Predictably, the Ghairat Brigades have jumped right down his throat just as they did when he advocated peace and amity between Pakistan and India at the South Asian Free Media Association’s (SAFMA) convention in Lahore in August last year. I might add that, because it talks sense, SAFMA is the pet hate of the ‘Ghairat’ Brigade’s (aka the Deep State) propagandists, its guiding lights such as Zaid ‘Ghazwa-i-Hind’ Hamid asking for its members to be lynched by the judiciary, no less. I ask you.
Let us accept that it is a cruel State, and one without an ounce of human feeling, that would expose its fine young men to the kind of trials that India and Pakistan have exposed theirs to for 20 years now. And this despite the deleterious effect seen on many of those soldiers who were lucky enough to get out of that horrible experience alive. From toes and feet and fingers and hands lost to frostbite, to psychological problems that disrupt their professional and family lives, veterans live the never-ending nightmare of Siachen day in and day out.
It is a criminally irresponsible State that would spend the kind of monies needed for equipping and maintaining thousands of soldiers in the environment found at the glacier instead of using the funds for the uplift of their teeming poor. It is estimated that India spends one million a day for its adventure in Siachen, and while actual figures for Pakistan are not available they could not be far behind India’s.
However these are matters that can be put right by, say, withdrawing from Siachen. What we haven’t even discussed yet is the damage to the environment that human beings and their detritus can do to the area which is the main source of water, critical principally to Pakistan. This damage is more long-lasting and was also referred to by Mr Sharif when he advocated withdrawal. Well, much kudos to him with the fervent prayer that the governments of India and Pakistan have the good sense to immediately open talks on all outstanding issues, Siachen particularly.
However, while we do know that there are hidebound bureaucrats and baboos, both civilian and military on both sides who will pull objections to any talks of peace out of their hats, it is time that the elected governments take the initiative and do the right thing. I might add that whilst many might think that COAS Kayani’s call for an understanding on Siachen is over-stepping his authority, I personally welcome what he said. Is this a sign that the army brass is also now thinking with an open mind? I sincerely hope so.
And now a little on my recent article in this paper on the army’s proposed FM 96 (‘Monkey business’ April 18, 2011). Of 52 comments, 33 are supportive of my stand, 15 against, and 4 neither here nor there. Some of the 15 against read just like the usual defence of the Deep State with details that would not be available to lay readers, and obviously contrived bad spellings to make one believe that they are genuine. How many times must one say to these propagandists: ‘Been there done that’?!
Anyway, for those who want to equate FM 96 with the American forces radio let me quote from the website of the American Forces Radio and Television Service:
(Quote): Purpose/Mission: AFRTS is the American Forces Radio and Television Service, also known as the Armed Forces Radio and Television Service. It is part of the Department of Defense, and is headquartered at Fort George Meade Maryland. The AFRTS mission is to communicate Department of Defense policies, priorities, programs, goals and initiatives. AFRTS provides stateside radio and television programming, “a touch of home,” to US service men and women, DoD civilians, and their families serving outside the continental United States.
Vision: The AFRTS vision is to provide multi-channel broadcast quality radio and television services and expanded internal information products to all DoD members and their families stationed overseas, on contingency operations, and onboard Navy ships around the world.
Heritage: Since 1942, when the War Department formally created the Armed Forces Radio Service, thousands of people in the US entertainment industry and the Department of Defense have been associated with AFRTS. They represent the “AFRTS family”...all sharing a relentless dedication to support the morale of US troops overseas. Their legacy is honoured and remembered here.
Wherever our service women and men and their families have been stationed overseas over the years, AFRTS has been there to ease their burden and, if only for a brief moment, bring them home. (Unquote).
Now what is not clear or ambiguous in the Purpose/Mission and Vision of the AFRTS? As is stated clearly, this service is principally meant for US troops and DoD personnel posted abroad! It does not have any news content save what is produced by other stateside media and which is re-run on AFRTS channels. There are no editorial rights, no politics.
