A tale of two Tatas

Published: August 8, 2012
The writer is an adjunct scholar with the Middle East Institute and president of Vizier Consulting, LLC. He tweets at @pakistanpolicy

The writer is an adjunct scholar with the Middle East Institute and president of Vizier Consulting, LLC. He tweets at @pakistanpolicy

Nestled in the green valleys of Waziristan are ‘factories’ that build small, innovative bombs that are used to kill civilians, power brokers and security personnel in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In Miran Shah, Mir Ali and Makeen, one will find what is probably the world’s greatest concentration of terrorist organisations — incubators for the world’s next great jihadi start-ups. In the Gujarat city of Chharoti, 2,000 miles southeast, is a factory building the world’s smallest car, the Tata Nano, a no-frills entry vehicle for the developing world’s new entrants to the middle class. These factories exist in the same subcontinent and their people share historical and civil ties. But these two areas, these two Tatas — the Taliban-Administered Tribal Areas and the Tata-driven India Inc — might as well exist in two separate worlds.

Perception is reality and so for all intents and purposes, these two sub-communities are a part of two different worlds: the former being part of what geo-strategist Thomas Barnett calls “the non-integrating gap” (places that resist global interconnectedness and do not assimilate to the system’s norms) and “the new functioning core” (places that have joined the old core in economic interconnectedness and play by the system’s rules).

By Waziristan, I am referring not to the native civilian population but to the nexus of local and non-local militants. It is completely unfair to use Waziristan to represent Pakistan as a whole but that is the way the world sees it.

Moreover, militant-occupied Waziristan is pulling Pakistan away from the global functioning core. This distancing is amplified by both a hyper-nationalism in urban areas that focuses on grievance at the cost of responsibility — on how Pakistan has been wronged by the world, instead of how it can make the world right — and an obscurant conservatism that has closed the Pakistani mind.

In the same vein, India Inc.’s achievements mask the dark reality that confronts the country’s majority. Left behind by corrupt governance and growing social inequity is India Stink, the India that many conveniently choose to ignore. It is the India where 65 per cent of the population lacks access to improved sanitation (compared with 52 per cent in Pakistan), the India where 50 per cent of the population practises open defecation (double the rate of Pakistan) and the India that is tied with Pakistan for the lowest life expectancy in South Asia (excluding Afghanistan).

India’s strengths should not be allowed to mask its weaknesses. The reverse is also true. It would be a mistake for Pakistanis to dismiss India’s ambitious and accomplished business and intellectual elite. They are brand ambassadors for their country. They now have a seat at the expanding global club of rule-making. And though it’s not quite a front-row seat, at least, they’ve got admission.

Pakistani elites don’t fare quite well in comparison. They are given temporary admission because they are seen as courageous outliers in a country gone mad. At home, they tend to be viewed with great suspicion. They’re generally dismissed as traitors who are part of an anti-Pakistan conspiracy. Something as simple as photos of them in Davos or Washington can serve as the smoking gun. But it is these individuals who can help fight the perception, the unfortunate and inaccurate contrast of incredible India and pathetic Pakistan and India the integrator and Pakistan the pariah.

Pakistan needs to develop an elite body that can speak the global language, partake in elite conversation and yet, have organic connections to their country. There is a global governance system to be shaped. Power dynamics are shifting. Ongoing and emerging challenges need to be confronted. Pakistanis must generate voices that can shape the debate on the evolution of collective security, conflict intervention, sustainable development and a host of other issues.

Those who join the super-elite, as Chrystia Freeland describes, tend to become trapped in a self-contained bubble. But the danger of producing rootless cosmopolitans without attachment to the homeland should be no reason for self-isolation; rather, it should provide motivation to pioneer in making exceptions to the rule.

Published in The Express Tribune, August 9th, 2012.

