The writer is a consulting editor with The Statesman and writes widely for several newspapers in India
Both India and Pakistan will not tolerate a sneeze from the other side without opening a paraphernalia of forensic science but, will stand like dummies when the US manipulates both at will. Pakistan barely squeaks about drone attacks and the manner in which the US has, over and over again, violated its sovereignty, rushing to assure every official American visitor that Islamabad is an ally and a friend and should be treated as such. But then, Pakistan is a small country, weighed under bad policies that legitimised terrorism and violence over the years.
What about India? It is a large country. It is a democracy. It is supposedly growing. Why do governments forget this and turn India turtle for a kick or a pat whenever the Americans so demand.
There is no excuse for Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid actually excusing the US for “snooping” and insisting that its intensive surveillance programme was only a “computer and analysis of patterns”. He went to the extent of supporting the US argument in the wake of whistleblower Edward Snowden’s revelations that the surveillance had been used by the Americans to “prevent serious terrorist attacks in several countries”. This support embarrassed the government that fielded a joint secretary to counter the minister’s remarks by admitting that the surveillance was a little more than computer analysis. Even so, instead of a demarche that governments often issue at the drop of a hat, or strong censure, the UPA has decided to soft pedal the issue instead of examining the very serious ramifications of this surveillance.
A second shift in the Indian foreign policy position has become evident after the visit of US Secretary of State John Kerry to India, recently. Mr Khurshid has now announced that New Delhi is not averse to a role for the Taliban in the peace process in Afghanistan. He chose to make this announcement not in New Delhi or through a MEA statement, but while addressing the 20th Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Forum in the Bruneian capital Bandar Seri Begawan. “This dialogue,” the minister said, “must involve all sections of the Afghan society and armed opposition groups, including the Taliban.” This is a major departure from the Indian position that opposed such a dialogue and insisted that there was no difference between the good and the bad Taliban, as Pakistan had been insisting. The process through which the government changed its position and decided to support talks with the Taliban, has of course not been shared with the country, leading to the assumption that this shift came at the insistence of John Kerry.
A third indication of continuing US pressure was New Delhi’s immediate, in fact, earlier than others, denial of asylum to Edward Snowden. India was on Snowden’s wish list of countries to which he had applied for asylum, but New Delhi denied this request within hours. This despite the fact that India has given political asylum to a large number of persons in the past, including the high-profile Dalai Lama, Tamil separatists and others. In this case, however, the government did not want to sour relations with the US even though it is one of the countries that the Americans have placed under their surveillance scanner.
The leeway given to the West is thus huge and one cannot help think of how often Islamabad and New Delhi are at each other’s throats for being a little out of sync. War drums are beaten and threats and angry words are exchanged before the two agree to ride over the obstacle one more time. But the US can bruise sentiments, override international law, kill citizens, frame individuals and spy on South Asian missions without a murmur of dissent.
And then, we say we are independent, we have thrown the British out, we are sovereign. Sovereignty is not just about territorial boundaries. It is about peoples and mindsets. And clearly, our governments need to shed the mindset of the past to infuse new meaning into a term that has been overused and abused by the political class.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 6th, 2013.
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COMMENTS (94)
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@Gp65: I've a lot to say such as -why love of Muslims for Modi is not reflected in the guys they vote for, not even in former NDA partner Nitish Kumar; or why you have no issues with American establishment for their role in the bloodbath of Kashmir; or in what context MMS made that statement (Hint: North Indian Muslims, dalits and tribals lead in race to the bottom); or how many riots in last 10 years killed a thousand as happened in 2002 and early 1990s; or what role Godse's fans and Jansangh (mother of BJP) played in India's constitution (Hint: A number that is circle shaped). But anyway I rest my case for the silent observer to judge.
@Razi: Can't blame gp65, Lecturing others is easy, practicing in our own lives difficult. Btw Devout hindus don't agree with Hindutva guys (Gandhi was quite devout). Devout Hindus see it as karmic sin to harm even animals (Jeevs or Praanis) let alone humans. Hindutva ideology has far more to do with politics than faith. Founder of Hindutva -Savarkar and his modern followers such as Balasaheb Thakre were infact self declared atheists. Pease note that this does not mean the atheists or agnostics amongst Hindus are communal (Nehru being a good example). It is just a tiny dynamic clique, oxygen and followers to whom are provided by Communalists of other religion. For instance, One of the comments by 'Ghori' guy on this page is perhaps perfect propaganda piece for RSS. Similarly Youtube speeches of VHP, Bajrang Dal, Shiv sena can turn an ordinary Muslim guy into a Hindu hater. As they say, Both love and hate are contagious.
@Razi: A sustained attack by anybody on a person (a witty swipe once in a way is fine), religion, nation etc may not be a nice thing.To each his own though. (2) It is incorrect to imply that a devote Hindu,ipso facto,is a supporter of Hindu right wing. Had that been so BJP would have swept to power even before it was born! There are many in Congress & other anti-BJP regional parties, apart from their millions of supporters, that are devote Hindus & there are many agnostics within BJP too. The man who coined the word "Hindutva" (Savarkar) of Hindu Mahasabha was an atheist.(3) BJP is not a Secular party by any stretch but it claims to be one; it officially believes in constructing temple in place of mosque whose demolition its leaders oversaw, & wants to get rid of Muslim personal laws & renege on the deal entered with J&K State regarding its special status. Till now BJP has not won Parliament by itself; its coalition partners had been a civilising, restraining influence hitherto. But if ever BJP comes to power on its own with sufficient majority to amend Constitution, today's fig leaf will fall & India will cease to be a a secular country even on paper.
