking.Indian Muslims are quiet happy without looking forward to Arabia or other nations and they do go to Arabia as pilgrims like many other Muslims do.
Contrary to all the negative comments the article gives a positive feel and as neighbours it is important we have more such contacts to broaden our vision and outlook.depending on media fed reports will never be true or help us.Let us see first hand what the ground realities are and in this context this is a very good article not because it is about India but it is about people.
@Lala Gee: There is no question of anyone lining up the streets to seek entry to US embassies.which world are in?It is all online and very professional and you enter on time and exit equally smooth.Nobody waits anywhere at least in India.
ETBLOGS1987
@Lala Gee: Going to jail per se does not make you noble. Going to jail as a freedom fighter implies that you resisted the British. Not going to jail for a single day means that you did not resist the British who were putting all resistance leaders in jail for years.
Mr Bangash is wrong on so many occasions in this article, that it will take a while to reply to all of these points. I dont know where to start, may be some other time, cant be bothered. But this type of writing can only happen on ET.
"My friends got more excited about my Indian visa than when I obtained an American one"...
What are you talking about? & what are you smoking...? Even indians are more happy to get an american visa than staying in india...
Mr Bangash, there is some Serious Identity Crisis going on with yourself...
@BruteForce:
"Jinnah, Liaquat, Suharawardy never went to jail, never sat on the Satyagraha, never fasted for peace, never been beaten black and blue by the British."
How going to jail makes you noble and not paying a visit there makes you worthless. Mostly criminals go there. If you can get something by following law, only fools will break the law to get it (and go to jail). Muslim League leadership got what they wanted without going to jail by keeping their struggle within the bounds of law. This is rather their great achievement and success instead of failure.
You know we could for a start look at the commonalities between Punjabi in the Shahmukhi script and Punjabi in the Gurmukhi script.
Same language ; two scripts ; same cultural and historcal roots.
All are from GREATER PUNJAB.
@Anjaan:
"@ lala Gee, The answer to your questions is simple ….. just ask yourself why the entire Pakistani nation, in addition to a large part of Asia and Africa, remains glued to Indian cinema and TV, day in and day out …. and not that of American …… !! ."
You're assuming too much. Generally, it is the poor and illiterate in Pakistan who watch Indian movies, as this is the cheapest entertainment available to them (mostly free). The educated watch English movies and serials. There is also another reason some young people (mostly male) watch Indian movies, but I can't elaborate on that here. To gauge the real popularity of Indian moves in Pakistan, check how many people watch Indian movies in cinemas and how much business your movies do in Pakistan? I am sure, Negligible. Moreover, I can tell you that even those who watch, their number is rapidly on the decline; not linearly, but exponentially. Nowadays, Turkish serials dubbed in Urdu or the favorite.
@Komal S:
"@Lala Gee: Looks like you are running out of substance for your anti-India tirade...... India sent it’s army at the invitation of the Sri Lankan government. India is guilty of being aloof to the Sri lankan problem."
I don't know if this is your ignorance or deliberate effort to fool the unsuspecting, read the section "Indian Support" in the Wikipedia entry on Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) describing in detail the India's role in training, arming and financing this terrorist outfit. I am sure, Sri Lankan government did not ask for the favor. Here is a quick brief.
"from August 1983 to May 1987, India, through its intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), provided arms, training and monetary support to 6 Sri Lankan Tamil militant groups including LTTE. During that period, 32 camps were set up all over India to train these 495 LTTE militants,[39] including 90 women who were trained in 10 batches.[40] First batch of Tigers were trained in Establishment 22 based in Chakrata, Uttarakhand. The second batch, including LTTE intelligence chief Pottu Amman,[41] trained in Himachal Pradesh. Prabakaran himself visited the first and the second batch of Tamil Tigers to see them training.[42] Eight other batches of LTTE were trained in Tamil Nadu."
@Lala Gee:
That could actually explain why Pakistanis are not too excited about holding Pakistani passports!
@Bakhtiyar Ghazi Khan: Since you've brought up the Muslim card, In case you haven't noticed, we have a large Muslim population too, do you mean to imply that they share different beliefs than you and only people like you are true Muslims?
@bilal: No Bilal, the author has an enlightned mind and is a realist.
@Lala Gee:
Can you tell me where exactly is this East Pakistan ? Near Wagah border ?
Pakistan has nothing in common with India, except that India is our eternal enemy and responsible for much of the suffering of Pakistanis throughout our history. Furthermore, India/Indian products are synonymous with cheapness and lack of quality in Pakistan, and the rest of the world. This really isn't what we should model ourselves after. Pakistan's exports are valued for the quality and workmanship, and we should keep that level of quality and authenticity.