I have myself been an aficionado of the AFRTS radio service when I was in Japan in the late 70s, which broadcast only music and news to do directly with service personnel. How I recall the disc jockey Wolfman Jack with his gravelly voice and the great music he played!
Not only is there no comparison with what AFRTS is and what FM-96 hopes to be, we must compare the track record of the American forces brass and our own. Not once has there been a military coup d’état in the United States. Go figure. And kill FM-96 now, if not sooner.
Published in The Express Tribune, April 20th, 2012.
COMMENTS (70)
Comments are moderated and generally will be posted if they are on-topic and not abusive.
For more information, please see our Comments FAQ
@Jalib: A PhD in cell biology or PhD in star gazing does not mean that they have better understanding of sociology and politics. This is misunderstanding that many people have. sorry for that. There are many people who are academically bright but ...... in other areas.
All Pakistani politicians when out of power talk sense.
@Lala Gee: No sir, I'm a bit intellectually challenged. But I have no doubts about high intellectual capabilities of our western neighbours. What I doubt is their intellectual honesty. Had there been a trace of honesty and humanity, world would have been a much peaceful place and kashmiris would not have lost tens of thousands of lives and peace of mind. To begin with, you would have noticed, without my pointing, that the arguing over uninhabited Siachen exposes the fact that for Pakistan, the whole Kashmir issue is just a real estate issue.
Mr Kamran Shafi withdraw from Siachen's means jis ki lathi us ki bhens as Pakistani i wd like to say that its a very bad idea we will never ever let to do this until we die and everyone should understand who those like this happening pakistani ppl will fight with these elements always.
Most of the Pakistanis do not even know the strategic significance of Siachen Glacier and why India advanced into it towards Pakistan controlled territory in 1983. The region is a triangle between Pakistan, China and India. If India can advance further, it can come next to the Chinese regions and block Pakistan's access to China and also gain strategic control over regions of Gilgit and Baltistan and blocking the strategic Karakorum highway.
Nations defend their territories, even if they seem insignificant. These seemingly small regions, play a great strategic role in shaping the destiny of the nations.
@let there be peace:
"so now you want plebiscite in Siachen? last I heard, there were no human beings living in Siachen except Indian soldiers. So who is going to vote for Pakistan? Djinns?"
What I said was very clear and I am sure you knew what I meant - good pun though. Don't make me doubt your intellectual availabilities by saying no.
@Zalim Singh:
"This kind of criminal activity has been going on for the last 1600 years in the Arabic society- where people attack other faiths and convert , loot, take prisnoirs/slaves etc. Arabia became a very under developed region by 1900s. What is new here?"
I am amazed at the knowledge, fact twisting, and arrogance (derive out of self proclaimed righteousness) of our Indian friends. It looks like they are brain-washed since childhood and find it difficult to accept the facts when presented to them.
Everybody knows that the ideals and values were very different 1600 years ago, and comparing them with the modern value-system is a plain intellectual dishonesty. When blaming Arabs, they conveniently forget the other warriors like Alexander The Great, Vikings, and Genghis Khan. Similarly they also forget the British, French, Spanish, and the other European nations enslaving the natives of their occupied territories. How can they forget their friend USA whose cruelty with slaves, even in modern times, is known to all. But Indians will always blame Arab Muslims with hatred for such acts, and officially keep pretending to be their friends.
Regarding their development, you only need to compare how many Arabs are working in India and how many millions of Indians are just doing their cleaning jobs. Hope this will clear some misconceptions.
@Sapan Kapoor:
"Indian army will withdraw only after Pakistan authenticated the current positions and marked them on map, making it an International Border."
For answer see this comment.
"India doesn’t have any intention in taking an inch of Pakistan’s land and at the same time we won’t even cede an inch of our territory. If Pakistan is ready to authenticate current troop positions, I think we can resolve this dispute in no time."
The truth is the whole area is a disputed territory waiting a plebiscite to be held under UNO. Moreover, this territory was never under your control until 1984 when you took advantage of the absence of Pakistani Army and occupied it.