@Naveen Indian constitution gives universal suffrage unlike the proposal by Cabinet Mission that was rejected by Nehru and Patel. Furthermore the method of winning a seat is first past the goal post system and you may perhaps be aware that in both last elections Congress had less than 40% votes.
All Indians have to submit to this constitution and the minorities are no exception. Those Muslims who are not okay with one person one vote should go to the country that was created for them. In India, they are equal citizens and do not have a veto.
Your response to @Arijit Sharma is thus without merit.
@Naveen
You will see hordes of Indians rushing to the defence of gp65 on these pages. I have been reading her comments for a long time now, and can say with confidence that in most cases, she writes to 'prove' how good and upright Indians are (particularly in comparison to Pakistanis, but also generally) and how bad and "hypocritical" Pakistanis generally are (her recent statement in response to one of your comments, notwithstanding). She also seems to be a devout Hindu and that makes it natural for her to vigorously defend the right-wing Hindu parties and personalities. Calling BJP secular really takes the cake though; pigs might as well fly! That she misses the irony in all this, considering her lectures to Pakistanis and her constant 'fact-laden' indictment of Muslims, is not surprising. That's what most people with a certain popular understanding of patriotism and religiosity usually do.
You are a welcome relief from the typical, constantly-abuse-Pakistanis-and-Muslims mentality Indian commentators who hog the comment sections.
@Naveen: " ... First of all, Thanks for being honest and truthful & helping substantiate my charges ( infact I wasn’t expecting that somebody would even have the gall to say that a community has agreed to be ‘submitted’ by the other). ... "
Leftist activism does cloud the mind. Look, when I vote I have to choose between the country's progress as a whole vs. inconveniencing a set of people. I will choose the former.
@Gp65: Though I was in Upper kindergarten back then (so don't have any recollectable memory of those times) but from whatever information I have with me right noe, It seems to me that You've chosen to ignore that there was a nasty chain of events initiated by 'secular' BJP that eventually culminated in those attacks and riots throughout India (not just Mumbai). Even Mumbai's secular underworld became communal from then on.
Btw CEC does not issue any certificates for secularism. Legally, It is not Parties but the State which is bound by Secularism. Even MIM is allowed to contest but that doesn't automatically make it secular. I don't think a great many us hindus would like to live under PMship of Akbaruddin Owaisi, even if he made a london out of hyderabad. For better understanding, Always try to put yourself in the shoes of others.
@Ali Tanoli: Brother, Nowhere in the World will you see people living so far from each other, having such a good understanding of each other. Partition was bad for both in the end, though over the years national egos have taken over rational discourse and it more & more looks like fossilised into people's minds. Still by the time I die, I would like to see India-Pak having relations as US-Canada or US- Britain do and taking all of their International decisions keeping each other's interests in mind. Our people are too close - We can either be sworn enemies or close brothers.
@gp65: Why don't we all just sign ourselves over to America and become one big World United States of America? That would be in our national interest too; they take good care of their own states.
The point being there's a greater principle at stake here. I this context, pursuing "national interest" is the same as a slave obeying it's master because it is in the slave's best interest not to upset the master. Something the whole world is doing at the moment.
Should I vote for the congress or a regional party. The debate has gone amateurish. India is more important than snowden. International dipolomacy is about give and take. No sentiments please, I have never seen amnesty international giving us any positives.anyways, Dalai lama is more like our honoured father, he represents Buddhism which was born here. Snowden is a cia spy.rab rakha
@Naveen, I have many indian friends each from Hoshiarpur the best one I called him pundtha. one from Hyderabad, Gujrath the moody, rudy one, dehli khan sahib allways india is super power and partition was sin according to him but I will say I got one more Naveen sahib....
@Arijit Sharma.:
First of all, Thanks for being honest and truthful & helping substantiate my charges ( infact I wasn't expecting that somebody would even have the gall to say that a community has agreed to be 'submitted' by the other). Next thing, you go and try electing Modi as PM of India, I'll just wait and watch here to see how many of those 86-88% votes you can fetch. India is not your Gujarat or Facebook or twitter or TOI Sharmaji.
As for partition, there's another article by Shivam Vij, where I've discussed the real facts about Partition instead of those peddled by Godse's children. You may wish to look up that page.
Anyway, My weekend is up. Good bye everybody particularly my dear friend gp65, Babloo, Texas Indi, Ali Tanoli. It was nice to have a lively charged up discussion with everybody.
@Naveen: In your list of countries, how come Pakistan is missing? Anyway while my comment was directed at you for reference, it really was meant for the other Indians here. I do not have to prove you anything. Mother India knows best. And let me remind you that you seem to have teed off the Mother India of these ET message boards, gp65.
@Texas Indi: Very well then, You MAY be an Indian. But I AM an Indian free from physical or mental enslavement of any other country. America. China, Russia, EU all are on same footing for me and are to be dealt with equal indifference when it comes to India's business.
