The water car fraud
At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a ‘water kit’ enabling any car to run on water alone. It didn’t matter that the rest of world couldn’t extract energy from water; he had done it. He promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise.
Agha Waqar Ahmad is now a national celebrity thanks to Religious Affairs Minister Khursheed Shah. Federal ministers Mir Hazar Khan Bijarani and Qamar Zaman Kaira have added their commendations. President Asif Ali Zardari has expressed his delight. The cabinet has met three times to discuss the water vehicle, and a fourth meeting is scheduled. Reports suggest millions may be spent on the ‘water fuel kit project’.
The media has rushed in to celebrate the new national hero. For TV anchor Talat Husain, thanks to Agha Waqar Ahmad’s invention, Pakistan’s image can go from a country ravaged by terrorism to one of boundless possibilities. Anchor Hamid Mir and Senator Parvaiz Rasheed drove around Islamabad sitting next to the inventor, wondering how to protect the man’s life from Western oil companies. Anchor Arshad Sharif was euphoric about the $14 billion Pakistan would save on oil imports.
Pakistan’s most celebrated scientists were not far behind. Asked by Anchor Sharif whether a car could run only on water, nuclear hero Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: “jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai” (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: “Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai” (I have investigated the matter and there is no fraud involved). The head of the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research, Dr Shaukat Parvaiz, went further: “hum nay bhi iss pay kam karaya tha” (we had some work done on this too).
So, what is the problem? It’s that the laws of physics, in particular a fundamental scientific principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, impose inviolable constraints. Every machine constructed anywhere uses the Second Law. This is something that I learned in my first year as a student at MIT and have taught for 40 years. No serious scientist would dream of challenging the Second Law. Agha Waqar Ahmad’s ‘water kit’, if one believes science to be right, simply cannot work. What the inventor, the ministers, the anchors and scientists claim on TV is wrong.
To his credit, the only person on TV that seemed to know this elementary principle was Dr Attaur Rahman, a chemist and a former HEC chairman. I have not agreed with all his actions and views in the past, but he alone rejected the claims about the new machine. Sadly, he was not able to hold back the tide of a nation desperate for any answer to its energy woes.
The water fraud will be exposed soon enough and, like a bad posterior smell, will go away. A simple experiment will make this happen faster. Here’s how: take an emergency electricity generator, of which there are thousands in Islamabad. Its engine is similar to that in a car. Remove the fuel tank and make sure the ‘water kit’ contains only water. Then ask the inventor to connect it up and run the generator. Let there be enough sharp-eyed witnesses of intelligence and integrity.
But this episode raises bigger questions. Scientific frauds exist in other countries, but what explains their spectacular success in Pakistan? Answer: our leaders are lost in the dark, fumbling desperately for a miracle; our media is chasing spectacle, not truth; and our great scientists care more about being important than about evidence. It is easy for them all to get away with this. As a nation, we have proven unwilling to do the hard work needed to learn to reason, to be sceptical, to demand proof, to understand even basic science. It is easier to believe the world is run by magic and conspiracies, to wish and wait for Aladin’s magic lamp. We live in the age of jahilliya.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 3rd, 2012.
______________________________________________
[poll id="836"]
COMMENTS (803)
Comments are moderated and generally will be posted if they are on-topic and not abusive.
For more information, please see our Comments FAQ
1737148219-0/Untitled-design-(63)1737148219-0-165x106.webp "article")
1732012115-0/Untitled-design-(14)1732012115-0-270x192.webp "interest free business loans offered")
waqar ahmeds invention is not fake and he proved it by testing the water kit on his own car. first think about what u say!!!!!!!!!!
@Tanzeel: "The Earth is Flat" is a theory which explains our observations about the world, not a law. Theories can be changed as new evidence is discovered but laws simply state an observation that is always observed to be true.
Example: Law - The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Theory- The earth is round and rotating on an axis with the sun in a fixed position. This explains explains our observation of the sun rising and setting.
Prof. Hoodbhoy, Is there a chance, though infinitesimally small, that this man (Agha Waqar Ahmad) is a Copernicus of 21st Century? I am sure when Copernicus presented his thesis telling the world (much ahead of its time) that the earth is round, not stationary, revolves around itself on its axis and, in turn, revolves around the stationary Sun, Hoodbhoys & Shafis of that era must have written reams & reams of articles tellin how crazy he was! I think a peep into what he has put forward is needed! Regards, K B Kale Metallurgist Jakarta PS: Is 811 responses (812 if my this response is published) a record in Pakistan?
There must be scientific committee to view and peer review for such claims. Dr A Q Khan and Dr Summer MUbarak Mund are our National assets. This time wasting critisim must be stopped now.
Dr Muhammad Sarfraz Abbasi Chief Investigator, Energo,Bhurban,Murree.
Didn't even AQ Khan vet it or something?
Even if it is a hoax. I want details.
In India, we had a similar case 16 years ago and we did this before Pakistan :-). The Indian right-wing had hailed him then, as a great 'Hindu Scientist' Google about Ramar Pillai and his quack idea !
On a serious note, why can't the sub-continent compete on long-term industrial science & technology that can benefit millions of people, instead of focusing on short-term media noise that benefits politicians and rich businessmen.
Dear all, Hamid Meer is the actual guy having played on the nerves of the whole nation, and made mockery of us all. He , as ever, tried to take the lead in breaking the news of having discovered the newly born Einstien in Pakistan without verifying or even referring it to the Physicists as it was not his field. In the process he has not only embarrassed the Physicists of the class of Hoodbhoy, but the entire nation. He simply didn't have the sense to conduct it in the backdrop of its importance. He simply wanted everybody to be convinced as was he himself and Dr. Qadeer Khan, without putting anything of the claim to experimental tests. This is how our anchors conduct the talk shows and finally conclude what they already have in their mind.
@LionOfPunjab: If this water kit works then I must say would you need to even think of India? I bet Pakistan will be able to run over USA in a matter of weeks. Invention of steam engine turned a poor European island called England into a world power. This water kit will do the same or I must say at much higher scale for Pakistan. I presume Pakistan won't share this technology with rest of the world at least until you control world economy and trash India in dust.
Sir GET UP & SHOW ALL THE WORLD THAT WHO R U
@Tanzeel: The earth is round was not a law, a belief! I am sure you know the different between the two, don't you?
In one kilogram of water, we have 111 grams of hydrogen atom, , so lets learn how much energy contain in 1kg of water or 0.111kg of hydrogen atoms. if e=mc2
= 0.111 x 300,000,000 x 300,000,000 = 10,000,000,000,000,000 Joules so 10000000000000000 Joules=2778000000kw or 3725000000 horsepower and your 1000cc car is only need 40 tp 50 horsepower. So car can run on water no doubt about it. Waqar is hero all big scientists are zero. except Dr Abdul Qadeer. let those who criticize Agha waqar . I think, first the should learn to communicate politely. they don't need to use words like nonsense. big discoveries are for the people who are simple and humble.
The way the media handled the case of Agha Waqar and sort of pitched him against the most respected scientist of our times Dr Ata u Rahman, reminds me of the "English Language Malakhra" in PTV comedy serial "Choti Si Dunya." In that Malakhra (competition) the illiterate villagers setup a jury to decide who knows more English; Janu German an illiterate villager or a person who had returned from England. Janu German in his presentation narrated ABCD.... and then 1234..... The England returned Sahab expressed a few sentences like, "I drank a glass of water sitting in the car." The jury decided that Janu German knows more English than the Sahab because the Sahab used two words of Urdu in his speech, "glass" and "car." The same type of Malakhra was done by the media, our politicians and the so called scientists on government payroll. The jury of these people and the illiterate Junta of Pakistan hailed Agha Waqar as the hero belittling a scientist of the stature of Dr Ata ur Rahman. I do not rate Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy very highly as an intellectual of integrity but in this case he is right in saying that we are living in the age of Jahilliya and the so called free media is ensuring that we remain that way.
I will not go in discussion if he really ran and can run an engine on water or not because in a few weeks we will all learn the outcome of this, but people please don't be so narrow minded and sight and don't simply start rejecting since no scientific formula or law of physics supports this, remember science only reflects how much we know so far, and most of these laws of physics and scientific evidences were defined between 50-150 years and are bound to have flaws. Generations to come will laugh at our scientific knowledge and believes more than what most guys here are laughing at Agha Waqar.
Don't forget all the political agendas and mafia like countries and powers in the world who make billions of dollars from oil as the main energy source, and they will do anything to keep it that way. Have you ever considered the problems Agha will be facing right now with perhaps secret agencies from many countries closely watching his every move? So the bigger question is that let's presume he actually did it and can run engine on water, would this ever come out as a success story? Wouldn't all the stakeholders who make billions out of oil do whatever necessary to stop him and prove him as a fraud? So let' just hope we get to know the real facts behind this story one day and not fed the main stream propaganda like this Mr. Hoodbhoy an MIT / USA agenda protector (writer of the article) is feeding us. He has already declared Agha as a fraud, isn't this what we call being the judge, the jury and the executioner himself? Mr Hoodbhoy, have some patience and let the right instruments of society and system declare him a fraud or a hero.
Just a question. It may sound stupid. How it is possible for a petrol/diesel engine to function on hydrogen gas or electricity?
He got so much airtime with this and not to forget attention from all Govt/Academic divisions. Turns out I have a solution too, I can solve the electricity issue my making light bulbs from potatoes. I am sure I can get support from Nawab Aslam Raisani he sounds reasonable much like Khursheed sb!
Interesting...the government should get an independent commission to test it out first and then meet in the cabinet. Don't hey have bigger issues to discuss?!?
@Adnan: i hope you buy that car, you will deserve it.
@Asok: ever heard of coal and fire Asok?
i dont understand why scientists are shying away clearly telling the world that the water kit is not runnung the car, it is batter that is providing energy to the kit, and while it looks like kit is providing energy, it is indirectly the battery that is taking hydrogen out from water, and it will consume the battery very fast, and need to replace the batter will be more costly than runnng the car on alternative energy sources.
@GS@Y: This is the same Federal Cabinet that made Ahamdis non Muslim even though they recite the kalima and made Prof Abdus Salam a football coach of the Punjab university, who was made Chair of the Atom collider at Triestse til his death.
We hero worship goondas and fake pirs, and we kill or destroy decent people like Dr Salam, Dr Qadeer is a fake, he own about 7 houses in Islamabad and his family owns more than 20 around the world.
@Ali: The most amazing thing was when Dr Qadeer Khan and Dr Mubarakmand supported this fraud, seems they are frauds themselves, using trickery to fool the people for so long, the real scientists were behind the scenes.
@Tanzeel:
Wow! you had 343 ignorant supporters for your very stupid statement, We are not living in the dark ages, we can prove many theories today.
What do you want to test? The guy had nothing installed but a fake filter.
2+2 will always be 4, no matter how many years pass, it will never be 5.
People like HoodBhoy are scared as they won't be able to sell their Chooran.
@Tanzeel: earth is Flat was Theory not a law, Earth is Round is a LAW "I dare you Try to break it" ......... Laws cannot be broken, only theories take U turn, once a law is established, it cannot be broken, you can try but you will be wasting your time. these laws exist not to limit you, ( you can always try to go against them). they exist to guide you, so that you would not waste your time trying to disprove them, because no matter how hard you try, you will fail.
I understand basic chemistry that water is inert due to lack of electrolytes. My question is can water be separated into its constituents: hydrogen and oxygen, hydrogen then being used as clean, efficient fuel for the car? (I remember conducting an electrolysis experiment, I added a little bit of acid to increase the bubbling at the electrodes). Hmm, but then energy would be needed to make hydrogen and oxygen react (for the burning of hydrogen) to get energy. But where will THAT energy come from? Will batteries be sufficient to provide that amount of energy or will something else be needed? Will it work? Am I following a correct thought process here?
Please correct me where I am wrong and refrain from using condescending remarks; I am not a Chemistry or Physics student. The knowledge (or whatever is left of it) I have is O level based and I would actually like to learn something new and different...
It should be checked in a close environment under the presence of Scientist & Media , & we should give time to Agha Waqar to prove his science !!
Why is Hoodhboy criticizing Dr. Samarmubarik Mand, He consistently criticized it as being a fraud http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryl09i6Sps0
Dear Dr Pervaiz. I really appreciate your column and 100 agreed. However, It was not shocking for me as I know the level of ignorance in my beloved country. I submit Dr sb should not engage himself in this rubbish. Please dont waste your time!!!
in one program he is saying that he stores hydrogen and in one program he is saying that he is not storing hydrogen gas
you can clearly listen the reviews of dr sammar mubarik mand on this invertion that :he had mixed something which is carbyde link: http://www.zemtv.com/2012/08/14/agha-waqar-water-kit-was-fraud-explained-by-dr-samar-mubarak/
see the words at 1:54 and the truth will revael
Not sure about Ahmed Waqar's scientific and engineering capability but he sure makes the cut to be a future politician.
The water car (may be - a scam) defies all the logical reasoning and fundamental laws of Thermodynamics. However we have to give Mr. Agha Waqar assistance to present his ideas. I have watched his talk last night on Geo - with Mr. Hamid Meer, he lacks technical and academic skills to express himself. Even if his electrolysis process is not self sustainable - can assist in present combustion process to reduce fuel consumption and carbon foot print. Further before giving him further grants/funds/asistance for research from straining resources his work should be understood and vetted by country's renown researchers to investigate and exploit his claims or findings.
Most of our scientist in universities are doing nothing but only teaching. the research paper they publish are not their novel research but mostly experiment of the previous scientist and they only change the name of the materias. Most of the research paper published of our scientist in research journal are with low impact factor journal or the journal take alot of money for accepting the publication. No scientist in university work whole heartedly and they only work for their survival. they teach only theories of 1800, 1900 and 20th century. they all are non sence and currept. They prepare project only to get money from HEC or PSF. The scientist of pakistan can not bear it that why a diploma holder and water kit car? so they creitised Agha waqar. I accept Agha waqar is not a great scientist, but he made a simple experiment of water electrolysis and production of H2 gas that run a car, he may not know the principle behind, but for pakistani scientist it is not fair to cretised agha waqar work, they have to go, look at the water kit and find the mechanism and principle behind the water kit, the law of thermodynamics may be wrong. When I see pakistani scientist, like hoodbhi, shaukat hameed and many others cretised agha waqar work, I am afraid Pakistan atomic power plant may also a fraud. Shame on you All Pakistani universities Scientist, what you have done for pakistan.
@Farhan: If only somebody would write a third law of thermodynamics! Since Nernst did his work in the early 1900's though things just seem to be getting far too disordered!
There should be Independent Scientific Body to examine such claims.After the Approval or Disapproval of the Scientist body.Big Inventions donot happen in nature daily.They Happen in Centuries.Serious consideration must be given to a claim before saying it to a scam. Pakistan has great Talent.Hydrogen Car do exist,LENR Cold Blast do exist.
Dr M S Abbasi Chief Investigator, ENERGO,Bhurban, Murree.
Scientific Inventions are not a game.we should not comment on any invention untill and unless it is approved or disapproved by Indipendent Scientist Body.Water is a main source and Hydrogen Car Exist.LENR is a fact now.we can get cheap/Clean energy by spending a little.For example 1 Litre of Hydrogen In LENR Fusion with special catalyst gives us 70 Trillions Joules energy. Hydrogen is big energy carrier. Hydrogen is cheap and green energy. Hydrogen will be Fuel and Energy for future.
Dr M S Abbasi Chief Investigator, ENERGO, Bhurban,Murree.
Serious claims require serious considerations. Its not the first time that someone claims to have proven an established law wrong, or at least not true under all conditions. We have seen that time and length were considered constants by Classical Physics, but proven to be variants under special conditions(bodies under motion, relative to the speed of light). Mass was consider indestructible, proven wrong.... So, at least serious consideration should be given to such a claim! Everyone has become a fortuneteller, but none seems to get down there and verify the claim. Yes, it may possibly be a scam, but who knows?
@Tanzeel Law of thermodynamics and the earth being flat are completely two different things. The earth being flat was an idea propagated by the 'Church', and those who said otherwise were labelled heretics and dealt with strictly. It wasn't a law of science in anyway.
You're right that we should be open to new ideas, but the laws of science are the established facts that cannot be proven wrong, unless God decides to rewrite the script (laws) of the universe. So what mr agha claims is against the laws of science so clearly, that i think we dont even need to inspect his car. Just tell him 'you're wrong and science is right'.
Mashallah mashallah. I did not know that Pakistan had so many water car experts. And somehow they all are present on ET. Just a question? Is there a degree on water car expertise somewhere??? Agha Waqar !!!!! it seems your fans know more about water cars than you do!!!!
It's fraud nothing else, i have read the whole researches of the century.... No one was able to do this, some how at some point it was caught. Don't be so excited so we become blind to 4get about the science and it's laws
We can only Run A Car on Water through LERR Technology.People now a days run cars just on Hydroxy Gas Derived from 2H2o by Electrolysis and claim that they run their car on water, this is not true at all.Actually they use Fossil fuel and Hydroxy Gas.Hydrogen is big energy carrier in the shape of potensil energy.for a motion Kinetic energy is needed. We can run car or any Generator if we know the LENR Technology and the special catalyst used in the LENR Cold Blast,and even after that we cannot say Water Car.we can say HYDROGEN CAR,because water is main source and Hydrogen is energy carrier. By using LENR Cold Blast we can get 70 Trillions Joules from 1 Litre of Hydrogen in water, which is greator than Fossil fuel or Uranium- 235 to the equivalent weight of Hydrogen. In this LENR Cold Blast no scientific Existing Law will be broken. Exothermic energy produced from the reaction will be used to power Car.LENR will obey E=mc2
Dr Muhammad sarfraz Abbasi Chief Scientist, Energo,Bhurban,Murree.
Worrying point I noted that one well known nuclear scientist came out supporting this fraud. That was pathetic to see,
http://www.commercialmotor.com/transport-news-brief/boc-to-fuel-scotland%E2%80%99s-first-fleet-of-hydrogen-buses
Must read this.
Thanks Hoodbhoy in giving a summarized interpretation of an empirical and a conventional theory involved. I do reckon that Waqar should comprehend the basics before he attempts to enter the threshold of quantum sciences.
In the first instance, this guy is not a full fledged engineer like a BS or a BE. He says he is an associate Engineer (Diploma) from a technical training center in Khairpur. The way he talks on his theory gives an impression of a snake charmer peasant of Khairpur, picking dates for his livelihood. Mechanically inclined he might be but I have got a feeling that this is a plot and what ever he utters is scripted. All the admiration bestowed by these scientist besides Dr. Atta also seem to be scripted. Imagine, he takes his papers to MIT Boston, Berkeley or Georgia Tech to patent and reserve his copyrights.He will be booked for a three count felony as an impostor. Obviously the epilogue of this drama also seems inevitable. He and his patrons will exhort a sizable amount of funds from the federal reserve in billions and every body else who are in this plot will be remunerated. Every thing will fizzle out in few months from now and Waqar will be at large. Take my words as granted this is going on since last 65 years, therefore I would suggest that stop balking at the wrong tree. You are among few discernible taxpayers, non-political educated elite of the country you wouldn't take all this crap seriously would you. For you and me this is nothing more than a Mickey Mouse stuff.
Mubarak said in his interview that in order to produce 1 Kw of energy, you need about 1 cubic meter of Hydrogen but he did not mention at what pressure, I heard the other scientist who said something about Oxyhydrogen by splitting H and O2 atoms and fusing them together for the combustion. What happens to the 20.9 % atmospheric O2 which is siphoned in by the engines vacuum to atomize liquid fuel. If he is using both the source the cylinder lining and the piston at the top dead center will encounter rapid pitting and eventually, would seize to operate. In that small teenie meenie non virgin, recycled HDPE bottle ( Used for domestic household water filter) you think he will be able to produce several cubic meters of hydrogen to run the engine.
Instead a scientifically viable method should be to generate H through electrolysis which isn't new in electro-chemical process, formulate a ratio in accordance to the endurance level and metal fatigue of the engine. Compress the mixture in a spiral wound CNG cylinders and use it like the LPG taking all the safety in serious consideration. Who will do all this? imagine the tremendous amount of R&D involved, from where are we going to get the team of scientist? In this PIO PILAO political infrastructure our youth are more interested in shortcut than sincere hardwork. May be it could have been possible about 50 years back, but after all that is what is history all about.
Best regards
Obeid Rehman
Tx, USA
@Tanzeel:
I have not witnessed the Agha's Water Kit in person and I cannot in this situation comment about it's success or failure; however I believe the answer is really simple. If an ordinary prudent person witnessed the water kit in person and demonstrates before the media and other scientists that the car was running 100% on petrol fuel (fossil fuel), than only he would be in a position to declare Agha as fraud, otherwise not at all. In this case the people like hoodbhai, ataur-Rehman, kamran khan, samarmand etc, etc how hastefully declared Agha as fraud, without taking the trouble of investigation or phisically proving that the car was running with 100% petrol fuel just demonstrates their ignorance about the fundamentals of science. They dont even proved themselves even as a student of science. I dont know how much percentage of petrol is mixed by Agha in his water kit experiment; however in any case if it saves even 10% of fossil fuel in the country it would have been a thousand times more better contribution to this country as compared with these above mentioned so called scientists have contributed to this country in years and years of their so called research and billions of dollors of expences out of our poor pockets. I can only say that unless these so called self proclaimed scientists have practically prove in front of all media and other small scientists (small in their eyes), that the Agha's Water Kit was 100% running on fossil fuel, we have no choice to declare them as FRAUD on their part.
water powered cars have been invented before please check my channel,
http://www.youtube.com/user/water4octane
**This technology is not new water powered cars exist please go to this youtube channel
** http://www.youtube.com/user/water4octane
People here are talking about Laws of Thermodynamics. What are these laws invented by man? Does Science end with these laws. So many time man made laws have proved wrong. Only laws enunciated by Allah Subhano tallah are eternal. So let us help this true musalman to provide Pakistan with the much required electricity. After the invention of atom bomb by Dr. Qadeer we have another great inventor amongst us. May Allah bless Rehan Aziz Farooqi.
Dear Prof Sahab, I do feel your pain. I was saddened to hear Dr Khan and Dr Shaukat Parvaiz support idea which a O level student should know is impossilbe. Hopefully sanity will prevail in the people of our country.
Dozen of people in pakistan and hundrads in the world cllaim about water car invention. according the modern science it can happen only through LENR Cold Fusion process other wise impossiable.People must know the difference of Hybrid and Water Car. Hybrid Technology: by this technology you can make your car Hybrid which means more than one power source. Water Car: This uses water as main source,Hydrogen is Generated.Generated Hydrogen and Nickel through LENR(low energy nuclear reaction).which is exothermic reaction. In this process we can get 70 Trillions Joules of energy from 1 Litre of Hydrogen.
Who killed the electric car? Documentary 2006
http://vimeo.com/19863733
This is typical of Professor Hooodbhoy to critisize without much of research on his part about the situation. This concept is not new and people around the world and specially in the technologically advanced countries like Japan and the US, people have actually put this kit into cars. You just need to either google or search on youtube. You can check out the below link on youtube for such a car made in Japan and is in test. May be it is a hoax or may be it is not. If you read how the technology works, then you will understand that it may very well be possible to commericalize it for the better of public. All i'm saying is that don't refuse the idea just becasue you didn't come up with it first. Be a good sports.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME
Desperation is at its peak. This is the reason why educated politicians are ,now, the need of an hour. We should as a nation proliferate our basic education system and government should device a proper way of scrutiny of these miraculous conviction, a stupid can introduce to exhibit his jugglery to energy starved nation as to make them ignoramus. This incident also revealed the our media specially anchor persons are spoon feeding our nation, the conglomeration of fear, imminence of danger and miracles that would never happen and imposing their believes on them by self assumed conclusive remarks.
Top is always vacant, if u can not reach ,u can not argue that no one will reach. i strongly believe that one should accept new ideas but this is an old tradition from thousand years that people do not believe upon new ideas untill n unless creator is dead. After his/her death people reward his grave upon his works.
@Tanzeel: Earth is flat was not a law.
It was a theory put forward by idiots who had no connection to science. Proven scientific facts do not change with era. Tomorrow the gravitational force will not dissapear if any idiot claims he can fly.
To break the water into hydrogen and oxygen the same energy is required again as and when the originally water was created, and that sure was KUN FAYAKOON, the Creator Himself created and established all the sources of energies with one word i.e. "KUN". I am surprised that how could a local engineer without higher knowledge of physics and thermodynamics statures and rules, make such a large source of energy from a 45-50amp battery of a small car for IC engines. Energey cannot be destroyed but energy can be converted from one shape to another with some fraction of loss of energy during coversion. so amazing that a small battery can break the water molecules and separte atoms of oxygen a hydrogen for gaseos supply of fuel to the engine inlet, while this energy will be needed at much higher level of potential.
Dear Readers, not Sindhi politicians.
The hoax of water tank is nothing but a stunt of provincial chauvinism. I taught in a university and college in the interior Sindh for 35 years in a row,. experienced, got victimized of extreme communal prejudice.All teachers, even PhD s favor students either of their GOTHs, or CASTE., disfavoring non-Sindhis students, ridiculing 'alien' teachers. In Sindhi they say with scorn :Pehn Jo (mine) Parayo (alien,) Makkar (locust). They proudly believe that Sindhi language is superior to English. This Agha Waqar is being made a celebrity just for nothing. Since I was born in Sindh, speak so perfectly the Sindhi language, I remained an outcast. After retirement other sons of the soil were taken up. The present VC Dr A.Q.Mughal is of the same age but related to Zulfiqar Mirza. Many such are re-appointed and working. Nothing to be concerned about. No wonder Agha Waqar would be granted billions of dollars for his 'CAR'
I think the magic is in electrodes. These are not normal electrodes. Something is done special with electrodes to boost the process of ionization. There are high chances that this invention will give a new direction to known science.
@Dr Sada Hussain: also dr. Aqadeer Khan said that, ''this is no any fraud, if I can b there I myself check kit in 5 minutes and give him certificate. If you think this is fake you must go to Waqar and examine kit practically yourself. If u find any fraud then u can talk about.''
sir you should get on facebook. we need updates from you through social media
Dr. Hoodbhouy u have problem with this one trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute.
Being a simple Post Doctorate student here in the Ontario Cancer research institute Toronto Canada, I feel once a Pakistani scientist reach to a TV stage, its stop thinking and go with a way to keep his position more prominent in the eye of common Pakistani people. That's the reason that so many PhD was blindly following the dumb claim of this person and no body was asking him to give the simple principle that how he generate energy from simple HHO molecule.
me & my friends were talking about this few days ago and simply got the answer that it is fraud .....because it is a simple science...
As a "scientist" who doesnt actually do anything of substance and only writes news articles, I would have expected Hoodbhoy to at least have done his research regarding the subject. E.g., whereas Hoodbhoy mentions Dr Samar agreeing with Agha Waqar's claims, I just saw this video where Dr Samar clearly took Agha Waqar to the cleaners dispelling his claims using practical physics that every one in the audience could understand (rather than claiming a theoretical principal without explaining its relevance as Hoodbhoy has done).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip1IE0NSuRM
My first reaction after hearing the news was to overlook it and c if the car runs. I could not go to witness it. A Q and Samarmand have given u something...what has Hoodbouy ever given u except ridicule? I don't know if Samarmand or AQ have endorsed it, If they have, then if the boy has been able to befool them, u can rest assured that your nukes ain't going to work. Can't u people wait and Hoodbouy b patient? Nobody is doing anything momentous in the country and if the cabinet wastes another day, what have they gained in the last five years? However, warn the budding scientist that if the car doesn't run as claimed, he shall have to spend the rest of his days in an asylum. I am not going to support AQ in his hospital or whatever project he is backing nor should Samarmand b given the Coal Thar project if this car is a sham, in case they were satisfied that boy is sane.
He has explained it very well. I remember meetings with him, and he couldn't be defeated even if he was drunk. He knows how to use brain and words.
@Muhammad Shoaib Akif: "You better create a dam like situation in a car of a horrible volume than to question second law of thermodynamics."
I think you have not read my comment properly. I was responding to Haris who was implying that water could generate electricity in a dam why not in this kit. I was explaining to him that it was not water per se but potential energy from being at the height that got changed into kinetic energy and subsequently converted to electrical energy. In other words a dam does not violate 2nd law of thermodynamics whereas this crazy waterkit does. Hence the 2 cannot be compared. I have never questioned the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
I read a lot of people who call it a man made law. They clearly do not understand that this is a law in nature which was simply discovered by men. Also comparing a law like 2nd law of thermodynamics to flawed hypothesis like earth is flat ans saying if one could be wrong, so can the other shows nothing but ignorance. When people claiming to be mechanical engineers also say things like manmade scientific laws can be changed - poor Attaur Rehman must be feeling that all his hard work in HEC seems to have gone down the drain.
Have read this article twice , very well written !
Let it be clear in an objective and impartial manner. If it succeeds, too good. If it fails, not too bad. Afterall, it was an effort by a Pakistani and we should encourage it. I have seen in the West that people come up with crazy ideas and test them again and again. Sometimes, they are successful and sometimes they are failed. It is a not a big deal. If this was done in US or UK, Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy would never have dared to criticize it. Why? He earns good dollars by teaching in US universities during the summer months. What practical contribution Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy has in the field of physics? During all these years, he has done nothing, except writing articles on politics and current affairs. He is just a mediocre who earned a degree in Physics. These type of mediocres can only do one thing, teach at university. When Mr. Hoodbhoy comes up with something important in the field of physics, he has a right to criticize others. Otherwise, he should keep his mouth shut and indulge in teaching only.