As Muslims and part of the Middle East, we should look towards Arabia, Turkey, Malaysia, and Iran for inspiration. I ask the author to visit some of these Muslim countries as well and write about it. Looking forward to your thoughts.
Title does not correspond with the matter in the article. Writer did not made any addition to the knowledge of the reader. just rhetoric.
@Lala Gee: Look at the level of havoc India created in present Pakistan, East Pakistan, and Sri Lanka through terrorist outfits. Welcome to the 21st century. East Pakistan, along with most the other conspiracies that you list, only exists in your imagination.
An excellent article. It is people like the author, who foster harmony and dialogue. Specially among two homogeneous people.
Very well written. Hope you enjoyed your visit.
@Zayyad: Some people may prefer to starve rather than beg. The greatness of any people or country is a belief that we must stand on our own feet and work to create our own destiny, rather than taking comfort in fatalism. As long as conviction and will exists, everything can be achieved as the human mind has limitless capabilities that have not yet been exploited fully. Living in delusion and believing in conspiracies, is not the road to travel.
@BlackJack:
"the first of which on the trade side is the reciprocation of the MFN and on the military side, closing of jihadi camps."
Please, please reciprocate on MFN, and take back this unasked-for facility (rather a Barrier albeit Non-Tariff) benefiting only India. We don't want it. On military side (sponsoring terrorism in other countries), Pakistan gets only 0.5 marks compared to India's 99.5 marks. Look at the level of havoc India created in present Pakistan, East Pakistan, and Sri Lanka through terrorist outfits. By the way, which India's neighboring country has not suffered from your machinations and has cordial relation with India. This is exactly when people use the maxim "Chore Machaaye Shore".
Looking forward to the followup article on the conferences.
India is a great country with rich culture.India is a land of oppurtunity for our artists.Sadly our politicians and most of our people never understand the reality.
India is India and Pakistan is Pakistan and never the twain shall meet...
@bilal: grow up. still you have time.
I am nitpicking, but I would have liked your travelogue better if you stepped outside of the well tread Wagah-Chandigarh-Delhi route. The only other places I have seen Pakistanis visit are Agra amd Ajmer. Might I suggest a trip to West Bengal, the south of India or Mumbai?
Panjab University has been rated number 1 in India according to one international ranking. Your observation of the chancellors and deans carrying water bottles to the speakers is interesting.
Regarding Elder Brother, Big Brother, etc., I disagree with you. I prefer India's ambivalent attitude. One cannot change one's neighbors, so it is better to stay aloof and maintain a civil relationship. For instance neither the US, UK or China behave as an elder brother to anyone. Even in real life, when a next door husband and wife get into a vocal argument, I stay away from it. They will make up eventually but if one gets involved there is a good likelihood that both of them will blame you.
Only in a coincidence of interests such as that of India right now with Bangladesh does it make sense for India to be brotherly.
@Lala Gee: Did not think such a simple statement from the author would get you worked up! Pakistanis/Indians visit each other countries for a different reason than visiting US. It has a strong emotional connect. The fact is if we have open visa regime we will have more Pakistanis/Indians visiting each other more than visiting US.
I did not like the word enforced separation. If you are a historian as you claim, go back to 8th grade history book and read about creation of Pakistan.
DR Bangash you are a good man at heart but a great discredit to TNT :-))) Talking about shared history, culture and what not...
We can set aside the implacable, ideological hostility of Pakistan and look at other south Asian countries. All countries have at least some disputes with neighbors. US has disputes with Canada and Mexico. China has disputes with mos neighbors, Japan has disputes with China and Korea. Nothing extraordinarily unusual about our relationships with our other neighbors. But agree with your sentiment that leadership requires extra effort on the part of India.
@ Lala Gee It takes lot of effort for the Indians to screen Pakistani visa applications to make sure Dr Bangash is not Lala Gee.
@Lala Gee:
Lala Gee, what is your point? Visiting a super power is more significant than visiting another country?
You are making your own assumptions and writing nonsensical comments.
Author's point was simple: it is more exciting and difficult to visit a country like India for a Pakistani, than visiting USA.
Exciting has got nothing to do with the richness of your destination.