@Texas Indi: Pakistan's state policies are very suitable for Americans. What happens in India is problem of the Indians. Far more of us here are dying of hunger, malnutrition, debt suicide, bad sanitation, road accidents and lack of healthcare every month than those Mumbai lunatics or even all terror attacks put together since independence ever killed. The tens of Thousands of homeless kids, men, women and skinny rickshawwallahs ekking out on the streets of Delhi can bring tears to anybody who has the heart to compassionately look into their eyes (and tell them that Sorry guys, We Indians failed you). Nobody compensates or provides justice to such millions of people for the resources diverted away from their life safety for fighting a couple of elusive publicity obsessed megacity terrorists. I am sorry to say this but safeguarding the guests of Hotel Taj and Oberoi Sheratan is by no means the biggest challenge right now for Indians, nor is bringing guys like Haafeez Saeed here in India (frankly I would preffer him stay over there than coming here, as guarding him, giving him fair trial in special courts & other VIP treatment will again shove the poor Indians of many a million eventually killing more number of little kids than those who died in Mumbai attacks). Please understand that America and India are world apart in terms of their socio-economic level and we can't afford to waste our limited resources on 'War on Terror' , 'punishing the axis of evil' and similiar elusive objectives. Pakistan has to somehow be cajoled for the sake of our own deprived lot and rest assured, there will be more such accidents & attacks to derail the process. I am just hoping that India's political elites gives equal priority to the needs of ALL Indians and not just that of big city Middle Class and upper class elite who have monopolised most of the media.
As for Ali Tanol's US base -> I am an Indian, not a Pakistan and he's not claiming to speak on behalf of Indians, so I have no moral authority to question him. Besides, if I am correct, unlike India, in Pakistan, they have quite liberal dual citizenship clauses, so he may very well have legal basis to interfere in affairs of Pakistan.
@Naveen: " ... But due to the fact that to you the strong anti-Modi opinion amongst about 12-14% of Indians who are members of a religious Minority does not really matter. ... "
If the remaining 88-86% vote for Modi - the remainder, minority or not, have to accept it. Remember your history - one of the causes of not accepting a one-person-one-vote regime resulted in partition. And those who stayed back and chose to be Indians, submitted themselves to rule by vote.
@GP65: I used the word 'Communal minded' and NOT 'Communal comment' . You are a die hard supporter of Modi- Evidence: Your comment on this page-> http://tribune.com.pk/story/564436/nightmares-from-narendra/
"Let us get some facts instead of making fact free assertions 1. In Feb 2002, 58 Hindu pilgrims were burnt alive in Godhra by Muslims. In response to this there were riots that lasted for 2 days where 754 Muslims and 250 Hindus were killed. 2. On the 3rd day, Modi who had been a CM for barely 3 months at the tme, ordered military to step in and the riots stopped. 3. There have been other provocations by Muslims in Gujarat since then (Killing worshippers in Akshardham temple, bomb blasts by Muslims in Ahmedabad etc.) but absolutely no riots of any kind in 11 years."
And to me that makes you communal minded- You know why? Not because of the details of riots and investigations that followed (though the 3 day theory is a patent lie as I have pretty good memory) or because Modi used to be a core RSS man and a pretty large number of his lower rung followers align with communal ideologies. But due to the fact that to you the strong anti-Modi opinion amongst about 12-14% of Indians who are members of a religious Minority does not really matter. It doesn't matter to you that Modi's PM candidature holds the potential of dividing India along strict communal lines.
There are other comments of yours terming BJP as a secular party while Congress being a communal party (for me both are communal, the difference is of degree and the right wingers they panders to) which again in my view is problematic, as BJP's parent remains Sangh Parivar which is nothing but a hardcore communal organisation.
As for my reflexive hatred for America, I have none (as you can see from another of my comment on this page) but I also don't have any reflexive romance for America (as it has been stoking sectarian fires, funding terrorists, propping pliant dictators and 'bombing us back to stone age' here in Asia for more than half a century now).
@Naveen: Your rabid anti-Americanism is visible. Just coz I got Texas in my name don't mean I'm American or that I'm from Texas. I may be more Indian than you for all I know.
@Naveen: Nice anecdotal coming-of-age story where the double bounty of sweets from the shopkeeper convinced you to keep faith in humanity and see that Pakistanis are no more different than Indians. . Fortunately I and many others in India never had any ill-feelings towards Pakistan for most of our lives and never wondered if Pakistanis were all bad. We knew all along that there would be good people and bad people just as all over the world. While the percentages may vary depending from country to country (For instance, most Canadians even today keep their front doors unlocked to the bewilderment of most Americans), but not one person I know think that Pakistanis are bad. So I am unsure where you get all these theories from. . What Indians have a problem with is Pakistani state/establishment's policy of aiding and abetting terror in India. Please tell the story of your experiences to the relatives of the 160 off victims of the Mumbai attacks many of whom were Muslims. Most of the victims were people trying to earn their daily bread and thoughts about a neighboring country would have been far from their minds that day. 5 years on, not one of the perpetrators of this attack have been brought to justice and it speaks volumes about the state.
