This is what he had to say immediately after the Mumbai attacks (I paraphrase, of course): “for the first time after 60 years, we have Pakistan under our thumb (Mumbai), with a living proof (Ajmal Kasab) that it is a state sponsoring terrorism; we should simply not let it go”. He has since gone on to remind India that it let Pakistan off too easily in 1971 after Pakistan had been comprehensively vanquished. Has this doctrine more or less guided Indian policy towards Pakistan in the post-Mumbai years? It most likely has and that is why I refer to his pronouncements as a doctrine.
In a recent discussion on an Indian TV channel at which I was present, I likened the Indian proclivity to hark back to Mumbai at the mere mention of Pakistan, to India “milking Mumbai”. It didn’t go down too well with my Indian colleagues since the three-and-a-half-year-old pain still seems real. Though it is not in their character, Indians persistently embellish that episode with emphatic sensitivity and as a great injustice that to them has still not found closure. No question on the morbidity that underwrote such heinous enactment, but even morbidity should find closure, especially if it involves two states whose past has a sad history of violence.
Novermber 26, 2008 is a reality. There had been a similar attack on the Indian parliament in 2001, and then a couple more in Kashmir. Pakistan has had its own share of similar embarrassing attacks on the GHQ and on the Mehran base in Karachi. Afghanistan is currently suffering through similar episodes of brief takeovers by militants of sensitive buildings for some hours, meant to embarrass security outfits. That doesn’t make the pain any less; just that it signifies the occurrences as common experience of these three nations as they fight off insurgencies and heinous episodes of terror emerging from multiple sources. They can do better by making coordinated efforts to fight this pervasive menace.
Zabiuddin Ansari, an Indian national, is alleged to have been the controller of the 10 men, who set sail for Mumbai. He carries a Pakistani passport, a Pakistani National Identity Card, as well as a NICOP, a National identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. Usually, an overseas Pakistani will have only a NICOP; the fact that he had both, goes to prove that legalising him in Pakistani colours was a duplicitous undertaking. That doesn’t change the fact of his involvement but here are a few other things to consider. Ansari was apprehended at the Delhi airport; what passport did he travel on? Not his Pakistani passport for sure? His neighbours know him well and were aware of his presence in Saudi Arabia as is most common with Indians and Pakistanis who locate to the Gulf as economic migrants. He couldn’t have been missing for too long? Lamentably, the Pakistani mission in Saudi Arabia has been known for pilfering passports to illegal Pakistani migrants who are desperate to formalise an identity. A NICOP, too, can be had for some additional gratification. That can make travelling to Pakistan a piece of cake. It is crucial to determine who facilitated him with all this. That also leaves a lot of questions about who exactly were his handlers?
The other most quoted evidence is from David Headley, a naturalised American with both Pakistani and Indian antecedence, and a confirmed double agent. He claims to have been guided by the ISI at a certain time, while he is now accepted more as a CIA man protected under FBI ownership. Direct access to him has been denied to the Indians who have had to depend on whatever testimony was shared by the Americans. Such question of probity in his conduct has made his testimony seriously suspect. A Chicago court held his testimony against his former friend Tahhawur Rana — charged with abetting the Mumbai attacks — lightly and refused to implicate him in anything more serious than culpability of misplaced friendly enthusiasm. Question: was he also an Indian agent?
Ansari, along with Kasab, clearly have greater relevance to what happened on 26/11. If Ansari is found guilty, he must be sentenced to death. But Ansari and Kasab also carry plenty of information that needs to be extracted, not only by India, but by Pakistan too. That is only possible if Pakistan is given access to both, or be allowed to join a joint investigation. India proffering a few documents as evidence will not hold in any Pakistani court unless those prosecuting have direct access to the purported evidence — that remains the touchstone for any judicial process. Why should it be any different in this case?
Less said of the control room in Karachi as evidence of state culpability, the better. Mr P Chidambram considers this enough to vilify Pakistan. Given his acquired knowledge from delving in the telecom sector, he should know that such a facility can easily be established by any entity, not just the state.
It is time to take a leaf out of Pakistan’s decision to move forward with the US after Salala. It is time to move away from the Parthasarathy doctrine for a better future.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 12th, 2012.