Had Mr. Waqar been my teacher, he would have saved me from swallowing "Thermo" in 4th semester...Alas !! Dr. Qadeer and Dr. Samar Mubarakmand.. During all / most of their careers Dr.Qadeer and Dr. Samar Mubarak both worked more as bureaucrats than real scientists..using their stick to drive scientists / engineers under them to work on stolen technologies..they never taught science..if they had ever published in recognized journals it was long long back during their Ph.D. studies...so I believe they have long forgotten the Alif ..Bay ..Tay of science...they have totally forgotten then fundamental laws of physics and their implications...they are now more of politicians then scientists..hungary for quick publicity..except that they can write Dr. before their names...they are just like most of our Ulema who are quick to dislodge Fatwas and have forgotten the fundamental teachings of our religion.
this experiment didnt proved 2nd law of thermodynamics as false statement.this is just a western propagenda to take this invention away from pakistan if there is something wrong with this experiment then why did the uk companies offerd engineer agha to work for them.
I think discussing on first law of thermodynamics and else is not effective for this debate. It is so simple that water is electrolyzed in Hydrogen and Oxygen through giving it DC current and current is given through battery. while the battery is charged through generator and the you all know very well the generator runs the car engine. So how you can say that the amount of energy consumed would be equal to amount of generated. This is not a new experiment this is already done by other world also. the Hydrogen has been produced through some other experiments also. So if Agha Waqar clains that he has invented water kit its not amazing and not impossible. Let him give a chance instead of discouraging him. Please think positive and encourage him until he proves him right or wrong. Why Dr. Attaurehman dont meet with Agha waqar and prove him fraud.
I can see another Stanley Meyer with his "Water Car fraud". Agha Waqar Ahmad is copying a fraudulent idea of 90's of Stanley Meyer's "Water Fuel Cell". Lets see....
I totally agree with this guy.......!!
My guess is that Agha Waqar Ahmad's life expectancy is getting short. The only way I can see foir these people to save face is for him to be killed by the evil oil industry and for his water fuel kit to mysteriously disappear.
The real issue here is that "intellectual dishonesty" over the period of time becomes an integral part of one's personality. This incidence has revealed that it has definitley become a building block of our national character.
Thanks very much Pervez Hoodhboy for writing this article. A typical pakistani really loves Drama, Sensation & Myth. So they got all these from Agha Waqar but he should be given credit for giving the Pakistani Nation a reality check. Not sure if the nation has the ability to realize?
Yes I know It will be proven fraud and history will repeat itself because of the free energy supperession. There are huge number of people who have been ridiculed. Anyone who is puppet of zionists or making money through fuel will not support this. Its a FACT that water cars are in use in the world. If you want to live in a box thinking that its not possible then its your choice because thats what you have been brainwashed to think. People do your research it is 100% proven that car can run on water. They want you to think its a faud because they are brainwashed by the knowledge put together by zionists. Dont be among those who used to think that world is flat.
Its a shame that majority of people are brainwashed including phd holders. Question we need to ask is why after all that study they are like this? There is only one book which is the ultimate truth and that is Quran. Any other book should be read with open mind. Don't believe each and everything what you read double check before you accept. Yes i also mean the books of science.
A really concise article... an eye opener for all...!!!
You just wrote in genral about what so ever happened and who said what..... Why don't you just prove this is a fraud rather then just saying it out loud.... Prove it.... I am sure its easy to type in words on a keyboard rather then go out and prove the whole idea as a fraud
Similar news appeared some time back when a LAhore-based Engineer made similar claim. Why can't our genuine scientists take up this job and come up with a genuine solution? By the way, had this been technically viable, The Americans, Japanese and Europeans etc., must have introduced Water-Driven Cars, at least 40 years back. Wake up innocent people of Pakistan!
Let c, prior to any rzlt, it is foolish to conclude anything. The writer has given his opinion and tried to protect Mr. Atta Ur Rehman, who even dont know how to speak.
Dr. Samar is a great scientist and we truly believe his knowledge and observation. I have seen the interview on PTV regarding the car water kit, in which Dr.Samar, Mr. Agha and Commission chief Engr were present. Dr. Samar never said that this kit is feasible for safe operation of car or that the water can be used alone as energy source. He stressed that that there must be carbide present in the water but the inventor was hiding that. We salute Dr. Samar n Dr. A.Q.Khan for their valuable contribution in nation development.
I hope sir you are wrong, and if you are I would suggest you what an MIT student did, he wrote Newton’s equation for acceleration before jumping out the window to his death!
well, i really don't care if all that's being said and done is right or wrong. but what's annoying is the fact that... people are opposing that guy from their offices and drawing rooms. none of them has gone to his car and exposed if he is wrong.
and all those who r shouting 'thermodynamics thermodynamics' well, had this been really done and proven by sum random guy from MIT, probably all of you would have been jumping and shouting 'Wow, next giant leap to landing on Mars' with excitement including Mr A & Mr H.
Pathetic.
I am deeply shocked to see that our scientist are not aware of the fundamentals of science. I think the so-called uneducated engineer from the rural areas must have believed the popular, yet not accurate in the subject of science, dictum that laws are made to be broken. Its not very difficult to prove it wrong. Get some experts who are working on fuel-cell technology and get it examined. It wouldnt take more than an hour.
@Zunaira: Ma'am, Laws are not man made, Laws are made by God, or you may call it nature. Humans only discover them. Theories take U-Turns, but Laws can never ever.
Thank god at least it is mr. Agha who took special pains to remind the world including us that we are living in the dark ages in pakistan while the world has entered 21st century long long ago. I could see this charlatan being interviewed by Hamid mir pretending to have lost evey single penny borrowed to undertake that great experiment. He was also claiming that he had been left with only a few rupees after have spent everything on the experiment. I can remember his face, eyes, deceitful smile and ever gesture that we all are familiar with. On ever turn in this hapless country, we are faced with such cheats and I mean everywhere. Just look around.
this is the joke of the century ...... water as a fuel .....
a diploma holder telling a scientist (who has 600+ international publications) in a TV program that how science works .... First there is a practical demonstration and then then theory is made ..... Wow
And our nuclear scientist also praising our national hero for his 'Mother of All' invention.
Also, i am quite surprised from the comments of some students and engineers .. favouring their national hero ...........
China has plan of putting their man on moon ......... indians will be sending satellite to mars ....Americans already conquered mars .....
And our pakistani nation celebrating 'WATER KIT INVENTION' !!!!!!!!
Since the water car fraud is apparent, so what next now? Time to roll some heads? or not? What about those so-called scientists, sitting on posh seats in - 'science council', and were supporting this guy, 'Agha the inventor', for reasons known and unknown; one reason was obvious, and that was serious lacking of basic knowledge about physical laws even at professional levels, and other reason could be to promote some Newton from province of Sindh, for many yet claiming on ethnic TV channels that Agha Waqar has brightened the name of his province and country, really? With all due respect, my comment intend to harm no one, but seriously, is it the way to promote some land? No wonder plagiarism has become a norm of daily life and people feel not guilty for a slightest moment.
705 comments cool it man this guy is having his moment in he sun in a few months it will be back to square one.
@Kanwal: well whats your IQ level?
Pl go and check yourself
whose more ignorant...a man who makes a tall claim....or the people that mock him without asking how? Ignorance comes in many forms and the worst type is ignorance displayed by "educated" people.
Engineer Agha Waqar is using Carbide with water to produce gas (acetylene gas) to run vehicle. They are commonly used in lamps etc.
Carbide lamps, or acetylene gas lamps, are simple lamps that produce and burn acetylene (C2H2) which is created by the reaction of calcium carbide (CaC2) with water. Acetylene gas lamps were used to illuminate buildings, as lighthouse beacons, and as headlights on motor-cars and bicycles. Portable carbide lamps, worn on the hat or carried by hand, were widely used in mining in the early twentieth century. They are still employed by cavers, hunters, and cataphiles.
He use calcium carbide C2H2 to produce acetylene (ethyne) gas calcium carbide C2H2 with react with water to produce it
(Acetylene (systematic name: ethyne) is the chemical compound with the formula C2H2. It is a hydrocarbon and the simplest alkyne. This colorless gas is widely used as a fuel and a chemical building block. It is unstable in pure form and thus is usually handled as a solution. Pure acetylene is odorless, but commercial grades usually have a marked odor due to impurities.)
*I think this is wrong to write something about new invention, if you are not try it by your own self. We people never appreciate new things because over faith on previous theories are too strong and there is no space to accept any invention or concept. You know, these theories are made by different paradigms, and these paradigms can never be false or true, but changed after different researches or inventions. It is difficult to accept a new idea because we continued our research on the behalf of previous paradigms. E.g, there was a concept that sun revolved around the earth then the paradigm changed and new theory is appeared that earth is revolving around the sun. I don't say that accept it soon but please give him a chance. Try it and then prove it wrong or right. On the behalf of your theory don't reject any new idea. I am not try to defend but also not want to be against it. *
Prof Hoodby have exposed not only AQKhan, Mir, Talast and the like but the the affair of the state and its people that are in delusion for over 60 years. They are waiting for Imran Khan Tusanmi and doing nothing, they are waiting that US, India and the West will be destroyed... they are not doing or thinking of anything positive to emerge... lets hope Hoodby's words awake these BadQismat people and nation...
@Wall builder:
I am speechless. Sir do you have ANY idea as to what you are talking about ?
Love all your work, Pervez.
From abroad, just hearing rumors about this "discovery", I thought it was a cheaper method of making fuel cells. Catalyzed electrolysis of water into hydrogen, hydrogen gas should be able to work on CNG/LPG cars with not too much modifications. Sad to hear that it's all a fraud, was hoping for some good and innovative research coming from the region.
Remembering the famous saying 'A maulvi says that whatever he utters is right; while a scientist humbly submits that whatever is right shall be uttered". Coming to the ongoing debate, I humbly say that both sides are WRONG (Prof Ata vs. Dr AQ Khan etal), for a simple reason that the poor soul (Engr. Waqar) has not presented the technical details of his invention at any forum (atleast to my knowledge). And look at us we are jumping to the conclusion that 2nd law of thermodynamics has been violated or a perpetual motion machine is impossible.
Everybody knows Conservation laws cannot be violated. Perhaps Mr Waqar is not contesting the Law and just claiming that he has invented an energy efficient system i.e. more economical than fuel. I am not sure from where the rubbish debate regarding perpetual motion machine has orignated from. I guess our scientists are to be squarely blamed for contesting the invention on basis of 2nd law. I am dead sure that the invention just claims that it is more energy efficient and hence much more viable than fuel. If thats true then there is every reason to rejoice. And rejoice after we have tested the invention in terms of efficiency, rather than talking jibberish about conservation laws.
Yours sincerely Dr Hossein Hamdani PhD Aerospace
I have read all the comments every body has a right to express his views.We don't have a practical scientific culture either in colleges or universities.He was not a scientist nor a regular engineer. But if he had tried to do some thing better he should be appreciated not discouraged by all the people. So that in future no body can even think for new things. It is the FAULT OF MEDIA that he had been exposed wrongly. He is an independent citizen of Pakistan he can express his point of view. Secondly it should be illustrated what he had made wrong and how he managed to run that car. What material he used or... So I request that if anyone have complete detail please write here. not theoretically but practically how he managed to run that car and if he used some chemical even then is it less costly than petrol or not.
I am an Indian Veterinarian, and I have read Physics just until my 12th class and that too from a Govt school where education is free, and I have read laws of Thermodynamics in good detail with some summaries on couple of thermodynamics research papers....I would have given a mighty denial to ds fraud discovery in d first say..which denies d very basic laws of thermodynamics (ABC of thermodynamics)...I wonder how pathetic iz it dt Pakistani scientists of such a high reputation were nt able to deny in d first instance....I must add here that standard of education in Pakistan and ur teachers, is a complete mess..... Sad & highly pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Khan Jr: Pakistan is 10 years behind India.LOL
@cynical
Please find another moniker (name) for you.Just using a 'c' instead of a 'C' is not enough. It will only create confusion which is both unnecessary and avoidable.
Although I do not agree with Dr Pervaiz HoodBhoy in many ways, but in this case he is perfectly right. Water fuel kit is a clear violation of second law of thermodynamics. I can't imagine a diploma engineer of Pakistan to invent such an absurd thing. Most of our Scientists are really fraud as Dr Pervaily has rightly pointed out. Talking of scientific truth in Pakistan, as Dr Atta has bluntly did, is useless.
Has the author personally investigated the car?
@Rehman Siddiqi
'You should go back to school and revise basic concepts of science. Your comment shows your level of intelligence!!!!!
I am sure you only want to help me and I have no problem in going back to school, if needed. However, It would have been more helpful if you cited the particular part (if memory serves me right there were two operating part in my comment) which you found vacuous.
Your guidance will be highly appreciated.
if dr qadir khan has visited the car and he has given the statement why you people are against his statement without any knowledte. first check the thing and then comment mr atta ur rehmand and hoody and all small scientists. give respect to attomic hero and his vision.thanks.
if dr hoody and attur rehman has seen the car
HOODBHOI has always been misleading (scientifically and politically). AGHA is not a Researchist; instead he is a technician. Dnt jst talk about LAWS of Physics. If the invention he claims is by chance "real and true" simply the rule of Physics may be changed. It is not a Rule claimed by GOD in Quraan or other scriptures. A man-made Law and while many LAWS have changed over the 20th century. Moreover there are many great inventors who were not SCIENTISTS and RESEARCHERS but were mere technicians. So let us first check it out whether it really works.
@tanzeel "earth being flat" was a hypothetical consideration not a proven fact... this so called free energy source developer has no empirical formula to support his claim.. am a engineering student and anyone with basic thermodynamic knowledge would negate his free energy theory..
Dear Dr Hood, This guy is not the first one who claims running a car on water. They claim changing the water into its elemental form by a battery and then running the car with oxygen and hydrogen combustion. The emission is not CO2 but H2O.
Dear Pakistani Citizens,
When the Opera scientists last year claimed the neutrino velocity faster than light and hence making the Theory of relativity invalid. The western world did not criticize them in a way people has been criticizing the water invention guy in this forum. Though Opera's scientists claim was much more bigger than this one.
The nation need to have much more patience. I am sure if a man named "Michael" or "Paul" would have claimed the same, Pakistani citizens would have criticized far less than this man.
Do Read the claims Opera scientists have been making between 2011-2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-lightneutrinoanomaly
Being a Class eight student, one fine morning i disclosed to my father ( an electrical engineer) that i have invented a car which does't require any fuel. The plan was to put two electrical generators on the front wheels and two electrical motors on the rear wheels. The generators would be electrically connected with motors at rear wheels. Once the car is pushed the generators would start producing electricity and would drive the motors and the process will go on continuously.... Father knowingly advised me to investigate the concept further prior to practical implementation... and that is how I learnt that energy being produced can never be more that the energy being fed....
Why not just present a well made clip where they are test driving this water driven car.
it might not be only water but it maybe very close to latest hybrid technology used in cars, so why to discourage agha waqar?????????
OK guys these are my comments on water car scandal.
Initially I was misguided by the fact that it was claimed that the car runs on water. Actually it does not. IT RUNS ON ACETYLENE.
This was not stated as it would have taken the surprise and innovation element out as extensive work has already been done on the use of this fuel. It is similar in use to Ethanol and any internal combustion engine with a slightly modified CNG kit can run on it.
Acetylene is a gas extensively used in welding process. It is produced by reacting Calcium Carbide with water. The outcome of this reaction is Acetylene and Calcium Hydroxide.
Non Technical Politicians and Media was shown the water being used as fuel , Calcium Carbide being a dense solid material was possibly hidden in the kit.
I am surprised and disappointed with the scientists who could not figure this one out.
Bingo! Pakistani innovation is created.
Dear Dr., we should encourage the inventor and let's see what is going to be revealed....2nd law of thermodynamics may be proved wrong by this.....new inventions should be judged scinetifically and practically rather than criticising.....i ask one question from Mr. H.Bhai...as a great scientist what has been delivered by you rather than criticising...there is no end to any principle of physics....so you should help him if any difficulty arises........regards
Giki professor dr Javed ahmed chatta,Dr samar mubarak,dr waqas naim all said in talaat hussain show that this man is fluke
@Mujtaba
why are you so sure hoodbhoy?
Because the Inventor-e-Azam has already accepted that he was adding Calcium Carbide to the water and was getting Acetylene out of it. No Electrolysis and No Hydrogen as fuel, as has been claimed by the Inventor so far.
Watch it all here.
http://www.brownpundits.com/2012/08/04/water-car-fever-begins-to-break-when-will-heads-roll/
Or you are the grandson of one of those who 100 years ago were screaming that an object heavier than the air cannot fly
This or that Humans can never land on the moon, or the World was 'created' 60000 years ago, are irrelevant here. The claim is that, "here is a kit that allows a car to be run for 40 kms on a litre of 'pure distilled water' and a standard car battery, with the water and the charge of the battery intact at the end of the run", let us concentrate on this claim alone.
ashamed to be Pakistani when our media and so called science leaders stoop to such depths of stupidity in supporting such a fraud - when will common sense prevail in Pakistan ?
Well,though being a medical student,yet I was astounded to know about the 'water kit'. I could barely grasp what he was saying.I mean though fuel cell constitutes of a bit similar fuel,oxygen and hydrogen..but I personally don't think it's a cup of tea of some diploma holder. That day he was on t.v and he couldn't even tell properly what do we get on electrolysis of water so the point is miracles don't just happen by themselves now-a-days.Anchor's that probably know nothing about the whole working of the 'water kit' have exaggerated his claim without trying to know the core mechanism. It ran the car and that was enough proof for them.Pity! But God knows what's reality. Lets just hope for the best for our country.
Whether is it fake or a fraud being a scientific approach being all the resources of research in pakistan along with such intellectauls, start research on it. Dont put watery statements. It is a matter that will bring out the Pakistan from the crises.
Is it a fraud played by Agha Watar? Or is he fraudulent? It could be of course a coincidence but there already is a US company selling a complete kit for USD 299. Agha Watar can not claim to be the owner of a patent, if he is not careful, he could even be sued for infringement of copyright laws by calling the product as his own. . link: Global Energy Devices
Dear Dawood Batozai! The Man did his Ph.D from MIT, Boston is not just a man like the people of Pakistan, what they heard just believe on that blindly. I heard this man in Forman Christian college Lahore. I believe in him that he spent his life in this field and knows better than those who just believe in a media person who conduct this type of shows just for the rating of their programme. It is pathetic that Pakistani nation is still living in dark and they are the blind followers of ignorance. Sorry for those who promised lot to end the energy crises but still the masses are suffering due to their bad governance.
@Syed Ali Raza: I am so relieved that finally someone mentioned the basis of this water car fraud so simply and in a way everyone can understand. I was utterly surprised that of all people in favor or against this fraud no one was able to articulate second law of thermodynamics so clearly as you did. Really good job. Hope people understand that by temporarily inputting more energy through the battery and then electrolysis they can run the water car but not perpetually.
Its very premature to conclude Professor. Have you really forgotten the scientists who rejected the later scientists, history is example of that. Let the time reveals the fact. Please avoid posting such texts that are one sided Professor.
A Q Khan - the man that sold Pakistani secrets for profit - what more could you expect from this "for sale" pakistani!
Ha HahHa - typical Pakistani response by the public and silly politicians that have lost all shame - it is only a matter of time before they blame the fraud on Mossad, CIA , RAW, KFC and McDonalds
I have been working on renewable energies for the last 5 years and i totally agree with Dr Atta Ur Rehman as far as my working and experimentation with hydrogen fuel cells is concerned in order to generate 23kwh of hydrogen energy we need to spend 100 kwh of energy any machine in the world cannot be 100% efficient on the other hand this guy is claiming the efficiency over 100% a 50ah car battery cannot provide energy more than 400 watts if discharged in 30 minutes how he can run 20kwh energy ie is 1000cc car and perpetual machines are not possible at all means its not possible that his system generates energy for electrolysis of water as well as to run itself and to drive the engine for use . I am afraid that this is going to be another bad example of pakistani Frauds in the World .
A slap on Hoodbhoy's face . Check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=287qd4uI7-E ....... A perpetual motion machine does exist.
Wait, did you just end your article on the importance of reason and science by criticizing Pakistan's ignorance of the guiding principles of an imaginary god?
Just bring them in front of scrutinizing team of leading scientists of Pakistan. It is a great discovery and worth lots of attention if it is not just fraud.
Agha Waqar for Prime Minister.
Hmmm. A battery electrolyzes the water, the resultant hydrogen runs the engine, the engine runs the car plus a generator which charges the battery. Quite an amazing perpetual motion machine, that. Waqar is a true scientific genius. Now someone will just have to take the minor trouble to reinvent the laws of thermodynamics and entropy. That, of course, would require a complete reinvention of the entire particle physics, quantum theory and cosmology. A trivial problem, which no doubt Waqar will be happy to help solve.
Look at this guys .. Still believe its a fraud ? Wake upp!!!! I wish the Pakistani guy patent it .. anyone want to say anything new ? Common Wake up . http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29899191/#.UB1RC7Qe7ng
Cant blv it . Have some faith in PAKISTAN!!!
@Ali S: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29899191/#.UB1RC7Qe7ng
@ASAD CHANGEZI:
Time has already decided. The water car fraud dates back to the 1970s.
It is an electric car, powered by a fuel cell, which makes it's own hydrogen onboard the car from a tank of water and battery powered electrodes in the tank that split oxygen and hydrogen out of the water.
But this is just turning electrical energy in the battery, into chemical energy (hydrogen) and then back into electrical energy using the fuel cell. There is an unnecessary conversion step that loses a lot of energy and is there simply to confuse people into thinking it is something new and revolutionary.
As a car, it is useless and will travel only a few miles on one battery charge. It would be better to simply get rid of the water and fuel cell, and use the battery to power the motor directly.
@Abdul:
But the process used to split the oxygen and hydrogen out of water is electrolysis, which takes energy.
If it were possible to perform electrolysis using less energy than you get from re-combining the oxygen and hydrogen, since the "exhaust" is water, you could just pipe the exhaust back into the fuel tank and have a perpetual motion machine.
@Ali S:
The energy to split the oxygen and hydrogen comes from a battery. So ultimately it's just a, unusually inefficient battery powered car.
@CRISIS
@Prof.Hoodbhoy: can u create something out of nothing ? Well God did that some 6,000 years ago.
Really??
I thought 6000 years ago everything WAS already in existence.
At least Dinosaurs were roaming around about 230 MILLION years ago.
Are you sure God said 6000 years?
@ali:
Because the water powered car has been "invented" many times before, as an investment scam. When you understand how it "works", you know there's no possibility of it being real.
It is a car with a battery that performs electrolysis, to split oxygen and hydrogen out of water, and the hydrogen is then fed into a fuel cell, which generates electricity to power a motor.
Do you see what's wrong with that? There is a needless and wasteful step. The car is not actually water powered, it is battery powered, but the electricity from the battery is converted into chemical energy and then back to electrical energy.
It is astonishingly inefficient and will work for only a few miles on one charge if that, long enough to fool an investor.
@Tanzeel:
Please read this: http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Just imagine! If water had been used as fuel, world we are living in, would have been a different place altogether. As Oceans are full of water, so the source of energy would have been almost infinite.
In case of Waqar the Kit man, and hero of the land for almost two weeks: a proverb goes this way, 'A lie is halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on'.
@Cynical: You should go back to school and revise basic concepts of science. Your comment shows your level of intelligence!!!!!
Being engineer any experiment should be published (e,g. patent) for approval by international community.
'Earth is flat' was never a law. It was a theory, theories change over time. Laws of nature don't.
@Umar Riaz: Well said!!!
@Tanzeel: There is a difference between theory and law. Laws of physics are facts, you may have your opinion but not your own facts!!!!
I do not understand why scientists are opposed to their very very basic idea, hypothesis to theory cycle. What Mr. Hoodbhoy commented on is scientifically correct from one law of science, what about the process of Hypothesis. The water kit idea is sound and I dare say proven, but if this idea is converted into something concrete, imagine who will be hit hard. The Oil Companies, multi Zillion dollar industry and what they had and will not spend to curb these ideas. We have seens sabotages into other FUEL SOURCES by them and this is the most cheapest and abundant resource. I do not dare to contradict with Mr.Hoodbhoy's knowledge, but to his decision to outward reject the idea. I imagine how he would treat his students with ideas.
Readers, please investigate on Liquid Hydrogen deposits under sea along the coastline of UK and Canada.
@Prof.Hoodbhoy: can u create something out of nothing ?
Well God did that some 6,000 years ago.
@ayesha_khan: Momentum is the force depends on mass as p=mv. More the mass of water falling, more will be the force on turbine and more will be the magnitude of electricity generated in a dam. You better create a dam like situation in a car of a horrible volume than to question second law of thermodynamics.
Thanks Thanks Pervez Saheb for such a nice articles. I personally feel that this is our (Physicists) responsibility to come forward to tell the people when such non-sense things being projected on the national TV. The most painful thing to me was when Dr. A.Q. Khan and Dr. Samar Mubarakmand were supporting this complete non-sense. In fact they were showing their lack of basic physics knowledge and they are so-called national heroes and the ONLY scientists of the country (as is public perception). But they captured the money given by the government for science and technology for decays and they have never tried to put that money in public sector universities and research institutes. To me these sort of manager type scientists are the enemy of science and education in our country.
By the way one thing to be corrected by every one is that the water car inventor Aga Waqar is not even an engineer, he is a diploma holder and claiming himself as a mechanical engineer. This is told to me by one of his neighbor in Khairpur.
@Baber Saeed: The people here cannot be stupfied by you and the visual hallucination from anywhere related to pseudoscience. Science's fundamental laws are governing all the human inventions, except God, and the laws are very much theoratical physics.
if it has hydrogen fuel cell then it will work, but for that you need energy to extract hydrogen from water.
Pakistani media is not only making fun of Pakistan but also embarrassing Pakistani's all over the world.
Atleast the poor guy is thinking.. If you dont agree thats different but atleast dont discredit him totally...
It is true you can use Water to run an Internal Cumbustion Engine either Petrol Engine or Diesel Engines but not on water alone.
This is how it works: Water is a Molecule consisting of one atom of Oxygen connected with two atoms of Hydrogen. H2O When you pass electric current, the process is called Electrolysis, the water molecule is broken into Oxygen and Hydrogen gases and this Hydrogen gas is passed into the carburetor of the car where is combines with the petrol and powers the engine. Thus the feul efficiency is increased, you get more mileage per litre and less carbon emmission.
In a car the kit is a glass Jar with electrodes connected to the car battery and an outlet for the gases, connected through a pipe to the carburetor. The drawback is the load on the battery. What you save in petrol cost, you spend on replacing the battery. Running a car with Internal Combustion Engine on water alone is not feasible.
"At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute"
This is so rude statement from an MIT scholar. Writer should better criticize on the water invention rather an institute name or an individual abilities.
Remember that many great inventors of the world were never been to universities.
I know MIT culture very well. If the writer would have made the above statement in his article at MIT, they would have him sued for humiliating an institute. But since the writer is criticizing on a third world country, he knows the third world fellows will never mind it.
I quote the writer's word:
"At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute"
This is so rude from the writer. Many great inventors of the world have never been trained in top universities.
The criticize on water invention is okay, however, the writer's above statement challenges an individual's talent and humiliate an institution.
World expect a much more polite and respectful criticize from an MIT scholar.
By reading the comments I think now it is very clear that second law of thermdynamics is man made law unlike blasphemy law which is divine. So second law of thermodynamics can be broken and water kit can indeed run a car without any additinal fuel.
let me teach u a "law of sensibility" before the "2nd law of thermodynamics" "first prove it wrong, then speak about its wrongness'
@Tanzeel, "There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat’." There was no such law. That the earth is round has been known from pretty early times. The Greeks measured the circumference of the earth from the library in Alexandria.
water can be broken through electrolysis into carbon and oxygen my dear friends and in this situation the electricity from the generator is doing it.. so simple.. nice job scientist.. the "Real" scientist are there to just stay in there box of laws... thats good for them, u should atleast encourage it and try to confront with him instead of talking rubbish that nothing is possible..
Being MS in Mechanical Eng i dont believe in so called water kit what really amzaed me response of Dr Qadir & Samar (now i have doubt in his ability of so claim coal to electricity project as he blindly accept this water kit ) & not surprised with response of Sindhis Politician coz u can expect this from these Jahill & biased leaders
anyway to ciut it short simple solution is to test the car with reknowned laboratory & patenet his invention get the name in record book y he is afraid of testing it at some level what i see its a fraud to get some money & budget in the name of Water kit project after election Waqar Water kit will vanish & living in US with his invention
SAAEN TOO SAEEEN SAEEN KI GARRRI BHI SAEEEN
the thing is you cannot say that second law of thermodynamics is right because first it was claimed that earth is flat now that idea is totally change if you are claiming that this theory will not work then are you people blind he is showing it live every one from scientifc to engineering community has wathced it and they havent found any thing what attaur rehman gave pakistan despite putting billions of tax payers ruppes on hec just sending the specific groups abroad he is the real frauder agha waqar has invented his kit on his own financial resources not on any other
Being a student of science i will only say this "Scientific laws can't be true for ever. As science is not divine. If he claims to use hydrogen gas. some what extracted.... from H20 then whats problem with it......."
If you go back and look through history this is not the first time that someone has claimed to be able to power an internal combustion engine from water alone. Nikola Tesla had taken a keen interest in it as well back in the early 1900's until he was blackballed. More recently we have had Stanley Meyers in the 1980's who died mysteriously and there is Paul Pantone, who came with the same claims in 2005/06. He was later admitted to a mental institute. Both Stan Meyers and Paul Pantone got media coverage in the states and subsequently started working on different projects with the government...and were soon after blackballed. I leave to you to draw your own conclusion.
well as they say he is not the first person to be claiming of using water as a fuel , what we must think is that if anyone accomplishes this feat then the international mafia would not let him get away with it so we must not speak before we see it performed
when will heads roll? http://www.brownpundits.com/2012/08/04/water-car-fever-begins-to-break-when-will-heads-roll/
@FrAud: L O L that was a great laugh , i hope you were joking one never knows with the type of things people are ready to believe these days.