@Raj - USA: Handing him over will blow up Pakistan from within which may lead to a chain of events like solving the Kashmir issue for ever and Baluchistan becoming an independent country. What will happen to Karachi then, with the troubles for Altaf Hussein is facing in London now, is unknown.
Too much delusion can make one look like a fool. Last time I checked by the way, India was facing more problems than Pakistan as far as separatist groups are concerned. We're not sleeping you know. We can very well take care of Khalistan, Kashmir and all other countries occupied by the colonial product known as "India."
@Salim: When did it become a personal attack by an Indian citizen to tell an american (resident or citizen) to avoid talking on behalf of Indians. At state to state level, India and America have never been on the same page in 'real' (as distinct for polemics such as democracy, plural society etc) International affairs except perhaps on militaristic rise of China. Saddam and Gaddafi, whom Americans helped get murdered, used to be some of the best friends of India in West Asia and North Africa. On multilateral Trade regime and Climate talks, we don't see eye to eye with Americans. America has also been forcing Indian Govt to dismantle its cheap generic pharma industry (in the name of IP protection of their own superexpensive branded pharma products) that not only supplies cheap life saving drugs to hundreds of millions of Indians but to the entire Sub-Saharan Africa. At individual level, One can go and check the derogatory comments that ordinary Americans make about Indians ('Curry' and 'Call centre Guy' is the usual reference) on media forums. Infact very recently one of the reputed American publications even permitted an article where Indian men were equated to hyenas as compared to America (completely ignoring the massive socio-economic gulf b/w the two countries and larger population base leading to greater crimes), in context of increase in MEDIA REPORTAGE of rapes in the country.
As for gp65 and texas indi-> whoever they are, they have a definite conflict of interest when they talk about India (as they reside in America). Being an Indian,I have to explicitly mention that time and again. I know that good many (but not all) Indian origin people outside India have a cultural attachment with India but that is just on front of nostalgia and familial ties & nothing more- they'll still get their food, medicines & paychecks even if entire Indian Pharma is rapped up or if American farm subsidies wipes out markets for Indian farm produce (& million of poor Indian farmers that depend on them) at International commodity markets or if America again becomes a prime funder & trainer of Al-Qaeda to counter growing Russian and Chinese influence in Central and West Asia or if India were to tomorrow be reduced into a sectarian rubble like that of Iraq or Syria with US assistance. One must remember that the steel frame of Colonial rule in India were none other than british trained middle class Indians (alongwith big Jagirdars and Zamindars), who always stood hand in gloves with their british masters in the delusion that it was in best interest of incompetent Indians (despite recurrent famines, epidemics and 1% GDP growth rate). The destiny of India is in the hands of those who live in India, see & feel the pain of hundreds of millions who have no human dignity left in their lives and to whom nobody asks which religion they belong to or what terrorists are they afraid of. All others are visitors for whom India and its residents are nothing but a showcase.
Btw I used the word 'communal minded' & not 'communal comment' and I stand by it, as you are not the only one here who has followed the past comments of others.
ET modes can make their judgements for themselves, they do not need instructions from you who to ban and who not. There are people on this forum who write despicable comments about entire communities and suggest horrific fascist ideas (such as kicking out a particular community from my India), yet are pandered. By that standards, my comments are harmless and infact constructive as they call upon Indians to think for themselves objectively (not hate outsiders but be cautious & analyse objectively). No country in the world has ever developed by depending on doles of aid or directions handed out by foreigner. Reform have to come from within.
@Naveen: "@To all americans posting on this page as Indians:"
What about Pakistanis who live in US? They are allowed to post is it? You do realize that your friend @Ali Tanoli lives in US right?
@Water Bottle: Two more commonalities between Dalai Lama and Snowden 1) Both worked for CIA 2) USA too has a border dispute with India just like China
@Rex Minor: Russia gave conditional asylum to Snowden - the condition being that he should not publish any more information detrimental to US. HE refused. India gave conditional asylum to Dalai Lama condition being that he should not indulge in any anti-China political activity and he agreed. Snowden has a sense of entitlement about asylum.
@Naveen : No one thinks that India is the 51st state of US. But you seem to think that Indian Punjab is part of PAkistan just because someone gave you a free packet of sweets. Also just as India is not beholden to US, US is not beholden to India either - where do you get of telling American nationals what they can post and what they cannot?
@Tas: Snowden did not work for Walmart as a chekout clerk you know. He worked for CIA. He did not that surveillance activities are carried on by CIA?
@To all americans posting on this page as Indians:
Don't come here and tell us that Snooping was OK and America was doing a big favor to incompetentent Indians. American Government owes nothing to Indian citizens; democracy, freedom and other claptrap is for you Americans not for us. India herself was the 5th most snooped on country and even our embassies was bugged (I don't know how many terrorists they found there).
When you post, Please keep in mind that India is not the 51st state of US of A, or some sort of proto colony of US. It is just that America is a superpower and the stakes were too high for India to take a public stand. Unlike Latin Americans; Asians in general and South Asians in particular are a divided lot and have been acting as sworn enemies to each other. This limits India's options.
