Another reason to hate the US?
All four men are British. Of these, two are Muslims. Of the two, one has Asperger’s syndrome, a kind of autism. He writes touching poems from jail — about scrubbing toilets while prison guards demand to know, “Where is your God now?” and about wanting to travel back in time and tripping his mother when she was pregnant with him so she would miscarry.
Accused of running a jihadist website based on undisclosed evidence, Babar Ahmad and Talha Ahsan have been in UK prisons for eight and six years respectively, fighting extradition. Evidence in their cases was believed to be insufficient to try them in the UK, according to the Crown Prosecution Service, making the former the longest serving prisoner to be held in Britain without charge.
The allegations against them are serious, and no one supporting their cause is arguing otherwise. Their only demand is that these men be tried and convicted in the UK, where they committed the crimes. This does not seem unreasonable and while all British citizens need to be concerned about this treaty, I am more worried about the two British Muslims.
Why? Maajid Nawaz, co-founder and chairman of counter-extremism think thank Quilliam and a former member of the Hizbut Tahrir, explained: “In the ashes of the war on terror, the extradition of Ahmed and Ahsan will be seized upon by Islamist extremists to further increase the void between Muslim communities and their government.”
Why isn’t the US paying attention to this? They are quick to strike us with drones, which reportedly kill more innocent people than militants, which some may say is a cure, but what about tackling and preventing terrorism in other arenas? What about giving these men their due rights by allowing them to be tried in the UK, rather than shipping them off to the US?
The men in question will most likely be locked up in ADX Florence, a ‘super-max’ prison in the US state of Colorado, subjected to ‘special administrative measures’ (SAMS) and tried for crimes committed nowhere near the US mainland. According to David Bermingham, a British banker who was extradited to the US in 2006, chances are that their families may never see them again because they, unlike him, don’t have the contacts and money to get out of this situation.
If the European Court of Human Rights could be convinced that the treatment these men will be given in the US constitutes torture, they could stop the extradition. Unfortunately, it has ruled that this is in fact not going to be the case.
There are many who believe that over the years there has been a constant watering down of fundamental rights in America and that extradition to the US is akin to extradition to Purgatory. Pakistani-American Syed Fahad Hashmi who is now serving a 15-year prison sentence under SAMS gets to see one parent every two weeks and is allowed to read only censored newspapers 30 days after publication. He, too, was held for almost three years without being charged prior to his trial. In principle, many MPs in the UK oppose the terms of the treaty that governs extradition to the US, yet reform is not about to take place any time soon because that would mean a high diplomatic cost for London.
We are all stakeholders in the war on terror and we need to ensure that terrorism is fought in a manner that helps defeat the terrorists. However, the measures used in fighting the war should not give people additional reason to hate the US. In Nawaz’s words: “Humane interventions can make a world of difference in de-radicalising people.”
Published in The Express Tribune, June 1st, 2012.
COMMENTS (41)
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If bringing terrorists to books is going to lead the Muslim to radicalization then it is time that appropriate laws are formulated for Muslims for democratic societies to cope up with menace. The first step is to treat persons advocating directly or indirectly lean treatment to terrorists (no matter what the logic is) as terror abettors.
@G.A.
that has pushed the West to adopt such unjust hostile policies towards Muslims.Why British and Americans do not follow this attitude towards other communities in the world because they are not as much part of their plans, plus other communities are becoming sort of accomplices with them with the passage of time…..
Have you any idea how many Muslims have found 'full citizenship' with rights to get elected to Parliament and all kinds of offices, in the West?
And how many have found the same in Birader Islamic Mumalik of Saudi Arabia? Or Iran?
And how many Islamic countries allow non-Muslims the same level of freedom?
Would you like to revisit 'unjust and hostile policies towards Muslims'?
@Dark Knight: Well I did not said the word jealousy, you know it better then.....it may be jealousy or greed to accumulate power or some kind of horror or may be all of these that has pushed the West to adopt such unjust hostile policies towards Muslims. Why British and Americans do not follow this attitude towards other communities in the world because they are not as much part of their plans, plus other communities are becoming sort of accomplices with them with the passage of time.....