COMMENTS (88)
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It is time to take a leaf out of Pakistan’s decision to move forward with the US after Salala. It is time to move away from the Parthasarathy doctrine for a better future.
Sir,
Will some day you tell us, if the 'move away' was inspired by the Abu Jundal Doctrine of Saudi Arabia?
Please.
On the walls of Karachi Jamat ud Dawah has written," Jo India ka yaar hai, woh Islam ka ghaddar hai". Now Saudi Arabia has handed over Ansari to Indians ( shows SA is a "yaar" of India") what Jamat ud dawah jingoist says about Saudi Arabia, "Islam Ka ghaddr"? Nation waits for the answer. ,
The writer says, (Mumbai 26/11) “as a great injustice that to them has still not found closure …… and even morbidity should find closure, …” From Pakistan’s point of view, Pakistanis can think that the matter should stand closed, now. In a judicious way , now, take Indian point of view on board. India also wants closure of terrorists training, planning and execution of acts like Mumbai 26/11 (trainings and planning are still going on). Rest assure, the day you genuinely announce the verifiable closure of your part of the problem, Mumbai 26/11 stands closed from that day.
Kaalchakra
Sometimes I look at such hateful and bigoted comments as yours and those of fair and truthful Pakistani commentators and op-ed writers, I also wonder if you really live in the same country. When will most Pakistanis learn that being so hateful and bigoted is just plain wrong, no ifs and buts? I hope your breed is a minority in Pakistan
Babloo
Sometimes I look at such hateful comments as yours and those of fair and truthful Indians like Nandita and antanu g and wonder if you really live in the same country. When will most Indians learn that being so hateful and bigoted is just plain wrong, no ifs and buts?
Respected columnist, Ansari was extradited from Saudi Arabia. He was holding Pakistani passport and documents. How can you say, they were forged or fake and not provided by the Pakistani diplomats there. Were you present there ? We have the documents provided by Saudi Arabian officials. Are they wrong ? Abu jundul has been extradited from your brotherly country too recently. Are we both wrong ? Tell it to the Saudis. The matter of fact is they are intelligent and know their interests well. We buy oil with liquid cash and not beg for money from the world. Cheerio . You remind me of discussions which take place in ptv. Btw , I don't watch doordarshan .
The perfidy is too deep. Imagine this, Pakistani American Daood Gilany, is charged, prosecuted and punished in USA for colluding with LeT to perpetrate the 26/11 attack on Mumbai. He makes damning statements in court implicating Pakistan. India seek to question him. India is given access. Pakistan never seeks to question him as part of its investigation in 26/11 attacks. After all, Mr Headley was working with other key planners of the attack. However Pakistan totally ignores him and the damning evidense presented in Chicago court. Now the only inference that can be drawn is that Pakistan thinks it cannot learn anything new from Mr Headley, that it already does not know. In fact, it knows lot more than even Headley, who was just one actor, in the planned 26/11 attacks.
A very good and timely piece. The Pakistani left speaks as if India is ready to make peace with India and the only thing stopping this are the right wing extremists in Pakistan, whereas this is not really true. Mainstream India is pretty hawkishly anti-Pakistan, and it takes two to make peace.
One of the nicest, clearest, most honest articles ever written on the tragedy of Mumbai in which a few Indians, driven by unremitting Indian atrocities on other Indians, decided to implement justice. It's hard to believe that Indians can't get over such a simple thing and come up with such detestable things as the Parthasarthy Doctrine (which I have learnt is actually the official position of India now). Given such a sad state of affairs in its neighborhood, Pakistan is very lucky indeed to have intelligent people like Shahzad Ch. guiding Pakistani opinion.
@@plarkin: "David Headley, you’ll find, is a born US citizen and not a naturalized one. I hope you understand the difference."
He had a US mother and Pakistani father. His name until he changed it in 2006 was Daood Gilani. He was raised in Pakistan and went to school there.
@Hem "The author of the article has mentioned the attacks in India (Mumbai 2008, Parliament 2008 etc), attacks in Pakistan (GHQ, Mehran base in Karachi) and attacks in Afghanistan, all in one breath, but he has very conveniently forgotten to mention the identity of the attackers; I am happy to remind him that the killers were all Muslims, and most of them came from Pakistan and Afghanistan".