@Water Bottle: Despite being a loudmouth otherwise, I agree with you on this matter. I have worked at GE, Bangalore and I perfectly remember that for a good many years, they had issues even with Indian Flag being hoisted in place of American Flag at the top of the building despite the fact that the entire place was built, run and managed by Indians.
@Ali Tanoli: Like everybody else, My views are shaped by my personal experience.
When I was in college, I went for an internship to Italy. There in a small town of Crema where I stayed, I met a Pakistani shopkeeper who used to give a pack of sweets to everyone of 'desi' origin who came to his shop for the first time (as there weren't many in that small town). Unlike my friends who were from West Bengal and Chhattisgarh who got only one, He gave me 2 extra large pack of sweets - One for being 'desi' and another for being a fellow 'Punjabi'. Whenever I used to go to his shop, he used to talk to me as a loving father trying to guide his son to the right path. This encounter and my another meet with a guy from Bahawalpur who was more than overjoyed (even invited me to come over to his 'place' on a weekend) as he came to know that my grandparents had migrated out Bahawalour, had profound impact in changing my perspective about humans in general and Pakistanis in particular.
how dare the author compare a CIA agent on the run from his ex-master to His Holiness, The Dalai Lama?
@Haha:
good point! exposed this author completely!!
@Please Don't Advise:
excellent - couldn't have put it better!!
I have seen a pattern where this gentleman indulges in personal attacks and you publish them too. Please do allow an opportunity to question such attacks also.
@Naveen: I am one of the silent observers of this forum. I have been reading @gp65's comments for a while now and not observed any communalism. I was therefore surprised to see your accusation and read her post multiple times. I did not see any references to religion?
A couple of questions for you:
How do you know that @Texas Indi is a US citizen? Maybe he has a work visa or green card and is an Indian citizen? In what way is he less Indian than you and why do you arrogate the right to yourself to control the speech of other Indians? Note that I do not agree with his opinion but he still has a right to express his viewpoint.
Secondly are you familiar with Maoists with whom our government is waging a battle? Are the Muslim? Why then do you conflate terror with Islam? If you don't, what was the basis of calling @gp65's post communal?
@Haha: " ... Where were you when Tasleema Nasrin was attcked and forced to leave Bengal ? Where were you when Salman Rushdie was not even allowed in conference ? ... "
You should know by now that different standards apply to/for Muslims - it seems that what is good for the goose is not good for the gander.
ET Mods: Please let me reply to someone who wrote to me.
@ABKhan: "Lol……….. India was offering its bases to launch offense against Afghanistan when it wasnt even asked from the USA, no one considered India important for that war and it was the sole reason, Indian troops were not part of Coalition. Please start making some sense"
US has sought bases in India against China. I am not the one that is ignorant. Please review the other facts that I documented also which show that India pursues an indepenent foreign policy.
@Yuri Kondratyuk: you nailed it.
@Ajatashatru: "@Texas Indi: And you might want to shed some light about how spying on the Indian embassy in Washington can solve the problem of Islamic fundamentalists?" Can you certify that there are no Islamic fundamentalists in India? Be sure that they are not laying low.
@Please Don't Advis
Plase correct your comments; China has provided the whistle Blower Edward Snowden the residence, protection and the safe passage to Russia; Russia has offered him the asylum on Russian terms but were turned down by the young American who plans to provide additional shocks to the civilisedd world about the country of Law which is redefining the standards in the anternational relations. For India to grant asylum to the American outlaw without a Passport is a bit of a stretch and is delusionary. Hundreds if not many more thousands Indians have been granted asylum in Europe, mostly sikhs whose drive for independence were bloodily crushed.by Indira.
Rex Minor
@Tas: I am sorry to say that your remark on Snowdown is very stupid. My friend, Edward Snowden used to work for the CIA - the central word here, pun intended, is intelligence. Where and how do you think this intelligence is gathered - by subscribing to market research reports? While I have no difficulty in believing that you are as naive as those you describe, I find it impossible to see any self-respecting CIA employee through the same lens, and then, adding insult to injury, to put him in the same bracket as the Dalai Lama.
@Texas Indi: And you might want to shed some light about how spying on the Indian embassy in Washington can solve the problem of Islamic fundamentalists?
@Seema Mustafa Where were you when Tasleema Nasrin was attcked and forced to leave Bengal ? Where were you when Salman Rushdie was not even allowed in conference ? Now you ask about Mr.Snow ...please stop your moral lesson and we understand your hidden agenda . Is morality not applied in those above 2 cases? They were just writers and exposed bitter truth of a society . Same thing is applicable for Mr.Hussain also. First write article in these cases and denounce this in your strongest words.