I belive things should be handle very carefuly and encorage the person even he have some mistakes in his invention. Moraly some of so called big doctor scientists are dis-respectful and have no idea how a teacher behave to encorage his student and if there is some issue should guide him in postive way. This all happening was dealed with very much carelessness from Big empty mind politicians and scientist those only who discurage this new student of science. Make this as first step to encorage all young students to come into the field of science and make inventions for progress of there nation and over come the energy crisis. This poor guy never did any crim , if there is flaws in his experiment we need to sit together and make it correct and take opportunity to take things into right direction.
I hope we all agree, and dont listen to the people who are working for other nations to dicorage our Pakisnati young students......Be respectful and encoraging
@Tanzeel: A law is something observed to be true in all circumstances. There never was a flat earth "law" - it was only ever an assumption that could be easily disproved by observing ships disappear over the horizon and then return. In science, a law is not an assumption or belief; a theory is not an unsubstantiated hunch.
@Shoaib Shakir
@Haris
Please read this.
When Waqar was asked by The Express Tribune why he did not show up at NUST on Thursday, he said that the plan had changed. “The technical examination has now been deferred for an unidentified period of time and will not happen soon,” he said. When inquired to explain the reason for the deferral, Waqar simply hung up the phone.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/417246/water-world-dr-attaur-rehman-senses-a-scam-behind-man-touting-water-kit/
The Inventor has run away from the first Technical Evaluation. Time to close this chapter.
Thomas Edison, the greatest of all time inventors, tried almost 300 times to invent a bulb. I repeat 300 times. What if he (Agha Waqar) failed this time or may be a number of times ahead. It is media that boosted the story and speculated it. You have done a wonderful job. BTW it is easy to be critical then be correct. Keep trying and one day the aforesaid commenter s/writer/anchors will pay tribute to you. Besides, the laws of Physics are not Heavenly verses, these can be verified/rectified or even nullified with the passage of time. Be Optimistic. Plz
How on earth did Pakistan ever build a reactor or bomb with scientists like the ones that fell for this? Seriously! No wonder Pakistan is heading backwards. Kudos for the scientist who rejected and no doubt laughed at the idea and those that believed it. If it was possible to do as claimed to run a car purely on water with a simple kit then I'm sure it would have been done by now - perhaps the so called 'pure' water required is mostly ethanol.
Everything aside, how can one believe that the car ran solely on the water kit during the demo and not on gasoline or CNG? The simplest test to prove or disprove this claim is to have the water kit power up an engine outside a vehicle (mounted on a test bench) with no other connected fuel feed. If it can run an engine in a car, it can run an engine out of it too. If Mr. Agha can prove that, he has achieved a scientific miracle and would deserve the accolades of the whole world (minus of course the oil lobby).
THE Second LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS make by a human it can be wrong. Every thing is possible. A muslim Scientist in 5th century give the true shape of earth but Non Muslims not believe about another 1000 years but at last they belive in 17th century. Now another muslim change the law and prove to the world. Try to make it wrong. last only say truth is always truth.
I am wondering how Mr. Mubarakmand gave such a statement. How can then we believe on his other mega projects that he professes.
i think most appropriate way to end all this mess it the solution that Dr. Atta ur Rehman suggested in Hamid Mir prog. Make a team of engineers who are proficient in fuel cells and let them investigate and find what is all the water kit frenzy about. Before this Agha guy runs to Singapore.
It is impossible to make a propotional motion machine. But it can make be possible.Water is composition of hydrogen and oxygen. Ist time you have to charge battery.Once it decompose in to two gases i.e hydrogen and oxygen it generate energy to run a car at the same time it charge the battery according to the requirement of decomposition of water. once the circle is start it can run the car.if some method is done like this way that during consumption oxygen again join hydrogen to make water then perputional machine is possible.
It is interesting to read some comments where in spite of considering the laws of physics, they are rather striking back in such manners, as if it was a wrestling competition between 'Science vs Sindh ka Beta',.....come on folk, don't be silly to such level.
Dear all, I think we should thank Agha for this marvellous invention. When we used to study in our madarassa, we were told that water has the max energy and now we have someone who is harnessing this energy and driving cars. Inshallah, very soon we should be driving tanks on water and after that liberating kashmir. We will give our mujahids water bombs which will have so much energy that the Indians will have to run when they see our holy warriors armed only with water bottles and imagine if our army comes loaded with i litre water bottles, kashmir shall become ours and so will all the opressed kashmiri women be and then we will set sail on our water bottles to invade the US of A. Very soon we will be the only super power. So now atleast China should give us some dollars and match the US of A or we can get very angry and as you all know an angry mujahid with a water bottle can be very dangerous caricature. So all you people please heed the coming wrath of allah which will be delivered courtesy us (The pakistanis mujahid warrior) the pure followers.. There fore start donating generously if you want to stay in our good books.....
Our hero is Mirza Waqar not Dr. Salam who took Nobel prize. Another conspiracy to defame our nation?
It can be investigated in detail by a panel of scientist to establish an authentic announcement over this issue, rather than interpreting individually , If it is true then it must be awarded great respect , and a speedy campaign should be launched to overcome energy crises through this invention.
if It is not possible to get energy from water..then what is this?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBm8ogwnpG0 ..check out this link guys..
Respected Pervez Hoodbhoy i will simply say that i believe in all scientific knowledge and theories but i also believe in that all these theories are not perfect and are changed with time as new research generate new theories so being a scientist we should believe in............? as for as this water kit concerned i haven't visited myself so i could not make any decision but i suggest you and all readers to visit personally and then make a decision then it would be reasonable and believable thing.................?
@All The Believers of the Invention
'Engineer' Agha Waqar was invited to the NUST for a scientific/ technical evaluation of his Water Car on Thursday. The inventor failed to show up. What does this tell you?
When Waqar was asked by The Express Tribune why he did not show up at NUST on Thursday, he said that the plan had changed. “The technical examination has now been deferred for an unidentified period of time and will not happen soon,” he said. When inquired to explain the reason for the deferral, Waqar simply hung up the phone.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/417246/water-world-dr-attaur-rehman-senses-a-scam-behind-man-touting-water-kit/
Could it be a neatly orchestrated million dollar scam?
@Tanzeel: jan tanzeel, it is like what you say but in a rather different way. Thinking that this waterkit will work is like saying the Earth is flat even though we know for sure that it is round.
Let's see it actually tested. I had heard rumours about scientists up north vanishing who had been working dilligently on making some sort of engine run on anything from water to momentum. And the rumours blamed American interference, as usual. But let's hope they're on to something? I've spoken to scientists whose entire homes were run on using recycling of some form or the other. We may be pleasantly surprised. We may be unpleasantly surprised that all this hubbub has called our attention away from more pressing matters that are undergoing change...
I cant understand why Pakistani people start leg pulling when someone starts to do something better...All the laws are made my man and and they can be proved wrong by man,Just like the shape of Earth.
may be this would help us to understand a little bit more on Water Fueled cars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car
to all the jokers who are criticizing Mr.Hoodbhoy- in India nobody has guts to speak to a person of eminence like Mr.Parvez Hoodbhoy. Let alone slander him. I can only see a bleak future for people here.
Are people in Pakistan so naive that without checking it out, they just jump the band wagon?
"@HamidMirGEO: @2011Simple1 Agha Waqar asked his lawyer to serve legal notice to Pervez Hoodbhoy.Let the court decide who is fraud?"
The first day I heard it, I thought only hydrolysis of WATER with the help of a BATTERY cannot produce enough energy because it is not a continuous process like FISSION......there must be a third thing which is adding energy in it, for this development to be true...if there is no third thing this is simply crap....i still think this person could have developed something whatever trivial or costly it is, but not without the help of a third or 3rd plus 4th thing..... Theme: only hydrolysis of water with the help of battery cannot produce enough energy to run a car OR there must be a third or fourth thing involved to make this thing happen
this is another ridiculous example of uneducated media, politicians and public. Even if you dont have some basic scientific understanding, you can judge the real truth from what he says, listen to him, he has only 100 or 150 rupees in his pocket, he rented the car and when asked how much you spent on this project, his answers was 1 to 1.5 crores and all that money he borrowed, who gave him this money to invest on water kit??? a person who doesnt have even 500 rupees in his pocket in islamabad, how he got all this loan, then with water kit alone, all energy problem of pakistan will be solved, from gas load shedding to electric load shedding. come on Pakistani people grow up now, stop listening the news decorated with songs!!!!
Please check video on tube which was posted few years ago. The car was run by water. The Agha Waqar, however, is fraud. @Ali:
@Mujahid Masood: you people need to do your research before getting all emotional, the only thing Pakistanis are capable of. Yes pervaiz hoodhbhoy has taught in Pakistan. he taught for a great couple of years in Quaid-e-Azam university in Islamabad and is currently teaching in LUMS.
A Simple question to all. Ask him the details about his experiment and lets not conclude too early. I know every body knows about electrolysis, but what if he is not doing electrolysis. PLUS How about asking him to demo for this car for about an hour without fossil fuel. If he cant give the demo, there must be something wrong going on.
@Tanzeel: Please open your eyes to the real world. Anything that could have been discovered without a multi-billion dollar lab has already been discovered. So, don't compare 16th century discoveries with modern-day science. Secondly, please go through the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car for greater clarity
@Saad Afzal: let me clear it out for you.... When electrolysis is done we get H and O.. when we burn hydrogen we get what we had in the first place..water and energy. In an ideal case the energy provided to break the water in H and O is the same as the energy released when we will burn the hydrogen. First law of thermodynamics states that energy can not be created or destroyed is merely changes from one form to another. so where did the energy to start the car come from? nowhere. since the energy we got from burning the hydrogen is same that we ourselves invested in breaking the water molecule. Second law says that not all the energy invested will be used up as the entropy of the system will continue to increase. so this explains that we can not have an ideal case. so if the energy gained from burning the hydrogen is even less than the invested energy.. what in God's name is driving the car?????/
First of all, All I want to know is what is the problem you guys are looking at right now. Somewhere like 7-8 months ago, I read a whole article about Hydrogen Powered car...!! I recherched about it and found it legal in the eyes of Physics. Today this water car, has almost the same phenomena the water is H2 O ( H two O ) Using electrolysis distilled water can be changed to Hydrogen and Oxygen. The Hydrogen is used as fuel as we all know that hydrogen consist of a lot of power in it. Now the engine is running onto the hydrogen whereas the Oxygen enters the environment and makes the environment better and clean. Since that "Hamid Mir" show I've started research over it and talked to many Physicians about it, everyone has to say that it is truly possible. Only people having the monopoly of Petrol Pumps and CNG stations (we all know who I'm pointing too) will have problems regarding this, just because there business will be down, for the sake of their personal interests they don't want such a man to come up to the top.
Let see and we have to give opportunity to aga Waqar. People have criticise on ther kohl project too.
If he get failed then it was a failure but why shall we call him fraud?
@Farhan: 2+2=6 does not need any investigation. It is as simple as that. The joules of energy in 1 liter of water cannot drive a car for even a minute.
Sad to see ppl even remotely considering the possibility of breaking a Law of Thermodynamics
Actually they dont realize how big of a deal it really is If for example someone manages to practically disprove a Law of Thermodynamics that guy can make Trillions of Dollars along with having his name written above each and every scientist in history
The world today will simply change if a machine can be made that defies the basic Laws of Physics
PS: for the genius who gave the example of Earth being Flat That my friend was never a Law just a speculation
Thank you Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy for wasting your time on such a scam but the real shame for us is that people of our nation still believe in magic!!!
I m so surprised by seeing every next guy, who reads an article favoring the inventor, putting comments in favour of "Water-KiT inventor" . Now what I m seeing is that every comment are going against the inventor....!!!!
cant v see this issue from nuclear point of view , if it is real
Oh please come on...come to the real problems....Engineer Agha made this point very clear that what the big scientists state of mind...I dont know what is the level our engineering council big guns have....worried for engineering science fate and level of professors in pakistan who accepts without careful observations....
first of all the engine should be observed cos the observation comes first in any scientific research . I dont know about the thermodynamic side of this issue but if v see toward this issue with the nuclear physics point of view so what do u guys think .
Actually most of the seniors get jealous when someone else receives more attention from the nation and they get so selfish that even national interests seem to them like nonsense. Same is the case with the writer. Getting a piece of paper- the degree, from a "world-class" university does not make one genius. Intelligence is nurtured within your aims not your degree.
Hood boy is a jealous boy. Grow up sir.
Dr. AQ khan sahib himself accepted. Please believe in Pakistan & Pakistanis...
When I was a kid I asked my father why can't we use hydrogen to get energy as we can get it easily through electrolysis of water. He told me that when he was a kid he asked the same question from his teacher who told him, "other means of energy or cheaper" and it was enough to satisfy the tiny scientist inside me :)
I dont believe in this article. "Seeing is Beleiving", can the writer challenge this, no. Let this guy work on his project for alternative energies and if succeeded it would be a big blessing for whole world.
I hate those professors who dont have market knowledge and upgraded skills and always kill the brilliant ideas and always are bookish.
The whole Universe is full or mysteries and we might not know what is next. I stronglly recommend Governament to provide funds for this project.
MIT = Machinegun Institute of Technology, one of the EX MIT was my professor in my undergrad, I have high respect for him as a person but have some serious reservation about the knowledge of MIT people..
It would have been better Dr. Hoodbhoy that if your tone would have been more technical than plain simple argument that he is wrong. I'm sure Agha Waqar's kit and whole exercise is not efficent and not plausible. Explain us like a teacher how and where he is wrong. You know he is wrong but majority of us don't.
Dr.Hoodbhouy seems to trust his instinct, without verifying whether the idea proposed is actually true. Science is all about change, the author seems to have ignored the assumptions of the second law of thermodynamics, which are essential for its validity. An isolated system does not exist in the physical world, therefore the second law can only be used as an approximation to the real-world situations, we do not know what exactly happens when an isolated system is reached. I do not say that the water car idea is correct but neither do i lash out at it without have verified the information. The most dangerous mind is a closed mind, not ready to accept change, and nothing is permanent except change.
There was also a "Great" scientist of Pakistan in Zia's regime who presented a golden idea of using Genies as alternate energy source in an international scientific conference in Islamabad. His name was, if i am not mistaken, Dr Bashir uddin Mehmood. And he was head of Pakistan's Atomic energy commission at that time. Dr A Q khan and Dr Samar Mubarak represent the same trend of Pakistani(Muslim) Science. O god( if you exist) do help this nation.
I am a common man and don't know the science theory but want to raise question that Aga Waqar claimed and demonstrated it, now Instead of writing the articles and making comments, why can’t our scientist and engineers expose the fraud in practically, as enventor is demonstrating it openly so all those are in openion that it is fraud then they needs to expose it on the media and let people know that how he is doing fraud and if they are not able to prove it fraud then they needs to support him. How can people believe the theory when they see that car is running on the Islamabad roads and witnessed by professors and engineers? I think it is unfair that without proving him wroing we accuse without reason.
Being a research student I know that to accept/reject any claim it is important to evaluate sufficient evidence. It has saddened me that our academic and scientific depth is so shallow that such claim has taken so long to settle. As far as politicians and anchors are concerned they have responded to their optimum intellectual capacity we cannot expect much from them.
well, though i m also suspecious about this invention, but as dr hood bhoy suggested to run generator on that kit, he will be exposed, but dear sir he has also run generator on that kit infront of media. i saw personally on ktn news, and anchor was ma friend, who witnessed it. so what now? could it be real?
Hood bhai is n't digesting the invention. He must be given chance and at time he has proved it.
i dnt think so i was fake because he gave challenge openly i think its a trap of petroleum mafia to pull attention on him and talent is always goft gifted and not dependent to learm
Thank you sir for exposing this person's "invention". It seemed like one of those funny messages when i read the forward messages and news covering this radical innovation. I being an engineer student LUMS university totally agree with whatever you have written, As a matter of fact I thought of this as my Senior Project 3 years ago. But obviously after doing research, I found that this doesn't make any sense when you calculate the energies involved in the process. This process starts with electrical energy which is used to separate water. So, according to my understanding, i think its more feasible/efficient to run cars on an electric motor attached to batteries then going through this whole process. Thank you once again
Please Sir you are a technical person and you can write a technical denunciation of this. Here is a slightly technical overview of it from afar :
http://publicaccessarticles.blogspot.com/2012/08/recently-there-was-news-of-engineer.html
@ Sabih Zafar Ullah The joke became even bigger when he said that he has invented a kit for normal cars. The scam could have fooled me if he had said that he had invented a machine that runs on water.
To all above who are so happy to see Parvez Hoodbhoy rejecting Agha's water kit on the basis of second law of thermodynamics. In simple words, 2nd law of thermodynamics can be stated as: "The efficiency of a heat engine is always less than 100%". Which means that if we give some amount of energy to any heat engine, the output of engine will always be less than the energy provided.
Now, is Agha claiming to make the heat (car) engine 100% efficient? no, he is not claiming to alter anything in heat engine but he is just changing the fuel intake of heat engine from (CNG which is 96% Methane gas) to H-O-H gas which is more combustible and produces more energy than one unit of CNG. Parvez Hoodbhoy is a scientist and he should have written something scientific not political. He is just criticizing other scientists, media and politicians in this article. If you remove the name of author if will be difficult to judge if the writer was a scientist or journalist without science knowledge.
Thats so embarssing.Shame on our media.I dont think so there is any thing exist that challenge the science Laws.Except Allah Miracle.
If life runs with water,Why can't a car?....
The only way to run a vehicle directly using water is by replacing Hydrocarbon fuel engine by steam engine. These vehicles were predecessors to petroleum based vehicles during the early 1900's.
Other possible means is by electrolysis of water. Hydrogen can be separated from from water and then used in a fuel cell to produce electricity. This electricity can then be used to run electric drive train. Electrolysis to produce hydrogen is an inefficient process as compared to reforming from Methane or Natural Gas. Normally it is produced using Natural Gas.
Fuel Cell vehicles are available today in small numbers. Mercedes Benz has done some pioneering work in this area.
Running a four stroke petrol engine on water using a kit is really a funny idea.
What would happen with Pak nation??? They are not willing to take this thing as fraud.That's why we have owned such leaders who have ruined the lives of people even in today's modern age.
We used to play in our childhood with a boat which was filled with water and then its tank was heated up with candle or other source. Here again something similar is expected to work. Then in old times railway engines were run on steam. why not a car.
I disagree with Dr. Hoodbhoy article, reason is being that physic laws are not absoult. Everthing in the universe is relative and mass can be converted into energy and viceversa. Give him achance and let a penal of experts should go through the autopsy of this invention and let the report come. Govt can ask international expert opnion of those who are already working on hydrogen cell for cars. come on doc don't underestimated the telant. regards \
1-Remove the battery and then start by pushing the car from behind 2-Then see how much it travels?????
Perhaps, the car runs from the precharged battery charged from an outer source; it starts the car, and keep running the process. Laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy remains fully intact. Do have a complete energy and material balance and one can find the results.
Claims are not correct but the research perhaps may provide an alternate to save atleast some of the fuel, foreign exchange and the environment from pollution
For God's sake isn't this a little too easy? Speaking strictly logically, if it were that simple wouldn't this technology be all around? People have tried to make the same thing over and over and that too since the 1980's. If it were that simple to defy the second law of thermodynamics, it wouldn't be just a simple hydrogen fuel cell doing that, it would be a perpetual motion machine defying it and even elementary school students know that this has been impossible since I don't know how far back. It's a simple hydrogen fuel cell seperating hydrogen using electrolysis. I mean this is elementary chemistry but this is a hydrogen bomb just made mobile. The people have become so biased that knowing fully well that this is absurd, they are ignorant and are against these ministers. It's true that most ministers haven't all been good but Dr. Ata-Ur-Rehman is right this time around. Time should be given to this Engineer to prove his theory but it'll probably be hoax. And the country should stop being so biased and try doing something on their own rather than relying on such devices and enjoying when the one guy who is right is being sued. Yes we all are suffering but that gives us all the more reasons to work hard and not rely on something which hasn't even beeen justified yet.
As a medical student, an engineering problem is what I can't fully understand. What Agha Waqar claimed to be done, I don't know a fraud or an invention or something, 2nd law of thermodynamics may be contradicted but to my knowledge energy can be changed from one to other form, and they claimed that they use Hydrogen gas as a fuel taken from water through a process of electrolysis. Alternate fuel sources can be used. Rest is unknown to me, as I'm not a scientist... :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StanleyMeyer'swaterfuelcell check out this as well guys.....
i m very much shocked on the response of peoples those blindly believes on einstein theory of relativity E=mc2 i have a question my brother kindly let me know that why Einstein used c2 here just to satisfy unit of E(energy) because its impossible to generate E without c2 but my question is that when an object converted to energy at reaching just c how can you out it as c2 which is far more larger value than the earlier one can any body let me now about this ??????
Without going into the utterly sophomoric handling of the matter by scientists and media guys,some clarifications need to be brought out. The HHO or Browns Gas kits that are available in some countries are 'mileage booster' devices that help diesel or petrol fuels perform better,but at all times are only a mixture or blend. Agha Waqar is claiming that there is no mixture of hydrocarbons,only water as the primary fuel.However I have read somewhere that Agha sb has also admitted to the use of a 'secret ingredient' which helps his process. If such a claim cannot be disproved in actual tests by our scientists,rather than through academic arguments anchored on certain Laws that came into being many decades ago,then being in the age of jahilliya is perfectly justified.
When Ph.D degrees can be obtained through Plagiarism! Where an honorable Minister can proclaim " Digri Digri haey - Assli ho ya Jaali !" Where students taking exams can beat up the invigilator for catching them cheating! Where a Chief Justice can influence the grading of his daughter! AND one can go on and on................................... What is wrong with believing an engine can run on water??????????????????
Calm down guys its just a law :p can be amended by 2/3rd majority vote in Parliament :P
Dr Parvez Hood Bhai is totally wrong, we believe sometimes theory can be change according to times when an invention makes it possible and theory doesnt.like scientist after some years changes their theories about the creation of universe when they reach to some proof, and science is not the completed by its works so how can some one say science past theory is now 100 percent correct ,no ny inmprovement needed,not, but science always provide the way with expriments for their proof ,so its legal to be make it right further when times shows the path.. i think doctors mind is only the invention can be made by english mans to prove right or wrong otherwise all others are not acceptable..
I am happy that a Pakistani engineer has invented a car that runs on water instead of gasoline. That means India which has occupied Kashmir and controls your jugular vein will control your economy as they have total control of your waters. Instead being beholden to Saudi Arabia for your oil, now you will be beholden to India, which may not be bad at all!
@Naveed: Nuclear reactions are different!!! You cannot compare it with whats going on here. In nuclear reactions the energy comes from the lost mass! The mass doesn't exist anymore but its converted to energy. Here the mass is the same at all times. Burning the hydrogen would yield the same amount of water and thats simple chemistry. So you could use the same water again therefore the water would never deplete right? In nuclear reactions mass is lost. Very little but still is. Here no mass is lost. So where is the source? Its the battery because with its energy you are splitting water, and batteries dont last long.
i know this experiment would seem like a fraud... but let see n wait for a comletely investigation of this water kit.. i heard from every one who knows something about physics they were just saying its a fraud and its apposes physics laws. but something could b possible from experiments. so let see n wait for it.
The idea of Agha waqar supported by renowned scientists not less than A Q khan and Samar Mubarak Mund, I am skeptical about the nuclear technology they claimed to have developed. This is really one of the a series of failures they we are facing on many fronts that we have experienced in the past.
Huge respect for this man! Was waiting for his comment on this magic phyics matter. Perpetual motion machine cannot exist. Because water electrolyzed and then burned will give you water back. In affect the one litre of water will never deplete if effectively used. So where is the energy source? Its the battery! And of course the battery will deplete. Some water kit that is. LOL. And that battery isn't enough to yield the necessary hydrogen, at least not at the required rate. You'll have to change the battery at some point, quite sooner and more will be required. A good way to use this idea(which is not new to the scientific world and not an invention of Mister Agha) is to use solar panels to give the required current for the electrolysis. That way you could use such a mechanism without defying the laws of physics and using your already purchased cars without any major conversion.
I agreed with Dr Hoodbhai's concerns because this is science, not poetry or song etc, and science always needs solid arguements based on logic. We should not consider oppsition of water-kit as big sin because it is anyone right to ask scientific explanations from inventor, so anyone that type of explanations should not be given the color of caste and creed. so dr hoodbhai and atta-ur-rahman etc have full right to object on agha waqar's inventions and its agha waqar's duty to satify them and whole world, if he is right in his claim. So there is no any sign of provincial,linguistic and racial discrimination.
Gone though the basic knowledge of science during my studies in FSC and BSc, it really shocked me to see scientists of this country applauding the new invention by Agha Waqar and declaring it a possibility. But in spite of all this I liked the topic come under discussion and people in talk shows here in this part of the world are now discussing ideas and science which is positive side of all this episode. Listening to absurd things during the talk shows in past few years had made the people got fed up. So end result of this was good, which may be appreciated.
Khan Zada Wazir Abbottabad
One question.
Does Dr. A Q Khan even has a degree certificate?
Electrolysis require 237.13KJ/mole * 500 = 118MJ/kg of energy. Heating value of hydrogen upon combustion is 141.86 MJ/kg; since brake thermal efficiency of engine is usually around 0.3 hence available energy is 141.86 * 0.3 = 42.56 MJ/kg while electrolysis requirement is 118MJ/kg
Electrolysis require 237.13KJ/mole * 500 = 118MJ/kg and heating value of hydrogen upon combustion is 141.86 MJ/kg; since brake thermal efficiency of engine is usually around 0.3 hence available energy is 141.86 MJ/kg*0.3 = 42.56MJ/kg while electrolysis requirement is 118MJ/kg.
@Aviar: yes, it is quite distressing to hear such ignorant comments from Dr. A.Q. yet we have to give credit to the great illusionist instead of blaming Dr A.Q. i guess he is old now..
water kit is possible...already tested in past in australia and japan..It basically utilizes technique from Quantum Physics.. No laws are broken, only through resonance frequency with random pulses, electrolysis process could be done in a better way and if titanium electrodes are used efficiency of breaking bonding and producing HHO is boost... I dont know y our scientist negating the idea, the technology which was already tested in past... By the way theory of this process is already patented...
Irrespective of the point whether the claim is right or wrong, is this a good idea to use water as fuel in a country where people do not get enough, clean drinking water? Secondly the inventor said that only distilled water can be used and for that distillation units will be required if the inventor goes for a commercial set up. Will he not need electricity for running those distillation units? Wow we have enough electricity in our country. Politicians support is justified as we know that water tax also needs to be revised (if there can be any created reason to increase tax on water then why not go for it....right?). Now the remaining ones are scientists.....can some one tell me how many out of those all contacted scientists are engineers? I know there was one from biological sciences.
It is really sad that a person with no repute and no proper engineering evidence or theory comes on Hamid Mir program and start to question Dr. Atta ur Rehman integrity and what he has invented in his life. And you could see in a window that Hamid was smiling. As a nation we have gone to absolute depth of darkness and specific sections of media are taking their ratings from it. Even if you disagree with anything that that Dr. Atta had done, still it was disgraceful and I think Atta ur Rehman should not have sit in program and hardly got chance to put his point (although Hamid controlled program to his advantage).
One astonishing thing that three established scientists could not agree on basic physics laws (seems that physics laws needs interpretation by Supreme Court as well). It goes to show how things work to favor personal interests in Pakistan.
@Faisal Hanif
2-Being a Muslim we know that this universe and all its energies weren’t there initially but later produced by ALLAH. It simply means mass and energy can be produced which say this law of physics is wrong.
Looks like your grasp of Islam is as tenuous as that of Physics. Allah SWT of course is the creator of all matter and energy. From this are you trying to prove that matter and energy can be CREATED by humans too?
Be clear about your theology if not Physics.
Hoodboy went to MIT. man respects..
The achievement of the 'water-boy' as derisively referred to here may be true or a fraud. But let time be given and he be given some initial support to produce not just one or two but many - say at least 50 or 100 - such water-driven vehicles which can be test-ridden for some months at least. May be some lakhs or crores may be lost in this process but the risk has to be taken since if he succeeds, it will be beneficial not only to Pakistan but to the entire humanity. If he fails, and he is honest in his efforts, no further action may be taken against him except censure; but if fraud is detected, let him be strictly punished. But, by all means, encourage the experimenting for some time at least without eulogizing too much or involving corrupt elements in the process.
I am an engineer, the invention seems quite astonishing and impossible. However there is a possible explanation... Dr. Atta and Dr. Hoodbhoy are saying that it violates law of conservation of energy and 2nd law of thermodynamics. I also agree with Dr. Hoodbhoy when he says that the electrical energy required for splitting litres of water into hydrogen and hydroxyl cannot be provided by a car battery. But we also need to consider that we are also adding hydrogen to it... the initially charged battery cannot split enough water however once the hydrogen starts coming out of the splitted water it starts running the car, as well as the car generator which continuously charges the battery. If we consider that hydrogen molecules are being added to the system, the law of conservation of energy remains intact... this is an answer to Dr. Atta. And if we consider that a part of power being generated by burning hydrogen is being used to recharge the battery, the 2nd law of thermodynamics also remains intact... this is an answer to Dr. Hoodbhoy. I am not saying that the water kit is feasible, I cant say for sure without examining it myself. However this is not complete non sense, there is an explanation to the objections raised by Dr. Atta and Dr. Hoodbhoy.