For your information Afghanistan has been a victim of these terrorists for the last 30 years. There is no evidence of Afghan terrorists conducting operations in Pakistan or India. Get your facts straight and stop stereotyping. Evidently your hatred of Muslims is clouding your judgment.
David Headley, you'll find, is a born US citizen and not a naturalized one. I hope you understand the difference.
Well said Chaudhry. Indians have to forget 3 and 1/2 years old mumbai attacks. Pakistanis have to forget 65 years old kashmir issue.
Perhaps Mr Chaudhary or other commenters can assist in answering the following questions: - why has there been no progress in the trial of the 26/11 accused in Pakistan? - why does Pakistan hand over terrorists to the US but after three years has used one excuse after another not to even provide voice samples of the accused in Pakistan? - instead of asking for never-ending proof from India, why does Pakistan not interrogate the accused and give India some new information about the other conspirators? - how can Pakistan be credible in its denials when it has connsistently lied and denied all involvement? President Zardari was the most ludicrous after Kasab was arrested and Pakistan removed his family from their homes and denied any connection to him.He said that Kasab cannot be a Pakistani as he does not look like a Pakistani :)
Milking 26/11 is so extremely offensive to Indians. By postponing trials and lying, one think the issue will go away after sometime but it will not. Justice must be done and the killing of US citizens in 26/11 ensures that the FBI will never let this matter rest.
Also, I would suggest that saying Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism is a disingenuous comment when talking about 26/11. We all grieve for the vistims of terror in Pakistan but those attacks have not been carried out by Indian state or non-stae actors. The comment is not pertinent to any discussion on 26/11. It is impossible to have good relations unless justice is served.
I did see the clip on NDTV and I would encourage readers to do so. Some guy called Zaki was yelling and being very inolerant. He kept saying if you want to live in 2008, then please. What a pathetic response to people seeking justice. The matter will not go away. FBI has said that too.
Smartest thing for Pakistan, in my view, is to bite the bullet, come clean, prosecute the perpetrators and move on. It will stop the the embarrassing daily disclosures.
@antanu g: Sorry Wikileaks covered the period prior to 2009. The access to HEadley was in 2011. So while you may mean well, you are factually incorrect on this one.
It is time to take a leaf out of Pakistan’s decision to move forward with the US after Salala. It is time to move away from the Parthasarathy doctrine for a better future.
A.Is Mumbai a border post?
B. Did the Mumbaikars fire upon the LeT?
C. Was Salala attacked by 'non-state actors'?
D. Did USA deny Salala incident?
E. Was India an ally of Pakistan on 26/11?
F. And is India being offered free transit of goods across Pakistan for 'moving on'?
So how are these comparable?
@Antanu, What you are saying is incorrect. Wikileaks does not cover the period of June ,2011 when India had 7 day direct access to Headley alias Daood Geelani. The wikileaks predate it. You can look in wikipedia on Headley and you will see India got full and direct access to question him. There are also numerous news reports from June ,2011 when India had the full access. Just google "NIA questions Headley". @Shahzad Chaudhri, I would also advise that you read up wikipedia on Twahhar Rana. You may learn lot of very 'interesting' facts. After all Mr Rana is a deserter from the Pak army because of his refusal to be posted in Siachen.
Extending the defense analyst's line, would this be a good time for Pakistan to let go of Kashmir? Does Mr. Chaudhry accept that the "bleed India" strategy has wreaked enough havoc on Pakistan itself and the rest of the world and it's not going to work any more? I'm calling your bluff, Mr. Chaudhry, and the least graceful thing you can do is respond. (whatever your position, you'll be respected for it whether I agree or not, but you must respond!)
Sir
I am glad that you consider militancy a "pervasive menace" for Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, and feel that the three should coordinate their efforts to fight it.
You also say that perhaps Pakistan should be allowed to join a "joint investigation" with India into 26/11.
A couple of questions arise in my mind.