@Seema Mustafa
I understand your anger against USA and it's historical with you . Fact is India is a small player in this group . Bigger countries like Russia and China didn't give him asylum . It's politics and we are going to follow Guru Chanakya's principle in stead our father of nation M.Gandhi . In politics , nothing is permanent and we used to curse when USA was with Pakistan . But our effort and hard work showed result and forced USA to slide her interest to India . Sincerely request you not to give such advice which will make India a banana republic like Islamic countries ."t is really difficult to understand why South Asia continues to reel under a colonial hangover. For there can be no other explanation for the manner in which South Asian governments succumb to the new colonialists, the US and its allies, on each and every issue"--- You are wrong as usual. Few are some examples which will prove you wrong. 1>India countinues to buy oil from Iran though pressure from USA and its allies there . We are one of the major exporters to Iran now and 2nd most oil importer country . Because we know Oil is important for us as well as we need an export market . We haven't caved into USA's pressure in this matter . 2>India has openly supported Iran's nuclear policy provided its peaceful use . 3>India never joined any alliance with USA and remained neutral since history. Madam , We are educated and having a brain.Please try to fool some others. It's a give and take policy . If USA gives us nuclear technology and 26/11 attack plotter , we will reciprocate her with some good gesture . Regading Dalai , He is our honorable guest and the highest leader of a religion which is indigenous to India and we do take pride in it . India suffered from Tamil terrorists and it's current leadership doesn't support it.
She simply saying SERIAL killer (drones) is equal to pick pocketer (raised some pretty issues against ind) why bcoz both are criminals..........
@Naveen, Before Shebba khair, tell me why u r so broad minded ???? god bless u.
@Ali Tanoli: No problem boss, I knew that you just said it in the heat of the moment, as even I found some of the above comments quite disturbing. Anyway Shabba khair.
She simply saying SERIAL killer (drones) is equal to pick pocketer (raised some pretty issues against ind) why bcoz both are criminals.......... LMAO
@doom: You are misreading the reactions of "what you call stooges"? Mr Snowden travelled to China and later to Russia on his own will and therefore the situation is slightly complicated. He is a very valuable commodity for the 21st century Cyber war! The USA has theatened to take serious action against the contry which grants him the assylum. I guess not what Edward Snowden has revealed but he is yet to reveal?. India is in no position to risk its reliance on western industry.
Rex Minor
miss mustafa,
I like your article, you have covered severa topics, stated opinion on so many episodes and expressed your catagoric disappointments with the attitudes of the Indian and Pakistan Governments. You are ver emotional too. Let me address some of the points:
. Espionage or intelligence gathering activity operates in both directions. Each country if one will spies on the other country irrespective of their mutual relations with one another. The details are kept secret.
Edward Snowden, the master Computer Hacker in the service of the NSA, has revealed both the details and the extent of the Surveillance programs of the USA and the UK. This is very shabby act against ones own country but he apparently justifes it on the basis of his conscious. I personaly would not have undertaken such a step but instead resign from the service as many others who do not join the military because of their conious as well.
Be it as it is, the USA has indeed broken European laws, for example in Germany where personal data is protected by law for all citizens unless, the court permits against the individuals suspected criminals. Also, the installation of devices in allied countries Embassies is shabby and disgraceful The European rsponse is in the making! The Nation which is second to no othr country in the worl in innovation is bding challnged to protect its industry. The proposal was disussed in the European Union to freeze talks on free trade with the USA, but on German Chancellor#s request the talks with the USA on tade and Cyber programs will commene simultanoeusly.
.It is not correct to assume that you have thrown British out? No madam, your people did not revolt agianst the British Raj for two centuries.. This decision was undertaken by the Soviet Union and the USA and was the condition for their participation in ww2 against the Third Reich, that the Brits and the French as well as Portugese and the Belgians will grant independence to their colonies. . I Rex Mnor
@Ali tanoli: " ... This is the mentality was there when few English came to india and hindus population joins them then we saw partition. ... "
Don't you think we Hindus did the smart thing ? Use one invader to finish another invader and then gain independence ? Muslims wanted the Mughals back, we did not.
Anyway, we are better off with partition.
Like Russia, China and whole bunch of countries India has done the right thing in refusing asylum to Snowden. In my view Snowden is not a human right activist as painted by some, but joins the list of Alrich Ames, Klas Fuchs etc.
@get forward:
"usa is a reliable anti-terrorist state"
Yes so right.......... Supporting Al-Qaeda in Syria proves it!!!!!!!!
@np: "When India’s national interests so dictate India does decide differently from US e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan where it did not send an army as part of the ‘coaliation of the willing’ but did help reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan."
Lol........... India was offering its bases to launch offense against Afghanistan when it wasnt even asked from the USA, no one considered India important for that war and it was the sole reason, Indian troops were not part of Coalition. Please start making some sense
South Asians have genetic disease called hero worship closely followed by the worship of white skin. Couple these defects with the servant attitude, what do you expect.
No cure is available as of yet.
@BlackJack: I am sorry to say that your remark on Snowdown is very stupid. He is not just someone who has cheated his employer but someone who believed for a long time like most naïve Americans that he was on the right side of the fence and serving his country until his conscious started telling him that there was something wrong,exactly the same way as sometimes,someone in Nevada or elsewhere starts realizing that when he kills a 'bad guy' from a drone, he is also killing some kids who are innocent. So, there are some people in this world for whom such acts are not really bearable.
@Water Bottle: Many of these Indians who oppose to Snowden’s asylum are the ones slaving in a US based company in Noida or Bangalore or Hyderabad and don’t want a “rejected” seal in their passports when they apply for a US visa next time to make some cheap quick buck. You can earn some cheap buck too, Who stopping you?