Yes i agree with the writer, still there is time to verify the ''water kits'' before invest millions on water kits project
I think that if some one is not accepting a invention. Because only invented by a Sindhi v. Sad , I am feeling shame on this nation.
there is very little mechanical engineer expertise required.Hydrogen making is a electrolyte process.Even a chemist can resolve this issue.I disagree with engr.waqar that he is producing hydrogen from pure water as it is not possible.Current cant flow from pure water it certainly required some catalyst to flow current.i must say if he is succeed in producing hydrogen fron water then he must be using some catalyst to expedite chemical reaction.Engr.Waqar said that commerical hydrogen is currently produced by water which is a wrong cliam.the hydrogen commercially is produced by methane and Dr.Atta ur Rehman is right.One more thing which engr.waqar said that he invented this thing but he is again wrong.I still didnt forget my final year of engineering in which i studied hydrogen fuel cells.plus you guys can see more detail on youtube by searching hydrogen fuel cell car.
If people like Hamid Mir and Talat Husein can make millions for the kind of jobs they do then I am not sure how much money and people with ethics and psychological sophistication must be making in pakistan?
By the way, I do not agree with calling anyone as fraud or any other nasty word, as that shows equal lack of sophistication, a much easier way to gauge someone's worth is to engage him in a discussion and let his responses reveal to the world, even the people of pakistan, the truth of the matter. You may not have to even waste time to actually go and examine the "invention"
Believe me, the moment I heard of this new "invention" I could not hold my laughter, and more so when found our media and political units giving it such a gigantic following! In short, it was a good drama that our energy-starved nation enjoyed to the maximum, viewing in this "invention" the possible solution to its energy woes.
Thank you Agha Waqar for your piece of this great but cheap entertainment.
@all Agha Waqas supporters: Watch patiently these 2 elementary physics videos painstakingly explained by Usman Tariq. Then repeat your matric/o'levels.
Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cIvFdnTAZ4 Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfmihe9TGW4
So the nation supports a person who says 2+2=5. Hmm. How dumb.
@ Aleena
got impressed with your reaction . Perhaps it is becouse of identical background that we share ,
I as an young ecologist also working on a water kit that can break the water molecule against the law of thermodynamics and through cold fussion can generate an ecofriedly power to keep the existing six bl people intact on this polluted earth .
Breaking of water into Hydrogen and Oxygen by providing energy and then coverting these gases back to water is possible. But there is no engine with 100% efficiency. Water formation can not provide energy to charge battery as well as to run car with less than 100% efficiency. So water kit seems to be inpracticable to run an engine.
t get, why dont you accept it. Science is something which is created by us. And we are the ones who change it, invent it, and he (Agha Waqar) claims to have done it. And Dr. Atta Ur Rehman what does he know and what does all of you of what he has done. Pervez Hoodbhoy you havent seen anything yet you are simply declaring him fraud without even shred of prove, Why??If you study Quantum Mechanics and sub atomic theoratical physics you come across this fundamental concept of symmetry. This is not the symmetry that you and me know. This is very mathematical concept and all known laws of physics are can be tied or proven from the concept of symmetry. Most, if not all, sub atomic particle discoveries including the Higg's boson make heavy use of the principle of Symmetry and 'broken symmetry'. It has been shown that fundamental laws are all a manifestation of this principle of symmetry.
The law of thermodynamics come out very neatly from the principle of symmetry for time. If the 2nd law is violated, it means everything that science, especially the world of physics has discovered, is not true. But wait, whatever science has discovered is being used by us. The computer, electronics, your phone, everythings makes use of predictions made by Quantum mechanics based on this law time symmetry which Aga Waqar has proved to be wrong.
Aga sahib needs to come up with a new explanation of how the universe works too. And how accidently physics have been correctly able to predict and use phenomenons which resulted in modern technology?
strong text I don't know what's wrong in to go and visit the guy yourself and get it verified. This really seems something impossible if we consider the Second Law of Thermodynamics, but at least, Media and others should now ask the guy to prove it on other car(s) while scientists attending. Is it that difficult to take this nation out of misery?
@Cynical:
Dr Hoodbhoy, You have done a great service by writing this piece. Still there is hope some body has courage to bring forth the truth.
Us Pakistanis might as well connect a generator to an electric motor....give the generator a dhaka start initially and watch in awe as the generator moves its turbine to produce electric current to drive the motor which in turn rotates the turbine which again provides the current to the motor and so on and on and on...
And btw no one's doubting the he can produce car fuel from water.Its his claim of doing a round trip of pindi/isb in only a single liter of water and without his battery going dead.
I have never read any articles from Dr. Hoodbhoy before, and I am very happy that I didn't... A great attempt to ridicule our country. As far as Mr. Agha's research, as said by him, at least have a look at that before using any disrespectful word.
@Noreen Haider: May god bless your thi nking to each and every Pakistani ,
I dont know if the car was actually working or not. I am thankful to esteemed professor for sharing his knowledge with us but Sir , if i may ask , have you personally checked/evaluated the so called water pump?
It is really ruthless on the part of Pakistani society to trash everything because any practical prove.Iam shocked at comments of Dr.Attur Rehman who without practical approach adopted distant approach of observation...I bid best of luck to Agha Waqar
Don't make any more jocks of your self. Agha is a fraud.
now days its a burning issue in media that pakistani engineer agha waqar has invented water kit , if the renowned scientist have resevations or doubt they should approach agha waqar and examine it whether it is applicable or not, when two great scientist, dr,qadeer khan and smar says its applicable and dr atta ur rehaman and hoodbhoy says its against the basic law of physic, to whom nation may believe, it is a matter of concern that media , scientist, government shold give clearification soon to the nation , rather criticism or favour.
well written article.... it is obvious that one can not obtain energy from water unless it is heated up or made to fall from a higher position....so this, so called, engineer should have had tested and confirmed it firmly instead of making mockery of himself and the whole nation....
AOA, Well I came to know about this while I was watching Tv when this so called inventor was illustrating to the media about the water. The host who was asking the questions was a dull who by himself didnt know what to ask or not on the other mr waqar ahmed was so much anwerless infront of him forgetting that both of them werent aware of what they r talking about. It"s pointless to seperate and one element of oxygen from water and then make a new compound of oxyhydrogen and then burn it is as fuel in any running care through a simple home built kit...... Wake up people goal maal hai bai goal maal hai.. im nt an engineer nor a chemist but i know simple and basic science.... If im wrong u can blame me
Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy you have based you article on 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, it might be proven wrong in future, it can be right? Just google for "incorrect law of physics" to get more details on the laws that you think can't be challenged. It is unfortunate that your article title is incorrectly trying to say that Agha Waqar had been proven wrong. Did you went to see the demo? You could have put your basic challenge there.
I absolutely agree with this on you, see how many commenters here are missing basic points that you didn't even saw the demo and your assumption is based on a law that can be proven incorrect as other laws have been in the past. A Sorry Nation, indeed.
P.S. I don't believe Agha Waqar and I don't dream for Alladin-ka-chirag.
Salam to all. I totally agree with Dr Hood Bhoey. He was my first inspiration of studying astronomy. I am lecturer in Physics in F. G. Degree College and an amateur astronomer. You people can visit my site also "www.astrobaqir.webs.com". Only few things can be there. Either he has discovered something that strange which we all physicist didnt know before or may be he has forgot that pipe to disconnect from engine which carries patrol or may be he is hiding something...
@Syed Ali Raza: BMW is currently working on an engine that burns petrol but doesn't use the energy produced to directly drive the wheels, but converts it to electrical energy first and then uses that electricity to drive the wheels. They reckon they can get about 120 miles to the gallon from such an engine, rather than about 30 miles to the gallon. This gives better range, uses the existing fuel station infrastructure, keeps the vehicle light because batteries are heavy and also cuts out the pollution generated by manufacturing of batteries. Finally, it would be safer as well because charged batteries pose a significant danger.
I believe this sort of an engine is the way forward, coupled with possibly bioethanol.
Hats off for Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy. for giving detailed and logical comments on CAR run by Water only.Certainly decomposition of water could be done to burn Hydrogen in presence of Oxygen to produce energy. Is it so simple to achieve this without any other energy source? I remember the other day there was a video on a TV channel admiring a villager who produced few watt of energy from water falling from a tubewell completely forgetting huge amount of power being consumed.
@HH: Now we know how the nuclear bomb was created in Pakistan....a blow below the belt, I know....but please bear :))
General mass is not interested in theoretical physics. What they more be interested in practical applications of science. Please have a look on following and see what these Japanese people want to convey. Is it also a hoax?
http://www.genepax.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBm8ogwnpG0
I have this sense of deja vu. Scroll back to 1990s, Tamil Nadu, India. A semi-literate guy named Ramar Pillay came before the media with a wonderful find. While grazing goats in the Nilgiri hills he found a mysterious herb which yielded petrol when he boiled it. He demonstrated it too, right in front of the cameras. He stirred up a herbal mash in a pot of water with a huge iron ladle and stirred it while heating. Then a couple of scientists inspected it and declared that indeed, yes, there's an oily liquid floating on the surface which smells of petrol, It tested as petrol. Cars ran on it too The media went mad. Politicians went madder. Public yelled hallelujah in all the 14 official languages of India. A few weak voices were heard that it is impossible, how can petrol, which is a mixture of a number of hydrocarbons, be synthesized in a plant cell, and that too apparently with all the anti-knock additives too, so that engines ran without any hitch? These voices were drowned out by mocking, jeering and downright abuse. The Chief Minister of neighboring state of Andhra Pradesh Chandrababu Naidu announced a huge govt grant to Pillay to make a plant for this wonderful liquid in his State and govt land to cultivate the as yet mysterious herb. The awful truth eventually filtered out and the hyperactive media, "respected" scientists and politicians, went mysteriously silent. It was the huge karchha. It had a hollow handle which was filled with petrol. There was a small hole at the bottom which was plugged with a bit of resin. When heated this resin melted and .... petrol!
Whilst the Pakistani guy who has invented this water car may only be ignorant and not really a crook like Pillay, the reaction of media, scientists and politicians, even the public, is eerily similar. Pay heed to what Dr Hoodboy says, or you will also be deeply embarrassed afterwards!
We only know the laws we discovered...is there any thing we invented a law?? we insist for the things of our understanding (science) and understanding is revelation of the facts, are we revealed to all of them??? science is not the authority to say some thing do not exist, but yet to be discovered, like a frog in a well. History is evidence of many impossibles made possibles, wether the findings are calculated or by fluke, possibility is there. We should not limit possibilities due to lack of understanding. finally when we know nothing and things happens " ITS A MIRACLE ISNT " we know little than we know all.
I don't trust any media person these days so why I should believe you mr hoodbhoy ? There may be a breakthrough and oil companies will use media people to demean it. So this may be an effort and unknowingly you may be a tool?
I am really surprised at the pathetic knowledge of the TV anchors, the government servants , the illiterate national leaders and the scientists who come to the talk shows and expose themselves to the public that are fools and sycophants. why cant the TV anchors read the subject and ask probing questions. the problem with this nation is that the government can fool some of the people some of the time and all the people all the time. the big problem is with us the countrymen of this nation called Pakistan we have become the spectators
This is what happens when one passes all the school and university exams by learning by rote. It's points to the problem of how science is taught in schools.
There are two types of people not openly exposing the pseudo-science. There are the science-illiterates like Khurshid Shah and Hamid Mir. Then there are the likes of Samar Mubarakmand and AQ Khan who have a penchant to appear patriotic and remain in the headlines. Theoretically, Hydrogen can be burnt to produce energy, but separating it from water through electrolysis costs more than one can ever save on Petrol.
@OG
Hydro power is generating electricity by passing water using physics, not the composition of water. Why are we so sarcastic when faced with individuals who have recognised educational credentials?
This is a perfect example of "BhaiR Chaal". Hamid Mir said it is true, we all say in unison "it is true' Now Hoodbhoy proves it wrong and we all nod our heads saying "mujhay to pahlay hi pata tha k ye sab jhoot hy" We are actually a funny bunch of folks !
@Pervez Hoodbhoy
YOU ARE WRONG.
Your laws are applicable to human work. But when there's ALLAH involved, everything is possible.
Didn't you hear this Mr. Khan say to Hamid Mir "Ahlamdulillah, maine karke dikhaya hain".
Pervez Hoodbhoy proposes. Allah disposes.
Shukar he ! We have some real scientists in Pakistan.
Pervez Hoodbhoy is a scientist but i didn't find any scientific reasoning in his column to contradict, what Agha Waqar Ahmad is calming, it would be batter if it is written with logical reasoning rather then mare opposition.
In theory, we could extract energy out of water using fusion, right? Water is the oxide of hydrogen. Hydrogen is the main fuel for all the fusion going on in the core of the sun. Why has that not been investigated? Or is it not possible?
in my opinion this is not a fraud. i will not use the word fraud for this "invention". it's a hard work from a polytechnic engineer who tried his best to solve the energy issue in pakistan. he may not be able to prove it theoretically but we should not discourage innovative approach. my suggestion is the different government department should select five to ten cars/ bikes/ other automobiles and place this waterkit and run these automobiles for six months in different part of the country. if it is succeeded we should name this kit as the "waqar water kit" and if not succeded then we should just forget it because in all RnD work there is a chance of success and failure. it is a normal part of research and development procedure. as a nation we should learn to encourage people with innovative approach.
Well if nothing else, these stories take the nations focus off prevailing political problems... like the conspiracies implied are entertaining, fascinating and distracting people’s thoughts, taking them off the real TRUTH. It’s like Arabian Nights!
This is not some thing new... People in the past have already made a water car and found fraud in this invention.. read it your self http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StanleyMeyer'swaterfuelcell
I Am not a Science student myself and obviously don't know nothing on thermodynamics as well but in my opinion Pervaiz sir and Atta-ur-Rehman are little harsh they should first see just rejecting anything outright is not fair..........And Mr Pervaiz Sahab that Polytechnic institute in Khairpur can produce a genius
I did a little research on it myself and this is what I found...maybe he is not using a constant electrical source, instead using electrical pulses to split water molecules...cuz one of his friends said something about pulse width modulation during an interview...and I being an electrical engineer am familiar with the process...maybe it makes the process more efficient...anyway, it should be tested thoroughly, only then anything can be said. http://www.kodasplace.com/more/watermotors.html
there is no fraud in that water kit. i can proof that all then even a simple man can be sure of its accuracy. even that technology is being used by poor persons in pakistan. even that is not voilating the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
@Sabih Zafar Ullah: Well i am not sure what to say unless or until it is practically proven. science is full of ideas for example world is believing that man has landed on the moon, though arguments against it are quite convincing.i am going to post a youtube link for a research about zero point free energy please do watch it. "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38NioCGr5as"
Hope you have the answers
there is no fraud at all in agha waqar kit to run car. acctually agha waqar is not disclosing the fact that he is mixing special material in water to produce energy to run car 100% on kit. i know that material too but will not disclose that material as we are also making that kit too. that is not voilating the Second Law of Thermodynamics .
acctually that material is used by poor poeple to generate energy or gas, but they are illeterare to use that system to make kit to run a car on that.
i challenge any person in the world even the writer of this blog , even after my disclosue of material every person would believe that all. as every one in pakistan see that experiment every corner of big street or shop. its not a big deal. but i will take a reasonable amount to disclose that fact.
@Ahmer Butt: .if u realli wana prove him wrong...then go to isb and show him where he is fooling everybody...agha has invited everi1 from pakistan to come nd prove him wrong.......;)
@HH, you have reached to the right conclusion. To me this scientist attained this position by playing religious politics.
@Tanzeel It was never a law that "earth is flat". It was only a hypothesis that people believed in before the arrival of scientific method of inquiry.
@Cynical: Human from clay was created by Allah. whereas this water vehicle invented by a perfect member of this nation who is filled with fraudulent ideas and crippled mind. is there any relation between creation of man from clay to water vehicle. the posterior is an absolute fraud which was unluckily lauded by a bunch of cheaters including ministers and their henchmen. what kind of image we are delivering to the world.
@Tanzeel: There was never a "law" that the earth is flat. It was a theory.
Just keep the law of thermodynamics aside for a moment. Keeping in view the molar ratio of hydrogen in water only 0.11 kg hydrogen is present in 1 litre of water and engine's efficiency is 30 % how can he make 50 kms in 1 litre of water when 1 kg of CNG makes only 21 kms ???
Being a student of Art, I avoid to involve into topic.But as an observer I see a healthy discussion among the educated people of Pakistan and rest of the world.I believe for a very healthy advancement in the world of Science even the inventor fails to prove it. Because many researchers advance in their fields even if their hypothesis fails.(Hypotheses proves or disproves but NEVER FAIL.
No doubt water H2O having two components, Hydrogen and Oxygen. No doubt water can be split into its two components but up to now it is scientifically approved that the energy produced is equal to energy applied to complete this process.So idea is not feasible.
There are only two sane dudes in this country who went against the 'EXPERIMENT'. Whats wrong in experimenting and challenging different laws of science? By the way is it the same science which is still confused whether light travels in straight line or like a wave?
The writer seems jealous of a non-popular guy from a small town coming up with atleast something. I dont even care if its fake or fraudulent, the only thing I care about is his attempt. What good Mr. Writer or Mr. Atta have done for the nation in the name of science?
We are the laughing stock of the world! Sadly we have reached that stage whereby the nations diminishes. Reminds me of the fall of Roman Empire although we never achieved the level of Roman Empire. We must check Dr. A.Q.Khan & Dr. Samarkand degrees also they might have got their degrees like Amir Liaquat and others.
A few years back similar claim was made by a motor mechanic in India who did not get the publicity the so called Pakistani inventor is receiving.Pak media in concert with ministers and some greedy sciienctists have exposed their intellectual levels and made the country a laughing stock.The eyes are on 1.1 billion dlrs received from USA.
now i am very surprised . .... did any scientist or engineer practically tested it and shared it's finding with people ... the answer is NO till yet ... read the last paragraphs of your post he is saying "The water fraud will be exposed soon enough" ... her baiwakoof uth kar posts kar raha hai koi jaa kar uss machine ko test nahi kar sakta :@
You should get your facts straight, Doctor AQ Khan never said what you have quoted. It was some other person, ad please let this country be a bit optimistic. I dont kow, why pessimists like you cannot believe that, the inventor has give demonstrations to thousand of sane people ans scientists. If you have doubts go to Islamabad and check the car out.
well there is enough of material available on internet for making the water kit.. so we know our chap did not invent it. But what does this have to do with second law of thermo dynamics?? just for my own curiosity...as I remember the second law says no process is possible until heat is transferred from body of high temp to low temp!! so where does it come in use in hydrogen fuelled system!!!!
Water car and scientific fraud aside, its really good to see Dr. Hoodbhoy finally expressing ideas in a field he actually belongs to.
Dr. Pervaiz has been a very vocal again Dr. Atta Ur Rehman's policies when he was HEC chairman. At that time, he proved him (Dr. Atta) wrong and now proving another person wrong without seeing, meeting and testing the invention. This seems based on short-sightedness and intolerance, What happens if these critics go and see themselves and tell us their observation not about law of thermo.. They must spend some time on observation rather than writing this full page article. Kindly help your Government and people to understand what is reality and do not confuse us.
who made these laws v humans and who change these laws v humanz ....... simple
Sir with your due respect if it is a fraud then what method these engineers are using to run a vehicle? can you explain it please. A guy in my city from AJ&K has also claimed such success and he practically demonstrated in front of many people including engineers.
the scientists of the whole world are after to control the energy crisis in world ,from more than100 years now try to get energy from different ways , till now they did not get a scientific procedure to get output>input always output LESS THAN input . and to break H2O INTO needs energy and we cant get 100% out put, there loss of energy. And here is just water Agha Waqar should know it . If he really got the way to produce more out put than in put then he should just demostrate only car engine without car without patrol tank and with out CNG KIT.just only engine and 12 dc current and his WATER KIT.
the scientists of the whole world are after to control the energy crisis in world ,from more than100 years now try to get energy from different ways , till now they did not get a scientific procedure to get output>input always output<input . and to break H2O INTO needs energy and we cant get 100% out put, there loss of energy. And here is just water Agha Waqar should know it . If he really got the way to produce more out put than in put then he should just demostrate only car engine without car without patrol tank and with out CNG KIT.just only engine and 12 dc current and his WATER KIT.
16-Year Old Boy Solves 350 Years Old Puzzles Posed By Sir Isaac Newton
Details: http://thetechjournal.com/science/16-year-old-boy-solves-350-years-old-puzzles-posed-by-sir-isaac-newton.xhtml#ixzz22Tm7o7nx
If he can do this why not a Pakistani could...If it is a fraud lets give it a try what other options do we have ?Lets see whats coming in our way now..
@ Dr Hoodbhoy, Your effort is appreciateable, the only objection i have that you used the word engineer for this man (Agha). A man who dont have fundamental understanding of science, engineering & mathematics does even qualify to claim E of engineer?
A man (Agha) who dont know that distilled water cannot be electrolyzed, capacitors dont work on pure DC, resonance cannot be created from capacitors on pure DC, he even dont know the resonace frequecy of water and what amplitude of waves is required to break the bond, a man who just knows that clarofic value of hydrogen is three times of gasoline but dont know that its density is approx 7.5 times less so you cant feed it into engine with natural aspiration (without modification), a man who dont know what enegy he is putting and what getting out in KW and have no energy balance equation. A man even dont know what he has done and what process is happining in his invention.
But he has broken first, second & third law of thermodynamics, he has slaughtered physics & chemistry. He has even shaked the fundamentals of mathematics.
But with all his ignorance he is saying that he designed the kit and has made calaculation. isint illogical. OR some angles just appeared from heaven and just invented everthing for mr Agha and they forgot to tell him what they have done.
wow Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy you spent your all energy in criticizing this inventor, would you like to please tell me that have you approached the inventor and asked him to do experiment on electric generator(as per your suggestion)????? Simple is that The Writers of your type are hired to just demotivate the people who wants to do something for Pakistan.
Any expert who has practical experience in such matter and who has done with education in Mechanical engineering would criticize that ..these Dr.samar and Dr. abdulqadir (Metallurgical engineers) are not of Mechanical background and can only give general opinion..the Media is foolish who is Not asking an Expert and rather relaying on what said by Dr.samar and our stupid politicians..
Thanks for exposing our jahil nation. Cheers.
If Pakistanis are pushing the boundaries of scientific laws, the Indians must not be left far behind.
Indians must go one step further and invent a car that runs on urine. A simple device - lets call it the MICTURINATOR will split up the urine into Hydrogen, Oxygen and Phosphorus. The Hydrogen & Oxygen will be used to run the engine and the phosphorus will be used to make fertilizers - thereby increasing food production.
Bothers and Sisters, 340 comments till date and time on this article from Hoodbhoy, Ok, Good number and good cooments as well. But the problem is how many of us will remember that this absurd event / incident occurs in Pakistan? According to Mr. Agha he has already been contacted by some international companies for industrial scale production for this so called "WATER KIT". so go with them, they do have better resources. The thing is Mr. Agha got his fame, our JOURNALISTS, SCIENTISTS and POLITICIANS got defamed in my eyes and hope for few others. Thumbs upf for HOODBHOY and Dr. ATTA. Thumbs down for the rest of bunch (Including Dr. Samar and Dr. Qadeer).
At first when I saw it on TV, I was quite delicate to hear this but I was quite unfortunate of how it works. Suddenly after some rough watching I came to the conclusion that it somehow forms an OH ion from water molecules and then break the ion which is certainly an exothermic reaction, which the NASA uses to power their shuttles, but now without any doubt it is impossible what he says...
Agha Waqar should incorporate a "loss-compensating" solar panel on his vehicle to shut-up all non-sense that currently he is receiving from too many fathers of Physics and Thermodynamics.
So Hoodbhoi(I never understood ur name really) lets say if, only if, this guy's idea(i will not call it an invention) somehow comes out to be true, lets just for 1 sec suppose that, would you leave your profession for good? because it will clearly show that you are incapable of thinking out of the box and other possibilities that exist in this mystrious world of ours.And because you remain a part of that majority of human race who never encourage a new thought which might not be entirely correct but may lead to something else that is even better.I heard that you are a professor, well if you are than dear sir anybody can teach others by reading and learning from someother ppl's work. The real thing is that you do something that other ppl learn and than they make others learn that too. I'm not saying that Agha Waqqar is right, i dont know that, but what i am saying is that you sir will never be able to leave behind you something that ppl before you didnt know. You simply dont have the capacity to dream.Not only that,but you also hate those who do dream of something that is impossible.
Agha water (Waqar) has demonstrated his invention before scientist, and other no one has denied at that moment.
Readers, kindly visit Wikipedia - Stanley Meyer's Water Fuel Cell, to know the reality of water fuel
Brothers and Sisters, Till date and time we have 340 comments on this article by HOODBHOY. How many of us will remember this absurd event occurs in Pakistan??. we do have very short memories. Mr Agha got his fame, our scientists, journalist and POLITICIANS defamed as always. Thumbs up for HOODBHOY and Dr. ATTA. Thumbs down for all the rest (Including Dr. Samar and Dr. Qadeer).
@Fowad Iqbal: An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof. Scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses via predictions which can be derived from them. These steps must be repeatable, to guard against mistake or confusion in any particular experimenter. Scientific inquiry is generally intended to be as objective as possible in order to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established
@Tanzeel:
Than's not how it works. It works with evidence, not wishful thinking. There is not a single credible observation in the macro-world where 2nd law of thermodynamics has been violated. Not just earthly phenomena like engines, refrigerators etc. are dependent on second law, but the theories and explanations of the workings of the universe depend on the validity of the second law. Don't try to gloss over science by sweeping philosophical comments.
Finally:
@Ali S: right you are bro...agree with you 100%
We are living in the world of ignorance. The water kit fraud will be exposed soon.
well i cannot understand what this all has to do with the second law of thermodynamics... the concept of fuel cell is pretty old and simple, use water and some catalyst in a fuel cell, apply voltage to the electrodes and you get oxygen and hydrogen gas, fill that hydrogen gas inside a tank ,then take a pipe from the tank into the CNG kit , and here you go .., and ive also witnessed a simple household emergency electrical generator with a gas kit running on this fuel cell....though it was an experiment.... okay the problems are , as well as know that hydrogen is most combustive gas, and it is an exothermic process, so you cannot run your engines on this for long as these engines are not designed for this , but yeah it is possible, but the personally this claim is not something extraordinary, ...as there is no such rocket science involved ..plus its not like he invented something new which the world didn't knew about, there are some flaws to it otherwise the whole world have been running their cars on water.... anyhow i dont know why is everyone having negative comments on this , guys try to appreciate and encourage ...
In this case, the attitudes of scientists, politicians, and general innocent public clearly reflect and confirm that we are not tuned to look for basis through evidence. The research and its role in our culture is absolutely absent.
I think its not fraud be open your mind and check what he is saying he is saying to come in front of me give me any car i will run that on water....So go an ask him....y you are wasting your time and all others,just ask to come and prove....
While reading these comments I am shocked and saddened by our usage of strong words (and since its Ramadan we cant even blame it on the shaitan). Please remember that when we comment in this forum about the "inventor" in strong words, we are bad mouthing only our own country man. It also shocks me how people, by reading just one article can form such strong opinions about a man's work, especially, when the above article merely seems a detailed CRITIQUE to the "publicity" given to such an "invention". I am no science person but I do know the difference between a "well-researched answer" article and one that is aimed at just throwing dirt at someone and unfortunately this article falls in the later category. And from the comments it seems that the author gives a high priority to students who praise him strongly below his articles, rather than those who may disagree with him or so many of his students who not have commented or at least with such "boot licking" vocab... All I want to say is that if there is really an invention of such a kind, give the man a chance or prove him a liar with evidence and not with words that may show your shallow character and your dirty minds... Thankyou
writing an article in a comfortable room wont do good for us ... Go check the credibility yourself ... i still don't understand the so called scientist's rigid refusal to say No it cant be ... come on go ahead and check it yourself ... do it man
I am curious, what does qoran says about second law of thermodynamics. If it is not mentioned in qoran then it is just man made law and can be broken.
aahh A guy writing for a foreign English newspaper bashing media for spreading hoax. Tell me one thing Mr Hoodbhoy, who do you want to give this message to through this outlet? less than .0001% Pakistanis whom this paper reaches? So according to your view, best way to beat Pakistani ignorance is to write an article in a foreign newspaper, collect your check and have a laugh with your friends. You do have a simple life, don't you?. Now this guy may well be a fraud, but have you challenged him personally? No. your suggestion is for every Pakistani to call that guy home and test him on home generator. I wonder how many lives that will take the guy to prove himself. Simple fact of the matter is that just like your brothers in media, you are only blowing your own trumpet. As far as the government is concerned, I am sure that they have this fourth meeting planned to finalize a way of making money out of this. I cannot say what pressure our scientists were under to support this "fraud", as you call it. It may have been the pressure from 200 million energy hungry people. All of you, calling Dr. Samar and AQ Khan dumb, take a good look at yourselves and be ashamed. Nations forgetting their heroes so easily never become great. Those guys have achieved a lot for this nation, come back when you do half as much as they have done.
@Dr. Pervaiz: It's unfair to drag Dr. Samar into this. His claim was that "hydorgen fuel can be used to run cars but is expensive and the rest of his views were same as Dr. Atta-Ur-Rehman's, but in a nicer tone" If you want to confirm what I have just said please watch the PTV show "Such tou yeh hai". In this show Dr. Samar clearly says that the equipment is not capable of running a car and that this violates the laws. If you want to drag him just becaue he said the same things as Dr. Atta but in a nicer tone then that's unfair and makes your credibility questionable.
There is no point arguing with people who are waiting for miracles and disrespect their Teachers and PhD doctor for such frauds. They will not and cannot understand scientific facts. I hope that Dr. Atta Ur Rehman takes some practical steps to end this embarrassment. I doubt we'll learn any lesson even if it were proven a fraud. People will have the opinion " AWWWW koi baat nahin at least he tried. This shows our nation is a nation of inventors". As a science student I just feel embarrassed.