With who in Pakistan should India and Afghanistan "coordinate" their efforts to fight the pervasive menace? And how can it be ensured that this agency/individual/department will do what is required to tackle the menace? If India were to allow Pakistan to join a "joint investigation", how can it be ensured that the Pakistani agency which joins the investigation will act with the goal of bringing the perpetrators to book, and that it will be allowed to do so by the Pakistani establishment?I humbly request your views on these questions.
@Author, In these four years since the Mumbai attacks, it has become crystal clear to us that Pakistan is not serious in having good relations with India and putting an end to 'Bleed India Through A Thousand Cuts Doctrine'. You don't tell us to move on, sir. No, we shall not move on until we have got justice for the victims of 26/11 massacre. If it means India will have to 100 years for the justice, we shall wait. But we won't forget the Mumbai attacks without getting justice that we deserve. It's high time when the Pakistani state and Pakistani people got out of denial and called spade a spade. For the international community ain't ready to tolerate terrorism anymore. Pakistan will have to bring to justice the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks and destroy the terror machine operating on its soil or it should get ready to face total international isolation and become a pariah state. Period
@Babloo: While I too have reservations about the author's points of view, you must correct yourself on Hadley interrogation case. Earlier it was claimed that our sleuths had access to Hadley for investigation but later it was disclosed they never got the access to him. However as a face saving formula US authorities obliged us by announcing that WE had access to Hadley. Later it was denied and was also disclosed through WIKILEAKS. It was embrassing but our very mature media did not highlight the news and newer repeated.
Osama was found in pakistan..if India follows the same route as US, then Dawood, Hafiz Saeed, Major Mir and all other names responsible for the attacks on India would be found in pakistan too. So we don't need to prove if Ansari and Kasab are indian or they travelled on pakistani passport or not..we can very well do it without consent from the pakistan establishment and the state actors responsible, if that is what pakistan wants and prolong a cold for for a few more generations till the time pakistan disintegrates like russia..better yet cooperate and look to a brighter future!!
The Shahzad doctrine: Forget the evidence, look at what we say, not what we do.
@Critical:
While I agree with your message about print media, why do you have bring up religion so often. Almost no one in the Silicon Valley cares about religion, almost everyone is agnostic/ libertarian. I am not talking of service/IT employees, or lowly tech workers, but people who invent technologies, create companies and change the world.
My mind was pretty much blown when I saw Riaz Haq posting on Steve Jobs' demise with headline stating that his biological father was a Muslim. As if that was the most distinction worthy thing about him. For those who don't know: Haq is a prolific Pakistani blogger who has been in the Valley for a while.
Indians doesnt ever listen to Pakistan point of view, they always think RAW is so innocent and never ever operate in Paksitan covertly and inflict similar actions against Pakistan. The fact is both countries carry out such acts, and these should stop. the myth militants can only operate from Pakistan is just absured!
You can fool some people some time ... You cant fool all the people all the time !!! you are wasting time by wrting such type of foolish articles... MR Air Marshal.. as readers of this artilcle are not only Pakistanis ... Do u really know that this atricle in on the net and everybody other than Pakistnis too can access this .... You seem to be ignorant of so many facts .. You are not even a cheap spin doctor !!!
@Shahzad Chaudhry: I actually watched the interview online, and was puzzled when you brought up Two-Nation theory to show that Indians were not cooperating. Did you really had to stoop so low?
” It is time to take a leaf out of Pakistan’s decision to move forward with the US after Salala.”
No sir, India will never go against its supreme parliament's unanimous resolution and commit sacrilege. PM Gilani promised to implement the parliament decision in "letter and spirit", but what it did to "move forward with US" was exactly opposite. India has no such compulsions specially when it has to go against any specific parliaments resolutions, and join the league of Pakistan. In fact, this act of Pakistan only goes to prove, that nobody should believe Pakistan, even when there is a parliament resolution, as they are likely to go back even from those sacred words.
This is the officiall version how people are brainwashed and will be converted into history textbooks.
@Rao: "How come not many are coming out in support of the author? Are there no knowledgeable people to rebut the arguments of all these India supporters? I think that the author himself should respond to these critics and provide a reasonable explanation to all inconsistencies being pointed out to him."