@anaismalik: agree with u.
@Santosh KC:
"do you think any thinking Indian civil or military leader will support the withdrawal of Indian troops from Siachen without Pakistan signing on the AGPL positions?"
I have only two objections:
a) The Indian army's current positions on Siachen are in straightforward violation of the Simla Accord. b) Agreeing to those AGPL positions is equivalent to legitimizing the Indian illegal occupation.
The only fair solution to the problem is to restore the pre 1984 position as per Simla Accord. Both the armies must go back to their previous positions and declare the Siachen glacier as demilitarized zone open only for mountaineering expeditions from both countries. Any other solution is not acceptable to the Pakistani nation.
@ashok:
"Time has come for Pakistan to change the mindset and treat India as elder brother and India to treat Pakistan as younger but rebellion brother who needs to be changed with tough “love”."
I think you also need to change your mindset and get rid of the arrogant attitude - which is the real hindrance in solving any disputes so far - and stop trying to be elder brother. Issues between two sovereign nations, of similar military might, could only be settled based on principles and not on hegemony and threats.
Nawaz Sharif is asking Pak to withdraw unilaterally.Pakistan is only defending in Siachen.India is the offender.Since India was the one that violated Siachen in the first place,its only fair to ask India to remove its forces first from there then Pakistan will follow or both countries should do so simultaneously.Why urging Pakistan to remove unilaterally??? How dumb do u think Pakistan is India ?
The only problem is that Nawaz sharif is urging Pak to withdraw unilaterally from Siachen.Any Patriotic and sane Pakistani will have a problem with that. Pakistan is only defending in Siachen.India is the offender.Since India was the one that violated Siachen in the first place,its only fair to ask India to remove its forces first from there then Pakistan will follow or both countries should do so simultaneously.Why urging Pakistan to remove unilaterally??? How dumb do u think Pakistan is India ? Here are the fact files.In 1948 Siachen was a part of Pakistan.The mounteering teams of foreigners used to take permission from Pakistan to go in Siachen.The maps of America clearly showed Siachen as part of Pakistan.What more proof India wants ? India had been lying that Siachen was a "No mans Land".Indira Gandhi broke Pakistan in 1971 with Agartala conspiracy and mukti bahini.She also moved her forces in Siachen with ulterior motives for Maha Bharat.Also to cut a route to Afghanistan from there and to hinder our access to China.SAFMA IS DOING PROPAGANDA THAT PAKISTAN SHOULD UNILATERALLY CALL BACK ITS FORCES FROM SIACHEN.WHILE THE INDIAN DAILIES ARE STRONGLY URGING AND WRITING ON THE STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE OF INDIA IN SIACHEN FOR MAHA BHARAT.IF ONLY SAFMA PAK CHAPTER WAS AS PATRIOTIC AS THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN INDIA.PEACE.Anais Malik (US)
@Faria
1. They don’t know that India came to Siachen to stop construction of Karakuram Highway.
The Karakoram Highway was completed in 1978. If you believe the Pakistan Posts.
In 2003, the Silver Jubilee celebrations (1978-2003) of the construction of the road were held both in Pakistan and China. Pakistan Post issued a Re. 2 special commemorative stamp on the occasion.
http://www.pakistanpaedia.com/landmarks/kkh/kkh.htm
India came to Siachen in 1984, much after the CONSTRUCTION was over.Stating the facts once in a while is good for your health.
@Jamshed: Jamshed, I totally agree with you. It is a totally irresponsible statement as seen from the Indian point of view. Just imagine if Pakistan withdrew, then even India may have to withdraw without showing any plausible gain for all its efforts other wise India would internationally get a bad name. Therefore, in the interest of India, NS's statement was preposterous. He cant take away the Indian excuse to continue staying there. After all if armies do not come to each others aid then who will. So the Indian army must be sitting with their fingers crossed and hoping that all this debate in the Pakistani media does not influence the pakistani army and the Pakistani army makes its decision keeping the interest of both the the armies in mind. Hopefully the pakistani army, will not get mushy and continue to act macho and stay there. In this venture the support of the people is required and Jamshed I support you in this. We need more vocal supporters for the cause of the Pakistani army and the Indian army from the Pakistani side in this debate. We cant all get wet in the pants just because a few soldiers have lost their lives.