Let us even assume that the car is running on Hydrogen. Do people even know how much energy is needed to break up water to Hydrogen and Oxygen. First use energy to break up water. Where is this energy coming from ? Its not magic that is going to make this happen. Also the amount of energy produced by burning this hydrogen will ALWAYS be less than that is used to produce it.
People around the world are not retards. Millions of dollars have been spent by the smartest people on the planet trying to find smart ways to make it easier and find more efficient ways to produce energy and some engineer from a tiny town in Pakistan has supposedly managed it. Shameful that there are a ton of people who are actually defending him. Im sure its allah who has decided to give the thekedars of islam Pakistan this great power to solve the energy/financial/electrical .... problems. What a joke of a country Pakistan is. Shameful.
Very bad wording used for Agha Waqar Ahmed in this artical.
Again dear ... we all the know the repute of Pervaiz Hoodbhoy. His anti Pakistan and Islam agenda. Here in this article he like Dr. Atta ur Rehman has accused Aga Sb and again used the theoretical laws that he had been reading and teaching since ages. He cited MIT class experience to impress and make his point more powerful. However, unfortunately this article is just another allegation and propaganda campaign. Why not Mr. Hoodbuoy goes there and examines this piece of equipment, I hope he would learn new things to teach in the future. We all should take into account that these laws of Physics are not the laws of Almighty God and not the words of Holly Book. They can change and adjust with new things. I JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THESE SO CALLED SCIENTIST WHO BELIEVE THAT SCIENCE IS DOING RESEARCH ARE GIVING OPINIONS AND NOT DOING THE BASIC FACTOR OF RESEARCH. SIR, PLZ GO THERE AND EXAMINE YOURSELF.... Nation should ask questions to these two doctors why they are making assumptions why don't they go and see for themselves how this thing works. I wounder if this might have happened in USA, UK or anywhere else in the world scientists would have gathered to help refine this thing and would have sold to the world error free version of this. Even though it had been a fluke...
Very well said sir, but you mention the second law of thermodynamics without dwelling into it. I know that would have been very complicated but you should have at least explained what the second law of thermodynamics is and connected it to Agha Waqar Ahmad's experiment. To give some proof to us skeptics.
I am laughing since last 2 days, not on the halla hoo of media and politician praises for the Engineer, but on the quality of education that we ordinary pakistanis are getting and state of knowlege our reknown scientests and Engineers who Dont Know basic Physics 'Wow'
It is sindh punjab issue now, it is CJ sou moto issue now, it is qusetion of our Eman and kufr and blah blah....
God bless this great country of ignorants.
It is one of the most shared articles in social media in recent times, which itself speaks of its volumes. Bravo Hoodbhoy.
Glad you wrote about this. It's very disappointing how the media gave it so much attention.
@mirza, just to correct you, BS is a form of energy. Dung may be and is collected and used to produce biogas to generate electricity and heat. Its is being promoted in the US as a source of alternative green energy
Quit surprising it was to see the response of people of Pakistan. The conclusion of this lifted-up story has proved how low the level of people is about the simple basics of science principles. The renowned media personalities, our Phd scientist too easily started to believe on the working of this water kit with out examine the kit technically. That is the reason why we lack today in technological advancements. I agree with Pervez Hoodbhoy totally and really there was only one person who seems to know and understand the science, hence opposed and said it a fraud is DR Atta ur Rehman. Hats-off
I think this will be proved wrong as this is against the laws of science. If that is the case, the scientists who have been supporting the water theory, should be subjected to verification of their Scientific Knowledge and rechecking their credentials for holding such high posts. Anchors and Ministers should be taken to task for bringing more disrepute to this unfortunate country of innocents and ignorant.
I was waiting for Prof. Hoodbhoy to share his thoughts on this fraud. I totally agree with him. thank God we have some sane people among our scientific community, majority of whom so naively believe in this water kit 'invention'.
The writer appears to just be jealous that despite having gone to MIT and teaching for decades, a locally educated inventor could 'outwit' him and the world! This is common 'elitist' thinking in Pakistanis. People educated abroad can not admit the locals have world-class talent and capabilities!! Most inventions in history were not made by big scientists, but by simple individuals who just decided to change the world to the better!
Muslims have always been at the forefront of innovation and eduction. Both in arts and science they have out-classed the world! The writer needs to self-reflect why someone else's success is pinching him? Is that the result of his education or simply arrogance!!
Salute to the water vehicle inventor! you will be remembered in history!! Share your miracle with the world and make us all proud !!
Thank you for reading!
haha, I could not control my laugh while reading this article...Your article reminds me of one famous joke circulated through SMS regarding Pakistanis "if none could do it then how can you do it". Theories are subject to changes and his practical has successfully refuted the past ones. To invent something does not always require an MIT degree. And yeah all the great men in history were once considered fools by the people like us. We simply can't accept the fact that a country like Pakistan can do something. Please try to appreciate the talent!
@Tanzeel: Theories have indeed been proved wrong . . . however, there is a prescribed way for doing that. Politicians, and even individual scientists, are NOT equipped to prove/disprove scientific theories; instead, it is the job best done by Scientific Institutes and/or a team of scientists.
I think there is possibility ! I don't think its totally fraud....
MMr. Hoodbhoy, though I do believe about the validity of this invention, I am shocked to see this rather degrading attitude towards mr Waqar and where he graduated from? Let me remind you sir, and I don't like doing this but your apparent contempt for his education has forced me to, Steve Jobs, the greatest innovator of our times without question, was a first term dropout from Reid college. You sir, possess 4 more degrees than Mr. Jobs and all from much more prestigious institution. Do you see where I am going with this? I need not say more.
Dr Sahib, being fan of yours and a close friend of one of your colleagues Prof Jameel Umer, I am well aware of command you possess on subject you teach, i.e, Physics. It is difficult to disagree with you but this articles seems to make credentials of our reputed scientists (Dr Qadeer, Dr Samar) questionable. If ignorant commons like us look for some magic lamp, there is nothing to be concerned about, however those whom we pinned high hopes of some miracle in our lives, ignorance of basic laws of physics on their part is appalling.
@Ali Sajid Imami: excellent Sir.
One does not need tp be a brilliant scientist to understand what a nation of quacks we are becoming. One just needs integrity.
If Abdul Qadir Khan... the great "googly specialist" is saying it is possible then it is definitely possible :)
@sana: I cannot tell what a great thinker Hoodbhoy has contributed in High Energy Physics which is his field and not mine but I'm sure being a Chemistry graduate of an age of his past students that it is quite unusual to have Bachelor & PhD from MIT for especially any Pakistani. Moreover, being a scientist of true nature he was the first one of all the scientist and social scientists in the whole world who warned of the disasters with the reasons when none even from America was aware of what the whole sale indoctination that produced present day Talibans. It was his piece of writing in a book edited by Air Marshal (rtd) Ghulam Asghar, Vanguard Books Lahore, in 1984 when the dark era of Islamization of sate and society was at its peak and Ronald Ragon, the then president of USA was not behind any to admire these Taliban as Mujahideen etc.
A. Leave Agha Waqar's car alone.
B. Take his water kit.
C. Bring it to any motor mechanic's shop.
D. Attach it to any engine.
E. Fill it with water.
F. Press 'Start'.
If it works- Good.
If not......Look before you leap.
@Sabih Zafar Ullah: please lets not be scandalous as a nation . give the poor man a chance to prove himself if earth is not flat is not the right example by tanzeel . please remember that vision is something that we lack wright brothers had a vision for a flying machine after numerous failures and crashed they finally changed the world forever . give the man credit for having a vision trying to find alternative source of energy. it may not work this time but may be some day he will be able to do something for the country please donot discourage people from Thinking in this country give them the freedom to think and invent even if it is wrong as they re already deprived of resources and facilities . let this nation open its mind .... You might be knowing alot Higgs boson watever nobody can challenge your competence here on this forum but unless you come up with something beneficial for this country we dont care about your competence . Dr Qadeer has done a service to the nation so has Dr Samar Mubarik mand .. and we expect our scientist to do something abt the worst current energy crises we re facing and if they dont do something now then their competence make no sense to us .
They way we are treating the matter is just amazing and astonishing. We need further investigations in this regards rather putting it as fraud. Fuel & Petrol mafia is now on pitch to fail this initiative and these people are taking money to express their opinions about the invention.
@Tanzeel: While it may be true that science does change its mind in light of new evidence, the degree of belief about different things being true does vary among the different things that science holds true. For example, we have a lot of evidence in support of the theory that earth is round. We have seen it from outer space and now we are pretty-sure that it is round. What would it take to show us that it is flat? I guess there is no room for it being flat any more.
Similarly there are scientific laws which have so much evidence supporting them that anyone who claims to have broken them is at fault himself. The laws of thermodynamics are among such laws.
I am really surprised to read this article by Dr. Pervwz Hoodbhoy. And I am pretty sure no one tried this water kit thing. Yes it's true that water kit won't work with a emergency electricity generator with an empty fuel tank, because some energy is used to do the electrolysis. So this is true that a car cannot run just on water, but what Agha Waqar Ahmed did was first produce some hydrogen from electrolysis of water before disconnecting the CNG. Once you have sufficient hydrogen, you can start the car and electricity from battery will do the magic with water. As long as car is running, battery keeps getting charge from alternator and that charge will keep doing electrolysis. If you have any doubts, just try it. Please do some research before writing articles and putting comments.
@Tanzeel
If gravity is only a law and "They tend to change with era" then do us all a favour and jump off a cliff to test it.
Congrats ET for 300+ comments. Dr. Parvez Hoodbouy is right. One good thing we have discovered through ET today is that Pakistan does have people with scientific temper. May all our strength go to them.
if anybody have heard of water fuel cell which are already discovered in 1998 ... why dont u search wikipedia ... The water fuel cell is a purported free energy device invented by American Stanley Allen Meyer (August 24, 1940 – March 21, 1998). He claimed that an automobile retrofitted with the device could use water as fuel instead of gasoline. The fuel cell purportedly split water into its component elements, hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen was then burned to generate energy, a process that reconstituted the water molecules. According to Meyer, the device required less energy to perform electrolysis than the minimum energy requirement predicted or measured by conventional science.[1] If the device worked as specified, it would violate both the first and second laws of thermodynamics,[1][2] allowing operation as a perpetual motion machine.[2] Meyer's claims about his "Water Fuel Cell" and the car that it powered were found to be fraudulent by an Ohio court in 1996.[1][3]
Dear sir,
I share your hunch that this water car engineer is a fraud. But you are not a fraud and your article should reflect this! In this article you are claiming something about the engineer's claim as if you have scientifically verified, being a scientist, that his claim is untrue. Which you have not, as far as the text goes.
The only scientific reason you give is, "It’s that the laws of physics, in particular a fundamental scientific principle known as the Second Law of Thermodynamics, impose inviolable constraints. " Being a scientist, of quantum physics at that, you should know that different laws of 'classical' physics have been proven to be violable. There was a time when they were considered inviolable, and then came a time somebody showed a violation. Being a scientist, you should be taking these laws as fallible, which you aren't seemingly, by making fun of this engineer without proper scientific investigation. I urge you to stop acting like priests of medieval times by labeling every violation of the prevalent laws as fraud or heresy. Fortunately for our nation, you do not hold that medieval priest kind of power to go any further than that.
Kind Regards
Umar Suleman
PS. 1. Wikipedia references are generally not used to reason about a scientific claim. 2. MIT nation has equal if not greater tendency to dish success to con scientists and inventors and to believe in, arguably world's most rigged, media without asking for basic scientific proof.
Its smells something underneath. Dr. Hoodbhoy a big name in the country did not invent even single item, but a Sindhi Engineer who is educated from Khairpur, how he can bear him? I am an engineer from interior sindh, and know the laws of thermodynamics, basically Dr. Atta Ur Rehman is right, but why dont you people see Waqars invention and catch what is wrong, rather barking on channel and media. Learn to bear and appreciate others rather critizing. I had learnt but now its sure you are totally a biased person. Shame on you.
@Inimam: @Tanzeel:
Earth being flat and sun setting in a muddy pond are illiterate if not duplicitous speculations. They are not experimentally proven laws of nature.
it is good article
I wonder this could be a fraud at this scale where a large number of learned people along with media and parliamentarians are evident of the phenomenon or its just professional jealousy for discouraging that gentleman to make the headway for resolution of Pakistan energy crisis.
Without going into discussions "This is the height of bankruptcy of our ruling elite as they are deeply involved in short cuts of corruptions and Agha Waqar Ahmad (Poor fellow) has been used as a tool by the persons who brought him to media, after all he too has right to rise & shine like others"
look men.
how? if you wana challenge him do it. if you wana do debate on this new invention don't go on extreme.
he is not mad. some thing is there. remember sun is also moving
Much needed write-up Sir, Thanks!
For all NON-Technical viewers
practical example proved: " pump ya electric motor ko use karta huwa ho pani ko height pa la k jain and then throw that water on turbine jo usa rotate kar wa k electric energy produced kary(like in dam).. so it was seen k jitni electric energy use hoi pump ma pani ko height pa la k jany k liye utne wapis gernrate nahi hoi becoz of friction forces"
Elec. used by pump = Elec. created by turbine + energy to come over friction of turbine + energy to come over friction of pump Elec. used by pump > Elec. created by turbine
Best engine in world can only generate upto 40%-45% of energy 60% energy is wasted in form of friction, heat ...
so the man who is saying that he has genrated such type of kit.. Because orignal source of energy is not water but the electricity that started
Battery -> Electrolysis -> Hydrogen Produced -> Hydrogen Burn -> Engine Run Batery End -> Electrolysis Stop -> Hydrogen not Produced -> not heat -> Engine Stop
According to Law of Thermodynamics (its LAW same as Newton's LAW not a theroy)
Battery for electrolysis = Hydrogen + Oxygen + loss of energy in electrolysis(its not ideal case) Battery for electrolysis = Hydrogen Burn + Oxygen + loss of energy in electrolysis // // = Heat + Oxygen + CO2 + loss of energy in electrolysis // // = move engine + loss of heat(heat that got wasted in air) + Oxygen + CO2 + loss of energy in electrolysis // // = move engine + energy loss in friction (tyres) + loss of heat + Oxygen + CO2 + loss of energy in electrolysis // // = move car + charge battery + energy loss in friction + loss of heat + Oxygen + CO2 + loss of energy in electrolysis
suppose 100% = 30% + 10% + 20% + 30% + 3% + 3% + 4%
Hence Proved FRAUD (If he is not FRAUD then he should clame for NOBEL PRIZE for changing the Physics)
We are ignoring one other aspect which relates to our infrastructure and research institutes. In my opinion, to present any idea is not the fault(no matter true or not) but the exposour to media and acceptance of scientists without testing and this is the duty of scientists and research institutes. If Pakistan is going to face another joke then it is not due to that engineer who present this idea but due to scientists and research institutes & media. And also I request be polite in answering and during your compliments as the harsh way can discourage the true true as well.
A Pakistani friend of mine had given me the you tube link to this story on Facebook my response was" If true it would be great for Pakistan and the world but lets not go overboard because we have had some such claimants in India also who have later on proved to be frauds. If however a scientist like Prof Hoodbhoy were to certify this claim i would be thrilled"
I feel ashamed when I see so much attention given to this fake invention. Where should I hide???
AoA, But you also did not prove scientifically that how "Water as a fuel theory" failed.
Dr. Hoodbhoy, Thank you for the article. Incidentally I also watched that program and could not believe the ignorance of TV anchor, head of PCSIR and AQ Khan. That was really embarrassing. I would not even mention about political jokers because they can do anything to be in the lime light. Even some remarks from the readers are echoing some hope from this fraud and misleading so-called invention. I guess, in this kind of despair environment, people of my beautiful Pakistan are waiting for some miracle or divine hand. The only divine hand is hard work and dedication.
Pervaiz Hoodbhoy' you are great. I knew that you had differences with Dr.Atta in the past yet you gave credit to him for rejecting the so-called water kit. As far as the laws are concerned it is Pakistan and here every law can be proved to be wrong. There is a law that "killing of an innocent person is tantamount to the killing of whole humanity" but we the so-called Muslims have proved it wrong by killing not one but thousands of innocent persons and saying that humanity is still there.
@Cynical: Because we humans are not God.
I would like to point out that a nuclear explosion generates far more energy than is put into making two uranium chunks combine to form a critical mass. How this is reconciled with the Thermodynamics law I would leave it to the writer to expound on but the point to test is if the electricity used to separate the Hydrogen from the oxygen is more than the energy output from burning the Hydrogen. Thats all except for the safety of the hydrogen which is highly explosive. The matter is for engine engineers to pursue and Ataur Rahman should have used less accusatory language to express his justified skepticism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXHR5P3X_GA&feature=youtu.be
So dr. umar saif gives his opinion... the whole issue is so idiotic
Its a shame that nobody, even the media did any research on the topic and everybody took it as a chat patta piece of news, the only thing they know is to create hype and make money out of it and sadly the engineer has exploited that. Water Power has been around for a long time (first patent in 1939 !!) Hydrogen is the main component which is used to create energy (water does not burn). Only problem has been Energy required to seperate hydrogen from water is greater than what you get back in turn to move the wheels, so you are better off storing that energy in batteries and moving wheels from there.. Hydrogen can be produced through other ways, though its an entirely different topic of hydrogen economy and why its not feasible as well. The best option that is sustainable is to produce power from renewable sources which do not require input of energy such as wind turbines, sea turbines, Bio Gas and use energy from there. Every energy expert in the world, even in Pakistani industry knows that.. However no one bothered to ask them. There is a reason why non of the multi billion corporations didnt send their private jets full of money flying in and getting the engineer to work for them :P
Only Pakistanis can pull this stunt in Pakistan.
Prof. Hoodbhoy is a pseudo-scientist and is dead wrong. This technology is the real thing, and I am afraid will upset the power-balance in South Asia.
As an Indian, I am just burning with envy at how Pakistan has beaten us at technological advancement.
I can only fervently hope our conventional edge over the Pak Army will still hold when you guys convert all your Tanks, artillery units, fighter jets & troop transport vehicles to run on this path-breaking water-kit technology.
Of course, it is only with great relief that I note that this brilliant Engineer Waqar fellow has not yet found a way to fuel your nuclear-capable missiles using water-kits. I sincerely hope this innovation eludes him.
snigger snigger
Discussing science @ET is the perfect recipe for a good laugh!
A great shame and embarrassment,not because it is or could be a fraud, but the way it is being projected by our media has made it so loud now that the whole world will mock.
@Ghulam Rasool Chandio: come out of it ... Hoodbhoy and Ataur Rehman are not punjabis , ... infact all who are favouring agha are from Punjab ....Grow up you sick head
This is nothing but an extremely innovative pre-election gimmick to give a new though fraudulent 'hope' to the desperate masses, and make then forget their failures in last 4 years.They know how short term the memory of our masses is.
Who cares if after elections the stunt will fail to stand on its feet. With so many Ministers, and the official scientists rallying with it, can't you all see the unseen?
Mr. Hoodboy: An excellent article. However, one doesn't need to do an experiment with generator to know this is a fraud!
A simple explanation of physics would've sufficed. Effectively what the engineer is claiming to do is equal to 'perpetual motion'!
He says he separates Water into Hydrogen & oxygen, and then hydrogen combustion with oxygen (generating water again) gets more energy than what he has put in to breaking up water molecule? So, he starts with a water molecule, ends with water molecule - where did the energy come from?
If he can then its equal to getting energy in perpetuity, without loss of matter! That's against fundamental laws of physics.
The problem with us Pakistanis is that we immediately get on to the political side of the issue. The man has tried something new in Pakistan and indeed has the potential so why not to encourage him to translate this into an efficient one. Did Wright brothers invented the jet plane on the very first attempt?? Was the modern computer just built in one singile piece as we see of today?? Science has evolved over a period of time and we have not yet reached its limits. Laws keep proving right and wrong. Once no body questioned E=mc2 but now people have started questioning it, the universe existed since even but then we discovered that there was a big bang. So what Mr. Waqar needs is an encouragement and who knows that within few years we really come up with some kind of a real invention. Who knows we discover that there was an issue with the law of thermodynamics and now we know a little more than what we previously knew. And Mr. Waqar is not the only one working on the project, there are others as well: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/4271579
I was waiting for your reply Sir, Thank you :)
This man didn't break any law or gone against the law; he just given a new idea to creat energy out of Nature given resource "Water"; ...what are ring-magnets and their function???
THis is the age of precised instruments, just compare the size of CPU 20 years older and new one..can you guys give a ratio of speed between the two...
Sciene is not an object closed in a box..it has limitless rnges on invention and possible improvements.........DON'T STOP LANDING OF NEW IDEAS IN PAKISTAN...GIVE VALUE TO IDEAS..THESE MAY BECOME PRECIOUS GEMS IN FUTURE..
Thank God !! Finally I have read something worthy...
I am sure its all fake. Ridiculous.
See that how our Azad media ... is projecting him.. they have no scientific knowledge at all.
Very unfortunate.
Dear Parvez sir
as an Indian engineer, I can only laugh at your guys.
This man should replace God then... cuz as far as we know even he hasn't created a perpetual motion machine... :D
If not the car, this article has gone ballistic!
. well no one among Dr.Pervaiz hood,, Dr.Atta ,DR AQ, Dr.S.Mubarak have check it in personal and verified its authenticity or of being fraud. We should explore the whole thing in personal before we start being judgmental... All we can do is to hope for the best now and vaqar seems to be better than a lot of us after all he put into it his efforts and that on his own expense not from country's budget
sir you have said that the kit doesn't follow 2nd law of thermodynamics but sorry to say kit has nothing to do with energy. it just supply proper fuel to oxygen ratio in order to run engine and the engine then burns this mixture to provide work and 2nd law of thermodynamic simply states that amount of heat energy obtained by burning fuel cannot be used completely to do a work and some heat is dissipated in environment. so for 2nd law of thermodynamics to be considered we have to study an engine not a kit. and in my opinion if the engine is a simple fuel engine used in cars there should be no problem in running it by a water kit.
"It didn’t matter that the rest of world couldn’t extract energy from water; he had done it" ... correct me if i'm wrong but don't people all around the world extract energy from water. Isn't electricity a form of energy? and building water dams is a way of extracting that energy? I'm no physicist or a scientist, just an economist/historian but then again I didn't say those words. I might be wrong here but just in case i'm not, shouldn't a guy who got his masters and PhD degree from MIT should know about this?
@Sabih Zafar Ullah:
How can you be so sure that Higgs Boson is smaller than Tanzeel's brain? We have some evidence of Higgs Boson but so far none for his intelligence.
Pervez Hoodbhoy until now i thought that you are very intelligent man, but now my views are changed. Engineer of car kit clearly mention that it uses the Battery to break the water and then used the separated hydrogen. You big fool trying to demoralized the Pakistani talent.
Hello "ENGINEERS" Has anyone of you bothered to have a look on that car... or does any institute tried to examine it.. That guy said he had gone to NUST for the certification but they were asking for 5 million rupees.. Bull*... If this kind of technology would have been invented in Germany or Japan or America... Every Fing rule of physics would have been changed yet. But this is done in Pakistan.. n by a guy from no where... Atleast he should be from a very well named Engineering university... But from Khairpur’s polytechnic institute... com' on...
Since the day first I wondered how a man can get more energy by applying lesser energy, and was ashamed when Dr AQ Khan said there was no fraud. Dr Samar however suggested three levels of experiments to prove the theory was working! I think our scientists are not clear on their knowledge else they would never have opted to believe that a certain process could create energy. Creations are absolutely to Allah, none else, but let a nation that can believe double shah feel joy over the kind of imposter in engineering!
I absolutely agree with law of thermodynamics and respect this article and all the comments that are against this water kit! I am not an engineering student but still I believe its not possible. Important question is why can't we have that kit inspected by some top level universities of the country first? And declare it publicly with proof whether its invention or fraud?
As far as, Dr. Abdul Qadeer is concerned he is a great scientist. I saw Hamid Mir's program and DR. AQ Khan has no where favored the invention, infact he has asked Agha Waqar to register for patent if he's confident of this research, which is not wrong at all.
Yes I am surprised by statement from head of the PCSIR, Dr Shaukat Parvaiz as mentioned in the blog.
@Tanzeel: Hey the time you are talking about was when there was no scientific evidences available, now every thing is being tested and retested in laboratory.
Even if car can run from from, it cannot merely run on 100% water only.... It is just against the law of conservation of energy...
being an engineering student I was really confused how it can happen but did not express myself unless I read something, may be there is some new innovation, but it does not seem so...
Well the simple experiment from Dr. Pervaiz can make things clear.
Only thieves and smugglers like Dr Khan and company will support hoax like this...For those who do not believe this as hoax... lets start Pakistani army using this kit for all its battle tanks, trucks, armoured carrier vehicles, F 16,........ Army will save billions.....and May be coalition support fund will be used for construction of bridges, hospitals....
This Hoodby has done nothing in the field of scinece in his whole life but discourage others who graduated from local institutions and done greater work than these so-called scientists
Mr Hoodbhoy misquoted AQ Khan on the fraud wraud statement... instead the statement was issued by Dr Shaukat actually... watchout when you quote on record, Sir!
It looks like I am missing out on something. Didn't watch the whole talk show, no doubt, but what I got was, and correct me if I am wrong, that he is simply using distilled water to produce hydrogen gas - not a biggie; we did it in our labs during Intermediate level education - and is simply using the freshly produced hydrogen gas instead of the CNG cylinder.
@ The critics:
I think that everyone of you should 'technically' investigate the matter yourself before criticizing someone's effort publicly because it may NOT be breaking the Second Law of Thermodynamics! I am thinking on the lines of "conversion of different forms (we'll have to study this in detail) of energy to kinetic energy" even without any outside cheat-kit or whatever, as someone said. The resultant obviously being a "cheaper alternative fuel" and not a "magic kit" with >100% efficiency.
@ The Supporters:
Desperate you're and will probably stay to be for quite some time for solutions to all the problems the country is facing but it doesn't mean that you start going "blah" without "technical verification of a proclaimed technical invention by technical people" and not by Ministers or Cabinet people or by the HEC/PEC (whatever body that was) people at a glance by gauging mileage etc. or the ALWAYS TRUTHFUL MEDIA!
This drama show that only one thing can be done very easily in Pakistan; that is Fraud, as no other Nation has this level of Nonsense to believe such stupid ideas at this mass level.
This drama shows that only one thing can be done succesfully in Pakistan; that Fraud.
For 65 years we waged jihad in Kashmir and sought strategic depth in Afghanistam. We idolised our warriers and marginalized our men of letters ... even percecuted them, like Abdus Salam and many, many others all in the name of religion. A Q Khan was made a national hero ... the horror story is long and sickening.
I think the worst is yet to come.
@Tanzeel: "There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat’ and we all believed in it." What is your source of information?
Not the first time a claim like this has been made and people have jumped on the band wagon. Check out the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jKLRc73L8
Personally, I am not sure if this is possible or not and am not sure how the second law of thermodynamics prevents it. I do know however, that to break the Hydrogen and oxygen bond in water requires immense energy.
@.Tanzeel "The earth is flat" was not based on scientific knowledge whereas second law of thermodynamics is a scientific fact which can even be proved on quantum levels.
There is no such thing as a scientific LAW. Everything is a probabilistic theory at best. Since time has not yet ended, any argument for a law "if A happens, then B happens" will always be 0.99999999999999999999 and never reach certainty point of 1.0, therefore never really achieving the point of it being a scientific "law". There will always be a leap of faith. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Michel Foucault, a prominent philosopher of twentieth century said, "No knowledge is objective". To prove his statement he wrote more than three to four books and successfully elaborated the idea of the flow of knowledge in discourse. For centuries the speed of light was considered the highest travelling velocity but now science itself has enhanced that idea. So instead of blaming others, try to think deeper into things and try to contribute something positive for this already energy starved nation. What if this water kit theory gets proved wrong? It would still be a theory.
Atleast he came up with a complete demonstration on National TV regarding his allegedly exaggerated claims what the writer is doing is much much worse !! Just sarcastic riduculing without having conducting any actual enquiries and asking for a self made critirion to be fullfilled with a prophecy of failure and it's all being a fraud Just cause I Went To MIT !! Not even a mention of How is the project conflicting the 2nd law and what is the scientific basis of your discord is immature and dipicts his superiority complex !!
Dear,
I dont he is right or wrong. but why you all guys are jumping over conclusion, no one has right to say him fraud, untill he is proven wrong.
Dont forget many theories and basic of science become wrong after many years.
The only thing that we need to do here is to adopt professional attitude and do scrutiny of his product, if it geniune , we should apprciate it, if it is fraud , we will kick him off with his product.
Prof. Hoodbhoy's argument is valid if and only if this "inventor" claimed that the battery will electrolyze water- the gases will run the car, and by running the car the battery will be continuously charged. Only, then, we can call it a perpetual machine. No process is 100% efficient.
What Agha Waqar is not telling is the life of the battery, how often it has to be charged "externally" to run the car. Hence we should give Agha Waqar some benefit of doubt :-)
I honestly doubt our nuclear bombs now. If AQ Khan has an intellect of a 4 year old, then I really can't believe whether our bombs work or not.
The educated among the awam are not gullible and stupid. The leaders wiith fake degrees are are GULLIBLE AND STUPID.