@Zayyad: Starving India ? from where you got this information mate ? As per the latest statistics, India's poverty has come down to 22% from 37% in the last ten years, where as Pakistan's poverty has increased to 40%. Get the facts right
Jag Nathan
While what you wrote is true now, that situation is the outcome of the misguided ideology imposed by the Pakistani state educated elite and their followers on the people of Punjab, Sindh, Balochistan and Pakhtoonwa. We were the same people. Coming to the present day, we have our problems like any normal nation. People like Mr Bangash who can see the role of wrong policies and know where both India and Pakistan began from are worth their weight in gold.
@Zayyad: You can close your eyes and pretend it's night and even try to convince everyone to believe it too, the reality however is very different my friend. Yes there is poverty in India and we are trying to overcome that and succeeding too, but one can't deny the tremendous progress India has made in every sphere. It's increasingly affluent middle class alone is bigger than twice the population of Pakistan, there are world-class universities the fruits of which India is now enjoying as more and more highly qualified professionals are contributing in nation building (check out the profile of R. Raghurajan, Gov. of the Reserve Bank of India) We have a healthy political system which regularly throws up grassroots leaders as worthy contenders of leading the nation. The Indian economy is growing steadily and on its way to firmly establish itself as the third biggest in the world (it's already the 3rd largest when you consider PPP). But most importantly it's the tolerance, open-mindedness and dedication in the youth that's driving this change. I can go on and on...but that's besides the point as the purpose is not to prove India's credentials before my Pakistani friends. The reason I chose to reply to you is to underscore the point that in order to progress it's important to first accept the reality. If India could do it (and there is a lot more to be done) so can Pakistan if its people get better education which will lead to a society where reason is preferred over jingoism. The choice is clear - pretend everyone is worse than you and dream on or accept the current situation and work towards improving it.
@rasgullah: Agree with you 100%. How about a deal: Take the whole of Kashmir and also the remaining Muslims. We would be the most peaceful country in the world.
I have always enjoyed Prof. Bangash's articles. They show his thinking which is unbiased. He does not criticise India because it is the norm in Pakistan but always is fair. He is a true intellectual.
I appreciate Mr. Bangash's nice words about India and his good experience. The only thing I must clarify here is that most of us Indians have little in common with Pakistan. We may share some of the languages and some foods. But that's where it stops. Some of our left of center citizens yearn for that special relationship with Pakistan. But for the majority of us, Pakistan represents fanaticism, terrorism, intolerance, and a permanent threat to India. And I am quite sure a good number of Pakistanis also harbor similar views about India, justified to some extent. The fact is we are two people and it was a good thing Jinnah demanded and got a separate nation. Honestly, if tomorrow Pakistan wanted to come back into the Indian union, the vast majority of us would be fanatically against such a union.
It was not an enforced separation, but a desired separation by the Muslims. And India should be thankful for that as the most extremist prone areas are out of India.
"Getting a visa to India is always a special occasion for a Pakistani. My friends got more excited about my Indian visa than when I obtained an American one"
Really!!! Seriously which world you live in? Has India taken over the place of America as super power, or have become the richest country on earth, or have surpassed America in new inventions, discoveries, and research. Why don't I see long lines of Americans in front of Indian consulates for getting Indian immigration like the Indians lining in front of US consulates in India till this very morning.
I wish the author might have cared to explain a bit more the "the relative ease, openness and rigour" that he noticed in India with some context. Otherwise, I hope the author had a good time in India. Best. SM
Very well written - hope you continue to have good experiences and are able to visit India without difficulty. I also agree that India needs to engage with its neighbors in a more effective manner, although that prescription may not fit the Indo-Pak relationship which is bedeviled by issues that mere engagement cannot address. Hope for a EU style SAARC is also a bit far-fetched - let us move in manageable increments, the first of which on the trade side is the reciprocation of the MFN and on the military side, closing of jihadi camps. Do not assume that without addressing these problems, we will move any closer to a solution, or any closer at all.
RESPECT.
Good article. Hope u enjoyed ur visit.
All good - but i didnot understand the big deal about Chandigarh being closer to Lahore than Delhi. Great Cities much bigger than Chandigarh like Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad, Trivandrum are closer to Sri Lanka than Delhi. Calcutta and Patna and Bhubaneshwar are closer to Bangladesh than Delhi. Entire North East India - with Seven States are closer to China and Bangladesh than Delhi. Finally Mumbai is closer to Pakistan than Delhi - I really don't get the point?
I don't understand that why a section of our population has an inferiority complex infront of the caste system ridden,immensely poor and starving India. At a time,when they are a party to the raging insurgencies in our lands(no conspiracy theory,even the Americans and the Indian General admitted to this)-a section of our population including our PM is heads over heels in love with them.
The author is surely obsessed with India