@observer: Pakistan did not, but its india which invaded and tried to occupy Kashmir , which is still fighting against this terrorist country india.
I m amazed at wisdom of our national leaders,anchor persons,writers and so called experts on TV Channels about their knowledge about Pakistan and their patriotism. 1. They don't know that India came to Siachen to stop construction of Karakuram Highway. Pakistan Army went to defend their territory. Nad now unilateral withdraw by Pakistan will give access to India to not only Karakuram Highway but Areas of Gilgit Baltistan and India can severe our ground link with China.....which was base of Indian operation in Siachen..... 2. They also forget the fact that next wars will be for water and Sicahen Glacier is biggest source of Water for Pakistan. India which is already constructing dams in Kashmir to capture and control all water of Pakistan. Now they want that Pakistan Army should withdraw so that India gets complete control of all water of Pakistan and blackmail us. 3. They are just pleasing their masters in Washington and nothing else. They are the ones who appointed and ignored their "Indus Water Commiissioner" who sold his national interest to INDIA and did not object to projects like kishan ganga etc and than ran away form Pakistan..... 4. I request all Pakistanis to open ur eyes and harden ur hearts and minds against this black poisonous propaganda...
@Moaz
Dear Brothers and sisters on both sides of the border, to all the misinformed, ill informed and oblivious, I read someone commenting on the trust deficit from Pakistan sides, let me just recap the history for them,
Why do you insist on lying to people you call 'brothers and sisters'.
Honest history will tell you that Hyderabad was not assimilated till September,1948. The Nizam by then understood that his position was untenable.Incidentally the Nizam headed for Australia instead of hanging around in Pakistan.
May be, had Pakistan not invaded Kashmir in October 1947 itself, Kashmir would have resolved itself differently.
Please do not try to justify Kashmir with Hyderabad. And please also tell your 'brothers and sisters' about who decided to use 'force' to achieve its goals first.
Pakistan has every right to defend its territory whether in mountains of snow or the depths pf sea, since india is blocking Pakistan's water from north already so Pakistanis should not take any chance by withdrawing from Siachen. In 1983 india inavaded Pakistan's Siachen region just like it did in occupying Paksitan's kashmir.
Nawaz Sharif has no foresightedness that is why he is now hated by all patriots just like other politicians. And his careless and ill-informed remarks on Siachen does not make any sense.
oh Mr! if v withdraw our forces, u know what will happen????? there is no guarantee about Indins...
And please, do not just take the avalanche incident as a tragedy. Look at the cause they died for!
Sir, kindly rethink your policy. The Pakistani and Indian armies aren't stupid to be spending billions of dollars on a glacier for about 30 years. And lets not blame Pakistan here for anything, since it was India who invaded Siachen in 1984, and since then India has never changed its position. Forget the army, just look at the politicians! Has any Indian politician even talked about withdrawal from Siachen? If we withdraw and the Indians move any further in Siachen, they can capture all of the glacier and the saltoro ridge If that happens (naozubillah) India can get hold of Karakorum highway (our land route to China) and K2. Not only this, but India will also get easy surveillance and watch over our Giltgit Baltistan region. In this situation, muttering about peace and all would be naive. Unless of course, both the forces withdraw 100% BILATERALLY (a policy that we fail to see from the Indians).
between india and Pakistan there is no border but blunder that should not have been created
@Ahmed Ali very valid point u raised... this double standard of the writers make them doubtful... I don't know y some writers don't talk about each important point about the issue they write...
Mr Shafi! As usual, your article is full of logical fallacies without any good argument. You have not mentioned that India captured siachin by force in 1983 without any solid reason. Everyday India pours hundreds of gallons of kerosene oil in the glacier to trigger artificial floods in Pakistan. Why this double-standard and fact-selection approach shown from you in all your articles? In short, this article was an epic fail as your articles always are!!