It's a problem between British and American government and let them solve it by themselves. I don't really think that we can do or try anything to make ourselves part in the issues that do not concern us in the least. I'd think if there is an extridtion treaty between those two countries, it's fine to handover these terrorists or promoters of terrorism to the US to take care off.
@Mirza. Couldn't have expressed better!!
The undue hatred which is being shown to Muslims by West and their allies is making it more and more evident that they never were and nor will be well our wishers or see us prospering.....first they create some kinda terror drama (with out giving evidence or making fair investigations) in front of their public to attain their evil aims and then they start exploiting their targets by making those terror dramas their justification for doing so. This is not the first example of unjust treatments towards Muslims and some times other communities, history and especially today's world is full of such instances. The people whose case even do not have sufficient evidence are being ruthlessly prisoned on verbal crime charges and the ones from their own community like Andres Breivik who killed more than 70 people in the open, is given full platform to justify himself...no one in western media is questioning about his partners or organisation.....
@Sunil: Since muslims will never get justice at the hands of evil non-muslims (unlike the amazing grace of muslims and how they treat us non-muslims). I suggest these 2 muslim gentlemen along with thier supporters and families be transferred to a Muslim country of thier origination.
Excellent satire,my friend but consider this: Demand is for them to be tried in UK which is a non muslim country (last time I checked); that's where the crime took place so how is that demand unreasonable??.
Don't get me wrong ,if found guilty they should be punished:But I find US demand unreasonable :not trusting even UK's ablility to try suspects for a crime that took place on UK soil. So US alone is able to try the terrorism Suspects around the Globe, how justful.
Dear moderator, I don't know why you are holding my 4 comments I posted about 3 hours ago. If you do not intend to publish them then just clear "Your comment is awaiting moderation", so that I move on.
@Mirza: Our hearts ache for the fanatic extremists, even though we are highly educated and modern on the surface.
Fanatic is the one who advocates killings of human beings,doesn't matter if it is in support of an ideaology or agiasnt it.
Lala Gee so you agree that it is a covert war between islam vs west (analogy you have given yourself about west vs communism) If that is the case then you should not be complaining about these legal procedure, muslims kill infidels, infidels kill muslims thats how war goes. There are already few in the forum advocating caliphate.
@Lala Gee
What you said, @Mirza Very impressive autobiography of yours.
What you meant, 'I have no answer, Mirza.
It's not too difficult principle to understand. You can't put out fire with fire,killings with more killings,terrosrism with violence ,militancy with militarism,ignorance with hatred. More than ten years of war on terror is sufficient evidence for this. If you can't do anything about the one's who groom them then killing the groomed one is not the asnwer,it does't affect the mentors a one bit( you actually strengthen the mentors by rewarding them in the shape of financial Aid). .
Pakistani public fervently want to believe anything that would justify their hatred for America/India/Israel/Jews/Ahmedis/hindus/RAW/CIA/"Them".
Since the foundation of the country was based on opposition and hatred towards India, the pakistani public require an entity to oppose and hate or else there is fear of collapse. This hate has been institutionalized and indoctrined into students and the general public from a very young age. Hence the average pakistani feels he needs something to hate to be relevant or to belong to a particular group. The anti-India has transformed into anti-Them. Them could be a country i.e. US/India/Israel or Them could also be another ethnic/religion group depending on the current situation.
This has been encouraged by the spread of wahabism from Saudi Arabia. There is a bedouin saying "I against my brother, my brothers and I against my cousins, then my cousins and I against strangers"..
When there are no strangers left you will fight against your cousins. When there are no cousins left, you will fight with your brothers. This is precisely what is happening in Pakistan. You killed/drove away the "strangers" (read Minorities). Now you will fight with your "cousins" (read shia/sunni, ahmedis, balochs etc) and when there are no "cousins" left to fight against you are doomed to fight among yourself
@Mirza:
Very impressive autobiography of yours.
