26/11 assault: Mumbai evidence not admissible, India told
The interior ministry has informed the Indian government that the evidence provided in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks case is not admissible in the Pakistani trial court since the lawyers representing the accused were not allowed to cross-examine Indian officials.
In a letter dispatched to the Indian government on Tuesday, the interior ministry, citing the verdict of the Rawalpindi Anti-Terrorism Court, declared that the cross-examination of the key Indian officials in the case was needed to make the evidence admissible in Pakistan.
The evidence provided by Indians included the confessional statement of Ajmal Kasab – the lone surviving gunman of the attacks that killed 166 people – a CD containing conversations between the November 26, 2008 attackers in Mumbai and their alleged handlers in Pakistan, post-mortem and medical reports of the deceased and injured and the statements of four Indian officials.
Sources privy to the investigations in the Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) informed The Express Tribune that the interior ministry had made it clear to India that the evidence would not have any legal footing in Pakistan if the Indian officials were not allowed to be cross-examined by the lawyers representing the seven arrested accused facing trial in Pakistan.
It was on July 17 when the trial judge – accepting the plea of Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, the alleged mastermind of the 2008 attacks, and other accused – declared the proceedings of a judicial commission “null and void”.
The accused had challenged the legal status of the report of the judicial commission as their lawyers were not allowed to question the Indian officials who prepared the incriminating evidence against them.
Earlier in April this year, a judicial commission was sent to Mumbai and recorded the statements of Mumbai Chief Investigation Officer Ramash Mahale, Rama Vijay Sawanth, the magistrate who recorded the confessional statement of Kasab, Dr Shaliesh Mohiti and Dr Ganash Dhondiraj — who conducted the post-mortem of the victims.
Published in The Express Tribune, August 1st, 2012.
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@Nadeem: Only Pakistanis like you can be proud of murder of 160 odd innocent people. 91000 of Your so called "best Army in the world" surrendered to 3000 Indian troops in 71. Can you compare the two situations.
@jagjit sidhoo: Yes ! ET mods have been very selective and have you noticed as to what's been happening with "Recommend" tab lately ! There is another new one, that simply blows awaya posted comment by stating that "you are posting cmments too quickly " ! Come on ET time to sort this out as this is the only open forum that Pakistani publication really has, and it would be a shame to lose this too !
@numbersnumbers: Dear numbers, I am not sure what tack you are taking through no fault of yours. I have not read enough. However, all I am sure of is that a group of people attacked Mumbai, and like 9/11 we will never really discover the truth. Indians seem to want to blame the Pakistani Government and vice verse. Although one likes to think that cooperation between the two is improving we will have to give them time to really get with it. As you may be aware I am not taking sides. I have found from experience that politicians usually evade the truth without actually telling lies, and that will never change.
ET i am a bit perplexed at your moderation policy you let messages be posted which are hate filled like@Jat"166 will be returned with 1000% interest. How long will you be able to afford it ? We always repay our loans." and @Ghaznavi "Have you repaid the loans to China for 1962 war?? First clear the backlog. We are gradually paying back your loans of East Pakistan massacres done by indian sponsored mukti bahini. 166 was only one installment of that. Take it like men and dont run like mice"These are two of the most blatantly hate filled ones who are openly talking about their wanting to commit terrorist acts there are others which are on similar lines but in milder language and you post all of them. What is your editorial policy do you want the relations between the two countries to improve or you want to add fuel to the fire ? I doubt this message will get posted .
@Saad: Please go to Wikipedia and search for "26/11" which will bring you to a detailed report on the Mumbai Attack! Please note that that names and hometowns of ALL 10 PAKISTANI TERRORISTS ARE LISTED!
@Ssad
The so called village/town in Pakistan which Kassab is being attributed to have been living is a false report. The residents of this small town claim that there is only one (Ajmal) Kassab and he is not the same person as the one in question.
OOPS, looks like you forgot to tell the Pakistani Government about it. Poor guys have arrested Lakhavi and company for no reason. At least tell them now. Good Luck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6YzN2Qrhug
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/2009/Apr/15/kasab-s-mother-to-visit-him-54.asp
@Ahmer Ali: Well Kasab or any other evidence, Pakistan Or its judiciary or any of it's agencies, the out some will remain .... It is not admissible as evidence .... . Friend ... Though I repeating ... Countless evidences are lying in Pakistan, if Pakistan is seriious ....