Pervez sb, i have always respected your opinions and respected dr Atta for his contributions to the promotion of higher Ed. However, no matter how basic and inviolable the first law is and since the publicity Waqar has received is enormous I feel that someone like Atta should have refuted it practically. His conduct on camera was not nice even if correct. It would be simpler if Atta walked up and tested it on camera and proved it to be fraudulent or inefficient. I would encourage you to do the same rather than writing an article saying what you have said. Even Mubarakmands conduct was better when he took a look at the device in person and then shared his doubts on the success in a polite and learned matter. I believe that this fellow has something. It is not perpetual motion, it is not just the water and it may not be economical in totality. I also thinks that he lacks the ability and training to communicate what he had actually done. Do note that he does not claim perpetual motion.
I hope you all remember gravity operated car made by a Pakistani fellow some time ago. it had a similar media response, now where is it ?
@Albert: "his failure to decipher what is so fraudulent about the kit, "
And what's your evidence that the kit is not fraudulent since it doesn't seem to obey any known laws of physics? Maybe the kit obeys holy laws which can only be deciphered by the "pious" among us.
I was confirm about this news, So didnt pay any attention and was waiting for truth.
@Tanzeel: "There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat’"
That was a "religious" law and not a scientific law. The second law which the author quotes is a "scientific" law meaning its been proved by science many times over in different scenarios. Wonder why you didn't notice this obvious difference or maybe you don't want to since it might clash with some "holy" law or other?
Which this exposé of his utter ignorance of basic science, I wonder if AQ Khan is really the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb or he the step father? Maybe the real father of the bomb is not even in Pakistan or not even Pakistani.
Wow, what a closed mind the author has. Only out of the box thinking leads to new inventions.
Dr A Q KHAN was asked that the claimant might be having connection from the fuel tank. His reply was that ," TANKI MEIN SORAKH KER DEIN". No one will expect such a dumb answer from such a reputed scientist .I need to tell him , DR SAHIB,TANKI MEIN SORAKH KERNE KE ILAWA BHI TARIQA HAY.
After listening to Dr. AQ Khan and other scientists, have a nagging doubt if Pakistan ever has nukes. Or is it the biggest biggest fraud pulled up toll now?
i think this is more disgraceful then the defeat of pakistan's all wars.
@Tanzeel: If you would have done some research, the earth is flat was never a law, it was a belief held by ignorant people. The Earth not being flat fact has been known since the Greeks. And know Earth is round does not sound(it is in fact oblong) dumb because round things are prevalent in nature. You wont find straight lines in nature though.
Instead of calling it a fraud, i think Hoodbhoy should have challenged him in public to use water kit in his car to prove it. That would have sounded a fair deal. All the scientists, politicians, journalists, and car company's representatives who saw the demo didnt call him a fraud. But unfortunately who have never seen the demo, they call the poor guy a fraud. It's illogical and absurd.
i think people of Pakistan should be thankful to him that at least people are discussing on science instead of politics. it has triggered a new debate which is educational, good for students of science.
Very well written by Dr. Hoodbhoy... except that this invention rather violates the First Law of Thermodynamics which in layman terms is that you can not get something out of nothing or the output can never exceed the input. Very similar frauds have been exposed in several countries including the USA and Japan. More so this also exposes our science icons by demonstrating their lack of understanding of the basic laws of physics and puts a serious question on their qualifications (Dr, Masters). Just think of the trust and the responsibility they are carrying...
...we pray to Allah for this poor nation.
Let me get this straight - we have a guy reasoning that he can make a car run by splitting water's molecular bond via electrolysis and the engine can respond to any sort of situation in this. Its utterly stupid.. I will first talk about why. Any vehicle needs a reserve of fuel - be it a horse cart or a motor car, In this case we have a bubbling jug that is dispensing gas at atm pressure - no storage tank and we are supposed to buy that the engine can take it in and burn it efficiently under all conditions (the guy claims that he drove such a car) - HORSE POO. Everyone who has driven cheap box cars of the 70s and 80s with carburettors knows that the engine would falter if the fuel supply for the high throttle opening was reduced. And to use a gas in an engine that requires variable intake of fuel mandates that the gas be stored under pressure to raise volumetric efficiency (not a bubbling jug)
my second point - the 2nd law of thermodynamics - whoever here or in this world states that it can be broken is not dealing with a full deck of cards - in very very basic simplicity take the human body - its a fantastic machine - it takes energy to work it - lets say you feed on something that has X amount of energy - you then work out to spend X+X amount of energy - Now if you think the 2nd law is false then your body should not lose any of its reserve energy (body mass or fat if you please) if you eat less and work more.
If you experience that you lose body mass (reserve energy) if you eat less and work more then the law is true..
This fits into this discussion HOW - the energy required to break the bond of water molecule is higher than the resultant energy that the produced fuel will move machine with.
Running cars on water is no new discovery; buses are running on purely water engine in Canada for more ten years. l know running cars on purely water is possible and has been done. He is not fraud and stop going banana over this. Anyone with brains and knowledge of electronics and mechanics can easily reproduce this.
Very well written by Dr Hoodbhoy except that the claimed invention violates the First Law of Thermodynamics which in basic layman terms is that you cannot get something out of nothing or input cannot exceed output. Very similar frauds have been exposed in several countries including USA and Japan. More so this episode has also exposed our science icons who with their comments have demonstrated that they have no understanding of the basic laws of physics which are taught at the elementary level. We should seriously think about their qualifications (Dr.,Masters) and the positions they are enjoying.
Thank you very much sir! You really spoke my heart out!
well guys science is all about skeptism, If he is claiming it dont jump into conclusion whether he is fraud or not let him give time and space to prove himself by the way fraud doesnt stand long let him to prove himself or else he will be no where
I suspect that most of the comments praising H are his students flattering him in an effort to remain in his good book for marks or some other greed and due to this personal benefit talking against other scientists. I don't know whether water-kit is a real thing or a fraud but the guy can be tested in a single day when he might have been asked to put his machine in H or AR's car and drove him for a day with the presence of whole media but the response of AR, head of RESEARCH towards a new research is childish.On a personal note, I will again state that this guy and his water-kit may be a fraud but at the same time I don't agree with H and AR about the violation of any law of physics. This I can discuss with both H and AR.
Can't believe how dumb we Pakistanis are.. I am a Mechanical Engineering student studying abroad and let me assure you Mr. Waqar Ahmed is a total hoax.. The cars piston are synchronized with the specific rate of combustion of petrol.. That is the very reason you cannot put diesel, jet fuel or canola cooking oil in a petrol engine. How can you even think about putting hydrogen in there.
@Zunaira: These are NOT man-made laws. These are natural laws discovered by man over years as and when mankind achieved enough knowledge and understanding, examples, Law of Gravitation, Law of Conservation of Mass (and Energy), Laws of Thermodynamics. In scientific terms 'Law' has a special meaning in scientific nomenclature, e.g. 'Theory', 'Principle'. Once a theory passes certain scientific tests it becomes a universal Law and cannot be broken. An idea or device which claims to violate a scientific Law does not need to be examined. These Laws existed long before we existed on this planet/universe. For example, the Earth revolves around the Sun due to the Law of Gravitation and Laws of Motion.
Hoodbhoy is a rude boy!
While normally Prof Hoodbhoy comes out as an anti-religion hate monger but he is spot-on on this issue.
I would like to point out though that Agha Waqar is not only challenging 2nd law of thermodynamics as pointed out by Dr Hoodbhoy, he is also challenging the first law of thermodynamics.
@Tanzeel: Earth being flat was never a scientific law, it was a belief of ignorant man.
Looks like the writer has a couple of petrol pumps and CNG stations and is worried that they might close down because of the water kit invented by Agha Waqar. Why don't you people just shut up and wait for couple of days. Time will tell for itself.
didnt hoodbhoy himself believe the nuetrinos at CERN had broken the speed of light? did that make him a 'serious scientist'?
what a poor article. professor sahab explain the 2nd law of thermodynamics fully yeah? if we want to see fun to be poked at others we can go to the 'religious' section of the tribune.
@Tanzeel: The "Earth is flat" was NOT a law. It was a hypothesis (an untested claim).
Greeks knew back in the time of Aristotle (B.C) that the Earth was round.
The "earth was flat" came out in times of ignorance (dark ages, 9th century AD) and was a result of a bunch of people believing in a couple of idiots (much like what is happening here).
@Ghulam Rasool Chandio: Oh for God's sake don't make this a racial discrimination issue!
@HH: A.Q. Khan is a trader not a scientist.
Laws aside, could someone explain whether the HHO gas produced can be combusted to an extent that would help run the car. Hypothetically speaking can one litre of water produce enough HHO to power a vehicle for 40 kilometres (say we used a HHO gas cylinder)? So far there's references to theory and affirmation of them same, however, there's no clarity on where the process should fail at a basic level. I presume it is implied that there isn't enough energy being used or passed on to the water to produce HHO itself? Or it just can't be produced?
I hope someone can answer the two points I have raised, thanks. Lastly, it'd be better that anyone who has an objection explains their points in the physical realm as well, instead of keeping their thoughts on the theoretical aspects alone. As someone who hates to pay for gas, this topic is like fresh air. I only worry that this may propel the prices of distilled water to the range of PKR. 100 or so in a matter of years!
Only time would tell who is right and who is wrong. Expectations have really been raised through media. But still Too many ambiguities. It will be a blunder if it turns to be fake.
I already knew that this could be fraud!
@Tanzeel: Theories in science and in any domain can be challenged but not the laws since its proven theory. you should be aware that theories and laws are different not the same.
@Farzana Versey: "In India, we have many such ‘miracles’ – water spouting from deities/shrines."
True but cabinet does not have 4 meetings to find a way to replicate such miracles, not do top ranked scientists affirm these miracles.
There is no harm that gthis man dreamed. But for the cabinet to meet 4 times based on this absurd dream? Really! @Haris Potential energygets converted to kinetic energy gets converted to electrical energy in the dam. There is no comparison between how electricity is generated in dams and how supposedly it is being generated in this car. The 2nd law of thermodyanmics is not violated by dam.
@Tanzeel:
‘earth is flat’ was NOT a law. It was THEORY. Theories may be proven wrong. Name one law that is proven wrong.
Instead of pulling this chap to pieces, i challenge the decriers to search for this topic that was published in the 1960s in the UK , It was tried and tested at that time and featured on a well know TV program of that time, As far as i can remember is was hushed up very quickly, rights possibly bought by an oil company for obvious reasons.
Why do we Pakistanis believe in such unbelievable things? Answer is simple. We have been trained to blindly believe unquestioningly.
1) we believe that we have Arab ancestry with a culture distinct from our eastern neighbor. 2) we believe that our religion is peaceful (!) and every problem we have is created by hindus, jews, and Christians. 3) we believe that our version of our religion is the only true path and we are the true and pure country according to Allah.
All of these take some level of idiocy and ignorance to believe as the opposite is true in strong terms. Given this, not believing in thermodynamics is a small matter.
No surprise that people like Hoodbhoy and Att-ur-Rehman are against this guys inventions. These are the people who have never tested Engineer Waqar's inventions and they may be a bit jealous because they could not produce such a thing but this chap from a small town did. I am astonished at the amount of support for Hoodbhoy's article and goes to show how stupid and Ignorant the society has become. If it doesn't go according to the Laws of physics so what? If this guy has invented some thing that can benefit the humanity then he should be supported and appreciated.
Copying from your link... " At first, it sounded like a joke: a self-styled engineer, trained in Khairpur’s polytechnic institute, claims to have invented a ‘water kit’ enabling any car to run on water alone. It didn’t matter that the rest of world couldn’t extract energy from water; he had done it " what is the JOKE here? self styled ? that he is trained in Khairpur? or he has claimed something which the rest of the world couldn't do it? that shows how we rate our people and their efforts and thats the reason we are third world country... Author should have also provided a list of nations, countries and institutes which have license to claim something big and which will not SOUND LIKE A JOKE to him.... may be a US national with a degree from Howard or MIT has right to claim without sounding it like a JOKE..
@Tanzeel: There was no law "That the Earth was flat". People of religion said that the Earth is flat and everyone believed it. A law of Physics is something that has to be clearly proven to be considered a law. Which all the existing laws have done.
Well, this Water Kit fraud will go away like the posterior smell, but, what about the Pakistan's Scientists, Ancors and the Politicians, can someone also whither them away in the same manner. Well written article, love it.
Guys! Pennsylvania State University scientist has confirmed that salt water can be burned when RF is applied to it. Here is the link to the National Geographic article.
I remember i saw this concept of obtaining vast energy from water in the plot of the movie Chain Reaction starring Keanu Reeves, In which a scentist does discover cheap and non polluting energy from water and the govt puts a stop to this coz it doesnt want the oil companies to go bust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChainReaction(film)
The problem is not bout running the car on water fuel. The fundamental problem is that a machine cannot move perpetually without the use of outside force. Thats what the real problem. Also even 10 grade chemistry wil tell you that the electrrolysis of distilled water in not possible
for those looking for theories, here is one.
http://www.kodasplace.com/more/watermotors.html
nicely explains how to increase efficiency of electrolysis.
if one can make electrolysis very efficient, and produce enough hydrogen then keep in mind hydrogen oxygen are the rocket fuel. A 12V car battery can not produce enough power to move cars, however it can produce enough power to break apart hydrogen and oxygen. If this process is made efficient by adding other factors such as ultrasonic vibration and radio waves to the electrolysis, the entire process can be made efficient. If enough gas can be produced, then cars can run. Need more gas for bigger engines, use higher voltage batteries. It will be interesting to know the volume of gas produced and the volume required to run the engine. I guess this will be answered with time.
Dear Prof Pervez Hoodbhoy,
I agree with what you have explained but its easy to humiliate. Can you please also publish an article in Express tribune an article about your contributions to science (Physics), number of PhD you produced during your carrier.
Professor Hoodhoby is my old teacher and colleague and a smart scientist. This is an excellent article and I expected him to do that. Their claim that cars runs purely on water is scientifically not correct. Energy can be converted from one form to another but can be created and this is the Law of conservation of energy. There are already cars running on hydrogen. Last year I was almost going to buy this manufactured by BMW. the only problem is that there are not too many places one can buy hydrogen fuel. These guys from Khairpur made a kit to make hydrogen by using the standard technique using a battery. Once the battery will run out than it needs charging and for that you need electricity. In reality the cars runs on battery but directly using electric motors is more efficient, and for that you need different cars which already are selling in the market too. Electric cars are good for environment but what we can do with millions of cars that are on the road. Well there technique may be a solution if properly implemented in a safe manner because hydrogen is quite unsafe. I do not agree with lofty claims of changing the basic laws of physics but I appreciate their effort in making kits that can be used instead of combustible gases to hydrogen which is good to reduce pollution. If the electricity is made by water or coal than it will be cheaper than petrol. It may be feasible to use these kits if properly designed and implemented just like we use CNG kits. I wish them good luck.
if you had any idea or any clue about a thermodynamic system you would not have written such a naive comment @Tanzeel:
This person says "out media, our nation" seems pakistani then he must answer one thing why he is abroad and teaching western people? why not in pakistan? . . I say when Einstein gave his theories whole Newton's physics was fall in basket. may be he invented new thing,
This project will be claimed as a fraud and hence there will be again durgat of us (incl. politicians,scientists and journalists) in Meray mutabiq by Hasan nisar .......... Logo tayyar ho jayoo
Hudbhoy says" Agha promised a new Pakistan with limitless energy, no need for petrol or gas, and no more loadshedding. For an energy starved nation, it is a vision of paradise". Does really author know that he is exaggerating the claim. May be he is too emotional. Water knit experiements are available right on the net. May be hudbhoy had no time to search it before he wrote the lenghty rehtoric. So far as Atta Rehman 's point of view is concerned he has not physically seen the vehicle nor hudbhoy. I think, its not them but its their pseudo pride which is badly injured by water-knit inventor.
@Tanzeel: plz listen to him The inventions of water kit might not be very new idea, but one can see a few phenomena in our nation 1. The extremist behaviour on both the sides i.e. Supporters and oppositions. I myself have listened to both the parties , half of Dr. Atta's comments were technically correct when he was talking of adding electrolytes to water for hydrolysis, but when he started about the law of conservation of energy he touched upon a field which the" inventor" never touched or claimed. As the inventor is not very good in english so he could not pick the point and went on for arguements, 2. The holders of scientific thought r just blind followers of what some "Gora" said a few years back, and never have the courage to think scientifically or think out of the box. Scientific thinking is not about holding to some old thoughts because some one had won a nobel prize and his thoughts r not taken care of. 3. The water kit may or may not be the solution of our problems, but a lot of energy and resources r wasted just for the sack of nothing,,, let some other technical people join our "semi literate" engineer, who got educated in khyr pur,, the writer's style of criticism looks like as if a person taught in oxford or harvard will come with revelations that will always be correct,, let other people join him and explore possibilities of extracting some hydrogen from water while partially some of the energy comes from traditional sources...... 4. We as a nation r slaves of our own comfort zone,, let's scientifically and technically evaluate the claims of the person and then decide, if I have learnt a law of thermodynamic 20 years back and tha Law has never helped me come with some new idea, let others who haven't memorized that law challenge it and work on it.. Again I am not saying that this miracle has taken place, I myself doubt technially the hydrolysis process with out the addition of electrolytes into water, but let's not blame people for fraud and fake things,, let the system test it,, if it works well and good otherwise continue search for other sources but to be " Faqir of a Lakeer" is not the way of living nations,,
Hoodbhoy is just jealous. He is probably a RAW agent out to spoil Pakista'n's image.
One thing is certain though.
Pakistan is looking for quick fixes.
One guy talks of Pakistani flag on Lal Qila, another talks of eliminating corruption in 90 days and another talks of a car on water.
And Pakistanis buy them eagerly.
This is good news for Indian economy because as long as Pakistan looks for quick fixes, we don't have to worry about them competing us in any field.
Hoodbhoy, I was expecting your's reaction and there you are! Brilliant slap on ghairat brigade and thier students runing in millions. thanks and regards.
Hush, the trolls are watching and reading it too, they might try themselves and bingo, we will be at the mercy of India even for trickle of water. If AQ Khan OKd it then watch out others, they will be sending RAW,CIA, MOSSAD agents and of course don't forget the Brits. What is with our people. they have stooped so low or just looking for any good news how fraudulent it could be. Can you guys sent one to me, I will be able to show off to the ignorant, uneducated Americans and say look what we got and you don't. we are not only famous for terrorist but our cars runs by the water. Dr.Hoodbhoy, this nation don't deserve you like they did not deserve Dr.Salam. Thank you for your services.
Those ,who believes that running a car 100 % on Water is a absurd joke,actually lives in the heavens of fool.They either have not bothered to research about it or just followed those scientist ,who even are not chemist with the exception of Dr Att-ur-Rehman,who appears to believe that Scientific Laws can not be wrong.This is truly unbelievable at first stance ,but believe me this technology existed seriously and have reproduced by many open source Engineers,but never evolved in the presence of Powerful Oil Mafia ,who rules the world Economy and have always suppressed use of Free Energy and Push those researchers and inventors into darkness ,who successfully Practically demonstrated their invention working.I strongly suggest to come up with some research before declaring it a Fraud.
@Ghulam Rasool Chandio: No, that is not why. I belong to the SAME backward are. But I am against it because it is physically impossible. At the very least there needs to be rigorous testing done before this can be believed.
What am confused about is the fact of so many people in here apprecitating what the writer has written. He has said notthing different to what Dr:Atta has said, explaning the law of thermo dynamics, and have challanged the engineer to test some generators. So whats the big deal init. Thats what Dr.Atta has said to the inventor of that kit. Guys you need to relax. Rather than critsing him, the countrys scientist you need to accept the reality and the guy himself has accepted Dr.Atta challange. You haters need to relax, sit back and wait what happens, and thumbs up for the write for writing such piece of crap, just shows where we actually stand as a nation!
Here is another guy in USA who did water as fuel back in 2008, Denny Klien. his website
http://www.hytechapps.com/
and his demo of HHO in action in a FOX tv program
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rb_rDkwGnU
Every one knows electrolysis, but the catch is to do it in a way to produce results which can run engines.
Why can't Agha do it ?
How did A Q Khan even build nukes for Pakistan?
Watching his interview with Hamid Mir, it's obvious that this guy is a fool. He maybe a fool, but he must be a good politician, otherwise he wouldn't have achieved all the fame that he has today.
To Pakistanis A Q Khan is a Hero. To rational Pakistanis, A Q Khan is a fraud.
@Tanzeel: Please get your facts straight. The belief in "flat earth" was never a law. Nor was it borne out by myriads of scientific experiments and inventions. The Laws of Thermodynamics are not as fragile as the Flat Earth Theory.
Professor hoodbhoy has a track record of criticizing things just for the sake of criticism. I ask him, have you personally witnessed the Engr. Agha Waqar's demonstration? Or you are just another person who just want to earn cheap fame by just criticising things?
One can find many examples from history where uneducated amateurs did invent extraordinary things, either through trial and error, or merely by chance!
@Saud: first the link you quoted is from a blog. fraud in sceince is something not new. and japaneese are not the chose ones
Good initiative Pervaiz Sb Sir. I am a Mechanical design engineer and since last three days i am trying best to teach emotional ignorant peoples about the scam of Agha sb on different blogs . The claim of Agha sb are all confusing from start, he says he is doing electrolysis of distilled water, using capacitors to trigger resonance and feeding hydrogen in standard engines to run it without modification, and best of all he is creating energy at least 75 times of input. Beside the fact first law & second law cannot be violated, distilled water can’t be electrolyzed, capacitor don’t work on pure DC so they can’t generate wave form to create resonance. To run 30KW engine (cultus) it is required at least 100KW of hydrogen power which Agha sb is generating through electrolysis from a generator/battery on board which can deliver maximum 0.4KW. So he is generating 30KW from 0.4KW (more than 100% perpetual motion). Standard engines also cannot run on hydrogen without modification in aspiration system, ignition and valve timings. A standard cultus engine would consume 700gm of hydrogen to cover 40km but in Agha sb case it is consuming only 100gm. Every thing is marvelous. It is not much concern that media has created a hype of some illusionist; it is more concerned that a person is raping science & engineering and we have much silence on other end. The degrees of scientists who favored the Agha should be rechecked
Mr Agha Waqar can be Zohra Fona of 2012.
And all these years i had thought that its the combustion of WATER that helps to move the mammoth Turbines at the Thermal Power Stations or was it???!!! And off-course Dr. AQ Khan and Dr. Sarmad are Dumb and Sir its only you and Dr. Atta the wise!!! Is it so? How can Dr. AQ khan not consider the ABC of physics and still develop an atomic bomb( though with a team)!?
Our professor Hoodbhoy is highly respectable. But Prof. Hoodbhoy's argument is valid if and only if this "inventor" claimed that the battery will electrolyze water- the generated gases will run the car, and by running the car the battery will be continuously charged. Hence the perpetual machine cycle. Only then, we can call it a perpetual machine. No process is 100% efficient. What Agha Waqar is not telling is the life of the battery, how often it will be charged externally to run the car? Hence there is some room for him to be genuine. There is no violation of any law of thermodynamics if the battery is being charged externally, when needed. Is this a feasible idea, that remains to be tested.
Agha Waqar has tried to convert car engine into steam engine by using electrical energy. Dr. A. Q Khan talked in Hamid Mir's program like a lay man. He spent more time to indirectly abuse Dr. Samar by refering Thar coal projects.
@hasan
Are you seriously kidding me? What kind of science are you studying? Joe's Cell has definitively proven to be a scam by academics.
It is impossible to create a device running solely on water as fuel. Stop being stupid. The Second Law of Thermodynamics in inviolable.
Its not even about the second law that is surprising to me, now I am not an engineering or physics student, but when I first heard of this, my first question was how is it that someone who found out a way to derive energy out of water isn't getting any foreign attention, because there are hundreds of scientists that are trying to research the same subject for many years now, and how come it received no attention. I guess when we are in times of trouble we feel the need to ignore logical answers with miraculous beliefs.
@Zunaira: Laws are not made by man. They are just discovered by us. Laws are the natural phenomenon which are made by nature not by any human. So if any one says that he has broken these laws then he is going against the nature.
The only thing that comes to mind is that this man who comes from MIT and have taught in the relevant field for 14 years would not bother to go and do what Agha Waqar is asking everyone including Attaurehman i.e. "Please come on tele and prove me wrong with your expensive education". This is the level of reluctance by our intelligentsia for finding truth. The writer is sneering at the whole Pakistani nation for day dreaming due to the energy crisis but he will not do what the right course of action would have been in any other country if such a thing had to happen ever. If Agha Waqar is yearning for cheap popularity as the writer claims, so is the writer for leaving everything aside and writing just an article to earn a few bucks from the paper. Another blunder that the writer makes in contrast with Mr. Attaurehman is that both are referring to two different laws of thermodynamics. Watch capital talk of July 31 on youtube.com. I am also of the view that this would be hardly possible especially because of the energy and circumstances required for electrolysis yet the way we are handling this issue is pathetic.
As far as the program that I saw and with my little knowledge, Dr. Sammar did not seem to agree to the complete idea and he was continuously saying that there must be some other element involved or some formula which engineer waqar wants to keep private.... So I dont think he blindly accepted the idea....
There is a big difference between a law and a theory in science just as between reason and your belief. You can question a belief but not a fundamental law of science. That's why theories may be upgraded in science but not the law. All the discoveries and inventions are bound to be based on a fundamental law except that of God. Now, we desperately need to make study of fundamental laws of science compulsory instead of Pak. Study and probe into the belief of our being a 'nuclear armed country' as our so called builder of the bomb sides with the pseudoscience. We must know as to really we can make a functional nuclear device on our own.
People, The first law of thermodynamics pertaining to conservation of energy is NOT violated in this case as EVERYONE is ruling out water to be a source of Energy.
Cars run on hydrogen, they've been running in several countries.
Water, when broken down can be separated into hydrogen and oxygen. THAT hydrogen CAN be theoretically be used to power the car. The only question is if the power required to break the water (electrolysis) is small enough to regenerate via the car's generator.
Further to the comment, there are only two processes that can be explained one is fusion and other fission. If this guy invented what he claims to be, then dudes, we have a fission process replica.
There is a saying that man needed God and he invented one but i dont agree with it.miracles happens but certainly not in this style. we in science still can not prove many things but atleast what is proved is proved with logic and experiment. frankly seems like a stunt planned by current government, this man and group will be killed sooner and later and blame would be that PPP had a break through in energy and someone got jealous and below it up. i am 100% sure this is a fraud to an extent that what is being claimed can not be true. i am just waiting to see how this turns up to be. I have not seen the video of demo of the scientists who saw this, i know no one from lums went to inspect. i know car was brought in and may be designed to give illusion that its working on pipes (by the way cng and hydrogen pipe can be just sui gas pipes). i am sure there is a higgen linkage to petrol to engine. this is all a big joke to the intelligence (what ever remian) in our country. May God help us. \but in the end i would like to say at least it has given us a hope, a supply of oxygen to our masses to breath at least for some time.
Simply, mathematical calculations were required to prove the guy wrong instead of using some abstract explanations based upon a law. Just mathematically prove that the energy required to split the water into oxygen and hydrogen is greater than the energy produced by igniting the two, hence the the guy is wrong, but still the word fraud is not suitable as this might not be his intentions.
Why don't we get that Mr. Agha Waqar has at least given new idea. If it is acknowledged by Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan, Dr. Samar Mubarak the most dignified and practical scientists then Pervez Hoodbhoy is not more competent then both of these scientists. Scientific laws change such as for few decades we were believing theory of evolution (Darwin) which became baseless after the appearance of genetics.The problem is in our country our few physics PhDs want to discourage this idea solely because Mr. Agha Waqar has done Diploma of engineering from Khairpur. If he has done BE from USA then this Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy would have written an article with lot of appreciation etc. Its like bill gates who did not have degree of software engineeringniversity even then they built Microsoft........... only person who was ambitious about the software development, he had not a degree, remember Mr. Pervez Hoodbhoy.
Why don't we get a conference where all the engineers, scientists meet together and discuss this idea of water kit. The truth will be there.
I wish some day some Pakistani would also invent a kit making a body run from human fossil. Bravo Pakistani leaders and the Government !
A very condescending article.Agha Khan may not have had his "years at MIT" but he has certainly contributed his time to the progress of the nation. The 2nd law of thermodynamics only states that the creation of net energy is impossible in such an electrolysis governed reaction.A simpler way to reach this conclusion would be to look up the law of conservation of energy ; However, that's a little common and might not confuse the people as much as the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Here's what happens, you put petrol and you combust it with oxygen, the internal energy of the chemicals(reactants) changes/decreases and this lost energy=enthalapy change which drives the car.In the case of a water, the energy we supply is electric.Electrolysis is used to create Hydrogen gas which is combusted in place of petrol.Similarly, we do not create energy; we simply catalyse the conversion of energy from one form to another using electricity.
YOU GET HYDROGEN; YOU BURN IT ; YOU GET ENERGY. Best of luck to Agha Khan and his team!
Trying to undermine every true hero of Pakistan... eh Hoodbhoy?
Scientist Agha Waqar needs our support against the enemies of Pakistan!
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/ http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fuelcell.shtml http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/ http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/futuretense/2012/05/hydrogenfuelcellvehiclesandtheobamaadministration_.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/fuel-cells.html
Pervaiz hood, dear i m not addressing u as prof or doctor b/c of the simple fact that u r totally ignorant about science. Hydrogen fuel cell technology is not new and cars running on water is not new technique. I have embedded some links, go and study them. This the research done by car manufacturing companies and US state dept of energy and after reading them , then give ur comments. I dnt know how u guys drag 2nd law of thermo here.
@Tanzeel People 'believed' the earth was round. People have 'proven' the law of thermodynamics. See the error in the premise on which your argument is based?
@hasan Hoodbhoy holds a doctorate in Physics and doesn't need to use commercial search engines to investigate scientific truth and you being a student of science and I use the term student very loosely here shouldn't use Google etc either
@Albert Aap kee logic ko salam.
