Hafez Saeed says as a citizen of Pakistan he enjoys the same rights as ISI chief, officers and that the government should also provide him with legal assistance. PHOTO: REUTERS/FILE
CJ Bandial was holding proceedings on petition filed by Hafiz Saeed wherein he sought directions from the federal government to provide him with legal assistance in order to defend a Pakistani citizen before an American court, just like the state is providing assistance to former Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) director general and other officers.
However, an Amicus Curiae appointed by the court suggested on Friday that the federal government should not involve itself in this particular case. He argued that providing legal assistance to Saeed in the law suit filed by relatives of US nationals killed in the Mumbai 2008 attacks, would harm Pakistan.
Amicus Curiae Ahmar Bilal Sufi said that the United Nations Organisation (UNO) had unanimously approved a resolution against terrorism and being a member Pakistan was bound to obey the resolution.
Sufi pointed out that India had tried to link Pakistan with al Qaeda and filed a suit in the US court where it claimed Pakistan’s land was involved in spreading terrorism. The Amicus Curiae argued that if the Pakistan state were to provide Saeed with legal assistance, the Indian case would be strengthened.
At this, the court observed that the government should take up the matter at international forums and prove that Pakistan was not involved in terrorism. “Government should highlight the view that Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and fighting against it.”
US nationals Rabbi Gabriel Noah Holtzberg and his wife Rivka were killed by militants in Mumbai attacks. Their son Moshe survived in the attack and he along with other persons filed nine claims against banned outfit Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT), Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, Azam Cheema and Sajid Majid as well as the ISI, its former chief Nadeem Taj and Lt-Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha. Additionally two other officers, Major Iqbal and Major Sameer Ali, were also nominated and alleged to be a part of the ISI. They were accused of providing material support for the Mumbai 2008 attacks.
For each of the claims, the plaintiffs have sought damages of 75,000 US dollars.
Hafiz Saeed in his petition before the LHC submitted that he was the head of Jamatud Dawa, a charitable organisation, and had no link with Lashkar-e-Tayyaba.
The petitioner stated that on Dec 16, 2010 he was served with summons from United States District Court in connection with a case relating to Mumbai attacks. He said on Dec 31, 2010 the federal government announced to defend legal suit against other parties including ISI head Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha.
Saeed had pleaded that he is a citizen of Pakistan and enjoys the same rights as any other individual. He demanded that the government should also defend him in the same manner as it was defending the ISI chiefs and other officials.
The court adjourned the hearing till March 7.
COMMENTS (49)
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@Clear Black Bag: India as usual couldn’t provide any authentic and solid evidences but gave only informations against Hafiz Saeed Ahmed and still crying over his punishment
Pakistan government knows every thing. This information is from what happened in a Pakistani court.
Deputy Director Faqir Muhammad and Inspector Khalid Awan of the Federal Investigation Agency provided details of items found in the LeT camps when they were cross-examined by defence lawyers during proceedings conducted by anti-terrorism court Judge Chaudhry Habib-ur-Rehman at Adiala Jail in Rawalpindi.
After the in-camera hearing, FIA Special Prosecutor Chaudhry Zulfiqar Ali told PTI that Muhammad and Awan were "very important witnesses".
During the cross-examination, the witnesses said they raided two LeT training camps at Yousaf Goth in Landhi area of Karachi and Mirpur Sakro area in Thatta district.
The witnesses said they had found a huge quantity of incriminating articles, including maps of Indian cities, details about the distribution of weapons to the terrorists who attacked Mumbai, photographs of the two boats used by the attackers and jihadi literature, Ali said.
He demanded that the government should also defend him in the same manner as it was defending the ISI chiefs and other officials.
He thinks because it was a government directed project, Pakistan government should provide him protection.
Pakistan government protects him by providing check points near his home and army/police presence in the park near his house.
I don't think Pakistan government will let him testify for the fear of him spilling the beans. Some thing NATURAL may happen to him.