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Reader Comments (72)

  • Vikas
    Aug 8, 2012 - 10:28PM

    India’s population problem is because of people who will reproduce without having capacity to provide their children basic needs. If someone has resources, it doesn’t matter how many he reproduces, but when you are not able to take care of yourself, then why to reproduce so much.Recommend

  • jism
    Aug 8, 2012 - 10:31PM

    to truly build an world class organization,you need great visionaries.Visionaries who can foresee the future and take actions.Actions guided by knowledge and truth.There are quiet a few in Pakistan who are capable of gazing into the future.But for most Pakistanis,the world starts with Kashmir and ends with Islam,vice-versa is also true(and of course, add the nuclear weapons to the list).

    the super elite are not the one’s who lose attachment to their root,perhaps in achieving the super elite state,they learn and understand things which are beyond what a normal man can comprehend. If you were of the level of TATA,it wouldn’t matter even if you had not performed your religious obligations,coz at the end of the day,you know that you have built an empire which is providing millions with jobs and is source of bread butter feeding millions more.Recommend

  • 3rdRockfromtheSun
    Aug 8, 2012 - 10:41PM

    @ Author : You say “…Pakistan needs to develop an elite body that can speak the global language, partake in elite conversation and yet, have organic connections to their country.”
    For sure – but what will the ‘elite body’ say to the world? There has to be some mutually beneficial economic and social progress that they can talk about, else why would they listen to you!
    The ‘Indian elites’ have existed ever since independence, but only recently have found a voice and global acceptance because there was ‘real’ progress that they could talk about, and it was something that the rest of the world could benefit from.
    And yet you couldn’t talk about India’s progress without mentioning the darkside could you -even though it is not really relevant here. Believe me, no one is more accutely aware of India Inc’s shortcomings as was demonstrated by the power failure, than Indians themselves. But given its size, the task takes time – but things are moving in the right direction, and these issues are being addressed.


  • Zalmai
    Aug 8, 2012 - 10:42PM

    “Pakistani elites don’t fare quite well in comparison”.

    Which elite are you referring to? There are no Tatas, Birlas, Mittals, Malyas, Ambanis, Godrejs, Premjis or Wadias in Pakistan. Even Afghanistan has a media mogul, Saad Mohseni who is a darling of the west and has been on the Daily Show with John Stewart and on the Rachel Maddow show projecting a softer image of Afghanistan.

    Citing dubious statistics to show India in a negative light does not diminish the fact that Pakistan lags behind its erstwhile sibling in every aspect of development.

    Pakistan should not compare itself to India nor should it compare itself to Srilanka or Bangladesh. As a country with a colonial heritage it should have been trudging along further after 64 years but unfortunately all the South Asian countries have surpassed Pakistan in development.


  • Deepwater
    Aug 8, 2012 - 10:53PM

    Gotta love the Pakistani fixation on India’s outdoor defecation statistics. Nevertheless, as an all weather proverb goes, a journey of a thousand mile begins with a single step. India is taking those steps and many of these social problems will be addressed over time.

    The distance between Waziristan and Gujarat is much less than 2,000 miles – probably a third that.


  • Truth bites
    Aug 8, 2012 - 11:10PM

    My friend you should write for “The Hindu” not for a pakistani paper.


  • harkol
    Aug 8, 2012 - 11:48PM

    Trajectory of maturity in large nations shows us that nations go through horrid time in forging themselves. Countries like USA, Germany etc. didn’t reach a level of maturity in short period of time. But, Most followed two essential rules.

    1 Rule of Law: Ensure there are good laws and follow them rigorously.

    2 Democracy: Almost all high per capita nations reached there through democracy, Secularism and premise of equality of all men (irrespective of race, religion, creed).

    India at least has one of the essentials right. The other one is very very poor – thus the equity provided by law isn’t really reaching those who should get it. Hopefully India will mature.

    China has a tighter Rule of Law, but very poor democracy. The inequality is lesser in China, but like Germany of 1930s shows, prosperity with authoritarianism is a heady mix.

    Pakistan has someway to go on both equality as well as democracy.Hopefully it reaches there instead of collapsing.


  • kaka
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:06AM

    The title is hilarious…


  • Ali tanoli
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:15AM

    Indian jogis can stans on one leg for 20 years and pakistani jogis there whole life …. hahahah


  • Ali tanoli
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:16AM

    Correction Indian yogis and pakistani jogis.


  • Sapan Kapoor
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:19AM

    The idea of Pakistan has failed. It was bound to happen, for Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad had predicted it in 1948.


  • Truth bites
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:44AM

    I got your point ; )
    Hopefuly author will choose a less frank title


  • Mr Sunny Loni
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:50AM

    Indeed Pakistan has great number of visionaries liek Maududi, ZAB, Zia, Musharraf, Zaid Hamid. But they never got the full freedom a visionary requires or their lives were tragically cut short


  • Zalmai
    Aug 9, 2012 - 1:01AM

    “Pakistani elites don’t fare quite well in comparison. They are given temporary admission because they are seen as courageous outliers in a country gone mad. At home, they tend to be viewed with great suspicion. They’re generally dismissed as traitors who are part of an anti-Pakistan conspiracy. Something as simple as photos of them in Davos or Washington can serve as the smoking gun”.