Over two decades ago , I commanded an Artillery Brigade in Ladakh (J&K) Sector which included Siachen and Kargil . We used to call Siachen a 'White Hell' , which indeed it was and still is , though facilities may have improved by now. I know what it means to be and live there . Gyari , where the avalanche struck (on 07 April) was a prominent location across the Actual Ground Position Line (AGPL) . My heartfelt condolences to the kins and comrades of victims of the avalanche tragedy . May the souls of the victims rest in peace and may the God Almighty give fortitude to their near and dear ones to bear this unbearable loss . Human nature being what it is , 'Siachens' would continue to happen , how so illogical they may look . 'De-militarisation' is an ideal solution BUT the 'remedy' MUST NOT turn out to be be 'worse than the malady' , given the VAST 'Trust Deficit' between the two countries . Any false move by either side , may lead to bigger conflagration with unintended and utmost tragic consequences . Many Confidence Building Measures (CBMs) have been tried and they have had their positive effect ; that's why we are talking 'trade' now . More CBMs are needed before de- militarisation can take place and let the 'Trade' be the biggest of them , others being , very easy visa regime , study by students in either country , exchange of visits of artists , sports persons ,professionals and even the retired soldiers , etc . After some years , when we reach a state of Mutual Assured Dependence (Not the other kind of MAD) leading to 'co prosperity' and start thinking like the Europeans did, before they formed the European Union , we can de- militarise Siachen . The Europeans fought for hundreds of years killing millions of their youth , and today they live like and extended family . IF they can achieve this miracle , why can't we , who have much more in common than they ever had? . When we render the 'Borders Irrelevant' (as some Statesman put it ), perhaps then all our problems can be REASONABLY resolved . It is a great 'Challenge' to the 'statesmanship' of both the countries to make the dawn of that day possible .
When will that day dawn , only God knows ?.
the problems of Pakistan can never be solved by our leader well as imran khan. just we have to take action on leaders to solve the problems of Pakistan ...........
@Mustafa Kamal: Resolving Siachen is one thing and unilaterally vacating Siachen without any agreement with India is another. With remarks from such high level as army chief, do you see the same enthusiasm on Indian side. (FYI, India spending and losses are more than Pakistan)
Dear Brothers and sisters on both sides of the border, to all the misinformed, ill informed and oblivious, I read someone commenting on the trust deficit from Pakistan sides, let me just recap the history for them, after partition Pakistan was not given its due share of part in resources, apparently Kashmir belonged to India because the ruler of Kashmir wanted to accede to India but same was not the case with Hyderabad Deccan because it was a hindu majority state and the ruler of Hyderabad wanted to accede to Pakistan, so India captured Hyderabad, and then what happened of the issue of Jundagarh, which again was captured by India. Reflect upon the history which is a mystery brothers. I love my country and I love my Army, but that doesnt mean I support what ill things they do but they are not all that bad. Dear Mr. Shafi, a big part of warfare is psychological, a country needs support from its people, if another country can support its army with a radio station, why cant Pakistan army ? Now you would come up with the old excuse of we are a poor country and what not, agreed, and also agreed that we are not able to support our program to the extent, but let me remind you, USA is the most indebted country in the whole world, so that means we are still better off then them, but the point I want to raise here is that please take a line in your columns which is supportive of your countries interests, I am supportive of the troops withdrawal from Siachen, only if India is withdrawing them at the same time as well, and yes Mr. Shafi also write a column about how India is to not build dams under the Indus Basin treaty or whatever part of it they believe is left!