@ Indian Catholic : US seeking info that can convict Hafiz Saeed in court of law. Zee News http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/us-seeking-info-that-can-convict-hafiz-saeed-in-court-of-law_827954.html i think it will help you out of misunderstanding you are in, for any mental or other disorder, consult some dr
if sincerity is not there in combating terrorism Pakistan and India can search thousands excuses to save terrorists , Pakistan must control Hafiz Saeed form inflaming hatred if they are serious in proceeding of peace talks ,,, open invitation 4 war against any neighboring country is not good for any one ,, today Pakistan is facing high level of internal insecurity may be India is playing its cards ,, nothing is out of possibility, so trust and sincerity needs if both want peace for people otherwise 10000 excuses to fight, open ....... Pakistan still kept the area liberated by themselves called Gilgit Baltistan in the north, India supposed to have reserved seats in Lok sabah for the Gilgit Baltistan, unfortunately Pakistan is calling it a unsettles area , do they need a freedom fought by Pakistan army or its back? otherwise people of GB got freedom in 1948............................can anyone respond???
@Vicram Singh: He sends others to die for him;He is safe in his fortress.Tragically it is poor,uneducated and the unemployed who go and die for him under the mistaken belief that they are going to heaven but he is enjoying his heaven here and now.
India as usual couldn't provide any authentic and solid evidences but gave only informations against Hafiz Saeed Ahmed and still crying over his punishment.Indians first provide authentic evidences then demand his punishment.....
@Antebellum: Agreed but do not misguide by saying that India stopped the Pakistan Commission from ezamination. Please correct yourself.
“Government should highlight the view that Pakistan itself is a victim of terrorism and fighting against it.”
I hear this logic everywhere in Pakistan. Just because your house is on fire today doesn't mean you didn't try to burn down other houses in the neighbourhood before!!
Hafiz Saeed is too powerful. He will die in his ripe old age, no man in Pakistan can touch him.
India can use him to paint Pakistan as a sponsor of Terror, as it has so successfully done already.
Why leaders from US don't admit and sanction Pakistan is because of one simple reason - supply routes for Afghanistan run through Pakistan. But, that is going to disappear in 2014.
India should utilise Hafiz Saeed for its purposes, more than Pakistan ever has. If India plants the seed now, the tree will ripen in 2014, after NATO withdraws.
What has Hafiz Saeed got Pakistan? NOTHING! In fact, he is singularly responsible for the death of many Pakistanis who have crossed the LoC to be killed by Indian soldiers and some of whom have joined other Terror organizations to wreak havoc within Pakistan.
What has Hafiz Saeed giving India? The opportunity to paint Pakistan in bad light and get the world on its side. India suffered from bad image in the 1990s due to the anti-insurgency efforts in Kashmir. That is being fixed now, all thanks to people like Hafiz Saeed and Osama, who end up in Pakistan.
A Terrorist with no face is useless. Give him a face, an identity, you have a propaganda tool at your hand. Hafiz Saeed is a great asset to India now.
@QC
Clearly you are not familiar with the concept of seperation of powers. Just because the government (the execuitive branch) agrees to something doesn't mean the courts (the judicial branch) have to acceptn it. The courts have to follow rules and procedures, which by the way are universal.
@Antebellum: "The trial in Indian Court was a sham." Please do not confuse Pakistani court with Indian Court. In Indian Courts Ministers, Army Officers, Judges, rioters and criminals have all been sent to jail. In Pakistan An innocent PM was sent to the gallows, Democracy was derailed countless times, no Military officer ever convicted of any crime, and rose petals showered on murderers by upholders of the Law. The mindset that has created characters like Hafiz Saeed, protected him and placed him on a pedestal --- is what ails Pakistan. A country that mortgages its future and those of its children to protect the worst scum of its society, will rightly be viewed the way Pakistan is currently. No amount of PR or diplomacy can rectify this, only corrective action will. The World is too busy learning the new skills required to compete in a rapidly changing world, no one has any time to conspire against Pakistan or anyone else either. Stop injecting and poisoning your children and youth with hate, bigotry and a fake religious superiority --- the future of Pakistan will start looking brighter.
@John B: I guess O J Simpson (USA footballer) was also convicted under civil suit after failure of high profile murder case. I guess that's the way to go if my example isn't wrong.
The foot dragging on this case will continue, Hafeez Sayeed, LeJ, TTP are sufficient to sink Pakistan and from the comments above I can see pakistanis are enjoying it because India is denied justice in Mumbai case. Karella. Extremely well said. May your tribe increase./
@Antebellum: Again you are wrong. Before coming to India, there were rules set and agreed by both the Governments of who and whom they can see/meet in India. At that time, Pakistan had not asked permission to question. Recently Pakistan and India has agreed that a new commssion will go to India and can question people that Pakistan wants to talk to. So please stop spreading false propaganda.