    You should have named these elites who were in Davos or Washington but I don’t think you can because they don’t exist. You don’t have the equivalent of a Tata, Birla, Ambani, Mittal, Wadia, Godrej, Premji and Malya. Stop comparing Pakistan to India, you cannot compare apples and oranges.


  • numbersnumbers
    Aug 9, 2012 - 1:11AM

    @Ali tanoli:
    And HOW does your comment relate to the article?


  • Abbas, John
    Aug 9, 2012 - 1:12AM

    The author and many such ilk need far more education than the gun wielding taliban (who I believe have more sense than a many office going Pakistanis). The idea of where to keep religion and how much to believe in your religion, and to what extent you can bring religion into daily social affairs is not properly understood by tons of so called normal Pakistanis. Afterall the newyork bomber was not taliban but a brainwashed college going pakistani!!! Why does the author point to Taliban as if the rest of the Pakistani is secular and knows how to put religion in its place??? Thats your problem as long as you have people in society ready to kill for a religion, you will continue to go back to stone age and Taliban IS NOT responsible..it is the MANY of the ordinary ones living in your neighbourhood who entertain such radical views who are far more dangerous and are your versions of TATA. The author starts with this islamic radical problem and jumps to Indian weakness..how does a radical islamic unmanageable country compare with any secular society?


  • Arindom
    Aug 9, 2012 - 2:22AM

    Sir, so what you are suggesting is putting lipstick on a pig?


  • Arindom
    Aug 9, 2012 - 2:24AM

    @Truth bites:

    how ignorant! The Hindu, if you think it is communal, is far from it!! – It is a strong Leftist publication!


  • Aryabhat
    Aug 9, 2012 - 2:57AM

    No one has done wosre insult to genuis of Tatas then this writer! Comparing the GREAT family with “Taliban-Administered Tribal Areas ” Wow!

    As for the rest, yes, it is a “feel good” article trying to still prove that India and Pakistan are comparble! Keep trying. You have about 5-8 years. Then such artciles would not be printed and would not sell.

    Thank you!


  • Hari Sud
    Aug 9, 2012 - 2:59AM

    Your comment as quoted below:

    “growing social inequity is India Stink”.

    Would you like everyboby at the same level i.e. emphasized textpoor.

    This experiment was tried from 1947 till 1997 in India. At that time poverty and population multiplied. Hence there were greater number of poor people over four decades. It has changed in last 15 years. Poverty does not vanish in a decade but it steadily decreases. The only reason behind it is economic progress initiated by people who have the money and find ways to invest it into the economy. That creates jobs and jobs decrease the poverty. Any other way to vanish poverty is a negative propaganda.

    If you are thinking poverty has vanished in China; think again. A nation which exports 60% of its GDP can appear rich because wages have been paid and incoming cash has been spent on infrastructure. The forgoing leaves people poor. Chinese poverty level is a level lower than india but has not vanished. It is cleverly hidden. Just go 30 miles out of Shanghai. if your interpreter let you out of the car, you would see villages very similar to villages in India. Hence my point is that India poverty level is only one level higher than China. Reason is that what India started in 1997; Chinese began in 1981 – a full fifteen years earlier.

    If it is like Pakistan where nobody is doing anything about poverty; i may quite agree with you.


  • Indian(Rhode Island)
    Aug 9, 2012 - 3:11AM

    This problem is due to people of a particular community.


  • Ali tanoli
    Aug 9, 2012 - 3:21AM

    @Indian (Rhode island)
    and they are mejority of indias population.


  • Aamir Malik
    Aug 9, 2012 - 4:09AM

    I have always believed that Pakistan had a big lead over India in 1947. We had population of 30 million. While India had over populated states like West Bengal or Uttar Pradesh These are advantages which we should have given us a massive lead over India in GNP but we failed to achieve our potential.


  • Where do I begin
    Aug 9, 2012 - 4:15AM

    When the Gov-ISI-Military nexus stops investing in state sponsored religo-terrorism both within and outside the country, Pakistan’s brand image will automatically improve, irrespective of whether they have elites or not.