Perhaps the knowledgeable people 'KNOW" that what India is stating is true and that there is no factual evidence available to rebut. The author too may find it difficult to rebut when confronted with facts which are stubborn things.
there is old joke, When they commission you at kakul, they not only shave your head they take your brains out. I thought the Air force was slightly better After reading this from Air marshal retd. I have no doubt out it
By the time I reached last few lines I felt nauseated and threw up. ET should not publish the services people every day if you have to keep the standards up.
Sir
If passage of time alone can bring closure to everything I suppose it should also bring closure to Maharaja Hari Singh's accession to India 63 years back?
No?
The author wants to create a virtual reality by implying that ansari was "apprehended" at the Delhi airport. No. He was not "apprehended". He was arrested by the Saudis and handed over to India over the stringent objections of the Pakistan government which claimed him as one of its own. And other factual "mistakes" in this article have been pointed out by others who know better. Parthasarathy, to his credit, won't be caught saying things which are blatantly untrue.
Addendum:
My Indian friends conveniently gloss over the crucial Chicago trial of Tahhawar Rana. Hadlee's testimony wasn't given the credibility because of Hadlee's suspect status. There was huge noise then too within India on how the Court made light of the Conspiracy theories that the case had become. When you conduct Foreign Policy through such theories and add-ons, the basic truth gets hidden somewhere in there. I know Mr Parthasarthy was particularly disappointed on the case almost dismissed at Chicago.
Hope, you remember this, at least.
will you guys ever change?
@Indians, I finally get it. This is just an attempt by the author to fool himself. He is the intended audience himself and wrote this only for his personal consumption, not you. So please understand.
Columns like this prove that facts are considered 'manufactured goods" by some columnists. There should be some minimum accountablity.
@Atulya: The author has made a joke of himself. Sometimes it is better to keep quiet. Salala incident is just a reminder that USA could bend your hand either ways. Clinton said sorry and you have not got a penny more and will continue to seek money.
@Rao: One can easily raise the voice and win in a news channel talk show.....But in print journalism,you can get screwed if you provide wrong information without proper references...
Jewish owned 'Google' has made things easier for people to understand between truth and lies
How come not many are coming out in support of the author? Are there no knowledgeable people to rebut the arguments of all these India supporters? I think that the author himself should respond to these critics and provide a reasonable explanation to all inconsistencies being pointed out to him.
Pakistanis are too smart, they have figured out our top secret Parthsarthy doctrine. We need to try something new. We may never conquer Pakistan. Ghazwa-e-Pakistan will always remain a dream.
@Hi There:
Pakistan has gone deaf; incapable of listening to the sounds of daily drones in her own backyard.
W t f I just read ? I can't believe the spin. I think India would need 100+ yrs for Pakistan to come to the terms. Pakistan at least has to say sorry the way US did to Pakistan
Dear Mr Shahzad Chaudhry.
Every time I start reading your article or listen to you on TV, I tell myself that this gentleman looks wise enough and seems to have the credentials as well. So he will talk some sense. But more often than not I get disappointed no end. I just can not understand why you will provide factually incorrect information and why you will bend facts to insinuate and perpetuate lies. In the above article you are comparing apple and oranges and I can not understand how is it possible that you can not see it. The only explanation that comes to my mind is that perhaps you have to keep the sensibilities of your domestic audience in mind. Which may seem fair to you but to us Indians and to the peace process, it just doesnt help. It looks to us that if the opinion makers in Pakistan are feeding lies or worse living in denial then there is no hope. There is just no point in putting resources in trying to get Pakistan on board. The argument that you present that because Mumbai happened many years ago so India should forget it, will not really work because what we want is elimination of terror attacks originating in Pakistan. Forgetting Mumbai because it happened many years ago is no guarantee that another one is not waiting around the corner. The attacks have been regular and systematic so forgetting one is not solving anything. So my humble request, figure out ways to eliminate the evil in host country because even if india forgets this one, the next one will happen soon enough and the peace process will be set back by twenty years and the status quo then will hurt Pakistan more than India. Hope you understand that you help your country more by letting your countrymen confront the truth than by hiding it. And also hope that you play less to the gallery and more to your integrity.
@Hi There
'Who cares what indians say.'
The author cares, for sure.