Supreme Court of Pakistan is a joke !!
@Faisal: It serves India well that Hafeez Saeed remians alive and kicking so that Pakistan remains on tenderhooks, restrained/constrained by persistent international pressure. I would like nothing short of Hafiz Saeed becoming a dark force that slowly drowns Pakistan since it chooses to continue on the dark paths- parceling out your territory and assets; recent cases being Gwadar to China and G-B to China and earlier Aksai chin to China in the garb of control/construction. You had already sold yourself to US in taking on India first and then Soviet Russia. Your ex-SBP Governor has confirmed in his 2 most recent essays what everybody knew that Pakistan is on a steep downward economic slide from where recovery is impossible. In such situations discontent in society, military and terrorism is bound to increase. Your Army will try to deflect attention by provoking India. Hafeez Saeed seeks to draw negative attention from the world and helps to keep it focused ! State of Pakistan defending Hafeez Saeed would be a step further in Pakistan's complete isolation and give India a reason to not extend the hand of friendship to Pakistan.
@Faisal:
Its sad and sick that one would admit and support Pakistan to protect extremist militants who commit terrorism, be it against India or elsewhere regionally, as strategic interests. This hateful violent ideological strategy is just immoral, evil and criminally insane.
If Hafiz Saeed goes, many in the military brass would revolt and this is not in any ones interest. Is it? Hafiz is the new caesar and sooner than later is heading to lead Pakistan.
Rex Minor
@gp65 & @QC
The evidance was not admissable in the court because the Pakistani investigative delegation to India was not allowed (by the Indian govt.) to cross-question the witnesses and the accused. Irrespective of whether Ajmal Kassab was guilty or not, the trial you held (because of that) was pretty sham!
I hope Pakistani government develops a spine and bravely defends one of the greatest citizens, beneficiaries of masses and social workers the nation has ever produced. Pakistan's khudi is being attacked by her enemies. Pakistani nation must not sit quietly, just as Sir Professor Hafiz Saeed would not whenever Muslims are under assault anywhere in the world.
@Karella: Thank you.
@Ali Choudhry: US does not want any evidence against Hafiz Saeed. They want a way to get him in their custody. This has been clarified by the US Dept. of State. The reward is for "information that would lead to his arrest by the US". . By the way, good luck with the well-worn comments that have been repudiated numerous times here on ET.
@Raj - USA: It is a civil suit. Requires only 7/12 jury verdict. No unanimous decision is needed. The conviction of David Coleman and his testimony will add further credence to this case.
Until PAK hands over him and others of Mumbai attack, PAK is not going anywhere and these individuals will drag PAK along with them if, PAK protects these idiots.
It is also true, without a small scale show down with forces, like "Red Mosque" incidence, he cannot not be captured.
@Faisal:
"Hafiz Saeed is Pakistan’s best antidote for India,"
All he does is talk.
No evidence is needed he should present himself to US courts to clear his and his country's name it will be a great service to Islam and it's image from legal point of view US is entitled to prosecute accused persons in its courts Pakistani courts have no jurisdiction over US courts and Americais powerful , it can take him any way but LIHAZ KARYA HAI...
if he is accused than must be tried yes ISI should not defend him let proceed cases against him and many others who disturbed peace
As a Pakistani, I am appalled by what happened in Mumbai. Whatever I have seen from circumstantial evidence as reported, JuD (formerly known as Let) seems to be involved. From Ajmal Kasab to David Headly, there are too many fingers that point in this direction. Hafiz Saeed, along with a list of other culprits, are the reason my country is in the state it is in. Too many lies have been spread in our country for too long for people to digest the truth immediately. For those of us who believe in the future of this country, have patience. Help in getting us in the right direction. Our children would benefit from decisions we make today.