The whole idea of the water run car sounds too good to be true.whether it functions in accordance with the basic laws of physics or not,we will find out soon.But calling the guy a fraud even before investigating the supposedly water kit is not fair in my opinion. After all this person is not a an engineer or a scientist, he just holds a diploma. Its the duty of the engineers to review his invention and give their verdict.After all he demonstrated it on the national tv, passing judgements without examination is not fair even if the idea as foolish as this one .
Dear Author. i read your article, and found interesting, with all due respect, i want to share some knowledge which i have about these water kit, this water kit word is not new for the world, its being implemented in many countries by the car owners, not commercially, but for self usage, and its running successfully. the theory behind this can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen and also if you want to buy complete HHO (Water) Kit with complete guidance for your car you can easily found it by Google, just write "HHO KIT". The purpose of sharing this comment is just to inform the people that HHO fuel cells are exist, science has no limit, its beyond the fiction. (sorry for my grammar mistakes)
Thanks & Regards Noman Ahmed Qureshi
Hoodbhoy nailed all these self-made and ignorant so called "Journalists" who say the word of God now and whatever they say, Ignorant nation listens. I also feel pity for Pakistani Engineers who actually supported Agha Waqar. Even though i am not an engineer but my logic didn't allow me to believe on Agha once but how can engineers believe on him? that is sad. That shows what we learn in our universties and colleges.
@Syed Ali Raza: @hasan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX2RxlXCZKA
SIT BACK AND ENJOY!
Hydrogen fuel from Water using solar power.
If you're so desperately concerned about our national image, for God's sake, stop ruining it further. Every country on the planet has it's fair share of such issues. Take it as one instead of publicizing the whole thing and making a laughing stock out of this nation and it's people.
Shame on all of you.I dont know about this guy if is right or wrong but you can easily make HHO with water which is highly combustible gas and you only need little bit of energy to do so.So open your eyes all of you and google some stuff before you say something.
Pakistan Zindabad.
@Syed Ali Raza: Splitting Water and using the hydrogen would be a whole lot easier, if governments let us get on with it. TRUST ME! :)
@Umair Usman:
Bhai, I am also a diploma holder (and B- Tech too), please do not start the Diploma & B-Engg. war here again.
Only Media has made it a drama otherwise its only a good advancement in Water Kit (Hydrogen fuel cell).
It's only a Water Kit, by chance or I would like to say accidentally become more efficient, but it couldn't be 100% efficient.
I guess it a battery which is the source of energy in this case. Energy stored in battery is being utilized for hydrolysis process of water kit and battery isn't being recharged by the hydrogen output of this water kit. Perhaps the battery is being charged while this car is running of petrol or CNG.
I am very sad to see the way this (so called science) matter is being handed in our country.
http://www.zemtv.com/2012/08/02/prime-time-rana-mubasher-another-water-fuelled-car-by-engr-muhammd-qamar-khan-2nd-august-2012/ Ik aur inventor
hmm ...
I am on stage where this experiment is really matters for me as student and educational research with its boundaries, we can hope that as before ( Dr Abdul Salam ) was awarded as noble award, we have to proof our self we are best in world.
Please request to everyone don't dis-hurt nation with fake stories and experiments, try to listen each other with respect and knowledge, dont fight with each on basis of knowledge, as my Allah already said : i had mad Man Kind Supreme to others, some time invention are GOD gifted. best of luck for those who are working for Making Pakistan Better Country.
I am thinking it important at this time to explain the Water Fuel Kit technology of Agha Waqar, as I have learnt from the Agha Waqar's TV programs, as follows: Resonance is the most powerful phenomenon in the Science. If resonance be applied to any force, effect of the force will increase hundreds of times of the original force (electrolysis), although the energy used will be almost same as applying only this simple force (electrolysis without resonance). Using the same technique, Agha Waqar produced huge amount of Hydrogen through very small force from battery. Therefore he converted the static energy of the Water into the kinetic energy from Hydrogen burning to run the Car and return back the small applied force to the battery too. This is exactly according to the law of conservation of energy.
I agree totally with Hasan above. Of course you can run a car from water!!
Stanley Meyer, Dr Ghulam Sarwar and many many MANY more. Petroleum industry would kill to make sure that this tech doesn't catch on in a hurry. So negative media campaigns against the idea is not exactly going to weigh on too many people's conscience as far as they are concerned.
My guess the petroleum will want Hydrogen technology to come from Petroleum and Natural Gas rather than from WATER. Policy makers are paid handsome salaries from this industry, so of course they become biased towards the notion of the petroleum option being more sound. Therefore, this is the route car manufacturers will take as a result too.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c66d6bfc-67aa-11e1-978e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz22QLoKfnd
The author can speak for himself when he say that 'we live in an age of Jahilliyah'!
I REALLY DO ENVY THOSE WHO RUN THEIR CARS ON WATER. IT IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN PETROL! ;)
God bless us all and have mercy on our souls, Ameen.
There is a big difference between a theory and a law just as between reason and religion. We can question a theory but not a fundamental law. All the inventions and discoveries, except that of God, were, and will be, based on a scientific law. What we need desperately now is that we must make compulsory the study of fundamental laws of science instead of Pak. Study and probe weather we really have devised, on our own, a functional nuclear device as we claim to have demonstrated in May, 1998.
@yasir I never seen any other country news paper making fun of there own country the way E,T does shamefully.
I agree totally with Hasan above. Of course you can run a car from water!!
Stanley Meyer, Dr Ghulam Sarwar and many many MANY more.
Petroleum industry would kill to make sure that this tech doesn't catch on in a hurry. So negative media campaigns against the idea is not exactly going to weigh on too many people's conscience as far as they are concerned.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c66d6bfc-67aa-11e1-978e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz22QLoKfnd
My guess the petroleum will want Hydrogen technology to come from Petroleum and Natural Gas rather than from WATER. Policy makers are paid handsome salaries from this industry, so of course they become biased towards the notion of that option being more sound. Therefore this is the route car manufacturers will take as a result too.
The author can speak for himself when he say that 'we live in an age of Jahilliyah'!
I REALLY DO ENVY THOSE WHO RUN THEIR CARS ON WATER. IT IS MUCH CHEAPER THAN PETROL! ;)
God bless us all and have mercy on our souls, Ameen.
Yes hoodbhoy..i always criticise ur criticism but this time u done it right..its a big fraud..and Gov will allocate budget in the name of project and fill up their pockets...
Dr Samar Mubarakmand replied without hesitation: “jee haan, bilkul ho sakta hai” (yes, absolutely possible). For his part, Hamid Mir asked Dr AQ Khan if there was any chance of this being a fraud. The response was clear: “Main nay apnay level per investigate kiya hai aur koi fraud waraud nahi kiya hai”......I wish Pakistanis would open their eyes to these two self-serving frauds. All they care about is themselves. AQ got into a bad spot before he could milk his fame but Mayanaz Sainsdan # 2 is slowly spreading his tentacles into Reqo Dik (mining) as there is big money involved there. He has also appointed himself Charman of Thar Coal Energy Board. As a nuclear physicist I wonder why he thinks he is a mining expert - be it coal or copper/ gold?
The best part about this article is that dr pervez wrote without meeting that guy mr Agha and even without looking at his invention. Our problem is that We close our hearts and minds if we have been to MIT and done Phd. We don't want to see the inventions even they have been claimed wrongs. This thought of showing ourselves science gods should be criticized. I would request mr pervez to at least have a ride with mr Agha.
Good initiative Pervaiz Sb Sir. I am a Mechanical design engineer and since last three days i am trying best to teach emotional ignorant peoples about the scam of Agha sb on different blogs . The claim of Agha sb are all confusing from start, he says he is doing electrolysis of distilled water, using capacitors to trigger resonance and feeding hydrogen in standard engines to run it without modification, and best of all he is creating energy at least 75 times of input. Beside the fact first law & second law cannot be violated, distilled water can’t be electrolyzed, capacitor don’t work on pure DC so they can’t generate wave form to create resonance. To run 30KW engine (cultus) it is required at least 100KW of hydrogen power which Agha sb is generating through electrolysis from a generator/battery on board which can deliver maximum 0.4KW. So he is generating 30KW from 0.4KW (more than 100% perpetual motion). Standard engines also cannot run on hydrogen without modification in aspiration system, ignition and valve timings. A standard cultus engine would consume 700gm of hydrogen to cover 40km but in Agha sb case it is consuming only 100gm. Every thing is marvelous. It is not much concern that media is created a hype of some illusionist; it is more concerned that a person is raping science & engineering and we have much silence on other end. The degrees of scientists who favored the Agha should be rechecked
I dont think we should wait for nuclear scientist to prove this wrong. Any student of mechanical or even electrical engineering should know its fake. Its simple and straight forward, u just cannot go against basics laws of physics. Majority pakistanis lack basic scientific knowledge and this is worrying me. We would be left far behind the world and the world will laugh at us. The people who say, keep your mind open, well, all i can say is they also need to get educated. you should keep your mind open, but there are limitations. This is so basic, there is no way it is possible.
stop arguing over it . let that man demonstrate. :) give him a chance as "imran khan is demanding" :-p
@chandio: Dear I am very disappointed by your comments that this guy is being bashed just because of his ethnicity. I regret that people from Sindh always bend arguments towards provincialism rather than logic. Whatever Mr. Waqar has done, shall be evident and exposed within no time. He will be a hero of all of us(Punjabis included) if his idea works well. Kindly we have suffered too much due to ethnicity conflict, let us not do it in this pure technological question.
Hoodbhoy sounds like old church and very desperate that he is only witty person in physics after dr atta u rehman...... i see nothing practical evidence in hoodbhoy article except one thing never challenge laws of thermodynamics??? Why? Agha Waqar's car runs at least and no one has challenged that car doesn't work? I think Agha Waqar work needs attention, it may be a breakthrough in physics! For hoodbhoy; u may hv said same words for thomas edison who was educated in no big college or school....
@JCD: Dear all if this was fake then how was he able to run the car. What were all those professors and head of renowned institutions doing there. I am not an engineer but what i understand is that all those who oppose him mean that " the energy required to break water into hydrogen and oxygen is more than that which is produced by burning hydrogen in the engine chamber" If this is so then the car should not run at all or for a short distance (battery). But according to him he has been driving the car for last six months. Now the other possibility that he tricked all of them standing there and used some secret fuel. but then what were those scientists doing there. lets look at the other side "the energy produced in the chamber by burning hydrogen is much more than that used to break water into H2 and O". He must have used some secret catalyst in the electrolysis process or there might be that very minute quantity of mater must be changing into energy in the burning chamber. or the energy stored in the water when water was made by combining hydrogen and oxygen during early days of earth creation is now used. One thing i know is that scientist have tried for decades to find this magic catalyst. Can someone please further clarify
im a medical scientist and dont know much about this much talked about second law ... all i know that knowldge and theories become obsolete v fast ..... this guy drove a car in front of all of us on tv and many car experts including suzuki ppl confirmed that besides the water kit there was no other source of energy ... if the guy has come up with something how can u totally reject him using such harsh language... theories come and theories go ... many treatments that i studied as a student 5 years back for a condition have now become contraindicated and its criminal to give them to a patient ... so u shud be open to ideas and new inventions .... im surprised whats making these scientists react so aggressively
Well, we need to realize the burden of Proof, which is on the person who claims. But 1st need to deny it.
No one has denied it practically, is this really so much hard to investigate it. I would suggest the writer should go and investigate it practically rather writing articles here.
Everybody can balm but to go and fix the matter is real achievement.
Thank You
Hi all of u.About this invention ,it is great effort by waqar ahmad. People should not be so astonishing and surprise.bcoz first philipino ,then china and Japan and America has done their exercise. I am very sorry by this article which consider it as fraud. If such efforts done by abroad it is welcome but if it is done by native these so called elite has pinch in stomach.bcoz they frustrate that they hv PhD degrees and nothing is doneby them.their degrees are degrees whether genuine or fake.we should encourage such people who sacrifice their time n money rather than criticise in dumped manner. Waqar ahmad is proud of this nation and we welcome and pray for his success. Geo waqar ahmad geo.
Jokes apart, I sincerely pray that Engr Agha waqar is right, nullifies entire physics and we have a Nobel laureate from Pakistan this time pakka Musalman.
simply explained. thanks dear hoodbhoy.
Well written article. we needed such a piece of writing.
Thank you for writing this ... this episode saddens me.
@mirza Please google first, like everyother river Nile also flows downhill
not a bad way to spend a few days discussing a false " achievement" instead of reading/hearing about the ever green negatives (murder, rape, street crimes, blasts).. c'mon guys, admit it.. we Pakistani are thirsty to hear any sort of "positive" news, even at the expense of being taken for a ride.
@Tanzeel: Really bad example, "Flat Earth" was our incapacity to check the idea but the 2nd law of thermodynamics has been tried and tested. Dont wish for a miracle Lets make one happen as a nation! Cheers and god bless!
Uncle Before writing any article make sure to put complete context. You just cut few lines of what Dr A.Q. Khan said and pasted here. I have seen whole show. Dr A.Q. Khan was saying if this is done and practically shown then it's really good invention. Still you people can make sure to check it completely for any hidden tank. Also NUST is asked for 50 Lac for testing whole process. What you will say about universities of Pakistan who are also making money, not only Pakistani Govt and other people whom you mentioned here. Don't lead people in wrong directions for our National hero (Dr A.Q Khan).
oh... you have broken millions of hearts... :'( :p
The car is basically running on hydrogen gas,its gud but its very dangerous,thats why it cannot be commercial,hydrogen gas means u r playing with nuclear based fuel,if any leckage of the gas appears,there would be an explosion that cannot be imagine......
the man said that he is running a car with water,water cannot be used as a fuel for combustion on commercial basis....
The credit must go to common guys like us who have been campaigning against this FRAUD on youtube videos comments and other forums at our (whatever) level since day one. You only made a late entry in this drama.
To all the Einsteins here who've asked the question "How come the car runs on water ?" , the answer is that it doesn't. My guess is that he makes people think he's running the car on water but the fact is it's still running on petrol/cng. Just because you have a ''water switch' in the car doesn't mean you can run it with water.
The guy is a fraud, a charlatan. Back in 2008, a company 'Genepax' in Japan claimed to have the water technology running. Turns out, the company either was a scam or the technology failed. A Sri Lankan claimed the EXACT same thing this guy is claiming, only to be sued later for committing fraud.
I am with Hoodbhoy and Ata-ur-Rehman and I believe every sensible person should.
PS: Please try to look beyond conspiracy theories. The oil lobby would've nothing to do with this one this guy is proven to be a trickster.
The efforts made on part of this young scientist must be lauded instead to criticize .It may not be the end but its good start which will eventually lead to more discoveries in this field.Pervaiz Hudbouy is always critical whether its Atta Ur rehaman "Wonders of science" or any other such developments.I ask him whats his own contribution for Pakistan except criticizing others.
The fact that there is any usable energy available in the universe fundamentally contradicts the "laws" of thermodynamics (unless the entire multiverse adds up to precisely zero, which is likely).
Until we fully understand how the universe exists, there is the possibility that unforeseen ways may be found to liberate energy or even create it.
Scientists biased by their training have great trouble being faithful to science where unexplored areas are concerned. That's why development of indisputably real energy from low energy nuclear reactions (LENRs) has been slowed and underfunded for decades. That tragedy, thankfully, is finally poised to end.
Potential new energy sources, with such spectacularly beneficial consequences for all of us if real, deserve extra-careful scrutiny before being discarded.
And fraudsters should be aggressively prosecuted to reduce the damage-by-similarity they cause to legitimate efforts. The exact nature of their frauds should be exposed openly.
Agha waqar claim has two parts 1. The first claim is that he can run a car on water, which is actually correct, and in my opinion there is no 'fraud' in the sense that water can actually be broken in to hydrogen and oxygen and that hydrogen can be used to power the engine. This is similar to how modern 'hydrogen' concept cars run, only that the water is electrolysed at a plant and not inside the car. 2. He can do it in a cost effective way, which is actually foolish to think. The energy efficiency of a typical heat engine is 30% to 40%. So no, you can't charge the battery with the engine to hundred percent and then repeat the cycle endlessly. If he is claiming that the kit drains only 1% of energy in the battery then i think, there is something fishy going on inside his 'water kit', he has most probably metal hydride electrodes which release hydrogen when current is applied and the water is effectively boiled and disappears as vapors rather than being electrolysed thus completing the illusion that water is being converted to 'HHO' gas. The catch is that metal hydrides are quite expensive to manufacture and if a car is run in the said manner, the cost of operating it would be several times than that of petrol.
no doubt people who blindly accepted this theory and the kit are ignorant. those rejecting this thing without having seen this person or kit are also ignorant. may be the function of the kit may be to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen and both of them can act as fuel and move the pistons.MAY BE. but to reject this all together and write this harsh article is also JAHALAT.
That is the problem with pakistan, too many people to critcise than to support r&d. And about the article i'd say that it must some different mechanism than just putting water in your genrtors fuel tank we should wait and see what turns out rather than critising somebody elses work the professor from MIT would be more at his Place if he starts to invent something rather than critsize.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME
water power car already invented in japan. it is practical
Amazingly,in a country of 180 million people there are only two scientists who rejected this absurd claim. It is frightening to observe the ignorance and the sorry state of Pakistani 'scientists'. I just don't want to imagine what would Pakistan be without Pervez Hoodbhoy and Attaur Rahman.
I am asking Dr hoodbhy, what is your contribution for this country? Only criticizing others? Please stop this foolishness and a chance should be given to this creative man to prove his theory. We support this young man for his creativ work.
"MIT has published a new paper (abstract), along with a video of a working prototype, of what they're describing as an 'Artificial Leaf' that separates water into oxygen and hydrogen using cheap, non-exotic materials. 'The artificial leaf — a silicon solar cell with different catalytic materials bonded onto its two sides — needs no external wires or control circuits to operate. Simply placed in a container of water and exposed to sunlight, it quickly begins to generate streams of bubbles: oxygen bubbles from one side and hydrogen bubbles from the other. If placed in a container that has a barrier to separate the two sides, the two streams of bubbles can be collected and stored, and used later to deliver power: for example, by feeding them into a fuel cell that combines them once again into water while delivering an electric current.' No word on the arrival of 'Artificial Salads,' or when any of their other alchemy projects will bear artificial fruit."
Would Hoodbhoy be convinced if Agha Waqar tries the water kit on Hoodbhoy's car and it works well?
So far there are three claimants of water powered auto-mobiles in Pakistan. An old man in Lahore is claiming to run his Limo type car on water; using it on daily basis. Another resident of Karachi is claiming to run water + fuel mixture saving 30% fuel costs. And this 3rd self styled Engineer challenging Dr Ataaur Rehman in Capital Talk with practical first theories later concept. Lets see how long it take to burst this bubble hyped by media.
Pakistan Zindibad! We can to show US we r most innovating culture in world!
Thank you Dr. Pervez. What do you think of link text?
The RF generator should use more energy than the energy produced by burning salt water.
I remember a decade ago a cheat in hyderabad discovered a medicine which could treat diabetes in 3 doses. My God what a event it was......half of pakistan gathered at the door of this noble laureate..begging for a dose of the miracle drug......just to know in 3 weeks the guy was a cheat......mabrook we have another one now in the name of agha weqar....all i can say to our beloved pakistani newton....tusi great ho....pura pakistan ko kam par laga diya hai....tusi great ho.
Indians are a little ahead. In mid-1990s there was this guy who claimed to create petrol from herbs by heating them. Of course, the herbs, the mixer and the pot were his. Politicians gave him land and what not. Some scientists also supported him. Other scientists who challenged him on the very same 2nd law of Thermodynamics were shouted down by the media, politicians, public, scientists and engineers supporting him and their ilk. So finally the gauntlet was thrown: He brings his "special" herbs and the rest will be given to him. Lets see if he can make petrol. Of course he refused. The reason was simple: He was using a glass tube mixer filled with petrol, sealed at the bottom with wax. As he heated his not so special herbs, the wax melted and the mixture now contained petrol.
Con men getting attention by fooling others : that is all what this is about.
People in Pakistan have a hard time grasping the concept of the theory of evolution but when it comes to a water car, most of them have no problem accepting it even though it contradicts a major law of Physics.
@Ali Iqbal: River Nile flows uphill
Quite true ; sir . But let me add an optimistic , note . I appreciate the effort . For this is need of the hour . We need to explore and experiment the laws of science , for a " Eurica " situation in Pakistan . We need to discover new laws and implement the old ones . After all petroleum and gas are not the only source of power generation .
While independent confirmation of claim of Mr waqar is essential, may share that gentleman has demonstrated water kit running the generator in a ktn tv program
are u people insane , this technology is 100% working and true but some facts u need to know guys , u can not run a car completely on water yet , but almost can save 70 to 75% of fuel cost ! , and we r Woking with a German company to launch a KIT IN pakistan ! , that will have a MRP of 30000 TO 35000 intalled in your car !
This is an insult to your nation. I do not mean this lovely little dream machine, but an Op-ed to say that you cannot dream. It isn't as though people were tanking up with baltis and piping it in their cars. One man with a sense of drama does not mean that the Hondas would die a slow death.
The media, at least this time, sold a harmless story and did not sponge on some blood.
Water is an important symbol. In India, we have many such 'miracles' - water spouting from deities/shrines. People worship at water sources that are polluted. If only we had someone with a wet dream too, we'd save on petrol to visit these miracle sites!
finally something for people to know the caliper of Dr Khan's dumbness..
Actually the basic problem is that this guy who is just a "DIPLOMA HOLDER" did what you guys who are holding degrees from the best institutions around the world could not do.No disrespect but are you trying to tell us that you are better than thee "AQ Khan" and this is some sort of a publicity crap that he is involved in???....He has seen the car and he is telling the whole nation that this car actually works,so I recommend you see that car yourself and then make some statement and in the mean time appreciate that person for what he did....I must also mention that I am just a medical student so I dont know much about these engines and stuff but I do have the a little knowledge about potential and ionization energy of water which makes me think that this is quite possible.....And I really hope that this water engine actually works.
Is there a catalyst that can convert water to a combustible substance? If not, then a water kit is impossible. But there seems to be nothing that science can not achieve, this subject needs more research.
Everywhere in world there are jokers making absurd claims like running car on water. But in evidence based societies which follow the proven scientific methods these jokers don´t last long.
The manner in which some TV-Anchors, Ministers and Scientists supported this claim is mind blowing. We are an ignorant nation and take pride in being ignorant. We just love to be a laughing-stock.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics cannot be violated... its simple. It has withstood scrutiny for thousands of years.
To all the "Defenders", This is not how science works. Science is not a matter of public opinion. You can't pass a law in an assembly and magically make an Ostrich "Not-a-bird".
Science is a journey for truth, Poetically speaking. We observe phenomena and update our beliefs based on the available evidence. What Agha Waqar has done is not completely tested. It has nothing to do with his ethnicity or origin. What he's saying is basically incompatible with what we have in science. It goes against two very basic laws in science. The Two laws of Thermodynamics. Both restrict what can and cannot be done with energy. So, according to the first law, You cannot magically create new energy, and according to the second law, you cannot get 100% efficiency, because entropy will always increase. The total amount of energy spent will always be more than the amount of energy put in.
That said, Scientific LAWS are the very basis of science. They are laws because they are inviolable. they are based on observation, not an assembly hearing or a cabinet meeting.
What Agha Waqar has, is not even a theory, it can be called a hypothesis, using the definition of hypothesis very very loosely.
There is no conspiracy. There is just ignorance and wishful thinking. And we need to grow out of it, if we ever want to progress as a nation.
Why can't a credible institution with scientists and engineers check it out and report their findings. Or we too prudent to that and instead of doing that we discuss our science lessons and spend time on blogs. It needs testing from a credible institution and results should be acceptable to all.
any serious science student/teacher wouldnt waste his breath rejecting this lunacy, Id expect them to laugh and move on, but as Houdboy says, we have proven just how desperate we have become. its not a scientist with a word on the Higgs Boson we are talking about, its the fundamental newtonian laws, we dont sit and debate them because thats one of the few things man is certain of
plz request them not to waste our scarce public money on a stupid hoax...............
One of my American friend has been working on this water kit project since last five years but could not succeeded yet but nothing is imposible.... in the world of KUN FA YA KOON.
I simply say let him prove and scientist to test before saying its nonsense.
@Abdul: IInitially you have water and some energy which is used to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. This hydrogen and oxygen is combined to form water and energy which is used to drive the car. So water + energy ==> hydrogen + oxygen ==> Water + energy. See you start with water and energy and end up with water and energy. If there is no loss of energy then this is a perpetual machine
I am surprised at the author.. how cud he write this piece of article without first thoroughly researching the topic .. i am a student of science (and that also from no 'polytechnic' institute) and if the author had actually searched the internet then he would have known that running motors on water is no new discovery .. it has been around for more than 2 decades, and this experiment has been in constant debate and controversy for many years and such cars have been made previously in quite a few countries .. if you ahve any doubts then go and search for 'joe's cell' and you'l know running cars on purely water is possible and has bveen done.. this mnan has only reproduced others work here in pakistan so may bve he's no scientist or engineer but he's no fraud either.. and certainly no genius because any one with brains and a little knowledge of electronics and mechanics can easily reproduce this.
Well, i am not a scientist or a chemist. But i am just wondering about the irresponsible statements by various prominent personalities. Is Federal Cabinet really having a fourth meeting on this issue, WOW. One can imagine the time and cost spent on this. As if all of them have nothing else to do.
One major aspect of development and prosperity has been lost by Muslims.....Research. Dig into the things before blindly accepting the fact.
Hoodboys own contribution to Physics is questionable as he was recommended by Iqbal Ahmad at a time when American universities were infested by vacuum because of Americans fighting the war in Vietnam. And after all these years he has contributed to research only through his own students ( whether with their permission or not another story all together). He fails to present a fair critique of the Kit, and ends up just making fun of all those incompetent individuals who are not scientists. A mere reference to second law of thermodynamics would not absolve his failure to decipher what is so fraudulent about the kit, after all hybrid cars in the west make use of different fuels and what not.
This is so great...
"Residents of Hyderabad chant slogans in the favor of scientist Agha Waqar during a demonstration in front of the Hyderabad Press Club. Agha Waqar has found that motor vehicles can run off water, and water alone."
Google it and check out the pictures of the latest Pride of Pakistan.
I am an Indian... and I am loving it!
:)
@JCD: I cant possibly agree with you more on this. I myself am a physicist and this whole affair is so disturbing to watch. And yes if the basic law of conservation of energy, on which we base each and every one of our mathematical calculations, fails we may just have to burn our books and move to some asylum..
science is not limited and the laws are man-made, no one can be so sure that law of thermodynamics once made is impossible to challenge. i am not saying that he was right nor saying he is a fraud. but we should make a team of scientists both in favour n opposition who could personally witness the car running on water. and then decide whether its a fraud or miracle. every new law negates or surpasses the previous one.
Most Pakistanis, being end products of generations of cousin marriages, are stupid enough to believe anything. Some years ago, a so-called "doctor" in Hyderabad claimed to have found a cure for diabetes: he used to feed diabetics with a medicine made of 100% sugar! I know a man who gives away a kind of powder to diabetics to lower their blood glucose level. I told him to get his formula patented and get a pharmaceutical company to market his product, and give to charity the millions he'd earn in royalty, but he declined (he knows that if the powder is tested in a lab, it will prove to be a harmless mixture of salt and flour. As for this miracle "water-fuel" car, the so-called inventor probably hopes to get a huge loan from the government before he disappears.
We should examine the things how this happen and not to just making our assumptions that its impossible. That person is not doing anything hidden, a lot of people have demonstrated those are not blind. They may have check from a lot before declaring it is true.We don't do anything and don't let other do it, we just get used to resist everyone who want a change. We cannot support someone we are just experts in pulling legs.
The only thing that comes to mind is that this man who comes from MIT and have taught in the relevant field for 14 years would not bother to go and do what Agha Waqar is asking everyone including Attaurehman i.e. "Please come on tele and prove me wrong with your expensive education". This is the level of reluctance by our intelligentsia for finding truth. The writer is sneering at the whole Pakistani nation for day dreaming due to the energy crisis but he will not do what the right course of action would have been in any other country if such a thing had to happen ever. If Agha Waqar is yearning for cheap popularity as the writer claims, so is the writer for leaving everything aside and writing just an article to earn a few bucks from the paper. Another blunder that the writer makes in contrast with Mr. Attaurehman is that both are referring to two different laws of thermodynamics. Watch capital talk of July 31 on youtube.com. I am also of the view that this would be hardly possible especially because of the energy and circumstances required for electrolysis yet the way we are handling this issue is pathetic.
Interesting article. I don;t claim to be a master of physics, i chose the biological sciences as my field of study for college. But i do have a basic and adequate understanding of it, and i was flabbergasted to hear this news. How can water produce energy to power a car? and if it can why has it not been done before? My father who is an engineer thought the same but we discussed a few, perhaps far fetched possibilities. Maybe his device can isolate hydrogen from water, in that case hydrogen is a fuel on its own. A powerful one. Or maybe its a complete oax. In any case. let the guy prove his theory. If he's right. this could be the dawn of a new era. If he isn't, well we'll move on. And yes big hoaxes happen all the time in the scientific community. If anyone would remember the cloning hype era. But discoveries are made all the time which alter the way we percieve the world. Just a few months ago< the scientific community was beginning to question Einsteins Relativity. Give the guy a chance, maybe he's on to something. I think as members of the scientific community we know better than to completely dismiss an idea till its been thoroughly investigated.
why u people r reacting lie this?? if agha waqar is fraud he will b exposed n mr hoodboy hav u checked that car by yourself or u r comparing yourself with mr a q khan???
@Tanzeel: Jump off the seventh floor. Be open to new ideas. May be you don't fall flat. You may start flying.