Once again good work Mr. Shafi. We must support all voices that talk of normalization relationship with all our neighbors and most importantly, bringing to close this madness called Siachen front. I also believe that all political spectrum agrees with this need of demilitarization of Siachen. However, what Nawaz Sharif said has been minsconstrued by many. Majority, including myself, believed Nawaz Sharif said something along the lines of unilateral retreat and thus caused quite an uproar. I am gladly corrected that this is not what he said. I think COAS statement in this regard was very balanced. After emphasizing the need to retreat from Siachen, he stressed that we all should not forget that it is India because of whom we see military deployment on these glaciers. No matter how much we would want to retreat, I do not think we can do that unless India agrees to go back to pre 1984 positions. Now I hope that some sense prevails in New Delhi.
Many Pakistanis does not even know Pak Army never made it to Siachen. There were stopped at Saltoro Kangri ranges that leads to Siachen. So technically if Pakistanis are not present on Siachen, there is no weight in statement Pak army should withdraw from Siachen. Simple. Let those 130 soldiers rest in peace and new boots walk over them.
Symptoms of Kamran Shafi are similar to John Nash from 'Beautiful Mind' although it is next to impossible Shafi would ever be considered for Nobel Prize. Shafi genuinely believes he is important enough and nuisiance enough to be followed by spies. He somehow believes he is thwarting the narrative of deep state. I bet some of Shafi friends throw stones at glass windows of his house or attempt mock calls from unkown numbers just to further his paranoia.
@ Shafi sir
It is a criminally irresponsible State that would spend the kind of monies needed for equipping and maintaining thousands of soldiers in the environment found at the glacier instead of using the funds for the uplift of their teeming poor.
This kind of criminal activity has been going on for the last 1600 years in the Arabic society- where people attack other faiths and convert , loot, take prisnoirs/slaves etc. Arabia became a very under developed region by 1900s. What is new here?
@Santosh KC: It's really amusing how Indians here pose to be the epitomy of righteousness. You constantly remind us of how you cannot trust the Pakistanis and that India has no desire whatsoever to take any part of Pakistan. Sir, in the same way i can also say that Pakistan has no desire to take an inch of India's land and if you remind me of Pakistan's so called shenanigans of Kargil i can point out India's transgressions in form of East Pakistan, so stop your holier than thou rant and stop acting like you are pure as a driven slush. Have the sense to read genuine history and and guts to accept your own mistakes. Demonizing Pakistan blindly is not going to help you. If we Pakistanis criticise our own countrymen, be it politicians or army, we do it for the betterment of our own country not because we have to prove anything to you. If you are really sincere in Pakistan's well being then stop commenting on our newspapers because even if Pakistanis want to support people like Kamran Shafi, they don't do it when Indians like you comment here and star with your meaningless rhetoric on how India and Indians can do no wrong.
If rulers and policy makers start thinking, almost all wars will be considered stupid and useless.
Shafi Sahib, what you write is absolutely spot on, however the main hurdle is the trust deficit between the two countries which widened after Kargil adventure by Pakistan. Until AGLC is recognised as well as accepted by Pakistan and any violation of the same by either country be treated as declaration of war on the other, the demilitarisation of Siachen cannot not become a reality. Keep smiling till then, as it suits your personality.
OOPS. Defending the last piece again today. I think the itch is strong. BTW I have nothing to do with deep state as I live in the states. :) Happy regurgitation buddy.
@Jalib, "that people like myself and many other highly intelligent people " Your statements sounds like bragging and if you read the article carefully and provide point by point rebuttal to this article ,your comments will be meaningful .
We the people of Kashmir want immediate withdrawal of Pakistan and Indian forces from all part of Kashmir including Siachen.
i am positively hopeful that our political and miltary leadership will declare this brutal harsh weather area as no man land. much of credit goes to nawaz sharif for comenting so boldly on siachin issue. most importantly out army chief endorsed this i dont know how this happed, may be they have realised that with out strong economey ary cant defend borders. any how good move from all corner.lets start compaign on media in both side pak and india and urges the miltary to vacate these areas and stop stupid fighting with harsh weather , the place where even animals cant survives.