    When the citizens of Pakistan are more interested in making their lives better, instead of engaging in religious chest thumping, Pakistan’s image will improve. Emphasis on the citizens word please. A Pakistani friend of mine once made a cynical comment:

    “A liberal Pakistani is one who will drink alcohol, eat pork and then declare that Ahmedis do not deserve to live. A more liberal Pakistani will declare that they should live, killing is wrong but it’s definitely ok to destroy their mosques.”

    When the citizens of Pakistan, as self appointed leaders of the imagined ummah, start worrying about the persecution (murder, rapes, forced conversions, etc) of Pakistani minorities like the Ahmediyas, Shias, Hindus and Jews with as much zeal as they display while worrying about the real and imagined persecution of non-Pakistani Muslims, Pakistan’s image will improve.

    I could go on but what’s the use? When citizens of a country being torn apart because of self imposed religo-hatred think that Pakistan’s global image will improve as soon as they have a few elites, what more can anyone say?

    By the way, I know there are truly liberal Pakistanis who are horrified at what’s happening in the country. I’m referring to the so called “liberal fascists”. More power to them. But they would be the first to admit that they are a minority. Unfortunately, Pakistan has a stellar record of dealing with minorities.


  • Feroz
    Aug 9, 2012 - 7:13AM

    To compare TATA’s with any other Business group in India or Pakistan, is a one sided comparison. The Tata group has Business lineage of over a century. They are not only true builders of Institutions but have always contributed large chunks of their Wealth for charity and social causes.
    Pakistan needs to develop tolerance to have any hope of a TATA like figure emerging. Some semblance of rule of Law will also help.


  • Zalim Singh
    Aug 9, 2012 - 7:55AM

    every Pakistani seems to be obsessed with India’s open deification.


  • Usama
    Aug 9, 2012 - 8:23AM

    Awesome title.


  • Indian
    Aug 9, 2012 - 8:55AM

    two Tatas — the Taliban-Administered Tribal Areas and the Tata-driven India Inc

    Very nice summary of the current status of the two countries…..


  • vinit
    Aug 9, 2012 - 9:26AM

    I would like to add TATA’s are Zorastrians.
    Track record of Pakistan in its treatment towards minorities is dismal.
    Zorastrians or for that matter Muslims or Christians face no discrimination in India.
    Pakistan has to decide its own course whether it wants to be islamic country like Saudi or Malaysia…………..


  • kaalchakra
    Aug 9, 2012 - 9:36AM

    I resent the assumption that Pakistan suffers from a poor image. In many many more capitals Pakistanis are loved and respected as brothers than Indians can ever hope for. To give you just one example – a fine intellectual from Sudan – a leading power in South America – appreciated and thanked the nation of Pakistan for being an abiding inspiration to them. All jokes apart, can Indians show us ONE – just one – article like that?


  • John425
    Aug 9, 2012 - 10:23AM

    50% India’s open Defecation > 25% Pakistan Open Defecation. Hence pakistan is a more developed country. Mr.Zeta i am missing you let’s have a debate about open defecation. By the way in Pakistan do OD done on railway tracks?


  • Anonymous
    Aug 9, 2012 - 10:37AM

    Dear Pakistani’s Especially for those who are interested in comparing the statistics and then do the cheast thumping. Here is a bitter pill to swallow. Imagine for a second applying thought. Do you think if more than 50% of the country lives on less than 2 dollars a day, India would be at peace, OK some peace. It would be on the boil. Naxalism is a tribal vs state issue. Let us leave it aside for the sake of the debate.The fact is people enroll themselves as BPL (Below Poverty Line) to claim extra govt benefits. They automatically become eligible for the goodies, scholarships, and also free passes and extra rice, sugar, kerosine, in food ration and also subsidised LPG. Like the one uninon govt wants to give now, mobile phones worth Rs 7000 crores. Or Like in Tamil Nadu when TV’s & Laptops were distriubed to each family. Yes there is poverty. By the by I am well travelled, been to atleast 7 states. But I would peg it at 20%. I am from a lower middle class family myself. But I laugh at statistics I read them everytime. Keep churning more statistics.

  • Indian Catholic
    Aug 9, 2012 - 10:47AM

    Comparing the Indian Tata conglomerate to the Pakistani T.A.T.A makes for a good headline though it is of great disservice to the Indian one. Also I am sure that author just made up the name otherwise the ramifications are serious as it would mean that the state has given up on a portion of its territory.
    If Tata as the biggest business group in India must be compared to its equivalent in Pakistan, then it should be the Pak Milbus. Please read Ayesha Siddiqa’s book “Military Inc.: Inside Pakistan’s Military Economy” to know how the military controls 3% to 10% of the economy with vast tracts of land, marriage halls, corporate entities, etc.