As usual a well written article by Prof Hudbhoy .....It shows how naive, impractical and irrational attitude our anchors, politicians and scientists have. It is a very simple matter of therdynamics ..... it reveals that we as nation are in the polemic age....we cellebrate our ignorance and still believe that if clay can form man why water cannot generate an energy worth mechanics and dynomism..
To view around 360 in a research of any discipline makes anyone more knowledgeable. Exploring theory and developing hypothesis seems to be a serious mature activity. Which most often opens new doors in science. But trying out for invention in darkness has a probability of one in a million in today's en lighted information age. Each discipline exist with finite body of knowledge which is being challenged, tested, proven and added with new concepts with the passage of time. Modern Physics have evolved from basic concepts to more complex and contemporary paradigm. Those who have gone through the tough paths knew exactly in first instant about the gimmick played by inventor Agha Waqar.
even if Mr Agha is right all this shows we are a failed state, mind and body both!
I understand this is not a miracle or rather unique. No one wanted to attempt this for fear of the Western oil monopolies and cartels imposing their agendas on third-world countries in the name of globalisation. Agha Waqar can become a billionaire or he may be removed in the way of this oil Mafia. But dismissing it as a fraud is uncalled for. Even in science many times the practical comes and then comes the theory.
@Tanzeel: That was a belief proved wrong by a Scientist. Here is a scientific law being misunderstood by an Ignorant person. he believes he is not violating any law of thermodynamics in doing so :)
@Saud: There is already a theory, that at sub-atomic (Quantum) level, laws of conventional and classical physics can be bent or totally violated. At the quantum level, its a whole new universe. But, at higher level, atomic, the established laws of Physics and Thermodynamics will always hold true.
Like all other pseudo-scientists, you have given reference of a totally unrelated theory. And mind you, it is just a "Theory". That theory, may turn out to me a law one day, but there will be years of collective research and experimentation involved, with big minds working on it. It will be deliberated upon by the world class scientific community, not by politicians, bureaucrats and TV anchors.
Professor deserves respect for his ideas and his initiatives on social problems in Pakistan. I belong from Khairpur Mir's a city where the city's major Shah Latif University is running with our proper faculty members and where the use of unfair means is common during examination. It challenges the credibility of the degree holders from Khairpur.
"Science is how we perceive and laws are how we satisfy our observations. They tend to change with era -"
@Tanzeel: put very simply, the Second Law of Thermodynamics says the when you roll honest dice you can't expect to come up with sevens every time. It's been true since antiquity and no one sees it changing any time soon, regardless of what future eras may bring.
@Ghulam Rasool Chandio: Why would you bring ethnicity in science. Before writing this comment, I wish you had investigated about the ethnicity of Dr. Atta & Hoodbhoy!!!
I have a business background and am not well-versed with the science surrounding this affair. And so I would like to pose a few questions for the knowledgeable engineers here.
We derive a tremendous amount of kinetic energy from fossil fuels; (1) why is this law of thermodynamics not applicable for fossil fuels like petrol? The sun has been burning bright and hot everyday for about 4.5 billion years now, and its source of energy is hydrogen (and helium). (2) Why is the proposition that oxyhydrogen (a.k.a Brown's Gas/HHO) can be used as an alternative fuel to derive kinetic energy, so preposterous? It is, after all, used for welding.
Apparently there is an efficiency barrier -- it takes more energy to produce the gas than the energy the gas itself will release when burned. However, I think it is the job of researchers and scientists to figure out how to break this efficiency barrier. Even though nobody gave him a mandate or any funds, this poor guy Agha Waqar has been trying to do this very job for a while. He has made an attempt to break this efficiency barrier (and claims that he has succeeded) in a time when such a breakthrough is desperately required. (3) Why would someone stereotype Waqar's earnest efforts as "fraud" when instead, they should embrace this development as an opportunity to intensify research for tapping into this potential utility of water?
I humbly say that if Waqar's kit powers a small car for 100-200 kilometers without damaging any electromechanical components in the vehicle, he would win over all his critics. And so I ask my last question: (4) Has Waqar demonstrated the wonders of his kit for a long enough distance, or does he just zip around until the "2 liters" of distilled water run out?
Thanks in advance.
I would simply say, clear investigations should be done & it should be positively & constructively,I also believe that Every thing is possible, we all know that we get 8000 times more energy by enriching a nuclear atom,as compared to burning one atom of Carbon.
More than once Mubarak do i find myself in disagreement with the Doctor of Philplosophy. Here however, he has hit the bingo zone. The illiteracy of the masses and frustation of the few educated have put them in hopes for the supernatural; in hopes of a reason to be proud of the country. But the behaviour of the more celebrated of the scientists like AQ Khan and Samar Mubarak can cause a rational person to doubt the very existence of the Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.
We should wait and let the time decide whether its fraud or not!
I made a power point presentation to explain my friends why this "WaterCar" will not work. Posted it on my facebook account. Many of fellow Engineers presented verbal certification from "National Heros" as argument against the logic I presented and Laws of thermodynamics. This raises serious questions on the standard of education we are having in Pakistan.
This should be a explanations from those who had been certifying this project and some sacking must be done. If these guys can be fooled by a technician, you can imagine what foreign companies would do to them to get their projects approved.
The link to my facebook post (Tuesday) is following: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151302587305830&set=a.10151302414790830.562455.635425829&type=3&theater
Every body wants to dismiss Agha's claim. It could be a mistake, hoax or reality. I think instead of making fun of him, his work should be evaluated. Thats what Dr. Qadeer said as well. Regarding the perpetual motion machine thingy, I think this concept is being coerced to be applied in this situation where as what he might be doing is just exploiting the energy stored in water. Who knows, may be he found a way to disturb the molecular bonding. The rest is Hydrogen burning and we know hydrogen can really burn. For those who talk about 2nd law of thermodynamics, what do you say about nuclear fission reaction. The amount of input energy is less than the amount of output energy. Doesn't this violate the 2nd law ??? Of course there is the difference of mass in this equation, but from the surface it seems like you input less and get more. All I am saying is, give the guy a chance, it may be, just may be that he found some thing that we dont know. There may be some hidden component like the mass in fission reaction which makes this possible. If I were Agha, I wouldn't tell every one how I made it work till I have some assurance that my invention will not be stolen. I think Dr. Qadeer is talking along these lines too. And at the end, it may not be true, but hey lets try at least.
This is a BIG JOKE ! You surely needs energy first for break-down of water. If this is like that then it was invented in ancient times and named 'STEAM ENGINE'!!! (as that also runs on water for layman but on charcoals for real physicts)
Respected sir, you have not stated single evident prove that this guy is a fraud other than
insulting.. putting allegations and making fun of the guy .. have you personally checked his
work? people mostly here are just saying things like this, insulting Agha Waqar without even
practically going there on the ground and proving that he is a fraud. merely by saying he is
doing this and that wont be enough .. please kindly we would appreciate if you personally go and
check his work and then prove it wrong .. Thank you much respect
Hi
It is about time Hoodbhoy stops deriding and demoralizing those who work for Pakistan's future.
It doesn't matter if scientist Agha Waqar is right or wrong. What matters is that he is making an effort, a considerable effort. What have Ata Ur Rehman and Hoodbhoy have done for our beloved nation anyway?
The least we can do is practice some patience and wait for scientist Agha Waqar's experiment to be practically tested. Success and failure can be decided only after that.
Thank you.
Thank you for writing this article. Thank you for saving us from the frustration of watching all this. Being an engineer it was too painful to see our scientists agreeing to such false claims. Thank you for making awareness. Pakistan is doomed. We have committed suicide. I wish I was not born to see all this happening in Pakistan. I am humiliated being a Pakistani.
Ofcourse the car cant run on water alone. But i think there must have been some fuel in the water kit. Its true that using water along with regular fuel can greatly increase its efficiency. Water breaks into hydrogen which burns very quick and burns the petrol much better along with it. Hence the petrol becomes more efficient due to the hydrogen. Saw it on youtube.
Another senior scientist bashing and in ignorance and jeleosy with out any definative proof or reasoning.Dr sahab may be MIT graduate But then again doest even understand the Process State Change .Even being a Nuclear Scientist him self where using a minimal Thermal Explosion to initiate a Nuclear Reaction .Using very small amount of energy to produce a very large amount.How state change of reaction.Translating a Thermal reaction into an Nuclear fission reaction.Same is done here he is using Electrolysis to break up water in HHO(Brown`s Gas) and then this HHO is Combusted In Engine Cylinder.The problem With 2nd law would have arose only one the same Electrolysis is used again to fuse HHO.Same as getting a Bigger Thermal Blast from smaller Thermal Blast in a Nuclear bomb without getting a fission reaction.
So what if one day, people do manage to make a car that runs on water? People used to think matter was absolute, anti-matter changed all that didn't it?
I don't think its wise to simply discourage a dreamer, let them dream. Maybe one day someone will be successful.
Respected sir, you have not stated single evident prove that this guy is a fraud other than insulting.. putting allegations and making fun of the guy .. have you personally checked his work? people mostly here are just saying things like this, insulting Agha Waqar without even practically going there on the ground and proving that he is a fraud. merely by saying he is doing this and that wont be enough .. please kindly we would appreciate if you personally go and check his work and then prove it wrong .. Thank you much respect
@Hoodbouy: In my view, the experiment you demanded is not the good check for it. When hydrogen will be injected via the intake pipe just like gas kit in generators, pistons will start to move and generator will start. He had shown the working of generator with water kit as well.
Problem is the continuous supply via battery, batter will soon be dead even if you provide a live wire from generator to batter to keep charging. This is his claim which is again the law of thermodynamics
lmao@ SAUS.... the article you have cited is about 'entangled particles'... if you take 2 minutes to google that instead of posting your expert opinion you will find that entangled particles come in quantum physics at sub-atomic level and not at the classical physics.... everything behaves differently at the quantum level including space and time than it would in the world of classical physics..... the car engine works at classical level, do you really believe this person had resources and expertise to work on the quantum level, that wold be like outdoing CERN by 100 years and yours and Tazeels comments only verify what the professor had to say about unrealistic attitudes in our society... we live in a fake world and we can't even bother to google something before we make an opinion when we have a better method to make our opinions ie emotionally
The best part is that dr pervez wrote this article without meeting mr Agha and without having a look at the invention. Cannot expect this piece from mr hoodbhoy without digging the details. I would request mr Agha to give him a ride even if he doesn't agree. Give him a world tour ride till he reaches MIT.
Respected Sir, you have not stated a single proof other than just making fun of the guy .. have you tested his work? he has challenged all of you but instead of practically going out there and checking this out every one is just making fun and putting allegations and useless personal believes ..i wish some one can practically prove it that he is a fraud like Agha Waqar has.
@Ghulam Rasool Chandio: are you serious now you are making it into a ethnic issue? reading your comments I lose more hope in Pakistan that there are any sane people left there.
I am chem engr and serving in fertilizer industry for about 20 years. We produce hydrogen from natural gas which is further converted to ammonia gas. Now a days fertilizer plants are dacing acute shortage of gas. I wonder now our national hero will give us enough energy and hydrogen that we not be requiring natural gas...... So called Engr agha waqar sems not a fool. He got what he wanted. I think our mefia and our sold scientists like Dr shaukat and Dr Qadeer are big fools...They steping their nation down just for their cheap popularity. I dont think these scientists anchors like hamid mir and tallat are ignorant of basic science laws but they have become the part of a big political fraud... Shame for all..... This drama has brought our national immage down to foolishness......
Thank you for writing this article. Thank you for saving us from the frustration of watching all this. Being an engineer it was too painful to see our scientists agreeing to such false claims. Thank you for making awareness. Pakistan is doomed. We have committed suicide. I wish I was not born to see all this happening in Pakistan. I am humiliated being a Pakistani.
Shame on all of you. This is Pakistan's only breakthrough in the field of science and all of you are making fun of it. What happened to Dr. Abdus Salam? He invented the Higgs Boson and Higgs hijacked it from him. Now because of your attitude, somebody will hijack the water pump from our 1st Islamic sainsdaan from Sindh Saeein Ibn Agha sahib. Saein to Saein, Saein ka Sainsdan bhi Saein.
As a Mechanical Engineer I have no doubt about the failure of this crap idea. Not a single experiment took place in the history of the world that violate the Fundamental Laws of Physics. The inventor even don't know about the Energy Balance. He is not taking into account the Electric Charge being utilized for Electrolysis. Around the world technical issues are being discussed in Conferences/Seminars/Technical Sessions but unfortunately in Pakistan we have Capital Talk
Give me scientific evidence. PH failed to provide one and based his article on excerpts of interviews that proves neither side of the story.
this is a planted plant by the govt to gain some popularity before they leave... ofcourse the claim would be proven wrong after the next election and the wrath of people would fall on the next govt instead..... why is the cabinet meeting over n over again on this issue? To gain some attention for themselves? Or to gauge whether this is workable when all of them have fake degrees? Or rather to decide if its Halaal to run our vehicles on water? If an invention was really made then make it commercial rather than call cabinet meetings to gain attention over a fake technology
Very well written article - finally sense prevails on what should have been common sense.
Those who are arguing that "nothing is set in stone" in science have probably never studied science itself. The Second Law of Thermodynamic is so basic and fundamental that the world would not work without it - it cannot be violated.
Its a strange way to see how the people living in pakistan look and think about a situation including the writer!! If one person has shown a strange car!! first thing is that media will show it to public thats what they do!! They cannot prove it weather its right or wrong!!! who will do it scientists will do it !!!!
According to me what Dr AQ khan was saying is you must test it and then say it if its fraud or not.Thats how a ethical person will do it!! and thats how it happen all over the World!!
What Dr Attaur Rahman is saying no!!!! no need of checking its fraud for sure ( while sitting home )!!! without checking wether even if its going again law or not ?
The solution is not just getting education and degree its the acceptance of people !!! We have to accept each other and listen to each other what other is saying before saying it right or wrong!!! there is no other way to success!!!
the contribution from energy from environment is also there read last paragraph in particular for details http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/electrol.html
@Tanzeel
[ There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat . . ]
It was NOT a law , it was just a view by few without any proof (including few learned ones) . Science later proved it to be wrong.
The wise accepted it but looks like anything to do with wisdom is our enemy.
@Tanzeel: Will you believe if someone says gravity does not exist??? If you have studied college sciene(?) you will know that the claim this water kit guy is making is equivalent to saying that gravity does not exist. But you will say ...science is how we perceive it, science is NOT how we perceive it, science is how nature IS, fundamental laws DO NOT change, they may have been wrong about the shape of the earth but this is NO law, so don't quote that example. But this is beyond our understanding.
Well in the 1990s we had our Ramar Pillai from Tamilnadu who claimed to produce petrol from leaves. Mind you he was a school dropout. The Tamilnadu assembly passed a resolution praising him. When the Union Science Minister said it was not possible members from Tamilnadu accused him of being against Tamils. Before a distinguished audience of scientists in Delhi he added a fistful of leaves and bark to a litre of water, let it boil for 30 minutes and then sprinkled the mixture lightly with salt, citric acid and other chemicals. A layer of a kerosene-like substance materialised at the top. The Indian science establishment wanted to know how he did it. "We all saw it, but didn't completely understand it," said the first secretary in the government's science and technology department. "We can't explain the chemistry, but it was carried out in a scientific manner. There was no magic about it at all.' A senior chemist at the Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi, said: "Until we know exactly what is in the mixture, we can't say for sure if this is real, but I do not think he is a trickster." Later it turned out that he used a hollow glass stirrer in which he filled petrol and sealed it with wax. Due to the boiling of water in the vessel the wax melted and the petrol escaped to the top of the vessel. We also had our God Ganapati drinking milk. But that is another story.
There is no difference between literate and illeterate scientist in our society
@Tanzeel: they explained their theory .... they do hydrolysis of something they like to call "HHO" and some capacitors that have water as dielectric. This is how they believe they defied 2nd Law of Thermodynamics
well let them Examine First... We should not be Judgmental....
Reminds me of the "herbal petrol" fraud in India a few years ago the 'discoveror' claimed to be able to generate a liquid by boiling some herbs in water. There definitely was a furore. Some individuals and organisations gave him cash prizes. He gave a demo and the 'fuel' generated was actually used to run a car. Heck, he even started selling this fuel for half the cost of gasoline. There were rumors of some politicians threatening him to part with his secret cheaply.
The government of India asked a team of professors from IIT Madras to evaluate his experiment. They concluded that the experiment was not repeatable and hence not scalable
Any one watching his first interview with Hamid mir could have smelled fouled,given he has some basic understanding of science and the way his assistants were defining that they applied the first law of thermodynamics , the TOPIC of resonance and what not ...was enough Comedy for me.
@Tanzeel: that was never a law, to begin with. that was a dogma, a belief reinforced by religious scriptures. and those who challenged it were hanged, so people were rather forced to believe that it was a law, a law of nature. and there never was any corroborating evidence to prove that earth was flat, except the god.
but, second law of thermodynamics is a law, not a theory.....and i hope you understand the difference between theory and law.
Thank you Sir for finally writing your piece. I was so sad to see people believing this car guy and getting hyper and I was thinking just the very same thing that you have mentioned that we are a country where people are looking for miracles, short cuts and snap solutions for everything from getting richer to scoring high in exams to having investments multiplied and conquering the west through "ijtamaai dua" alone and now we have this new miracle car to celebrate where we will have to just use water and be rid of all our energy crisis. The only miracle that has really worked successfully in this world is quest for knowledge, perseverance and hard work. It works like magic every time.
lol - i love PH.
Next one on Agha Waqar's 'to sue' list is Pervez Hoodbhoy.
"Hamid Mir" has introduced us to our heroes - first he interviewed "Osama Bin Laden", now he introduced "Agha Waqar"... What can you expect from <0 IQ anchors on TV channels who take pride (and probably make money) in making the politicians fight like cats and dogs.. Enough of circus...
The kit may not be running water only, but i think its not impossible to make such kit. If Google can run an ordinary car without driver, and even get licence for running a car without driver, then y not we can make a water car?
I have been watching videos of similar failed machines in past on Youtube. It was such a huge invention for Our Media, Politicians and so called Scientists.
They forgot the real Hero who is praised and remembered by the world each and every day.
Bravo to Pervez HoodBhoy for his continuous daring to speak the truth against what ever high the tide of lies is raised in this country.
Ever heard of steam engines, Dr. Hoodbhoy? It is just hot water.
@Tanzeel There is almost no chance of any established laws being proved wrong now. Physics has matured to the point where we have discovered the fundamental building block of universe, the Higgs Boson, which is even smaller than your brain, if you know what I mean.
@Tanzeel: There was never any "law" that the Earth is flat. Just a belief, and an inaccurate one. Yes, models and theories change, but there are somethings that have been so well substantiated that they just can not be disproved just like that (It is extremely rare in science that theories are proved entirely wrong. They are only modified in light of newly acquired data and evidence). If this water car thing is actually true and works on pure water, then that doesn't spell trouble for just the 1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics alone. These elementary principles govern nature and are the basis for pretty much all of science.
Funny that we ignore the millions of machines that follow that law for one stupid water car.
I am so very glad that such brilliant scientists as Pervez Hoodhboy exist in our country. I've been expecting a word from you since the first day that man started his fraudulent claims. Your constant efforts and stance against pseudoscience such as this are extremely admirable.
The 'water' car has strategic significance (ISI are you taking notes) as now, India will control all of our 'fuel' supply!! I can bet you that there there is a direct co-relation between the people who believe that the 'water' car is for real and the PTI '90-days' khan supporters. The same delusions are at work here!
Oratorically it is wrong to reason that Agha Waqar is incapable of inventing something which the rest of the world has not invented yet. But I do agree with the rest of the arguments... We simply can't evade hard-work on the price of daydreaming about Aladin's lamp.
This scientist should be given a chance to prove his theory. It's not wise to criticize him at the onset
This nonsensical fraud, if memory serves me right, was perpetuated by someone in India as well a decade or so ago. The real tragedy about the 'water kit' saga is that it has completely exposed the educational bankruptcy of our nation - from the President downwards. How can this country progress if charlatans and hocus pocus are the order of the day. Agha Waqar Ahmad deserves to be the next president of our country as he sadly appears to be a genuine reflection of what we have become today - a bunch of mindless wishful morons.
Thanks Hood Bhoy for this enlightenment, a long awaited article. I can also realize how much pain you possibly felt while writing this article and wasted your precious time to prove us such a crap "water power car" fraud.
now I can so easily figure out a fourth class, after lower, middle and elites, in Pakistan which is our beloved, proud yet stupid and nonsense SCIENTIST CLASS setting illusions on the minds of nation. sigh!!!
@Tanzeel:
Science wasn't your favorite subject back in school was it. The earth being flat was never a 'law'. It was what you call a mere theory and was shattered once we had enough experimental evidence to prove that our planet was in fact spherical. The "LAW of thermodynamics" on the other hand has withstood everything that was thrown its way. Almost all of our machinery operates based on that Law. Every 'scientific change' that you mentioned takes it for granted that this Law is correct. "The second law of thermodynamics" is perhaps why we are not superheroes living in a perfect society. Because that would just not be possible would it!? God has made some restrictions about what can and cannot be done in His universe,and for now He wont allow us to get more energy than we put in. Simply not possible.
It is one thing being open to revolutionary ideas and huge changes in the world, but being ignorantly hopeful for a miracle is not a virtue, I assure you.
The poor guy (engineer waqar) is from sindh and specially from interior sindh that's why people are calling it a fraud. I suggest here, please Let the time decide whether its a fraud or not.
@Jz: i dont know why they didnt respond.. but trust me, we are being ridiculed in the outside world. what waqar is claiming is similar to saying that the river in my village is running uphill... its simply is not possible. rivers always flow downhill!
When humans were created from a lump of clay, why wouldn't a car run on water?
I think Dr. Hoodbhoy is getting ahead of himself by claiming that this car violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, unless he has the design of car in front him. The scientific question is where does the energy to propel this car come from? In petrol cars it is the chemical energy in the fuel that is converted to kinetic energy. Chemical energy potential energy is released during the conversion of hydrocarbons to carbon dioxide and water. The engineer of this car has not provided a convincing explanation as to where the energy to move his car comes from. The people of Pakistan are not as ignorant Dr Hoodhboy seems to think, though we don't expect much from our politicians. But it is unfortunate that Dr Hoodbhoy has yet again has used such an affair to malign and mock the country.
Agha’s technology is using water as a fuel for combustion in the chamber, normally water exist in inert state but it has a very very huge and great potential energy in the form of Hydrogen and Oxygen, Agha’s technology is using this already existed potential energy in water by removing the molecular bonding. This is not a perpetual machine, it is a mechanism to use the potential energy which is already existed in water by nature, you just need to know that how to convert this potential energy in to the actual kinetic energy to produce motion. the law of conservation of energy is still intact here.
Dear Prof.
Being a meager student of science, i was appalled at the response given to Agha waqar. To me, questioning the second law is akin to blasphemy (metaphorically). i am happy that among my downtrodden ill educated people, there are guys like you and It gives me hope. On the other hand i am deeply saddened by the comments Dr. AQ khan and Dr. mubarikmand, why would they say things like that considering they are people of recognized eminence is beyond me.
wishing you luck in your effort to bring sanity here. Ali
Thank you Dr. Hoodbhoy! Watching it here in the US I have been shocked at the coverage of this nonsense on the Pakistani channels. Even when the coverage is mildly questioning (such as on Kamran Khan's show yesterday) there is an inability to even ask appropriate questions to expose such a ridiculous claim that violates fundamental laws of physics. The state of education and the hold of magical, miraculous, fantastical thinking is truly depressing.
The comment from @Tanzeel above sadly illustrates a complete lack of understanding of the scientific method: how scientific learning progresses from a belief / hypothesis ("the earth is flat") to designing experiments that can test the hypothesis and prove or disprove it. That experiment then should yield repeatable results for anyone who chooses to do that experiment. Science doesn't mean magic, its the name of a process that can produce replicable results.
I was waiting for your remarks since the first day I heard of this scam- Thanks for sharing your views.
OK, First, I believe that the car kit is a complete hoax,and does not even deserve to be discussed, it's a waste of time really, but umm...'no serious scientist would believe of challenging the second law'.
A few 'serious scientists' over at Japan considered it (and released the findings today):
http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/08/01/2127225/entangled-particles-break-classical-law-of-thermodynamics-say-physicists
So much for Hoodbhoy :P
You might have learned this in first year at MIT but we learned this in O level chemistry. And the reason why scientists and politicians choose to believe such madness is due to the amount of money which can be made from this scam. It just further proves my point that democracy in Pakistan is a sham. When people are educated enough, I'll start supporting democracy.
@Tanzeel: This sort of reasoning makes me wonder about the future of this nation. As a trained physicist, for the information of all ET viewers I want to make the following point. This engineer is claiming to have invented something which violates the first law of thermodynamics. The first law is probably the most basic and essential law in all of science because it pertains to the conservation of energy. Now people who say laws in Physics are meant to be broken need to understand why THE FIRST LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS CANNOT BE VIOLATED.
In the early twentieth century, Emmy Noether proved mathematically that all conservation laws correspond to symmetry laws for the rules of physics. The first law of thermodynamics therefore corresponds to a symmetry law of time. That is, the first law means that there is a symmetry law for the rules of physics in time. In layman terms, this basically means that physical laws do not change with time. The laws of physics are the same today as they were yesterday and will be tomorrow. Now this concept is so utterly basic that anyone refuting it must be considered delusional.
Hence, if the engineer claims that the first law of thermodynamics is incorrect that means that there is NO TIME SYMMETRY LAW FOR PHYSICS. This essentially means that everything anyone has ever discovered about the universe if utterly useless. Therefore, the entire scientific community should go home and rethink their lives.
This is the biggest joke I have ever heard.
Why people are against Agha's effort? Just because he is from backward area and province and his ethnicity is not similar to our REKNOWNED scientists (read punjabi)!!
Lets put it this way, build nuclear plants to generate electricity. Then commercialize HHO generation for the internal combustion engines. We will not have to replace already available engines in vehicles or machinery in textile mills, even the trains, we can put this fuel into them.
Upgrading a whole nation from combustion engines to electric motors is difficult, but providing a cheap fuel commercially created using Nuclear, Geo-Thermal, Wind or Solar power seems feasible. And this idea was matured well before Waqar Iqbal broke it as a discovery for us.
Surprised to see so much uncertainty on the part of our engineers and physicists. It reaches to the point of incompetence and ignorance. I mean you can't even agree on one of the most basic laws of physics. And yet we doctors are slated if we don't diagnose a complicated case in a single appointment!
Many of my Nustians friends didn't believe in this too. Its a big fake, plain and simple. If it were true then we would have been importing water-kits from some of the more advanced nations by now.
The govt is so used to braking the laws that this time they decided to brake the fundamental law of nature. This guy reminds me of the tailor who made invisible dress for the king. Everybody praised the dress, afraid of being called a stupid untill a small kid speak out. I wish if that guy could sell this invention to the our king (president zardari) for $60m and then run away with the money ;-)
finally, Sir i hv been waiting fr this article fr days !!!
Sir this piece was badly needed. What saddens me immensely is that the media did not give two hoots about the Pakistani scientists and engineers currently working on the LHC and played their role in the discovery of a new Boson which was truly earth shattering. I was hoping someone would call up one of them and at least take a small interview. But no, the media and the politicians have gone gaga over this fraud. Sad and sorry state for this nation indeed! :(
If BS were energy, Pakistan would be a powerhouse. This hoax comes and goes and is as old as the electorlysis of water when scientists found that water can be split into its component gases namely hydrogen and oxygen. However, the amount of energy spent in breaking water molecule would be the same as obtained from its components, after assuming no loss of energy. A quick serach of the Net would reveal the facts.
@Tanzeel: Theory of earth being flat was an idea, not proven or disproven, until later it was disproved. A law of thermodynamics, is a FACT. It is the absolute truth. Violating it is equal to bringing people back from the dead. It cannot be done. :)
@Tanzeel: Then let water boy publish in Phys Rev Lett and get his Nobel.
well he at least got the publicity he was craving for :)
these all doctors are wrong and mindless except dr atta u rehman....hahahahaha dr attau rehman sahib always try to accept new things no matters who invent it..
Great article, what else can you expect from our politicians and media....but I am amazed on the views of our nuclear scientist ( Dr Samar and Dr Khan).....Rest Dr Atta has always been an impressive personality...one of the few we have!!!
Finally a voice of sanity!
Well said sir. Finally a scientist stands up against this with Dr Atta-ur-Rehman. This event is an eye-opener for us. It shows how far behind are we when it comes to science and engineering.
The federal cabinet of Pakistan is meeting on THIS? That is so embarrassing.
Lets just not put fossil fuels directly in our cars, lets first use them to generate electricity in power plants, then use this electricity to charge batteries, then use the battery to break water into oxygen and hydrogen, then recombine this hydrogen and oxygen to run the car, and then CLAIM 'maine pani se chalne wali gaadi bana li'. :P
Was anxiously waiting for your piece. Dr Attaur Rehman is the only person who is continuously opposing this 'Aladin Ka Chiragh' but what about those engineers who were present in the Demo? I heard there were few professors as well from different universities of Pakistan, no one opposed it.
Well written,from the moment I heard about it I knew it was fake, I m deeply shocked by the way media and some scientists acted irresponsibly.
There was a law once, that ‘earth is flat’ and we all believed in it, like we believe now in law of thermodynamics. Science is how we perceive and laws are how we satisfy our observations. They tend to change with era, so be open to ideas - and at least try to get the theory out of him? Yes, it sounds dumb, but earth is round sounds dumb, isn't it?
As a current engineering student in 3rd Year, I was at first surprised and then appalled at the amount of attention this 'discovery' was receiving blindly. This is absurd to the point of being idiotic, pull yourself together Pakistan.