And why is this a reason 'to hate the US'? If the UK wants to extradite a UK citizen to stand trial for an offence for which jurisdiction is granted by the extradition treaty, why is that a reason to 'hate the US'? This almost seems like a poor piece of propaganda, pouncing upon the current anti-US sentiment prevalent in Pakistan. The author should have either highlighted how SAMS and detention in the US constitute 'inhuman or degrading treatment' beyond that expected of criminal justice OR (and preferably so) argued that the measures adopted by the British criminal system breached his right to a fair trial. In the US, they'll also get a trial which measures up to international legal standards. As for the crime itself, one would hope that before condemning a criminal justice system, the author would give more details than 'running a jihadist website' and a link to a Guardian article.
@Dark Knight:
"Sorry if my comment is bitter, but I will never ever have any mercy or any humane feeling for those cowards and their likes."
But you seem to be quite sympathetic towards those cowards who killed 90,000 Kashmiri Muslims, or those who killed 2000 in Muslims in Gujrat and committed arson of tens of thousands of homes and property. Even your dharmic brethren Sikhs didn't escape your wrath in 1984. All are waiting justice yet to be done.
Now lets talk about the 15 Muslim Pakistan soldiers beheaded by the Taliban in May.
@John B:
"US demands that UK citizens committed jihad propaganda against US sitting in UK. US thinks that it is crime against US committed in UK."
Since when doing propaganda become a felony and federal crime? Or, just Muslims are not allowed to do that, while US and all the Western countries are free to do whatever crimes they deem fit in the name of national interests, How about your concerted propaganda war against Socialism and Communism. What about your propaganda of WMDs proved to be based on blatant lies. Are you going to punish anybody behind these crimes as well or just Muslims deserve the punishment.
We live in the West but want to change it into an oppressive country like M. East. We live in West but are not faithful to the people and their laws. We benefit from the West but we feel the pain of the terrorists and fanatics. We were not happy in combined India, we were not happy living in Pakistan and move to the West, we are not happy in there despite all the rights and privileges. Our hearts ache for the fanatic extremists, even though we are highly educated and modern on the surface. We are dependent on the US but want to dictate their treaties, policies and laws. We harbor terrorists yet we are upset when they are discovered. We deny, lie and never tell the truth. I can keep going but most can take a hint. .
@ blackjack They are already there "Fixing" it for 11 years
Author is pretending to be a concerned Briton when, in fact, her real interest in this matter is as a Pakistani and a Muslim. Western countries need to be concerned about such traitors with passports since they undermine Western & secular values.
I love the Aspergers reference for sympathy. I won't even get into the details of why it's silly but, those people usually have above average intelligence when it comes to their interests. The greatest reason to medicate comes down to their lack of social graces. Not incompetence and not knowing any better.
Well America is a global player. She follows an ideology, propagates it by every mean, protects its interest, plant agents. She saw a threat in the form if soviet union, she helped dismantle it. She is a true bully, only way to stand upto her is by implementing an alternative ideology, comprehensively. Unfortunately our intelligentsia have bought into the same narrative, that only system that brings progression is democracy and capitalism.
Its time we implement the islamic ideology completely via the khilafah state. Only then we,ll be focusing on leading the world from darkness ( american hegemony) to light ( islam).
Muslim terrorists and their apologists talk about how human rights are being trampled upon by these horrible western nations while not worrying about the human rights of their victims (just one instance I can give dozens e.g. women and children killed in Syria). We read once again that US's drones killing innocents but you know that the terrorists always live among civilians whether in Pakistan or in Spain. By not ever mentioning this fact you are part of the propaganda aimed at promoting hatred of western nations. Therefore we find that Mulims instead of changing their ways only dream of uniting to form a truly Islamic nation. The Muslim men in UK jail who may be exdited to US to face the music have no defence because they were running a jihadist webite aimed at creating mayhem in the western world. Their supporters say that by trying them would only encourage jihadists and extremists. No one in Muslim world ever says enough is enough let us sit down and see what is wrong with the way we have been operating. But no they will attack and try make the whole world Muslim. Encourage young Muslims to be constructive and not destructive.
Excellent piece, good to see the best ones from Express Tribune's old guard back. US policy being so heavy-handed wouldn't be so awful if it weren't so unthinking along with it. Hope to see more from author.