A great Op Ed, fit to be included in ET. Thanks for that. When PPP is in opposition they talk even better than Sharif and other leaders. The problem is when they are in the govt they do not go against the wishes of the deep state. In particular PPP has to be extra cautious as it is always targeted by mullah/military/judiciary alliance. NS had PM twice what stopped him from pulling out of Siachen? Only fools can compare Pak army's radio stations with the richest and most powerful country of the world. While everything US is evil for the rightwing however, when it suits them they want to follow the US! Let us follow the countries with the economies equal to Pakistan and how much do they spend on their public and how little they waste in nuclear weapons, F16’s and Siachen, to name a few. I agree with you, it is the worst crime to starve people and deprive them of clean water and waste hundreds of millions on the glaciers.
I agree India is criminally negligent to 600 million Indians.
Good on Mr Shariff. He has shown courage and conviction in a lot of statements regarding Army, ISI andf our foreign policy. There is a light at the end of tunnel and it surely seems democratic government as corrupt as it may be will eventually take courageous steps in the right direction for the people of this region. History will remember Mr Shariff for such a bold statement on such a sensitive yet hopeless issue. Kamran, you and people like you make us overseas Pakistani believe there is still hope in our beloved country. There is some common sense still left in our people and Inshallah truth will prevail. Good Luck !! you make us all proud.
Indian arguments against demilitarization have been succinctly summarized in Rediff news http://www.rediff.com/news/column/why-india-cannot-afford-to-give-up-siachen/20120413.htm. Even-though the military is under tight civilian control in India, the political establishment and government differs to the military establishment expertise in tactical and strategic considerations . Prime example is of late PM Ms Indira Gandhi who differed to Marshal Maneckshaw regarding the timing and tactics in 1971 Indo -Pak war once a political decision is taken . Wiki leaks cable clearly show that even-though the Govt establishment under Manmohan Singh wanted in principal to withdraw from Siachen the decision was reversed after input from Indian military in 2006 .http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=96303
@Mustafa Kamal What make it a park, or maybe gift it to India since they always think the best for us. Nawaz doesn't have an iota of an idea on how to craft proper foriegn policy besides running to the US for help. Shame on you for being one of the millions of sheeple.
God bless Nawaz Sharif.
Yes, both the countries need to pull out of this useless, futile battle ground, but the problem was initiated by the Indians when they came with guns and captured the area. Leading to the breakage of trust, Pakistan had to do the same. But I do agree that this problem should be resolved as amicably as possible as it is absolutely crap to fight over it where you can't even have grass. Spend that money on education and other developmental projects. You can't have life there why fight over it?
But Nawaz Shareef took a step backward when he said "Kayani seconds my Siachen withdrawal stance". This he should have not spoken, Alas!....Source (http://tribune.com.pk/story/367051/kayani-seconds-my-siachen-withdrawal-stance-nawaz-sharif/)
Mickey,
I would hate to think of the mental state of those who were chosen to serve there. It must be worse than a full-scale warwith all its horrible imaginings.
Mr. Shafi,
Regarding your vain and self-obsessed comments about the comments from your last piece, don't you get that most sane people don't like to respond to your vitriolic rhetoric. Your writing is so un-nuanced and unintellectual, that people like myself and many other highly intelligent people I have a privilege of knowing don't ever bother responding, and actually more often than not don't even bother reading what you've written.
You need to stop spewing such venom and rationally discuss the points you make, no matter what they may be. I hope you self-reflect sir, because you seriously need to. I wish you the best.
An ET reader from NYit will also do pakistan a lot of good to withdraw its claim on Kashmir and then all will be hunky dory
what will you do if india marches on to skardu please explain
Hats off to Kamran Shafi! Although, a critic of Nawaz Sherif, I am an advocate of giving credit where credit it due. Out of all our power hungry politicians running for election right now, it was indeed only Sherif who's statement supported the views of the masses.
As far as FM 96 goes, I partially agree in your analysis. No, I am not of the 'outreach' by any means. I whole-heartedly agree that there mustn't be an 'social harmonization' attempt by the army, their purpose is not to do so, but rather is one of defence of our soil. Nonetheless, the lack of attention that has been given to the story is something that raises bigger questions in my eyes and perhaps deserves greater investigation.