  • Rajendra Rana
    Aug 9, 2012 - 11:10AM

    “you cannot compare apples and oranges. ” it should be you cannot compare apples and oranges with useless rotten fruits


  • Gratgy
    Aug 9, 2012 - 11:25AM

    @Ali tanoli
    and they are mejority of indias population

    Yeah majority of India’s terrorist and polio infected population


  • Zalim Singh
    Aug 9, 2012 - 11:52AM

    @ kaalchakra

    since when did Sudan become a leading power in South America? It is an African nation. And a horrible on as far as humanity is concerned. I think you are not even qualified to write anything here.

    And what kind of Inspiration can Pakistan give to Sudan? How to finish off the Christian minorities? I guess birds of same feather flock together.


  • Arijit Sharma
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:16PM

    @Zalim Singh: ” … every Pakistani seems to be obsessed with India’s open deification. … “

    Am not too surprised. Pakistan also topped in searches for unnatural forms of coitus.


  • GhostRider
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:22PM

    @Sapan Kapoor:
    Really…we dont thinks so…if the idea was fail you would not have been commenting here..atleast we are liberal enough to hear your rant…knowing we still have a better life style than you guys (dont believe me come and see it)


  • abbas
    Aug 9, 2012 - 12:24PM

    Sudan is in South America?
    Sudan – a leading power?
    What are you smoking?


  • H
    Aug 9, 2012 - 1:00PM

    India is definitely not a very prosperous country.But the statistics are very skewed ones even Govt. admits it.
    The below the poverty line statistics are mere hogwash.I am poultry farmer,but I bribed revenue officer to include my name in “marginal farmer” to avail of subsidized electricity.
    In my village a person owns AUDI but his name is in the below poverty line index.
    In India a person B.P.L. gets many concessions.
    It is hilarious but also a fact that most of rural Indians bribe “patwaris” to include their name in Below Poverty Line index.


  • gp65
    Aug 9, 2012 - 1:10PM

    @numbersnumbers: “@Ali tanoli:
    And HOW does your comment relate to the article?”

    Join the club. There is a large group of us who do not understand what Mr. Tanoli tries to comunicate – ever. He does however appear to be very sincere and persistent.


  • Cynical
    Aug 9, 2012 - 1:39PM

    @Zalim Singh

    ‘every Pakistani seems to be obsessed with India’s open deification.’

    …but why? May be a psychiatrist can give us an answer.


  • vinit
    Aug 9, 2012 - 2:28PM

    Either you are an arm chair researcher or God forbid pakistan’s education too has been talibanised.
    First SUDAN is in Africa.
    India is everywhere in Sudan through the ubiquitous Bajaj auto-rickshaws, scooters, TATA buses and trucks, pumps and pharmaceutical products (not to mention Indian films) found in all towns and cities.
    Much water has flowed since the Rs. 120 mn Line of Credit from India in 1980 disbursed by Exim Bank in 1982 (still to be repaid). During President Abdul Kalam’s 2003 visit, a US$ 50 million line of credit was extended to Sudan (the first ever on a Government-to-Government basis) for Indian goods and services in power, solar energy, railways and laboratory equipment.

    At the Donors’ Conference on Sudan in Oslo in April 2005, India (as its contribution to making unity attractive) announced a grant of US $ 10 million and a concessional Line of Credit of US $ 100 million. While the credit has been used for agriculture, industry and education, the grant is for state-of-the-art hospitals in north and south Sudan.
    The city where I live Pune has many Sudanese students,and they really love India.
    .Over 30,000 Sudanese have graduated from Indian universities. About 5,000 Sudanese students study in India each year.In fact I have Sudanese students as my neighbors…..

    Also Sudan is a major beneficiary of the Indian Technical and Economic Cooperation (ITEC) Programme, and over 150 Sudanese nationals train in India annually. India trains Sudanese diplomats at the Foreign Service Institute in New Delhi and offers Graduate and Postgraduate scholarships.
    Dear Kalchakra ask any Sudanese student who has studied from India,they all cherish fond memories of India.
    P.S. In Pune we have students from Bangladesh,Nepal,Mauritius,Iran,Ethopia and yeah from Myanmar too!!!!!!!!