@Gp65: @Texas Indi: As I have said elsewhere, communal minded americans should not interfere in India's internal affairs. Both of you seem blissfully unaware to the fact that how big a role Americans played in brutalising Kashmir in 1990s (by supplying free arms and free training to Afghan Mujahideens). Even Right now they are funding the same Jihadis in Syria.
@Ali tanoli: You know that is a factually incorrect statement. I am sure you are aware about 1857 mutiny, Sir Syed's views about 'Jahil' muslim masses and noble British and the Jail track record of Muslim league leadership. I am making a difference b/w communal leadership and Muslim masses (who infact were quite active in revolutionary activities, rebellions and even formed the majority in Azad Hind Fauz).
Respected Madam. I will just what Stephen Cohen has said about USA relations with India and Pakistan. According to him, " Pakistan is an ally, but not a friend. India is a friend, but not an ally." I am sure a journalist of your caliber knows who Mr Cohen is. People like him do not talk through their hats.
I was going to say that the Snowden matter has shown that pretty much all of the world except Latin America is America's stooge, and that it has nothing to do with a colonial hangover.
But reading the comments it's obvious that their really is a colonial hangover or something going on in India. At least the majority of people in Europe recognize that Snowden revealed important truths and has done a service to them. They would like to see Snowden given asylum. It is just their governments that are subservient to America not the people.
But judging by the sample of commenters here, India's people are happy to be America's lapdog if it earns them a tummy rub. Even in Pakistan that is not so - it is only the government that is America's lapdog, not the people.
Snowden is American shakil afridi......
@Texas indiano from east india, This is the mentality was there when few English came to india and hindus population joins them then we saw partition.
India and Pakistan should live as civilised peaceful neighbors out of shared common sense and not out of some shared Anti-Americanism. You can't build neighborly solidarity based on hate for the 'other'. America is doing what suits it, If we can't do the same that's our problem, blaming it on American/Chinese/Russians is a futile & narrow minded perspective of the things.
How one wishes India had leaders like Nehru and Gandhi! But this is not the first time India has bent over backwards to appease a superpower. It supported the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and participated in the Moscow Olympics, which were boycotted by most countries of the world. As for Indian independence, it will remain a myth, as long as India depends on the U.S. for nuclear plants and permanent membership of the U.N. Security Council. And it won't be long before India begins talking of a Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, forcing Karzai to flee to the U.S. to avoid being hanged.
@water bottle: dont pass judgements .....usa is a reliable anti-terrorist state and they have been successful in controlling terrorism to a great extent(atleast in their own states)....whereas india has been unsuccessful in putting an end to terrorist attacks....be it 26/11,recent hyderabad blasts and many more....there are fanatics in india who are ready to kill in the name of god(Indian Mujahhidin,Kashmiri separatists etc)...its better if usa is keeping an eye of us..bcoz we hav been sleeping over the years against terrorism...
Writer chose an important topic to write about. US policies for both India and Pakistan have been like using them for its national interest. In order to maintain integrity and prosperity for region, Islamabad and New Delhi needs to sit and settle down problems. Otherwise, they will continued to be exploited by dominated countries.
''Sovereignty is not just about territorial boundaries. It is about peoples and mindsets.'' dammmm right
Even more difficult is to understand why some South Asians stumble around carrying their Caliphate hangovers.
For the first time I agree with your writing.
India should grant Snowden asylum. That is the right thing to do.
Many of these Indians who oppose to Snowden's asylum are the ones slaving in a US based company in Noida or Bangalore or Hyderabad and don't want a "rejected" seal in their passports when they apply for a US visa next time to make some cheap quick buck.
These same Indians have never ever dared to look into their subconscious and see that they have become exactly the opposite of what greatness India stood for once upon a time.
Indians should stop idolizing people and lean towards logic to find out answers.
It's perfectly logical to compare Dalai Lama and Snowden. Here are the reasons :
1) Both Dalai Lama and Snowden are fugitives in their respective countries. And will face extreme punishments if they returned.
2) Both Dalai Lama and Snowden exposed and oppose the oppressive nature of two of the biggest power in the world.
3) Dalai Lama fought for the liberation of a nation. Snowden fought for the basic human rights of all the people of the world.
4) Both of them have not committed any act of violence. Both their actions are pursued as good by a large population in the world and criminal as a small population in their respective countries of origin.
The other reasons like Dalai Lama was a spiritual leader/belongs to Buddhism which is born in India are perfectly valid.
However, not qualifying to be a Spiritual leader or being born in Dharmic religion is not a reason to deny someone asylum.
Lady i have read a lot of your articles , today i was glad to find that there is someone you hate more then India that is the USA . Good to know we came second last.
"It is really difficult to understand why South Asia continues to reel under a colonial hangover."
Why is it difficult to understand?
Indians (and Pakistanis, I assume) have a sense of racial inferiority towards English speaking white skinned people. This is entrenched deep within our hearts.
I don't think it will go away in a 1000 years.
Mr. Kurshid And congress govt. are crooks.
But, in the case of India-US relation I fully support Govt. India has nothing to gain by petty bickering on 'snooping' or snowden. Espionage and intelligence is gathered by dubious means. Late Mr. B raman would say that intelligence is about gathering information and then analysing it threadbare.
So, first rule of the game is get information? How does one do that? Request terrorist organisations to provide monthly report on their plans? Ask govts around the world what they intend to do, that may undermine your interests??