@observer: At your confusion about Pakistani accents, Kassab's matches none of the ones you mentioned. I know my country and understand the its languages :)
The so called village/town in Pakistan which Kassab is being attributed to have been living is a false report. The residents of this small town claim that there is only one (Ajmal) Kassab and he is not the same person as the one in question.
It beats me though why the government does not object on that anymore. However, I cannot help but recall the recent news in which Indian media claimed 3 "terrorists" from Pakistan entered Mumbai again. All 3 of whom were found in Pakistan going about their every day business while the claims were that they are in India. So it makes me think, maybe the Pakistanis have invented a time machine or they can travel at speed of light OR maybe a lot of claims from Indian side are based on fabricated stories.
@FU: "If India wanted to conduct surgical strikes after 26/11 it could have done so." They did so but returned back into Indian airspace with a face-palm. drone strikes are against the mutual enemy (TTP) where collateral damage of direct attack would be far greater. Of course, PAF has said it again and again that it can bring down drones but the decision to do so rests with the political leadership.Anyways, Btw was this comment just for the sake of commenting since it had nothing related to the news? (also the earlier one)
@Hasnain If India wanted to conduct surgical strikes after 26/11 it could have done so.But that was not point we wanted to convey.US used stealth helos for smooth operation,they did not use it because Pakistan will shoot it down.If your so called army had the might they would shot down atleast one drone which is raining over your territory everyday.
@Saad
That was was that. You want my opinion? I would stand beside Indian people and see Kassab being punished.
Thank you for your support, but Indians being Indians they have already convicted Kasab.
Just one very apparent thing…THAT is NOT a Pakistani accent :)
Sir, you are 4 years too late. Kasab;s Pakistani antecedents have been established beyond question. Even Pakistani establishment does not question that anymore. And Talking of Pakistani accent- which one would that be- Punjabi, Sindhi, Seraiki, Pashto or Urdu? Moderator ET- A Hasnain can have 2 posts in succession, but a non-Hasnain is told to slow down.
Pakistan is quite right in the stance it has taken in regard to requiring evidence from India in regard to the Mumbai disaster. It would be of some benefit if various countries around the world could take the same approach of requiring solid evidence before making unsafe decisions. A couple of bad examples are 9/11 and the London underground bombing, but there are many more. I do not suppose that the current decision will improve consistency either in Pakistan/India or the rest of the world, but it is a start.
@Nadeem:
Face to face? 6-9 militants stagged drama in Mumbai for 3 days. Paralyzingly the entire country? Face to face?
thanks for disclosing your real pride.
@Nadeem,
Thats the games MICE play. Face to face, happened in Dhaka, in Kargil, and in runn of kutch in 65. Don't forget that. This is what happens when history is wrongly taught... Grow-up man...
@True blue BIHARI:
Face to face? 6-9 militants stagged drama in Mumbai for 3 days. Paralyzingly the entire country? Face to face?
@Moulvi Nawaz Shareef: Papa Papa look no weapons; they are all laid down on the ground (Most famous Pakistani statement to India)
@Sanjeev: It is absolutely absurd and height of propaganda when you suggest that Pakistani lawyers will try to "murder" two prime suspects inside an Indian jail !! I think this conversation is getting way off topic now :)
Mama Mama....Pakistan is not listening to me (most famous Indian statement)
foolish Indians who dont understand language of Pakistan....its voice of terrorism coming throght judiaciary
@Sanjeev: Even the US doesn't know, nor they provided substantial evidence as to WHY they have a price on chief of JUD/LET. Stop using US as a shield and try to be factual please.
@FU: "Let the drone attacks begin…we are happy US is doing a job we like." As far as i remeber, Indians did send over their SU-30s for "surgical strikes" only to be leaving Pakistan airspace with missile locks shreaking IAF headsets. Even us had to use stealth halos to conduct an inland assult (which was worrisome in its own way). But even US hasn't done anything that Indians have been dreaming of (an attempt to neutralize the threats). If with all its so called military might India has to be dependent upon US for fullfilment of its dream then, doesn't bode well for their regional stature.