  • elementary
    Aug 9, 2012 - 3:03PM

    What?? Sudan moved over to south America ?,to become superpower ?—and we all missed it !!!


  • Truth Bites
    Aug 9, 2012 - 3:22PM

    @Truth bites – why you using my nick to comment and mislead others, use your own imagination dude!


  • Dhruv
    Aug 9, 2012 - 3:57PM

    @Arijit Sharma:
    Am not too surprised. Pakistan also topped in searches for unnatural forms of coitus.

    Not only that, according to Google trends, Pakistan also tops the list for the most number of searches regarding ‘Bollywood’, more than India itself, and i see people trashng ‘bollywood’ on pakistani forums.
    Go Figure!!


  • Aug 9, 2012 - 4:05PM

    A Paucity of ideas is the problem in Pakistan.

    Not only a paucity but the inaneness of the few one’s ruling roost is also a matter of concern. For instance, just go back to the very idea of Pakistan- poor defined, vague, open to misinterpretation and just weak.

    Even though India is not perfect, the idea of India is perfect. This idea holds it together and allows a Parsi like Tata to build the greatest organisation of post-Industrial revolution India.

    Can a Parsi ever hope to do such things in Pakistan?


  • Polpot
    Aug 9, 2012 - 4:13PM

    Dont Compare India with Pakistan
    The correct reference for Pakistan is North Korea or Sudan.


  • Polpot
    Aug 9, 2012 - 4:15PM

    @ Author : You say “…Pakistan needs to develop an elite body that can speak the global language, partake in elite conversation and yet, have organic connections to their country.”
    You mean ppl like Hussein Haqqani the ex ambassador?


  • Polpot
    Aug 9, 2012 - 4:32PM

    Compare Pakistan to Afghanistan
    One is a graveyard of empires , the other
    is a graveyard of democracy, secularism and honesty.


  • Zalim Singh
    Aug 9, 2012 - 5:02PM

    TATA empire is a 100Billion USD company. Can any non-Muslim be allowed to prosper so much in Pakistan? This itself accounts to half of Pakistan’s GDP.


  • dude108
    Aug 9, 2012 - 5:58PM

    open delectation is to fertilize the farmland, its not bad all the time.


  • dude108
    Aug 9, 2012 - 6:02PM

    overall a good article.. if you don’t compare it with Taliban, it would be still a good article and may be more inspiring. Taliban factor is just to catch attension,


  • Gulkhaiz
    Aug 9, 2012 - 6:19PM

    Pakistan has become the biggest exporters of doctors to UK.Everyone knows that only bright and mentally sharp study medical sciences. So intellectually we are as good as the rest of the world.Further, Pakistan is fighting a war of subversion and terrorism for the last 10 years. Consequently,it has taken its toll,and is affecting all spheres of our socio- economic and political life. Time is not far when we will bounce back. Moreover do not get carried away with the cynical and sensational remarks of the writers.It is not a must that what ever they write should be accepted . .What about insurgency and killings in Assam? I think writer deliberately missed car manufacturing in Pakistan while writing about Nano.
    Writer has talked about that Global governance system is to be shaped. Who is going to govern whom?Then he writes about collective security. Security for Pakistan against whom.Pakistan has been in collective security pacts since its inception( NATO, SEATO). What did we gain?.Pakistan is actually in the forefront confronting emerging challenges. For God sake carry out research before using high sounding terminologies.
    Further, an old saying that “no one can make you feel inferior without your consent”. is worth pondering.


  • Polpot
    Aug 9, 2012 - 6:28PM

    @Polpot: “Compare Pakistan to Afghanistan”
    Never in my dreams did I expect to see this online.
    Salute ET!


  • Polpot
    Aug 9, 2012 - 6:35PM

    ““no one can make you feel inferior without your consent””
    I would say: Dont develop an inferiority complex, just accept inferiority.!


  • Polpot
    Aug 9, 2012 - 6:38PM

    @BruteForce: “Even though India is not perfect, the idea of India is perfect. This idea holds it together and allows a Parsi like Tata to build the greatest organisation of post-Industrial revolution India.”
    Very well said Sir!


  • Indian
    Aug 9, 2012 - 6:42PM

    Author is right word by word . But the hilarious points are when you compare Gujurat(preferably Gujuratis) to Wajirstan and Tata to TATA . I request the author to visit Gujurat if Indian authority permits . You will see the difference between whole of India(not saying about wajiristan) and Gujurat.Comparing Mr.Tata(my two generation including me were employees of this group) to TATA is really hillarious .Mr.Tata is no less than GOD in India and you will find hardly any critics of Mr.Tata in the world. And about your statitics , we are not sensitive to it . We are on the way of reformation .