Snowden is a rogue, irrespective of how well intentioned he may be, because his nation is a democratic nation, with people entrusting a govt. tot take care of their interest. If Obama was an unelected dictator then what snowden did would've been brave. Instead what he has done is criminal.
" ... India was on Snowden’s wish list of countries to which he had applied for asylum, but New Delhi denied this request within hours. ... "
See, India Snowden a favour by responding quickly. He has one less variable in his asylum equation. Besides the US has an extradition treaty with India.
America is the sole super power of the planet. What choice India has other than to succumb to American diktat.
The author talks about Dalai Lama but is silent on Taslema Nasrin. Snowden is neither a spiritual leader nor a leader of any kind. All he did was stee data from his employers who trusted him.
US has provided important support to India on the Mumbai attacks and snooping on Skype telephone conversations between the terrorists and their handlers in Pakistan has provided vital proof, which probably the author resents. Sooner or later, Hafiz Saeed will be brought to justice and Pakistan will be forced to hand him over for trial. Handing him over will blow up Pakistan from within which may lead to a chain of events like solving the Kashmir issue for ever and Baluchistan becoming an independent country. What will happen to Karachi then, with the troubles for Altaf Hussein is facing in London now, is unknown.
On the talibans, India does not like them to share power, even to a small extent, in Afghanistan. But India cannot do anything and only US has the power. The reality is that is it as much easy, if not easier to install taliban rule in Pakistan than Afghanistan. Most political and religious parties and importantly many of its serving and retired generals want taliban style rule in Pakistan. Why should everyone think that US will accept taliban sharing power in Afghanistan only and leave Pakistan alone? Imagine what will happen to Pakistan if US takes it further and goes on to install taliban rule in Pakistan. Pakistanis should realize that they cannot wish for taliban rule in Afghanistan alone. They will have it too.
India knows where lies its interest? author has every right to express her opinion which carries no weight.
No comparioson between asylum to Dalai Lama and Snowden. Dalai Lama has agreed to not continue any political activities from Indian soil. Snowden rejected the conditional asylum that Russia was giving with the sole condition being that he should stop any statements that could hurt US.
When none of the European countries nor Russia are willing to give him unconditional asylum, why should India needlessly poke US in the eye?
Staying clear of the Snowden affair was good for India -- but Salman Kurshid shot off his mouth as is his wont and ruined everything. India should have extracted concessions and bargained it's pound of flesh - like cutting the additional fees imposed on Indian IT workers, or some other way - say chips in the climate negotiation?
Author is right, if India and Pakistan can unite, their combined nuclear power will ensure that America will be nowhere, in fact it will be forced to pay tribute.
Unfortunately, this is not possible as long as Hindu fundamentalists like Modi, RSS and Col. Prohit dominate India, killing and raping Muslims at will. Pakistan has more and better nuclear bombs and missiles and should use these to help the Muslims of India to overthrow Hindu domination, starting with Kashmir.
Just mind boggling to compare Edward Snowden and Dalai Lama...I stopped wasting my time on reading the article any further...
Lady,
Indian foreign policy decisions will be taken in India's best interests period.
When India's national interests so dictate India does decide differently from US e.g. Iraq and Afghanistan where it did not send an army as part of the 'coaliation of the willing' but did help reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan. More recently it did not vote with US on Syria and Libya.
On nuclear liability issues, India has stuck to the stand that is in India's national interest despite pressure from US to change it.
India also has not agreed to provide bases to US.
However, when appropriate there is no harm in agreeing with US either. Just because you are blinded by anti-Americanism, does not mean India should be as well.
Khurshid has faced his share of flak for his silly remark, although the truth is that spying is one aspect of statecraft that attests to the sour grapes phenomenon like no other. Now on the role of the Taliban in Afghanistan, if the Afghans are fine with talking to the Taliban, who are we to tell them not to? We may not believe that this will amount to anything as long as the Taliban can run back into Pakistan whenever the want, but we are not major players in deciding the future of Afghanistan. Third, Snowden - I don't understand why people are comparing him to the Dalai Lama, although Ms. Mustafa may like to award him a Nobel Prize just for thumbing his nose at the US. We have cultural ties with Tibetan Buddhists and with the Tamils from Sri Lanka, there is no comparison with a fugitive who has cheated his employer and leaked state secrets.
You madam have chosen a pretty ' hot ' topic to write on. I recollect one of our leaders, I forget which, said ' it's easy for the opposition ( the media in this case ) to talk tough. Once they come and sit on this seat and read the files, their tone will change '. So its difficult to be judgemental, but I still think the author has made a valid point.
@Author: Believe it or not, the US and India are on the same side on this one. Both have a problem with Islamic fundamentalists and India understands threat the snooping is done on the metadata and not on the actual data. India understands the US better on this one. . No, we are not scared on this one! Unless Snowden has something better to show, Indians don't know anything they already don't know. Until then he will be stuck in Russia's Sheremetyevo airport.
The biggest reason of getting Raam on every thing is partition of india and second chaploos mentality of sub continent in general. by the way snowden is not angel either he is former CIA agent u know what I mean... and now Pakistan getting closer to china so Kerry is coming back ?????