@True Muslim Paki
Please read the comments from @Sunil. He has come up with an idea that can help you get what you wish for (i.e. one country for all the muslims of the world).
Excellent article. The US & west dont care about oppression carried against Muslims in Kashmir, Palestine, china or even in Chechnya. Unless all Muslim countries unite & form a truly Islamic country, nothing's going to change.
What's the problem? if UK laws are too sissy to punish would-be-jihadists, then they better be extradited to countries that donot pay so much attention to niceties. Serves them right! Lock them up and trow away the key.
Under all circumstances, i will trust the UK courts rather than the USA courts. Specially for the UK citizens. Cameron has backtracked on so many things. This is just one of them.
Which ever way you look at it 'Might is always right'. Unless it gets temporarily overcome by a fit of morals and then the world stands gaping in astonishment.
Not sure about the catchy and lame title ?
Saleha, I suggest that you first write about those thousands that have been picked up and disappeared in this land of pure, thousands more that have been blown to pieces by our strategic assets and thousands more that hundreds more that have been summarily executed.
Then go around taking an honest assessment of how rampant this practice is in majority of the "Muslim dominated" countries.
Once you have done that, then drink a glass of cold water and take a few deep breaths before fuming at US.
Off all the nations globally, the US with all its might and power (nboth internally and externally) chooses to yield it with care and diligence.
Imagine if that much power was given to someone like Pakistanis or Saudis and how messy the world might be..!!
Lets just be reasonable, fair and equitable...
Haris
All this respect for human rights is wonderful when the subjects are fellow muslims - somehow one doesn't hear the same level of anguish when non-muslims are threatened, kidnapped or killed. Further, the moderate muslim community's reaction seems to swing somewhere between handling these extremists with kid gloves to handling them like kids - and always absolving themselves of responsibility by stating that 'this is not Islam'; the fact is, whether you like it or not, that this is an increasingly visible face of Islam, and you need to find a solution WITHIN Islam that becomes the accepted, nay unainimous narrative to usher in lasting change. The US and UK are not in the business of kidnapping infidels and holding them for some ulterior motive - your co-religionists are. Address the root cause yourselves instead of waiting for the world to become perfect before you fix your problems - or someone else will step in to fix it for you.
Let UK send them to Pakistan. They will be released by Courts for lack of evidence and hailed as heroes. These 'qaum ka beta' will be Idolized by youth and hundreds of Facebook pages would be dedicated to their greatness. They would be invited on DPC rallies, 28 May nuclear bomb testing day; and on Amir Liaqat Husain’s show.
Ps: every year hundreds of Pakistanis die in police custody from torture, but they are poor people and the issue is not sexy enough to be discussed in articles
sometimes it feel like west really wants that we hate them,they even have rights for animals but dnt have for muslims,if a group of militant started it,then they are responsible for all mess up,we muslim condmn all wrong doings no matter from west or militant
"They are quick to strike us with drones, which reportedly kill more innocent people than militants, which some may say is a cure, but what about tackling and preventing terrorism in other arenas? What about giving these men their due rights by allowing them to be tried in the UK, rather than shipping them off to the US?"
Strike "us" with drones? Who is this us that you consider a part of? The pashtun elders who opposed Al-Qaeda and who have been eliminated by the orders of the deep state never considered themselves as part of that us. Most of the pashtuns who want to rid of the arabs, chechans, uzbeks creating havoc in FATA are thankful for the Drones. Try asking the pashtuns as other pastuns have done already. So you sitting in the comfort of London is part of that "us"? That is beyond disgusting.
"Reportedly"? Reported by whom? The pashtuns on the ground claim that they are remarkably effective and kill very few "innocent" people. The are an incredibly precise weapon that take out the Jihadis. Why don't you ask Mohammad Zaki and Farhat Taj, both Pashtuns and both with roots in FATA and see what they think of your "reportedly".
Nope: we believe terrorism can only be tackled with more violence and hatred.More militarism ,more drones,more killings. If in the process any laws are broken and few human rights violated,never mind ,It's all in a good cause. After all they started it.