First of All no one have problem with the statement that both countries should withdraw forces from Siachen .. Problem is when Nawaz Sharif Said that Pakistan should be the first one to withdraw .. it is Totally irresponsible statement from a leader of second largest party ...
@Kamran Sir, Indian army will withdraw only after Pakistan authenticated the current positions and marked them on map, making it an International Border. India doesn't have any intention in taking an inch of Pakistan's land and at the same time we won't even cede an inch of our territory. If Pakistan is ready to authenticate current troop positions, I think we can resolve this dispute in no time. However, if you are expecting us to withdraw before it's done then I afraid it won't happen. The ball is in the Pakistan's court. Is Pakistan ready to authenticate current troop positions and turn it into international border?
@Mustafa Kamal: I don't think PTI opposed pull-out from Siachen. All IK said is that there is no question that militarization of Siachen on both sides is counter-productive because of the human suffering involved as well as environmental costs. So they should pull out, but it should be a coordinated bilateral move.
Mr. Shafi: I agree with much of your sensible propositions. But it is perplexing to me that every Pakistani analyst who so ardently argues for withdrawal from Siachen, wants it to happen without acknowledging the AGPL.
Given the history of Pakistani Army shenanigans that you yourself are such a fine and vocal exponent, do you think any thinking Indian civil or military leader will support the withdrawal of Indian troops from Siachen without Pakistan signing on the AGPL positions?
I can understand your passion and desire to prevent loss of human life for Pakistani and Indian soldiers given the death of 140 of your fellow countrymen. I as an Indian, care as much if not more for the life of our soldiers - after all, I have extended family members who have served in Siachen, Kashmir and in the Northeast.
But I also know without a doubt as do every one of my family members who have served in the army, that while a tour of duty in Siachen extracts its toll in morale and blood, it also saves more lives. 527 of my countrymen died in Kargil, which was a very limited war. 1383 died in 1962 defending us against the Chinese. Leaving the northern glacier unguarded and allowing Pakistan access to the Karakoram Pass has the potential to inflict a much higher toll in Indian lives in case of a larger conflict. Given the state of Pakistan and the lack of control over your army, this is not a risk any sane Indian will accept.
In summary, if you are not willing to make an articulate and passionate argument in favor of Pakistan's acceptance of the AGPL positions, you should prefer yourself for more weeping until the tears run dry. Mine already have.
FM 96 radio and next FM 69 TV broadcast by the Pakistan army.
Then most of the private and government commercial advertisements channeled thru these new army ventures with virtually no competition.
This is another way of adding billions of rupees in army's kitty at the the cost of private business community.
Time has come for Pakistan to change the mindset and treat India as elder brother and India to treat Pakistan as younger but rebellion brother who needs to be changed with tough "love".
NS had learned a lot from past.good bless him.
Mr. Sharif's recommendation is, indeed, commendable as is Gen. Kayani's supportive comment. The monies saved from Siachin can help transform the combined health care and education of of AJK and G-B so the earlier the two sides resolve the issue the better.
If neither side intends to make an offensive move, the winner is obvious and predictable. Since it's already clear they're willing to make soldiers sit there and if the weather aspect was an issue to the one making the decision it would have come up before now. It's whoever has more money. If Pakistan continues to want to sit there, they're going to come out worse and have even less to show for it. After that happens everyone will be referencing this recent disaster, pointing fingers, causing big shows of drama and repetitively saying "you should have left at that point." Like it's a revelation and it'll probably even be treated as one by the sheep. Though the best part will be that the ones doing it will probably be the same ones who were against the idea in the first place.
Unconditional applause for Mr Nawaz Sharif for his courageous and correct statement.
As usual fantastic article!
Shame on PPP, PTI and other parties for opposing this gesture of Mr. Sharif. !!!
Nawaz Sharif has much realistic approaches to the issues these days. He has a vision. Thumbs Up Mr. Shareef!!!