US is offering millions of dollars for "any" evidence against this man, India has nothing that can be called evidence either, Pakistani courts have tired him many times and acquitted him with a clean chit.is there any thing called justice in this world? i mean what else is called unjust? you have nothing against him and yet want to prosecute a person over and over again.This Sofi guy is too sofi to know this all. UN resolution? when one is acquitted what resolution can implicate him in terrorism or any other crime? and why should he be striped of his fundamental rights? stop eating weed and concentrate on your job Mr Sofi and please work for Pakistan only
US is offering millions of Dollars to get "any" evidence against this man, India too has got nothing that can be called evidence against him,Pakistan courts have tried and acquitted him many times. Is there any thing we called justice in this world? i mean this Sofi man is too sofi and dont know these facts? UN resolutions? what about resolutions on Kashmir? and how any resolution can strip any one from his fundamental rights? when there is nothing proved against a person, how defending him is against any "resolution"? stop eating weed and concentrate on job Mr Sofi
If this man gets arrested...Pakistan will boil...
@Antebellum: Yes he was freed by the Courts. The charges laid against him was for terrorising PAKISTAN and NOT 26/11.
@Ahmed:
If you link every terrorist activity with Islam, you will never take an action.. Simple
@abdullah Khan . Really ET? Someone can use unparliamentary language when I can't even get a word in edge-wise? . Forget about the dossiers, we Indians have seen to testimony of Ajmal Kasab. If Pakistan were true, it would convict the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks including Hafeez Saeed named by Kasab , his trainers and the Major General who checked his progress. . I am not going to dirty myself in the mud by naming the Supreme Court, the Army or the Government.
@Antebellum: According to your court even Mallik Ishaq is innocent. In fact your courts have acquitted every single terrorist sent even by Pakistani agencies. Secondly it became evident in December 2012 that all the evidence provided by India to Pakistan has not even been presented to the courts, so the trial held without presenting relevant proofs is hardly an endorsement of a man's innocence.
" US nationals Rabbi Gabriel Noah Holtzberg and his wife Rivka were killed by militants in Mumbai attacks." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The militants came from Pluto:)
I am curious about the small sum of $75,000 damages sought by the plaintiffs. My guess is that it is a legal strategy. Guilt must be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt." In a some trials, but in some trials guilt only needs to be proven according to the "preponderance of the evidence", rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt". May be they are opting to prove under the less stringent standards that also lesser punishment in the beginning. When the trial is in progress more evidence may be forthcoming or collected and they can go for the higher standards of establishing guilt that would also carry a more severe punishment.
there is no proof against Hafiz Saeed otherwise Zardari Govt would have handed him over already to India.
A very shameless argument by Amicus Curie, perhapps he is not aware that Saeed was cleared having no involvement in 2611 by Supreme Court of Pakistan. US has admitted lack of evidence and Indian dossiers are bunch of crap that contain no evidence. India hasn't allowed Pakistan's comission to probe witnesses and UN linked JUD with Al-qaseda and Taliban, not with this 2611 case. Moreover Taliban have already been removed from Proscribed list and they are allowed office in Qatar for negotiations. India, already made its case strong by ostrich government who would have aggressively dealt with the case after Saeed qas aquitted. There is no established link with Al qaeda that has attacked Pakistani state while JUD or LET never did that. There is no proof to link both organizations as well. By no defending Saeed, government will further establish the fact that Pakistan is sheilding terrorists, otherwise would have defended as her own citizen.
@Indian: I think you mean ZINDA BHAAG
HAFIZ SAEED JINDABAAD
Its very Tight spot :) for Pak Govt, they would love to hate this guy but Si far they been hating to love this guy... I Hope they wil take the right decision in the favor of Humanity
@Hasan Mehmood, what venom?
Pakistan demands that Kashmir issue be resolved under UN resolutions. So why then object when Hafiz Saeed should also be banned under UN directives???
Hafiz Saeed is Pakistan's best antidote for India, we must protect him at all costs. If Everyone can do whatever it takes to 'safeguard their interests', why can't Pakistan.
Wolf in the skin of a Man.
Hafiz Saeed is either a criminal or he is not. Our courts, including the Honourable Supreme Court, have declared him an innocent man. It is the responsibility of the State to provide assistance to its citizens, especially when they are wrongly accused and implicated. Amicus Curie Ahmar Bilal Sufi's suggestions are political and not legal. The court should ignore them.
Please also make it public that who has cunsulted AC. A.B. Sufi . Is it CJ or the govt.
Hope justice is not delayed in this case! Because justice delayed is justice denied!
(Saeed had pleaded that he is a citizen of Pakistan and enjoys the same rights as any other individual)
He must be kidding. He should be grateful to our spineless Govt. for still walking free and spreading his venom.