@Hi There: Who cares ? Why don't you ask General Niazi ?
Sir SC, you are trying to pull wool not just over the two eyes but the entire body of the readers.
US provided India, full and direct access, to Daood Geelani alias Mr Headley http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article452438.ece
The National Investigation Agency (NIA) team that travelled to the United States from New Delhi to interrogate Mumbai terror attacks suspect David Coleman Headley was provided with seven days of access to him between June 3 and June 10, authorities confirmed on Thursday evening. According to an official statement from the Indian embassy here, the team was returning to India after a “useful” visit. Sources on both the U.S. and Indian sides confirmed that access to Mr. Headley had been provided. In particular, the U.S. Department of Justice said, “Indian law enforcement officials were provided direct access to interview David Coleman Headley.”
A couple of points: 1. Everything mentioned on Zabiuddin Ansari is a lot of hokum. He was extradited by India after proving his DNA was Indian. Given that he had no Indian documents (and clearly did not want to return) there was no other proof to ensure his repatriation, although enough voice samples exist to prove that he was the handler the 10 PAKISTANI men who wreaked havoc in Mumbai in 2008 causing the death of 166 innocent individuals. 2. I would tend to agree with Mr. G Parthasarathy upto a certain extent, in that India has been extremely poor at sharing Pakistan's perfidy with the world till Mumbai; the global attention that the incident received and subsequent evidence from Headley as well as Kasab have helped in altering the perception of Pakistan as a mere recipient of terror to the perpetrator. This has been useful not only to India but also to Afghanistan; Pakistan's singularly unhelpful behavior since then has only served to underscore its complicity. 3. ...just that it signifies the occurrences as common experience of these three nations as they fight off insurgencies and heinous episodes of terror emerging from multiple sources. That is not all that is common - the source of this terrorism is Pakistan in all 3 cases. 4. Less said of the control room in Karachi as evidence of state culpability, the better. But naturally, the less said of anything that smacks of official involvement, the better. If you can believe the control room, I assume that he has just chosen to lie about Hafiz Saeed and the gentlemen from the ISI who happened to be passing by?
"It is time to take a leaf out of Pakistan’s decision to move forward with the US after Salala. It is time to move away from the Parthasarathy doctrine for a better future" Pakistan is ready to move on because 1. Pakistan wants a bilion plus dolars from US 2. It wants US to help get it an IMF loan 3. Hillary's official statement says she is sorry for the loss and ' both sides acknowledged their mistakes' in other words .Pakistan side had contributed to the Salala incident and this was acknowledged by Ms. Khar. 4. US has not unilaterally started 3 wars in Pakistan or sent terrorists to attack Pakistan's parliament or sent thousands of terrorists to Pakistan (the way Pakistan sent to Kashmir) and make a million people homeless (as the Pandits were in Kashmir).
There is an ongoing history of aggression on Pakistan's side towards India. Thus 26 Nov 2008 and simply not comparable to Salala.
India would not be able to 'milk' this incident as you state if Pakistan made serious efforts to convict the people in Pakistan. But when Hafiz Saeed openly addresses gathering in Rawalpindi and Islamad and gives hate speeches then it is salt on our wounds.
Despite that India gave a waiver to Pakistan on the Euro trade benefits even though Pakistan has not followed through on its commitment (MFN to India). India was willing to simplify visa regime but your own interior minister prevented it. So really speaking India HAS moved on in the sense that it is willing to discuss other issues. But ofcourse this issue wil not be forgotten until and unless Pakistan convicts the concerned people.
Is Mr P Chidambram the same liar who said Surjeet Singh was not an indian spy? We should stop taking these lunatics seriously. Anyways, Indian trolls will be infesting the comment section in 3...2...1
The author has to get his facts straight - Ansari was deported from Saudi Arabia and did not travel voluntarily. I read an article in this very news paper where the author(Kamran xxxxx) alluded to the fact that the ISI chief and the PM actually hard lobied with Saudi Arabia to prevent Ansari's deportation. The notion that the attacks in Pakistan are somehow the same as the ones in India is misplaced for many reasons and foremost amongst them is the fact that attacks in Pakistan were made by Pakistanis(your own people) whereas the attacks in India were Engineered by active support by state agencies from Pakistan. This is a huge difference.
who cares what indians say.