@Indian: "Pakistan convicted Dr Shakil Khan Afridi (the person who helped US find Osama) within a matter of days if not months no matter what level of evidence was available against him" What?, he ran a whole fake polio vaccine campaign. Putting the lives of thousands of innocent childern on risk. Secondly his capture more to send a signal to the CIA operatives working in Pakistan and break the preception of immunity enjoyed by CIA operative e.g. what happened in Reymond Davis case (which is unfortunate). But anyways, you are confusing things up for yourself. Making mere arguments wouldn't help India's cause, solid arguments certainly would.
The simple truth is that India has become a country of HIJRAS.
@BruteForce:
"India believes, rightly so, that Pakistan is merely going through the motions and not really serious about punishing the Terrorists."
I just swap the names here:
Pakistan believes, rightly so, that India is merely going through the motions and not really serious about punishing the Terrorists (because they are afraid they could be proven wrong).
My point is, that the trust deficit is on both sides. Now both countries should work on reducing this deficit otherwise there is no end to these debates.
Having said that, if India is so righteous she should come forward with all and everything they have on the matter (not block anything) and show to Pakistan the reality. It shouldn't be about 'since you are not giving me what I want, I won't give you what you want...' Because as you imply, India has nothing to hide.
That was was that. You want my opinion? I would stand beside Indian people and see Kassab being punished. But a little observation on my part (from the what the Indian media has released of Kassab's confession): Just one very apparent thing...THAT is NOT a Pakistani accent :)
@Raja Poras: you have raised valid & very pertinent question's, which the Indian Government has failed to address & has been unable to answer these important facts.
As for all the Indians who attack Pakistan relentlessly, if you want to find the culprits behind the 26/11 attack then ask your Government to form a joint investigation team with the Pakistani authorities, what's the problem in it? maybe your Government is hiding something? as far as our courts are concerned well they are totally independent and if you still don't buy this argument then why don't you go in the International Court of Justice? Hafiz Saeed has asked your Government to take him in IJC and he will accept the decision of that court. That will be fair! or you will call those courts bias too? stop running from transparent investigation & courts!
Well, in a Face-to-Face combat, you pakis have shown how brave you are by surrendering 91000 at one go, led by Niazi. Don't be a mice and come to the front and once again we will force you to do that. Even though 166 is a small price to pay for the peace at eastern borders, rest assured that it will be avenged, better sooner than later. Open your eyes, we started paying back to the chinese, not in "cash" but "in kind".
A.19th October, explosion in BB's rally 136 killed. B. 30th March,2009, Police Academy attacked 40 dead. C. 10th October,2009, Mosque visited by Army Officers attacked, 36 dead D. 27th May, 2010,Ahmadis massacred in Garhi Sahu, 67 killed
Just name one terrorist convicted by Pakistani courts.
Need one say anymore?
@Ghaznavi:
Did you repay the US for the Nato attack on Pakistani border post in 2011 ? Beware, till the time you complete the installments to India for East Pakistan, you might find you have one more loan to pay back.
@Ghaznavi: We are gradually paying back your loans
Borrowing from Paul to pay Peter is not called repaying !!!!!!! You have'nt got anything left to reapy with, hence all the debts, to repay interests !
@Raja Poras: Exactly, These people are obsessed with what lies to their west. Even their recent drama of Abu Jandan failed miserably. By yelling loud once, you can get sympathy, but by yelling always, you become a rolling stone that gathers no moss. Btw I must salute some of our firends to believe anything against Pakistan with closed eyes and brains. Indian Media continously feeds them lies about Pakistan and they countinously keep falling for it.