  • Menon
    Aug 9, 2012 - 7:22PM

    India’s problems were not created overnight, it was created over hundreds of years of colonial rule and pillage. India cannot solve this problem overnight but India is working on expunging the problem. What are you doing, other than saying compared to Indis, Pakistan has a lower percentage? Do you even realize how absurd it sounds?

    It is not upto you whetehr India’s strength should be allowed or not allowed to mask its weakness. India is strong because of its standing in the international forums and with other countries. What is yours?Recommend

  • 1984
    Aug 9, 2012 - 7:25PM

    To give you just one example – a fine intellectual from Sudan – a leading power in South America

    Dafuq did I read??? I thought your moral compass was messed up…Now,I realise that your geography is similar to the your morality…

    Honestly,I would be surprised if you could drive home properly


  • Aarvey,india
    Aug 9, 2012 - 7:36PM

    @kaalchakra: Kaalchakra, always amazed by your words of wisdom. So many comments about your depth of knowledge and so many questions about Sudan. Care to answer any of them? In you case most of the times it’s better if you don’t comment at all!


  • Imaan Sheikh
    Aug 9, 2012 - 7:39PM

    I just died ROLFCOPTERing at the title.


  • Zalmai
    Aug 9, 2012 - 7:45PM


    Pakistan cannot be compared to Afghanistan either because the Afghans are not confused about their identity and they subscribe to an enduring national ethos, which does not exist in Pakistan. Afghans don’t pretend to be Arabs and they have resisted the Arabization of Afghanistan.


  • Ashvinn
    Aug 9, 2012 - 9:51PM

    Best resposeRecommend

  • Menon
    Aug 9, 2012 - 10:30PM

    @Aamir Malik:

    Actuallly you achieved your potential as Islamic Republic of Pakistan!


  • Menon
    Aug 9, 2012 - 10:43PM


    I want you to know that the “Afghanis are very insulted and hurt” with comparing them to Pakistan.


  • 1984
    Aug 9, 2012 - 10:47PM

    I think you’re wrong about Afghanistan…

    Afghanistan was the first non-Arab country which was Arabized with petro-dollars…Afghanistan before Taliban rule was tolerant to other faiths and their buddhist ancestory…During 1970s,women in Afghanistan were getting education and didnt cover themselves with burkha all the time


  • Mohinder sandhu
    Aug 9, 2012 - 10:54PM

    if india do not sign CTBT pakistan will not sign it,if india becomes a nuclear power pakisan will become one too,If in india movie GANDHI is made pakistan will also make JINNAH if india has bollywood, pakistan will have lolly wood if india progress in commputer technology pakistan wanna be one too, if india has TATA’S why will pakistan lag behind,they want have TATA’S too.So much hatred and so called two nation theory yet you want to be US.HOw come ??????


  • Zalmai
    Aug 10, 2012 - 12:25AM


    You got Afghanistan mixed up with Pakistan. Petro-dollars in Afghanistan is news to me and I am Afghan. We don’t have stadiums and mosques named after Arab tyrants in Afghanistan.


  • Aug 10, 2012 - 6:56AM

    Let us compare ourself to the west the developed country of the world like Europe, Russia, US please.

    We should try to only focus on the positives of everyone and avoid the negatives because our goals are to embrace the positives only.


  • Observer
    Aug 10, 2012 - 10:15AM


    “For instance, just go back to the very idea of Pakistan- poor defined, vague, open to misinterpretation and just weak.”

    Not at all vague! The ideology was very clearly defined- an Islamic state to uphold Islam where Muslims would be supreme. It was then codified in the constitution. The fact that it is not working well is a different matter.


  • BruteForce
    Aug 10, 2012 - 11:38AM


    Thats the problem, friend. It can be argued both ways. A Right Winger will point to many of the Jinnah’s speeches where the invokes Islam and say that.

    The not-so-Right will point to his 1947 speech.

    My observation stands. The idea of Pakistan was confusing, vague and open to misinterpretation.

    Conversely, the idea of India is well codified in the Indian Constitution and the writings of Gandhi/Nehru. Nobody debates that, because that would be a pretty one sided debate.



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