It has become a cliche to move on. Yet Pakistan time and again through non-state actors inflicts tragedy on neighboring countries like India. Insufficient evidence is the official state line. It is difficult in Pakistan to convict any one for murder. I like to know what evidence is missing to convict the murderer of Mr. Salman Taseer. There are many more examples especially related to sectarian killings.
One problem with moving further on its relations with India (and I am for it) is, who should one deal with. The military, the ISI, the elected politicians with a myopic view or the likes of JeT. Last time there was change a foot, the Pak military sabotaged with Kargil. Pakistan needs to stabilize its institutions to move forward with its relations with any country, US or India.
Yes, Yes, it's all Parthasarathy's fault that Pakistan has been breeding and sending terrorists to India!! Wow!!
This article is nothing but milking the facts to soften the blowback of Abu Jundal’s revelation. For e.g. author should address the following questions: How come Abu Jundal’s Pakistani passport states that he does not require VVISA to enter Pakistan. A stolen passport does not carry such a stamp. (b) If this guy has stolen passport than why Pakistani government tried to convince the KSR authority that he should not be sent to India as he is a Pakistani citizen. I am sure Pakistani government does not waste its resources to person carrying a stolen passport.
Indians have a depressive and frustrative feeling that for 65 years as a nation we have been soft in our various dealings with international community which gave us a repute of being a "soft power". In the years to come as India become economically and militarily more powerful one should expect a different India in the future given that we love America's carrot-and-stick policy, admire US Navy SEALs Eagle-like operation, hold Israel and Mossad in high regard (Gosh, if we could take out the non-state and state actors like that). We want to give what you call "Parthasarathy doctrine" a chance at least once (what is wrong in trying?) and it is tempting because Pakistan is now in a hole and it is time we start digging the hole deeper.
Do we see another chapter in the ongoing "self-denial" saga so very identified by Pakistani elite, read, representatives of the so called establishment. Yes, India can be a vicious and vile neighbour with horrid designs, what about Pakistan? Does Mr Chaudhry realy think that Pakistan is an innocent victim or a bystander? Why the whole world (including the majority islamic countries) treat Pakistan as non-entity at best and a pariah state at worst. There is a powerful word that each smart Pakistani must learn and imbibe - INTROSPECTION - you will start finding lot of answers within rathen than passing the buck on to others while keeping your heads in ever deepening sand!
Heartless pakistani. Always in denial.
Should we ask the US to stop milking 9/11 too? More than taking these perpetrators to trial, India is interested in Pakistan taking concretes steps to ensure this doesnt happen again. Why would India want to move on when Pakistan even refuses to acknowledge that these attacks were planned in Pakistan?
Mr. Chaudhry, it is plain to Indians and the world that Islamic supremacism is behind the Pakistani disregard/casual treatment of violence against India - ignoring that or equating ISI sponsored Jihad with folks like TTP is just intellectually and morally bankrupt.
Whenever Indians are trying to heal their wounds of Mumbai, the article like this reopens the wound. Needless to say , Parthsarthy is right, The more you try to talk sense, the more nonsensical questions you face. No wonder, Indians are fools. The problem is in the gene. We are two different psyches. We should live as two nations without becoming friend. We could never become friends! Typically yours my lord Chaudhry!
Mr Shahzad Chaudhary is long accustomed to docile WKK's(Wagah Candle Kissers) from the Indian side when he meets them for Track-II diplomacy so when he meets a plain fact speaking guy is it any wonder that he he finds it difficult to handle.
He says Indians are persistently embellish the 26/11 incident, by saying this isnt he trivializing an act of state sponsored terrorism? He also is trying to needlessly equate the acts of state sponsored terrorism in India by pakistan with acts of violence in Pakitsan which have been done by disgruntles elemnts of its own establishments (Mehran) and also by other monsters it itself trained and who are no longer in its control (TTP)
He is then insinuating that Zabiuddin Ansari being a Indian National,pakistan had nothing to do with the 26/11 incident.He is willfully trying to obscure a fact by saying that Ansari got the documents through fraudulent means. The fact is pakistan is supporting Ansari and gave him the false documents.As a matter of fact the Pkaistani Consultae officer in Saudi Araabi on knowing of Ansari arrest and impending transfer to india tried to prevnt it by claiming that Ansari is a Pakistani citizen and hence should not be repatriated to India. In fact pakistan is trying the same stunt with another of Ansari's accomplice Fasih who is presently in custody in Saudi Arabia.