Prior to 26/11 the composite dialogue was moving slowly but it was moving. 26/11 has derailed the composite dialogue. 26/11 was a major tragedy and without its closure that satisfies both countries to expect and movement on the composite dialogue, trade or cricket ties will be naive. Now with the ATC rejecting the report of the Pakistani judicial commission we seem to be back to square one.If we want to move ahead we have to think out of the box.The ATC will not accept any evidence till the defendants have had an opportunity to cross examine the witnesses. India will not send Kasab & Abu Jundal to Pakistan (as they do not trust Pakistan will send them back).I feel allowing the accused to cross examine the witness in Mumbai from the trail court in Rawalpindi via video conferencing is the best option. Special situations demand special solutions. A representative from Pakistan High Commission (New Dehli) can submit an affidavit certifying the identity of the prosecution witnesses by being physically present on the other side.If the govts accord priority and a fast tract court is constituted closure that satisfies both countries can be achieved and we can move onto other issues.
Pakistan convicted Dr Shakil Khan Afridi (the person who helped US find Osama) within a matter of days if not months no matter what level of evidence was available against him. Here terrorists killed civilian people in front of TV cameras, one of the terrorists was captured alive & was proved to be a pakistani (besides others who died). 3 years down the line, Pakistan courts still seek evidence to prove that it was a conspiracy planned by Pakistani citizens. Pakistani prosecutors travel to India to check what evidence India has but do not have their own investigations find an ounce of evidence. What more proof does the world need to prove that Pakistan is not only harbouring terrorists, but also protecting them ?
@Iqbal: Blasphemy law has its own disadvantages, for your record except one all the accused were killed beyond judicial just like the black laws imposed in Occupied Jummu and Kashmir. So before commenting on someone else. Do have a look at your own backyard.
@Saad: One of the terrorist Ajmal Kasab is in indian jail along with one of the planner Abu Jundal. They are giving detailed information how the Pakistan governemnt planned and executed the attack. The last thing india wants is to allow Pakistan representative to murder these two people. And any way the court in Pakistan will never accept that their own government and army is a terrorist organisation. The chief of JUD/LET now has a price on his head from USA. The day is not far when all world sees the real face of Pakistan.
@p r sharma: Even after almost half a decade, Indians haven't been able to furnish anything other than rants on the issue. Confessional statements have least value under any law unless backed up by solid documentary/physical proofs. I still remember Indian authorities capturing alleged boats and communication equipment. But only thing out till now is the failed attempt to stage so called Kasab's interview which did the opposite to what it was supposed to do and exposed Indian drama. Indians have a habbit of hiding incompetence behind Pakistan Bashing. Do I need to mention what happened in Samghota Scam? India needs to realize that only by making hue and cry, nothing can be accomplished. I hope next time Indian authorities present something more concrete.
@Raja Poras: In Pakistan, the courts are free and all suspects have rights until proven guilty. India should put up or shut up.
Yes they certainly are free! How many convictions have they achieved in past five years in terror related cases ? NIL ! That should tell you as to the level of their operations ! Yet those cases were filed due to the mayham caused in your own country, on your own people and not abroad.
Pakistan is never going to accept it unless they get another abbotabad like operation. The Judiciary is a farce here.
Let the drone attacks begin...we are happy US is doing a job we like.
@Saad:
"Do they have something to hide??? If not, why are they hindering the process of justice?"
Two points: 1) Its always quid pro quo. India asked for the voice samples (only) of the guys who are in jail in Pakistan for the Mumbai attacks, especially of Lakhvi, considered to be one of the many voices on the call to the Terrorists held up at various places in Mumbai. Its just a simple voice recording. Does Pakistan something to hide?
The day Pakistan hands over this is the day India also obliges Pakistan.
2) India believes, rightly so, that Pakistan is merely going through the motions and not really serious about punishing the Terrorists.
Because if Pakistan were serious it would have already provided the voice sample to India, a simple, uncomplicated request.
As a result India is vary of providing access to witnesses which Pakistan might use to stall the process and create unnecessary problems.
Nothing is ever admissible in this Circus they call Judiciary ! As always India should have realised that the reluctance of actions by Pakistan was always going to be there, hence stop wasting time and start canceling all the future meetings and sporting activities between the nations ! God know that this is a Nation, that has lived in denials for past six decades and have still not learned anything even after loss of half of its territory in the east !
But evidence in a blasphemy case against Aisha Bibi from a person who wants to settle a score is permissible?
How low can Pakistan go? It is time for US, India, UK and Israel to take over this failing land.
@ Jat: "We always repay our loans."
Have you repaid the loans to China for 1962 war?? First clear the backlog.
We are gradually paying back your loans of East Pakistan massacres done by indian sponsored mukti bahini. 166 was only one installment of that. Take it like men and dont run like mice.
First, RAW completely failed to detect this impending attack. What excuse does an intelligence organization have when it fails to detect an attack from its erstwhile enemy. Is RAW complacent of complicit. How many heads rolled in RAW after 26/11?? Answer None. in fact all of them got promotions.
Second, Indian Navy and coast guard failed to protect their sea border (while they catch innocent Pakistani fishermen who drift into Indian waters, they could not catch the trawler which transported the gunmen to Mumbai) Is Indian Navy and coast guard complacent or complicit? How many heads rolled in Indian Navy and coast guard? Answer None, these fat cats are still around, good for nothing.
Third, Mumbai police and special forces totally failed to get hold of these gunmen for three days when they rampaged Mumbai. Were they complacent or incompetent. How many heads rolled in police and special forces. Answer: None.
India has even failed to identify the 9 other gunmen (other than Kasab). India has failed to give solid irrefutable evidence against suspects. India fails to give access to the defendant lawyers to cross examine witnesses. India only wants a sham trial and does not want justice.
In Pakistan, the courts are free and all suspects have rights until proven guilty. India should put up or shut up.
@Rita suzaanna:
i appreciate your comments that the people of Pakistan also want the culprits be punished. why can't you compel your govt. to verify the evidences viz. Call data & stmt of ajmal kasab, before rejecting on frivolous grounds.
regards,
vijay
@Rita Suzaanna YOU CREATED THIS, so don't ask for sympathy for what your creatures did to your people. FED UP TO HEAR YOUR SACRIFICES slogan....
We don't want your empathy or sympathy, we just want justice and non repetition, period.
Friendship, highly dependent on TRUST.
Why so cry over this ? India should first hang the ones who are in our jails, then ask pak court for the same.
@Ashutosh: The world shall also definitely know and understand the intentions of India because why India didn't allow Pakistani officials to ask Ajmal Qasab the questions related to 26/11's attacks for more investigation in this regard??????
The question really is, why won't the Indian authorities let the Pakistani lawyers cross examine the culprit and the officials concerned (Like it would be in any other case in the court of law)?
Do they have something to hide??? If not, why are they hindering the process of justice?
OK No problem. More ammunition for India to further discredit Pakistan around the world. And some Pakistani commentators don't want India to 'milk' Mumbai attacks.
That's exactly what India will do. India will escalate the costs to Pakistan through all channels available other than War. India has swallowed Mumbai and will swallow a few more attacks if it came its way. But, the cost to Pakistan will only keep increasing in terms of loss of trust, goodwill and reputation across the world.
So, if Pakistan thinks it is doing India a favor by prosecuting terrorists - It is its own problem.
It is impossible for India to provide evidence as these evidences are Pakistan. What India and others had been providing is leads. Pakistani agencies should work on these leads are find evidence. . It is very naive of Pakistan to say that evidences provided are not admissible. . Dose Pakistan believes that the world will not understand the intend of Pakistan?
166 will be returned with 1000% interest. How long will you be able to afford it ? We always repay our loans.
No evidence will be admissible in Pakistan's court and the excuse is that the Indian officials were not allowed to be cross examined by Pakistani lawyers of accused Pakistanis. Whether the evidence ( CD recording the conversations between the accused siting in Pakistan and the Mumbai attackers) is not prima facie admissible.?? . So long the intention is not unbiased, the relation between the neighbors will remain stressed.
Ganesh its Pakistan and we are not terrorists. Pakistan is only at the forefront of bad publicity and racism because of a war we did not want to fight. I dont think your comment had anything to do with it,Nobody in our country endorses the attack and we also want the culprits punished but it is for the government and the ppl to promote further tolerance and trust . comments like yours are astounding.
Pak will never leave its only point of strength against India - terrorism by "non state actors" and will never prosecute its terrorists.Full stop,The only language it understands is the language of US.