Chaudhary is needlessly waxing eloquent on evidence and court procedure and claims that Chidambaram has experience in the Telecom sector and should know that the control room could have been established anywhere (and hence was not in pakistan), well the same chidambaram has also asked for Voice samples which the Pakistan side knows if given would be the clinching evidence and would prove the involvement of state actors in the 26/11 operation.Is it any wonder that it is not providing it?
Lastly he makes the laughable suggestion of India learning from Pakistan and moving ahead as the later did after the incident in Salala. Really Mr Chaudhary, you are trying to make a virtue out of necassity. pakistan had no other option but to move ahead after salala as it Needs Money from the US and other multilateral agencies to balance its budget. It simply had no other choice.
Here is link to Indian investigators offered full access to Headley, who has alleged in Chicago court that he was working for ISI.
NIA-'s seven day access to Headley useful.
The National Investigation Agency (NIA) team that travelled to the United States from New Delhi to interrogate Mumbai terror attacks suspect David Coleman Headley was provided with seven days of access to him between June 3 and June 10, authorities confirmed on Thursday evening. According to an official statement from the Indian embassy here, the team was returning to India after a “useful” visit. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article452438.ece
Air Marshal you are either too naive, or too clever. You had no qualms about writing this, "But Ansari and Kasab also carry plenty of information that needs to be extracted, not only by India, but by Pakistan too." By Pakistan ? I say well done sir, but not enough.
Who are you trying to convert here ?
The author of the article has mentioned the attacks in India (Mumbai 2008, Parliament 2008 etc), attacks in Pakistan (GHQ, Mehran base in Karachi) and attacks in Afghanistan, all in one breath, but he has very conveniently forgotten to mention the identity of the attackers; I am happy to remind him that the killers were all Muslims, and most of them came from Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Air Marshal jee:
Ansari's voice matches on the voice captured by the West spy agencies talking from Pakistan to the Pakistanis shooting and killing in Mumbai. Ansari was handed over by the Saudis to the Indians over the objections of the Pakistan who was claiming Ansari to be a Pakistani. Sir jee we have to stop lying and making excuses. No one, not even the stupid Pakistanis believe your type of analysis any more. We have been caught with our pants down, please please have mercy on us and don't make the world bend us over and take advantage for that is where all this lying is going to lead.
"Ansari was apprehended at the Delhi airport; what passport did he travel on? Not his Pakistani passport for sure? " Dear author this line shows how ill informed you are. You are just trying to make your point here with your absolutely absurd logics as you try to do in TV interviews and debates. Ansari did not travel to New Delhi. He was arrested and handed over to India by Saudi Arabia. By the way for your information he did got deported with his pakistani passport and NICOP which are now in the possession of Indian law enforcement agencies. I must say here that you are no other than common pakistanis who love to live in denial and made deriving conspiracy theory their national game. By the way it is true that India let Pakistan off too easily in 1971 and you should be thanks for that.
There are many incorrect assertions here. I will start with a factual one that cannot be contradicted. Rferring to Daood Gilani alisa Headley, the author says "Direct access to him has been denied to the Indians who have had to depend on whatever testimony was shared by the Americans." False. Indian investigators were allowed one full week of unfettered access to him in USA. Also, how can one compare attacks on India, by Pakistan based militants, allegedly supported by the state by attacks in Pakistan by Pakistan based militants, is beyond my comprehension.
What a piece by sir
Per the authors statement "Direct access to him (David Headley) has been denied to the Indians" PLEASE look up DAVID HEADLEY on Wikipedia and see the Section titled " Interrogation of David Headley by (Indian) NIA in the US! If Pakistan wants acces to Kasab/Headley/Ansari, then maybe they should volunteer to give India ACCESS to various Pakistanis we all know!